Firearms

Remington 870: The Big Gun

Dark gray Remington 870 on a white background

The strung-out doper had knocked in the kitchen door, thinking no one was home, or perhaps realizing the only occupant was a frightened senior citizen (a rule of thumb here is the older the victim, the younger the criminal).

The newest 870 in the gun safe has modern features but builds on the proven reputation of the 870 on a gray background
The newest 870 in the gun safe has modern features but builds on the proven reputation of the 870.

My friend’s twin sister was home. Her car was in the shop. Her shotgun was not.

As the big man rifled cabinets and tore apart the medicine cabinet searching for a drug he wanted, a determined 68-year-old widow racked the slide of her Remington 870. She stood facing the kitchen doorway, taking in the scene.

Her home had been invaded by a criminal. She asked him to leave in no uncertain terms. He took up a kitchen knife and advanced toward her. She later said his eyes were glowing with hate. He planned to continue his actions and took it personally that someone attempted to stop him.

A few weeks before, he had robbed a fast-food restaurant and attempted to rob a pawn shop. In each case, his mother posted bond. In one instance, he hid out with her for two weeks in a nursing home.

For the pawn shop debacle, the judge did not revoke bond for the first offense; for the robbery attempt, he reported that “nothing was actually stolen,” neatly ignoring the previous arrest.

This time, he would not appear before a magistrate. As he approached my friend’s twin sister, a charge of 00-buckshot took him in stride.

Born Upon the Tide

During another incident, a large shark was hauled aboard a trawler along with the catch. Thrashing and fighting, the shark gashed a fisherman’s leg. The captain grasped his old Marine-finish Model 1300 shotgun and rushed to deliver a lot of  00-buckshot into the primordial beast.

He ended the fight without badly damaging the deck.

Life on the Farm

A farm boy heard a commotion in the henhouse. He grabbed his well-worn Remington and three big shells. A coyote ran across the field, leaving behind a line of mangled hens. The young man laid the bead on the coyote’s shoulder, followed it, and pressed the trigger.

The coyote fell at a long 40 yards.

The Credible Shotgun

Dark gray Remington 870 on a white background
The Remington 870 sees extensive police and military use.

Whether you are a professional or interested student, the shotgun is a credible tool. And that is what each of the very different individuals in those stories have in common—the shotgun was a tool and nothing else It was not purchased as as a collector’s item or based on looks. It was purchased for its performance.

When you face an unexpected and overwhelming threat, the firearm on hand should be one that works, offers sufficient power for the job and is simple to operate.

Of course, you need to handle the weapon well and a shotgun is the obvious first choice. You must consider the intimidation factor yet, in the end, the shotgun is a solid performer offering proven and decisive performance.

The Remington 870

What makes a Remington 870, my choice, different from many others? There are thousands of short-barrel, shotguns-category” target=”_blank”>pump-action shotguns in service.

First, the Remington 870 is proven. It has been stored in the trunk of patrol cars and used by 10-thumbed, hell-for-leather cops for 50 years or more. The Remington has survived without maintenance and even thrown around like a ball bat.

That is not ideal, but imagine how the 870 will perform with a little TLC.

Dark charcoal modern Remington 870  with focus on muzzle brake and extended magazine
The modern 870 in this version features a muzzle brake/door breacher and extended magazine.

The 870 features dual-action rail bars. A single bar is not as well balanced or efficient. The action cannot be as smooth. The newest 870 in my safe is a black synthetic-stock version I like a lot.

  • The stock and forend are models of ergonomic function.
  • The stock features a recoil pad that works in absorbing recoil.
  • The receiver is drilled and tapped for a scope or red dot.
  • The bead front sight is very fast on target. It is all the rage to equip the shotgun with rifle sights. If you are certain that slug work is part of the equation and the likely problem, then shotgun sights are a good thing. Remember, a shotgun handles mostly by feel. At short range and always in home defense, the front bead offers real speed.

When you are looking for a defensive shotgun, you must realize the shotgun for personal defense is not a sporting gun. A black tactical shotgun with rifle sights and an extended magazine tube is a good defense weapon and must be understood.

