News

VA Sending Veterans’ Mental Health Information to FBI to Restrict Gun Ownership

Patrick Howley of the Daily Caller has written that mental health information collected by the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) is being transferred to the FBI so patients can be added to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) list of individuals restricted from owning or possessing guns.

According to Howley’s Daily Caller article, the VA said in a responding statement: “The Department of Veterans Affairs’ policy to inform veterans of their rights regarding the Brady Act has not changed. As has been policy for multiple administrations, VA acts in accordance with federal law and works with the Department of Justice to properly maintain the NICS database. VA notifies any veteran who may be deemed by VA to be mentally incapable of managing his or her own funds of the opportunity to contest this determination and also to seek relief from the reporting requirements under the Brady Act, as required by law.”Seal_of_the_United_States_Department_of_Veterans_Affairs In response to the Daily Caller article, the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity issued a statement, asking: Where is the recognition that the rights at issue here are explicitly protected in the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution? It seems the VA values a vague reference to “policy for multiple administrations” above the Constitution. What of the long-respected American legal protection of doctor-patient confidentiality? How can the VA claim that its actions are justified because it informs patients of the privacy-violating, rights-restricting policy it uses against patients? Patients may logically choose to waive confidentiality to some degree in some instances, but this seems far from a fair waiver situation. It looks more like duress. Where is the due process? You do not meet due process by summarily depriving someone of the ability to exercise his rights without even a court adjudication and then “generously” allowing him to go through a long, confusing, and expensive process of attempting to prove the deprivation was not justified. You can read here, here, and here more reports by the Ron Paul Institute regarding the ongoing expansion of the scope of mental-health databases and of the databases’ use by the U.S. and state governments to prevent people from exercising gun rights.

Are you a veteran, or know one, who has run afoul of this VA policy? Tell us how it resolved, if so. Do you think this VA policy breaches doctor-patient confidentiality, or is the agency compelled by law to report veterans to the NICS system?

The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt!'s blog, The Shooter's Log, is to provide information—not opinions—to our customers and the shooting community. We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. The information provided here does not represent the views of Cheaper Than Dirt!

Comments (218)

  1. Brother I disagree in re to the assumption that these folks on the list are self identifying to get more bene’s, or self identifying at all. At least not knowingly, there is a market out there for fiduciaries and also a list of “magic” words/phrases that if said in convo at MH send up red flags as to the reliability of their state of mind. Most folks that get that letter get it as a surprise. Yet while being determined incapable of managing(what is taxpayer dollars) will get you assistance in doing so, the fiduciary THEY APPOINT is paid for out of your pocket, with you having ZERO input as to who or how much. And that is part of the driving force behind this, not all, but part. Of course there’s the MH pros that honestly are trying to help the vet, then there’s the ones that want to impose on the vet their authority for a multitude of reasons, then there’s the mistaken MH pros. This doesn’t include the frauds that you mentioned or the vets that asked for help with finance, not knowing everything that comes along with that and regret the decision after the fact. It runs the whole gamut I suspect. But, you hit the nail on the head, just didn’t drive it deep enough in my opinion brother. Keep up the good work, spreading this knowledge is how we bring awareness and action to the aid of our brothers and sisters.

  2. Mark Spoon, I’d be happy to answer your questions. In most cases, the determination as to whether a person can handle their own finances is self-made. Some people simply know they’re too messed-up to handle such matters. And I suspect a significant number of those who self-select do so not because they can’t actually handle their own finances, but because they know they’ll get a little more money if they claim they can’t handle their own finances. In other words, they make a fraudulent representation in an attempt to get more money out of Uncle Sugar. Apparently this is precisely what happened with that dude in Idaho, whom many are defending. He falsely claimed he couldn’t handle his own finances, but didn’t anticipate that doing so might actually come with some consequences. You know, aside from getting more money.

    As to why this matters, well, if a person is so mentally incapacitated that they can’t handle such a basic task as paying their bills every month, it stands to reason said person probably shouldn’t be playing around with deadly weapons. Again, being able to understand “I have a bill every month, and I need to send a check to that person” is about as basic a life skill as there is. Anyone who declares “My mental state is such that I can’t even be relied upon to do something as simple as paying a bill every month” is probably not a great candidate for the heavy and serious responsibilities of safe gun ownership.

    If you disagree, please tell me how mentally incapacitated you think a person needs to be before society has a legitimate right to say “You probably shouldn’t own a firearm.”?

    1. My wife is my Finance Officer. Like most women, she sometimes knows how much money I have in my wallet than I do. Because I have a daily journal of more Honey-do things than I can handle, she handles the house-hold finances. Are they going to dictate that I either fire and demote my wife from household duties or come and take all my guns? How far are they going to carry on this insanity??

  3. I have a very valid question. Who determines whether I can handle my finances, and what criteria is used? And what the hell does that have to do with owning a firearm? I am having difficulty connecting those two dots. These veterans were extensively trained in the safety, use, take-down, cleaning, and re-assembly of the firearms they were going to be exposed to. I dare say, that our heroes there and are in-country are taking breaks from the war to balance their checkbooks! This is nothing more than a part of the plan to di-arm America!

  4. Child, you trust nothing, therefor, *everything* is a threat.
    Se share disparate views, based upon disparate facts.
    Either the US government has tried to assume control over the nation it already commands of something you’ve failed to predict.
    I’m going abed, you all figure yourselves out.

  5. @ Wzrd1 and psychovet,

    Never mind, I yield. I have no interest in playing your asinine games just because I’ve bruised your egos by overwhelming proving you two wrong over and over.

    You wanted proof, I gave you proof. As vets it is embarrassing that you know full well how prestigious military.com is as the largest military and veteran’s membership organization with over 10 million members, and yet in order to continue your childishly antagonistic head-games you attempt to diminish their ability to do credible research for the military community.

    Worse still is in your effort to discredit my proof by ignoring the article was an authorized reprint from the Stars and Stripes which you know full well is an official dissemination point of DoD News and Information to military personnel.

    You two should be ashamed of yourselves when you know what you are pulling here. You need to knock it off. Real brother vets are in trouble hear and you two couldn’t care less. That is repulsive and makes you a disgrace that you EVER wore a uniform.

    And for the record Wzrd1, if you really cared enough, you’d do your own f*ck’n research and you would have discovered already that the analysis obtained by the Stars and Strips for their DoD article came from the Official Research Branch to the Federal Government’s Library of Congress. It is as valid as you are full of crap.

    I’m done… I have no desire to be anywhere near such repugnant ignorance and egos just because neither of you are man enough to admit you are idiotically wrong. I buried you’re a$$es and you know it. Grow the f*ck up, get over yourselves and instead do something for your fellow vets.

  6. I saw that same article awhile back. It’s true that VA provides veterans information to the FBI. In some cases. For instance, if a vet is so out of his mind that he or she can’t, won’t, or doesn’t know how to pay their bills, buy groceries, and so on, or they give all their monthly check to the “Society of the Flaming Meteor of Redemption Church of Interplanetary Salvation”, someone is going to have to handle that crazy f**ker’s finances for them.
    I’m not saying that denying that vet’s civil rights is right or wrong but, if that vet is armed,I don’t want to live next door.

  7. G-man, if you conduct your claimed duties with the diligence you’ve showed from one website article here, our government is in grave danger.

    “Past analysis has found more than 99 percent of the names listed as mentally defective in the FBI’s database came from the VA, and the issue has caused heated debates on Capitol Hill in recent years.”

    Not a single citation on where to verify that statement. If I have the write that I am the Almighty, are you going to worship me?!
    A claim was made that is impossible to verify and I find it both odd that was cone and the quoted figure of 99%, as the VA originated data would be protected under HIPAA and the database is classified for all records being dumped.
    That a senator is raising cain is irrelevant, as senators raise merry hell for any number of reasons that get them quoted in the media.

    So, find me the source of the 99% claim and I’ll review it as time allows, but it’ll be high on my to-review list.

  8. This below link is straight from one of the most reputable military sites from which both active and retired military depends for much of their military updates, support, and news.

    It reports on the very real dilemma faced by veterans in which more than 99% of all mentally defectives in the FBI’s NICS database come from the V.A. They are denied their right to possess firearms or purchase future firearms WITHOUT ANY adjudication whatsoever. They get reported simply for being assigned a fiduciary. That is a violation of the Constitution and is unlawful. It is also why a Senate Panel Chairman is tackling the issue. But I guess he is wasting his time since you idiots believe it isn’t really happening.

    http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/04/17/senator-veterans-still-losing-gun-rights-because-of-va-reporting.html

    I’ve never seen such ignorance even when it’s in your face – “Duh! It never happened to me so it must’a never happened.” You people are of the same ilk that refused to believe reports their own soldiers were rounding up and gassing millions in WWII. Your ignorance is sickening and a disgrace.

  9. Good for you PsychoVet! Way to stick to “your guns”. Beware though brother, there a troll or two on this site that’ll try to spin you up with a bunch of bs rhetoric and fact avoidance. It’s actually kinda like being in the military again. You know every squad has “that one guy”. If you’re new to the thread you’ll figure him out PDQ. But good on ya brother and thank you for your service.

  10. I’ve been diagnosed with PTSD, major depression disorder, suicidal ideation with a plan, and still have my guns. I talk with my psychiatrist about shooting, hunting, and fishing. She thinks it’s great that I have “hobbies “.

  11. The “mine is bigger than yours” is getting a bit old.

    The fact is, I’ve heard of no veteran losing his firearms without first being found in a court of law mentally incompetent to manage his or her daily affairs and finances.

    Yeah, a cease fire does sound like a good idea, but I doubt the two participants are done yet.

  12. @psychovet, I have a job and have been watching this exchange go on all day from work. 🙂
    Thankfully, things have been slow, otherwise I’d have had to watch it when I got home from work.

  13. It’s become extremely apparent that I’m in a discussion with an individual that has a tenuous grasp of reality at best. I’m not even slightly inclined to itemize the blatant bs in that pretense of a response. I’d say at the most you’ve managed to sharpen your skills as an “Internet debate contender”. As a 6yr vet of NSW and retiree currently engaged in a neck deep DoD contract with the top Defense Contractor(use your Google) in the country, I can only laugh at your presumptions of weakness, awkwardness, solitude, or any other uneducated guesses based on pretend sciences. Enjoy your debates and good luck with that imagination of yours. Something tells me you’re going to need it.

    1. @ Viper02A22,

      On the Internet you can make up all the credentials you like or pretend to be whomever you please. It only makes matters worse given your immature attempts to lash out with insults. What you may or may not do for a living has no bearing on your credibility here towards this particular topic; especially when you present yourself as an adolescent.

      And despite your belief that you may now fix your own display of ignorance by replacing it with arrogance through the bolstering of your own sense of self-importance, you instead need to know that behavior is quite pathetic.

      But one thing you can never change is the fact that you quite clearly wrote that since you had never met a person or heard of a single V.A. attempt to confiscate weapons – then it must not have ever happened. It wouldn’t matter whose court of public opinion you poll, that is simply a very ignorant stance from any perspective.

      Your words can never be un-written. Nor can you undo the fact you chose to write “we” and “everyone” whilst sitting alone at your keyboard. Without the majority of this forum physically standing behind you, there is no possible way you can qualify using such words, let alone be legitimately entitled to them.

      And finally, even after I provided you a source to the irrefutable proof you need to free yourself of such obliviousness, you intentional ignore it. You failed to respond because you know you are incapable of a defensible response to such in-your-face evidence. So instead you take the low road and continue to push forward with more childish insults and rhetoric.

      You sir are a joke in the worst sense. Good day.

  14. I remember my MasterChief once told me that when you’re arguing with an idiot, from a distance, people can’t tell who is who. Lol. As a retired combat vet of both campaigns, I can honestly say I haven’t met or even heard of one single vet from ANY branch that asked for, received, or been denied health care (for ANY reason) that has had their guns taken away. Except the extreme few that directly indicated they intended or could not stop thinking about hurting themselves. So please piss off with all your “nutjob” talk.

    1. @ Viper002A22,

      I suppose if you had never met a rape victim, it would mean that never happens either. Listen, instead of living in denial and having everyone “piss off” because they refuse to join your fantasy world, maybe as a Vet you should educate yourself and support your brethren that this is actually happening to.

    2. I can see why everyone is calling you out. Your incompetence is astounding. People PROVE they have been raped. So far we’ve seen ZERO proof that the VA is taking guns away from folks that aren’t a danger to themselves or someone else. Just uneducated fearmongering like the dribble that follows all your posts. It’s people like you that give liberals and far left nut jobs the ammo they use on the rest of us.

    3. @ Viper02A22,

      My point went well over your head based on how you chose to respond. Allow me to elaborate…

      My example of rape had no bearing on whether it could be proven or not, the point was to make you aware of your ignorance for believing something can’t have happened just because you personally never met someone or heard about it.

      So by showing you’ve missed such a simple point through your new comment just makes you appear as more of an imbecile than you has already shown in your first post.

      I know many intended meanings can become lost in translation given we are not eye-to-eye where we can see facial expressions, but I do not believe that to be at fault here. The true fault lies with the fact that you are just simply not the sharpest pencil in the box.

      You are probably unaware of the science behind writing analogy, but in my job we use it to reveal an individual’s actual personality based on how they choose to word things. It’s known as “statement analysis” and is quite accurate.

      Your particular style reveals much and shows you are of very weak character. When a person chooses, as you have, to include words like “everyone” and “we” in their personal opinions it shows they are desperately trying to give the appearance they are backed by many. Yet the reality is you are sitting all alone in front of your keyboard.

      You find strength in your imaginary support because you lack the confidence to stand on your own and use words like “I” or “me”, …otherwise you would have. The art of “statement analysis” is quite precise and reveals intensely embedded personality flaws in a person.

