General

SIG’s P227 High Capacity .45

Black SIG P227 barrel pointed left on white background

The SIG P series has enjoyed an unrivaled reputation for quality, accuracy and reliability for over 40 years. SIG’s service pistol line has grown considerably since German police trials produced a demand for a reliable, accurate handgun with a simple manual of arms.

Black SIG P227 barrel pointed left on white background
The SIG P227 is a great handgun with much to recommend.

The SIG P220 became a world-class handgun. Highly influential, the 9mm SIG P220 was eventually offered in .38 ACP Super and .45 ACP. The P220 was developed in the high-capacity SIG P226 9mm for the United States Military Trials. The compact P225 single-column 9mm and high-capacity P228 compact were also developed.

Today, there are also polymer frame handguns in the SIG product line. The newest SIG, the P227 handgun, is an interesting development predicted to be one of the most successful SIG pistols yet. For those familiar with the SIG line, the new high capacity .45 is more similar, in my opinion, to the P226 than the P220. Rather than a high capacity P220 .45, the pistol is a .45 caliber P226 in appearance and hand fit. On the other hand, the pistol should stand on its own merits.

The P220 was among the first successful double-action first-shot service pistols. The positive firing pin block pioneered by SIG is now universal for those engaging in institutional sales. In short, these are well-respected handguns. The P220 was chambered for the .45 ACP to get sales in America. The .45 ACP is a respected pistol cartridge; there is no other self-loading pistol cartridge with the wound potential of the .45, tet the cartridge is low pressure and exhibits little muzzle signature.

Many police agencies adopted the SIG P226 in 9mm, although today the .45 ACP is more popular than ever. The P220 is a fine handgun, however, some rightly point to the limited magazine capacity. While SIG has introduced a new 8-round magazine to compliment the original 7-round magazine, the GLOCK 21, for example, offers 13 rounds in the magazine. The GLOCK is larger than the P220 and 14 rounds are appealing.

SIG set out to develop a high capacity .45 caliber pistol that retained good hand fit: This is a tall order but one which the company has filled.

Features of the P227

Black SIG P227 barrel pointed right on white background
The SIG is about to be unwrapped.

Like all SIG P series pistols, the P227 features a double-action first-shot trigger. After the first long press of the trigger, the slide recoils and cocks the hammer for subsequent single-action shots. Accuracy potential is high. The double-action trigger press seems to break at just over 10 pounds. The single-action press, according to the RCBS registering trigger pull gauge, is 4.25 pounds. The pistol’s manual of arms is simple—load, decock, holster, draw and fire.

The pistol is simple to field strip and routine maintenance and cleaning are simplified with this system.

  1. Unload the pistol.
  2. Lock the slide to the rear
  3. Turn the takedown lever.
  4. Press the slide release to allow the slide to move forward off the frame.
  5. Lift the recoil spring guide and guide rod are then lifted from the slide.

The P series has been well accepted in law enforcement and military service. However, SIG recognized a market niche in which it was not competitive. There are 1911 high-capacity magazine variants, and the GLOCK 21 has been successful. A double-action first-shot pistol with a high-capacity magazine would be a popular service pistol if it could be kept manageable in size. The P227 is the result of this project.

Black SIG P226 9mm barrel pointed left on white background
This is the SIG P226 9mm. The .45 caliber P227 isn’t much larger.

The P227 is similar in size to the P226 9mm pistol. The P227 is 7.7 inches long and the height is 5.5 inches. The magazine capacity is increased from 8 to 10 rounds giving the P227 a total capacity of 11 rounds. The 10-round magazine allows a good reserve of ammunition without resorting to extreme bulk and width. The backstrap remains comfortable to grasp and the hand fit is good for most shooters. The fit, finish and quality of the handgun seem high. The fit of the slide to the frame is tight.

The pistol should stand on its own merits; however, comparison is inevitable. The P227 is very similar to the P226 in feel. It is little larger across the width of the frame than the P220 .45. The heft is similar to the P226 pistol. An advantage of the P227 is that those presently issuing the 9mm, .40 and .357 SIG pistols—and wishing to upgrade to the .45 ACP—will find the manual of arms identical.

Black SIG P227 barrel pointed left on white background
The P227 is a purposeful handgun and as with all SIGs, this means excellent.