An Old Shotgun on a light gray background
This old shotgun is still in use, but there are better choices.

A Bit of History

The first shotgun commonly regarded as an anti-personnel piece was the blunderbuss. The famous bell-shaped muzzle was not designed to spread the shot; it was to make loading easier. A shooter stuffed the blunderbuss with various lead balls or even tacks and nails. In the hands of just one guard, its awful efficiency was such that it could keep dozens of inmates in.

Later, 10-bore shotguns became popular, particularly in the Old West. A modern 12-gauge is about as effective as the old 10-gauge shotgun. The stagecoach gun, riot gun and other renditions also were popular.

Soldiers used the Winchester 1897 pump-action shotgun during the Philippine wars and extensively in World War I. That shotgun has a bayonet lug that seems never to have been used. Soldiers credited it for shooting grenades out of the air during trench warfare. That heady reputation led to the shotgun being adopted in great numbers by police. The Remington 870 pump shotgun has been proven in wartime, during police incidents and on game fields. There are few firearms as proven and effective. While the 12-gauge shotgun is a problem solver, it is not very effective if the person wielding it is not trained to use it.

In future installments, we will look at shotgun training and ammunition selection.

What is your favorite “big gun?” Do you agree that the Remington 870 should hold the title? Pop into the comment section and sound off. We want to hear you.

[bob]

About the Author:

Bob Campbell

Bob Campbell’s primary qualification is a lifelong love of firearms, writing, and scholarship. He holds a degree in Criminal Justice but is an autodidact in matters important to his readers. Campbell considers unarmed skills the first line of defense and the handgun the last resort. (He gets it honest- his uncle Jerry Campbell is in the Boxer’s Hall of Fame.)

Campbell has authored well over 6,000 articles columns and reviews and fourteen books for major publishers including Gun Digest, Skyhorse and Paladin Press. Campbell served as a peace officer and security professional and has made hundreds of arrests and been injured on the job more than once.

He has written curriculum on the university level, served as a lead missionary, and is desperately in love with Joyce. He is training his grandchildren not to be snowflakes. At an age when many are thinking of retirement, Bob is working a 60-hour week and awaits being taken up in a whirlwind many years in the future.


Published in
Black Belt Magazine
Combat Handguns
Handloader
Rifle Magazine
Handguns
Gun Digest
Gun World
Tactical World
SWAT Magazine
American Gunsmith
Gun Tests Magazine
Women and Guns
The Journal Voice of American Law Enforcement
Police Magazine
Law Enforcement Technology
The Firearms Instructor
Tactical World
Concealed Carry Magazine
Concealed Carry Handguns



Books published

Holsters for Combat and Concealed Carry
The 1911 Automatic Pistol
The Handgun in Personal Defense
The Illustrated Guide to Handgun Skills
The Hunter and the Hunted
The Gun Digest Book of Personal Defense
The Gun Digest Book of the 1911
The Gun Digest Book of the 1911 second edition
Dealing with the Great Ammunition Shortage
Commando Gunsmithing
The Ultimate Book of Gunfighting
Preppers Guide to Rifles
Preppers Guide to Shotguns
The Accurate Handgun
The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt!'s blog, The Shooter's Log, is to provide information—not opinions—to our customers and the shooting community. We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. The information provided here does not represent the views of Cheaper Than Dirt!

Comments (59)

  1. Great article Bob,

    I have made the switch from my trusty M 500 so time will tell. Where can I buy the (exact) muzzle brake shown in the post? CTD doesn’t seem to have one available.

    Thanks in advance,

    Angus

  2. I am fan of the Remington 870 shotgun. It is one of the best firearms ever made.

    The action is very smooth, especially if you polish action bars.

    There are some problems with extraction of cheap ammo but that can be fixed polishing a chamber or changing extractor.

    Also, there are so many upgrades and accesories for the 870. You can build tactical, home defense or hunting shotgun.

  3. I have found my 870 tactical to be tough, it has never (knock, knock, knock) had a feed problem. I put a pistol grip on the gun but the jury is still out deciding if that was a good move. Mine kicks like hell and the recoil pad is no help but the recoil is much more manageable with the pistol grip. Accuracy seems to be suffering with that addition but I am working on it. Pretty certain it is the shooter’s problem.

