Hi-Point’s Affordable .45 Caliber Carbine

Hi Point Carbine right side

The Hi-Point carbine is a credible home defender, a good recreational shooter, and in a pinch, it will do for small game at modest range. I was surprised at the low price and by the performance of this firearm. It isn’t a tack driver at 100 yards, but then few firearms firing a pistol caliber cartridge are. The economical Hi-Point carbine we are discussing retails for less than $300.

A young man on a budget who wished to have a firearm with which to defend his home and family purchased the carbine illustrated. The rifle is also intended for recreational shooting—something he enjoys. The caliber was easy. His father-in-law is a 1911 man and his brother-in-law handloads .45 ACP, so ammunition would not be a problem. A bright young man! In addition, for personal defense, the .45 ACP is a preferred cartridge.

The .45 ACP demonstrates low pressure and little muzzle signature. Wound ballistics are excellent. If you are looking at the Hi-Point, it is also available in 9mm Luger and .40 Smith and Wesson. The 9mm isn’t a bad choice. The 9mm gets a considerable upgrade in velocity from the Hi-Point’s 17.5 barrel, giving the 9mm a velocity nipping at the heels of a .357 Magnum. Likewise, the .40 becomes a 10mm in the carbine barrel. When you consider the power of .357 Magnum and the 10mm handguns, having that approximate level of power in a carbine with much better practical accuracy makes a lot of sense in a home defense firearm. That being said we will stick to the .45 ACP.

The Hi-Point is a blowback-operated carbine. There is no recoiling barrel and no gas operation. The bolt simply recoils to the rear. This isn’t the firearm to fire +P loads. The Hi-Point features a cocking handle that is used to rack the bolt and load the chamber. The bolt holds open on the last shot. Magazine capacity is nine rounds.

Hi Point Carbine buttstock with magazines attached
Magazines may be carried on the buttstock for rapid deployment.

The sights are good examples of carbine sights, adjustable for both windage and elevation. A metal guard protects the rear sight—a nice touch for a hard-use carbine. The front sight is a hooded post. I like several touches about the Hi-Point. The stock has a recoil buffer built into it, making it among the most pleasant carbines in a pistol caliber to fire. Recoil isn’t sharp.

As a home defense firearm for a slightly built individual or female shooter, the Hi-Point has much merit. Brawny shooters will like it too. By the time I had a chance to test the carbine, the owner had fired 200 trouble-free rounds. The dual magazine rack is handy, and his father-in-law added a SIG laser light. The magazines are well made and feature a bumper pad on the base for positive insertion into the magazine well.

I began my test by lubricating the Hi-Point. A few drops on the bolt were all that was needed. Next, I loaded three magazines with Winchester M1911 230-grain FMJ. I kept the chamber empty until I was ready to fire. This is the recommended ready mode for this or any other carbine kept ready for home defense. There is a manual safety for use on the range or when hunting when the chamber is loaded. I racked the slide and began firing at man-size targets at 7, 10 and 15 yards.

The Hi-Point carbine is surprisingly controllable. Just hang the front sight on the target and keep pressing the trigger. The trigger isn’t match grade, but reset is rapid enough, and it breaks clean enough for personal defense work to 50 yards or a little beyond. When firing the Hi-Point, the grip proved comfortable and fit my hand well. The grip is textured for good purchase when handling the carbine, a nice touch on an economy gun.

Hi Point Carbine with light attached
The Hi-Point has plenty of room for mounting a combat light.

I found the carbine sighted a little high for my eyes, but did not wish to change the sights. As it turns out, this young man had been firing at targets on the open range at about 75 yards, and sight regulation was good. I was firing at 25 yards. The adjustable sights are nice to have. The Hi-Point fired 50 rounds of Winchester 230-grain JHP without a single failure to feed, chamber, fire or eject. The carbine is enjoyable to fire. A firearm that is controllable, economical, and accurate is always encouraging for those that wish to master the type for personal defense.

As for accuracy, the carbine did well in offhand fire firing at man-size targets to 50 yards. I tested the Hi-Point carbine for accuracy from a solid bench rest at 25 yards. I added the Winchester USA 230-grain JHP. This an affordable loading with good expansion and penetration, and it performed well from the Hi-Point carbine. At 25 yards, the Hi-Point printed 5-shot groups of 2.5 to 3 inches. At the typical home defense range of 5 to 10 yards, all shots will go into practically one hole. The .45 ACP cartridge is effective because of frontal diameter and bullet mass, but a 50 to 100 feet-per-second super charge from the carbines 7.5-inch barrel doesn’t hurt. The Hi-Point is light enough at 7 pounds, handles quickly, and requires modest familiarization to get up and running well. As a home defense firearm, this carbine is superior to any handgun. As a beginner’s gun or for anyone wishing to acquire serious protection on the cheap, the Hi-Point .45 carbine has much value.

Are you a carbine fan? What about Hi-Point’s carbine? Share your thoughts and experiences in the comment section.

About the Author:

Bob Campbell

Bob Campbell’s primary qualification is a lifelong love of firearms, writing, and scholarship. He holds a degree in Criminal Justice but is an autodidact in matters important to his readers. Campbell considers unarmed skills the first line of defense and the handgun the last resort. (He gets it honest- his uncle Jerry Campbell is in the Boxer’s Hall of Fame.)

Campbell has authored well over 6,000 articles columns and reviews and fourteen books for major publishers including Gun Digest, Skyhorse and Paladin Press. Campbell served as a peace officer and security professional and has made hundreds of arrests and been injured on the job more than once.

He has written curriculum on the university level, served as a lead missionary, and is desperately in love with Joyce. He is training his grandchildren not to be snowflakes. At an age when many are thinking of retirement, Bob is working a 60-hour week and awaits being taken up in a whirlwind many years in the future.

Published in
Black Belt Magazine
Combat Handguns
Rifle Magazine
Gun Digest
Gun World
Tactical World
SWAT Magazine
American Gunsmith
Gun Tests Magazine
Women and Guns
The Journal Voice of American Law Enforcement
Police Magazine
Law Enforcement Technology
The Firearms Instructor
Tactical World
Concealed Carry Magazine
Concealed Carry Handguns

Books published

Holsters for Combat and Concealed Carry
The 1911 Automatic Pistol
The Handgun in Personal Defense
The Illustrated Guide to Handgun Skills
The Hunter and the Hunted
The Gun Digest Book of Personal Defense
The Gun Digest Book of the 1911
The Gun Digest Book of the 1911 second edition
Dealing with the Great Ammunition Shortage
Commando Gunsmithing
The Ultimate Book of Gunfighting
Preppers Guide to Rifles
Preppers Guide to Shotguns
The Accurate Handgun
The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt!'s blog, The Shooter's Log, is to provide information—not opinions—to our customers and the shooting community. We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. The information provided here does not represent the views of Cheaper Than Dirt!

Comments (199)

  1. I gave myself the Hi-Point carbine in 10mm as a Christmas present and let me tell you I have not been disappointed, not one little bit. This little gun handles all 10mm ammo i have thrown at it(6 different manufacturers and 10 different bullet weights)and still performs like a champ. I guess i was a bit jaded from all the people that put down the Hi-Point, but let me tell you son, it runs like a scalded cat! Accurate as hell out to 50 yards, not a single hiccup from the ammo, it eats and digests everything i have loaded in it. From now on popular opinion won’t matter to me about a certain weapon until i try one for myself. My only complaint about this carbine is that it is limited to 10 round mags for now, hopefully someone steps up and makes a higher capacity magazine for it. Not a bad little companion for my XDM10mm pistol.

  2. Sounds to me like you probably installed the charging handle backwards as it is very easy to do. I know because I did it! The instructions are very poor and is not an intuitive process. If there is any scraping of the finish on receiver, or the widest diameter of the charging handle is installed on the inside rather than outside, as in tapered end on outside position, then it’s wrong! Hopefully you did not make this easy mistake and I am wrong. In any case I am just trying to help. Good luck.

  3. Jury is still out – I bought a 4595 about 3 weeks ago. After about 50 rounds, the charging bolt stuck towards the rear position rendering the carbine totally jammed. I brought it back to the gunshop where I purchased it, who managed to unjam it. A small piece of metal filing seemed to be the problem. After thoroughly cleaning/lubricating I returned to the range in a day or so. After about 50 rounds, the same bolt jamming problem occurred. So I returned to the gunshop so they could return the carbine to their supplier. No word yet on the response, but I still hope the fix results in a more reliable firearm. At this point, I certainly can not trust it for home defense.

  4. @ ss1.

    DON’T USE, the 460 Rowland in the Hi-Point 9545. According to Hi-Point, .45ACP, .45ACP+P and .45ACP/Auto Rim’s can be used SAFELY in the Carbine. But, the .45ACP/Super, .45ACP/Magnum and the 460 Rowland are deemed NOT SAFE in the Carbine, the 460 Rowland is considered a “Wildcat/Magnum” Round. Sorry for the Bad Advice. SEC…

    1. @Secundius:

      No problem with 460 Rowland advice. I own a Hi-Point 9mm Carbine, and have decided to NOT switch to 45 ACP because of 2 other recent gun purchases.

      I sent you a bigger reply on Animal Prints.

    2. Agree i would not try any plus p ammo in these clunkers and they are clunkers to me you get what you pay for with firearms just like a car you go cheap expect probs after actually holding the one i looked at in 45 acp i think these are good for the 9mm they came out for only .Any other round with higher pressures is a risk in these i think JMHO after 40 yrs of working on firearms . Y ou may get the occasisdonal good 1 but most will be exactly what you paid for= a cheap i hope it does not blow up pos in my hands . i would stick to ther 9mm one only and it is all about money HI-POINT of course will tell you yes they are solid and great but how many other hi points have been said same about were junk firearms .like optics you buy a 50.00 scope and put it on a high powered rifle expect 50.00 results with it . This is 2015 all about the money now anything to sell. Want quality spend the extra or save up till ya can or put it on layaway or credit dont go cheap it never pays off with firearms ., ammo,optics ,w/e.

    3. @Damian:

      Hi Damian, how are you? My 44 magnum barrel arrived today and I can’t wait to try it out.

      You are so right about those scopes. I have wasted so much time and money with cheap gun show Chinese scopes. HOWEVER, I’m still not going to rush out and pay extreme amounts either. The way I do it now is if you can find scopes on-line that many people have reviewed positively, that method works for me.

    4. @ ss1
      Cool cant wait till you try it out .Another thing i wanted to mention up until 2 yrs ago Ohio was a slug gun (shotguns only with rifled slug barrels ) or straight walled case pistol hunting state along with smoke poles (muzzleloaders ) They just started letting us use straight walled rifles for hunting but as well as any pistol round it must be a straight walled case no bottlenecks or rimmed semi auto pistols rounds are legal hunting gear in Ohio so you CANNOT hunt with the 50 AE round here where i live in any firearm at all that is why i now use an H&R break open 45.70 to hunt whitetail and the desert eagle on occassion my true love is crossbow hunting as my military wounds do not allow me the use of a compound bow anymore just cannot hold it at full draw at times to make the shot i use a barnett penetrater 350 fps cross bow 175lb now for most all my hunting of deer or turkey and usually tag out before gun season even comes around which in ohio is a 7 day season only . So the 50 AE cannot be used to hunt deer here at anytime without risk of big fines and possible jail and 5 yr loss of hunting rights .LMK how you like the 44 mag compared and get a good scope when you can for long range( long eye relief) like i said cheap scopes will not stand up to the recoil long . Save up for the leupold just over 200.00 and change well worth the money never fail ya .Good luck my man i think you will agree once you have seen the diff of why i chose the 44 over the 50.

  5. @ ss1 & Mikial, or anyone else in Ear Shot.

    I already Posted one one the 9-mil Website, but here goes. As “ss1” and me were tying up the “Animal Print, Desert Eagle” website last night. I came across a “+P+” Cartridge for the .45ACP (11.48×22.8). It’s called the 460 Roland, a .451-caliber (11.5×24.3) cartridge designed for use in the .45ACP Pistol. It’s exactly the same size as the .45ACP @ 32.4mm in length. As with the 9-mil Posting, it’s like comparing a “Golf Club” with a “Baseball Bat” in stopping power. Worth considering, Sorry “Mikial” I couldn’t post it before your Fredericksburg Convention Center Gun Show for this weekend. SEC…

  6. One correction: The Hi Point 4595 is, yes IS, rated for +P ammo.

    “All Hi-Point carbines are +P rated to accept all factory ammunition” is in bold red text right on the manufacturer’s website. (But then again I choose to disregard the manual’s bogus/outdated disclaimer against using ProMag magazines which work fine for me and actually do have the correct last-round hold open follower design.)

    It is also well reported these carbines eat any manner of ammo, hot +P, steel case, aluminum, TNJ… (especially the 9mm carbine but I don’t want to get off topic.) This is a selling point over more refined PCC’s which can be finicky with various ammunition.

  7. My cousin just got one of these in 9mm. I have a Beretta CX4 Storm in .40 which I’ve had for a while. We shot them both this past weekend to see how they compared. Here are my thoughts on it. I know this is about the Hi-Point but I will be comparing it to the CX4 as I have one and a lot of people are familiar with it.

    I personally love how the CX4 fits in my hand, like a glove. I didn’t care for how bulky the Hi-Point felt but will say weight wise they were about the same. Being as bulky as it is, I was dumbfounded to see the Hi-Point comes with a single stack mag. A double stack would fit in that huge grip just fine. While I didn’t care for the feel of the H-P I would say accuracy was pretty good. Note my cousin put a Bushnell red dot on it which I am sure helped. It was pretty close in accuracy to my CX4, but I was also shooting my CX4 with iron sights. If I had one gripe with my Beretta, it would be the recoil. It kicks pretty good which I never understood being a carbine firing pistol rounds. His is just a 9mm but recoil was pretty low, I could put a lot more rounds down range with his Hi-Point than I would care to with the CX4. Calibers being equal this may be a different story but I can’t say, so take what you will from it. Overall I don’t think the Hi-Point was a bad deal. He ordered it brand new for about 1/3 the cost of what I paid for the CX4. For the cost I think the Hi-Point did well. Accuracy and weight weren’t bad, looks are subjective, only things I didn’t like were the low capacity and bulky feel of the grip. That being said if I was on a budget I would consider it. I still would never get one of their pistols just because of feel, but the carbine doesn’t seem so bad. I think that is mainly because I expect the carbine to be bulky to a point, and it doesn’t feel overly bulky or ugly as their pistols are. If you have the money, the CX4 is a great gun. If you are on a budget though and are looking for something like this, I would definitely check out the Hi-Point. If it feels ok in your hands, I think you’ll be happy as the shooting side of it seems to be pretty good.

  8. I bought the 4095 as I carry 40 cal Glock sidearms. It is very fun to shoot and is accurate enough out to 100 yards. I like it, and in CA you even get to pay extra $ for a freakin bullet button! How special is that?

  9. Buy a cheap carbine and that’s what you get…a cheap carbine. I’ll bet my Thompson 45 will still be plugging away long after a Hi Point would be in the junk pile. Hi Point is providing some inexpensive fun shooting, but if you’re looking for something of quality that will last, you’ll have to dig a bit deeper into your wallet.