      I know you will feel compelled to lash back at me with more anger, but deep inside you will feel creepily awkward because my analysis so closely matches what you already know to be true about yourself.

      And just so you are never alone again as one who has never met or heard PROOF that the V.A. is carrying out the taking of guns from Vets, try Googling the article below. There you will find just one of many examples which brought a hundred out to a Vet’s home to stand guard after the VA sent him a weapons confiscation letter. Even the Sherriff stood guard to prevent their impending confiscation.

      Search Term: VA Tries to Confiscate Disabled Vet’s Guns, Stopped by Citizens and Sheriff Standing Guard

  15. “What of the long-respected American legal protection of doctor-patient confidentiality?”

    Well, when the government is your doctor, the government becomes privy to your confidences.

    The only time government agency A ever keeps secrets from government agency B is to benefit themselves… never to benefit you.

    Sorry to be such a downer, but let’s acknowledge the real world here.

  16. Actually I have alot better things to do than waist time talking to an idiot who insults the veterans of America. Basically nothing matters except the fact that they are taking weapons away from people that are law abiding citizens. I was one of those homeless Veterans because of the hell I went through in combat, I am one of those veterans who lost my rights because I went to the VA for help. I also know other veterans who are going thru the same problems i did And refuse to get help and still live on the streets.to get my Rights back I had to go to a court of law, I was lucky because someone helped me with legal assistance. most veterans I know can’t afford lawyers to defend themselves. So maybe I dident have the right numbers maybe it was 65 percent of homeless are veterans, either way I’m not wasting my time arguing about trivial things and looking for facts to prove anything to a looser who has nothing better to do. In my opinion 1 homeless veteran is too many, so instead of crying that your so smart and trying to prove nothing why don’t you walk down the street and give a homeless veteran something to eat or help them find some much needed help. Just because they are on the street doesn’t mean they are a nut job and they shouldn’t have rights. I won’t be following up any more comments not because your so cool or your right or wrong about anything but because your not worth my time.

  17. Listen, G-spot, I have been following this blog since it was first posted.

    “maybe you should actually try reading more of the comments by real veterans in this very blog.”

    I have, the overwhelming majority have had treatment by the VA, as I have, yet amazingly still retain our firearms. This is 99% vs your lunatic nonsense.
    Reality vs fantasy, reality wins.

    “There is no argument that we’ve already seen when Obama doesn’t get his way with Congress, he overrides them with one Executive Order after another.”

    OK, two words for you. Andrew Jackson.
    Who used executive orders to overrule Congress and even the SCOTUS.
    I guess Jackson was an enemy of the state too, right?

    “This is undoubtedly a determined effort by this administration to increasingly restrict gun ownership from as many former military personnel as possible.”

    Interesting, as the overwhelming majority of those who responded stated otherwise, myself included.

    “As a matter of fact, when the Social Security Administration realized the Obama Administration was increasing pressure for the Veteran’s Administration to step up enforcement of veteran reporting, the Social Security Administration went out of its way to avoid it by writing its own policy and recommendations to prevent the same type of reporting on civilians.”

    Yet another uncited, nonsensical venting of bovine defecation. The Social Security Administration is directed by the executive branch, as is the VA, as is the DoD, as is the DoJ, as is pretty much all of the day to day activities of the US government, but has oversight by Congress. One agency cannot dismiss directives of the executive branch, like you proclaim loudly.

    “It also falls in line with the Obama Administration producing and dissemination the Terrorist Threat Assessment by including all veterans as potential terrorist suspects.”

    Wow, you really left the rails there. One report, one that I’ve actually read, gets inflated into bats#%$ crazy. A report submitted under W.
    *Really*? Obama now uses a time machine?

    “It’s called ObamaCare.”

    F**king really. Now, insurance companies are running the nation and the grand conspiracy of the space aliens comes to full fruition.

    “So in reality it never was about protecting you from the “bats&^% crazy” vets, …”

    Lord, protect me from those on my side who are indeed bat*&^% crazy.
    Amen.

  18. @ Wzrd1 and Doug1973:

    Talk about kneejerk reactions and lack of accuracy, try doing honest research before calling someone else out. Rather than citing superfluous Google searches selectively extracted to confirm your own biased opinions, maybe you should actually try reading more of the comments by real veterans in this very blog. These same veterans posted their own horror stories about being perfectly capable and yet due to a rating of 100% disability they were automatically placed on the list as a matter of blind policy.

    So you are wrong, it is far more than just the “bats&^ crazy” vets that are having their Second Amendment Rights infringed upon. Had you two conducted earnest research into the facts, you would have also realized something is quite amiss lately under the Obama Administration and how he controls the V.A.

    There is no argument that we’ve already seen when Obama doesn’t get his way with Congress, he overrides them with one Executive Order after another. Well this is just another of the same overriding tactics as seen when Obama pressures the V.A. to step up adding more vets to the NICS database than ever before.

    This is undoubtedly a determined effort by this administration to increasingly restrict gun ownership from as many former military personnel as possible. And the reason should be obvious – given the veteran force is better trained than the civilian populace.

    Obama doesn’t care the manner in which one is mistakenly added to the NICS database through the V.A. because it still serves the purpose of disarming as many vets as possible. He knows it can take years to fight one’s way off the list – so mission accomplished.

    Still need more proof?

    The Social Security Administration has the same exact legal requirement as the Veteran’s Administration in that they must assign fiduciaries for benefit recipients deemed incapable of managing their own affairs.

    This makes sense given that both the Veteran’s Administration and the Social Security Administration are federal government entities responsible to tax payers for ensuring tax dollars are not irresponsibly squandered.

    What does not make sense is that only the Veteran’s Administration has ever been forced into a policy for reporting medical records on military individuals into the NICS database; whereas the Social Security Administration does NOT do the same with civilians even though they manage beneficiaries with identical medical situations.

    As a matter of fact, when the Social Security Administration realized the Obama Administration was increasing pressure for the Veteran’s Administration to step up enforcement of veteran reporting, the Social Security Administration went out of its way to avoid it by writing its own policy and recommendations to prevent the same type of reporting on civilians.

    There is no question we have a serious bias here that singles out only military personnel while excluding millions more civilians under the same exact conditions. So that begs the question – why would the Obama Administration be more concerned about former military having weapons? I think that has already been answered. It also falls in line with the Obama Administration producing and dissemination the Terrorist Threat Assessment by including all veterans as potential terrorist suspects.

    But wait, there is more… Given the Social Security Administration was somehow able to get around the NICS reporting requirement, Obama had to scheme up another way to finally control the eventual disarming of the civilian population. It’s called ObamaCare.

    Make no mistake; this government most assuredly will eventually tie a NICS reporting mechanism to all ObamaCare beneficiaries. This is inevitable given they will never be able to publicly justify only applying it to the Veterans Administration beneficiaries.

    Let’s see just how many civilians are mistakenly added to NICS then. There are a lot of anti-gun doctors out there that will easily air on the side of caution as well as others that just rather be safe from potential law suits.

    So in reality it never was about protecting you from the “bat%$# crazy” vets, because if it was, the same policy would be enforced within the Social Security Administration all the same. And that is really what this article was all about – the hypocrisy and bias towards vets.

    1. G-Man, I fear the necessity to do honest research and to avoid kneejerk reactions and inaccuracy may fall right back into your own lap. You’ve posted so many half-truths and mistruths I’m not even sure where to begin.

      Let’s start with Obama. You’ve stated or implied that this entire issue came about as a result of Obama issuing Executive Orders. A few factual points on this that you seem to have missed: First, Obama has issued exactly two Executive Orders related to the Veteran’s Administration. The first on August 31, 2012 and the second on August 26, 2014. Neither of those EO’s says even a single thing about the subject at hand (that being, the VA handing records over to the FBI.) Both EO’s were squarely aimed at helping veterans by improving services. No, the entire issue of the VA being required to turn over certain mental health records to the FBI began in…1997. That’s right, this issue has been around since 1997. And indeed there was some controversy around it in 1999 and 2000. But that directive has been in place, and has been followed, for the last 15 years. It only recently came to light again in a politically-fueled frenzy, with people now completely inventing the scenario (as you did) where this is “Obama’s policy”. No, it’s actually Senator Richard Burr’s policy (R – NC), as he’s the one who introduced this requirement into the 111th Congress in 1997. I.e., the policy hasn’t changed under Obama. To the extent more veterans (and we’ll get to the numbers in a minute) are now being caught-up in this, it’s because in recent years far more veterans are filing PTSD claims. And as one would expect, a relatively small number of those claims are serious enough to warrant a “mentally incompetent” rating.

      Now G-Man, none of this is my opinion. It is all objective, verifiable fact. The exact same type of “fact” you accuse me of ignoring. I would submit it is YOU ignoring the facts. It’s somewhat ironic that you accuse me of “not conducting earnest research” and not being “honest”, when you sit there and attempt to fraudulently claim this is all a by-product of Obama trying to disarm veterans. Your take on the issue seems to me to be entirely politically motivated. You have developed this narrative that “Obama wants to disarm veterans”, and frankly you don’t care about any facts that would call your entire assertion into question. But then, that’s what happens when people have a political axe to grind. Objective facts and truth fly right out the window. And both critical thought and honest inquiry become collateral casualties. Or to put it all another way G-Man, you’re employing a tactic commonly known as “propaganda”.

      So let’s talk about the numbers I referenced above. Since Sept. 11, 2001, more than 2,000,000 military personnel have been deployed. Approximately 40% of these people, or 800,000, leave the military with a PTSD rating. (As an aside, keep in mind that of those 800,000, the vast majority never saw actual combat yet received a PTSD rating anyway. Although that’s a subject for an entirely different thread.) Now, we know that approximately 100,000 of these PTSD-diagnosed veterans have received adjudications of being “mentally incompetent”. THAT is the standard for the application of records to the FBI. In other words, about 12.5% of those diagnosed with PTSD have been affected by all this. Or to put it another way, about 5% of ALL deployed veterans have been affected. And frankly G-Man, those are about the numbers I would expect to see after a decade of war footing. I have no doubt that after a decade of constant deployments and stress, approximately 5% of all those deployed suffer from enough stress to be adjudicated mentally incompetent. And keep in mind, we’re only talking about people here who have been deployed. Since about 40% of the military is never deployed, the TOTAL number of veterans being affected by this issue is roughly 3%.

      So G-Man, if Obama wanted to disarm all veterans as you claim, then by disarming only 3% of them he’s doing a hell of a poor job at it. And in all of this don’t lose sight of the fact that the 3% of all veterans we’re discussing here HAVE, in fact, been declared “mentally incompetent” to the point of requiring a fiduciary. And being declared mentally incompetent isn’t something that just happens on a whim. There’s a fairly extensive process for it, and even that process can be appealed.

      Now as for the Social Security Administration, you’re comparing apples to oranges. The SSA doesn’t report to NCIS for two reasons: First, SSA uses outside physicians who themselves have a duty to report to NCIS if they believe an individual is mentally incompetent. Second, for legal reasons that have nothing to do with Obama, SSA appoints affected individuals with “representative payees” rather than “fiduciaries”. This changes the reporting requirement to NCIS, and this policy has been in place for almost two decades. Which also makes me wonder why you’re so keen to implicate Obama in a policy decision he didn’t create.

      Sorry G-Man, but as I told Steve, you’re entitled to your own opinions…but not your own facts. Your description of all this reeks of paranoia and a definite political bias and agenda. It for darn sure isn’t based on critical thought, logic or reason. You’ve well-confirmed this by ignoring all the inconvenient facts of the matter, instead preferring to set-up a politically convenient boogie man (in this case Obama) to spread dangerously false information to anyone who will listen. I urge you to read the writings of several CONSERVATIVE bloggers (like Bob Owens) and media types (like the National Review) who have said everything I’ve said above. Basically, that this entire “scandal” is nothing more than certain members of the gun-owning community doing what they do best: jerking their knees absent any facts, logic or reason. Congrats?

    2. @ Doug1973:

      My apologies, as I usually dutifully try to read through other’s responses in their entirety to determine if they contain any discernibly redeemable points. However, unfortunately in your case I could only get through the first few sentences when I quickly realized how severely derailed your perception is of what you think I wrote.

      Your senseless tangent of confirmation bias that began to follow stopped me in my tracks, and so I must admit I did not read on. In all honesty I have no other excuse other than I simply had more worthwhile things to do.

      However no matter how misguided you are, I did take notice of your effort in the massive number of words you wrote. After having seen that, I felt a tad guilty for my lack of willingness to force myself into reading it all, and thus I felt I owed you at least some explanation as to why you failed to engage me with legitimate substance worthy of a response.

      Hopefully this will not reflect upon your willingness to engage me in future topics that come along, and of which, may be more suited to your level of comprehensibility.

      Good day.

    3. No worries, G-Man. I had a sneaking suspicion that once I again introduced a bunch of pesky facts into the debate, you would quickly lose interest in attempting to sustain your frivolous arguments.

      Instead, you had “more worthwhile things to do”. Like write four paragraphs declaring how wrong I am, while conveniently and suspiciously being unable to, you know, actually detail how anything I wrote was incorrect. Interesting, that.

      It almost seems that after you read my post (which, your denials aside, I suspect you likely did read in its entirety), you might have thought to yourself, “Ugh, I’m afraid this guy might actually have his facts correct, completely contradicting everything I wrote. Since I’ll look even more foolish trying to refute the irrefutable, I know what I’ll do…I’ll write four paragraphs just telling him he’s wrong, and see if anyone notices my response is all posturing and bluster, completely devoid of anything resembling a substantive rebuttal to objective facts. I bet nobody will notice!”