For agencies considering the high capacity .45 caliber handgun, the SIG P227 has better hand fit than the FN or Glock high capacity .45 caliber pistols. It is true that the competing designs have a greater magazine capacity, but 11 rounds seems adequate for this pistol considering that the first few rounds fired from a defensive or service handgun usually end the fight. An accurate first-shot hit is more important than a string of shots. Just the same, a handgun isn’t very powerful, even the .45 ACP, and follow up shots are at times needed. The SIG P227 offers a good reserve, and a fast backup shot.

In order to test the pistol thoroughly, I felt that a mix of practice, defense, service and +P loads should be used. The cost of this pistol is not insignificant, and the SIG P227 should perform with any quality commercial loading. During the initial firing stage, I drew the pistol from a Don Hume belt slide, originally intended for the SIG P 220. The fit was good.

Montana Gold 230-grain JHP

Black SIG P227 10-Round Magazine on white background
The SIG P227 10-round magazine represents the minimum size for the capacity- 10 .45 ACP Pumpkin balls!

I loaded the magazines with a handload comprised of the Montana Gold 230-grain JHP and enough WW 231 powder for 850 fps.

  • The pistol came into the hand quickly
  • The trigger was smooth
  • The sights well designed for rapid combat shooting.
  • The pistol never failed to feed, chamber, fire or eject during five magazines of this loading.
  • At 5, 7 and 10 yards, the combination of a good hand fit and a smooth double-action trigger gave good results.
  • X-ring hits came easily.

Fiocchi 230-grain FMJ

  • This is a traditional ‘hardball’ loading that burns clean and gives good accuracy.
  • Firing offhand at 10 yards, I placed a full magazine into 4 inches as quickly as I could fire and reacquire the sights after recoil.
  • The pistol is controllable, with the recoil feeling straight back.

Liberty Ammunition Frangible

I also fired the last of a number of Liberty Ammunition frangible loads. Despite the light weight and high velocity of these loads, both function and accuracy were good.

Winchester 230-grain PDX

The next load is a credible all-around defense loading with much to recommend.

  • The Winchester 230-grain PDX offers an ideal balance of expansion and penetration.
  • I fired these loads rapid fire at 10 yards with good results.

Speer Gold Dot 200-grain +P

Finally, I loaded two magazines full of a credible +P loading.

  • The Speer Gold Dot 200-grain +P has given good results in a number of .45 ACP handguns.
  • These +P loads gave a harder push, and the SIG proved controllable and accurate.

At normal personal-defense ranges, the SIG P227 gave a good accounting of itself.

25-yard, five-shot group

SIG P229 on bottom and SIG P227 on top on a barrels to the right white background
Compared to the SIG P229 .40 caliber, below, the P227 isn’t an overly large handgun.

Continuing to attempt to give you reports with a good mix of ammunition, I moved to bench rest testing. Taking every advantage, carefully aligning the sights and controlling the trigger, the following results were achieved at a long 25 yards.

Load Group
Fiocchi 230-grain FMJ 2.0 inches
Speer 230-grain Gold Dot 1.75 inches
CORBON 185-grain JHP +P 1.8 inches

During the test period, the SIG’s handling was deemed excellent. In short, this is a reliable, accurate and useful handgun well worth its price.

As a service pistol, home defense pistol or go anywhere do anything handgun, the P227 is a formidable option.

What is your favorite feature of the SIG P227? Will you be adding this to your gun cabinet? Share your thoughts in the comments section.

About the Author:

Wilburn Roberts

When Wilburn Roberts was a young peace officer, he adopted his present pen name at the suggestion of his chief, as some of the brass was leery of what he might write. This was also adopted out of respect for families of both victims and criminals. The pen name is the same and the man remains an outspoken proponent of using enough gun for the job.

He has been on the hit list of a well-known hate group, traveled in a dozen countries and written on many subjects, including investigating hate crimes and adopting the patrol carbine. He graduated second in his class with a degree in Police Science. It took him 20 years to work himself from Lieutenant to Sergeant and he calls it as he sees it.
The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt!'s blog, The Shooter's Log, is to provide information—not opinions—to our customers and the shooting community. We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. The information provided here does not represent the views of Cheaper Than Dirt!

Comments (56)

  1. Excellent pistol! I am a Sig fan anyway but this gun is perfectly balanced and extremely accurate. You may have to save your nickels and dimes for awhile like I did folks but it is well worth the money. I feel more comfortable with a 45 for home defense and the hi-cap is just icing on the cake. This gun will be “under the pillow” from now on.