  10. Moderator!
    hopefully the Moderator! will see that this thread has taken a turn for the worst and then the Moderator! will close it. I know the Moderator! does not want the rest of us to have to keep listening to you guys bitch at each other. about bull sh*t.

    Moderator! what do you say?

    1. @Vector16

      I hope the CTD MODERATOR will also look at the Vector16 September 6, 2015 at 9:06 pm MOTEL6 post, and ban your email address and your IP address.

      Maybe you should take your posts to a more appropriate place, like adultfriendfinder or trailertrash dot com.

      Ya you’re right big boy. This forum DID take a turn for the worst with the VECTOR16 MOTEL6 POST!!

    2. SS1

      That’s cause you are arguing like little a 7th grade boy trying to get a date with a 7th grade girl in a pink dress and a pony tail.

      In case you did not know guns are for big kids, little boy.

    1. Nope–Hi Point doesn’t make “Hi Cap” Mags–I asked why and their Rep in a ’roundabout’ way said the company was founded around the time of the Clinton AWB with Mag Limits etc. and just never changed their mag production after sunset of the stupid bills (I’m guessing so they can easily market their product in outside the U.S. like CA., NY, NJ for example…

    2. From what I hear nothing work well,except the stock mags. I wish Hi-Point would switch to Glock 9mm mags. I would love one of those 30 rounders. Low mag capacity is one of the things that stop me from buying a Hi-Point.

    3. @ djjr51.

      Did some digging, but on Hi-Point Firearms Forum of 2010. Someone with the Handle “CoyoteUGLY”, claims that the 25-Round Pro-Mag Drum Magazine 1911 will fit the Hi-Point 4595…

    4. I will have to see if the drum requires “manual fitting” in order to make it work (I would think so). Heck, I’ve had to file down some Saiga and Vepr 12 mags to get them to fit so it’s far from unusual (a bitch…yes to be sure).

  11. Wow guys, this is about a HiPoint .45
    Way to hijack a thread.
    I had a 9mm carbine and lived it.
    However, it is made of inferior quality parts to keep the price down. My buddy dropped it at the range and the front sight broke off.
    Warranty is great, but I wouldn’t trust it for home defense. Great pinker is all


    1. @ Phil varilone.

      The Hi-Point .45ACP Pistol and Carbine Magazines are Interchangeable with each other and with Manufactured Hi-Point Magazines (ProMag), but NOT with any other Manufacturer Gun Models of the same Caliber…

  13. Why don’t you guys swap phone numbers? That way the rest of the world won’t have to be a party to your awesomeness.

  14. they should have made the rifle to accept either Glock or 1911 Magazines, Also the flash hider on the front of the barrel costs extra. Does not come on the stock model.

  15. they must have gotten a special price, because mine was 500 dollars at a Gun Show, 2 years ago. Also a carbine rifle, with a magazine capacity of only 7 rounds. LAME

    1. Academy Sports is selling below or real close to $300. Gun shop have turned into high dollar shopping.

  16. I have this in 40 caliber. It’s an fantastic little firearm. Fun to shoot at the range, will shoot with good accuracy at 100 yards and I have not had a problem with it after firing some where over 2000 rounds of US made ammo through it. I did have one stove pipe with a 10 round clip of foreign ammo that a friend suggested I try with that load accuracy dropped way off . The weapon is fine with good US ammo of all types. I have it for home protection and enjoyable range shooting.

  17. lol oook ,um if i hit reply directly under their post should not take an einstien to figure out who i am addressing i would think it is common sense if i hit reply under their post i am typing to them but i guess not all can figure that out but i had enough of you guys on this subject anyhow it is you’re money spend it wisely or stupidly makes no diff to me man. I just try n offer common sense advice but you need to be responding to people that have common sense seems the world is extremely lacking in just plain ol common sense anymore and everything must be poiliticaly correct or you are the crazy 1 anymore hagd. I am done with this grapevine that has went wayyy off the topic at hand anyhow.

    1. @Damian:

      If you really are done, just keep your CTD notifier on so I can let you know how my Desert Eagle is working with the 44 magnum barrel when I buy it. I’m forcing myself to wait to buy it AFTER I sell 2 guns, because I procrastinate selling guns that I no longer want.

      Also, good luck with your military 50 caliber idea. I think if you make it a tiny bit longer than a 45 ACP case, it will pack more punch but still be controllable. It’s just my hunch.

    2. should not take an einstien to figure out who i am addressing****considering your remarkable ability with syntax and grammar you’re no ” einstien” yourself….. dunce.

    3. Well not going to go into why and how my grammer or typing has dominished as it has that is another long story but t/y Iraq all i can say on that 1. lucky to be typing or seeing anything at all i do my best i can now .Again i see a lack of common sense out of you sir who was not even in this discussion but has to throw his sucker punch into fray bet you are from GUNBOARDS forum lol,another forum full of total morons i made look like idiots in end .

  18. Obviously the Author or this article has not checked the price of .45 ACP Ammo lately…

    If Hi-Point wants to impress someone, how about they develop a .357 mag/38 Spl or even a .44 Mag Carbine with extended magazine capability and lets keep the weight under 6 pounds and the price under $300.00….While they are at it. drill and tap the receiver for scope mounts….

    THAT….would make for an interesting home defense/plinker/hunting platform….Cheap to shoot too…Especially for us Handloaders

    1. @Me:

      I liked your idea about Hi-Point adopting 357 magnum and 44 magnum, but Tom is correct. They are more expensive than 45 acp. Just check CTD.

      The other thing that went through my mind on your idea is maybe Hi-Point can’t use magnum calibers in their design that makes the guns so cheap to buy. Like technical engineering reasons. I’m just guessing.

    2. Anybody desperate and/or dumb enough to buy ammo from CTD deserves to get screwed….

      The last time I purchased Factory Ammo for anything, A box of (20) 308 Winchester 150 grn PP’s was about $8.00. And at the time I thought THAT was nutz….You could get it on sale at the Coast to Coast Hardware Store for $6.00 a box. A box of 100 Bullets cost around $4.00. A pound of IMR4895 was $6.00. An 8lb Keg was $35.00 and you could buy it in “bulk” from the Government for $3.00 a pound as long as you bought 30 lbs. at a time. We used to get half a dozen guys together and go in on the 30 lb. Keg and then divvy it up. Primers were 3 cents apiece. You could order used M-16’s (converted to semi automatic) from Shotgun News for $79.99….And people generally sneered at them because they were made out of plastic…You could go out to the Gun Range and pick up all the used brass you could carry for nothing…..

      I don’t know how old you are but I’ve loading my own ammo for about 35 years.. I bought my first press Brand New from Pacific in 1980. Most of my Dies and reloading equipment is Pacific as well.

    3. If they can build them to take a .357 Sig, they can build them to take .357 Mag.. Remember this is a strike fired blow back weapon…It’s a question of spending the extra money to use a higher grade the metal in the receiver, springs and bolt carriers. (hardened steel as opposed to the heavy iron they currently use.) Hardened Steel is lighter, stronger and more durable. It’s also more expensive… In other words, They are making so much money selling these “Saturday night special thug guns* to Jerry Springer Rednecks & Thug Wannabees, why should they bother to try and improve the cash turd they are currently getting rich on? Which goes back to my original high point…Get it?

    4. @Me:

      Wow you’re really on fire tonight aren’t you 🙂

      Yes you’re probably correct on the higher grade metal. I was thinking along those lines but didn’t put it into detailed specifics.

      But the cheap Hi-Point carbine I own does serve a unique purpose and have a unique advantage over my other guns. The trick is to know when to use it. One other advantage I failed to mention…..ZERO muzzle rise……you stay on target effortlessly.

      Now, as far as your Jerry Springer and Thug Wannabes categories go, here’s another one to add……..People needing Anger Management because they can’t afford anything better. 😛

    5. There always has to be one detractor like you for every comment. As far as .45acp price goes, start reloading, you’ll save about 68% last time I figured it out, and yes, you can find powder and primers and bullets, before you start whining about that. If you don’t like a firearm go to their website, click on “contact us” and let them know why. They read these and will probably thank you because they want to sell more guns.
      Stay Safe

    6. T/Y Kurt been saying that for days now start reloading you will not regret it unless you make stupid mistakes while loading follow the data ,use good components you make better and way more cheaper ammo than you could ever buy in most calibers . In answer to the ones tired of seeing it i agree i said let it go days ago but sec &SS1 wanna try and team up on me over my preferences of calibers and platforms . I did try and help the guy with a brake for his ak pistol but he got ticked off over my dislike and the view of total pure non practicality in real world of the 50 AE DE pistol .The 44 DE will outshoot them in all but a very big guys hands and at much further range with more rounds in my mags than the 50 cal could ever be useful at, i can hit the steel at 200 yards when i throw the pistol scope on my 44 mag upper rail on my mk XIX DE in 44 magnum. That 50 could never do that .not the 50 AE round. SSGT is out of this 1 till i buy the HI PoINT 45 acp CARBINE THIS THREAD WAS ABOUT .

    7. @Damian:

      If you check on my “September 6, 2015 at 2:57 pm” post, I was saying goodbye to you after you threatened to leave the forum, and I was saying keep your notifier on because when I buy the 44 magnum DE barrel, I’m going to give you my honest feedback on it. The “September 6, 2015 at 2:57 pm” message got posted this morning because I misspelled my email address again, and when you do that it has to be approved by CTD, so it got delayed 1 day.

      I BELIEVE YOU about long range capabilities with the DE 44 magnum, and I’m excited about testing this. I’m excited about learning to switch barrels quickly and easily, and using both the 50AE and the 44 magnum.

      Here’s something I want you to think about. In your passion for 44 magnum, and also 458 Socom, you used long range shooting as your foundation. Some people, like me, don’t think about long range for every weapon. When I think of 50AE and 50 Beowulf, I think about SHORT RANGE POWER. I have other guns that can shoot well at 200 yards.

      Thank you again for your advice on the muzzle brake and the crush washer. When you told me about the crush washer, I realized that the 1st gunsmith made a huge mistake. I have already called my 2nd gunsmith, and I’ll be taking my M92 there next week after they clear their backlog.

      Damian, I’m really happy you showed up on this forum. I get so frickin bored at 95% of everyone here fearing Obama and all the anti-government paranoia, and you came on board and talked about the things I wanted to talk about.

      As far as the Hi-Point 45 ACP topic goes, this forum went off topic very early on, and yes I was part of it. CTD COULD EASILY HELP THIS SITUATION IF THEY SENT OUT A TOPIC/ARTICLE CALLED “GENERAL DISCUSSION FORUM”. I’m happy this forum went off topic, because it seriously helped me with current and future guns in my collection.

    8. I wouldn’t exactly call my comment a “rant”….More an opinion. Which for the record, I was invited to give by the people than run this Site.

      There’s always some fanboy like you that feels the need to step on someone else’s opinion or comment and pretend they know what they are talking about.

      If you had actually read the post , you would have noticed I said “Especially for Us Hand loaders”. Operative word there being “US”… I probably load more ammo in a month than most people do in a year.. I am keenly aware of the price of reloading components. Especially over the last few years. Bullet & Powder prices have literally doubled.

      Point of fact, Reloaded 38spl. Ammo is about half the price of .45 ACP, reloaded. If you pour your own bullets, it less than that… .357 & .44 Mag are about even. The difference in powder charges is nominal. If you are one of the unfortunate Masses that cannot or do not reload, you have my sympathies. Factory Ammo prices are ridiculous and stupid. The only thing stupider are the people paying retail prices for it.

      Point of fact… Hi-Point Firearms have lead the field in cheap throw away firearms for a couple of decades now. My point was that the calibers they offer this so called “carbine” (a carbine with a 9 shot magazine)? Really? For crying out loud, my 92F Beretta has a 18 round Clip on it… These are no good for anything beyond punching holes in paper or people. AKA…Wasting money.. For hunting or sporting purposes they are less than worthless. If Hi-Point wanted to “up their game” a bit. Try to offer a decent version of this POS.. Building their cheap throw away firearms in a couple of more adaptable and proficient calibers can’t be a bad idea.. The .357 & .44 Mag are ideally suited to short action firearms. They both pack plenty of punch for hunting everything from woodchucks up to Deer. Especially at close quarters. They both make EXTREMELY proficient Home Defense Calibers, and the .357 can do double duty as a .38 spl “plinker/home defense/hunting if so desired. For the Reloader/Hand Loader they are exceptionally adaptable & versatile due to the variety of bullet weights and styles offered for those two calibers. I can’t speak for anyone else but if I am going to throw down $300-$500 clams on ANY firearm it’s not going to be POS One Trick Pony like this one.

      I sincerely hope that the people at Hi-Point do read these. Maybe they will get the hint and build some quality for a change. I’ve owned a couple of their Handguns over the years and they are for the most part, garbage. They make better clubs than firearms.

      And for the record…I’m always safe.

    9. Well at least we are back on topic ,went to look at a brand new 45 acp hi point carbine today and i must say i have to agree with Kurt .IT IS A POS AND JUNK. As all other hi point firearms i have looked and and fired a few handguns made by them as well they would be better served to upgrade the quality control of their firearms .As for the guy saying he hunted deer with a 9mm hi point that to me is very unethical and against the rules in most all 50 states for deer sized game and to say you dropped them @ 50 yards with 1 shot from a 9mm is ludicrus and i will never buy that story unless i saw it done myself and would consider it a very lucky shot , to me the .357 mag is not enough gun for whitetail deer i have shot more than a few with one leading to 45 mins to an hour of searching for a wounded deer .NO PISTOL UNDER 44 MAG or 45 long colt that has been HANDLOADED or buffalo bore or cor-bon ammo only with the 45 long colt loads in the ruger single action pistols should be used to hunt deer and no 9mm in any platform should ever be used against deer sized game unless it was eat or starve and on that note i handed the guy the 45 cal hi point carbine back and said if i owned this gun store I WOULD NOT SELL THESE to anyone ever they are junk if you ask me JMHO as a gun expert and gunsmith and a military veteran with over 40 yrs of experience with firearms .Save ya money and buy a quality firearm these are pure junk and toy like to me and may explode on you some day . CTD QUIT SELLING THESE JUNK CLUNKER CARBINES PLEASE.You may face a civil lawsuit along with hi point someday . And this carbine in any magnum caliber would not hold up to the pressure levels at all in the present form Quit making them or upgrade the quality .HI PoiNT you dropped the ball on these clunkers and should pull them off the market and recall any sold recently they are nothing but an accident waiting to happen .

    10. Out to 125 yards, the .357 Mag matches the 30-30 Winchester step for step. They carry almost the exact same amount of muzzle energy, albeit their respective trajectories begin to diverge at about 75 yards. What the Winchester gains in trajectory, the .357 makes up for in retained energy. In heavy close quarter brush hunting, (Willow Breaks or tall grass) the .357 is actually more effective than high velocity rounds with spire point bullets.

      The Late Great Elmer Keith literally made a living culling wild hogs and big cat’s using his long barreled S&W Python in, you guessed it, the .357 Magnum. For a couple of decades he wrote & published article after article for Field & Stream, Sports Afield & Outdoor Life documenting the taking Nevada Mule Deer out to 200 yards with his long barreled scoped Python. He even invented a couple of shooting positions for steadying long barreled revolvers off hand. If Elmer Keith says the .357 is enough to cleanly take Deer sized animals, you would do well to take His word for it.