      Don’t worry, G-Man. No one noticed. 😉

      And as for future correspondence, don’t you worry your pretty little head. If in that future dialogue you’re as easy to summarily dispatch as you were here, rest assured…it will be my absolute delight to respond.

    4. Cool picture, Shade.

      Too bad it doesn’t refute a single word I wrote. ‘Cause an actual response would require “effort”, and if there’s one thing I’ve learned over the years, it’s that many gun owners are intellectually lazy. When they know they can’t win the war of rhetoric, they resort to something they can better understand: pictures.

      Lol!

  19. @Doug73, thanks for actual numbers.
    I find 12% a fairly alarming number, it shows that we can do a hell of a lot better by our peers.
    It’s a shame so few actually check for the accuracy of these blogs, instead preferring to knee jerk and fly off of the handle, like the two posting after your factual statements did.

  20. I really have to agree with Doug1973, many a firearm owner here tends to have a supersonic knee jerk, without actually validating what was written about.
    It’s embarrassing!
    First off, any veteran who goes into the database is one who is so badly off mentally that they cannot even manage basic financial affairs or manage the daily affairs of life. In short, they’re not troubled, they’re not eccentric, they’re bats%^$ crazy. Far gone. In desparate need of help that is in progress.
    Such people infrequently make a full recovery, they’re troubled for life with their disease.
    Now, do you really want the truly insane to possess a firearm?
    I sure as hell don’t, I wouldn’t trust them with a specially blunted spoon in my presence. They require personal supervision to even survive.
    These aren’t people like myself, who did receive treatment for PTSD.
    Guess what? I’m not in the database, hell, I still have a security clearance.

  21. I dunno. I’m apparently not as offended by this as most are. If anyone actually read the details, the ONLY people whose mental health records are being turned over to the fbi database are those individuals deemed unable to even care for themselves (due to mental illness). Do most of you really want such people owning guns?!? Do you think that’s ultimately GOOD for us as gun owners? This type of “no compromises, for ANY reason” attitude is going to be our own downfall as gun owners. Some nut job who never should have owned a gun in the first place will go on a historic shooting spree and then NONE of us will be able to own certain guns.

    1. I’m offended at you calling any military veteran a nut job, you have no respect for the people who give their lives so you can actually have the freedoms you have. Maybe you should research more before you start calling people nut jobs. Anyone who asks for help gets put on that list, so if they are a nut job or not they get their gun rights taken away for defending yourfreedom. Do you think that after someone has to kill people or watch their comrades get blown to pieces in the line of duty that they should automatically be called a nut job or should they be able to get help without fear of their freedom being taken away. Because of this veterans will not go to the VA for assistance or help thus adding to the 65percent of veterans who are homeless. The few instances that have happened, they never went for help in the first place, so this again is only taking the freedoms from the people who are law abiding citizens, not your so called nut jobs, who are actually Veterans who really need help because they were just traumatized from combat defending this country.

    2. Nice straw man arguments, Steve.

      First, I did not say that “any” and all veterans are nut jobs. That notion is just you mistakenly (or perhaps purposefully?) twisting my words into something I didn’t say. In fact, I’m a veteran myself. Please respond to what I actually wrote, not what you’d like to believe I wrote.

      Second, you are absolutely, categorically wrong that “anyone who asks for help” from the VA gets put on the list in question. That assertion has already been thoroughly debunked. So you’re either grossly uninformed, or you’re one of those people for whom “facts” are whatever you want them to be. AGAIN, to make this list you have to have been deemed unable to care for yourself.

      Third, I strongly question your claim that 65% of veterans are homeless. In fact I just looked it up and according to the National Coalition for Homeless Veterans, 12% of veterans are homeless. While that number is tragic, tell me Steve…is 12% the same thing as 65%? You’re using what’s known as “fuzzy math”.

      Steve, you’re entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. Please stop demagoguing the issue with blatantly false claims. It doesn’t do the issue any good, and it certainly doesn’t do your own credibility any good.

  22. I am so sick of this DAMN government I love this country but the government has screwed it up so bad! They let that lieing bastard BARRY SOETORO in the White House and thre it so much proof that he did come from KENYA he even has a vedio of himself telling a group of towelhead that he is really from kenya the thing is there is no one with a a set of balls that will go after him!

  23. Yeah great. That’s just what we need. We have enough problems and hunting is a great way to help us heal. There are not many Veterans that go on shooting sprees, just normal stupid Americans. Those are the ones that they should take guns away from. The morons that kill a bunch of people shouldn’t be allowed guns, but you take them away from Veterans? That doesn’t make any sense. It is not the Veterans that are the problem, but we are going to get blamed when we haven’t done anything wrong. Hitler made sure that the Jews had to give up their guns….look what happened to them. The Second Amendment doesn’t give anyone the right to deprive a law-abiding citizen of gun ownership. This is ridiculous…..

  24. I respect what you said and I would love for the Government to do so as well. Thank you for your support, I do not mean it as a cliche’ or something said when people like you support us. Cpl Ruk USMC 0811 Heavy Artillery.

  25. to all the vets out there i salute you all-this country cannot do enough for you and the majority of freedom lovers feel same as me.Being shot at or getting an rpg thrown your way is no laughing matter-something the politicians will never get.Your right to carry is a threat to those who wish to steal our freedoms.They have already stolen our money and our kids future. IDF73

  26. I normally do not leave comments but this one hit home. I am a vietnam combat vet. I also have two purple hearts an I am 100% disabled an I also was diagnosed with Ptsd many years ago. It has never been a issue of having access to weapons, I am not a danger to the public, never had any problems with law enforcement! It makes absolutely no sense for the Va,to turn over to the FBI records of Ptsd veterans, an its a pretty sad day when my government looks at me as a threat. I Think if you go by any VA hospital you will find for the most part veterans are peaceful an especially if they are Ptsd vets are respectful of all veterans an VA staff. Just because of a few we are all looked at with suspect. Trust me when this country is in need PTsd vets will be the ones that will stand up an defend this country with every bit of life they have left to give. I hope that you will look at these individuals with respect, maybe even thank them for their sevice to this great nation.

  27. I have not been put on the PTSD band wagon, but the U.S. Department of Justus has taken away my 2nd and 14th amendment rights and I have not been sited as nuts, nor am I.
    I think that I will just get out of the Obama Brown Shirt country and be free in a communist country instead of a ISIS loving government.

  28. I believe that I read that over 250,000 veterans have had their names put on the NCiC for being assigned a person to help them with the VA benefits.
    That is Not the same as their being adjudicated as mentally incompetent in a Court of Law, yet seemingly has the same results…

  29. Zeke, I’m with you…I have an appointment wednesday .. I’m going to do the same thing..There’s a lot of “blogerry” around,, I hope that it’s just that..

  30. This does not feel right, having PTSD is one thing, But a lot of guys claim they have PTSD and don’t. They fake it so they can add percentages to
    their compensation and increase there check. Its easy to do, all you have to do is act a little crazy, a little over sensitive and a little mad, and the VA could ruin your life with a FBI list. I almost can’t believe its true. I am going to check this out during my up coming visit in a few days.

    1. I hate to say it Zeke, but you are correct about one thing: a LOT of veterans getting disability checks for PTSD don’t have PTSD. I personally know three people in this exact situation. When I’ve asked them why they falsely claimed PTSD, they each claimed “everyone else is, why not me?” Everyone loves it when THEY rip-off taxpayers for their own personal financial benefit, and hates it when someone ELSE does the same thing. I hate to say it, but a fair number of our vets are no better than welfare leeches. And before anyone gets mad about me saying that, remember…vets who file phony disability claims take money away from those who actually need it. The government doesn’t have unlimited funds. Every dollar spent on phony disability is a dollar that cannot go to someone who actually earned and needs it. Genuinely disabled vets should be most mad about this, yet I sometimes see them defending the fraud. Go figure.

  31. I am also a combat vet–Viet Nam ’69 to ’70..I have PTSD and my doctor at the V.A. knows me well– I have a C.C. permit..The officers know around town that if they were in trouble and unable to call in that they could depend on me to back them up!! I have never considered harming anyone with a firearm.. I did more than enough of that in “Nam!! This whole thing is about disarming us to forward their agenda..

    1. Did you actually read anything about what you’re commenting on? Simply having a PTSD diagnosis will NOT bare you from owning weapons. Rather, if your PTSD is so bad that you cannot care for yourself, THEN your name will be in the FBI database as a prohibited person. As it should be.

      I swear, my fellow gun owners are never shy about letting their knees jerk quickly and loudly.

  32. common words from a common person (vet)
    If as a result of our loyal military service in the service of our counrty, (many of whom are dead as a result of their service) should me not consider the military and our government the cause of many veterans mental problems. but please don’t say to yourself that the Veterans Admin. is taking care of us.
    retired veterans who are mentally ill. When does this mental illness start? Before or after your service. Should not the military and vetrans admin. be checking active duty military personnel, Remember the work place violance which took place in Texas?
    What i’m trying to put in words is that our young service put their lives on the line each and every minute of the day, carry weapons and use them if need be, but upon return to the world (term use by gone Vietnem vets) they are told they are mentally ill and in many cases are indeed, cannot own or purchase a weapon of their choosing because of their mental condition and in many cases there indeed serious problems. But the Vets Adimn and the Juistice ? Dept. are assuming all VETS are mentally ill????. Just maybe it’s time for some type of class action suit. Their should be probably afew million VETS who take exception to being called mentall ill. Just my thoughts and noting more or as my wife would say, that’s what you get for thinking. PS I didn’t spell check

  33. I received one of the letters telling me about my violation to own a gun. They said it could cost me a fine ,jailed, or prison time if I shot some one.
    That’s for every body I thought. I’m a combat veteran and I’m approaching and We defended the USA from several wars. They trusted us then to handle rifles, machine guns, grenades, ECT. Now our own government is telling us what we can do, To say are preach the word of GOD. I think everyone in the government have overstep their selves. Why defended this nation if they don’t respect our rights
    But they dam well want our money and our votes. It’s time for the veterans stand up and speak out. I really don’t know where our America when to. But it’s gone to hell in a hand basket.

  34. Having someone living next door to me with PTSD would not bother me in the least, especially if that person were a combat vet.

    It would bother me if I had a liberal that was hell bent on banning vets from owning firearms. When you look at these mass shootings you do not see veterans involved. You do see mentally ill people, almost always registered democrats, doing the shooting. Perhaps the real mental disorder that we should worry about is liberalism. Let’s ban liberals from gun ownership.

  35. I am a combat veteran and I have been diagnosed with PTSD. Yes I get irritated at idiots like many, but having PTSD is not going to make me start gunning down innocents. You may get a thorough tongue lashing, but hell I was like that before I went into the service.

    If you ain’t been there and done that STFU!

  36. Where is the crime in the fact of being disabled. Where does it say in the bill of rights to give the right to a agency as such the Va to conspire with the FBI to deprive the right where its the duty of both to prevent Civil Rights Acts of 1871 , U.S. Title 42 usc section 1983, 85, 86.
    Eugene TRAYNOR, Petitioner, v. Thomas K. TURNAGE, Administrator, Veterans’ Administration and the Veterans’ Administration. James P. McKELVEY, Petitioner, v. Thomas K. TURNAGE,
    Administrator of Veterans’ Affairs, et al http://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/485/535 ,
    handicap within the meaning of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, and that
    the VA therefore violated § 504 of that Act, which requires that federal
    programs not discriminate against handicapped persons solely because of
    their handicap

  37. @ mwquimby:

    I’ll never understand the some of you who talk out your rear. In one paragraph you’ve completely disqualified yourself as having any form of credibility to speak on this topic.

    Chris Kyle’s murderer has never been formerly diagnosed with any form of PTSD. That claim was an assumption loosely made by Routh’s mother who mistakenly connected the onset of her son’s preexisting schizophrenia with his military service, in hopes of soliciting free V.A. help.

    Thereafter the liberal media latched on to her (the mother’s) version of events and the rest of the idiots consumed it as the Lord’s spoken word.

    In reality, while the V.A did treat and release Routh for an unrelated mental disorder, it was never diagnosed as PTSD. Routh exhibited symptoms more commonly associated with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, of which, signs of onset appeared well before his entrance into the military.

    In addition, Routh never served under hazardous conditions that are usually associated to PTSD, since his role was an armorer (weapons repair tech) which kept him out of combat.

    More to the point, Routh was ultimately convicted of murder without any element of diminished capacity attached, thus ruling out PTSD or even his mild schizophrenia.

    As for your comment that, “No one who has been diagnosed with PTSD should have access to a firearm. PTSD is a violent disorder…” This clearly establishes you have no clue about this disorder. PTSD exudes various symptoms for various individuals, many of which pose no threat to anyone.

    Many people suffer from PTSD which range from abused little children, women that have experienced rape, and law enforcement officers involved in shootings and remain on duty.

    You are a simple idiot.

    1. I’m a retired police officer, the cop I worked with daily called me psycho, a
      term of respect. Ass a Marine and tour and a half Nam vet, I have been diagnosed with PTSD. I still carried a gun to work, I own guns My VA doc is a well known doc. I asked if they reported guns of PTSD vet, I was told no. I do know that if police in my state come to your house on a domestic
      dispute and see guns or are told you have guns they can seize them for
      a cooling down period. But must return them.

  38. mwquimby; “No one who has been diagnosed with PTSD should have access to a firearm. PTSD is a violent disorder that law enforcers have to deal with every day. The jerk who killed Chris Kyle was suffering from PTSD.”

    Your ignorance is showing, Sir.

