General

Help! What’s in This Box?

M 392 A2 ~ What is it?

There’s all sorts of cool things in the Cheaper Than Dirt! warehouse, but sometimes we don’t immediately know what’s in a given case. For instance, this box was at the bottom of a stack, and we’re not sure what’s in it. It would take a forklift to get to, but we were hoping the community would know what is contained therein. Comments are open for WAGs, or even legit interpretations of the lettering. And that “M 392 A2” rings a bell somewhere…

M 392 A2 ~ What is it?
M 392 A2 ~ What is it?
To guide, inspire and help prepare American shooters for protect and defend what they hold dear. The Shooter's Log, is to provide information—not opinions—to our customers and the shooting community. We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. The information provided here does not represent the views of Cheaper Than Dirt!

Comments (128)

  1. It can also contain one of three things: 1) The reward money that Hans Solo forgot about; 2) Another crystal skull that Indiana Jones was looking for; 3) The one armed man’s identification for the Fugitive (David Jansen or Harrison Ford..you pick ’em. Funny thing, all three items are related to Harrison Ford. Could that be a clue? Check with the Librarian.

  2. I want to thank all of you for making my evening. i never was so informed and so entertained by the responses to the question: “What in the box?” OK CTD, WHAT’s IN THE BOX? If you need a forklift driver, call me. ROFL

  3. There is no telling whats in the box. Someone used a discarded 105 mm anti-tank round box to pack something else completely and did not remark the box. Open it and find out.

  4. The box says 105 mm shells. 2 of them in case. First line
    Which milt. Site made them and whereecond line they were suppose to go. Second line.
    60 kilo. Third line

    Underneath if you turn the case over. It says in Hebrew. 2 S”H (new sheckels) for case return

    But i did appreciate the above answer above if found point toward Syria. Funny–

  5. SIR, I HAVE A CURRENT FFL AND A CURRENT EXPLOSIVES LIC, AND I AM A GAMBLER AND I WILL BUY IT UNOPENED AND UNSEEN.

  6. I think the box has been repurposed..

    I bet it’s 7.62x39mm that was actually manufactured in Bulgaria. I remember them selling this awhile back, I think.

  7. I dont know what’s in it but I will give you 10.00 dollars for it if you go halfs on shipping. lol

  8. It is a US M392 A2 recoiless rifle anti-tank round.
    Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot is what ADPS means.
    Clearly it is a box for this round and probably from Israel’s IDF, most likely from one of their wars in the early ’80’s.

    Bob

  9. I doubt they’re still in there, but it originally held 105 MM depleted uranium cannon rounds.

  10. It contains my order from last week . Go ahead and send it to me since I already paid for shiping. Thanks.

  11. Looks like a busket of unicorn horns, fairy dust, and dodo bird droppings. Seriously? Google is an amazing thing. Let’s try that next time.

  12. Maybe it’s the box were the government stored the Ark of the Covenant, that Indiana Jones found. I you open it don’t look at the light.

  13. That is a case of Tungston-Carbide SABOT’s!
    Around 1480 meters/sec muzzle velocity.
    For use against tanks and the like.

    Did I win them for giving you the correct answer?

    ?:^)-

  14. My wife stated the top line says 2- bullets 105 mm. The next lines had military codes and a catalog number. The last line stated 60 kilograms.

  15. 105mm Anti-Tank round. This shell is an electrically initiated, hyper-velocity, armor-piercing type with a discarding sabot, intended for use in 105mm guns against armored targets (APDS-T). Sounds like FUN to me!

  16. I think this is a case that is meant to hold 2 105mm Tungsten Carbide (Not DU) 105mm tank rounds.

  17. this round is a armoured piercing round designed and used by the british up to 1961 it was fired out of a m68 gun which has as a rotational ring to put a spin on the projectile and also contained a tracer in the velocite of this round is 4786 fps.I believe that this box is a isreali varient of this round.

  18. As most have figured out, this codes on the box are refering to 105mm anti-tank sabot rounds.
    If its actually contains them, how much are you going to sell them for? I almost out of ammo for my home-defence 105 and needed a new source!

  19. You have a box that contained 2 105mm tank rounds, they were tracer. If you could read Hebrew you would know that.

    They are for the Israeli M-60 or Super Sherman tanks with the L-68 105mm HV tank round. Israel does not have any Abrams. The Merkava uses the same 120mm smooth bore that the Abrams does. The box is for the 105mm tank round.

