Breathing New Life Into Old Cartridges

Enfield revolver opened with ammunition

We probably have more handgun calibers than we need. Some should be allowed to die a quite death. Just the same, during my career I remember scrambling to locate and actually fire such oddities as the 7.65 French Long, .32 Rimfire, and the .41 Rimfire. Quite a few old numbers might be useful even in modern times. Then there is the family heirloom that we just may want to fire.

Enfield revolver opened with ammunition
The Enfield has been fired extensively and is a fun revolver to use.

Firing an old handgun that once belonged to someone 100 or more years ago is like shaking hands with the past. We just like to get the feel of the implements of the day. However, our overwhelming concern must be safety. There have always been more cheap guns than good guns, and some were none too safe even when they were new.

For example, the .41 Remington Derringer I tested is made of soft iron. It is famous for breaking at the hinge point. however, it sends its bullet along at about 550 fps! On the other hand, the .32 French Long is like owning a .32 Magnum automatic. I have handloaded the Hornady 60-grain XTP to well over 1,150 fps in this well made pistol. In a pinch, some of the older handguns might be pressed into service, if there just isn’t anything else available. But otherwise, their use is for recreational value only.

.38 Short Colt and .38 Long Colt

These cartridges are immediate ancestors of the .38 Special. The groove and land diameter varied in early handguns. The .36 Colt Navy had a respectable reputation due to the fact that it had enough velocity to cause expansion in its .375-inch ball.

Box of old .32 rimfire ammunition
.32 Rimfire loads were quite a catch—so anything is possible!

When cartridge conversions were undertaken, the .38 Rimfire was developed. The outside lubricated heel-based bullets picked up a lot of lint and were not as robust as the later inside lubricated bullet.

The centerfire .38 Colt cartridges featured the type of crimp we know today. Firing them in Navy Colt conversions gave problematic accuracy at best. The later purpose designed .38s, such as the Colt Lightning double-action revolver, were more accurate.

I own a rather homely Hopkins and Allen double-action .38 that was minted some time prior to 1900. There were many more cheap guns than expensive guns then—the same as today. The Hopkins and Allen was among the more useful. As a hideout, or for those on a budget, the gun had appeal. I checked mine as thoroughly as possible for safety. It locks up tight and functions.

I do not recommend firing such an old revolver, but it is what I do. I test fired the piece under controlled conditions, using a remote trigger and fixture. I used custom grade ammunition from Jamison Brass and Ammunition. This company loads difficult to find ammunition and offers brass for reloaders. It ended up working quite well.

Colt Police Positive revolver left profile
The Colt Police Positive is a piece of history. Fiocchi loads are clean burning and accurate.

At seven yards, the old .38 would group three shots into 4 inches. This was a good standard for the day. The same load grouped three shots into 1.1 inches at 25 yards with the Colt Python. These loads are well suited to older revolvers, such as the Colt Lightning and the Colt 1892.

.38 Smith and Wesson

The short, fat .38 Smith and Wesson will not chamber in the .38 Special. If you have a .38 Special Military and Police that accepts the .38 Smith and Wesson, it is an ex-British Victory Model. Many of these chambered for the .38 Smith and Wesson, and famously loaded with a 200-grain bullet, were bored out after the war to take the .38 Special. This isn’t rechambering! These butchered guns swell cases when fired with the .38 Special, since the .38 Smith and Wesson has a smaller head diameter. It would be a disaster to fire a .38 Special +P in these revolvers.

There are three classes of .38 Smith and Wesson revolvers. The first are the break top type, usually five shot, double-action revolvers. Examples of the breed were manufactured well into the 1930s. H and R offered a version at least into the early 1970s, with a long barrel and target grips. These revolvers must be fired only with standard loads, which means a 146-grain RNL bullet at 700 fps.

.38 Short Colt and .38 Long Colt loads
.38 Short Colt and .38 Long Colt loads are cutting about 700 fps with 125- and 158-grain bullets, respectively.