  2. Purchased my P227 when it first hit the shelves. Although I have owned several handguns most in 45 cal., I have never owned a Sig before this one. For MANY years I had been searching for that perfect (to me) 45acp. Will begin with the fit, from the beginning the Sig felt like putting on my favorite pair of old leather work gloves. Every aspect of the fit was “right”, very comfortable to the hand. The sights are excellent, easy to pickup (got the option with the nitrium night sights), out of the box they were dead on at ten yards. The grips are textured and although not smooth they feel good, just enough texturing to facilitate a good firm grip. After the first 1k of rounds, break in period for me to the gun, I was consistently shooting an average of 2.5″ groups w/o rest, on a good day under 2″. A good hand load and my go to load, is using a Speer 230 gr bullet at .2 gr under the max load in the book, using IMR powder and CCI primers. Don’t know if it’s my fortunate luck or not but I have not had even one single hang fire or ejection problem in over 10k rounds, simply AMAZED when I think on that still.

    It is by far the most simple takedown of any handgun I have ever owned, even simpler than the 1911’s. takedown, clean and back together in under 5 minutes w/o hurrying.

    I found Nirvana and have stopped my search for my “perfect” 45 acp handgun, this will be the first weapon I reach for if ever a need to “bug out” comes

    It is NOT my primary, everyday carry gun only because of its size, but if I am carrying to a place where the threat whether real or perceived is heightened it becomes my primary w/o hesitation.

    My primary carry is a Ruger LC in 380 w/ red dot laser because of two important factors, first – size it fits in my pocket w/o bulging. Second – accuracy at ten yards and less I can consistently put 7 rounds in a 4″ group at close to rapid fire.

    Hope my take and info helps someone.

  3. Wolf,

    Doesn’t sound like your friend was the problem. In my limited experience, limp wrist is more of a problem, generally speaking, for women and not bigger men. You choice for a gun smith sounds like a good one.

  4. No, I haven’t shot the gun, since I know that there’s something not OK with it. My friend is 6.3 tall and about 260 lbs. He’s quite strong with a firm handshake. He had this gun for a while and shot it often. So I don’t think he’s the problem. Tomorrow I’ll go the gunsmith, who’s retired, but still works on guns in his garage. He probably knows what to do. Thanks again for all your tips.

  5. Wolf,

    First, your welcome.
    Second, have you shot the gun? I forgot to mention that maybe the person who passed the gun to you had a bit of a soft wrist. Called “limp wrist”. Need to grasp the 1911 firmly for it to cycle naturally. It has to recoil back against some resistance to eject the spent round before going back into battery and stripping the fresh round. Don’t have to strain or be a muscleman, just need a reasonably firm grip. So get a good quality 230 gr round nose and put a few through it. Might be the entire problem.
    If not, try the gun smith. Look for someone who is experienced (meaning older) who might have knowledge about the 1911’s developmental problems. Some young whippersnapper might not have the old fashioned knowledge.
    1911s were built all over the world and if Spanish, Argentine, Brazilian and so on manufacturers could build reliable military side arms, it is a pretty fool proof design. Tens of thousands made and in a variety of calibers. Generally they work.

  6. I thank the person who responded to my Springfield 1911 ejection problem. I will show the gun to a gunsmith and see what he has to say.

  7. Wolf,

    I am not an expert but have some experience with 1911’s and problems either “stovepiping” where the ejected brass ends up caught in the action, standing straight up, like a stove pipe hat; or, failing to chamber a round after ejecting an empty. Both are easily repairable problems by a competent gunsmith. It can involve lowering and widening the ejection port in the slide or changing/reconfiguring the extractor or by working with the magazine or the feed ramp.
    Some may years ago, there were endemic problems with the venerable .45 ACP. I thought that they were largely things of the past and had all been pretty much engineered out. At one time, in history, 1911s were notoriously unreliable if not modified and tuned. Now, especially the vintage gun you are discussing, those problems should have all been solved. From the Colt Series 70 on, I thought those problems were pretty much history.
    I can’t tell what type problem you might have, but it is one I would investigate with a competent gunsmith before abandoning the gun.
    If you really have no interest in the gun, contact me and I will be happy to take it off your hands and make the problem mine. But, I would certainly try to have it repaired first. Hard to beat a free gun, even if it has a small problem. I suspect it is a fairly easily solved problem, either by Springfield who might warranty the problem and, if not, any older gunsmith should know exactly what to do. It might involve milling the slide, or just changing the extractor.