  4. The only problem I have with 870s is I can’t turn them away. It is common to find them used and in decent condition and I just keep buying them. I enjoy cleaning them up and rebuilding them. I have turned a couple into tactical guns. 870s can be purchased use for a song and putting back in good order is something I enjoy. Of course the other positive thing about my 870 fetish is if I ever need to outfit the family the 870 is about the best thing they could have.

  5. Bought my first 870 used, when I got out of the army in 71. Was a young cop with a wife and kidlette and very little money. Carried that gun for 30 yrs, plus hunted deer and birds with it. Taught firearms at the police academy for a number of years. Its still going strong. there are 11, 870’s in various configurations and gauges in the safe now. Love them and also have the 7600 rifles in four calibers too.
    As far as quality and service, both have gone down hill dramatically since Freedom Group has taken over Remington. Find an older one and enjoy.

  6. I enjoyed reading all the comments re shoguns for home defense. I have an 870 with extended mag. and a short barrel 590. The 870 action seems smoother to me. Maybe the Mossberg will loosen up in time. As for the
    “rack factor”, our dog woke me one night barking at something in the driveway. I took an ancient J.C. Higgins pump with a cut down barrel with me and found two fellows looking over my truck. When that rattly old slide went to work, there was immediate understanding on the part of the intruders. Never saw them again.

  7. When I wanted to build my own 12 gage Home defense shot gun I knew I wanted to use a certain Remington 12 gage receiver that was legendary for being reliable EVERY TIME and for that reason I started with a 1979 Remington Wing Master 12 gage receiver.

    After doing extensive research on the most reliable Remington 12 gage receiver available at the time of my build all indications led me to the 1979 Wing Master Receiver, It took awhile to find a 1979 in great shape in 2013, but I did find one with less than 200 rounds through her at the time of the build.

    I have 3 different barrels for it, a rifled slug / smooth bore and a 50. cal Sabot barrel (scoped , good to 200 yards),

    I then added a 6 way adjustable Knoxx synthetic stock w/pistol grip, a short smooth bore barrel and scope along with 2 recoil springs and a recoil pad and topped it all off with a laser / light / strobe light combo, mag extender for 7 +1 capacity and finally a fore arm pistol grip because of my physical disability.

    I ended up with a great HD shot gun and with the change of a barrel I can hit a 12″ target out to 200 yards utilizing the Sabot barrel & scope.

    I will be buying another Rem 870 12 gage soon but will be leaving it stock because I just love the look and feel of a Rem with wood stock & fore arm.

    I have shot my Buddies Mossberg 500 and didn’t like them as much as the Rem 870, the 870 just fit me better.

  8. My first 870 was purchased used from a friend, after 40 plus years the gun is still doing the job, and the second was purchased new. Both have extended mags and sights and can handle soft and heavy loads with ease. Would never trade these 12 ga tools. Slugs preform very well and hit 2″ groups at 40 yards.

    Simple is better in all mechanical tools.

  9. I recently got to use a short-ish barrel Remington 870. It’s an alright shotgun. However, I still prefer some variant of the Mossberg 500. Personal choice, I know.

    I have used a Mossberg that came into my father’s house 42 years ago. At the time, I wasn’t impressed with. But, the thing just keeps on shooting. You can’t kill it. It. I had to have the trigger lock on it removed by a locksmith on the 870 the first time I used it. The first time I fired it, it, literally, came apart in my hands when I tried to clean it. I don’t think it will last being carried around in a gun rack on the front of an ATV when chasing cows.

    I need to buy a shorter barrel for my dad’s 500. It’s not really a close quarters weapon with the sporting barrel it has on it.

    1. I certainly can’t argue with you King F. I own both 870s and 500s and I would bet my life on either gun. Sounds like you had some bad luck with your first 870 and I know how first impressions last especially with guns. As for me I don’t recall ever having a problem with either gun.