    The rounds were produced in 1974 and repacked in ’91 and used for training or “emergency” ie. if no other ammunition is available.

    Box probably contains clips imported earlier or parts. I’ll bet a sheckel it isn’t tank ammo.

    Jeff above knows what he is talking about.

  20. Description
    The 105 mm M392 and M392A2 APDS-T rounds are fixed, with the projectile assembly rigidly secured to the brass cartridge case.The armour-penetrating projectile consists of a sheathed tungsten-carbide core held in a sabot assembly. A plastic centring band is positioned on the outside diameter of the sabot at the forward end, while near the base of the sabot is a wide vulcanised-fibre drive band followed by a rubber obturator. A protruding assembly in the base of the penetrator houses an M13 tracer, which burns for at least 2.5 seconds after firing. The sabot is discarded after leaving the muzzle by a combination of setback, centrifugal and air-pressure forces.The 70:30 brass M115 or M115B1 cartridge case is loosely packed with M30 propellant, to be ignited by an L4A1 or L4A2 electrical primer on the M392 or by an electrical M80A1 primer on the M392A2. In both cases, the primer flash tube extends almost the entire length of the cartridge case. The case contains a laminar additive liner over the forward end of the propellant. Before loading, the primer is normally protected by a metal clip over the base of the cartridge case.The muzzle velocity is 1,479 m/s, and the maximum possible range is 36,745 m.The training round for the 105 mm M392 and M392A2 is the M724A1 TPDS-T. The M724A1 is also produced by Mecar SA of Belgium and by the Heliopolis Company for Chemical Industries of Egypt. In the US, the main producer of the 105 mm M724A1 TPDS-T

  21. It’s probably full of all those Injectible Atropine Ampules you “requisitioned” from those Israeli Gas Mask Kits that I bought from you guys a few years ago. Because, it would be just too ironic and upsetting for me to know that you guys get to have depleted uranium anti-tank rounds, and I can’t have 6 frickin’ shots of much-needed Atropine for when the SHTF. But, I’m not upset, or anything! :/

  22. I guess you could use a 105 for home defense. Any one who knows what their doung uses a 155 though. Can’t always count on a one shot stop with the little 105s.

  23. 105 mm Armour-Piercing Discarding-Sabot Tracer rounds… or an empty crate…Maybe Jimmy Hoffa…So let us know.

  24. what ever is in the cases that are strapped on top of it is whats in that bottom case. sry no anti tank shells

  25. It is dummy rounds for practice fire for the M1 rounds mentioned above.

    So when are you going to open them and see what is actually in there?

  26. Dave,WHEEEW! I’m reminded that with some people, if you ask them the time of day, they will tell you how to build a watch!

  27. I LOVE the way Sarah Connor’s mind works. Home Defense! Interpretively the “A-2” should mean it takes care of two A-holes at once! 🙂

  28. The box is definitely some sort of tank round. I doubt you actually have a tank round. My guess is it’s full of 5.56 ammunition…

  29. I think many people hit it with the 105mm Anti-tank rounds, boxed in “twos” because of the weight and handling. Having said that I agree with a few that think it is either an empty box, hence being on the bottom, OR it was loaded with IDF “slightly used” night vision devices that CTD bought from some unnamed source, delivered through some unknown pipeline, and priced “at or below market value”. But I also liked the suggestion that it is a box of “sanitary napkins”. If you were a tanker on the receiving end of one of the bad boys originally packed in this box then your remains would be cleaned up with a bunch of those products.

  30. Description: This is the Israeli version.
    The 105 mm M392 and M392A2 APDS-T rounds are fixed, with the projectile assembly rigidly secured to the brass cartridge case.The armour-penetrating projectile consists of a sheathed tungsten-carbide core held in a sabot assembly. A plastic centring band is positioned on the outside diameter of the sabot at the forward end, while near the base of the sabot is a wide vulcanised-fibre drive band followed by a rubber obturator. A protruding assembly in the base of the penetrator houses an M13 tracer, which burns for at least 2.5 seconds after firing. The sabot is discarded after leaving the muzzle by a combination of setback, centrifugal and air-pressure forces.The 70:30 brass M115 or M115B1 cartridge case is loosely packed with M30 propellant, to be ignited by an L4A1 or L4A2 electrical primer on the M392 or by an electrical M80A1 primer on the M392A2. In both cases, the primer flash tube extends almost the entire length of the cartridge case. The case contains a laminar additive liner over the forward end of the propellant. Before loading, the primer is normally protected by a metal clip over the base of the cartridge case.The muzzle velocity is 1,479 m/s, and the maximum possible range is 36,745 m.The training round for the 105 mm M392 and M392A2 is the M724A1 TPDS-T. The M724A1 is also produced by Mecar SA of Belgium and by the Heliopolis Company for Chemical Industries of Egypt. In the US, the main producer of the 105 mm M724A1 TPDS-T

  31. there is a lot of evidence to suggest that it is actually 105mm rounds with and isreali origin…therefore i must agree with my initial though of bulgarian water pistols, big ones for andre the giant.