    11. yea then why did he make the 41 and 44 mag ? Because the .357 is not enough gun i know from experience the 357 maximum maybe another wildcat round ,and for the guy thinks a 10.1 round 9mm hi point will help him against gang membewrs that is laughable man. todays gang members all carry ak 47’s which i carry an SBR ak in my truck with 4 40 round fully loaded mags and a moss 500 with 00 buck along with my 3 handguns you will just be killed with that hi point against any steet thugs or gang members my 124 grain 7.62 ak rounds will shoot through their car ,a wall , anything they hide behind will not help them and i doubt you get those 10 rounds off against street gang members pal they will laugh at that thing and just fill you n ya vehicle with bullet holes and watch you bleed out if you live long enough .Carry a real firearm man not this junk clunker of a carbine and then they will go smoke some dope with the money they dug out of ya pockets laughing at the guy thought he had firepower and doubt you ever been in a real firefight just by that post . Y ou will be carried by 6 people to ya final resting spot when i survive that firefight with same gang members it will be them being carried by 6 not me . I carry forepower i want the advantage not to be outgunned by thugs who carry stolen ak’s in phoenix at that it will prolly be cartel members what do they all carry ? a good ol ak 47 with 7.62 rounds that can take you out before you ever get that carbine out of the case .Get real rifle man that is not the rifle to carry in that situation you will just be killed quickly by overwhelming firepower against todays gangs and cartels that roam the streets of phoenix pal. .God help ya in a real firefight or gang attack and in a case you say? too much time to get it into action my ak lays on the floor on passenger side of my truck or on seat next to me it is just me in the vehicle with a fully loaded mag inserted and safety on with a round in the tube . GOOD LUCK ON LIVING THROUGH THAT. HOPE ya life insurance policy is up to date because you are not making it out alive it is any more than 1 perp.and that is if he does not have an ak and waits till you get that clunker out of ya case lol to engage you which i highly doubt . The police now carry M4 carbines for that very reason they been outgunned in too many firefights. Laughable at best on that 1 .


      Yes many times my AK is in the SUV too, depending on where I’m going and what time it is. Don’t you think I know that the Hi-Point has serious limitations!

      I was just trying to keep on track with this stupid Hi-Point forum. Right? Everyone is getting their panties in a bunch if you don’t talk about Hi-Point here.


      I sent you an old Magnum Research CTD article link because I have something very important to tell you, but it didn’t post yet because links get held back. It’s a place we can talk about DE without anyone joining in.

      Here is how you get there.

      1) Click on Shooters Log HOME.

      2) Enter “animal prints” in the search box.

      3) Look for the 5/29/15 Magnum Research article at the top. Then reply to me and I’ll explain more there.

    14. @ss1 ,
      i think those animal print DE ‘s are hideous and screwing up a very nice pistol would never buy 1 saw those when that came out i am on that thread saying how hideous i think they are jmho. Just hideous.

    15. @Damian:

      I hate the animal prints too. I found that article as an OUTPOST for you and I to discuss DE topics without anyone bothering us. There were only 6 posts since May 29th. It’s one of those articles that no one cared about.

      HERE IS MY BIG TOPIC that I wanted to discuss over there. Something decent happened to me financially on Monday, AND I’M GOING TO BUY THE 44 MAGNUM BARREL TODAY!! The black one is only $355 right here on Cheaper Than Dirt. The brushed chrome is $508 at Magnum Research. I was racking my brain trying to figure out which one to buy, and I wanted to know your take on it.

    16. @ ss1,
      Which model you have sir the stainless or blued if you have a stainless go weith stainless if you have Black DE like i do i did not see the point of a shiny stainless hunting pistol and the diff in price all up to you either will perform exactly the same and when you see the diff in control and accuracy and range diff .LMK how it works out for ya.

    17. @Damian:

      I have a black DE, and because you didn’t say there was some superior advantage of getting another coating (they don’t sell stainless barrels yet), I just now bought the black barrel at CTD and saved money!!

      I’ll let you know how it goes. If you’re 100% correct about 44 magnum, I will tell you that you’re 100% correct.

      If you ever visit Arizona, maybe we can shoot them together, and I’ll leave the 50AE at home 🙂

      Here’s my CheaperThanDirt receipt:

      Item # 49275
      Magnum Research .44 Magnum Mark XIX 6″ Barrel Black BAR446


      Item # 2-MGPMMAG04
      ProMag Desert Eagle Magazine .44 Mag 8 Round Blue


      SubTotal: $473.71
      Shipping: $36.19
      Tax: $0.00
      Total: $509.90

    18. @ss1, Well nothing on the DE is cheap my man but i think you will agree once you see the diff as i did in the recoil and control of them in 44 mag as comared to to the 50 cal as well as the long range capabilities of the 44 mag over the 50 AE round and cost effectiveness of going 44 mag over 50 AE and ammo availability in most any gun store in 44 mag..did you get the 6 inch barrel? i have the 6 inch and scoped i have np hitting steel at 200 yards or deer sized targets .My eyes were severly burned in iraq desert and yes you do get sunburned eyes in the desert if you are not used to that enviroment. Which of course the army never informed us of that and issued sunglasses that of course were lost ,broken ,etc. in the process of the op .So i now have the beggining stages of glaucacoma due to it so 200 yards with anything is almost impossible without the scope on any thing , i use it on my upper rail @ over 100 yrds you may not even need it i unfortunately do now . I am positive you will not be displeased with the diff and you are not really giving up that much energy at long range with the 44 mag compared to the 50 AE round.Be sure and use the reccomended ammo on their list with 240 grain bullets no bigger in weight than 240 my man you could damage the pistol and it voids any warranty. Only reason i do not use hadloads in mine i use what they say use only my fave has been the magtech 240 grain jsp moving at about 1300 and change fps. .just right to me for this platform.LMK the results my man glad we can get along and have a civil forum my friend .HAGD

    19. @Damian:

      Thanks very much for your ammo tips. I will definitely follow the 240 grain rule (which I didn’t know about until you told me). I have a stockpile of ammo for my Ruger 44 magnum revolver, and some of it is 300 grains, so I’m glad you told me.

      Just now I noticed on their website that they don’t like re-loads, so I will never buy that either. You know, like HSM ammo.

      I’m sorry to hear about your eyes. Thanks for your service in Iraq!!

      I may expirement with a scope if it can easily attach and detach without losing adjustment. I have tried my 7.5″ Ruger at 200 yards with no scope, and it did NOT go well, LOL.

    20. @Damian:

      And yes it is 6 inches and will look exactly like my 50AE barrel. Unless the bluing looks a little different, I will probably have to double check the caliber imprint on the side just to be safe, because I definitely will be using 44 magnum at home for home defense.

    21. 300 grainers loaded very hot will damage that pistol it is the same frame as the 50 cal is just in 44 mag see if you can go to mag reasearch’s web site and get a manual on the 44 mag version or call them for 1 it gives a list of what ammo to use in it if you cannot get 1 let me know i will send you the list of suggested ammo they want used in it if you want to have good results at 200 i would suggest a good le relief pistol scope that attaches the rail up front about 4 power will do i use a 6 power varibale leupold pistol scope. cheap scopes are same as cheap guns you get what you pay for if you need to wait a while to buy a good not cheap long eye relief pistol scope start at 100 and work from there with the iron sights i have had good results with the magtech 240’s the pistol seems to function flawlessly with it and is a good price for box of 50, no reloads man at all or heavy hunting loads stick with regular 44 mag factory loads in 240 grain . I am anxious to hear how you like the diff in the 2 and now you can change over if 50 AE is not available to 44 mag and still have heavy firepower enough to handle anything walking this countries woods on 2 or 4 legs .Good luck man lmk how it works out . As far as serving t/y .But i do not regret a second of my military service went in on my 18th bd 1980 just sux i had to get a med discharge i was just 5 yrs 4 months from having my 20 in and prolly woulda retired a master sgt .I was just doing my job and trying to keep the troopers in my squad alive but we lost a few good 1,s i will never stop seeing in my sleep when you are living and eating and training, sleeping in holesand fob’s with same guys for so long it is a brotherhood no civie can understand or even have an idea of.
      we did not fight for politics we fought for each other my man the man on our right and left were our brothers losing even 1 is something never goes away and haunts you for life . But that is a story i do not wish to tell much . Scope it it will shock you at the accuracy and range you can achieve with this patform .until then just aim high at 200 and try steel so you hear the gong you’ll know where to hold the sights at then and hit consistently .

    22. He made them because he could? Because he was a Wildcattin Mad Scientist Genius Gun God that could literally build anything he wanted to?
      Because he chose to advance the Sport of Hand Gunning as far as the limitations in Metallurgy and Hand Gun Technology of the day would let him?

      You would have to Ask Keith to get a confirmed answer…. Perhaps if you prayed really hard the answer might come to you in a dream. Or an epiphany or a vision or something…. LOL

    23. @Me:

      I own a 9mm Hi-Point carbine, and yes I’m pissed off at the mag capacity just like you, but I bought it for a specific purpose. I can hit head shots at 50 yards at a 90% rate. It is more accurate than any pistol. For this reason, I carry it in a small case in my SUV, with 10 + 1 in the chamber and safety on. If I get into a situation in a populated area, like with road-ragers or gang members (trust me these things happen in Phoenix), I have 11 shots to do what I need to do. Of course I have other guns to back me up, like my Glock 20 with 8 loaded mags.

      The significance of the 9mm carbine is you get the safety of having a bullet that won’t pass through someone, and you have unbelievable accuracy, and with the ghost sights I don’t have to worry about a scope getting loose or a red dot battery going dead.

    24. Only 90%? If I lived any where that I had to worry that much about road rage & gangs, I’d find someplace else to live. Getting arrested on weapon charges aside (you will forfeit your gun owners rights if you get caught), keeping a loaded firearm in a vehicle is never a good idea. Safety on or not. Accidents happen. Kids get into things they shouldn’t, Vehicles get stolen (especially in places like Phoenix) You are more likely to shoot the person sitting next to you than some would be gang banger or Road Rager. There are very good Laws in place for such things for some very good reasons. You would do better to take some defensive driving Courses and from the sounds of it, some Anger Management classes.

    25. @Me:

      You are so far off on every point in your reply, I’m not going to waste much time arguing back, except to say Arizona is the #1 carry state, and anyone can carry loaded guns in their car if they don’t have a criminal record, and if they notify a police officer the moment he walks up to your car.

      The carbine would be used if I had to exit the vehicle, not while I’m driving, DUH!!!!!!!

      My preparatory actions are based on many documented incidents that have happened in Phoenix and started on the roadways.

      So just keep all your gun locks on, and keep your guns in your safe, and wait for your deer seasons, and I’ll do it my way.

      Also, Colt made the Python, not S&W.

    26. *RMES… Yes ,my bad…Colt. Like THAT’S all you took from that.

      I will have to check the Laws in Arizona about carrying loaded weapons in a vehicle. Where I live, (and it’s a Western “Very Red ” State) it’s an automatic felony charge. Law Enforcement doesn’t even carry loaded weapons in their vehicles. .. Up to 5 years in Prison and a couple $K’s in fines along with forfeiture of your gun rights….Ya know….crazy silly stuff like that…

      I obviously made the mistake of assuming Arizona had the same common sense laws about such things as the rest of Us….Ya know, Kids, guns, stolen vehicles, guns….Accidentally shooting your travelling companion with your gun….Ya know, ridiculous stuff like that never happens….What kind of Car do you drive? License Plate #? That way if I see you on the roadway I’ll know to steer clear…Ya know…cuz holy moly, you’re packin heat…

      Again…My mistake.

      Seriously…. Anger Management…. Look into it…

    27. 9mm not passing through lol are you crazy? i have watched them zip right through haji insurgents and the hollow points will as well .9mm is a shoot right through ya round. Moves to fast . Not a caliber i would carry ever.I was forced to in army hated that round. was useless unless you shot em right in the head.

    28. Dear Me. Hi-Point offers all of it’s carbines with a nice 4x scope, and other optics other than iron sights.t also offers it in camo for those that like such things on weapons. Too, the 9 mm is comparable to the .357, given the carbines longer barrel as compared to a handgun and the .40 is comparable to the .44 Mag. , but I’m sure they would consider such rounds, if there was a demand. Before it became illegal to hunt deer with a handgun round in a state in which I once lived, I have taken white tale deer with 9 mm with this carbine, at just over 50 yards,
      scoped, of course.

    29. I never said they didn’t come with cute gadgets or snazzy paint jobs. (personally I think painting camo on a gun is stupid). Like the animals are gonna know the difference? My Granpappy (God rest his Soul) used to say that shiny fishing lures are for catching Fisherman, not Fish.(I’m hoping you are smart enough to see the analogy). I’m inclined to agree with him. I catch way more fish on ugly ole worms than pretty fishing lures. He also said, “You can polish a turd all day long and at the end of the day, you know what you got?….. A shiny Turd”

      What I did say was that in the calibers they offer them, they are cheap, useless *expensive* One Trick Pony’s good for not much more than wasting ammo punching holes in paper or people….If that’s what you want out of a $500 Gun, then by all means, indulge yourself. Personally, I want more for my money. 10 years ago, you could buy this exact same platform on sale for about $150.00….They weren’t worth that either.

      Equating a 9mm Parabellum with a .357 Magnum? The .40 with the 44 Magnum? I don’t know what kind of rope or cube or crystal dog dooky you are smoking but you need to stop it because it’s pickling your brain.. They aren’t even in the same Ball Park. That’s like comparing a .22 LR with a 9mm and calling them equal. (I’m exaggerating to make the point) Ballistically they aren’t even close.

    30. P.S. Anybody that would take a 9mm Deer Hunting, shouldn’t be hunting at all. I mean if you are starving to death and a 9mm is all you have, then you make do with what you got. But short of that, that is the pure definition of an irresponsible hunter. The Anti’s just LOVE stories like that.
      So do Game Wardens.

  19. This article keeps talking about 25 and 75 yards, well I have a Hi-Point 995 9mm and can put rounds on target at 200 yards…NO JOKE! This is a solid Carbine and I have put over 1,500 rounds down range without a single jam or misfire! I have fired much more expensive carbines that did not hold-up near as well.

    1. I think they use these numbers because they are something the newbies (maybe 75 – 100 rounds a year) can relate to. I own two MP5’s, different barrel lengths. and can put a magazine full into a B57 head at 100 yards with either one. Practice, practice, practice.

    2. hey @ us patriot SURE YOU HAVE and i took a grizz on kodiak with my 22 mag 1 head shot lol. 200 yards with a 9mil? lol thats pretty funny dude. Well my kodiak bear story is about as buyable as that post is lol and oh btw it was at 201 yrds i kilt that thar bear with my 22 mag lol i outdid ya .lmao are you kidding me man c mon you cannot hit the broad side of a barn with a 9mm at 200 yrds lol .Am i nuts or does anyone else buy that story lol you work for HI POINT dont ya USPATRIOT lol.

    3. I have a Potato Gun with a 5 foot PVC barrel powered by a couple of squirts of my Wife’s hairspray that will do the exact same thing. NO JOKE…

      That doesn’t make it a viable weapons platform..