  10. I forgot something in first comment; in as much as i loved the extra 4 shells in the stock that came on the 590, the design was poor and internally it fell apart. the springs supporting the extra shells, when loaded, were pushing out to the back and eventually separating the recoil pad off the stock itself. Mossberg replaced it for me with another (with a pistol grip). But I replaced it with an adjustable one, as the original length of pull was a little stretch for me with any heavy clothing. Plus, it works better with the overall look of the gun now. But I I like the gun also because it already had the full size “tube” , the ghost sights, as well as tactical front end so thing can be added.

  11. couple of years back I have started to look @ shotguns and been considering the 870 precisely because of it’s rep.. However at the time there seemed to be quite a few really bad reviews of not just on the quality of the newer 870′ but also the bad service at Remington. I was then discussing that with my son who has then decided to surprise with a x-mas gift of 590 BLKWTR ( ya ya I know – he liked the looks of it at the dealer. So I got the 590 and I love it if a bit heavy. it seems that military uses it as well and hence the heavier barrel. have no problem recommending it.

  12. I got my 870 when I was 14 (the legal age at that time) as a gift from my father. Like others have said he is gone now, but the 870 is still around. I’ve had the luck to have taken pheasant, grouse, ducks, geese, rabbits and deer with it, and it is a 16 gage. I’ve had it for 51 years and I wouldn’t trade it for anything. As for home defense, well more than likely 99% of the time all you will have to do is just have the intruder hear you work that action once and your intruder will probably take off. Preferred round high brass #1 (about 10 .300 pellets).

    1. Stand in one room and have your friend ‘rack’ the shotgun. You can’t even hear it. Even if you are listening for it. At best, this is a myth; at worst it’s a myth that will get you killed.

    2. Well, if you’re deaf that might be case. Over the years, like many others here have occasion to “deploy” the dreaded 870 “rack” You may be shocked to learn that most people aren’t that deaf.

      I personally had occasion to observe a person sh*t himself – LITERALLY. I was inside guy on a surveillance at a trucking company, waiting for a company employee to tip-toe in at 0-Dark-Thirty. He showed up right on time, just as the informant told us he would. I saw him in the glow of a night light as he approached the key cabinet and simultaneously announced my office and racked the slide of the 870. He froze solid (well semi-solid). He was the last one hooked up and transported as we had to search him (phew!) and let him clean himself up as best he could in the washroom.

      Another friend came home one day early from vacation and heard somebody trying his front door at 2:00AM. He grabbed his 870 from the bedroom closet, went to the open 2nd floor window and racked the slide. He heard “Oh, sh*t!: and then all he saw were a88holes and elbows in the moonlight as the pair ran across his front yard and into the woods across the street.

      YMMV, but trust me, it ain’t no myth!

  13. I’ve had my 870 for almost 47 years, and I still like everything about it. It was made when the wood stocks were still of exceptional quality.

    The action is superb, as smooth as butter on glass. I think the twin rail is the key element, but I also think the release is super fast. With a little work, the action can be honed and polished to improve performance equal to almost a generation worth of shooting.

    We’re all different, and my style grew to hold both a precise back pressure on the stock, and develop the muscle-memory to instantly chamber the following round. I could do as well duck hunting as my friends who were using autos.

    I’m glad that I never repaired a small gouge in the stock, a result of my dad taking a bad fall once when he was using my 870. Dad’s gone now, but his few guns, and especially my “blemished” 870, bring warm memories every time I take them out.

    I don’t want to alter my 870, but I do want to buy a good big-bore for home defense. I’m still muddling in the decision process. I like what I see in different products, but I believe that if I work on another 870 like I did my original, the action will be smooth and stunningly fast.

    I’m also concerned about the muzzle flash in close quarters. I’ve had a little experience with flash suppression on military weapons, but haven’t considered muzzle flash on home defense. My custom loads for pistols have very little flash, with the exception of magnum loads which, of course, will momentarily blind everyone! For close quarters, I still question the need for magnum loads. I like the idea of 8-10″ penetration and stay put – expend all the energy right there. Having time for a well-controlled second shot is better than trying to recover from an elephant-gun blast.