At one time, conversion cylinders for the .38 Special wadcutter were offered. They are very rare today. The second class are the large frame revolvers, such as the Colt Police Positive and the Smith and Wesson Military and Police. In these revolvers, the short .38 is a very accurate loading. These revolvers will take .38 Special class pressure. A handload worked up in these revolvers is versatile, but if it found its way into a break top pocket gun, the result would be a disaster.

The next class is the break top Webley and Enfield type. When the British adopted a .38 caliber revolver and replaced the .455, they realized that engineering would only allow a short cartridge. The .38 Smith and Wesson with a 200-grain bullet was adopted. Sometimes called the .380 Revolver or the .38/200, I have handloaded these with the Magnus 2200-grain RNL bullet to 775 fps. These loads demonstrate excellent penetration.

For this test, I selected three representative revolvers. First up was a vintage Iver Johnson top break. I have fired it a little and found it to be safe. Next was an original transitional Colt marked New Police, but it is a Colt Police Positive.

The six-shot double-action-only Enfield is, in my opinion, the best designed combat revolver ever manufactured. The high sights are very fast to pick up, and the revolver offers excellent hit probability. With the difficult to find speedloaders, it is a fast revolver to reload. The problem is the cartridge. It isn’t powerful enough for personal defense. Just the same, the Brits got by with the revolver as a badge of office and taking prisoners at gun point.

Enfield cylinder loaded with Buffalo Bore cylinder
There were no excess pressure signs with the Enfield/Buffalo Bore combination.

I have fired the Iver Johnson with PPU ammunition. It breaks 570 fps and from the Colt Police Positive, 588 fps. The Colt isn’t made for accuracy, but a two-inch 7-yard group was fired. Fiocchi’s 146-grain RNL is more energetic and breaks 717 fps from the Colt, with superior accuracy. Firing from the Enfield DAO with care, I have fired a two-inch 15 yard group.

Buffalo Bore offers a modern loading that is designed to get the many Military and Police and Official Police revolvers up off their knees and into useful personal defense category. This load must NEVER be fired in break top revolvers of the early 20th Century type. The Enfield, however, is rated for this load. Just the same, use caution.

When handloading the .38 S&W in solid frame revolvers, I have coaxed a 158-grain SWC to 850 fps. Buffalo Bore dropped the weight to 125 grains, and using a hard cast SWC achieves 917 fps from the Colt Police Positive and 1,015 fps from the Enfield. This certainly gets the revolvers into the useful range. I keep an Enfield stashed in a hideaway in this 110 year old house, and it is loaded with the Buffalo Bore loading.

Bob Campbell shooting an old revolver
At the exact moment of firing, there is no muzzle flip with this combination—a big plus in the view of the British Army that adopted the piece.

.32 H and R Magnum

The .32 H and R Magnum isn’t an older cartridge, but to the best of my knowledge no revolvers are currently chambered for this cartridge. My only .32 is whimsical purchase that I have enjoyed very much. After much good service with the Heritage .22 revolvers, I obtained an example of their 3-inch barrel, Birdshead grip revolver, a piece long out of production. Most factory loads do not impress. Buffalo Bore offers a 100-grain JHP at a strong 1,100 fps. This gets the revolver into field-grade power, and would serve against coyote at moderate range. A hard cast 115-grain bullet from Buffalo Bore achieves about the same velocity. I like these loads. This little gun isn’t that accurate, but it is easy to use well, and it is certainly up to the task of popping pests to 15 yards or more.

With careful searching you will be able to get older revolvers up and running and find them useful for recreational shooting. Back to the wall some will serve for personal defense and give the owner a measure of peace of mind.

Do you own a really cool old revolver? What model? Share your answer in the comment section.