  20. @SS1 if ol sec there stops quickly your ahead would sink shoulders deep into sec’s ass get your head out of his ass and stop kissing it so much and listen to common sense neither of you have any military or law enforecment experience as i can see by ya posts on this and other subjects well i spent almost 15 yrs in US ARMY Reached the rank of SSG and was deployed 3 times i think i know wth i am talking about guys it really pisses me off when civies who have no clue start spouting until you are in a real firefight or been deployed and shot as many rounds as we law enforecment and military guys you need to listen instead of throwing around testoterone and making stupid remarks my man .Take it from a guy who has not only been there but has used these in combat in urban settings not at a range shooting targets do not move ,flank you ,and keep advancing on you while pouring fire down on top of you while doing it then you can talk to me about how much you know and so much more knowledge exists in your civie head than mine and other vets 15 yr military mind has on this and other firearm subjects .WAKE UP jody, we vets know what we are talking about .

    1. @CTD: **** I screwed up my email address on the first reply, and it went to moderation. So this is a quick re-post, and I hope the moderator will delete the other one ****



      You are a perplexing person to trade posts with, because sometimes you actually give excellent advice and have excellent thoughts, but your delivery can be pretty rude. But since I respect knowledge and I respect your passion in explaining things, I’m not going to overreact (yet, LOL) on the rude stuff.

      Secundius is someone I really like here. I look at him as an internet friend. So calm down over there Sergeant.

      Hey, there are many law enforcement and military men here, and I like what they say many times, but all of us have something to say. There are many reasons people buy the guns that they do. I’m rushing as I write this, so I can’t totally do justice to this topic.

      I really enjoyed your analysis of the 50 Beowulf vs 458 Socom. EVERYTHING YOU SAID ABOUT THE 50 BEOWULF IS WHAT I LIKE!!!! So THANK YOU SIR, you convinced me I must buy a 50 Beowulf!!!!

      458 Socom ammo was around $60+ per box of 20 when I peeked yesterday. I’m happy you’re a re-loader, because you’re gonna need that. I will NEVER, NEVER re-load anything. It isn’t part of my personality. We all have to know who we are, and what we like to do. I will NEVER re-load, and therefore never buy 458 Socom. 50 Beowulf FMJ can be bought right now at Cabelas for $30.

      Stop talking about 50AE scarcity. There are 59 entries at AmmoGrab right now. There are ZERO entries for 458 Socom.

      50AE vs 44 magnum. All of us are different. There are many men who stick to 9mm. Many men think 10mm is too much. Hey Damian, I like that me and you are into big calibers. I like that we’re both into AK’s and M92’s and Desert Eagles. But listen, I have no problem shooting all 7 rounds of 50AE in 10 seconds. I do it all the time. If I happen to be very strong (I’m in the gym all the time), very energetic, drinking Rockstars every day, and if I happen to get really pumped up and exhuberant and stoked when I shoot my Desert Eagle, well it is what it is my man.

      And please don’t equate 50AE with SHTF. That is a faulty argument. That’s why I have 2 AK’s, many 30 round mags always loaded, some 40 round mags, and more AK ammo than any other kind of ammo.

      Still……..Damian…… know I’m getting to like you for who you are and what you bring to the table, and I hope you have a good holiday weekend!

    2. And i have 9 rounds i can shoot more acurrately and much farther range when i scope the 44 DE ,i just speak from experience of 3 deployments and use of said platforms on a daily basis .I run a custom restoration of antique firearms buisness along with being armourer for the local police dept and do gunsmithing out of my house .I have reloaded for man many y yrs and the handloads i make are exact and will outshoot any factory ammo on the market on a consistent basis . I enjoy wildcatting commercial ammo by necking up or trimming down cases and am designing now a .500 short mag that can = the ballistics of the 500 s&w magnum with a smaller case and shorter stroke cycle for an autoloading rifle or pistol .BTW the army announced today it is replacing the M9 9mm and taking entries for the new handgun of the future for our troops i will submit a design with hope of getting it patented after testing in 45 acp i do not think a magnum will suit most normal soldiers in field as well as a high cap,tactical 45 acp .The 44 mag has been around a long time and still will take most any game walking this continent easily but a 500 short mag in an alaskan type guide gun would be sweet to patent and market not here to argue just speak facts i just try and give advice and my opinion of wjat is going to be practical in the real world of combat handgunning the .50 DE is not the gun for it never will be it is a novelty gun to me only a hulk hogan would want . or own a .50 pistol watse of money to me unless never fired and left for collecter value later down road .The 458 socom is worth the cost and easy to reload when you get the performance with that 400 to 500 grain slug at well over 150 yards and possibly more i have only shot it at 150 With outstanding results for a very large bore AR and the cost to reload a box of 50 is around 20.00 for me when i have the powder, mag primers, and bullets overstocked . Where as i cannot reload the 50 AE or the 50 beowolf that cheap .it is a hunting rifle for dangerous game at its finest . I never want to shoot another human as long as i live i have seen and done enough to atone for at my death now in my 3 deployments it is not something i strive for or buy my firearms with intent for 2 legged critters i have enough of those. I hunt with my weapons . But i will defend myself ,the police , our troops,or any other law abiding american citizen against all threats foreign or domestic as i vowed to do almost 25 yrs ago and still stand firm to the code and honor of that oath i am a trooper for life i just am not serving anymore but a trooper i will be till death. Have a great weekend SS1 lets agree to disagree on this 1 and if you knew a few grizzled up SSGT’S like me you would know we are bitterly to the point, blunt and very quick to point out what we see as a fubar . long live the US 1st CAVALRY 509th airborne infantry troopers my brothers . !! MOLON LABE

    3. @ Damian.

      Are you thinking of the Wild West Guns “AK Guide” in 457WWG (.45-70/11.6×53.3) in 350-grain or 400-grain Cartridge or the “Co-Pilot” in same caliber…

    4. NO ,i use 45.70 bullets to load the 458 socom same bullet on a shorter fatter case with more powder .I shoot in sass cowboy action as well with a 45.70 at long range and a 44-40 remington 1875 army uberti carry piistols i practice at 10 – 20 and 30 yards .The factory loads arse using 300 grainers i like bigger bullets.I use a 460 grain in my 45.70 break open h&r handi rifle for big ohio deer . But when will you ever need a 50 beowolf in civilian life that was made for hard targets. .

    5. Exactly why i would not buy 1 no practical use for it in civilian life and as for the shtf scenario once martial law is enacted all firearms WILL BE CONFISCATED all of them that they can find .Just like they left the poor people in new orleans before and after Katrina completely unprotected they went door to door confiscating all firearms .Most those people never saw them again and many paid with their lives for it as ilegally armed gangs roamed about raping and pillaging at will even in the superdome itself . so if you do not run for the hills or cannot get out before the nat guard and military like police depts we have now get started it is too late . You will be just another poor hungry standing in line unprotected in any way statistic. The police themselves becoming so paramilitary like in this country is why they are having the problems with police officers being murdered like dogs in the street blame the democratic liberal blue state bloomberg backing dems for trying to disarm law abiding citizens and making our police look like invading armies in apc’s coming out in droves in full military type gear they should be working with us not making us fear for our lives as they roll out like small armies down our public streets. i respect all police officers but they have just gone too damn far and people are sick of it as well as fear for their lives from our local police depts.Very sad america has dwindled to such barbaric ways and getting worse btd,why Trump is blowing away the comp.He says it like it is in america at this time plain and simple.And obama and the dem party have divided this country more racially then it has been since the 1950’s all this has led to our police being shot like dogs and executed for just being an officer i blame them for it not us legal gun owners .

    6. @ Damian.

      The most Confusing thing I find about you, Damian. Is HALF the time I don’t know who your talking too. I know you have a Busy Schedule and It Alway’s a Busy Day with YOU. But, could Please Direct The Question to Someone Specific, Instead of making it a Generic Question ADRESSED to No One In Particular…

  21. AAACKK blashphemus to us collecters lol hey they belong to you sec, if it works for you by all means i am a has that been there done that look with mil-surps such as the archangel Mosin nagant stock sets ACKKKK. never on my mosin lol i just hate when i see a nice mosin nagant put into one of those stocks i try and talk customers out of us doing it here in my shop for them. polymer stocks and mil-surp rifles from back in the day ?ACKKKKKKK LOL destroying history to me lol all it is just my personel opinion and something i rarely do. Zastava makes good firearms i have 2 zastava AK type rifles now both run like champions . Back to the hi point at less than 300.00 it is a risk worth taking i think i am not happy with it no great loss i can get my money back i am shopping for 1 in .45 acp now for my tiny wife but it is going to be a surprise for her lol and probably be fired by me as much as her the weapon works .

    1. @ Damian.

      I’m a “Tinker” by nature, I was a Ordnance Warrant Officer in Training before being Discharged by the Army for getting Injured to often. I like to SEE what WORK’S, and what DOESN’T. I’ve Collaborated with others on a Few Gun Designs. 5% WORKED and 95% DIDN’T. As a Wheelchair Driver, I like take Classic Military Designs and make it Easier for other Handicapped People to use Comfortable, And if that requires to “Pimp” curtain classic Weapons, That what I do. Sec…

    2. Hello Secundius, I hope you’re having a good weekend.

      Hey, regarding the 7.92×33 Kurz and that factory that makes the AK’s that you told me about, I’ve been wanting to share something with you that I read last week. I wasn’t going to talk about it on the Hi-Point forum, but since people are branching off and discussing AK’s and Mausers, I’ll just share it right here.

      This comes from the 7.92×33 Kurz Wiki. It’s one paragraph that really made me think, like gave me doubts about that little factory that makes the Kurz AK. I would like your comments on the paragraph below, which comes straight from Wiki……………………….

      In Pakistan, the same cartridge is also reported to be in use by the local name of “44 Bore.” This either refers to the “44” of the MP44/StG44 series or the “L44A1” inscription found on the headstamps on necked-down 7.62×51mm cartridge cases. It is used in locally made AK-pattern weapons in semi-automatic only (produced or converted in Peshawer, Kohat and Derra Adam Khel, etc.) that chamber this cartridge, since 7.62×39mm is a restricted caliber (known as Prohibited Bore or “PB” in Pakistan). These AK-pattern weapons are usually considered inferior due to inconsistent gunsmithing of weapons chambered or converted for this cartridge and lack of quality control of the ammunition. It is sometimes used by private security companies. The usage of 7.92 mm bullets in 7.62 mm barrels without reboring is not considered to be a safe practice.

    3. @ ss1.

      The Russian 7.62×39, is actually a 7.92×38.7. It’s a way to confuse the enemy. If you had a 7.92×57 Mauser and you knew for a fact that the 7.62×39 could be chambered in it safely. You’d use it RIGHT. But give it to a Simple Minded Peasant o Soldier, who doesn’t know that. And they’ll avoid that ammunition.

      That’ where the German’s were at their “Craftiest”, they knew Eventually that they were going to be fight against the same people. That a Generation before, sold ARMS to, but in Variable Caliber’s similar to there’s. So they Designed a Rifle THAT COULD in a emergency, also Chamber there Ammunition. My father told me that WW2, was a “Tool Box” war. Because you Never Knew from “One-Day-To-the-Next” what kind of weapon you were going to be fighting with. The Unit he fought in, ALL soldier had one thing in common. Their Standard Issue Weapon or Weapons, and their Non-Standard Issue Weapon. The German 98k Mauser, If you ran out of your Issued Ammunition for the FIGHT. You had a ready available “Fall Back” Ammunition, YOUR ENEMIES Ammunition.

      That’s why if they’ll ever be a (God Forbid) Next Civil War. One of my Firearms will ALWAY’S be the Venerable 98k Mauser.

      As to your other Question, the 44-Bore was the (technically the Royal Ordnance L44) or .303 British (7.7x56R or 7.92×56.44R British/Mauser), But in this Case “A1” Short (aka 7.62x54R or 7.92x54R actual).

      Confusion Right, or “Method In the Madness”. Your Choice.


    4. @Secundius:

      I like the way you ended your reply with “Confusion Right, or “Method In the Madness”. Your Choice.”

      First I want to say that I really respect and enjoy your desire to tinker and expirement with unique variations. I actually was EXACTLY like you, except it was in GOLF. I was always on Ebay ordering the most unique and non-standard clubs, and I was addicted to it, rushing out to the driving range or the chipping/putting practice area to analyze and discover what had just arrived in the mail from Ebay. And for a while it actually made me a better golfer in my driving distance and in my skills near the green (chipping, etc.).

      But in my gun hobby, I’m not so much the expirementer or tinkerer, at least not on your level. I’m constantly analyzing what is the BEST thing I can have for each type of situation.

      You got me excited with the 7.92×33 Kurz, but when I saw what the factory looked like on YouTube, and then read the warnings on Wiki, I lost interest for the time being, but will look for something cool in the future from Century Arms or CTD or J&G Sales (an Arizona company with lots of AK’s). Maybe a factory with a good reputation, or better yet, and American factory, will make something interesting in 7.92×33 Kurz.

      But until then there’s nothing wrong with the tried and true 7.62×39. I have a WASR-10 and a Zastava M92 AK pistol, and I love them both. I have a mini-project/goal to take my M92 to a gunsmith to get a fastener that a single point sling/cord will fit onto. I would absolutely LOVE to carry my Zastava M92 with a sling over my shoulder in the desert. Maybe because I sent this to you tonight, I’ll get my butt over to the gunsmith this week and get that done.

      OK, that’s my take on this.

    5. @ ss1.

      There’s one I ran across earlier today, which looked interesting. Just slightly longer than an M1 Carbine, called Ares Defense SCR 7.62x39R. Approximately 37-inches long, 5.7-pounds, 16.25-inch Barrel made of Lightweight Contour Ordnance Grade 4140 Chrome-Molybdenum Alloy and uses Standard AR Magazines. It looks like a Contemporary Semi-Auto Rifle/Carbine, very much like a Ruger 10/22 but in 30-caliber Russian. You might see it CTD has them.

      As for the Pakistani Arms Company, It’s THIRD WORLD Manufacturing at Best, but they have to be Fairly Reliable or Nobody would do Business with them. And for Hard to Find Old Pattern Ammunition, Countries like Pakistan, Egypt, Indonesia, Vietnam are good like choice to go. I saw a picture in a 2012 National Geographic Magazine of a Afghani Tribes Man, posing with his Pride And Joy Rifle. An Late 18th Century British Brown Bess Smoothbore Flintlock Musket, and after nearly 200-years. Looked nearly Brand New, I tried to Imagine the History that Musket must have seen. Sec

      PS. It appears that I’m the ONLY Angler in the Fishing Boat…

    6. @ ss1 I have the M92 zastava as well i upgraded it with the 26mm lh threaded muzzle break in place of the hideous muzzle thread cover you can get the brake in 26mm lh thread from AK you do not need a real gunsmith to add it on (sling adapter and muzzle brake) very simple with instructions and works great with the sb brace . i bought the M92 from classic along with the stabilizing brace and adapter for single point sling as an SBR type rifle now it works and looks great and is very accurate for such a small barrel firing it with the sb wrist brace is easy when shouldered as well but the ATF supposedly says you need a tax stamp to use it that way now so got it just to be safe one time charge but if you do NOT make u tube vids of you doing something who knows right lol anyhow unless they are making exact repros of the stg-44 or the paratrooper rifle the ss had why bother with the 7.92 kurz just do not see that ever happening and would be more for the handloading shooters than any others commercial ammo would be pricey and hard to find.