    For the infrequent shooter, using magnum loads for home defense may go something like this – both the shooter and the criminal will hit the floor at the same time, and the first one to get up will be declared the winner.

    Thanks again for your review on the 870 for home defense.

    John Saurenman

    1. John,
      You might want to look for a 870 Express Super Mag. 12 ga. 2 3/4″ – 3″ – 3 1/2″. Depending on what you want to spend, you can figure between $450.00 – $650.00.

  14. Yes if that happens it is a real pain. However I don’t recall seeing one in that condition. I’m sure it happens. I have a many 500s as 870s and find them both to be very durable guns.

  15. Sir, the extractor is part of the bolt, it’s the ejector that’s riveted to the receiver. Your talking about the old way to replace it, Brownell’s sells the parts and tools to easily replace the ejector, it’s a quick and inexpensive repair, no refinishing the receiver when done this way. Here’s a video showing how it’s done. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdA1tFQpJRo

  16. As a gunsmith and FFL I don’t care much for the Remington 870. If you break the extractor it is a very expensive repair because it is riveted to the receiver. You have to drill it out, fix a new one in, do a considerable amount of metalwork to blend in the head of the rivet, then re-blue the entire receiver.

    I prefer the Mossberg 500 series where you just unscrew the broken piece and put a new one in. Done in less than 5 minutes and doesn’t cost a fortune.

    1. Your not much of a gunsmith!!!! First of all its not the extractor your talking about its the EJECTOR!!!!! The only way an ejector will fail or break is because of operator stupidity. Most gun problems are caused by the gun handler. The 870 and the mossberg 500, 590 and maverick 88 are fantastic weapons. There is no need to look any further than these if your are buying a shotgun. A shotgun in a gunfight trumps any handgun and has initial parrity under 40 yards with any ak or ar. In addition it takes years to be proficient with a handgun or rifle, not so with a shotgun. A shotgun is your best defensive and economical value. Also, every weapon has its weak points The weak points on the 870 and mossbergs are non issues if properly cleaned and maintained.

    2. At 40 yards, I have a lot of other choices than shooting. Not to disparage most home invaders, but most of them want to be some place else as much as you want them to be. I can help them with that at 40 yards. Inside 20-30 yards, I can help him move to the hospital or the morgue.

  17. I’m have two, one is an Ithaca 37 and the other is a Browning Auto-5 that i’ve cut the barrel to 20″ and added a +2 extension, and a set of Williams fire sights. At in-house range, aiming is very important. My recommendation is to pattern your shotgun at your interior distances, so that you can see how important aiming and shell selection is for self defense.

  18. I prefer the Mossberg 590 special purpose with the bayonet lug.
    YES, the Marine Corps still teaches how to use a bayonet !

  19. My home defense shotgun is a martially-marked 1918 manufactured Winchester 1897 trench gun. I have lengthened the chamber for 2 3/4 ” shells and lengthened the forcing cone. While I have the bayonet , a 16″ blade on the end makes it unwieldy for home defense. I keep it loaded with 00 Buck, and it helps me to sleep peacefully at night.

    1. I acquired my ’97 some fifty years ago. It still resides in my bedroom with a mix of buck and No.4 shells.

  20. I bought my 870 with lawn mowing money when I was 13 years old. It has been in duck blinds, dove fields, and even taken a deer at short range. In the years since buying that gun I have collected quite a few additional shotguns but still rely on the old 870 for home defense. It is old, has lots of scratches and nicks, and is the one I prefer if I have to come face to face with someone intent on harming my family.

  21. I modified my Remington 870 Super-mag 3-1/2 magnum for home and shop defense. I shortened the barrel to just over the legal minimum, re-installed the front bead sight, grooved the ramp for easier sighting when hip shooting, shortened the stock for hip shooting and easier manuverability, added an extended mag, added holes in the mag for vissually verifying available loads, and shortened the forearm. I need a better shock pad for hip shooting 3-1/2 mags as it really kicks like a mule. Low brass and standard shells not bad, but if there is an invasion I want to deliver the most stopping power I can. I have #6 double mag 3-1/2 shells. In the heat of the moment I don’t think I will notice the kick. I have one more mod I will make when I get the chance. I will bore and thread the end of the barrel for a rifled choke to create a twist to the load and cause a greater spread of the shot in shorter distance. If I get a chance I may also lengthen the shot taper and hone the barrel to max id to reduce recoil. Hopefully #6 shot will not be so dangerous to occupants in other rooms.