About the Author:

Bob Campbell

Bob Campbell’s primary qualification is a lifelong love of firearms, writing, and scholarship. He holds a degree in Criminal Justice but is an autodidact in matters important to his readers. Campbell considers unarmed skills the first line of defense and the handgun the last resort. (He gets it honest- his uncle Jerry Campbell is in the Boxer’s Hall of Fame.)

Campbell has authored well over 6,000 articles columns and reviews and fourteen books for major publishers including Gun Digest, Skyhorse and Paladin Press. Campbell served as a peace officer and security professional and has made hundreds of arrests and been injured on the job more than once.

He has written curriculum on the university level, served as a lead missionary, and is desperately in love with Joyce. He is training his grandchildren not to be snowflakes. At an age when many are thinking of retirement, Bob is working a 60-hour week and awaits being taken up in a whirlwind many years in the future.

Published in
Black Belt Magazine
Combat Handguns
Rifle Magazine
Gun Digest
Gun World
Tactical World
SWAT Magazine
American Gunsmith
Gun Tests Magazine
Women and Guns
The Journal Voice of American Law Enforcement
Police Magazine
Law Enforcement Technology
The Firearms Instructor
Tactical World
Concealed Carry Magazine
Concealed Carry Handguns

Books published

Holsters for Combat and Concealed Carry
The 1911 Automatic Pistol
The Handgun in Personal Defense
The Illustrated Guide to Handgun Skills
The Hunter and the Hunted
The Gun Digest Book of Personal Defense
The Gun Digest Book of the 1911
The Gun Digest Book of the 1911 second edition
Dealing with the Great Ammunition Shortage
Commando Gunsmithing
The Ultimate Book of Gunfighting
Preppers Guide to Rifles
Preppers Guide to Shotguns
The Accurate Handgun
The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt!'s blog, The Shooter's Log, is to provide information—not opinions—to our customers and the shooting community. We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. The information provided here does not represent the views of Cheaper Than Dirt!

Comments (31)

  1. I have a Webley Mk 6 and need all info I can get , also ammo and who still makes .455 rounds . What steps I need to take before I go to the range to make sure it is safe to fire since it is 102 years old and looks in good shape. My thanks DDog

    1. First visit a gunsmith and have the gun checked. Check Cheaper Than Dirt, among others about the ammunition. Someone makes ammo for outdated/obscure calibers (although I don’t remember who at the moment) and I have seen different types listed on one or more of those sites.

  2. I have a m&p model 17 in a 32-20 could use any info on the gun and ammunition, have two boxes of 32-20 rifle ammo , can I use it, the gun in in great shape, thanks big al from Oklahoma.

    1. Alan

      The M and P prior to 1957 doesnt have a designation and the .32-20 was the Model Ten after ’57. Which one do you have?
      Ammunition marked RIFLE ONLY is dangerous for the handguns. However there is some collector value for the ammo so you are not stuck.
      .32-20 WCF is fine for the revolver, however, rifle only marked boxes would be dangerous. What ammo do you have?l .

    2. Big Al, you might want to check to see if the .32-20 ammunition will fit in the revolver. Most of the rifle ammunition in that caliber is slightly longer than the pistol ammunition was. It is also loaded to higher pressures most of the time. If it doesn’t fit due to length, avoid trying to make it fit. Most reloading manuals only have the rifle loadings. There is probably a good reason that they are not listed fot pistols. Just my opinion.

  3. I inherited a pistol that my grandfather gave to my mother for protection when she was just a girl and going off to college. It is a (BISLEY MODEL) 32 W.C.F. It has a PAT .19. 1871 on the left side just below the 6 round cartridge revolver and a Serial # of 284940 on the frame and trigger assy. An emerging gunsmith uncle of mine, in aall of his wisdom, polished and re-blued the pistol and the matching rifle that also shoots the 32-20 ammunition. The pistol is a pleasure to shoot and very accurate but ammunition is getting hard to find. Some lady friends of mine love the gun as the heavy frame absorbs the recoil nicely.