  8. I never owned a 1911, but a friend of mine gave me his old Springfield .45 ACP 1911 when he bought a new gun. The gun was made in 1988, according to the serial #. My friend told me that the ejection mechanism had some problems and advised me to have it checked and possibly repaired by a gunsmith before shooting it. Does anyone here has any experience with this type gun and ejection problems? I guess I’d like to find out, is it worth to repair, or should I sell it as is, declaring the problem to the buyer, and then buy a new gun?

  9. Snowlepard,

    I, too, have a ParaOrdinance P-13 and it was worked on by the gunsmith Cascade Bluing & Arms. It is the most accurate .45 ACP I own. Out shoots my Wilson used in competition and surprisingly, grip is not too big for my hands.
    But, it now occupies an honored position in my safe and I have taken to carrying daily a Smith 1911SC due to its lighter weight. It shoots almost as good and is definitely lighter to carry all day.
    The Smith has Pachmyer grips meant for a standard 1911 and modified by me to fit the bob tailed Smith. Like the Pachmyer rubberish feeling that gives superior control to me.

  10. hey u guys, yeah SIGS are good, yeah old SWISS Co but sold rights to Germany mfg. and YES its expensive. personally nevr liked them due to to excessive lrg grip for my hand. besides CZ (already 10 rds) how about PARA for those interested in lrg caps ?? EXCELLENT guns! some even less than SIG, KIMBER, and certainly the S&W , etc.?? What I don’t like about the 1911/clone is the backstrap safety. But still love the PARA.

  11. mjh an everyday guy,

    I did not intend or view my comments as critical or bashing anyone. I do not disagree with you about personal preferences, predilections or predispositions. I was intending to state my experience and personal value of a gun that is excellent and not frequently mentioned in gun blogs. I happened to stumble on it by accident and really like it. I wanted to bring it to the attention of others so that they, too, might possibly experience the satisfaction it gives to me.
    I don’t even care of someone wants a knife instead of a gun, or what kind of knife they might wish, or would prefer a hammer, club, axe or any other instrument or instrumentality. It is a partially free country. But, I have spent a good deal of my life assisting others in one way or another and offered my comments to help not bash.

  12. I agree completely! Everybody has preferences in just about anything, including guns. It’s just fun to talk about it, but bashing shouldn’t be included. If somebody wants to carry a full size 50 cal. Desert Eagle, more power to that person (literarily, pun intended).

  13. You’re absolutely right! Lowering the hammer manually onto a live round is potentially asking for trouble. Especially with these short semi-auto hammers. I just turned 66 and wisdom is creeping up on me, but in my younger years I’ve done some pretty nutty stuff, including shooting anti-tank rockets from the hip on a tank training ground. 🙂

  14. wolf,

    I lowered the hammer on a live round for quite a few years on my 1911. I never had an accidental discharge but I think I was just lucky. I now regard it as a stupid thing to do and have stopped, period, end of discussion.

  15. You’re right when you say that lowering the hammer manually onto a live round is not recommended. In fact, it can lead to disaster. I’ve done it once or twice with my Ruger Vaquero 45 (which has a large hammer) but only very carefully, with no one around and the gun pointing towards the soft ground in front of me.

  16. Obviously, you are correct and I was wrong. Not sure how that happened, but what I have thought for quite a few years was just flat wrong.
    I appreciate your straightening me out on that issue. I hate being obviously and incorrectly wrong. I think too many people are entirely too comfortable in that condition and it behooves us to strive for accuracy and correctness when we publish something.
    I goofed and I thank you for the gentle and polite correction fixing my error.

  17. I tried a sig and found the initial double action pull to feel much more than my CZ. My CZ when is decocked the hammer dont go all the way down but to half cock position and it actually feels like a lighter trigger in that position than the full double action. It is not possible to get the full double action with a load on the chamber unless you manually lower your hammer which I will never recommend. My CZ feels safe in the decocked position and the trigger pull feels good even at this half cock position. After that , single action trigger feels pretty much like my 1911. it did not take me long to master the trigger and I highly recommend this gun for anyone that wants a safe ,decocked carry gun. It comes in 9,.40 or .45.

  18. I wish all guns would allow to set the trigger the way we like it, from long draw to hair trigger, just by tightening or loosening a screw. Who knows, perhaps this will be possible some day. Hey, gun makers, do you get this?