    My father was a WW2 Combat Infantryman (Heavy Machine gunner), a CIB and Purple Heart recipient, who was wounded while serving with the 3rd Infantry Division, while moving forward in France, following the 3rd ID’s own, less remembered, ‘D-Day’ (2 weeks after Normandy), on his second campaign after having invaded Italy, first.
    He had PTSD (‘Shell Shock/Combat Fatigue’) and Survivorship Syndrome. A VA Shrink told him, when he checked himself out of the Cleveland VA, that they would bring him back in a straight jacket. They never did.
    With only an 8th Grade Education he started and ran his own small business, with my mom and her 10th Grade education taking care of the books and paperwork, that employed them and three others.
    He never drank alcohol, or took any dangerous mind altering drug (such as those often prescribed by the VA). He was well liked and admired. A man who helped people, a good friend.
    He had nightmares for decades, but never spoke of them until he found a way to be rid of them (a Native American ‘Dream Catcher’).
    Dad taught me to hunt at the age of 11 years. He always had a few firearms around the house, but he was never a danger to anyone, himself included.
    Virtually All of my friends are Vietnam veterans. All of them have some aspect of PTSD, to some extent or another (including myself). All of them are being treated by the VA for their issues and are all medicated, to one extent or another, yet they all have Conceal Carry Permits and carry daily. I know, as I am the NRA Pistol Trainer who taught them their firearms courses. None of them are dangerous to anyone, unless they were to be assaulted by someone seeking to do them, or their loved ones harm. Then I pity their assailants.
    I belong to a national Vietnam veterans organization, the vast majority of whom are being treated by the VA for numerous service connected maladies, including PTSD. Virtually all of them are licensed gun permit holders. Strange that in the 15 years that I have been in this organization, I haven’t heard of a single one of them being arrested for shooting up a Mall, or a Schoolhouse, as it’s mostly psychotropic drug induced Liberals (without military service) who do things like that.
    The vast majority of our nation’s veterans are a source of pride and support, for all who know or need them, not something to be afraid of.
    I take care of my own PTSD issues via Transcendental Meditation, instead of utilizing, said, psychotropic drugs and would advise others to do likewise, (with a physician’s assistance in weaning them off of those drugs) as all of these drugs have dangerous side affects, that will destroy your liver and kidneys, with long term usage, as well as your lives and mental capacity.
    It’s also a fact that almost ALL of our nation’s, recent, mass shooters were either on, or had recently went off of, such drugs.

    You, Sir, need to start getting your news from something other than the Propaganda Ministry, er… ah, I mean, the ‘Mainstream Media’.
    Are you aware that ALL of our nations major media outlets are Owned by Six (6) major corporations ? All of them including Fox News! What you are getting is programing, from the Government’s Propaganda Ministry, NOT the ‘News’. When coupled with what has been foisted off on us as ‘education’ by the ‘Public Indoctrination System’ (formerly the Public Education System) we have a dangerously unaware and misled populace.

  39. mwquimby, all due respect but you are clueless about PTSD, it is apparent by your comment that you had no actual combat tours or experience any violent drama in your lifetime.
    The fact that one has been diagnosed with PTSD does not make him a dangerous mad dog killer and as a law enforcement officer and retired soldier with 24 plus years (with 5 combat tours) I have dealt with returning soldiers suffering with PTSD, taking the time to understand and talking to the veteran have always been able to talk them in to going to the VA for help.
    Having worked the street’s for over 22 years I have been engaged in violent attacks by career criminals, domestic violence and those intoxicated or under the influence of drugs or alcohol and none of those attackers were military/combat veterans.
    Not to say this does not happen but it is not fair to say that ALL with PTSD are dangerous and mad dog killer and that sh**head of a coward that murdered Chris just used PTSD to safe his worthless life from the death penalty in this great State of Texas.
    Please educate yourself about PTSD before you make an un-informed comment, it’s people like you that help those who would love to take our rights under the 2nd Amendment away. God Bless this Great Country.

  40. “VA acts in accordance with federal law and works with the Department of Justice to properly maintain the NICS database.” Federal law includes HIPPA which specifically prohibits sharing such information without permission from the patient.

    But then, when has existing law mattered to this lawless administration?

    1. Amen Brother! Ever since the retardlib party took over the democrats & then allowed a Kenya Native Muslim anti-American Foreign Enemy Usurper to take illegally the office in our Whitehouse we have 2 choices, fight them in coup & take it all away, with death to entire regime, or, BOHICA!

  41. As a veteran who actually has a small percentage of my disability list as situational depression due to injuries from military service, I have actually had no difficulty buying hunting guns for my sons and a nice glock for myself. I suspect…or at least hope, that the criteria for being banned is considerate of each situation. But I fear that this is just one more way to enforce gun control…and come on, how many veterans DON’T own guns, as well as suffer from some depression? It is a great target audience to hit for gun-banning zealots

  42. This is one policy that I believe holds merit. Only those adjudged to be mentally incompetent loose control of their benefits and are assigned to a third party. Mental incompetence is a disqualification for weapon ownership, and for good reason. Safe handling is more important than trigger control or perfect aim.

  43. I’m a War Veteran and served from 1981-84 in the Marines . I started noticing the mental health questions at my local VA about 3-4 years ago .they would ask the (3) mental health questions during my general health doctors visit these were always asked by the triage nurse

    Even during a one month hospital stay I was asked if I was hopeful of my future

  44. I am a Vietnam Vet and as a young man 19 I did see a VA Phyco who smoked one cigarette after another .I walked out of that office and told him ,he is the one who needs help.Now over 40 years later I started going to the VA for Heart and Liver disease ,only to be told I can’t come back cause I make to much money!I live on a very small pension and disability. Thank you America and f@#k the VA

    1. Don’t blame the VA for the actions of Congress.
      Routinely, we hear “Veterans are number one”, only to not notice which finger was being lifted by the speaker.

  45. No one who has been diagnosed with PTSD should have access to a firearm. PTSD is a violent disorder that law enforcers have to deal with every day. The jerk who killed Chris Kyle was suffering from PTSD.

    1. Actually the guy that killed Chris Kyle had a history of mental illness and the reports proved that he was another guy pushed through the recruiting process and everything was overlooked. The guy had actually never seen combat and was a sort of schizophrenic.

  46. Reed, I was speaking of the mentally ill that are indeed a danger to themselves and others, not those who are not a danger at all. You are indeed correct, mental illness has a wide spectrum, with a small minority who are a danger. Some PTSD sufferers are indeed dangerous, they remain hypervigilant until their problems are dealth with properly. Those most certainly should not have a firearm, lest they think that they’re downrange and start shooting. Once the illness is managed, their right can be restored.
    As for diabetics, there has yet to be a diabetic shooting someone during a hypoglycemic episode or insulin shock, you missed the mark by a wide margin.
    You miss the mark yet again with the baseball bat, knife or ladder strawman, as none of those can send a projectile a quarter mile or more.
    You fail again with the other strawman argument “they go where there are no guns”, Gabby Giffords is a prime example, as frequently political figures do have protective details from at least the local PD, so Loughner had every reason to expect armed resistance and indeed, one person present had his CCW firearm on his person, but was unable to engage due to the crowd and rapidity of events.
    As I recall, reportable incidents have classifications, thereby distinguishing a bad reaction to a psychotropic drug from a true psychotic break.

    1. Ah, the ancient denunciation, how Stalinistic of you!
      Go back to the wee tykes table, you don’t belong with the grown-ups.

    2. Anyone who actually cares about the real statistics regarding murders and the type of weapons that were used, would know that knifes,crow bars,baseball bats and many other weapons other then fire arms have killed more people by a margin of 10-1 . The percentage of murders using firearms is so incredibly small compared to non- fire arms I mentioned , there should be no doubt or a discussion worth having to compare gun violence to these other assault weapons.

    3. I think you miss the mark, Wzrd 1. Gabby Gifford was actually a rare instance when a disturbed shooter wasn’t concerned that there might be some defensive resistance. Almost all mass shootings are in NO GUN ZONES (schools, theaters, malls, and even gun restricted areas of military bases), and many of the shooters are or had been taking anti-depressants. The media BS that flows so freely would have us all believe that these shooters would be completely innocent if not for having had access to an evil gun. They would also like us to believe that the US is the most violent country in the “free” world, but that is not any where close to the truth. And isn’t it ironic that the most gun free areas, like D.C., L.A, Chicago, etc., are among the most violent in the country.

    4. Wzrd1, you are casting a very wide net. Not all of us who have PTSD will open fire just because we have a moment of return. That’s like saying everybody with HIV is gay. Yet you talk of others missing the mark? I will be the first to admit, there are some of us that don’t need to be around guns (not because they are incapable, but because it is an activator) I would say the average combat vet with PTSD is more than capable of handling weapons without an issue. The people that the VA is talking about are those that need a caretaker to handle everything for them because they are mentally incapable of making decisions. This is also something I have spoken with many senior level folks at VA, this is not something that is done arbitrarily. It is a long and drawn out process and as long as you can formulate words into a thought out sentence, you’re probably fine.

    5. I’m honestly uncertain if I was unclear or if your reading wasn’t thorough.
      I said a small number of those with PTSD had the problem of a return could act it out fully. I was not suggesting a majority or a large number out of one hundred would.
      But, for that small number, would *you* take that chance that they’d act fully during an away moment? Would you have your family in the apartment next door, knowing that someone in great need of help is armed and currently not under the influence of reality and is armed?

  47. All elected officials should have to have served in a conflict. Infantry mos only front lines only. Reserve duty void one out. People can talk patriotic all day long. Let the politicians sons and daughters raise their right hands. Have some skin in the game. Don’t speak on issues you know nothing about. Sgt.USMC/0311

    1. SGT Roderick: from one vet to another: Thank you for your service and covering our 6’s
      I agree with you, but on a larger scale: ALL elected officials, foreign and domestic should have their offspring enter into the ACTIVE services. Lets see how many wars there are then.
      (even though I believe war as a form of POPULATION CONTROL)

    2. 11B only? Honestly? So, by your criteria, Ike should never have been president. The same for Reagan.

      I’m a retired fighter pilot and will stack my patriotism, military knowledge, and experiences of having been “it the $–t” against ten of you straight legs.

    3. First, Sergeant Roderick, thank you for your service. Second, I’ve got to disagree with you on elected officials needing a military requirement. Instead, I think the requirement needs to be people who are not professional politicians, instead, those people should be pooled from hard working people, not those that are rich. There needs to be limits, and the salaries need to be deflated, and terminated at the end of their terms.

  48. The administration has engaged in a policy of treating military veterans as a greater national security threat than ISIS , al Qaeda or a host of other real enemies foreign and domestic. Training materials for our troops identify military veterans, the deeply religious and others as the threats to be watched.

    When Treyvon Martin was killed DOJ attorneys worked with his school police to have his school police records protected from discovery by the defense attorneys on the basis that they were confidential health records protected by federal law.

    1. “Training materials for our troops identify military veterans, the deeply religious and others as the threats to be watched.”

      Liar. I intimately know what our military training material contains, I did serve 27+ years.

      “When Treyvon Martin was killed DOJ attorneys worked with his school police to have his school police records protected from discovery by the defense attorneys…”

      Another long debunked lie.

      Take your “information” to the sewage treatment plant, where you got it from in the first place.

    2. For the record I was pulled over by a police officer for my tags being expired for one day and when I told him I was checking to see if my VA check had co.e in yet so I could get them he asked me to step out of the car so he could check the car for dead bodies and bombs. I assure you he was not joking. veterans are routinely harassed because they are considered by government agencies to be a credible threat. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

    3. Ah, the old local police and local government are the same as the federal government gambit.
      I usually only hear that from foreigners, not US citizens.

      Here is a small hint, federal officers and agents don’t pull you over when driving for an expired vehicle registration, save on federal property.
      Local yokels can and do pull you over.
      The funny thing is, usually they’ll try to keep things off key, when looking for illicit drugs, although heaven knows what delusion the dead bodies and bombs came from, local police are far from immune from delusional thinking.
      Hell, I had a store manager utter something about “baby killer” to me just a few years ago, that doesn’t mean she worked as a federal agent of any sort.
      I’ll note that that store manager was told to seek other employment when I called to complain at corporate, who had already received calls from a half dozen angry customers over that incident.

  49. Any who would denigrate our military veterans, who have sacrificed for their country, who haven’t served themselves, deserve to be ignored, not allowed a venue to rant against our warriors.

    Such tripe would be better received on some far Left site, not in a firearms forum.

    My father was a veteran, I am a veteran and my son was a veteran. Hopefully my grandsons will not Have to be.

    1. Rocky, do you not understand the irony in your comment? You served to protect ALL rights for ALL citizens…not just those citizens who happen to personally agree with you. If you don’t understand this, then you fundamentally don’t understand the true meaning of freedom.

      Moreover, let’s not be politically correct and pretend that each and every veteran is always the epitome of virtue and morality. Veterans are a microcosm of society. You have veterans who are indeed heros, and you have veterans who are dirtbags. And it’s always been that way. Merely serving in the military (as I did myself for 9 years) does not automatically make people beyond reproach. Suggesting it does is nothing more than politically correct garbage.