    7. @Damian:

      Thanks for the advice on the 7.92 Kurz. I agree that nothing substantial may ever happen with that. Secundius had gotten me interested on another forum, alerting me to an AK type pistol in 7.92 Kurz, but as you can see in my prior post, I have lost interest.

      Regarding my Zastava M92 pistol, I already bought and had a gunsmith install a Yugo Krinkov NightBrake 26mm from Manticore Arms, and a Yugo Krinkov Aluminum Quad Rail Handguard from Midwest Industries. They’ve been on there for a while now.

      The NightBrake looks cool, but I’m not sure if I even noticed a difference in controlling the muzzle rise. If you are very knowledgable about these brakes, please reply again because I have another question which I’ll explain in more detail.

      I looked over at AK Builders after your post, and I found 2 sling adapters that fit above the grip, but the Draco says right up front that it doesn’t fit the M92. So I’m assuming you bought the one that says CODE: E2-34?

      I want to consult with my gunsmith on the sling adapter too, because I really like the guy and he has done a few cool and intricate things for me. I would rather spend time improving skills in my career and trust gun work to someone who has made that their career. I’m just really happy I’m even cleaning my guns myself, LOL.

    8. Y/W sir,The brake i got from ak builders made a hude diff in muzzle blast and muzzle climb on rapid or burst fire type mode i would have to go look see which exact one i bought it is not the krinkov type no has slots . The sling adapter was 1 screw and drill one hole but i build a lot of my own projects here in my shop at home . i will say the sb shoulder brace from sig or classic makes it very controllable fired from the shoulder and if you go head and get the 200.00 1 time fee tax stamp you can adapt any buttstock to it including a folder to anyone wanting to build a legal SBR ak type these are the way to go for the price canot be beat . . they also have a ring type adpter for the sling that is bungee single point without the brace it was more of a spray and pray weapon , throw it to shoulder with the brace it is an accurate ,reliable ,and legal sbr type ak depending on where you live now of course . Zastava does make good firearms i own 3 diff ones now all very reliable .

    9. @Damian:

      Here is my dilema and question about my muzzle brake. Picture that the brake has 8 grooves parallel with the barrel. 6 of those grooves have 3 vent holes in each groove. 2 grooves have zero vent holes. I would imagine (you tell me) that the 2 grooves without vent holes should be at the bottom, like at 5 o’clock and 7 o’clock. I would imagine that all the other vents could thereby help to push down the muzzle.

      But I used my 2nd best gunsmith for this job, and he doesn’t like AK’s. I’m not sure if he was in a hurry or impatient or if he was forced to screw the brake on as far as it would go, but the 2 grooves without any vent holes ended up at 1 o’clock and 2:30 o’clock. In other words when I’m holding it up right-handed, I’m looking at those 2 ventless grooves.

      I’m not happy with the muzzle rise. Sure I love the gun, but when I try to practice rapid fire while keeping my eye on the sight, it’s rough. I don’t know if it’s all about those vent holes or if the muzzle brake just sucks. You know there’s more than 1 type of muzzle brake to choose from.

      You can see the one I’m describing at Manticore Arms. I checked there tonight. It’s called the Yugo Krinkov NightBrake. I’m not going to include a link because that puts my post on hold for a long time.

      Any comments on this issue Damian?

    10. @Damian:

      I also wanted to comment on your “spray and pray” comment.

      I will never buy a shoulder brace because I bought it as a pistol and I like it as a pistol.

      Right now when I hold it up while standing, no brace, no cord, using the iron sights, I can nail the 100 yard target better than I can with any pistol. Actually I can’t even hit the 100 yard target standing up with most of my pistols.

    11. @ Damian & ss1.

      What are you Looking FOR? What are your NEED’s?? And what do you WANT???

      It sound’s more like your BOTH looking for a Muzzle Compensator to control Muzzle Rise when Salvoing Shots. Are YOU Looking for GLITZ or FUNCTION. For ME it’s simple, If I wanted to be Noticed, I’d get a “High-School March Band”. So a Flash Deflector is OUT, which probably also mean NO GLITZ. I’m looking to Control the FLASH by HIDING the FLASH, So it’s either a FLASH HIDER or FLASH SUPPRESSOR. It may not be PRETTY, but it WORKS…

    12. @Secundius:

      I was looking specifically at controlling muzzle rise so I could shoot faster. I didn’t care about hiding flash. I know the one I selected is called NIGHTBrake, but the description clearly says it’s a muzzle brake.

      Can you please go to the Manticore website and take a look at it? Do you understand my description above about the 2 grooves or lines that don’t have vent holes (or ports)? Unfortunately every photo of it at Manticore does not show those grooves that don’t have ports. Just trust me on that one.

      And maybe I can improve my description from above. I was using clock positions as if looking at it from the front. When I look at it from a shooters perspective, the grooves that have no ports are at 9:30 and 11:30 o’clock. My question is if the gunsmith should have made sure they were more like 5:30 and 7:30, on the bottom?

      Here’s more info. Listed below is the complete description from Manticore……………And actually the description (now that I look at it a year after buying it) pretty much says the section without ports is supposed to be on the bottom. My question remains, is that screwing up the muzzle braking effect?


      Machined from 8620 steel with a black oxide finish and heat treated for a life of hard use, the Manticore Arms Yugo M92 NightBrake muzzle compensator is designed specifically for the 26×1.5 left hand thread found on the muzzle of the Yugoslavian M92 and M85 Krinkov rifles and PAP series of pistols.

      The NightBrake is designed to reduce felt recoil and virtually eliminate muzzle rise, and can safely pass any projectile up to 0.311″ (0.30 caliber) in diameter, making it a universal muzzle device fro both the M85 and M92.

      A total of eighteen ports distributed around the upper 270 arc of the device help stabilize and reduce exiting gas pressure. There are no ports facing directly upwards to minimize flash in the line of sight, and the lower 90 degree arc has no ports to prevent a dust signature when fired.

      The Yugo M92 NightBrake flash hider is 2.125″ inches long, adding only 1.125″ to the overall length of the rifle- it is over an inch shorter than the standard M92 muzzle booster! In addition the weight is only 3.0 ounces and is marked “MANTICORE” to denote a U.S. made part that counts towards 922r compliance.

    13. @ ss1.

      I had to go to the IMAGES section to get a Close-Up of the Muzzle Brake, but the look like a Linear Row of Four Elliptical Holes. Surrounding the Muzzle Brake. The Forward most Hole appears to be BEVELED or CANTED to Deflect the Blast Forward of the Muzzle Brake. Another consideration if your looking to Control or Eliminate Recoil Force and Muzzle Rise, is the Strike Industries “Cookie Cutter”. Just a suggestion. Sec…

    14. Well it is a muzzle brake not flashider for 1 ,2 i oid not care for the rifle/pistol; without the shoulder brace to hard tocontrol for the wife i bought it for and no 3 , my 44 MAG MK XIX DESERT EAGLE HOLDS 9 ROUNDS IN EACH MAG = 29 rounds in all with 1 in tube with first mag with 2 reloads mr 50 cal lover it is a waste of money to me to buy that 50 AE.. dont know which model you are speaking of but if i could post a pic or vid on here i would prove it to you how many rounds my 3 mags hold of 44 mag. as far as the 50 AE goes not for me enjoy it i have no use for 1 in 50 caliber a MUZZLE BREAK IS NOT FOR HIDING THE FLASH it is for reducing felt recoil there sir so you are missing the point we are making of why we use the breaks.not for hiding the flash at all that is a flashider .We are speaking of MUZZLE BRAKES big diff .

    15. sounds like you need a crush washer ,the vents should always be at top and sides of a brake and tuned to rifles bore to be that way you do not want any holes or vents on bottom of break for more than 1 reason ,reason #1 it keeps the muzzle jump down by using the gases to push muzzle down when firing for faster follow up shot ,reason #2 if you are blowing up leaves ,sand ,dust ,etc after the shot you are giving them a clear view of your location to return fire and kicking too much debris up in front of your optics ,reason number 3 ,the muzzle break will work against you if not timed right to bore of rifle which basically = it needs to be correctly lined up with bore with all vents n holes above and on sides none on bottom crush washers do this for you and allow you to tune ya muzzle brake however the crush washer only works for one time timing and leave it so a tad of loc-tite on threads will deff help the M92 has no break detent pin included at bore end like most other ak platforms you can buy 1 for it from ak builders but i say go with the crush washer for 26 mm threaded muzzle break . I am shocked a gunsmith did not use 1 in first place to install that break i install a break for a customer it leaves here in tune with rifles bore period . And will stay tuned unless they remove it for some odd reason . The break i got from ak builders is not a krinkov type at all it is a real muzzle break . with vents those krinkov breaks do not soak up much recoil or do much for the rifles use at all it is designed to soak up that huge muzzle flash from the very short barrel more than for accuracy they are basically room and house clearing sort to mid range type AK,S . You want accurraCY
      change that break sell it on ebay get the vented 26 mm lh threaded 1 from AK builders you will see a huge difference in jump ,blast and controllabilty of that M92.Hope that helps ya .

    16. @Damian:

      Thanks very much for your extensive write-up on muzzle brakes. I REALLY appreciate it.

      The gunsmith who put this on is a military guy who does not specialize in AK’s. He specializes in sniper rifles. He was rushing for me while I waited because I live very far from him. He also did the quad rail while I waited.

      He did not line it up correctly. Then he loctited it and heated it with a torch, so that’s why I have not messed with it.

      I will now take it to my other gunsmith who has done fantastic work on my 8mm Mauser. I will discuss other brakes with him and ask his opinion. I want the best brake that he knows how to put on there. Or we may decide to line mine up properly like it should have been done the first time, so I can see if I like it.

      There are many brakes over at AK Builders, as I just now checked. If you want to throw out the name of the one you think is best, I would appreciate it.

      Damian, if I can ever possibly advise you on anything, please let me know. Maybe I could give you advice on Glock 10mm’s (or 10MM in general) or Desert Eagle 50AE, both of which I am very passionate about.


      The Cookie Cutter Comp looks really cool!! I will also discuss this with my gunsmith.

      THANKS MUCH GUYS!!!!!!!!!!

    17. Y/W sir ,
      I have a desert eagle in 44 mag same frame as the .50 ae I Ifired both before buying the 44 mag, .50 unpractical to me for anything but dangerous game country and ammo expense ,more rounds in mag ,better control,ammo availabilty and the fact i think i can outshoot any .50 with my 44 in the desert eagle platform. I will go look up which brake i bought and tell you later as far as rushing gunsmithing work ? not very smart to ever try or agree to even do as a gunsmith rush work on one in any way and to loc-tite and heat it with torch? i have to ? this guy period man srry lol on just how you have described this work get it checked by a real gunsmith lol jus sayin a reputable one would never let 1 leave his shop that way i would never nor be rushed wait ,come back or take it elsewhere man .Back on topic still say the 9mm and berretta and the 5.56 need replaced needs to be done now .

    18. oops wrong thread lol ok i am buying the hi point in 45 acp soon i will review it for you guys then lol.

    19. @ ss1.

      Are you considering the Stainless Steel version of the Portable 12-Pdr. in .50AE (12.7×32.6). Joking Aside, consider a Recoil Compensator Spring for your Physical Health. For any/if any Medical Problems. Possible Alternative Round worth considering.
      1. .38-40Win (10.17×33.15)
      2. .41Rem,Mag. (10.4×32.8)
      3. .44Mag. (10.9×32.6)
      4. .45Colt (11.58×32)
      5. .480Ruger (12.1×32.6)


    20. @Secundius:

      I was very appreciative to Damian for his long muzzle brake discussion, so even though I’m not an expert in anything, I was offering him possible advice with a couple things I’m knowledgeable about. I have owned my Desert Eagle 50AE for 1 year now, and it actually has 2 side by side springs, and my #1 hobby (over guns) is weight lifting, so I have no problem handling the gun. I would be much more worried about anyone who buys a S&W 500 Magnum revolver, which obviously has no springs and a much bigger cartridge.


      You are probably right about out-shooting me with your DE 44 magnum, because I’ll bet the control would be much sweeter with the 44. One of my other projects/goals is to sell my Ruger Super Redhawk 44 magnum and enter the DE 44 market by buying a 44 magnum barrel, having fun swapping barrels, and deciding if long term I should have a separate complete DE 44……or maybe just being comfortable swapping barrels.

    21. As i said i went with the 44 mag over the 50 desert eagle out of control issues ,accuraccy, more rounds in my mags ,and ammo can be bought almost anywhere in 44 mag that sells ammo not so true with the 50 A.E ammo and 4 times the price for 20 rounds as compared to 50 magtech 44 mag rounds of 240 grain jhp’s. I fired both before buying the .50 was not practical for me where i live ,hunt and would ever use it .Dont mean to stir controversie i also fired the 9mm hi point i still would onlt want 1 in 45acp .

    22. @Damian:

      Well I wasn’t going to say this stuff until you sent your 2nd DE 44 magnum post, but now I must defend the 50AE.

      A quick 5 minute check told me that it definitely is NOT 4 times the price. It’s more or less .65 cents per round for 44 magnum soft or hollow point compared to $1.25 per round for 50AE THREE HUNDRED GRAIN hollow points.

      To me and many other men, $1.25 per round is worth the extra power and bigger bullets, higher velocity and bigger holes. Some people like me can become proficient with the 50AE. I can unload my magazine in about 10 seconds although I haven’t done time trials. I’ve just shot it very vigorously and confidently.

      Yes you get 1 more round with the 44 magnum, and that is EXACTLY why I’m thinking about getting out of my 6 shot 44 magnum revolver and going with 44 magnum Desert Eagle, because with 8+1 it’s actually 3 more shots than a revolver, and very much more controlled than shooting a revolver double action.

      So yes I really like the 44 magnum DE concept, but NOT at the expense of my 50AE!! I’ll choose the 50AE any day over a 44.

    23. @ss1
      um excuse me sir but my desert eagle mk xIx mags hold 9 rounds in the mags came with the pistol and 1 in the tube = 10 rounds sir that is 4 more rounds first mag and then followed by 2 more 9 round mags . the rounds you have just mentioned and around here go for 20 rounds of 50 AE is 60.00 or more if you can even find them cheapest . i get 50 round boxes of 44 mag 240 grain jhp’sor jsp for 32.95 magtechs ,1350 fps out my 6 inch railed barrel at any local gun shop or cabelas any day of the week.or even here on CTD a lot of times . And my 44 is more accurate at longer ranges than that .50 will ever be .all about practicality and accuracy to me not oh cool i have a 50 cal whoa cool but you will never ever need it or really use it for anything . Back to topic lol i think i found a HI -point in 45 acp carbine all the bells and whistles .if i do not win it i will buy 1 from CTD i hope .

    24. @Damian:

      Not sure where you’re getting your info from.

      This website, CheaperThanDirt, is selling THE FINEST 50AE AMMO for $27.17 per box of 20. Just enter this into the CTD search box: “Ammo .50 AE Hornady Custom 300 Grain XTP Jacketed Hollow Point”.

      NUFF SAID ON AMMO…………….

      Also, I went to the Magnum Research website just now and the 44 magnum magazine holds 8, so that is 8+1. 50AE is 7+1…………..Big deal!!