  19. Wolf,

    Doggone, Wolf. You wrote something I completely agree with.
    There is one slight exception and it may apply only to me. I just seem to never be able to get used to a long, hard trigger pull, no matter how many rounds I shoot. My groups at the range, in my case, prove my statement. I discovered that on revolvers some years ago. I had a couple Smith & Wessons that had a long pull, and a hard pull, double action. It was doctrine to use the revolver in double action instead of thumbing back the hammer for the better trigger, shorter lock time (seemingly, if not actually). I put hundreds of round through the guns and never got the trigger mastered it in double action; yet, in single action is was just plain excellent. As I say, that may be just me. Of course, nothing ever beat my Colt Diamondback for a revolver trigger.
    I completely agree about the safety factor claim for a long, hard trigger. I have been excited a few times when shooting and never noticed the length of trigger pull or the difficulty of the pull. In the end, isn’t that what it is all about? Not what we do at the range, calm and under ideal conditions — but what we do in an unplanned, surprised, less than ideal situation. I do not see a long, hard trigger as any safer, just possibly less accurate when I pull the muzzle off the target due to the difficult trigger because I am excited, full of adrenalin and in a hurry. In those few moments, unless training is instinctive and not just learned, your natural inclinations take over and all of your learning about trigger control, adjusting your sight picture as you pull through a long and stiff trigger and so forth are out the window.
    Perhaps for those who do not train, or lack experience, it may make a difference. I suspect to a trained and experienced shooter, a difficult trigger is just a hindrance.

  20. I agree, trigger control / trigger action is very important for shooting any gun. However, this is one factor you can adapt to by shooting many rounds with your gun at the range. Once you to know your gun, you also have the feel for its trigger.

    Speaking about triggers, a looooong pull adds to the safety of the gun, they say. I don’t believe that for a second! A long pull is neither useful for precision target shooting, nor for self defense in a life threatening situation. I prefer the cock & lock system of a 1911, or just a regular safety button.

  21. I am one of those shooters who believe trigger control is of supreme importance in accurate shooting and the weight of trigger pull is the single biggest factor or consideration in trigger control. However, length of trigger pull runs a close second.
    I am not one of those shooters who is going to consistently deliver good accuracy with a 10 # trigger pull, especially on a long trigger pull. For me, that would tend to rule out one of the advantages of the Sig.
    For some years I carried a pistol that operated similarly to the Sig 227, with a heavy double action first shot and a much more acceptable single action pull for each successive shot. I considered my first shot a throw away and had little confidence it was going to be effective except perhaps at contact distance.
    After some years of consideration, and when allowed, I went back to the tried and true 1911 in what Jeff Cooper called “Condition Two” or cocked and locked.
    I left my 1911 style for the double/single mechanism simply because of lack of faith in the 1911 safety. Now, however, I have tried to research the issue and found nothing that indicated the safety on an unmodified 1911 had ever really been unreliable.
    For a period, I am ashamed to admit, I carried my 1911 hammer down on a live round, thinking I could thumb the hammer back to initiate the first round and felt, due to Colt’s rebounding firing pin, it was safe (except, of course, when lowering the hammer on a live round).
    Now, I carry in Condition Two and find that my first shot is no longer a “throw away” because I have a short trigger pull which is light enough for accuracy. Works for me.
    Quick to get into action, accurate and almost intuitive to drop the safety with my right thumb as the sights come up to eye level and as my trigger finger moves from the side of the frame and into the trigger guard. With a little practice, it became quick and smooth and does not require thought. It becomes instinctive with practice. Couple the manual safety on the 1911 with the grip safety and I feel secure. As I said, works for me.

    1. Slight correction: Condition Two is not “cocked and locked.” Condition One is cocked and locked; Condition Two is carrying with the hammer down on a chambered round, as you mentioned doing for a time.

      Glad to see you’ve come over the side of Condition One. 🙂 1911’s since the 70’s are extremely safe cocked and locked, with no less than 3 mechanisms in action to prevent the hammer from falling (trigger, grip safety, thumb safety). IMO C1 is the only way to carry a 1911 intended for rapid deployment in the face of a threat..

  22. I have carried a P220 for years, on and off duty. I will be adding a P227 to my inventory along with the optional high capacity 14 round magazines. Hopefully the SRT option is available.

  23. After reading comments in blog I must say, if some of you guys are spending in the $1200 range for a Sig ditch it and buy a Kimber. I just traded my P239 9mm for a Super Carry Pro 45. Granted, the Sig was a nice gun as far as concealment is concerned but found it difficult in its accuracy. Probably me but the Kimber is an easy carry/conceal friendly highly accurate handgun. Even with 4″ barrel, the gun is absolutely dead on. The fact that I traded up to 45 cal from 9mm makes me feel I could stop a truck. Just sayin.