    1. Samuel,

      If you lengthen the forcing cone and port the barrel it will take a lot of kick out of it without hurting performance. Just note that shooting a ported barrel in low light conditions may not be desirable because of the flash created by the ports. But the amount of the flash will also depend on the firearm and the ammo used, best to test before your in a situation.

      Some years ago I couldn’t understand why Glock didn’t offer a ported handgun with night sights until I fired my 23C one early evening! After the first shot I couldn’t see the target for about 20-30 seconds, if I had fired follow up shots or double tapped that time would have surely increased. I called her the fire breathing dragon after that day.

  22. Took a Remington 870 which I purchased in 1988 for $212.00 at Wal-Mart, added a composite charging slide, 6 position collapsible stock, side saddle for 6 extra rounds, a barrel shroud heat shield, sling swivels, a USGI M16 sling and door breacher wide-open choke along with fluorescent front tube sight. Say whay you will, but it is damn effective in many varying roles. Bird gun, home defense or skeet…it is a reliable weapons platform.

  23. You cannot go wrong with an Remy, 870. Its the best pump shotgun made for the price. Get one and get familiar with it and you will have a friend for life.

  24. First I’ve got to say that not everyone needs a 12 . I’ve owned perhaps 20 or so 870’s and maybe 6 or 8 500’s . The 500’s were mostly boat guns in Alaska as I was a commercial fisherman for 30 years . Never took care of em’ yet they fired and fired well every time . Maybe 50% 12s , 50% 20’s and 28 and 410 when shooting all gauge competition .
    My 20’s are still my favorites providing they are 3″ mags whether shooting slugs or shot . I’ve never had to shoot a brownie or a grizzly but very close on many occasions , even a moose or two and never once felt under gunned .
    When in self defense mode you’re close up and there isn’t anyone that can take a load from either gauge and feel too good if they feel at all . Also the 20 is much easier to handle in almost every instance . Were I wheelchair bound there is no question I would have the 20 .

  25. I have a lot of respect for the 870 police models and the old Ithica 37 riot guns, but my choice is the Mossberg 590 a1. I didn’t grow up with guns, so I don’t have any generational bias towards 870s like many of my friends do. I really prefer the tang safety and having the slide release aft of the trigger guard. I also like the extra rounds on board. The 870 police is an excellent choice too, and you can find police trade-ins pretty reasonably. At the end of the day, even a H&R protector that you can afford beats not having a long gun at all. (I have a Pardner too and it’s rock solid) . Can’t wait for the follow ups!

  26. My 870 using slugs took big whitetails in PA growing up. One worked well in Viet Nam, another brought down many ducks Down East, a different version was on my back again in the Gulf War and my last one does solid duty in my home. I can’t imagine being without an 870 in one of its versions.

    1. @Secundius
      Whould be interested in hearing what you think after you take a look at the website. There’s google pictures on the web too I think. Given how the center of gravity of the platform is moved back to the shoulder (about 11 inches) , the recoil is more direct with less arc of rise. I had not considered a wheelchair application but given the number of those in this position i would think this might be a great solution. Lots of used 870’s an 500’s out there in the world for fairly cheap too.
      I found that the recoil was more manageable and seemed less sharp in this Bullpup configuration too. JJ is a great guy and we both have a passion for Bullpups. He’s more than happy to answer any questions one has and take great pride in his product. Looking forward to hearing from you on this!