  4. I have a S & W 1923 U.S. ARMY MODEL, 45 CAL. this gun is at the least eighty years old. It looks to be good shape and has not been fired in fifty years. I was wondering if it would be safe to shoot it with todays ammuntion ?

    1. Are you certain it isnt a Model 1917?

      These DA .45s are safe with modern .45 ACP 230 grain FMJ loads. You must use moon clips to fire the .45 ACP and eject it normally.

  5. My oldest firearm turned 135 years old this month. A Smith & Wesson .44 Double Action Frontier.
    TYPE: Top Break, S/N: 20xx, CALIBER: .44-40, BARREL LENGTH: 5″, SIGHTS: Fixed, FINISH: Blue, STOCKS: MOP, SHIPPED: January 1883

  6. Years ago I picked up a never issued Russian 7.65 Nagant with a .32 ACP conversion cylinder. The conversion seemed to time and lock up just fine. Shoots CZ 7.65 submachine pistol ammo like a moon beam, but some of them split. Probably not my best idea this century. SAAMI .32 ACP loaded
    ammo and equivalent re-loads shoot just fine.

    1. Had the same problem with Russian mil sup. Had to use a wood dowel to drive cartridge cases out of the cylinder once fired, (didn’t want to take a chance on bending the ejector rod.) I do not have that issue with PPU or Fiocchi ammo. Mine was made in 1923 and looks like it just left the factory.
      It’s a fun revolver and I enjoy shooting it. I’ve heard all the comments about Russian farm machinery that goes bang but I’de rather have a Nagant than empty pockets if push comes to shove.

  7. I have an old Colt Police Positive that I purchased years ago. It is chambered in 38 Smith and Wesson. While I do have a couple of boxes of ammunition for it, I have yet to fire it. It was purchased by me because of the interesting history of the pistol. The back strap has ‘Adams Express Company’ stamped on it as well as what appears to be a company stock number on the base of the grip frame.

    1. Robert…. This is the third time I have tried to give you a reply on thePolice Positive . I have an old one just like in the article picture and it shoots fine and is very accurate. If you do not have any deep rust pits in cylinder or barrel then you have a sweet shooting gun. my favorite load is the 148 grain wad cutter but have also shot the 158 grain round nose as well. Stay from hot loads and the plus P ammo.

  8. I was given a Rohm 38 Special a number of years ago. The original owner had shot about 5-6 rounds through it so it is little used. I have played with it trying my best to get the trigger pull at a reasonable level. So far, using just RNL rounds I have been able to put 5 rounds in about 6 inches. The trigger pull is about 8 pounds in SA. I don’t even try to shoot this gun DA. I don’t shoot it much, but it is a nice change from all my other handguns.

  9. I picked up an old Iver Johnson Cadet solid frame in 38 S&W for just under $99.
    It’s a soft shooter and great for getting someone started out who is new to shooting.

  10. I inherited my Dad’s collection including a .38 Long colt revolver supposedly from the WWI era with US Gov’t,. markings and a lanyard loop. I shot some .38 special wad cutters 140gr. and it shaved lead which I deemed dangerous, although the cylinder locked up OK. I then tried lower gr. .38 spl. reloads which worked better, but then decided not to shoot the old girl anymore.

  11. I have a H&R revolver in .38 S&W, and, even though the grips are so small, I love to shoot it. I ordered some bullets from PPU and it functions quite well. A word of correction however: The .38 S&W round will fit in, and fire just fine from a .38 special, BUT not the other way around. I know, because I’ve fired the PPU bullets in a Charter Arms .38 special.

    1. Joe
      Thanks for reading.

      The .38 Smith and Wesson is fatter than the .38 Special and WILL NOT chamber and fire in .38 Special cylinders, save for the butchered victory model revolvers converted after WWII. The .38 Colt will work in the .38 Special.