  32. I’m late to the game in guessing the 105mm tank rounds, but that isn’t what is in the box. The box was just used to hold the mil surplus night vision goggles that CTD ordered.

  33. It looks like everyone else got it too! Now all you need is an Abrams MBT with the original 105 and your preppers kit will be complete!!

  34. Now that we identified the original contents, the question remains what is in there now. All of us resue containers. It would help to see the entire pallet to see what other stuff came with it. In the end we all like to treasure hunt so just open it up – Merry Christmas!

  35. This is from Jane’s: Looks like Israeli markings as below:

    Dave

    105 mm M393-series HEP-T cartridges (United States), Tank and anti-tank guns

    Development
    The 105 mm M393 High Explosive Plastic Tracer (HEP-T) series comprises three rounds:the M393A1 , standardised in 1965the M393A2 the M393A3 .They differ mainly in the type of Base Detonating (BD) fuze fitted, so the M393A1 has the M534, the M393A2 has the M578, and the M393A3 has the M578A1. The M393A1 also has slightly less explosive filling than the M393A2. These rounds may be regarded as general-purpose anti-armour high-explosive munitions.Small numbers of M393A2s have been sold out of the US stockpile, comprising 3,000 to Jordan in 1995, 5,000 to Israel in 2000 and 23,790 to Bahrain in 2001.The M393A3 has been chosen as one of the rounds for the 105 mm armed Mobile Gun System (MGS) variant of the US Stryker family. Based on the M393A2, the M393A3 incorporates components that meet current fuze requirements. A variety of contractor-developed solutions were possible, however, the US Army announced parameters in the first quarter of 2001 that were very specific. They required a metal-cartridge-case, granular-propellant, electrically-initiated-primer high-explosive projectile and impact-initiating fuze for the MGS ammunition. To replace in part the aged stockpile of M393A2 rounds, the US Army proposed spending USD6 million in Fiscal Year 2002 (FY02) for 1,000 rounds of the modified ammunition, but this was delayed, and it was not until July 2002 that the four preliminary contracts were awarded. Details of the proposals are provided below. Each preliminary contract called for the delivery of 40 service and 35 training rounds.In April 2003, the contract was awarded to

    Description
    The rounds of the 105 mm M393 HEP-T series are fixed, with the projectile rigidly secured to the brass or steel cartridge case by two crimping rings.The projectiles of the M393 family have a relatively short ogive and are encircled by two copper drive bands. The projectiles have thin-walled steel bodies filled with Composition A-3 (RDX/wax 91/9). The M393A1 contains 2.86 kg, and the M393A2 and the M393A3 contain 2.994 kg. On impact with a target, the explosive filling has time to spread over the surface of the target before the BD fuze functions. The resultant overpressure causes shock waves to form throughout the target, close to the detonation, causing internal spalling and damage; there are also secondary fragmentation effects. The BD fuze on the M393A1 is the M534, while the M393A2 has the M578 and the M393A3 has the M578A1. The projectile base also has a protruding housing for an M12 tracer that is directly ignited by the flash tube of the M86 primer, as it extends the full length of the cartridge case. The M12 tracer burns for a minimum of 2.5 seconds.The cartridge case used with the M393 series may be either the 70:30 brass M150 or the steel M150B1, both having an M86 electrical primer in the base. The propellant is a nominal 2.68 kg of single-base M1 packed in a bag. Before loading, the primer is normally protected by a metal clip over the base of the cartridge case.The muzzle velocity for the 105

    The complete article appears in the following publication:

    Publication Title

    Jane’s Ammunition Handbook

    Publication date

    Mar 26, 2012

    Section

    Tank and anti-tank guns

    Publication synopsis

    Jane’s Ammunition Handbook is the authoritative reference guide for ammunition in service, in stock and under development. This comprehensive resource provides informed analysis of product developments and commercial history, as well as technical descriptions, specifications and illustrations for ease of recognition. With Jane’s Ammunition Handbook, your procurement and research needs are also supported through the original manufacturers’ details and expert reference tables to confidently confirm small arms identification.