      I love the 44 magnum caliber, and you can keep arguing all you want about why someone should buy a DE 44 over a 50, but we all know that Desert Eagle was made famous by 50AE and men who can shoot it and afford the ammo will buy a 50AE.

      Regarding your “never ever need it” comment, you could say that statement about so many guns that everyone owns, but the fact is that anything you can use your DE 44 for, I can use my DE 50 for. If someone had a 4 inch 44 magnum revolver, they could argue weight and carry and concealability. But you have the same big gun as I do, except mine shoots bigger, more powerful, and faster bullets. Get over it!! I told you in a much earlier post that it was already on my to-do list to buy a DE 44 magnum barrel. What are we arguing about? Why don’t you go to Magnum Research and tell them they made a serious mistake in ever producing the 50AE line, because you have determined it is unusable and unshootable 🙂

    25. MUZZLE BRAKE NOT FLASH HIDER for reduced felt recoil not hiding flash . and again you are wrong my 44 MK XIX 44 MAG HAS 9 round mags not 8 lol i know whay my pistol is and holds dude. if i could post a vid or pic i would prove it to you keep up with the newest desert eagles there mr expert ,second if you never plan to shoulder the M92 weapon the brake really is pointless and all you need is a flashider if at all standing up spraying away like you want to and set up in the sbr style my M92 is now i will shoot circles around your uncontrollable unless single round shooting it and even then pistol when i bought the weapon to make into an sbr type for my tiny wife so that was all pointless to even bother with .I shot 50 rounds through the 50 de and the 44 mag desert eagle the 50 was extremely loud ,overpowered for any unpractical for my use , held less rounds in the weapon ,overpriced and i can shoot almost 200 yards with the halo sight attached to rail came on the pistols top over barrel, that 50 will not do that that in my hands and i am never hunting africa or alaska for kodiak bear . i will say again i will outshoot you with either at much longer ranges , with much better results and i can hunt with my 44 here in ohio i cannot with the 50 cal and how many ammo shops keep 50 AE in stock very few my man around here but they all have 44 mag now since you asked for my advice i give it then it gets to this old aol chat room style of convo i bail out enjoy ya carpel tunnel i will enjoy my 44 that has 9 round mags lol and outshoots any 50 AE handgun all day and my wife loves her M92 sbr type rifle now as far as this thread is concerned when i buy the 45 acp HI POINT CARBINE i want i will give my review till then i am out of this convo due to the childlike i got you beat game now when i was asked on my opinion well i gave it and i am sticking with it .Go to ak builders pick a break have that bubba gunsmith you use TUNE IT WITH A CRUSHWASHER or stick with what ya got .Stay safe at the range all be back when i have a hi point in my possesion .This is getting plain old stupid now i know what pistol i have and how many rounds i put into each mag when i load them pal.

    26. Oh Damian, I just don’t know what to do with you. I love your shotgun style of arguing, slinging out multiple know-it-all comments and insults on multiple topics in 1 huge rambling paragraph.

      Look, you gave me some decent advice about muzzle brakes, when I was really asking my friend Secundius. And BTW I know the difference between a muzzle brake and a flash hider. So after your advice, I offered possible future advice on a couple things I’m passionate about, one being Desert Eagles. But instead of saying “hey thanks anyway I’m already an owner”, you went on a rambling tirade of why your DE 44 is so much better than my DE 50. Dude why do you need to put down a guy’s favorite gun? Why did you need to show up and put down Secundius’s idea to turn his Mauser into a 45ACP? I’ll bet he created a cool rifle that he really likes.

      I proved you totally wrong on the price of 50AE ammo, and you didn’t even acknowledge that. At least I can admit when I make a mistake, like I did with the gunsmith who installed my muzzle brake incorrectly.

      Look, I can stand and hunt with you with my 50AE. I can use your halo sight if I want to. We have the same gun dude.

      I will buy a 44 mag barrel like I was ALREADY GOING TO DO before you showed up. I will use the 44 barrel when I sprain my arm or wrist in the gym and I need to rest, LOL. I will also explore advantages the 44 has over the 50, but you or no one else can convince me that the 50 isn’t a fun and cool gun that I can use anywhere I want to.

      As far as your M92 comments go, look that’s just more of your know-it-all mine-is-better-than-yours BS dude. It’s a frickin pistol. I can stand up and hold it and tear apart the 100 yard target. I think I’ll try the 200 yard target this weekend. If you want to buy an AK pistol and then pay the gvmt 200 bucks so you can treat it like a rifle, have fun with that. I would rather BUY A RIFLE….I have one…It’s called an AR-10, and a WASR-10.

      Instead of buying a tax stamp to convert a pistol to a rifle, I would rather invest that money in some high performance 50AE ammo 🙂

      To all people reading this forum, hey I’m sorry it’s a Hi-Point 45 ACP forum, but this Damian guy is the first guy to really piss me off here in a long time. I’m thinking about selling my Hi-Point 9mm carbine and buying a 45 carbine right here on CheaperThanDirt.

    27. Not knocking your 50 DE just not for me not practical for my use and what happens when the dems in dc stop internet ammo sales which they will soon enough as they always do 50 AE ammo will go sky high and hard to find to even buy. i still favor immensely the 44 DE over the .50 i still say i have 9 round mags not 8 rounders as you say and it will shoot farther than that .50 ever will case closed on my reason for favoring the 44 over the .50 you can love it as much as you want i test fired both the 44 made the cut the 50 did not with me . ,never insulted you just ya facts about how many rounds my mags hold , and why i think the 50 AE is a total waste and only really good for grizz country, africa or i just want to own a 50 cal handgun sales pitch on it over practical use as a carry gun ,hunting round ,self defense it is overpowered and useless to me especially in streets cant carry the monster all day or use it in city will kill 5 people behind the threat with overpenetration smae as the 44 mag would .If that insults you srry man just my opinion of the 50 DE end of it man good luck with it .I will never buy 1 . That us just me practical over eye bulging look it is a 50 lol makes more sense to me .Most do not know i am firing the 44 model till they ask same frame man.Then most all agree that have fired the 50 cal DE wow that was much better and easier to control than any 50 cal was .I like it after firing my mk XIX 44 DE. lmao @ piss you off hahaaaaaaa wooooooooooo should i be scared lol. Diff of opinion man is all it is and you keep telling me how many rounds the mags i load hold lol they hold 9 dude not 8 .

    28. @Damian:

      Let’s both agree to disagree on our viewpoints about Desert Eagles. I look forward to exploring the 44 magnum caliber by buying a barrel. But let’s not waste time repeating our talking points. I hope you and I can share information in the future that helps us both……OK?

      If you happen to own a 44 magnum magazine that holds 9 rounds, maybe they made one like that in the past. I gathered my information by going to Magnum Research, clicking Accessories, magazines, and there it is for sale saying 8 rounds. If there happens to be a model that holds 9 rounds, I will inquire at Magnum Research before I’m ready to buy, because I would like 9 rounds myself.

      I’m happy that I made you laugh with my “piss me off” comment, just like you made me laugh with your “carpel tunnel” comment. Let’s both get over it and move on……..OK?

    29. @Secundius:

      No I had never heard of Ammo Grab. I just now went there and it’s a very good resource. It really sorts the ammo and lays all the prices out there for the best deals. I saved the shortcut.

      As far as bulk goes, I have never bought bulk. I have enough trouble with my gun hobby addiction as it is, so I’m usually trying to justify what little ammo I buy for all my different calibers. If bulk was a 30% or 40% savings, hey that’s another story. But it never is.

    30. @Secundius:

      Well I will say that .92 cents/round is pretty good for 50AE, but I’d rather stick with Hornady for such a large caliber. I’m not familiar with SAA ammo.

      Thanks for the heads-up on Ammo Grab!!

    31. @ ss1.

      As a Follow-Up, considering you mention buying Only Hornady Ammunition. Hornady has Sub-Contracted with Prvi Partizan Ammunition, to make hard to find Calibers like 8×57 (aka 7.9×57, aka 7.92×57) and other Mauser Calibers. I don’t know weather their going under the Hornady Label, or just say Hornady Approved. Sec…

    32. @Secundius:

      I inspected my Hornady 50AE boxes and they are 100% Hornady. Regarding that .92 cents/round SAA ammo, I entered “what is SAA ammo?” into Google this morning, and I found a forum at Calguns where people were discussing its lack of quality control. I just can’t take chances like that with such a large pistol caliber.

      I buy Prvi Partizan 198 grain soft points for my 8mm Mauser. The FMJ’s are extremely inaccurate for some odd reason, but the soft points are good. I also buy PPU practice ammo for my 2 10mm’s. It’s really cool that it’s so cheap and still JHP.

    33. @ ss1.

      You caught My Attention, were you using 8x57IR/JR’s or 8x57IS/JS rounds. Because 8x57IS/JS are specifically designed for Hunters and not Military. IS/JS usually have 1/3 to 1/2 the Range of there IR/JR Counterparts, because of the Type of Propellant’s they use…

    34. @Secundius:

      I have to use JS, no rims. It is what it is, the way the gun was chambered, correct?

      BTW, the other ammo that works very well for my Mauser is Federal PowerShock, 170 grains. These and the PPU 198 gr SP seem to be fairly close in groupings, whereas all other ammo I tried was all over the road map.

      This is a Century Arms Yugo. Never going to win any MOA contests, but I have it the way I want it now. Sporter wood stock with thumb hole, Timney trigger, nice scope, and I had the barrel cut to 18″. It fits into a very compact carrying case, and many times it’s sitting in the back of my SUV because it’s very portable. 40 rounds are in the case.

    35. @ ss1.

      IS and JS are rated at ~50,000psi Barrel Proof Test and IR/JR ~56,500psi barrel Proof Test, but that is at maximum. Rifles, are usually Barrel Tested at ~130% Bullet Load Test. So actual IS/JS is ~38,400psi Bullet and IR/JR is ~43,500psi Bullet. Check with you “Smithy” if he concur’s with safety of IR/JR’s for firing in your Rifle. Because you should be able too, safely. Sec…

    36. @Secundius:

      Actually I’m perfectly happy with the JS ammo I use. I have been through so much drama with my 8mm Mauser, so many trials and tribulations, so much ammo testing, that I have finally got it shooting well, and I finally understand it’s capabilities. All this occurred months ago though.

      This topic only leaked into our conversation because today you suggested that Hornady may be getting some ammo produced at PPU, and I disagreed on the 50AE concern, but I just wanted to point out (earlier today) that I’m a big fan of PPU for my 8mm Mauser and my 2 Glock 10MM’s.

    37. @ ss1.

      Back in the 90’s there was a .50AE Carbine I liked A Lot, before IT Came Along “Beowulf”. After that, I lost interest in the .50AE. NOW I can’t even remember it’s Name or Who Made it. Everytime I try to “Google” it, I get a Lot of “Wannabe’s”. But no Parent to the wannabe’s, Oh Well, memories…

    38. @ ss1.

      I found something you’d might like to “Sink your Remaining Teeth Into”, LOL. It’s called the M1 .50AE 502 “Thunder Sabre” Carbine, by Cloud Mt. Armory of Newberg, OR. (www. bigborecanyon. com). They Re-Barrel’d an M1 Carbine with a .45 Winchester Magnum Barrel to accommodate the .50AE Round. Maximum Range is ONLY ~114.3-meters (125-yards). Magazine Capacity is not know…

    39. @ ss1.

      Some “Recoil Reducers”, use a Nitrogen Charged Ram Shock Absorber instead of “Recoil Reduction Springs”. I’m not sure if they make them for Pistols, but its worth considering. Sec…

    40. @ Both ss1 and Damian.

      Check out the “Pimped” M1 Garand Stock Replacement from Sage International, called the M1GALCS/PMRI. The Brazilian Police captured a Number of them on a Raid. It might be on YouTube by now. Sec…

    41. Would never put my springfield garand into that monstrosity of a stock for an M1 lol. never total mil-surp blaspemy. But thanx for the laugh sec hideous to me man. They can keep it .

    42. @ Damian.

      Neither would I, With the possible exception of a Beretta BM-59 Folding Stock Conversion. At lest that way, It retains some if not most of the Garand’s Basic Appearance…

    43. I totaqlly dissagree–Zastava makes OUTSTANDING firearms 😉

      I have aseveral including a CZ999 (P226 clone) and a couple of AK M70’s. Bottom line is the Serbians and, in particular, that historic factory make fine quality small arms for amazingly affordable prices which, in getting back to the thread at hand, is a lot like Hi Point.

    44. @ Pro2AGuy.

      What’s most people are unaware of, that in Europe under German Occupation. Companies like Zastava were German Controlled, so Rigid German Standards were maintained at all times. The German’s had Manufacturing Facilities ALL OVER Europe, plus with Contributor’s like Switzerland, Sweden, Finland and Romania…

    45. @Secundius

      Great point. I was fortunate enough to have a really good Serbian Gent as my boss for several years and man oh man could he tell some stories both witnessed by himself as well as passed down by his Father. Region that has been immersed in conflict for centuries yet relatively quiet since NATO’s involvement some 25 yrs. back now…As you point out, though the German occupation and subsequent dismantlement of Yugoslavia etc. is a bleak part of Serbia’s history, if one were forced to cite a “Glass Half Full” example it would be the German engineering that was learned throughout the occupation (much like the rest of the world including ‘The Manhattan Project.”

    46. @ Pro2AGuy.

      What a lot of people (especially the US and Soviet Governments) didn’t know about ww2, was that Nazi-Germany had at least two Uranium Oxide U-235 “Dirty Bombs” in 1944. And Japan, two Uranium U-235 “Atomic Bombs” on 12 August 1945. A week after we (the USA) exploded our Atomic Bombs. Even Nazi-Germany, was unaware that the Japanese had Atomic Bomb Technology…

    47. @ Pro2AGuy.

      That’s OK, My mother was in Occupied Hungary in WW2. And her Father, my Grandfather was Forced too Fight in Stalingrad or see his Family and Himself go too a Concentration Camp for a Dose of SLOW DEATH by the SS…

    48. @Secundius Wow–that is some amazing history in general but to have family-ties/experiences to historically significant events and or tragedies such as the Battle for Stalingrad and Occupied Eastern Europe which would soon be encapsulated by the infamous “Iron Curtain” is truly remarkable.

    49. @Secundius:

      So tonight I noticed your family history came from the Eastern Block (not sure if that’s the proper way to describe it), and I just wanted to recommend a movie to you. Several months ago I saw a movie in the theater called Child 44. It is set in Russia during the Stalin era. I was fascinated by this movie, even though at the time I just stumbled into it at random. The cinematography and realism made me feel like I was really back in that time period. Plus I felt the tension that was present when you lived during that time period.

      Try to find it somewhere and watch it, if you want to see a really cool historical movie that may have been part of your family heritage. If I was a film critic, I would rate it 5 out of 5 stars.

    50. @ ss1.

      My father’s family I can trace back in American History to about 1810, as far a Europe a “Complete Blank”. My father told me, when his Father’s, Father’s came to this Country. That they Spoke “Bamish”, WHAT country speaks Bamish, UNKNOWN. The Country Doesn’t even EXIST Anymore, and has been Occupied, and Re-Occupied by so many other Countries, that the Language and Country is part of the Folklore of Who Ever Is Telling the Story.