  27. The 870 and 500 are the most known, accepted and recognized pump shotguns today from my POV. I have bought several of the 500’s as gifts and keep one with my boat gear as part of the emergency gear.
    I’d like to offer those here on this thread two things which I have found to be useful in where the 12 ga shotgun is concerned.
    There is a company all shot gunners should be aware of called
    “D Duplex” who are the makers of some very unique tactical and hunting ammunition for shotguns. I have used the Hexolite32 and Monolite32 for bear defense for quite some time now. Their “AP” round is also very effective. Look them up on line you may find the fillers for those gaps in your shotgun ammo line up thru these guys.
    The other suggestion is for anyone who has ever wanted to have a Bullpup or was interested in a Bullpup Shotgun. Look for the web site of “Bullpups Unlimited”. This is an all US company who makes BP stock kits for the 870. The cost is reasonable, the product is strong and very reliable. This aftermarket stock will make your standard 870 with an 18″ barrel ….. 28″ long, that’s as long or somewhat shorter than an AR platform. It adds about a pound an a quarter to the overall weight but moves the CG and nose heavy weight back towards ones shoulder about 11 inches thus changing the overall ergonomics of the platform. Stock is well thought out with several hard points for slings and several rails to attach sights, lights and lasers to as one sees fit. Pistol grip and safety are straight AR platform design so there is little or no learning curve for operation. Pump action is very positive as is the trigger extension. The trigger is what one would expect of a tactical shotgun mad just a bit stiffer by the extension but not noticeably so during actual use.
    Makes for a great Alaskan fishing carry, fits very nicely in small tight places like small bush aircraft or boat lockers or on vehicle seats for out of window engagements , carries well across the front or back. From a tactical POV if one happens to practice “stacked entry operations” this shortened platform now allows for its placement in the stack to be more versatile instead of always being in the front due in part to a its leant when sporting a factory stock.
    Converting is very simple and takes about 15 to 20 minutes. Its a “drop-in”, “no-modification required” process, tools for the stock assembly provided and all one needs is the long driver to get the factory stock off.
    If one is interested in Bullpups shotguns or just a more compact platform without the loss in any way of factory performance and dosnt want to pay the bigger dollars for a production platform then you should consider this kit. “JJ” is the guy that will answer the phone or your emails and he’s a Bullpup fan and collector too. I also understand that there will shortly be a conversion kit for the Mossberg 500’s too.
    Lot of possibilities here for both civilian and LE use. A SWAT or tactical team might think about converting several of their standard 870’s or 500’s to this Bullpup configuration. On a lot of levels a BP shotgun just makes sense.
    Anyway, its worth a look at the site if for nothing more than to be aware of a different option that could be a possible game changer.

  28. @ Timothy-Allen Albertson.

    I would like to have a C-More M26 Civilian MASS 12-Gauge Shotgun in Carbine configuration. At 3.7-pounds and a 7-inch barrel, w/5+1 capability. I’m a Wheelchair Driver, and the last time I shot a Standard Remington 870 Shotgun. I went “Turtle”, even with the Wheel’s Locked. So, I need something small and compact enough,I can control while sitting in a Wheelchair. And the C-More M26 seems to fit the bill. But, at $4,995.00 USD. It’s a WEE-BIT outside my Price League. Maybe, after winning the Uber-Mega Goggle-Plex Power Ball Jackpot. I might have a chance. LOL.

    1. TNX for the advice re wheelchairs. I am not far away from one. I suppose a scooter would have less chance of going turtle than a wheel chair. And a scooter has a bigger better battery pack–I am a Ham so I want something that can also run my radio gear when I am out and about. Even though about running a solar panel onto a scooter. Have to watch it though in this town both my Dad and Brother managed to get arrested for DWI on a scooter, Dad for booze and Bro for opiod pills. But I suppose I should count myself luckier as this next year I am going to be marrying almost 20 yrs younger. From hating and fear of firearms she has come to accept them as long as I keep them in the closet.

  29. I am still a dedicated fan of Deputy Mossberg, Star No. 500. But this is an excellent piece. I certainly would not turn down a good deal on one.

  30. @ Secundius Understood, but poor McRuger doesn’t appear to have been an observer. My only knowledge came from observing a negligent discharge at the range back in the ’60’s. Idiot sgt had his finger on the trigger when he racked a round and was extremely surprised when it went Boom! So surprised he shocked himself again when he said Sh*t! All I did was…. BOOM! again

  31. @ Secundius.. Not to confuse McRuger any further. I believe that what you meant to say was:

    You hold the trigger back, never releasing it and continue to rack the slide. I don’t believe there was a interlock on the 1897, thus the breech would close and the firing pin would trip.