    Key contents include

    • Small arms
    • Projected grenades
    • Riot Control
    • Cannon
    • Tank and Anti-Tank
    • Naval and Coast Defence
    • Mortars
    • Field Artillery and Rockets
    • Fuses
    • Cartridge Identification Tables

    Different sections provide in-depth detail covering

    • Analysis
    • Artillery Rockets
    • Cannon
    • Cannon – 20 To 30 Mm Cannon
    • Cannon – 35 To 57 Mm Cannon
    • Contractors
    • Field Artillery
    • Fuzes – Artillery Fuzes
    • Fuzes – Mortar Fuzes – Impact Fuzes
    • Fuzes – Mortar Fuzes – Introduction
    • Fuzes – Mortar Fuzes – Proximity Fuzes
    • Fuzes – Mortar Fuzes – Time Fuzes
    • Fuzes – Rocket Fuzes
    • Glossary
    • Identification Of Small Arms Ammunition
    • Identification Of Small Arms Ammunition – Bullet Colour Codes
    • Identification Of Small Arms Ammunition – Cartridge Headstamps
    • Modular Propellant Charge Systems
    • Mortars – 100 Mm Mortars
    • Mortars – 107 Mm Mortars
    • Mortars – 120 Mm Mortars
    • Mortars – 160 Mm Mortars
    • Mortars – 240 Mm Mortars
    • Mortars – 50 Mm Mortars
    • Mortars – 51 Mm Mortars
    • Mortars – 52 Mm Mortars
    • Mortars – 60 Mm Mortars
    • Mortars – 81 Mm Mortars
    • Mortars – 82 Mm Mortars
    • Mortars – 98 Mm Mortars
    • Naval And Coastal Defence Guns
    • Projected Grenades – Fin-Stabilised Grenades – He And Heat Grenades
    • Projected Grenades – Fin-Stabilised Grenades – Other Grenades
    • Projected Grenades – Spin-Stabilised Grenades – 40 Mm High-Explosive Grenades
    • Projected Grenades – Spin-Stabilised Grenades – 40 Mm Pyrotechnic Grenades
    • Projected Grenades – Spin-Stabilised Grenades – 40 Mm Riot Control Grenades – Impact
    • Projected Grenades – Spin-Stabilised Grenades – 40 Mm Riot Control Grenades – Irritant
    • Projected Grenades – Spin-Stabilised Grenades – 40 Mm Screening Smoke Grenades
    • Projected Grenades – Spin-Stabilised Grenades – 40 Mm Target Practice Grenades
    • Projected Grenades – Spin-Stabilised Grenades – Introduction
    • Projected Grenades – Spin-Stabilised Grenades – Less Than 40 Mm Grenades
    • Riot Control Ammunition
    • Riot Control Ammunition – 37/38 Mm Rounds
    • Riot Control Ammunition – 40 Mm Rounds
    • Riot Control Ammunition – Combined And Miscellaneous Rounds
    • Riot Control Ammunition – Shotgun Rounds
    • Small Arms – Pistols, Smgs And Pdws
    • Small Arms – Rifles And Mgs
    • Small Arms – Shotguns
    • Small Arms – Special-Purpose And Other Weapons
    • Tank And Anti-Tank Guns

  36. Tungsten carbide “Sabot” Anti Tank or Tank Like Targets… 41LBS, 33 inch max, “Storage temp -85 to 145” for no more than 4 hours per day…

  37. I have no idea what that says, looks like it’s written in Hebrew or Russian. Guys, when you get in a box and the label is in any foreign language, you should put a small tag on it in English, or whatever language the majority of your workers speak and can read. My Dad spoke German, but couldn’t read a word of it. He learned to speak, read and write English in school.

  38. British-built L36A1 Armour-Piercing Discarding-Sabot Tracer (APDS-T) , which was then sold to the US and standardised by the US Army in 1961 as the M392. The M392A2 is virtually the same round in every respect other than the use of standard US components, such as the primer and tracer.