      I read the Original Unabridged Book “Citizen X”, unfortunately in Stalin’s Soviet Union, the MGB, did more to Bury State Secrets, than Solve Crimes. Like “Gorky Park” or “The Holy Thief”, Exception’s to the RULE’s of Civilized Cultures…

    51. @Secundius:

      Here is a reply to all 4 messages you sent last night and this morning.

      * If you are well read on the Stalin era, please watch Child 44. Find it on DVD or On Demand (like your cable provider). I would really like your impression of that movie. Basically, to me, the “child 44” subject is only a sub plot. The larger plot is more intensive historical perspective of what it was like to be a soldier and an officer in Russia.

      * The SAA topic is because you sent me that website with many different types and sellers of ammo listed. You alerted me to the cheapest 50AE ammo being offered. I told you thanks for the website, but the cheapest 50AE ammo was SAA, or Surplus Ammo. I don’t buy surplus for my Desert Eagle. It’s like buying 3rd rate gasoline for a jet airplane, LOL. I’m trying to stay consistent with Hornady, but I have to tell you that I noticed some Federal Fusion 50AE on that website that looks exciting!

      * You were the one who told me about the 50 Beowulf. It’s a huge round much bigger than 50AE. Alexander Arms sells an AR in 50 Beowulf. It is a viable, high quality product, in other words not something put together on the fly by a gunsmith. The 50 Beowulf is on my top 5 short list of guns to buy, but lately I’ve been spending my money on non-gun things.

      * Regarding the Thunder Sabre Carbine, I’m not interested. I have my sights set on the 50 Beowulf.

      **** Have a good day! ****

    52. @ ss1.

      There’s this Famous Picture of Stalin, holding a Little Dark Haired Girl Up in the Air with a Big Smile on His Face. As both of Her Collective Farm Parents also Smiling Look On. I think it was Pre-WW2, the Little Girl was also a Child 44 State Child. Soon, after that Photo was Taken, Stalin had his NKVD Agents. Execute both Parents, just for Looking to Good For the Photo. Saying that they didn’t fit the Profile of Collective Farmers, the Little Girl was Placed in a Strict State Run Orphanage, where she DIED. At best estimates, Stalin had at least 80-Million to 108-Million of his fellow Soviet Citizens Executed.from 1924 to 1953.

      And the Ironic Part was, He wasn’t the Worst, Mao Zedong was. He had between 1/3 to 1/2 of the Chinese People Executed, just so he could Feed the Remaining Part of the Population. The “Cream of the Crop”, of the Population of China…

    53. Surplus 50 AE???When did the military of any country make surplus ammo in 50 AE? got me shaking my head on that 1 lol if they made surplus 44 mag would not go through my 44 mag Desert eagle ever agree on that sec +1. I do not even reload for it as the warranty is void if you use anything but what they reccomend using in the 44 DESERT Eagle and it is all Good commercial factory ammo they say stick 240 grain bullets in a 1540.00 dollar pistol i will stick with what is said to use by magnum reasearch only . .and @sec if you want to go big bore AR may i suggest and my son has 1 the lars 458 socom beast AR .Bigger than the 50 Beowolf and better ballistics and is a great round and superior rifle far as AR platforms go . It is truely a beast of a round and rifle .

    54. Add POL-POT to that list from the cambodian khmer ruge he killed millions as well in 60’s and 70’s .

    55. @Damian:

      I buy quality name brand ammo, ESPECIALLY for the Desert Eagle.

      While you and I were discussing the price of 50AE, Secundius pointed out a website that was showing some 50AE for .92 cents per round. I looked it up and told him that it was called SAA (never heard of it before) and the link showed it was for sale at SurplusAmmo d-o-t c*o*m.

      I’m not a surplus guy. I’m a quality guy. The big benefit I got out of the initial wesbite Secundius sent me (AmmoGrab) was that I discovered that Federal makes 50AE Fusion ammo. This was a surprise to me. I’m a huge Federal fan!!!! I will be buying it soon to expirement test with. Comparing recoil to the Hornady. Finding a way to compare penetration and expansion. That may be tough to figure out how to do, unless I buy a ballistic gel block.


      Thank you the 458 Socom AR recommendation. I’m looking at it right now on Google Images, and I can tell by the length and shape of the cartridge that it’s going to have really good ballistics. However, the ammo price is looking much more expensive than the 50 Beowulf. Compare them at Midway. Plus Cabelas has Beowulf even cheaper, but they don’t carry 458 Socom. CheaperThanDirt doesn’t have either of these, otherwise I would have used them here.

    56. @ Damian.

      Why is “Surplus” synonymous with “Military”, Surplus is generic, it can apply to “Anything”. I think in this Case, Surplus means “Overstocked”…

    57. I agree with you Secundius. Good point. I only have so much time to repsond sometimes so I didn’t figure that out.

    58. In every military rifle competition i ever competed in which are many the ammo was military SURPLUS, generic cheaper factory ammo is just that generic cheap ammo like the tula ammo from russia ,SURPLUS IS MILITARY ammo in all shooting circle of collecter sniper and garand rifle matches refer to it as military surplus ammo only allowed.. as far as the 458 socom goes my son saves his brass and either i or he reloads it but compared to the .50 beowolf it is far superior in every way the beowolf round is more of a hard target roud designed by spec ops guys for just that close range hard targets,ie vehicles ,lav’s,bunker busting , etc. where the 458 socom is made for lethality at range and will knock down anything walking most of planet earth DRT on spot 1 shot at distances the beowolf round could never do these ranges and drops like a rock my man i have fired them in many platforms including an m1 carbine that was experimental in 50 beowolf no way it can touch the 458 socom money well spent this is why i own a reloader i like big bores and wildcatted rounds so i keep cost down by handloading them all that i can except ak ammo cheaper to buy by case unless i am going for a tourney where i need accuracy .Go with the 458 you will glad of it over the 50 beowolf all day long my man.SURPLUS IS SURPLUS MILITARY AMMO .not generic as you say and i dont know of any country has ever mass produced it in 50 AE..Now for the 50 ae round .I have 5 ammo distributers mags here in the ammo for sale not 1 50 AE round or box is offered by CTD,SG,SGN,MIDWAY , cabelas .AMMO TO GO IS ONLY ONE SELLING IT BUT THEY ALL HAVE 458 AND 44 MAG .i rest my case on the 50 AE round and my dislike and no use for it .availabilty of ammo in shtf case and recoil that is not needed for anything i will do with any handgun.So again i say you can keep those 50 cal Desert eagles i will stick with my 44 DE all day every day.The 50 beowolf is great on close range stopping of hard targets it is not much good for anything else but what it was designed for close range hard targets ,windsheilds ,car doors ,light armor ,walls made of hard stone not a round good for much else in my view .especially targets at range .JMHO.

    59. @ Damian

      If your referring to the Model 502 “Thunder Sabre” .50AE (12.7×32.6) M1 Carbine, IT’S NOT Military. It’s Civilian with a “Trick-Out” Replaced .45WinMag. Barrel, Re-Bored to accept the .50AE Cartridge…

    60. No It was one a friend a of mine had his built for himself @ssk ind here in wintersville ohio.The miltary never made an M1 carbine in 50 beowolf lol are you kidding me? And to me i thought he ruined a nice collecter gun for a novelty gun end of it not practical or needed in real world for anything useful. Military making a relic 30 cal carbine into 50 beowolf yea right who said that? But they did have spec ops guys test a few ar platforms by changing the uppers to a .50 beowolf upper for engaging HARD TARGETS .So Again common sense failed you or lack of reading comprehension. . i did not say they did make that Thunder sabre carbine ..Now please do not respond to me this was a hi point 45 carbine thread now it is a pissing contest . about 50 cals lol. And i never claimed to be an einstien but i have common sense which most i have seen on this thread are lacking .He got the idea from a SGN article the idiot he was at the time took his carbine and had 1 made which in end he ended up selling for half of what a real M1 carbine now goes for on mil-surp market after he paid to have it bubbaed i just gave advice on a M92 muzzle break and why i preferred the 44 mag to a 50 AE DE . you are the guys flipped like the children you seem to be over my prefferences of calibersand platforms . You are welcome for my service to you and this countries freedoms so you can be like the person you are being on this thread now to me sir, i repeat YOU ARE WELCOME for those yrs .
      end of it .

    1. @Secundius:

      Let’s stay true to CTD. They provide a good service here and have excellent prices.

      The company that I have abandoned recently is Cabelas, because they are too high priced. I’ll go over there and hang out and talk to people and look at new and used guns, maybe buy some 7.62X39 ammo, but I will go back and buy guns and anything substantial from CTD.

      I’m very happy CTD is here for us!

    2. @ Secundius

      I checked out Centerfire Guns, and it’s a great site. Thanks!


      I understand what you’re saying, but you know, we all have to shop where we need to in order to acquire the tings we want and need. CTD is great and I have bought a lot from them, but their variable shipping charges and multiple warehouses mean that their shipping costs are extravagant. Beyond that, my transfer dealer says they are the worst company to deal with.

      This is America . . free enterprise, if someone offers and better price and better service . . they get the business. Trust me, CTD is doing fine. They need to revamp their warehouse shipping costs system.

    3. @Mikial:

      I’m not going to say I haven’t been frustrated by the multiple warehouses adding to shipping costs. I’m not going to say I haven’t ever bought ammo elsewhere on the net, and that I haven’t bought a gun at a retail store in person. I’ve done all of them because it is a free market.

      But I have bought 5 guns from CTD, and they were all really, really great deals. So if CTD is going to go to the trouble of presenting us with an article and review about a gun, I’m going to give them my business and not look for some obscure website that may have it a little bit cheaper. I have CONFIDENCE in dealing with CTD and I love their website.

      And if they post an article about a gun, and then everyone gets in the habit of posting up alternate websites with cheaper prices, then they may make changes. We may lose this privilege of having this forum and automatic emails every time someone posts something new. I used to be on a golf website where the forum was wild and crazy and 10 times more fun than this one. But people were getting out of control (including me), not following forum rules and acting like it was a dorm room. Some people started to get banned. and then one day the entire forum disappeared. And it was run by The Golf Channel, so it’s not like they couldn’t afford it. To this day I remember those times and I miss that forum.

      So I just don’t want CTD staff to make any marketing decisions that affect this forum if too many people start promoting other websites here.

      Another reason CTD needs our support is because when I’m talking to people in the gym or on the gun range, and I tell them about CTD, at least 70% have never heard of it. So with that in mind, do you think the Director Of Marketing or the CEO wants their forum to promote other websites and announce what transfer dealers think of them? No.

      I just post this for everyone to think about. I’m not trying to out-argue you or Secundius. Posting the other website price just really struck me the wrong way this morning.

    4. ss1

      I hear you, man. But I have been shopping with CTD since about 1981. I have bought numerous guns, knives, ammunition, sights, gear, even the UTG vest I took to Iraq and used for over two years.

      A gun blog is just that . . . an open forum. And I understand what you are saying, but trust me, they also use this blog in their marketing development calculations to gauge how consumers are responding to their various policies.

      I have spent many thousands of dollars at CTD, which is why I get their catalogs and emails and special offers. Believe me, they are not going to discontinue the blog or kick anyone off it. This is America . . a Capitalist economy and the customer is always right.. And any business that wants to STAY in business has to understand their customers and meet their expectations.

      CTD is a great company, but they made a mistake with their variable warehouse shipping. Their shipping is very high when compared to Sportsman’s Guide or Midway. Competition is what makes our system work.

      I am loyal and will continue to shop at CTD, but I do shop around and take the best deal. I do not go to work each week to ensure someone else succeeds in business at my expense.

    5. @Mikial: OK fair enough buddy. You made some good points. It is what it is. I can’t say more because I’m running out the door, but I think both of us said our piece anyways.

      Have a good night.

    6. @ Mikial.

      I have to agree, I live on a Fixed Pension, and LITTLE in the Way of Disposable Assets. So every PENNY goes somewhere, Usually in Territories I DON’T WANT TO GO TO “YET”…

    7. Heck at that price i may as well just buy 1 in .45 acp t/y sec my brother. hi 5’s what can i lose? really? cannot lose . far as melting rails lol it only has a what 13 rd at most full cap mag??I do not think at that pace of reloading even tactical if we had enough mags we will be melting rails off lol.with this rifle ever in our lifetimes . And i own several polymer stocked AK type rifles they have heat shields inside and i use shim material for gunsmitting as additional protection if i plan to use it in a competition including an rpk heavy barrel version i converted to all polymer stock set from zastava . For in home for her i think this is my answer and at under 300.00 dollars cannot lose no way no how thanx guys and i agree CTD has always treated me very well the shipping is high agree but it is fast and reliable and they ship what they advertiseand quickly i as well am glad we have such a great company for us, sportsmen, hunters and tactical shooters .

    8. I love CTD to be sure–but competition is good for America and Centerfiresystems is the real deal. That said, if CTD can match a price “IF” it’s found cheaper elsewhere I buy here.

    1. @Secundius:

      Hello friend, if you’re talking about that reply last night about Cali B&M, no I wasn’t offended. At the time I read it, I was going to say I’m holding out for a Saiga semi-auto, but then I thought no maybe I shouldn’t go off topic on the Hi-Point .45 ACP forum. You know when we read these things, sometimes our mind reacts one way, but on another day it reacts another way. So last night I just didn’t know how to reply.

      As far as Cali B&M goes, unless you get a benefit from mentioning them, it could lead people astray when reading your posts. That’s just my advice as your friend. An example of this is I like to hang out on sherdog d;o;t c;o;m for UFC news and forums, and the forums can be very annoying because many people have complicated signatures that detract from what they are commenting on in the topic.

      Hey thanks for saying you’re sorry, but you have never offended me. Have a good night.

    2. @ ss1.

      Several months ago, I was doing some research on a unrelated subject on “The Hill” Website, when in passing a website was mentioned with the Passage of words DP-12…Shotgun…Cali B&M…appeared.

      At the time I was TOO Focused on what I was doing to Put the Words together an seek out the meaning of the words. After doing the Research, I looked at some of my Jotted Down Notes, and saw the words again.

      And an “epiphany” occurred, and I painstakingly Back-Tracked my Foot-Steeps so to speak. And found the Website, to make a Long-Story-Short. It was a Complaint Website and Near the Bottom of the website was a Reference to Anyone Living in California, that they Could In Fact Purchase and Own the DP-12 Shotgun in California, with an Web Address on how to order one.

      SO, a Group of My Friends and I, BLANKETED a Website with the Information. And a Strange Thing Happen, NOTHING. People were Gripping about NOT being able to get the Shotgun, that they didn’t even bother to Read ANY of the Past Comments.

      About three-weeks ago, that changed “Piece-Meal”. One NIBBLE, then Became TWO and so-forth. Other than THIS Website, the total as far as I personally know, stands at 5. I have to get together with my out Friends to see What the Total Count Is. I’m Hopeful, BUT in a Pessimistic Way. Sec…

  22. I have both the 9mm and 45acp variants of these carbines. They are good bare-bones tools for throwing hot lead. They are not built to the highest tolerances, they use flimsy polymer rails that warp but they do keep firing. Ugly but functional should be the company motto.

    1. Now that is a new one–I’ve seen some AK polymer rails melt a bit after rapid fire but not a pistol carbine…The older Hi Point Carbines were totally different but even then I’ve never read of such. Pics please…

    2. @ Pro2AGuy.