  50. Every organization I know of ( othrr than govrrnments military/political Agency such as s VA) only encourages Veterans to apply for mental or health related to military duty aid; Many supply financial and legal aid so they can apply.
    Never said POW/MIA applied for anything as it was mainly the wives and family membrrs who began that fine organization.
    Where thr hell do you guys thinlk the money and people that began these groups such as fought and brought to light what VA and active military were doing as abuse and denial of Agent orange, rapes within military , PTSD:they sure as
    hell did not recieve a fn thing from their old comrades or the Great Genetation that ran the VFW
    Any vet that knows he is in need of mental or physical aid from service connected causes and does not apply for fear of losing his gun; Then thst guy has a mental problem.
    Hell this article ids nut a fear tactic as yhe possability of losing hun rihhts through medical care is almost moot.
    Some lifer questioned my mention of drugs in military?
    Navy Seal Matt Bosonnrtte” No Easy Day” READ IT; AND WHILE YOU ARE AT IT READ COLONEL GEORGE DILL CHIEF DIETITIAN OF DRUGS IN MILITARY COMMAND 2010 REPORT.
    Air Force :Go Pills” and go to sleep pills for their pilots.10,00 soldiers overseas authorizef dleeping pills.
    Narcotic pain killers for up to 180 day supply common for long tours.
    Oxy, vicodin and morphine, hell they can get volor coded lolipops strongrr than morphine
    Brits spec ops carry bags of candy on ops.
    Stafg Sargent Bates was on anabolic stetoids, as are vountless others but military looksbother ways until someone like Staff Sargent Bates goes off reservation to kill 16 civilians.
    VA records show testostrrone enhancers and
    steroids such as stanozolol and oxymetholone cause much time in therapy to flush systems.
    A lot of vets problems are caused by the needs of the system, a system that cares not of casualtysas long as pbjectives are achieved.
    As to any vey who claims he gave me freedpm what dope you smoking, no nation has attackef US since 1940’s and while many playef soldiers the freedoms within auD became no more than as if everuone has signed to be in military anf now the military and system is eating their own.
    Yes we civilians fought military abuse but they in military just follow orders, and the wards fill up during your permanent war footing that denys civil liberties in a need to be warrior
    heroes.

    1. More like barely literate commentary.
      Denies what he said before about POW/MIA’s seeking benefits, despite that post being still easily found.
      Rants about narcotics being taken downrange, I guess he thinks that medics will just go to the corner drug store. Ignores that medics carry the drugs and those are of limited sorts, with opoids being a minority of what drugs are carried.
      Rants about steroids, trying to fool everyone into thinking that the DoD is supplying them, when it’s civilian doctors who do.
      Then, exposes his ignorance of things military when griping about amphetamines given to *pilots* on long and frequent missions, then given seditive before performance drops enough to endanger the pilot and aircraft.
      The guy is more full of sh*t than a Christmas goose.

  51. My father was a WW2 Combat Infantryman with the 3rd Infantry Division. He was wounded and a sole survivor. A CIB and Purple Heart recipient. While at the Cleveland VA, following his released, he thought for his physical injuries, he found himself talking to a doctor for about 3 days. At the point where he discovered that the ‘doctor’ was a shrink, he checked himself out, with the doctor following after him warning that “he would be brought back in a straight jacket”…
    Well, Dad never did go back, at least for mental issues. (they originally gave him 20% disability for just that interview, he never tried for more)He started his own small business employing 3 other men and my mother (with an 8th grade education) raised his family, worked 10 hours a day, 6 days a week, to support us and was a great all around father.
    While he did smoke cigarettes, he never partook of alcohol or mind altering drugs.
    Although he had nightmares, for decades, he never even mentioned them, until after he found a method of getting rid of them; A Native American ‘Dream Catcher’, which he hung above his bed made the nightmare go away.
    He taught me to hunt, beginning when I was 11 years old and always had a few firearms around, but he never was a threat to anyone, nor even himself.
    He had a really rough life, before getting drafted, with his mother being in and out of the State Hospital for Depression issues (she died while he was still young) and an alcoholic father. He told me he never owned a toothbrush growing up and since the well got poisoned, had to carry water from a neighbor’s and go to his older, married, sister’s house to take a bath. They had an outhouse and lived in the old family homestead dating back to the 1870s.
    He was a tough old bird, but a caring father who loved his family. He never knowingly hurt anyone, but was looked up to by everyone in our rural neighborhood, before we moved away and into the city.
    So much for PTSD making someone a threat to themselves or others.
    I too have evidence, in my Service records, that could get me diagnosed with PTSD, but have never bothered to address it, due to my fears of the government forcing me to take dangerous psychotropic drugs and labeling me a mental incompetent. Such would have caused me to lose my law enforcement certification, (I’m now retired from such) as well as have forced me to relinquish my rights to arms. While I once drank a lot of beer, I no longer imbibe and have never hurt another human being, except in defense of self and others, nor would I ever dream of doing so.
    Having PTSD doesn’t make anyone a danger, but losing one’s inalienable rights to defend themselves, most certainly does make them a defenseless victim.
    The right to defense of self, family, home and community far predates any form of government ever devised by mankind.

  52. I am a Marine. and what this says to me is that we can only play with weapons on Uncle Sam’s watch, Are you serious there are all kinds of laws being broken here. I am with Charlton Heston, you can have my guns when you pry them from my cold dead hands

  53. In the country in which I was raised and voluntarily served, citizens were Presumed Innocent until Proven Guilty.
    In the case of the VA vrs Veteran’s firearms rights, the veteran is presumed Guilty (Mentally disturbed) merely for needing financial assistance in managing his VA benefits, without any adjudication whatsoever,. He then must expend a serious amount of time and money proving that is not so.
    Sorry Gun Grabbers, but what you are proposing is taking away the inalienable rights that these people fought to guarantee for all Americans, without giving them the very rights which they fought to protect.
    Should a proper court of law, with the proper jurisdiction decide this, it would be uncontestable, after the proper Appeals process, of course, but since there was No Court and No Hearing Involved, this is political theft, pursuant to a political agenda, which Harms ALL Americans, not protects them.

    1. Rocky, read SF Doc’s explanation of the process and the difficulties in actually having a court of law revoke an enumerated right.
      The process is the same as an involuntary commitment process, nearly impossible to get a court to agree to.

  54. Join the Army and Lose Your Guns Forever!
    What a Recruiting Line!
    “Be, All that You Can Be, and Lose Your Guns, in the ARrrmmMY”

  55. So I guess veterans HIPPA doesn’t pertain to or medical history why don’t we find out the FBI ‘ S mental history on there agents since they want to know ours

    1. If one seeks treatment, one signs away parts of HIPPA. Indeed, civilian doctors are also required to report significant mental illness.

  56. WOW , I am a Vet have had the WORST care ever , they wont even address my service connected disabilities , will NOT send me to any Ortho or Pain Management clinics. I had to PAY out of pocket for an Orthopedic Dr. to address my Service Connected Disabilities and when confronted the VA doc. said well I see you are seeing an outside doctor thats good BUT in the same breath added He Would NOT authorize any payment for my meds !!! Some BUNCH of CRAP ! 1 month meds is over $500.00

  57. Is this not a means of discouraging Veterans from seeking care at a VA hospital? For fear of losing their gun rights? What a delicious way for the VA to reduce their patient load and wait times for appointments at no cost to the VA. Is there a purpose such as this behind what the VA is doing? One has to wonder….

    1. Congress sets the laws in place that the VA has to follow. The President signs into law or has a veto overridden.
      The VA can’t invent policy out of whole cloth, as its policies are set by Congress.

    2. You are absolutely right. I have a service connected disability but when it flares up the VA is the last place I will seek aid. I simply don’t trust that there will be any confidentiality. While my disability is physical rather than mental i don’t want to be on their list for anything.

  58. Liberals volunteer at hospitals because they’re too chickensh^%$ to serve. Then badmouth those who did. Pathetic.

  59. So what do you say of a leader who bows down to his enemies-who destroys his country economically through redistribution yet amasses a fortune-whose cronies sell automatic arms to another country to be used against his own people yet seeks to disarm the population of those very people who elected him -who insists on blaming others-who blatantly defies the Constitutional Laws that are supposed to bind his people lawfully-who claims Christian faith yet supports Islamic dictatorships that ally themselves with those that behead Christians and Jews-who strips the very country whose protection he swore to uphold of its militarys strength. You can call him mentally unstable -you can call him self-delusional -I call him Barack Hussein Obama

  60. Sadly the “DUMB MAJORITY” is running the “US of A” into a deep hole of worthlessness.This once great nation is no longer the country the world respects and trust’s.

    “We The People” are no longer served by the people we voted for and trusted to run this country the right way.

    “We The People” are now serving our elected “Masters in Washington”. Who only serve themselves.Too many of the “DUMB MAJORITY”, are too busy with their own life problems to concern themselves with the running of this nation and it’s problems.Thus the continued lowering of the American standard of living. The “bar of life” that was once set high in America, is now so low, you need to crawl on your belly to get under it.

    There are too few of us “SMART MINORITY” to make the changes this country needs to put America back on top. Our numbers are too few to make the difference with a vote.The only way for the “SMART MINORITY” to help right the continuing wrongs of this country.Is by a BLOODY REVOLT. YES, BLOOD must be spilled to thin down the numbers of the “DUMB MAJORITY”. So the “DUMB MAJORITY” will become the “DUMB FEW”.That is the only way I see this once great country, becoming a great nation again.

    Tyranny has many faces, right now the “DUMB MAJORITY” is one of them.

  61. Hide Behind is a name that is befitting of this person. He knows not of that which he speaks. I am being nice hear but agree with the others here that you need a good slapping. I am a 100% disabled Veteran and the things you say and imply is an insult to EVERY Veteran that has ever served ! So you keep Hiding Behind everything because you are to much a coward to show your true self which is the very definition of the word ” COWARD ” and are not fit to shine the boots of any Veteran you supposedly ” helped ” while employed by the government run VA !!!

  62. I’m not a vet and I own guns, but I have medical records. I also was one of those who, after the VTech shooting, insisted that, rather than limiting everyones access to firearms, we should limit them to those with mental problems. Seems that this is a step in doing that, and I approve, provided the usual confidentiality provisions are followed.

    1. There are already laws limiting gun ownership for those adjudicated mentally defective. Thanks for being part of the problem instead of part of the solution.

    2. Suppose your therapist is an anti-gun Liberal [as many are] who thinks only the police should have guns. Don’t you think that before the jack booted thugs ransack your house and cart off Grandpa’s .22 rifle among other prized possessions, you should be able to defend yourself before a jury of your peers?

    3. Sure, it’s called a “taking” under the Constitution, and it requires both due process and reimbursement by the government. The article was about treatment being reported, not that anyone has had a weapon taken.

    4. Paranoia is a “mental problem”. You sure sound paranoid to me. You should NOT!!! be allowed to own a gun!
      Why should veterans like me be denied the freedoms that we fought for. Because I suffer from Depression and PTSD? I don’t believe any of these killers in recent decades were veterans. I’m deeply offended by your words.
      Oh, and by the way, you’re welcome. I was glad to sacrifice my blood, and my mental health so you can live in relative safety and security, and enjoy the freedoms provided me, and so many others like me.

    5. If you’re talking to me, Psychovet, I question your understanding of paranoia, I never mentioned PTSD and the report was that treatment was being reported, not that anyone’s guns had been taken.

      You might want to chill out a little, as your remarks seem to make a case for those who would take guns away from those suffering from depression.

    6. Unfortunately, the VA’s process is akin to “guilty until proven innocent.” The VA notifies the FBI and tells VA patients in the same breath that they can appeal the decision. The patient is not involved in the decision in the first place, nor has any input, even through a lawyer, into the process. The patient’s input all comes after-the-fact, after he or she is denied due process. I agree with you that people with documented mental health issues should be denied the right to purchase a weapon, but there are many types of mental illness and not all of them warrant this action. And, being on the FBI’s Instant Background Check database only precludes one from walking into a licensed firearms dealer and buying a gun – it does not take away your right to own or possess one, so it is an incomplete process in that regard.

  63. A rebuttal to “HIDE BEHIND” It’s guys like you that discourage the troops from going to the VA to seek help !
    With your A H ATTITUDE ,WHO THE F ARE YOU TO DETERMINE WHO NEEDS HELP AND LOOK DOWN YOUR NOSE AT EVERYONE THAT SEEKS HELP!
    I THINK PEOPLE LIKE YOU SHOULD BE BAHHED FROM DOING VOLUNTEER WORK AT THE VA !
    You and people like you are not part of the SOLUTION you are the PROBLEM with the VA ..

  64. Ya nothing is perfect.I like the VA.Its my only health care. I’ve had other health care (kiaser) and like the VA better.
    Here in California they ain’t bad.
    I know if you act crazy angry you will be tagged. No matter where you go.
    Laws or no laws.
    If you project crazy you set yourself up for failure. As far as cutting the VA budget , email your congressman. Those f’ers talk big spit but they keep cutting the VA budget.

  65. Sorry but a vet in VA coverage is a ward of the State, in this case State being Federal. As such his every action while under their care is allowed to be scrutenized by their medical staff, and the law requires them to report.
    I did volunteer workViet vets and agent orange and POWMIA crybaby charity vets and having military contact most of my life I knew the biggest cry babies were retired or injured while active duty.
    They come in contact with a piss-ant bite and try to get disabilty anything they can get they think is owed to them.
    Sorry but no Super Rights for military enumerated in the Constitution, Bill of Rights or Declaration of Independence..
    We have ex GI’s offing themselves 22 times a day, I would say that maybe we got a far bigger problem than just those 22 per .besides just those offing themselves.
    Active military more men get raped by fellow males than males rapimg females nut that is not a mental issue.
    You have sppec ops and grunts on legal speed provided by military and stetoids and testostetone increaded by pill , that is not a mental problem as long as they remain active duty.
    A citizen has to fight for gun rights while cops and judges and prosecuters get Special dispensationd to purvhade and rights of carry.
    A volunterr military you should know the past hidtory of just how easily your old comrade in arms callls you a pussy for whining so.The worse enemy a mentally disturbed or undiagnosed illness had is the men still active.
    They chose a good paying vocation as mercenary warrior and warriors don’t cry.
    Look at your employment contract and try breaking it withput looding your bennies.
    US military one of most effecient Socialist Organizations in world.
    Do what normal healthy citizensdo if denief permission you beg for, beg a little harder.