    1. Rick,

      I have a Kimber and it is a fine pistol. However, I just acquired a Smith & Wesson SW1911SC. It will shoot with the Kimber all day and, having a scandium/aluminum frame, it is significantly lighter. Cost is about the same. However, Smith has a new and patented trigger mechanism, which I really like. I was warned to avoid the “Massachusetts Trigger” and have the other option and like it a great deal. But, different web sites advise avoiding a steady diet of +P ammo in the scandium frame because it is not as strong as steel. Still, it is a dandy and I find I am carrying it more than the Kimber.

    2. Coke, pepsi, ford or dodge -personal choice in a carry piece is no different. Almost all the mentioned firearms have their merits. I carry a Colt 91A1 and have for years. Is it a tac driver- NO, but who the hell is scared of a tac? At 10, 15 and 25 i can drop 6 in a steel pie plate. But even my ultra cheap ATI can do that. For the casual concealed carry citizen, it all comes down to comfort, control-ability and familiarity. No reason to bash each other over these choices-

  24. There once was a guy who called into one of these ‘open phone’ political TV shows. The issue was the American Car Market and its decline, or something like that. With his whiny voice the man declared: “Why would anyone buy foreign cars, when everybody knows that we’re making the best?”. Must have been the same guy who calls SIG owners snobs. I like American cars and American guns, but I also like to look over the rim of my little sandbox and check out other people’s products – and let me tell you, SIG guns is quality with a capital “Q”!

  25. Geez what is the price of this wonder gun?

    I noted that it goes from $1,000 to $1,250.00. Seems rather steep to me to purchase a “not so big gun.”

    While this is only my opinion, and I have never shot one, but it doesn’t do anymore than guns less than one half their price.

    Sig owners are the snobs of the gun world

    Personally, you can keep your Sigs and stay in fantasy land. I’ll stick to a meat and potatoes gun that is cheap, reliable and just as effective for at LEAST half the cost.

    It’s not like a Sig turns a crap ass shooter into a top gun. There are way too many metrosexuals in the Gun community.

    Owning a Gucci gun is not going to make you a better shot.

    1. Snob is just your opinion. I like Ferrari too. Pardon me if I don’t buy your transportation vehicle just because you own it. By the way, I also own Colt, Beretta, AE, Springfield XDs; so your post only shows your level of ‘caliber’.

    2. There are 2 reasons I have several SIG’s as well as many other brands. The first is they are top Quality and noone can argue that. The second is even though I pay more than I have for some of the others, they hold their value so there really isn’t a loss of money from buying a SIG. Same with the HK’s I own. Guns, especially now, are an investment and a store of value just like gold and silver.

  26. I’m a SIG guy, but I’m looking to invest in a FNX-45 Tactical because of the TB. I’d be sold on this SIG if it had the option.

  27. Sauerkraut and beer…that can solve many problems all by itself, ha ha. But your right, Swiss and Germans have produced quality guns since William Tell, who shot the apple from his boy’s head. I believe that his crossbow was made by SIG. Not meaning to bash anyone, but Germans and Swiss in particular, tend to think quality first, in almost everything. That’s also one of the reasons why their products usually are expensive. A ten dollar watch tells the same time as a six thousand dollar Breitling…

  28. Swiss/German same to me. They have always been more innovative than we. Even if their weapons haven’t been excepted by us all the time. Remember the locking lug Mauser bolt action was the one judged against all the others and adopted by everybody. I have some German in me and some American Indian and like Sauerkraut, beer, and fattening pastry too.

    1. Martin,

      Parker Ackley, after WWII set about to determine the strongest rifle action of WWII. If memory serves, he could develop loads that would blow up every military rifle action except only one. The only action he could not blow up was the Japanese Arisaka. That lead Ackley to conclude that the Arisaka had the strongest action of any WWII rifle.
      People may have copied the Mauser action, but it still isn’t as strong as Japanese Arisaka. Sadly, the Arisaka is not a thing of beauty or a joy forever to look upon.

  29. I think the 92f and its variants (Not really that diff.) is plenty strong enough to handle .40 S & W. I fill my wifes with max loads in her 92f; havent seen a problem yet. The Tool is 20+ now and is, except for a diff. barrell still going strong.