      The problem with MOST, if not ALL “PCP-Polymer” based Accessories is, they tend to Melt if the Barrel Exceeds 350(deg)F. And after 10 or more Rounds, FIRED, IT WILL…

    3. I’ve seen even hi-end Arsenal AK’s “melt” under rapid-fire drills in certain environments (in fact, I believe there’s a YT video illustrating this just not sure if it’s an Arsenal). But personally I’ve not seen/read/heard of a pistol caliber carbine do so…If you know of one example plz point me to it.

    4. I like the “ugly but functional” description, although I’ve never had a rail warp.

      Lot’s of good things are ugly but functional, like the M3 .45 Grease Gun. Hell, I’m ugly but functional!

      But I have to agree with Pro2Aguy, I’d like to see an example of the rails warping.

  23. I have been looking at one of these for my wife to use at home when i go away on hunting and drilling in the field with my fellow local vets gun club .We like to keep our skills sharp as i carry a 45 officers model as my main carry gun everyday i have loaded many many diff rounds for the 45 acp. the sbr ak i made her i worry about overpenetration but she is only 4 ft 10 98 lbs and cannot handle a full sized ak or shotgun without support. i think this in 45 acp would be the answer with frangible ammo BUT i have heard good n bad about the high pint carbines so i think i will see just how many good reviews this carbine in 45 acp gets on this thread to make a final decision .A friend has 1 of the old original made yrs ago 9mm ones i personally did not care for that 1 but these newer updated models in 45 acp may be my answer for my tiny wife Great thread at perfect time .

    1. If its for your wife and she is a tiny women, you may also consider the .40 cal. and use Oath Ammo for it
      There is no chance of over penetration and these rounds fully expand at 3 inches into its target. There are quite wicked and extremely effective. I know from first hand experience.

      I own the 9mm, .40 and 45 of this hi-point carbine. The 9mm has the $40 scope which is actually really nice for the money. The 45 is iron sights and the .40 is the BSA red dot with the flash light for HD. Its the 3rd gun I would reach for right ahead of the AR. 1st is the 12ga with slugs, 2nd is the Glock 21, 3rd is the HP 40 carbine. ALL with the Oath ammo. There is nothing about this gun that is too much recoil with the adsorbing stack or too much power with the pistol rounds. For $300 it is either this or a .410. which is not a bad option either with 00 buck. I think Weatherby mays one. I would never have one cause I am 6’5″ and a 410 is a pellet gun to me. AND the HP has a LIFETIME warranty. There is not another firearm on the market that offers a warranty that will keep that gun working or will replace it FREE, FOREVER, no matter what. even if you drop it skydiving and it hits the ground and breaks into 1,000 pieces. if it does not work they will make it work or replace it. Same with all their pistols. You may as well get the combo pack, $300 for the Carbine and $120 for the pistol.

    2. Thanx guys above with said info .The only prob with a .40 cal model is i do not own a single .40 cal firearm i have always stuck with the .45 acp for carry @ home myself plus i have a moss 500 in closet with all the bells and whistles for home defense i use frangible 00 buck in the house i were to have to .Recoil is not a big prob for her she shoots all my hard kicking mosins and other mil-surp and hi power rifles and loves it she just has small hands, short arms ,and is 98 lbs lol and not big enough to use them without a rest for the rifles weight or i would consider the .40 i am hoping they have 1 in a local gun store such as cabelas i can have her hold it ,feel it ,and shoulder it in .45 acp. If she can and all reviews on this thread are positive i am going to get it for her tho she loves her SBR AK, a now tax stamped M92 serbian altered pistol ak with muzzle break ,etc. just not good for in house in city where we live neighbors are very close indeed it would overpenetrate i am sure even with SP ammo . That i do not want to ever happen .I think this may be my answer for her .

    3. @Vector16

      I went to the Armslist site and the prices were ridiculous. I can buy the same guns cheaper at GunBroker, CTD, CDNN, and Sportsman’s Guide.

      Check them out and you will agree.

    4. @ Damian.

      Have you considered a Recoil Reducing Spring of between 16 to 18.5-pounds. Usually perfect of Small Framed People of 5-feet or less, or even Handicapped People with Advanced Rheumatoid Arthritis.

      Cali B&M…

    5. That’s a good idea. I did put a 20lb recoil spring on my 1911. It does help quite a bit with the recoil. But with this carbine you really don’t need it and I don’t even think you can one anyway. It really does not have that much recoil anyway. Depending on where you live and what your local range has to offer, You might be able to take your wife to the range and rent one.

      My local range have 2 of every gun they sell for rent. Its a great option at least. I always go down there and shoot the gun I am interested in before I purchased it. That what I did with my Glock 17.

      I was interested in a 9mm. It was going to be a M7P, glock 17 or XD 9mm. Went and fired all three firearms and ended up with the glock.

  24. I really don’t need another .45ACP (11.43×22.8) Carbine, because I already have two. One Model 1911 converted into an Artillery Pistol and the other being a Mauser 98k converted to Chamber the .45ACP. But there are several feature’s I’d like to incorporate into my existing .45ACP “Menagerie”. I wonder if their any “After Market” Accessories Available.

    Cali B&M…

    1. @Secundius:

      I wish I could see a photo of your 1911 artillery pistol. It sounds pretty cool.

      Can you explain what Cali B&M means?

    2. @ ss1.

      The Conversion and Recertification cost me more than 3 & 1/2-times the Original Gun Value of ~$399.99 USD in 1983 prices. Not one on my Better Idea’s at the Time.

      My First Fish Catch of the Day! No Pun Intended!! A group of My Friend’s and I, have been putting out the Website Location for Anyone Living In California. That want’s to BUY the DP-12 Double-Barrel, Double-Pump Shotgun. Just contact Cali B&M, to Order One, Five-People I’ve Talked Too Already Have.

      Cali B&M. Sec…

  25. Hi-Point has always made inexpensive firearms. Have owned a carbine in .9mm. Talked to a tech once about their ‘Lifetime Warranty’. In brief, he told me; ‘It doesn’t matter where you obtain your weapon, original owner, 2nd owner, or if you found in lying in a ditch somewhere, if there is a problem, Hi-Point will repair it. If we can’t repair it, we will replace it, free of charge and even pay the shipping’. Get that deal from Colt, Smith & Wesson, or such.

    1. Amen, Roy.

      I had a .380 I bought at a yard sale. Shot the daylights out of it getting ready for a deployment, well over a full case of ammo in a two month period. Then, while cleaning I lost a spring, through no fault of the gun.

      I called the factory, and they sent me the parts right out. Gave the gun to my step-daughter for home defense when i left for Iraq with complete confidence that it would do the job for her and her no account husband. Yeah, they got divorced.

  26. I have the 9mm (2 of them) carbine and pistol and the 45 carbine and pistol. All are accurate great shooters. Very cheap to buy, lifetime warranty (how many thousands dollar pistols and carbines offer that?) And I have never had any problems with any of them. As reliable as a glock in my opinion, just rounded edges instead of 90 degree edges.And 1/3 or less the price. Got a 9mm pistol for one son for cc and a 45 pistol for the other one for hunting in case of hog attack.

  27. I have both the 9mm & 45acp and they are outstanding carbines for the money. That said, I wish they would accept hi-cap mags like the Kel-Tec Sub-2K which will cycle 33 rounders.

    1. I used to have a friend that had a 4095ts and he rigged up a mag that worked well. he took a 10 round mag , cut out the bottom and welded on a second with another spring. He made a few 18 round single stack mags for it.

  28. I’ve owned several Hi Points over the years and currently have a .45 pistol and a ,45 carbine. They’re great, inexpensive guns that work well and shoot consistently.

    I had a problem with my carbine the first time I shot it. No idea how it happened, but the firing pin got tweaked and the bolt wouldn’t cycle properly. No biggie, guns are machines and machines sometimes have problems, so I called the factory. They put me on with a tech, we talked for a few minutes and he accurately diagnosed the problem from my description of the symptoms, and they sent me the parts I needed to fix it. No drama. No “return it to the factory” ordeal. Just good service.

    Compare this to my DPMS that had extraction issues. After 6 months of screwing around and returning it to the factory where they still did not fix it, I finally installed a Buffer Tech extractor kit to fix it myself. You only get what you pay for? Well, at over $700 for the DPMS and under $300 for the Hi Point, I know which I would recommend to anybody and which I wouldn’t.

  29. These ROCK!! I have the .45, 40, and 9mm. They area little heavy but a snap to clean even tho they don’t need to be cleaned. All are very accurate and very durable. They are great pack guns or just go out a shoot.

    1. .45 ACP has short burning powder so that all is burned before getting out of the 1911 barrel. Anymore barrel just adds slowdown drag and less muzzle vel. USMC team shooter shoots at 50 yds. No prob for me to hit things far out.
      For a new beginning shooter it should be great gun.

    2. I own a Hi-Point 9mm carbine, and I wish I would have bought the 45 instead, because my purpose is stopping power without penetrating walls of homes and hurting innocent people.

      I totally disagree with the Team Shooter guy’s statement about barrel length. I feel the carbine will increase velocity, giving the 45 ACP the extra punch it needs since it’s a low velocity round anyways. The carbine will have more accuracy, more ability to stay on target, and more power than a 1911 pistol. It is very light and maneuverable and a different league than a rifle. So it beats the 1911 for home defense for so much less money. But if another magazine is necessary, that’s where a 1911 can surpass the carbine in performance, since I don’t like the awkwardness of magazine changes on the Hi-Point.

      When I say more accuracy, I can hit head shots at 90% at 50 yards, and body shots at 90% at 100 yards, with my 9mm.

    3. Hey, ss1, how ya doing?

      I agree with you. Increased barrel length most often = increased velocity and the longer distance between the front and rear sights equal greater accuracy.

      Of course, for home defense you are not going to be shooting at extended ranges, usually not more than 10 – 15 feet. But, if you were in an extreme situation, such as a dirt bag holding a knife or gun to a loved one’s throat, you would want to be able to make a one shot kill with accurate placement.

      My carbine is not actually my first choice, but it is at the ready with a loaded mag and a nice light mounted on it. To be completely honest, my first choice in the dark of the night is a 12 gauge Saiga with a light and a 10 round magazine loaded with 00 buckshot. We have no children and the door to our room is locked with an anti-intrusion device fitted to the door so no worry about shooting a family member. No close neighbors either. If someone comes to our door, they are dead meat.

      But the Hi Point carbine and a Glock 21, both with lights, are close at hand.

    4. Hi Mikial.

      You ask how I’m doing tonight? Well I did 50 minutes of ellipticals in the gym (forward and lateral) and I’m working on my 3rd shot of tequila (just sipping them), and I’m feeling really good, LOL.

      Wow I’m really jealous that you have no close neighbors, for multiple reasons. If I had no close neighbors, that would totally affect what weapons I had ready at home.

      Regarding the 12 gauge Saiga, is that the semi-auto version with the big magazine that looks like an AK magazine? If so, that is an awesome weapon to have ready to rock and roll, and it is definitely in my top 3 wishlist that I want to purchase. At one point in time there was a dealer on GunsAmerica who was hotrodding them and making them much more reliable. It definitely is TOP CHOICE for home defense, even if you have close neighbors.

      Regarding your scenario about a dirt bag holding a knife to my loved one’s throat, I would trust my Hi-Point 9mm more than any of my other rifles or pistols. It’s really interesting how sometimes the cheapest weapon can be the most effective in certain situations.

    5. Sir,

      I have clocked the .45 ACP in the High Point and also the Thompson semi auto carbine. There is indeed a modest velocity increase. The 9mm may gain more but the .45 ACP gains 50 to 90 FPS. I am familiar with the drag theory, and have experienced this when firing the .32 ACP in a chamber adapter for the .30-06, but this does not apply to the High Point. We are getting a useful increase similar to that achieved by the barrel extension sleeve sometimes used in artillery. Even though the sleeve was smooth bore, it added to the velocity of the shell.

    6. @Bob.

      I like people who do their homework and speak from facts not opinions. I was going to say something about this, but didn’t because i haven’t timed the rounds.

      Thank you.

    7. @ Bob Campbell.

      With my 98k Mauser re-bored to accept .45ACP (12×22.8mm) FMJ 230-grain bullet, I can achieve 1,124.378ft/sec. Muzzle Velocity from a 24-inch barrel. A typical Barrel Insert (.32ACP/.380ACP to .45ACP) is about $100.00 USD. As for a 9×19 to .45ACP, I’ve Never Tried.

      Cali B&M…

    8. @ bobcampbell ,
      Why would you- as a military collecter i have to ask ever rebore a K98 mauser to .45 acp? I do have an lsr type K98 was done in 8mm.06 great shooter and hunting round i have to reload by renecking the 30.06 case to accept the 8mm bullet of .323 dia. but shame it ever got rechambered at all but 45 acp?that just makes o sense to me as to why a pistol round in a mauser? I guess we all have our reasons lol.But to me that was a very bad choice lol.JMHO

    9. @ Damian.

      I’m a Bolt Action Shooter, for me I can Spend Hours on the Rifle Range with a Dopp Bag with 20 or 30, 21-Rounds M1911 Magazines and Pass The Time Away. And .45APC is a Hell Of A Lot Cheaper than Stripper Clips of 7.92×57 Mauser or 6.5×55 Swedish/Mauser. I’m In No Hurry…

    10. Just seems a waste of a good mil-surp collectible rifle to chamber it for a pistol round that is not moving much faster than the 200 grain jhp ammo i use in my 45 carry pistol out of the 24 inch barrel to do that but to each their own man and i can reload a box of 8mm mauser fmjbt 150 grain for about 4.00 a box of 50? maybe 5.00 dont see the savings man but as i said JMHO .

    11. @ Damian.

      I can also use for Home Defense To. A 230-grain FMJ .45APC with 1,124-ft/sec Muzzle Velocity. And if I go to .45ACP+P, your looking at ~1,500-ft/sec Muzzle Velocity. Outside, with a 24-inch Barrel I can “Still Reach Out And Touch Someone” At 500-Meter Plus Ranges. But even at 300-meters, the Bullet is STILL traveling at ~1,000-ft/sec., can’t get that with a Standard Issue Colt M1911 .45ACP. I have Few Pleasure in Life, Anymore. This is Just One of Them. Better Stop, Know I Starting to get “Maudlin”. Take Car Brother. Sec…

    12. @sec,
      well sec i like you you give great input and advice to this forum .I as the collecter of mil-surps that i am would have chosen a diff model that was allready sported up and in need of a new barrel anyhow .It is what you want it to be all that matters and porobably a unique 1 i doubt there is another on planet really lol. And if it works for you all that matters lets stay friends and on topic t/y for the great advice my intent was never to insult in any way.More just curious is all.

      sult just curious.K98’S are getting to be hi-dollar now on clooecter market .

    13. @ Damian.

      I have twp Zastava M48 (98k Mauser’s), Both models a Stock Issues. So I replaced them with ProMag Polymer Stocks, giving them the Steyr Scout Look. The WORSE of the two, I had Rebored to 12mm to accommodate the .45APC Bullet. The other is Standard 7.92×57 in exact 98k Mauser Standards, with the exception of the Polymer Stock. My next buy will probably be either a Gewehr 43 in 7.92×57 German/Garand or the .30-06 Waffen-Greger Bar II Bullpup Rifle…

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