    1. You are an idiot…half of what you say is either not true or you have been reading too much into the newspapers around the checkout at Walmart. Old 10th sfg here both in Colorado and Germany and never given enhancement drugs or steroids. Grow up and stop being sour you never saw the sh*t

    2. First off, I am a veteran and military retiree.
      I’ve had buddies liked in Iraq, others horrifically injured, including one very good friend who lost half of one foot, all of his fingers on one hand, one ear, one eye and burns over his entire body.
      In your version of the world, he’d get no help, his family would starve and a hell of a lot of the military would be moving to level the government that screwed their peers.

      But, we’re in the real world, where veterans injured in the line of duty are compensated for their injury in the line of duty. I also know that you’re full of crap, as *no* POW/MIA veteran came in to seek services, they never got to come home, you lying sack of excrement!
      Let me introduce you to something else in the real world. Had you spoken that filth to my face, by the second sentence was started, your airway would have been obliterated. I”d then file a national security letter and go home.
      For, again in the real world, I’ve only recently retired. When I was with SOCCENT, the only steroids I got was for a blown out knee. I’d apologize for offending your dainty sensibilities, but I know that you have no sense, hence, no sensibilities.

      Here is a bit of homework for you. Think of the most offensive things that could be said to you, then double the offense.
      Because, to be completely up front, I’ve killed badder than you wiping my arse during my morning class 1 download. An arse you are not fit to kiss in Macy’s window during the New Years parade.
      The best part of you didn’t run down your old man’s leg, it stayed in the rubber.

      As an aside, the IED bomber was eventually captured – in Louisville, Kentucky. Quite some time after Bush the Lesser declared our nation impenetrable, doing his very best to get bomb making supplies and firearms to ship back to Iraq.
      Said bomber and accomplice are now permanent “guests ” of our federal penal system.

    3. Dear Hide Your Behind,
      ILL dare you complain about the freedoms I provide you! If your unhappy I suggest you pick up a rifle and stand post!!!

    4. Nice name, you must be using “blinders” when you wrote your comment. At least turn on your spell checker. You might want to volunteer for an English Composition class as well. As for my opinion, this is the only comment that your post deserves..
      USN Retired – 20+ Yrs.

    5. Clearly, this illiterate turd is no vet. If he ever had any experience with the military, it was most likely when the recruiter told him, “sorry man, we can’t take you. You’re too f’ing stupid”.

  66. Get your facts straight. Eddie Routh was NEVER diagnosed with PTSD. He was a paranoid schizophrenic with sociopathic and violent tendencies. He never served in combat or even left the base once he arrived.

  67. I got this message in my email yesterday. I know it’s been around, but I thought it would be timely and relevant.
    ***********************************************************************

    Wild Pigs – A Reminder For All

    “Remove one freedom per generation and soon you will have no freedom and no one would have
    noticed.” Carl Marx

    There was a chemistry professor in a large college that had some exchange students in the class.

    One day while the class was in the lab, the professor noticed one young man, an exchange student, who kept rubbing his back and stretching as if his back hurt. The professor asked the young man what was the matter.

    The student told him he had a bullet lodged in his back. He had been shot while fighting communists in his native country who were trying to overthrow his country’s government and install a new communist regime.

    In the midst of his story, he looked at the professor and asked a strange question. He asked: “Do you know how to catch wild pigs?”

    The professor thought it was a joke and asked for the punch line.

    The young man said that it was no joke. “You catch wild pigs by finding a suitable place in the woods and putting corn on the ground. The pigs find it and begin to come every day to eat the free food.

    “When they are used to coming every day, you put a fence down one side of the place where they are used to coming. When they get used to the fence, they begin to eat the corn again and you put up another side of the fence.

    “They get used to that and start to eat again. You continue until you have all four sides of the fence up with a gate in the last side.

    “The pigs, which are used to the free corn, start to come through the gate to eat that free corn again. You then slam the gate on them and catch the whole herd. Suddenly the wild pigs have lost their freedom. They run around and around inside the fence, but they are caught. Soon they go back to
    eating the free corn. They are so used to it that they have forgotten how to forage in the woods for themselves, so they accept their captivity.”

    The young man then told the professor that is exactly what he sees happening in America. The government keeps pushing us toward Communism/Socialism and keeps spreading the free corn out in the form of programs such as supplemental income, tax credit for unearned income, tax exemptions,
    tobacco subsidies, dairy subsidies, payments not to plant certain crops (CRP), welfare “entitlements”, medicine, drugs, etc., while we continually lose our freedoms, just a little at a time.

    One should always remember two truths:

    There is no such thing as a free lunch,
    and you can never hire someone to provide a service for you cheaper than you can do it yourself.

    If you see that all of this wonderful government “help” is a problem confronting the future of democracy in America, you might want to share this with your friends.

    If you think the free ride is essential to your way of life, then you will probably not share this.

    BUT, God help us all when the gate slams shut!

    1. And with tripe like that, VA benefits have been cut for the past 30 years, including year one of the war in Iraq.
      Just yet another person disparaging entitlements, which are fundamental rights citizens used to enjoy.
      It’s bovine defecation spread around like that invented story that makes this veteran sorry he defended this failing nation and sure as hell sorry he returned home after retiring from the Army.

    2. @Wzrd1 – Now I’m thinking to myself….How does one respond to a comment such as yours? Should I insult you right back as you have gratuitously insulted me? Do I attempt to actually engage you in a debate?
      Then reason, coupled with experience tells me that I would only be trying to communicate with someone clearly with emotional issues, and like a disturbed hornet’s nest, it is simply best to just walk away.
      Good luck on your recovery…..from whatever it is that has so disturbed you.

  68. Yes indeed, the VA is sending records to the FBI and has been doing so for a long time. I am not able to purchase a gun now because of it. I have never broken a law or even been accused of breaking a law. I have never harmed anyone or ever threatened to harm anyone. I have never even been in a fight with anyone, been reported for domestic abuse or done anything in anyway to appear to do so, yet I was not given due process and civil rights have been taken from me. I have gone to my county sheriff, and he refuses to even talk to me about it. It seems that everyone is afraid of the big bad FBI and what they will do to them. Where is justice for me? Who can I complain to? Who can I sue for redress? No one will listen to me!

    1. Reed, first try your Congresscritters. If that fails, contact an attorney, who can guide you through the process of petitioning the court to have your records amended/corrected.

  69. How is this legal? If other medical professionals do not have to submit a list of their patients who have had any mental health issues, why should the VA? The VA, by doing this will ensure that many individual Vets who need help WILL NOT SEEK IT due to the reporting criteria. Are Vets being punished for the “crime” of defending this nation? Last time I checked, it was an honor to serve. There is no honor in the VA, bowing to gun control fanatics instead of serving the Vets who did their duty. Last time I checked, it wasn’t Vets shooting up Sandy Hook or Columbine, it was civilian nut jobs who don’t have to be reported to the FBI.

    1. I am a veteran. What you don’t understand is these individuals are getting PAID disability for a mental illness. They are disabled. Plain and simple. I am a veteran and I did not claim a disability. It is amazing how many people do. They come to you when you get out and pretty much tell you to apply for a disability. Perhaps this will truly keep the money going to those that deserve it.

  70. If this is true, I may be in jeopardy of having my Gun rights revoked. Consequently prompting me to seek legal advice, while also being dismayed at the current American legal system.

    Where does the nonsense end, brothers?

    I have read articles on Veterans with Mental Health disorders being blasted for having gun rights in the past. Half of me wants to dismiss this as careless banter about Veterans from ignorant asses.

    The other half keeps wondering how likely – how probable this actually may be in the works.

    The population ten years ago gave us guns and told us to go kill terrorists. Now they want to take them away and fear that we are the terrorists. What if anything are we to do about a misguided public perception of Marines with an ability to be hostile in times of necessity?

    But alas, the public doesn’t seem to care so much about that.

    You are right that the label of “PTSD” comes with a price tag for both the federal government and potentially myself. I am glad i live in a state that allows me more personal freedoms; florida has a tendency to shield gun owners more than say, California. Maybe, it will be a few years before this is actually federally mandated. By then, I might just be a different citizen.

    Hopefully i can stay a gun owner, A Proud Veteran, a resident of Florida, and an American Citizen.

    Sgt. Casey Johnston
    USMC
    2001-2006

  71. As a retired Army Special Forces Physician and a former VA employee, I want to help bring light to this article to assaude conjecture. I like countless of my fellow brothers and sisters in arms have suffered from PTSD for over 10 years. The FBI/VA cannot put you on the NCIS for having had sought help for PTSD or other Mental illness unless you have formally been diagnosed by a licensed “physician” ( not a financial counselor)with a condition “thats’ severity has caused you to have had or currently has caused you to actively have either attempted, intended or planned to comit suicide or homicide AND intend to act upon such” period!!! These are the exact same criteria which are needed to involuntarily admit an individual to a mental institution. Believe it or not, these criteria are extremely difficult to prove to a judge or magistrate who is required to formally sign off on such. Any link to the inability to manage financial obligations must be directly linked to a licensed physician’s documentation of mental incapacity, NOT situations such as divorce or non-mental or cognitive inability. However, the one loop hole that continues to effect vulnerable vets is a history of drug and or alcohol abuse. This is one issue I take tremendous issue with as I’ve had countless Vets turn to alcohol or drugs to self treat their mental illnesses prior to obtaining care. Although once and addict always an addict may be a common statement it gives no credence to recovering addicts. I employe all Vets to seek help from the DAV and other veterans groups should you fine yourself in this God forbidden, unrighteous situation. There are many physician Vets who are here for you!!! None of us will ever leave you behind!!!

    1. Appreciate your comments. I was just medically retired after 22 years as an Infantryman (1SG) with the 101st Airborne mainly, wounded in Iraq (IED). My wife is my VA compensated caregiver.

      Just last Thurs, I get a call from my Wounded Warrior Project POA who tells me they are raising my disability from 90% to 100% with a proposal of incompetence. He instructs me to start getting statements from psychiatrist stating I can handle my own affairs and sent me a generic format so we can start addressing this before I’m notified by mail. Unfortunately, the next day, Fri, I get a call from a VA rep pretty much telling me the same thing and briefing me on the Brady Bill as per SOP.

      I have a plethora of service connected disabilities but I handle my finances and am more than capable of handling all of my own affairs. Yeah, I get horrible migraines, have some short term memory loss, double vision in left eye, walk with a cane but I also went deer hunting last fall, have a CCW and am a volunteering member of our local shooting club. Not one firearm in my hands has ever fired when it wasn’t supposed too and the thousands of rounds that I did send downrange were directed at America’s enemies and ordered to be sent downrange by the same party that is proposing that I pay someone 10% of my VA disability to manage my VA disability.

      I’m affected by war and injuries like many of us and will be for life but to assign a fiduciary vs my wife to handle my VA pay my 2nd amendment right and the little hunting I actually can do, is simply wrong. I can handle my affairs and any weapon I’m trained on. I have researched, the burden of proof lies with the VA.

      I’m likely to receive this proposed rating prior to attaining a letter from my psychiatrist so it’ll likely be an appeal. In this appeal process all of my backpay from the last year and a half will be withheld pending decision.

      Simply nuts. Honestly, I’d miss hunting season but could give up my weapons. Someone all up in my family business is what really gets me, and having to pay for it.

      Does DAV have any special interest in these incompetency proposals?

    2. TOP(Todd), I actually think we may have met if you came through the Center for the Intrepid. I want to protect your Health Info though. Yes the DAV now is aware of this insue. Like you my rating is 90%. I had erroneously believed taking 100% would disqualify me from continue to work as a physician taking care of felling verbs at a major D.O.D facility. There are two ways to “accept” the 100% rating. You DO NOT and in my humble opinion check the box for “incompetent or incapacitated”. Not only will it cause the issues about, but you will loose your Tricare Benefit. I have seen fellow vets literally loose this benefit because the claimed they were incapacitated and could not work! The ability to work will NOT preclude a 100% rating. Unfortunately some of the poorly educated Federal Benefits Advisors do not know the law and tell service members to check this box! If you select 100% “incapacitated” you will only be eligible for Medcade for all not service cmected issues. I’ve had amputees literally loose their Tricare Prime because of this mistake!!! Please don’t become one of them. As a Civil Servant Physician Now, I and my colleagues combine to WANT to CARE for you!!!! !’ I would accept the 100% rating, but do not accept the incompetent rating at any cost. Even if the “case” is in the system you can still “refuse to accept it”!! Please do this then refile the claim and make sure the rating is one which is rated 100% without an “inability work or incapacitated criteria”. Please don’t let them give up your and your family’s greatest benefit!!! The only back pay they will hold is the funds associated with the added 10%, not the remaining 90%. This I know from personal experience. As Docs do not go through the same Board Process and literally have to be signed out by the SECDEF, Rumsfeld refused to take me of the TDRL list for three yrs. Like I was going to be miraculously “cured”. Thank GOD Sec Gates and Gen Casey personally signed me out within 2 weeks of the change of command, with both writing to apologize for adding insult to injury. Please link up with your local DAV, if they cannot help they can refer you to a DAV with Docs and Lawyers who will “fight to the death for you”. Our motto “De Oppresso Liber” still applies this time to our own oppressed service members. You will never be left behind.