  30. Exactly. and the men behind the gun are half of the story as well, the ones that invented it and the ones that used it.

    WR

  31. Ha ha, that’s very kind of you! But seriously, I think that some people might be interested in knowing where something is from.

  32. Chef,
    I believe I read somewhere that one of the reasons that the FBI and many police forces are going back to the 9mm from the 40 is because many .40 sw caliber guns are built around previous 9mm models and the frames just couldn’t handle the .40 caliber round causing increased wear and damage.
    However even now the Army is looking at replacing the M9 sidearm for something with more power and reliability. The .45 might be an option, the Marines still use a 1911 as a CQB pistol for example. The point is if you’re limited to FMJ, like the US Military is, it’s harder to argue against bigger is usually better theory. If you are not limited, like the FBI,the consumer, etc., and can use quality ammo +P, hollow points, OTM, etc. its hard to go wrong.
    Just my two cents.

  33. SIG…always praised and respected all over the world as being one of the best gun manufacturer in the world, but hardly ever is there a mentioning of the fact, that SIG is a Swiss weapons company. The origins of the original SIG company date back to 1853. Later, they changed their name to “Schweizerische Industrie Gesellschaft” (SIG), or in English “Swiss Industrial Company”.

    Sorry for the hint of frustration in my words. Maybe it’s because I’m of Swiss descent and proudly wore a SIG 9mm when I was in the Swiss Army in the 70’s. Funny thing is, I own several American guns (and love them all) and even an Israeli made one, but no Swiss gun. So, I guess I better shut up and shoot! 🙂

  34. @Chef, stick to cooking and reading about weapons and wound potential. Having used a 9mm and the 5.56 in combat, I would have much preferred have the .45 (HK) and the 7.62 I had in later rotations. I like the smoothness of the 40 when it comes to shooting, but the 45 is the only one to put down on the first hit. Thanks for the discussion though.

    1. Paddy my man…more old wives tales…I thought the 1 shot knocked ’em back 25 feet stories were gone. I am afraid that a soldier using the 9mm and 5.56 in combat, or the .45 and 7.62 would still not make you an expert. See that all the time on the web. “have you ever been in combat?”. That is irrelevant. Read the studies of the past 10-15 years.

    2. Bob, if that is your real name (haha), don’t much care if you think I was in the two locations I was in, but you are right, having bigger, more powerful weapons/slugs doesn’t make anyone an expert. But whether you are or are not an expert, if you hit what you shoot at, it goes down so much better and so much deader. And when you hit multiple times with the 5.56 and still wonder why that Haji is still throwing rounds at you, it ain’t good. As for the 9mm and 45, when I used those, it was not a good time. And I never said it knocked anything back 25 feet (that’s about 9 meters), since they usually dropped where they stood if you hit where you should have. So again, don’t give a damn if you think I did or did not see the elephant.

    3. I will say this: 9 vs .45 isn’t even close to 5.56 vs 7.62 NATO. Comparing pistol calibers =/= carbine-battle rifle rounds. There’s science behind that too.

      That said, Paddy, those 5.56 weren’t putting them down probably because you were stuck with ss109s. Great on soft armor- horrible on pajamas. Yes. I read that too.

      If you were issued a hk .45, you either aren’t American or you’re claiming to be JSOC of some sort. Which is it?

      SF and SEALs chose 9mm. CAG chose .40, but rumor has it they’re going to 9. MARSOC has their 1911s…jury is still out on that. I guess most SF just don’t know as much as you?

      One thing we have in common: if it comes down to pistols, something has gone very wrong.

  35. No, what’s funny is that the FBI is returning to 9mm because its performance is equal to or better than .40 or .45 (or .357sig, for that matter). They just admitted it in a RFP.

    The initial transition from .38 to .45 can’t be counted as proof of how awesome .45 is because those .38s were weaker than .380 is now. Technology wasn’t there yet.

    All approved pistol loads perform so closely that one is not really better than another. The FBI says so. The IWB says so. Drs Fackler and Roberts say so. ER doctors have testified that they can’t tell the difference between the wounds of a 9, .40, or .45.In other words, people who do this for a living.

    This information has been out there amongst serious shooters for a decade. If you want to spread myths & rumors, go right ahead. ..but I’m going to call you out.

    .45 is a viable round. So is .40. So is 9. Not one has a decisive edge in wounding over the other. There’s science behind that.