  12. I must point out an issue with your otherwise excellent article. I just purchased a new manufacture Charter Arms snub nose in .32 H&R for my aging mother. At 16oz’s and with .32 Long wadcutters she thinks she’s shooting a .22LR. Fit and finish is what you’d expect with Charter but it functions well and is accurate for her. This may very well be the only .32H&R being produced today other than derringers but non the less I own the proof.

  13. While not old, I have a Ruger .32 Federal Magnum. It shoots .32 short; .32 Long; .32 H&R Mag, and of course the Federal Mag. It is as well built as all Rugers, and is a lot of fun to shoot. The lighter loads are about like a .22 or .22 mag.

  14. Great article! Quick question, doesn’t Ruger currently manufacture revolvers in 327mag, the magnum magnum of the 32HR? Also, doesn’t the 327mag chamber most of the 32 revolver ammo, 32HRmag, 32special, 32 SW long, and 32SWshort?

    1. Yep,
      Ruger makes the .327 Magnum GP100 and it will accept all of those cartridges.
      Thanks for reading

  15. need to get a better proof-checker
    ‘2200 grain bullet’? for the 38 S&W?
    the 38S&W is larger than the 38S&W Spc. not smaller that’s why the special will swell and split when fired in one of the converted Victory revolvers.
    otherwise good article on older cartridges. i own several of these calibers and shoot them occasionally. even have a cpl of boxes of 180 gr brit military ammo

  16. I have a .38 S&W 5 shot Harrington & Richardson break top. From all the research I’ve been able to do it’s an Auto Ejecting Third Model, first variation. I believe it was made in 1905 and at one time belonged to a New York City police officer as it has a deeply cut second serial number etched on the butt. The finish is good without any deep pitting and shoots very well. My daughter presently has it as a home protection piece. We fire monthly on our indoor range. The only problem we’ve found is that the break pivot screw sometimes loosens slightly.

  17. Re: 32 H&R Magnum – in 2011 I purchased a new .32 H&R Magnum Single Action revolver from Ruger. It is stainless with a birds head grip. The one I purchased is a John Wayne Commemorative, so I haven’t fired it.

  18. I traded a Taurus PT145 for a Husqvarna Model 1887 6-shot Revolver with a 4.5″ octagonal barrel in straw and blue finish manufactured for the Swedish military in 1908. It’s in perfect condition and shoots modern 32 S&W Short, 32 S&W Long and 32 H&R Magnum. Best trade I ever made.

  19. I inherited a colt 38-40 5inch nickle plated, that according to colts serial # was made in 1917. I bought ammo, but am trying to preserve it, do you know the pistol. I am pretty sure 5″ barrel.down in the safe to lazy to go measure on a scale of 1-10 I give it an 8. very minor pinpoints in a few spots wood grip perfect. no issues I can see. It kind of resembles a python.I said kind . thanks

    1. What a find!

      I would shoot that old gun if it is in good mechanical condition.

      This is among the strongest handguns ever built.

      .38 40 cowboy loads are available from Black Hills Ammunition. They are loaded light and will be accurate in period revolvers.

  20. I shoot a Colt Police Positive Special in 32 WCF, it is a tack driver. I cast the Original 118 gr bullet cast from an original Ideal mold. I also shoot a .Ruger Single-Six chambered for 32 H&R Magnum. while factory loads are not much more than glorified .32 S&W longs, hand loads really make this round perform. I am able to get 85 gr JHP bullets to leave the muzzle at approx.. 1400 fps and 100 gr cast lead bullets nearly 1300 fps. it is deadly at ranges up do 100 yards. because of the weak H&R revolver it was designed to operate in, factory loads, in their anemic state never really caught on, and the cartridge faded away. had the cartridge been factory loaded to its true potential, and the H&R revolver been constructed a little stouter, I believe this misunderstood cartridge would have caught on. I still think it deserves a closer look by anyone wanting a light mild varmint and small game handgun.

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