    3. SF Doc

      Where can we talk? I’m kinda confused right now. I retired out of that major facility where the CFI is. Spent two years in that WTB. Look me up on Facebook. Think I posted my email also

    4. Todd if you could resend an email contact, I’d be happy to help explain things for you. I retired out of BAMC in 2005, but returned in 2011-2014. Part of my responsibility was to assist the CFI staff manage difficult pain problems and I would generally spend Thursday’s there with one of the full time CFI physicians. I do not believe I personally treated you but likely met in passing. During my tenure, I was the Director for Special Operations Pain Managent.

      Regards,

      Doc

    5. SF Doc

      todd.landen@gmail.com

      We were there at the same time. I’m almost positive you heard about what they did to me in the WTB. I’m willing to bet you met my wife. I was a regular patient at the Pain Clinic in the main hospital. Would like to chat this up some a little more privately

    6. SF Doc

      Havent hear from you. Not sure if there is some email blocking on here. todd dot landen at geee mail dot com

      looking forward to talking with you

    7. Thanks doc, indeed, no one left behind!
      US Army, retired
      46N
      18D
      41E
      91B
      91W
      11Z

      I retired when it started to become too painful to put all of that crap on and was facing becoming a fobbit.

  72. Woody, the VA is completely within their rights, imperatively required to send this report to ANY law enforcement agency—State, local or Federal.
    Veterans agree to this in the privacy policy statements to receive treatment.
    Your local hospital, clinic or doctor is required also!
    Folks with mental problems(diagnosed as active and severe) do not need to be messing with firearms—or any other “weapon”.

    1. James, I remember a new transfer of a soldier into my company, some years ago.
      He had erratic behavior, when alone, he talked to someone who wasn’t there, he had a plethora of other issues that drove our Captain to order the armorer to not issue him a weapon and ordered him to not carry a knife in the field. He was sent out for a psych evaluation and passed it. The Captain then sent him for a second opinion, he was separated from the service and referred to the VA.
      A month after separation, we found him sleeping in the armory.
      I personally drove him to the VA hospital and conferred with the staff of the mental health department to be certain that he got the help that he needed.
      I lost track of him after we deployed, but hope he was able to continue treatment and live a more wholesome life.

  73. I wonder how they reconcile HIPPA law versus an administrative policy? If they come after me (100% SC PTSD), My wife has attorney privileges in the VA Appeals Court and my son is just now preparing to take the bar so I will have two lawyers to sic on ’em.
    After 35 years of experience dealing with the VA system and as a former PA-C in private family practice before retiring, I will say this about the VA – the health care is fairly good here in Seattle but administratively the VA is NOT your friend and they place far more emphasis on lining their pockets and not doing their jobs that – as we now know – is criminal.

    1. As a veteran, you should have noticed the 30 years of declining VA budgets, each and every year, counting the first year of warfare in Iraq.

      Meanwhile, the author of the article is disingenous in that he fails to mention the Brady Act, which requires mental health care professionals to report those who are mentally ill to the state of residence and that state, to report to the federal government.
      Apparently, the author is happy with the mentally ill having access to firearms. We’ve already lost one former SEAL to a veteran suffering from PTSD on a range, do we need civilians also brought into the act next?

    2. Oh, you Wzrd1 are an example of what is wrong with people who know absolutely nothing about mental issues making comments in a forum like this. You over generalize and do not understand what you are saying. Mental conditions have a very wide spectrum of issues, and some of them have nothing to do with someone harming themselves or others. There are even some situations where if you take a medication once and have an allergic reaction to it, it will create a “reportable” incident. If you are going to be so ignorant as to group everyone together like that, why don’t we start with diabetes too and hundreds of other medical conditions. Someone with diabetes could have a “reaction” and have a low blood sugar and loss control of a gun, or a car or a carving knife in his or her own home and someone might get hurt. Oh, and we had better prevent all medically “affected” persons from getting ladders and owning a baseball bat or a knife or having a glass of water, someone might get hurt! You could fall off of a ladder, drown drinking a glass of water or faint while holding a knife, oh my! These turkeys that go to places to kill people, go to places without guns! Even they are not so deranged as to choose places where they might get shot. Owning a gun is a right, and unless you are a felon, then you have the right. Mentally ill individuals will always find ways to hurt others, at least make it so that everyone can protect themselves. Oh, I am a doctor and have seen all these things first hand.

    3. That seal also had ptsd and an advocate for gunrights and rights for vets…specifically for ptsd. If he could speak today, he would most likely still feel the same way. That guy had more issues than just ptsd and just bc you have ptsd doesn’t mean you go shoot people.

    4. Many veterans have been shot , stabbed, beat to death and killed by other vets.
      They weren’t movie stars so know one gives a spit.

  74. i’m a recently medically retired Infantry First Sergeant. Spent most of my 22 year career with the 101st Airborne and 10th Mountain Divisions. I was separated from Service last year at 90% disability after being wounded in Iraq. We pressed the VA to recognize my all of my physical injuries with additional claims using the Wounded Warrior Project as my Power of Attorney. I got a call May 1st from my WWP POA telling me the VA had raised my disability to 100% with a proposal of incompetence. He told me to get a statement from a psychiatrist asap before the proposal letter was sent out. The very next Day, May 2nd, a VA rep called to tell me my rating were raised and the incompetence proposal once solidified (and all are unless headed off or appealed), I will have to surrender all of my weapons and a fiduciary will be appointed to handle my VA disability pay. Although my wife is my compensated VA caregiver, I have to request her to be my fiduciary. Also, the VA will have to retroactively pay me for the last year of the claim being decided. If my wife’s credit score is not up to whatever standards, I’ll literally have to pay someone 10% of my VA disability to manage that entitlement

    I had a brain injury and many others. I’ve had 21 surgeries to date. I am more than capable of handling my own affairs and went deer hunting last fall. In a state of panic right now. I’m have an appt with my psychiatrist on the 11th to hopefully write a simple statement confirming I can handle my own affairs.

    This is the most ridiculous thing. I have a CCW and carry daily. I know how to be safe and every weapon I have is locked and cleared then stored in a safe when I get home. in 22 years of Service, many of them carrying a loaded M4, my gun never fired when it wasn’t supposed too.

    Not only are my 2nd amendment rights being violated but whats up with paying a VA appointed fiduciary to handle that portion of my entitlements and pension. Fortunately, I have multiple benefits and entitlements so my VA disability pay is only about 1/4 of my total monthly pay.

    Since these two phone calls last week, I feel like a criminal. I don’t even have a parking ticket. Any attorneys or psychiatrists out there care to lend a hand, I can be reached at todd.landen@gmail.com (315) 222-4861. I live in Sioux City, Iowa with my wife and 9 y/o daughter. This cant happen and hopefully my psychiatrist will write the statement I need. I cant imagine paying someone to handle a portion of my finances, especially if I’m married to my caregiver. I could live without having guns but I don’t want too. I’m being treated like I’m a nutjob. Yes, I had a brain injury with residual symptoms from it but I went through a few years of hard therapy to regain a lot. I have horrible migraines still, memory loss and some double vision in my left eye.

    This is completely overwhelming. I sure hope we can retain a medical competency statement from a psychiatrist. If my VA one wont do it, I’ll pay out of pocket to be assessed and a statement generated. I sure shouldn’t have too. I fought hard and still bleed for this country. This type of behavior from the VA and Federal government is pure harrasment

    Thanks for letting me vent folks. Any help would be appreciated.

    Todd Landen
    US Army, (ret0
    Infantry, 1SG

  75. Recently I have sought mental health at the VA for anxiety, and each time I see a new doctor or get interviewed to start counseling, I am asked if I have any guns. I know it is illegal for them to ask me, so I divulge each time that I have quite a gun collection–Nerf guns that is! Ha!
    “I’ll give you my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands!”

    1. I’ve used the line, “I have a gun and know how to grease my car with it!”.
      The over 50 crowd loves that joke.

  76. Unless a vet with PTSD is making threats or having thoughts of commiting mass violence then the F.B.I. has no reason to place him or her on a no buy lisr for firearms, lots of vets will be afraid to come forword and get the treatment they may need for themselves to keep them off of drugs and alcohol if they think that a v.a. doctor will contact the F.B.I. and that from that point on they can not have a constitutional right that they fought to preserve for the rest of us. All this because there is an anti gun socialist sitting in the capital, It is a slap in the face to any vet who has served to protect our country to be told that they can not own our buy a firearm because they were in a high stress situation on a day to day and need to talk to someone and destress from it so that they don’t act out against the very people that they care about and fought to protect.

    1. JD is it? It’s very clear you have never served in combat and I’d wager never at all. The whole post was pretty much mindless rambling that’s on par with a forum like CTD for the types it attracts in bulk. But the ending was what REALLY justifies you a rap on the beak. That ignorant comment about shooters (and I’ll paraphrase here) “in a high stress situation on a daily basis needing to talk to someone to ‘destress'[clearly not even a word but we can guess what your intent was] so they don’t [and let me see if I get this stupid sh*t correct] ACT OUT AGAINST the very people the care about and fought to protect?!! WTF over?! 1st of all, veterans dealing with PTSD DO NOT threaten other people nor are they a threat to anyone but themselves IF ANYONE!! People like you regurgitating this kinda BS is the reason vets get discriminated against when they accept their diagnosis! You and the mainstream media perpetuate this idea that a combat vet with PTSD is some sort of ticking time bomb that should be molly coddled to prevent a mass casualty situation. It’s that exact narrative that the gun grabbing lobby uses to justify disarming us. When people come on sites like this making ignorant comments that seem to reinforce their agenda, don’t you think they’re screenshoting your post and reposting it on their social media and blogs saying “look here, even the 2A side and the III%’ers think that PTSD vets are dangerous to the public when left unchecked.” ?

    2. Viper_002, a very small number of PTSD sufferers are indeed a time bomb. Those are hypervigilant, they have episodes where they relive some combat experiences.
      Those are the once that need the most intensive care, before they do harm someone unintentionally or worse, disappear down the deep end of a bottle.

  77. Very well said. I am a 100% disabled vet and give the drs at the VA absolutely no more info than “I” deem necessary. When my wife signed up for care they badgered her about guns saying “we just want to make sure they are safely stored”. She still told them it was none of their business and finally got the so called nurse to shut up by saying I don’t have a gun but if I did I would never tell you. It is appalling what has become of the nation we fought for thanks to the monkey and the wookie in the WH!

  78. I’m a combat veteran who had this done to them. I love hunting and being outdoors I will admit I went thru some bad times after being in combat, but my loyalties to this country and my family never changed. I would still put my life on the line for this country. At the same time I feel betrayed by the Government, I gave everything and when I needed their help they took away the things I gave sweat and blood for. And it doesn’t stop with my guns I have to take monthly urine or I will lose my medical help also, I also get harassment by most police officers because I’m listed as disabled with PTSD they automatically see me as a threat, I’ve spent countless times handcuffed and sitting on the side of the road because they have reason to belive I’m doing something wrong. Basically I’m treated as a felon for serving my country. I used to take my kids shooting and hunting, now I can’t show my grandchildren our traditions. I have lost much faith in our Government in the last 20 years, they want to strip us of everything, make us into obedient puppets with no say in choosing how we live our personal lives.

  79. This is BS , these Soldiers go over there carry a weapon until the day they leave . They talk to a shrink and come back here and are no longer allowed to carry a weapon . There is something wrong with that . Why is the VA taking Military records and giving them to the FBI . That is BS ! What a slap in the face to all Veterans .

    1. I was awarded a 70% PTSD disability 4 years ago. My problem: I think about the Viet Nam war regularly since retiring, and have the occasional flashback. I just decided to embrace it and let the memories come whenever. The VA based the award on my “combat medals” and never offered any treatment at all. My personal doctor is a Viet Nam vet also and we talk often. I have no symptoms of mental illness. I operated heavy equipment for 30 years and I am as sane as anyone else.

    2. If the feds can make the va do this, couldn’t they do the same with obamacare? Medicare? Or anything else they control?

    3. Read what SF Doc wrote, a few pages further along.
      He explains the process and how difficult it is to actually add someone to the list.

  80. knowing what i know about Government i think there are deeper issues here. Many people Just need a DSM manual and a little out of the box thinking.
    Having too much stress? Crazy! dog die and your sad? Your crazy! high blood pressure? Your crazy! break up and have financial issues? You unfit to own a gun!

    See? How easy was that?
    Its like using the word Terrorist? too subjective to points of views.
    And PTSD effect people very differently. Its also know as the Soldiers Conscience. Just because you have PTSD doesnt mean your irresponsible. I think PTSD can be a positive in some ways. really?
    Sure! Heightened senses, more caution, looking for ways to exitif need be, being cautious of your surroundings etc…All very smart things to do ANYWAYS.
    So you see, mentally ill is so subjective to point of views. Take any person in America or the world and if i was told to give a diagnosis to see if they are ill I CAN DO IT. no problem. Its like calling a fastfood cashier a Payroll Processor. Kinda true right? just describing the same job with different words to fit the occasion.

    Note: i had the VA offer me a free lock one time. They asked if i had firearms. I simply told them that information is not related to my case at all and its none of their business. Pretty neutral response.

  81. I, personally, have eschewed treatment for possible PTSD, for decades, due to fears that such programs would be utilized to deprive me of my inalienable rights, protected, not granted, by the Constitution.

    It would appear that my fears were well founded, indeed.
    It ceases to be ‘paranoia’ and ‘conspiracy theories’ when such accusations are proven to be factual in nature.

    The right to defense of self, family, home and community far predates any government ever devised by mankind, for it’s own rule.

    1. I too have quit going to the VA because of this B.S.
      The government is causing more problems with their interference.
      How many of other Brothers are not going for help from the VA because their health and welfare are being made public!!!

  82. The FFL form we have to fill out and be ran prior to purchasing a legal firearm is good enough as that info goes straight to the FBI data base for them to check out your information over the phone prior to purchasing any firearm. I have PTSD from working 21 years in a Level I Trauma big city University E/R, dealing with a lot of death and angry patients and people waiting with them as well as relatives of dead trauma patents. It takes it’s toll. But I am in no way unable to own a firearm, after all I carried one on my hip as I was the University police Sgt./Supv. All the firearms I own are “6- shot revolvers and two pump shotguns. If I was a dangerous person wouldn’t I own a semi-auto of some kind? I am treated at a V. A. Hospital and so far nothing has been mentioned about the several revolvers or shotguns I own. I might add I am a right leg amputee and in the State of Miss. we are an open carry and conceal carry State. Sometimes I carry a 6 shot revolver on my belt while in my electric wheelchair. I don’t carry it in Govt. buildings and the many stores that say on the outside “no firearms inside.” As that is part of the State law. But we can carry in our vehicles any firearm we want because MS. law states your vehicle is and extension of your home. I would be quite upset if I (as a person who is in an electric wheelchair could not carry to protect myself as to the bad guys I am nothing but a rolling bulls-eye.) I live near New Orleans and have had my chair turned over and my cargo shorts cut off with a box cutter and lost my wallet with all it’s contents and my van and house keys. That will never happen again. I live alone since my wife died and I have no one but me to protect me.

  83. We should all keep in mind that it is not in our best interests for people with serious mental illness to own firearms. Every time some loon shoots up a theater, school or a busload of nuns, it causes a huge outcry for more gun control laws and restrictions on the rest of us. Virtually all of the outrageous mass shootings have been committed by people with serious mental illness, and almost all of the would have been preventable without offense to the rights of the average gun owner. Firearms and mental illness do not mix well.

    1. Virtually all the shootings are committed by people hopped up on anti-depressants and other psych drugs

    2. None of the instances you cite was committed by a vet. Also, it is unlawful to deprive someone – anyone – of his rights without due process, regardless of mental state. The correct procedure is to have a fair, legal judgment FIRST before taking someone’s rights. The VA is on the wrong side, and so are you if you think this is ok.

    3. Unfortunately the government, the press and Hollywood have deemed that combat veterans are dangerous. I served two years in combat. The PTSD I have experienced revolves around my friends not coming home. If anything this has made me less prone to violence than most people that never served at all. I never want to have to hurt anyone ever again. I still love my guns and really enjoy target shooting, hunting and fishing. I have a CCW and carry every day. So does this make me a threat. I don’t think so. If anything, I am a patriot that has sworn an oath to protect my country against all threats, both foreign and domestic. I take that oath seriously which is why our government considers veterans to be a threat. We have proven our loyalty to America and our dedication to protect the Constitution.

  84. My wife calls me a “Crazy old coot”, but fortunately, I haven’t had to be treated for the condition at a VA hospital (or any other, for that matter). I have to agree with other posters — this “new policy” of the VA is just another end-run attempt by the Obummer administration to implement their “Take the guns away from the civilians” program (just like Hitler did, pre-WWII).

  85. The VA has been supplying information about vets who seek treatment for PTSD. The use of the diagnosis as a means to seek drugs, like valium, will backfire on many vets. They have already been identified as unfit to purchase a firearm and they will not pass the background check.

  86. Any vet coming back stateside pay attention. Don’t go to the V.A. They are not your friend. All they want to do is take away your 2A right to bear arms. Back door policy courtesy of the current POTUS. Don’t get a script for anti depressants either. Same thing. You will lose your 2A rights. Thank you for your service. Be strong and keep it tight.
    Semper Fi

    1. Yep, vets think that the VA is your friend, THEY aren’t. Best case is stay away, go elsewhere.

  87. Here in Florida, it is ILLEGAL for ANY doctor to ask about gun ownership. You have the right to deny a response! Don’t answer!!! It’s the law!!!

  88. That moronic notion identifies only a small percentage of all gun owners or potential gun owners who happen to suffer from mental disorder by unfairly targeting veterans whose health records are more easily obtained than those of the general populace. One government agency is aiding another in its unlawful and immoral goals of disarming citizens who have FOUGHT to secure all constitutional rights including the Second Amendment freedom to bear arms in self defense. Shame on the administration that tramples the rights of veterans. Shame on the anti American behavior that moves people to think they can deprive citizens of due process as guaranteed by The Constitution. To do this or to abet those who will is to spit upon our Supreme Law in America and to disrespect the people that risked virtually everything to secure our freedom. Government beware of what you imagine is yours to do.

  89. Thomas Jefferson: “The two enemies of the people are criminals and government…”
    They are afraid of us Patriots and Veterans – Semper Fi

    1. @ JJ

      Which Patriots? The ones the Swore and Signed the Oath, or the Ones that simply decided to Ignored the Oath.

    2. I asked the same question when the Oath Breakers showed up in Nevada to threaten federal agents who were attempting to collect millions of dollars in federal feeding fees that a Nevada rancher had long ago agreed to pay.
      Thereby perfecting the crime of treason and a pussy president didn’t enforce federal law, thereby showing all citizens that whoever can bring enough men with guns gets their way, to hell with the law.

    3. Hmmm , Well if you NOW look at the underground maps you will find that rancher is in the middle of the land they have a PIPELINE , think that might have some small thing to do with them wanting the land ?? Or if you care to read the Documents , he wasn’t refusing to pay just wanted due process AND the amount was INCREDIBLE due to the fact is wasn’t any where near the AGREED upon amount , READ !!!

  90. This is what we fought for. My son is the fourth generation to serve and is well decorated. I’ve been struggling for forty years just to get a corrected DD214! After coming home with a limp they didn’t even look at the knee they just sent me home like it was my fault I got hurt. Hundreds of vets live hand to mouth because the VA can’t keep up with the load. They never could. They keep enough of them happy so they keep on keeping on. It’s not about the men it’s about the percentages. Remember PTSD? Remember the bad water at Pendleton? The Gillian Beret shots got me. Well there’s my scuttle butt for the day.

  91. Well, I already and I have stocked my ammo so the VA can kiss the ass they give shots in. As far as confiscation, thats about the best way can think of to die, molon labe

  92. The VA and this piss poor gov’t, should be more concerned about its treatment of veterans, than about whether or not a vet should own a gun, much less any weapon that does not launch bullets/lead downrange such as, a bottle, knife, bow and arrow, slingshot, spit, baseball bat….

    I will feel more confident, and secure, around a veteran with a gun\weapon, who has ptsd, tbi, or any injury, than I would a non veteran of any sort. Period!!

    For the VA, or any psych facility or doctor or administrator, to establish a PROFILING POLICY against veterans, is both dangerous and politically motivated. I am 100% for profiling of potential criminal and anti American elements, but veterans?

    Like everybody posting here, minus a few womb rejected pieces of human inconvenience, I am sure, that at some point, it will be tbe begeran who saves this country.

    Heed those words……

    1. Being in law enforcement for over 32 years I have seen much. There is a storm brewing and although it is not easily defined, it can be felt. Redefining the rule of law, disregarding the constitution and manipulating laws to either benefits one’s own personal gain or for political ideology only stoke the fire. Something is coming . Thanks for you post; at times I truly believe people are asleep. I hope they will wake up before it is too late.

    2. @ KWF:

      Well put. I too am in law enforcement with 33 years and counting, and the way you put that is very much how many of us feel. We can’t quite put our finger on any one aspect, but we’ve been doing our jobs long enough to sense something is very wrong at this point and time in history.

  93. We can talk and talk here on these boards till the tips of our fingers are blistered and all we are doing is spitting in the wind. Action still speaks much louder than words. Find out who the anti-guns imbeciles are around you….from your dentist to your kid’s schools to who and whatever, and target them as they are targeting you! If your schools are run by twisted liberals…become an ACTIVE member of the school counsel, and resist from within. If your dentist is a liberal….drop him/her and find one who is not. And do the same with EVERYONE in your life. If you donate to charities….find out if they believe in what you believe in, and act accordingly. Support organizations that are pro-freedom. Resist those who are not.
    Sure it takes a little effort, but since when is FREEDOM free?

  94. What will be the next reason for back door gun control. Arthritis can effect your stance or grip when shooting. Hey, eye sight is a give me. You can’t see what your shooting at. Why don’t they get a life?

    This just pure BS!

  95. What will be the next reason for back door gun control. Arthritis can effect your stance or grip when shooting. Hey, eye sight is a give me. You can’t see what your shooting at. Why don’t they get a life?

    This just pure BS!

  96. Another example of the administrations disdain for the military. While attention is shifted against our honored vets thousands of undocumented people cross the border into our country every month. How many scumbags do think have entered our country? Does anyone in their right mind think that criminals care about impotent gun laws and mental stability testing? Cant make this up.

    1. @ steve b:

      In addition, had Obama’s administration actually enforced the immigration laws and properly deported known criminals rather than going after random vets, America’s Next Top Model contestant, Mirjana Puhar, would be alive today.

      No one, not even DHS argues this point, that had Obama deported the scumbag per the laws he was sworn to uphold it would have definitely saved her life without question.

  97. @ Anti Aguila:

    While you’re at it, why not ask Chris Kyle what he thinks of the VA’s policy and its effectiveness towards protecting him?

    Oh yeah we can’t, because despite the VA’s policy they still allowed an unstable vet to kill him.

    You and anyone else that thinks this is a viable solution are idiots. The VA responded by saying they have been doing this for “multiple administrations”, so the fact that Kyle is dead already proves your ideology is flawed, does not work, and only creates hardship for veterans.

  98. Why not ask Chris kyle what he thinks about this. Oh ya we can’t cause an unstable vet killed him. I’m not perfect nobody is but some vet’s should be closely looked at before giving them a gun again. I may be wrong but that’s just the way i feel. Agree disagree that is your right.

  99. The want to be TYRANTS will not stop until

    they get just what they think they want but

    when that time comes, AND IT IS CLOSE,

    they will find their reward is the same a was the British Crown’s.

  100. Why would anyone think this is a good idea … Is there any kind of significant correlation?

    I doubt it.

    Regardless, it crosses the line.

  101. A long time ago. I went into the ARMY ! I was not old enough to buy and drink a beer !! before I went to Kill or be KILLED !!!! The country has went to CRAPP!!! That is what I think.

  102. Once a soldier ETS from active and reserve duty he is no longer subject to the rules and regulations and the UCMJ. When a person goes to the doctor they have the belief that their records are private unless they authorize the transfer to other entities. I believe this policy is just another way of disrespecting the very individuals who ensure that we have the ability to voice our opinions without fear of retribution, whereas the veterans affected by this policy are having the very rights they defended ground into the dirt. It is almost as the anti’s have found a way to have an entire section of the population classified as the “boogie man” just so they have a target to point to. I can see several bad issues coming because of this. A veteran who does need mental services for whatever reason will not seek treatment because they will be losing certain rights. A large percentage of those not seeking treatment might in fact need something as simple as therapy to get over a rough spot in their life but will end up tagged and bagged as a threat and denied the right to own a firearm. I speak from experience. I sought simple therapy during 2 divorces. It was just to have a way to vent my frustration. After 4 years since the last session it took 4 days for the approval to come through for my purchase of an unfinished receiver. Prior to the first divorce I had absolutely no problem in transferring form 4 weapons, maintaining a CWP, etc. I spent 3 yrs in the 1st Ranger Battalion and can assure you that I am less of a possible threat now than I was after active duty. My question for all the civilians (non-military background) is how would you feel if you were placed on a list of “possible crazies” and had your guaranteed Constitutional Rights trampled on just for going to see a therapist? If people value the contribution that veterans have made to society and freedom and some continue to do so, I challenge you to make your voices heard and contact your representatives and senators and let them know how you stand on this issue. Thanks for reading.

    1. This is exactly what I’ve been telling my wife for years. Marshall law is coming people .Be prepared….

    1. TwoDrinkMinimum, Did you seriously make such an inane comment?

      From your perspective, every human being on earth is, or was, a “Potential murder and assassin” at birth. Amazing. I think you need to be reclassified as OneDrinkMinimum.

    2. I was thinking more on the lines “ONE DRINK MAXIMUM”.

      Hey Two Drinks, don’t you believe in due process?
      Imagine this scenario; What if you were a female, scared of your abusive ex-husband. And then he “notifies” the local LE that you have a gun and are crazy. Do you want them to come and disarm you without any proof of such? (especially if he is mentally unfit)

    3. I find it interesting that those on the left do not appear to believe in due process anymore. Many moons ago, when I was a child, Progressives typically defending the Constitution and “the man” was seen as the oppressive state using its power against the individual.

      The baby boomers have grown up and become the statists that they feared as children. It is ironic, but true. The hippies have become jackbooted thugs and most of them don’t even know it.

    4. Which is exactly why–at the suggestion of a friend–I stopped calling them “liberals” and instead call them “leftists” now. Leftist is associated more with Marxism than with Liberalism–as it should be.

      I do not think the article was well written because there are two separate issues here that are being muddled together. “Should veterans–really everyone–be afforded due process if their gun rights are going to be taken away?” Everyone here should agree on due process, which this issue shows is being trampled on.

      Separately, “how much evidence and how many doctors are needed for a judge to declare someone unfit to own a gun?” That is a complex issue that needs to be resolved.

    5. Murderers don’t need a firearm to commit murder … in fact I’d bet you if you put murders committed with firearms on list #1 and murders committed with anything but firearms on list #2 … #2 would be a gazillion times longer.

      There’s an old story about a general and a reporter somewhere …

      My wife has a vagina … I don’t think I’d tell her she’s a potential slut.

      Now on the other hand, my first ex-wife she has a vagina too and I wouldn’t hesitate to tell her she’s a slut

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