  36. Yep WR, I agree with you on the wound potential. Navy Corpsmen “back in the day” were required to shoot a goat or a pig, and then fix it up. It had to survive. Then it was butchered and eaten. I had a Corpsman buddy that said he borrowed a .38 to shoot his instead of the .45, as it caused less damage and was easier to fix up. many people also know that the .38 was replaced with the .45 back around the time of the Philippine Insurrection because of it’s lack of stopping power. Apparently the .45 had no such problem, I have a Judge, and shoot 230 grain pure lead bullets in 45 Long Colt, and have recovered many bullets that expanded to the size of a quarter or more.
    Have you thought about taking off about one/eighth inch off that front sight of your Taurus?

  37. Larry,

    I purchased a Taurus exactly like yours for 200 at the pawn shop. The front sight was loose, and I fixed that. It works great! For a truck gun or inexpensive carry gun it is OK, but you know for the size and weight it is a great overall gun at any price. I have been surprised at how well it works.
    If the bullet doesnt expand, well, it is still cutting a .451 inch hole. Mine shoots two inches low at 15 yards, I can live with that.
    Wilburn

  38. Funny, the FBI agrees with me on wound potential of the .45. They feel the .40 is a compromise, and a good one. 230 grains, .451 inch diameter. The laws of physics are immutable. Then there are secret sources, people who claim to have fired bullets into goats in the lab(!!!!!) and other poorly crafted examples of junk science. The .45 ACP has much greater wound potential than the smaller cartridge as many agencies have learned through hard trail and error. I did not see the bullet impact in every case but i arrived just after the fact in many cases.
    I will stick with the .45.

    1. You can huff and puff all you want to. This idea of a 45 cal being such a “manstopper” is total nonsense (and I own two, a Glock 21, and a Kimber Target Eclipse and I recently sold a Glock 20 in 10mm).

      This is metrosexual hysterical nonsense promoted by people more concerned with fantasy than reality.

      The 45 is an excellent round. However, it is not a great versatile round. Let’s concede it is such an anemic round that most states won’t let you hunt with one to even kill a deer.

      The 357 mag, on the other hand IS a caliber that you can hunt deer and other game with.

      So if you want the ultimate caliber for versatility, it would be a 357 mag.

      And if you can pay $1100.00 for a Gucci gun with 7 rounds, you can purchase a good used 357 for $400.00. And save the other $700.00 for other necessities.

      As it stands, this stopping power for civilians is pure idiocy concocted by Gun Writer prostitutes that can’t figure out just how deep to get up the rears of gun manufacturers.

      For myself, for civilian self defense, while I own quite a few guns–too many, I’d be just as well gunned with a 22 lr as a 45 acp. And this is the reality.

      Let’s quite blowing smoke up civilians’ rears.

      And I don’t care what the FBI thinks. They seem to change their gun buying habits with the same frequency as a female fashionista changing her shoes.

      The FBI doesn’t impress me. The FBI is a metrosexual wannbe law enforcement agency of white collar pencil pushers. Why should one be impressed with that?

  39. “There is no other self loading pistol cartridge with the wound potential of the .45” That’s where I stopped reading. Lost all credibility right there. I like .45, but myths like that have no place in today’s gun culture.

  40. As with virtually all Sig’s, this is going to be a great gun. I’ve owned a P226 for nearly 15years now, and I’ve NEVER had a misfire with it.
    Being a .staunch fan of the .45 round since my military days, I own a Tisas 1911 clone, and a Taurus PT 145 Millenium Pro, and I have to tell you that the Taurus is by far my favorite. I believe I only paid $329 for it-and it also has a 10 round magazine. Fit and finish is excellent, and it’s size/weight is perfect for me. It digests every commercial cartridge I feed it-and I think its because the chamber throat is super-polished. I mean slick as a whistle. Its a really nice package – shoots 25 yard 3.5″ groups all day, and with Speer Gold Dots, occasionally I break the 3″ mark. I’d love to be able to afford the Sig 227 tho.

    1. Why?

      It sounds like you have a wonderful gun, got a great deal, saved a lot of money, and are incredibly happy. It does EXACTLY what you want it to.

      Yet you want to purchase a Gucci Gun at around $1100.00 ?

      That is like saying you have the perfect house for yourself, paid $100,00 in a great neighborhood and you love EVERYTHING about it.

      But secretly you wish you had a house that you didn’t like, in a bad neighborhood and that you have to pay $325,000 for.

      Ever think of considering therapy????

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