    The way you explained it made no sense: If you hold the slide back and trip the trigger repeatedly what, besides nothing, would happen?

    1. @ RTH 60098.

      I may have reversed the order of the operation. But, I was a JAFO and not a participant to the operation.

    1. @ Carl P.

      Between the M1897, the Browning Auto Five and M1918 BAR, they got one hell of a workout clearing the German Trenches, real German Crowd Pleasers. Trench Broom, Trench Sweeper, the M1897, was particularly useful as far as shooting tossed German “Potato Mashers” Hand-Grenades out of the air. Just like Shooting Skeet, as one Army Private put it. I don’t know weather the same practice was ever put to use in WW2, though. At, least I’ve haven’t heard of any.

      As far as the Bullpup Shotguns, there about 50, or so, under consideration. I especially like the Saiga models, but they might be a little overkill, as far as length is concerned.

  32. Secundius

    I’m not getting it. Do you pull the slide back pull the trigger then slide forward? Did the slide forward then fire the shell? What i’m picturing here is keeping the trigger pulled and letting the slide of the action feed and fire.

    1. @ Mc Ruger.

      The way it was shown to me. You hold Pump-Slide back, never releasing it, and continue pulling the trigger, until the magazine is empty. I never tried the stunt myself, only watched the stunt being performed.

  33. There’s also a World War One trick called the “Fast Five” used on the Model 1897 Pump-Action Shotgun. The object was to shoot as fast a you can, someone came up with the idea of. After chambering a round, to hold the slide action of the shotgun back in the open-position, and pulling the trigger as fast a you can, or the “Fast Five”.

    1. I may be getting my facts jumbled here but I seem to remember that the “fast five” could be accomplished because the shotgun at the time was a Winchester (?) that had an exposed hammer. Something about the sear engaging when the bolt was fully engaged forward and the trigger was being held down. It would just drop the hammer on a loaded chamber then …. Pump and repeat as fast as you could throw the pump! Is that correct or am I remembering wrong?

    2. @ Carl P.

      It was 1966 (?), I was approximately 10-years of age, and I was stand in the far right corner of the bleachers, about middle section. From where I was standing, it didn’t look like his left arm was moving (pump arm), with the exception of him steadying and aiming the shotgun. His right arm was working the trigger. I couldn’t even tell you what kind of shotgun he was using, with the exception of it being pump-action

    3. Once the first shot is taken the trigger is held back as the pump is engaged again and again with the trigger held rearward until all the shells have been expended.

      It is not the most accurate way to use a shot gun but if you need to clear an area real fast this will do it.

  34. More criminal acts have been prevented or criminals stopped dead in their tracks by the sound of an 870 being racked than have been by the gun being discharged.

    That sound is known – even to those who’ve never heard of the gun – as a sign of bad things to come.

    I own three!

  35. Yes… Know the Remington well… Also the. Mossberg.

    Carried both in my patrol vehicle. Had one for my use as well as an extra one “just in case” the need presented itself + 50 rounds of 00 buck and slugs.

    They worked well when we needed to break out the heavy duty stuff… (this was before the advent of the AR15 being used in law enforcement).

    And since I was working in the Miami area
    it did get a lot of work.

    Robberies, shootings, active home invasion, large drug seizes… The 12 gauge would always make it’s presence as the one mean ass don’t mess with me weapon of choice.

    Generally it severed It’s purpose and gave some “religion” as something you don’t want to be looking at from the business end of.

  36. Of all the guns I have there are 2 I just keep buying. The Mossberg 500 and the Remington 870. As Bob Campbell says there are very few guns with the track record of the 870 but I believe the Mo 500 is equal to it. I have several 870s in original condition but I have also converted some to tactical shotguns. I have never known an 870 to fail in the field, testing or in practice. Inside the house a tactical 870 is my go to gun.

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