  39. The M392 M2 are penetrating tungsten carbide sabot 105mm rounds. No telling what’s actually IN the crate NOW though.

  40. The projectile consists of a sheathed tungsten carbide core with tracer and a sabot. The core, which is the armor-piercing element, is carried within the sheath with the sabot assembled on the exterior surface. A plastic band is positioned on the outside diameter of the sabot at the forward end. A fiber rotating band and a rubber obturator are assembled on the outside diameter near the base of the sabot. The igniter tube of the electric primer extends almost the entire length of the propellant loosely packed in the cartridge case. The M392 is of United Kingdom manufacture and bears the U.K. designation of L36A1. The M392 is fitted with U.K. L4A1 or L4A2 primer.
    Use:
    This cartridge is a hypervelocity armorpiercing type with discarding sabot, intended for use in 105mm guns against armored targets.
    Functioning:
    The electrically initiated primer ignites the propelling charge. Gases produced by the burning propellant propel the projectile from the gun and ignite the tracer which burns for a minimum of 2.5 seconds. Setback, centrifugal, and air pressure forces cause the sabot to discard upon leaving the gun tube. The sheathed core is spin stabilized and penetrates the target solely by kinetic energy.
    Munition Components:
    Cartridge case M115, M115B1
    Propelling charge M30 (T36)
    Tracer M13

  41. Definitely the box label describes anti-tank rounds. what’s inside, I am guessing air and dust since you probably shouldn’t have the contents in your warehouse.

  42. It’s a 105mm Armor-Piercing Discarding Sabot with Tracer (APDS-T)for the M68 main gun on the American M60 Tanks and the first version of the M1 Abrams Tank.It can also be fired from the Israeli Merkava Mk 1 and Mk 2 MBT. SO I’m assuming that The box you have is or was originally designated for the Israeli Markeva Mk 1 or Mk 2 MBT.

  43. Anti tank round boxes from DRMO. If you have the rounds put them on clearance I’ll buy some.

  44. We used to fire these all the time in the mid 80s. I was a crewman on a M60A3 tank, and this appears to be a box containing two (2) 105mm AP SABOT rounds (*NOT* depleted uranium, as some have suggested – that would be the FIN SABOT M774, this is made from tungsten carbide). Assuming these are spent brass, they can make great lamps or umbrella stands. Your pick.

  45. its the empty tubs for the 2.M392A2 is a 105mm APDS-T round like the empty mortar tubes you always sale

  46. No Jeff, the M1 Abrahms has a 105mm main gun. It is the M1A1 that has the 120mm smooth bore main gun.
    But yes, the M392/A2 is the SABOT anti-tank round. I’ve handled quite a few.

  47. What the box says and what it still contains may be two entirely seperate things so I’m going to go with: Old brown wax paper, a useless instruction manual, 3 spiders and some foam.

  48. ATF just called. They want to know where you got a couple of Israeli made 105mm armor piercing sabot rounds. I told them I’ve never seen you before in my life. Maybe you should take that box fishing so it can fall out of your boat.

  49. For Squirrel_Assasin: The first M-1 Abrams tanks were armed with the same 105 as the M-60 tanks. The upgrading to a 120 mm was still in the air as the Army was still testing to see if the barrel should be rifled or smooth-bore.
    I agree with other comments that it is two rounds of 105mm APDS. The number 105 at the top is a give-away on caliber and the date of December 18, 1991 would be about right for shipment to Israel (the writing appears to be Hebrew rather than Asian).

  50. OK, this is going to be really rusty and incomplete but here goes. Hebrew reads from right to left, so starting from the 2:
    2 kadurim (rounds) 105 m”m
    directly under the 105 it says NOTEV which means tracer
    next to 74864537 it says KOD which, yes, means code
    lower right corner says BeROTO : 60 k”g which is GROSS 60 kilograms
    the long word above the 60 says KATALOGI obviously catalog
    I wish I could get the word to the left of m”m but that’s all I can really make out for sure.

  51. It is a transmutating hypergolic neutron infused un-obtainium generator. And from the size of the case it is most likely the Mark VII Mod 0 Spockterian Model, and not the Oglefield III unit. I am sure of it.

  52. It is a pair of 105mm shells, APDS-T (Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot-Tracer), possibly Israeli made, for the M-68 (British L-7 gun) main gun on the M-60 series and M-48 A-5 tanks.

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Your discussions, feedback and comments are welcome here as long as they are relevant and insightful. Please be respectful of others. We reserve the right to edit as appropriate, delete profane, harassing, abusive and spam comments or posts, and block repeat offenders. All comments are held for moderation and will appear after approval.

Discover more from The Shooter's Log

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading