Why Does the USDA Need Submachine Guns?


We’re hoping the Cheaper Than Dirt! community can help us understand something: Why is the USDA soliciting the “commerical [sic] acquisition of submachine guns, .40 Cal. S&W?”

Submachine guns for USDA?

That’s what the Department of Agriculture asked for in a May 7 solicitation on The website is described as “the single government point-of-entry (GPE) for Federal government procurement opportunities over $25,000. Government buyers are able to publicize their business opportunities by posting information directly to FedBizOpps via the Internet.”

USDA Firearms Solicitation Number USDAOIGWEA-5-7-14
USDA Solicitation Number USDAOIGWEA-5-7-14

This particular solicitation, Number USDAOIGWEA-5-7-14, was posted by the Department of Agriculture’s Office of the Inspector General, specifically the Procurement Branch of the IG’s office.

The Dept. of Agriculture specified the guns needing an “ambidextrous safety, semi-automatic or 2 shot burts [sic] trigger group, Tritium night sights for front and rear, rails for attachment of flashlight (front under fore grip) and scope (top rear).” Other specifications include: the stock should be “collapsible or folding,” the magazines should be “30 rd. capacity,” should have fittings for a sling, be light weight, and have an “oversized trigger guard for gloved operation.” We understand the IG offices have law-enforcement functions and IG agents can be or are armed, but 40-caliber submachine guns seem a little over the top to us.

Emails and phone calls to the procurement management branch have gone unanswered, so we’re looking for some insight about why the “cow cops” might need submachine guns.

What’s next: A SWAT team for the Consumer Product Safety Commission? Or the Department of Education? Uh, wait.

Let us hear what you think in the comment section.


The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt!'s blog, The Shooter's Log, is to provide information—not opinions—to our customers and the shooting community. We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. The information provided here does not represent the views of Cheaper Than Dirt!

Comments (320)

  1. Yes, the die hard Obama supporters in my opinion do not really care what he does and anything he does is OK including stonewalling on scandals like Fast and Furious, IRS and Benghazi, breaking the law by releasing prisoners from Guantanamo without proper notification of Congress, violating the Wars Power Act, Changing deadlines on Obamacare without Congressional Amendments which is illegal, having the Federal and Supreme Courts over rule his illegal decisions like the non recess appointment of the Labor Relations Board Members, and the list goes on and on. As long as we have Obamacare, Gay Marriage (which I am not against), increased social services participation (so people don’t have to work and we can turn our Country into a welfare state), illegal immigration (essentially for political not humanitarian reasons) and they accept his talk and lack of action, they think he is great. Personally, I hope the Republicans impeach him as soon as they take control of Congress.

  2. Thanks again Gman for your informed and well presented answers to the delirious and fantasy minded leftards that have no bearing on facts or reality. Thanks to people like you we won these elections and will continue to do so by informing the public and backing it up with facts and not propaganda.

  3. Yes in fact you did say months ago that you were a firearms dealer and how much money you were making. I find it interesting that you really believe most Mexicans in this Country are farm workers who come here to work. Farm workers only account for about 5% of Mexican workers in this country. I wonder if it ever occurred to you if these people from those other countries supposedly escaping the violence ever tried to correct their own countries problems before creating problems for us here. You really don’t assume these are all upstanding people now do you. How upstanding can they be when they send their kids off by themselves with Coyotes. I think you need to do a bit of research and think these things through a bit more. I think G Man is right about your general attitude. You are one of the most nasty people I have come in contact with on any of these blogs.

    1. Dprato,.. have you noticed how all these demotards extremists types always have the same behaviour? They scoff at facts and replace them with their own fantasy land reality that is baseless and factless. They twist a few pieces of thruth and combine then with a lie to make it an even bigger lie, then they repeat it to themselves and others until they believe it.You can not reason with them or point them towards facts or an honest opinion since everything in their mind is clouded by a delusional hysteria. When they show gay tendencies they are even worse, and most of them are just plain liars. I have come to the conclusion that the democrat state of mind, is just an organized form of mental illness or systematic indoctrination that takes advatages of already weak minded and feearful people. Is they understood what democracy really means and that we live in a Constitutional Republic, maybe that would point them in a right direction. Too bad that due to their own charasteristics that wont be possible to happen.

  4. @ Beau: May I ask why you bother to continue addressing anyone in these forums when we have repeatedly proven time and again how utterly worthless anything you spew really is? If you were to ever actually state something of fact in anything you’ve written, I think we’d be amazed.

    You just laid an incredible heap of crap on everyone regarding illegal aliens and you know that I know it. Border issues are one of my areas of expertise within my government position. With that, I can irrefutably inform the rest of the readers that you truly do make up whatever you feel like and then try to make it sound as if it came from official sources in order to fit your warped liberal agenda.

    Your statement claiming that the “VAST MAJORITY” crossing the border are not Mexican is nowhere near factual. In reality, the statistical facts are that Mexicans have always exceeded the number of OTMs, which is what we refer to as “Other Than Mexicans” in law enforcement.

    Even when we examine the OTM population specifically, it is NOT “women and kids fleeing gang violence” as you claim. It is instead teenagers that are already affiliated with gangs and infiltrating the U.S. border under the deceptive perception they are innocent children.

    The remaining OTMs as well as the Mexican “MAJORITY” have flooded in under the Obama promise for amnesty. I can’t go into much more detail, but trust when I say there are more illegals continuing to cross than the public has been made aware of, and it continues in record numbers.

    But the worst thing here is – when you speak out your ass as you do, you minimize the real horror. These OTMs aren’t even free to, as you claim – “run across the border and start a frantic search for a Border Patrol agent so they can turn themselves in and get into the ‘system’”.

    Instead most of them fall prey to a very sophisticated and organized cartel criminal enterprise where they are kidnapped and held in deplorable conditions in stash houses throughout the U.S. Crammed so tight they literally live on top of one another as they are repeatedly raped and abused for entertainment by their bored coyote captors.

    They are held like this for months on end while their parents are forced to work so they may pay monthly ransom fees in hopes the coyotes and cartels will eventually release their children, wives and elders one day.

    Many children, including girls as young as 10, are raped and killed. But if they get lucky they might get returned to the parents once they become uselessly pregnant. If they are really cute, some kids never see their families again as the cartels have found it lucrative to expand their enterprise into the child sex-trade market to perverts.

    Healthy boys fearful of losing a mother or elder held hostage, are made to constantly traffic drugs across the border for months while some arbitrary debt is supposedly being worked off to free their relatives. If they act up, lose a load, get caught, or are late returning, their debt slate gets reset and they must start earning all over again from scratch.

    This is a lucrative business, so nothing gets through the cartel gatekeepers along the border without their approval. Their approval includes a price that must be paid by every single illegal wishing to cross. If anyone attempts to freelance across on their own, the cartels ensure an example is made and they pay dearly, often with their lives.

    Each human they hold captive is actually calculated as projected revenue on the cartel books and controlled like we would a legal commodity or business asset. But rather than pay bonuses, the coyotes that work the borders are instead threatened by their cartels if they don’t bring revenue up to the projected expectations for the month or year. Such desperation or the thought of losing your head will make you do some really nasty things to increase your revenue yield from your illegal alien crop.

    So Beau, as usual, you disgust me with your cavalier Obamaite attitude. The blood and abuse of thousands of precious human lives is on Obama’s head for encouraging this influx of illegals, as well as squarely on yours for supporting his disgusting and deadly policies.

    1. Wow. Over 12 paragraphs and you basically said nothing. Thanks for the somewhat warped tutorial on Latin American issues that nobody asked for.

      When I write anything you MIGHT agree with, you simply go off on a tangent about cartels and such.

      Your class is adjourned.

  5. Beau you are a delusional farce. I was not talking or commenting to you. No one here takes any of your comments seriously. Keep yourself in your closet and be a good kid and let adults comment on things you dont know nothing about. Thanks.

  6. If as you say the skill set has changed then why are we letting large number of illegal immigrants in from of all places Mexico? Do they have scientist and engineers, etc to offer. I was under the impression most of them were either criminals. drug dealers, children, or people with little or no skills escaping the violence in their countries they didn’t have the courage or will to change. How does all the jive with Americans not having the skills set. Not sure I understand or agree with all your statements. In case you missed it most Americans do not have what you have or say you have. By the way early on in this conversation you said you sold firearms and then later on said you sell firearm components so which is it this week?

    1. Jez, your ignorance is stunning. You say “. . .why are we letting large number of illegal immigrants in from of all places Mexico?”

      1. Mexicans are NOT coming here in LARGE numbers anymore, except seasonal migration to pick your vegetables, pick your fruit or to work in meat packing houses. Check your facts.
      2. Americans DO NOT show up for these jobs. There are hundreds of thousands of these jobs. Go to California and watch ‘sign-up’ lines hiring sites for these farm workers standing in line to pick your food. You’ll rarely see an American anywhere near these places.
      3. The VAST MAJORITY of people coming to our border are from Honduras, Guatamala, and El Salvadore and it’s mostly women and kids fleeing gang violence in those countries. They run across the border and start a frantic search for a Border Patrol agent so they can turn themselves in and get into the ‘system’. They’re not being chased around on foot and captured.
      4. I never said I sold firearms. A lot of what we do is Internet based. We transfer raw materials internationally to manufacture our products, which we then export globally mostly to firearms companies, some medical companies and some instrument makers. Trying to find good Internet workers (IT people) is the most difficult thing. Outside of California, the biggest number of good IT people are located in Ukraine. That’s stupid, and yet it’s a solvable problem IF we can muster the resources necessary to retrain tens of thousands of Americans, many of whom are just sitting around complaining about Obama, waiting for the ‘Government’ to change and give them their old way of living back. It ain’t gonna happen.

      One easy way to break this logjam is to remove the monopoly on energy, especially electric companies. They FEAR a competitive open-market now, so they’re doing everything possible to prevent the rooftop solar market from exploding growth. This would create hundreds of thousands of jobs across the US and the jobs are easy to learn.

    2. And another thing, sealing the US border with a 100 ft tall razor-wire with snipers on top wouldn’t come close to solving this problem. In fact, it’s a bit deceiving.

      Have you ever been to MIA? Miami International Airport (and many other airports) lets thousands of immigrants into this country every day 24/7/365. They fly in and never go home.

      Solve that.

      In the meantime, the GOP will stubbornly resist creating a new IMMIGRATION POLICY because it’s easier to just blame Obama. Besides, the GOP can’t reach a consensus internally, they have pressure from big agriculture and meat packing (think Tyson) to do nothing, ever.

  7. Perhaps you would care to explain then why blacks and Hispanics are the two groups most adversely affected economically while Obama has been in office, why we have more welfare, food stamps receipients, and more people on the dole than ever before, why we need to grant amnesty to illegals when American Citizens need jobs and have totally removed themselves from the workplace because they cannot find them. why interest rates on savings, money market and cd’s are next to nothing, why the so called unemployment rate is actually faulty because so many American Citizens have dropped out of the job market? I await your intellectual response on those items seeing how we are doing so well that the majority of Americans as demonstrated in exit polls indicated the economy was their main concern when they voted FOR Republicans

    1. Seriously? Blacks and Hispanics have historically done worse than white America. Did you expect (or perhaps suspect) that Obama was going to substantially INCREASE their standards at the expense of white folks? Pleeeze.

      Yes, CD’s and bank rates suck right now and you can thank American banks for that embarrassment. They had their greedy hands out during the recession, but now they’re hoarding huge sums of cash. But you blame Obama because he’s letting the ‘free market’ work, while the electorate sits on their asses, not complaining to banks. Blame Obama.

      I’m making a comfortable 5-6% on my money right now, but then I’ve got large sums invested and I’ll admit those rates are typically not obtainable by many people. I blame the banks, not Obama.

      Any American who STILL does not have a job has himself/herself to blame MOSTLY. The skill set necessary for decent jobs today has changed. I know people in my own family (mostly Republicans) sitting around waiting for their OLD STUPID JOB to come back and it’s never gonna happen even if China burned down tonight. These people need to be retrained, yet blaming the Government is much easier, so that’s what they do.

      So, they blame Obama. Everything is wrong and just “The Government” is to blame and that means Obama, right? Boo Hoo!!

      You’re trying to have it both ways and things don’t work that way. The things you’re suggesting are things the PRIVATE MARKET should do, but are not doing.

      Not enough Government INTERFERENCE I guess! (you just played out)

    1. @ BF:

      You wrote, “I am so glad I am on this chain.”

      What is “this chain”? Did you mean thread or forum? You should educate yourself on proper Internet terminology so you don’t come off as such a buffoon.

      You wrote, “This is an amazing social study.”

      Not really, the pollsters have been predicting for a year that Republicans would easily slaughter this election after all of Obama’s harebrained antics. It was you libtards that chose to stay in denial.

      You asked, “By the way, how was the TURNOUT in that election?”

      “TURNOUT” was fantastic or hadn’t you heard… we Republicans stomped your asses. We are quite enjoying getting our country back on track. But thanks for asking.

      You asked, “And how’s the inventory at your local gun shop?”

      Still a little hard getting ahold of .22 ammo, but we expect that to stabilize now that the Republicans have spanked all the anti-gun politician’s asses out of office.

      As for gun inventory, now that most weapons are finally coming back in stock it has helped normalized prices which should make for a sweet Christmas gift buying season. I am quite excited by some of the lower prices I’ve seen lately and am hoping to see them fall even lower which is quite a delicious prospect. I have my eye on a lot of reasonably priced inventory as I am sure many other Americans do as well. I know many hunters already taking advantage of the lower prices, so it’s going to be a great season for all.

      You wrote, “Like I said, offers start at half off retail.”

      What’s your point when no one is selling?

      You wrote, “With Republican control, guns just got a lot CHEAPER!!”

      Yeah your right! Ain’t it grand? Times are looking good.

      Enjoy your weekend. I know I will. Tootles…

    2. About the ONLY thing Republicans can do now is sit back and begin claiming falsely that our last six years of recovery came about because of them. They have gotten good at trying to revise history since Bush who blew a huge surplus.

      But the facts are that our economy is rocking, strong and steady growth on Wall Street, in housing, in manufacturing, in our exports, in our employment rates, in our reduction of the deficits, and a huge decrease in the rise of healthcare costs. All done with an obstructionist GOP agenda for six years.

      Regardless, Republicans will NOT get this country ‘back on track’, because it’s ALREADY on track they don’t know how anyway. IF the GOP knew how to repair an economy, you’d think they’d have done it to prevent our recession. But no, they wait until Democrats clean up another GOP mess, then they try and take credit for the recovery.

      And the XL pipeline will fail because it’s 100% Canadian oil and it’s mostly going to China and the related jobs claims are utter BS. What else have they got? Nuthin.

      Just being against Obama is NOT a plan to do anything. It does effectively demonstrate racism though.

  8. Look at Kentucky. They quietly started offering their ‘KYNECT’ healthcare program to citizens and half a million residents signed up quickly. They love it. Very popular.

    Then some moron ran around telling people (CORRECTLY) that KYNECT was actually Obamacare. Thousands called in to say they no longer wanted KYNECT. But guess what? Fewer than 100 people actually dropped KYNECT.

    Proving, ONCE AGAIN, that the ACA is VERY POPULAR, but the same program called Obamacare, draws out the racists and the ignorant.
    Like you.

  9. BS! A third of the electorate didn’t even show up for this election. Republicans got NUTHIN! More gridlock on the way and you can do nothing until Hillary takes over.

    Keystone nasty pipeline, dead on arrival. Why would we risk our environment to ship Canadian oil to the Chinese? Any big jobs potential would only come AFTER a spill, like the BP disaster down here.

    Removing voter rights, the Supreme Court is busy killing those actions regularly.

    Ignoring and denying Global Warming, the rest of the World, big business and Insurance companies are NOT ignoring it and are already on-board.

    Paying women less, states are already dealing with it independent of legislature. In states where they refuse (red states) they’ll just stay depressed as their population moves to Blue states. (except maybe Texass)

    Denying healthcare for millions of Americans, will be vetoed fast.

    WTF are you celebrating a stupid low-turnout midterm for? All you stand for is BS.

    Can any of you name something GOOD for MOST Americans that could come out of this? Go ahead, give it a shot. Just being against the President is not a platform.

    And your ignorant comment about how Obama won TWICE is not only unprovable but not even realistic. The entire electorate was ‘tricked’ twice by welfare ballots? You are truly delusional.

  10. And what are your words of wisdom for all those who are paying more for less, lost their health insurance and doctor, and are not as well off as you and your narrow minded point of view. Only care for the downtrodden and the hell with everyone else????

  11. @ Beau: This wasn’t some football game you were wrong about that can be shrugged off as you pay the winners their bet money; this is your life, your credo, and your personal self you threw heavily into all your ignorant and arrogant statements, and then got utterly slaughtered in the end.

    After having your ass stomped so badly at the polls yesterday by the so-called “tea-baggers” that you despise so much, one would think you’d have the common sense that comes with such an ass kicking to hide out for a while and lick your wounds of embarrassment. But not Beau, it’s the nature of your nasty and vile liberal crudeness that prevents you from being self-aware as to the extent of the humiliation you brought upon yourself.

    You invested a lot of time and effort talking all your crap to us. It was your overt confidence in something you were completely proven to be wrong about that is precisely what makes you stand out as the ultimate failure here. And yet, you still haven’t an ounce of integrity to realize it is time for you to just simply shut up and go away.

    But no, rather than humbly accept your immense defeat like a real man does, you instead lay on more bullsh*t about how your messiah can veto anything while completely disregarding that everyone else already knew how wrong you were about being a member of your so-called “majority”.

    No amount of Monday-morning quarter backing will ever change this for you. So allow me to rub salt in your wound so the crow might taste a bit better going down. I share now one of your ignorant comments of confidence that never was to be:

    Quote from Beau, “I hate to break it to you fellas, but THANKFULLY it is YOU who are off target. You’re the minority, the few, the fringe with numbers weaker than circus lemonade. You’re not even close to winning any national elections and you’ll never take the House and Senate together because Americans won’t let you. Weak’r than kittin piss. You both are OFF TARGET according to most Americans who disagree with you. How’d you two get so far off target with your fellow Americans?”

    So while this is just a virtual forum where none of us have to contend with the other in the real world, a place where anyone can be whomever they please, or act anyway they choose outside of real society, the fact remains that in the real world you are a loser. Just because you can walk away from your computer and try to ignore our reality, you still have to live with yourself and your severely flawed philosophies that led you to make such ignorant and wrong predictions.

  12. He is not my President and certainly if he is, he hasn’t acted like it. I am not a bigot, just honest unlike the liar Obama. “You can keep your health insurance and your doctor”. Need I say more or does that sum it up for you.

    1. Guess what dufus? I kept my Doctor! I’m not on one of the ‘subsidized Obamacare plans, I’m on a ‘Cadillac’ plan and my payment helps subsidize other, less fortunate citizens healthcare. Yea, it’s income distribution, who cares? If my fellow Americans get sick, I’m glad to do my part to leave a better country.

      I lost my original Blue Cross plan which cost 1685.00 per mo
      My new Florida Blue plans is better and it costs me $1260.00 per month.

      So, I’m saving money and I kept my doctor. Beat that jackass.

  13. Not sure what country you live in but if you recall Senator Reid used the nuclear option to destroy the vote on a filibuster and therefore most votes are not 60 votes they are majority votes which the Republicans have easily.

    Second if Barack Obama is in fact an American President and not a King or Emperor as he believes he will have had his two terms if he is not impeached before they are over and we need not worry about him ever being President again. As far as Hillary Clinton, well only time will tell if she even runs.

    So like your other comments you are simply blowing hot air and no one really cares.

  14. And FYI moron, I lived in California for 26 years. And I started my weapons component business there. I’ve personal;ly fired more rounds than most of you will ever see.

    I now live part-time in Florida, land of the terminally stupid.

  15. Well said. It did take 6 years for many people to wake up and understand the direction this so called President and his goonies were taking us. I never liked the man even before he got elected and had tagged him as all talk and no action back then. It is clear he does not have the USA’s interest at heart and is doing everything he can to diminish us. However, in a Country where people value their freedom and have a history of fighting for what they think is right, Obama now knows his agenda is over and if he continues the Country will continue to fight him to the end.

  16. @ Beau, BF and all the other idiots: I just had to come back and address you degenerates now that the election is over.

    How utterly embarrassing for you to have had it so wrong, or as you put it “OFF TARGET”. You talked so much crap throughout these forums about how your Obama-luv’n-ass was the majority and the November elections would continue to prove it again.

    What’s your excuse now with an historic landslide victory for us Republicans? Not only did we overwhelmingly take back the Senate with more seats than needed, we added more Republican seats in the House at epic proportions not seen since WWII. And then we even added surprise icing to the cake by taking governorships away from several Democrat states.

    But the cherry on top was taking your messiah’s own state of Illinois (BWAHAHAHAHA).

    There is no doubt now as to whether this was a National mandate against Obama – because the percentile margins of win were all so wide in every state and race that there isn’t even a question or controversy as to who won.

    The landside was so large that every network called it for the Republicans so early in the evening that dinner dessert hadn’t even been served… and that includes the West Coast.

    You were in the minority all along; you were just too stupid to realize it yet. We tried to tell you.

    So the only question left now is… how do you like your crow served? I’ll have some FedEx to you overnight if you like.

    We already knew what a joke you were, but now you can add total loser and ignoramus to your resume.

    See ya in 2016 at Hilary’s defeat. Enjoy your fear! Toodles for now…

    1. Control of Congress doesn’t grant absolute power and in many cases, it will shift the divide, not eliminate it. The Senate’s procedural rules that require 60 votes for most legislation, as well as the presence of Obama in the White House, will limit what Republicans can do.

      Obama can veto any bill, and it would take two-thirds of the members in both chambers to override him. If the president maintains support among congressional Democrats, Republicans will have to negotiate with him rather than stampede over him.

      The veto is the key: Senate Republican leadership will undoubtedly face pressure from Ted Cruz and his minions to pursue reconciliation and perhaps even eliminate the filibuster, steps that would allow Senate Republicans to easily pass legislation with a simple majority. But even if they get their way, they can’t change the fact that President Obama wields the veto pen and without assembling a two-thirds majority in both chambers, they won’t be able to override his vetoes.

      Unless Republicans magically decide they want to move forward with issues like comprehensive immigration reform or real tax reform (as opposed to tax cuts for the wealthy disguised as reform), this is obviously a recipe for gridlock, but if the choice is between repealing Obamacare and accepting gridlock, the choice is clear. Republicans will no doubt whine about it, and they’ll complain about President Obama ignoring their “mandate” from voters, but let’s not forget: Every time President Obama has been on the ballot nationally, he’s won. And far more Americans voted in 2008 and 2012 than 2010 and 2014.

      IF Obama could run again (and we all know he cannot) he would win again.

      Hillary Clinton eats adversity for breakfast. Ken Starr spent 52 million and 9 years trying to unseat them and he lost every time. You fools never learn.

    2. You could not have said it better G-man. I have to add that it was not only a mandate against Obama but against democrats as a whole. People got tired of being “politically correct ” and here are the results. If you ask me I know that they tricked the last presidential elections. Specially all those welfare ballots that were added at the last minute. I am celebrating big time the Republican win. A breeze of fresh air over the leftards fantasy world. Nice.

    3. Well, if you’re unhappy with the direction Obama is taking us, then perhaps he should INCREASE unemployment and LOWER the stock market. If you don’t like what you’re getting now, maybe we should REDUCE US Manufacturing and US exports. Hey! I know, we could take the housing and construction industry and crush them once more. That’d be taking this country in a DIFFERENT direction all right. Finally, we could RAISE the DEFICIT (as a % of GDP) and stop bringing it down so fast. Yea! Great idea!

      Hey, wait a minute. . .isn’t this what George Bush and the GOP did that got us INTO this mess in the first place?

  17. Is that your standard of evidence when believing Obama is a Musilm and is going to use FEMA and the UN to take over North Texas? LOL. Show me some evidence.

    The social study continues.

    1. Hey BF, Don’t worry, no one wants Texass anyway.

      Q: How do you castrate a Texan?
      A: Kick his sister in the mouth

  18. That’s funny Joe. Post a pdf of your IP address evidence to prove it. A screenshot, anything. Also would be interested in your methods. Cause see, you’re either full of it, or embarrassingly mistaken. Either way, it re-enlightens me to the level of your paranoia and intelligence. The social study continues…

    Enjoy your fear. Buying guns at 75% off when ya’ll are ready.

  19. JOE:
    Evidence of your ignorance and bigotry:
    A: You use the word “gayish”
    B: Many syntax errors, and commas don’t have spaces before them.
    C: You proved my point with your price quote. And the numbers keep going down everywhere.
    D: I can get a CCW in Orange County CA.

    Your prejudice of CA is clouding your understanding of the truth. It is not “much (allow me to add *more*) difficult to get a gun”. Same federal background checks and waiting periods. Same prices. Was in Charlotte NC a few weeks ago, and saw a DD AR for half price. Ammo prices there are the same as here. Just sayin’. We don’t have high cap clips, need a bullet button, and can’t do .50 cal (but Barrett made the .410, which performs better). That’s about the only difference. If you’re actually shooting for SPORT, those features shouldn’t matter.

    I have no need to convince you. I’ll just buy your guns and gold at a discount when your fear exasperates (anyone seen gold lately?? Down to about $1216 from a high of $1850ish).

    Here is S&W’s quarterly earnings report for August:

    Year over year sales down over 30%
    Year over year profit down over 40%

    G-Man, I actually found your response to be thoughtful, calm, and correct. And I should stop antagonizing. I believe in guns too, I believe I am correct on the market direction, but to each their own, and the market will play itself out. Apologize for being a bit of a rabble rouser, but I truly DID find my participation in this discussion to be enlightening to the general discussion of guns, and the type of people who TYPICALLY gravitate towards them, who is in a rush to buy them right now, and where they will go in the future.

    Be safe out there.

    Signing off (and still offering at 25% of retail),

    1. I have found that most of the times the ones that are looking at every little grammatical error are gay people , so again you prove my point. Everyone here is simply not putting any attentionto your sick mind and G-man already explained clearly to you how this works. You are not getting no one’s gun ,because it does not work like you have in your “gayish” California fantasy mind. I think you and Beau are the same person posting with 2 different names and that you want to sound like you are several guys (trolling). I showed you that prices are different everywhere and that I can even get a lower price than you. i was in California for a year and you can get CCW by county , not in the whole state which is ridiculous ,beside the other restrictions you already mention and they keep being more ridicuous every day. Even in places in California that you can “get” a CCW, you have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that your life is in danger and you need to carry a gun. Again ridiculous like all your ramblings. G-man made a very few good points about you and you apologized to him , but you got mad at me because I use the word “gayish”. You seriously have issues. And yes, the high cap mag, bullet button and cant do .50 ,do matter even for sport. You are sick. You have a sickness that is called being a “democrat”.You are so sick that you want to compare restrictive gun grabbing and anti 2nd ammendmend California to the rest of the states that honor the Constitution. You should chek in this same log how “gayish” California wants now to ban lead bullets . now tell me that is not moronic to try to do that. And tell me that it is the norm in all other states to do this stupid and bigoted decisions. You can keep being ill and dreaming whatever you like in your own small universe but the rest of the readers here just take you by what you really are.

    2. I left some typos and grammar mistakes so you can count them and have some fun. I know gayish in California could not live their lives without the autocorrect fucntion.LOL.

    3. Another interesting social study of a confused, typo ridden rambling. Proving once again that fear, bigotry, and ignorance run your life. I’m intrigued.

      Post the IP evidence that you have that proves Beau and I are the same person. Why WOULDN’T you?? Unless you are lying or just plain dumb. Not sure which of the prior win.

    4. BF/Beau,.. here is a secret ,.everyone stopped listening to your ramblings in this blog long ago. You are hysterical and stupid. And no one is selling guns to you at any rate. You have to be a real moron to come here and said to everyone that our fears make you rich, and that you use your money for the democrat agenda and still pretend that you have a bussiness and people will sell to you. Enjoy your hysteria and your personality disorder. Neither I or anyone else here will keep fueling your delirium. Whatever method I use to check you out is for my own satisfaction. Enough said.

    5. For the record, I am a manufacturer of firearms parts. I don’t need anyone to sell me anything, as we buy raw materials. Now go grab your puny underparts and squirm in your childish buffoonery. You earned it.

      And I don’t know BF, but I’m sure he’s OK regardless of his sexual orientation, which has to be more manly than your panty wearin’ ass.

    6. You podunk moron. . .what a buffoon. It’s 2014 for crying out loud.

      Grow up, go to school. Your educational level is an embarrassment to all Americans. For anyone else interested in America’s race to the bottom educationally go here:–_and_the_right-wing_lies_behind_them

      And remember, most of you aren’t rich enough to be Republicans, yet you vote against your own self interest. Like morons.

  20. @ G-Man

    Right on the money. Market signals are often sent passively or unintentionally. But as you said with milk, consumers just deal with commodity (guns and ammo) fluctuations as they encounter them.

  21. This has become an interesting social study.

    I am lowering my bids on all of your second hand guns. 25% of retail (that’s 75% OFF retail, for those of you who are clearly barely literate). Has anyone seen how overstocked their local gun stores are these days? I’m already seeing new AR 5.56s and Barrett .410s going for about 30-40% off what they retail for NEW… 5.56 ammo in 1000 round packs going for $300.

    And I live in CA.

    Enjoy your fear.

    1. BF,… I dont think you understand the market or the gun buyers according to your comment. Before the gun grabbers intention to enforce a second ban last year, gun prices were already going up. Actually 5 years ago you could get ammo and guns for even lower than that 40% that you are claiming. Its a question of demand and offer. When everybody was scare about “buy before the law” last year, prices where overinflated by 300% so what you are actually looking at now are normal prices. Still , like gasoline, prices on guns and ammo did not went lower than it was a few years back. Everyone that was about to get a gun stocked on everything last year. And many more got into reloading ,which still saves you like up to 30% depending caliber over what you can get at your local store. It have nothing to do with fear. People enjoy their sport, like some people enjoy their football,baseball ,etc. it is a hobby as any other that also give you the capacity to bring food to your table and defend yourself and your family if necessary. In California , with their gayish and stupid, ignorant filled laws , it is much difficult to get a gun, have a CCW ,etc, so it is normal that they have to lower their prices because most people dont want to go thru all the bureocracy to enjoy their sport. Try Florida , Texas or Arizona and you will see that prices there are higher. Many people are taking advantage of online sales and buying cross state, so your gun dealer in California surely is selling online, if their stupid laws even allow them. The thing is why should I buy a gun online from California with reduced capacity when I can get a high capacity gun anywhere else?

    2. @ Bf: You keep repeating odd rhetoric that doesn’t make sense to normal folk. Given that you are the only one that can decrypt your own ramblings, then wouldn’t it stand to reason no one else really gets you, and therefore your musings are pointless to the rest of us?

      Have you ever considered doing something productive that might actually help others, rather than insist on acting like a nasty fly that just keeps annoying everyone else trying to enjoy their picnic? I do not see how anyone derives enjoyment and satisfaction in life from being such a pathetic antagonist like you.

      The reality is – we obviously have a better grasp of how this works than you. No one is selling their guns to you at a loss, we hang on to them, enjoy them; and should we desire something else, we may trade them straight across with other gun enthusiasts. For every gun one loses interest in, there is always a potential trader seeking out the same gun as a new interest. So it always works out.

      You see, we understand that regardless of the reasons behind what causes prices to rise or fall, the fact remains that prices on everything in the market do fluctuate and always have. Whether the reasons are real or artificial does not matter given that the result is a reality that affects everyone regardless.

      For example: Milk has recently gone sky-high yet most people don’t really know why – they just know that it is. It’s a fact of life that is simply dealt with. So if rumors abound that milk will be going even higher and concerned mothers stock up and freeze a few extra gallons, I suppose we can trust that you will be there to chide them for their prudent behavior and goad them with sarcastic offers to buy it back at a discount later.

      Our entire economy from interest rates to the stock market is all based similarly on guesswork and speculation. But for some reason that same method for which our entire economy is dependent all of a sudden goes out the window and deemed ridiculous by you when the same logic is applied towards the investment in guns.

      And as I’ve already stated, sometimes the change is caused by legitimate reasons and other times by artificial rumors. But regardless of the cause, the actual change that results is very real to everyone. So just in the same way precious metals and other commodities rise and fall, guns and ammo are no different. Sometimes we get it right and sometimes we don’t. So please, just get over yourself already.

  22. Ladies and gentlemen of the forum, I am somewhat excited to announce for your entertainment pleasure only… BEAU.

    Yes folks, in all his ignorant bliss and simpleton followership he has in fact unwittingly offered himself up as a prime case example to substantiate every word of my claims above.

    Just feast your eyes on his blather of sheer ignorance and hatred. Oh the sub-intellect is almost too unbearable to believe. But there it is for you all to see, in all its glory… forever archived on the Internet.

    Ladies and gentleman you won’t see this level of stupidity just anywhere, nope this is an exceptional example of a functioning Cro-Magnon specimen operating at basic brainstem level only. Too stupefied to even be aware of his own clown-like existence.

    Please folks try to refrain from too much humoristic indulgence that would normally be elicited from witnessing such inane acts of self-deprecation; because it is in fact quite a sad state of affairs that Beau must endure. We should actually pity him.

    Well that’s about all folks. Thank you… and drive home safely this evening.

    1. Hey Beau, what does that even mean? Last I checked I wasn’t addressing you. And even if I was, you are so out of touch with reality that your comments don’t come close to a coherent match with the flow of content here.

      It’s like you’ve answered “3” when the question had nothing at all to do with math. No matter how hard you try, you can’t progress by forcing a square peg into a round hole (I can break that down for you if you like).

      You are so self-absorbed and delusional that you actually perceive I’ve been addressing you. You’re an insult to humanity and truly not worthy of my time… other than to run a BI to ensure you’re not a real danger to anyone.

      And while you think you’re appropriately responding to others, your attempts are childlike and reminiscent of that stupid kid everyone laughed at back in grade school. You know – the one that didn’t know how to form a good comeback after being horrendously slammed by someone far more intellectual.

      You are terribly out of your league here and still haven’t got a clue.

      I can tell you are the type that thinks they are polished and accomplished but in reality completely clueless that those around you laugh inside and just tolerate your nonsense while desperately trying to find a way to escape your company. Sadly you have no idea this is going on and persist with acquaintances that have no real intent of investing anything worthwhile into a relationship with you.

      Though you won’t admit it, you know deep inside there is truth to how I’ve described you. So you have two options, continue being the miserable asshole you are, or actually try to pull yourself up and out of the cesspool you’ve spent years digging for yourself.

      Look, it’s a bitter angry and unhealthy lifestyle you’ve chosen for yourself and it will only lead to more health issues in the future (you know what I mean).

      If you could truly see yourself from someone else’s eyes you would have stopped long ago. Please trust me on this.

    2. So when you say: “Ladies and gentlemen of the forum, I am somewhat excited to announce for your entertainment pleasure only… BEAU.”
      you weren’t addressing me? Right.

      Your mental gears are slipping. Perhaps the dreaded Alzheimer has come to your noggin for a permanent stay.

      You are not trusted and this next election will prove you teabaggers have done nothing but demonstrate your ignorance.

    3. @ Beau: Ah took you a few days to think of a come-back. Well you are correct; I was not addressing you. Probably the only thing you’ve been right about in any post thus far.

      I don’t know what the rest of your jibber-jabber was about, probably an angry attempt at an insult, but in the first portion you’d be correct in that I was only addressing “Ladies and Gentlemen”, which of course, by any definition, excludes you.

      See unlike you, I can be fair and admit when someone gets an answer right no matter how unpleasant you are otherwise. So thanks for taking the time to clarify my statement.

      And remember, we’ve already discussed you carrying all that stress and anger will worsen your condition. So please try through all your misery to at least find some happiness in this day. Take care now Beau.

    4. Dont worry G-man. SInce his first post we all appreciated his outright lies, impersonation , and stupidity all along. He can not even digest the well mannered and intelligent response you gave him without calling names ,insulting and just bringing No facts at all. Much the same with all the leftards that you can find in the internet. Thanks for your well though post that reflects and explains exactly the leftard mentallity. I know … I should not call them leftards, but them when you can easily see that is a real institutionalized mental illness then you can agree with me factually. Although I recognize it is an insult for the people who have a physical brain problem to be compared with the leftists. To those I ask for forgiveness.

  23. @ Walker Evans: These are excellent points you’ve brought up. So exceptional that I wish to categorically elaborate on a few:

    1) Instantiating the difference between our system as a republic versus a democracy is quite important. Understanding the distinction between the two is paramount before one may begin to comprehend the intended function of our government. Once a person becomes educated on the differences they are usually shocked at how warped their sense of politics were and must rethink everything they thought they knew.

    2a) You state you are not a member of the Tea Party. Well no one really is. There is no card-carrying membership per se, and it is not a political party that one may join. It is a movement with a collection of varying ideals that people either choose to support or reject and may do so to varying degrees, yet still be respected.

    The beauty of the Tea Party school of thought is similar to the Constitution which establishes each sovereign state as having their own separate right to laws, meaning – it is acceptable for Tea Party ideology to vary from region-to-region based on the needs within each specific region. So you see, a person shows their extreme ignorance and prejudice when they attempt to label and lump people into the Tea Party all as one big group. So to some extent we are all members of the Tea Party movement, but to varying degrees.

    But then of course you have the elitist liberals from the top that fear this movement and effectively prey upon their under-educated constituency by pumping them with repugnant anti-Tea Party talking points that are then repeated over and over in forums such as this by people of extremely low intellect.

    None of their twaddle is even close to the truth, but they’re too stupid to know better. First they are trained like an unbroken puppy to call anyone that doesn’t agree with them a “tea-bagger”. From there all “tea-baggers” must be labelled as racists, which of course means they must hate Obama. And naturally since they hate Obama they must be anti-government.

    It is truly unbelievable how sick and whipped the mind of a liberal really is. They are scrawny little followers that require coddling in all things social. They crave to be managed until the day they die. It’s outright dangerous really. I submit that liberals be placed at the top of the list should they ever decide to actually start enforcing the existing mental illness gun-control laws.

    But I digress, the simple reality is the Tea Party is nothing more than a movement to remind the Federal Government of their original duties as set forth by the Constitution, which grants it very specific, but limited powers. The primary goal of the Tea Party is to educate the less educated on the real government responsibilities as set forth by law, and to have redress through legal protests.

    The desired outcomes would be a smaller federal government through reduced special interest expenditures with the ultimate goal of reducing the federal budget deficit. The subsequent reduced spending would allow the people to realize and enjoy much needed tax relief, thus ensuring economic prosperity. But to liberals I suppose that is somehow an extremist, racist, and kooky thought.

    2b) Obama’s anti-gun position is a well-known fact brought to light through many published books, University of Chicago Law faculty, and hundreds of unbiased media outlets willing to print the truth. There is a direct quote from Obama by the esteemed Dr. John R. Lott, Ph.D., which resulted from a conversation between Obama and himself in public:

    ‘When I was first introduced to Obama, he said: “Oh, you’re the gun guy.” ‘I responded: “Yes, I guess so.” “I don’t believe that people should be able to own guns,” Obama replied. I then suggested that it might be fun to have lunch and talk about that statement sometime. He simply grimaced and turned away, ending the conversation. That was the way numerous interactions with Obama went.’

    So you see, Obama’s true stance on gun-control couldn’t be made any clearer than this. But alas, there are simple idiots that believe everything a politician says to get elected. Never mind Obama’s documented lies, some by his own mouth, that have since been uncovered throughout this administration; and yet liberals still worship and forgive him. Thereafter they convince themselves as to which lies they want to believe or ignore, but never actually challenge.

    3) You’ve made an excellent point that the Obama administration does not find it racist to require minorities to show ID when it comes to their purchase of alcohol and cigarettes, but it is suddenly prejudiced when requiring ID to establish citizenship for voting.

    The reason Holder must maintain this as a racist-civil rights issue is so that it legally remains within his purview of control. Voting laws are clearly a matter for each state to decide upon, so the only way Obama can keep his lap-dog in this fight is to have Holder fabricate it into a federal civil rights issue. Otherwise the liberal elements in Federal Government would have no legal say and would forfeit all those illegal alien votes.

    1. Wrong, wrong, racist and wrong again. You’re dribbling out both ends g-man.

      No to scrawny and little – I’m 6’4″ and 220 lbs.

      There is NO tea bagger organization or structure because they can’t agree on anything but more guns and hating to pay the very taxes most tea baggers live on. Remember, RED STATES are welfare states (with a couple of exceptions).

      Wanting guns everywhere and hating taxes and our twice elected President is hardly a national agenda or platform to run on.

      G-man gets a government check to live on. He hates that same government.

      I do NOT get a government check every month and I should pay more taxes and I just want an efficient, smart government that isn’t looking to start a war for no reason and isn’t a tool for big corporations to manipulate for profit..

      Once we finish fixing all the economic damage that Bush, Cheney and the neocons, teabaggers and republicans did to this country in their lopsided ‘patriotism’ drive, then you can MAYBE get another right-wing moron to screw it all up again. Until then, we’ll just keep fixing huge chunks of our economy to restore the country financially.

  24. Well so much for your belief in the integrity of the Federal Government. I notice it pressed your button when you thought they were violating YOUR rights. Hypocrisy is a great thing, to be blind until your OX gets gored. A lesson to be learned here Beau.

    1. So it’s OK for g-man to abuse the system illegally, but it’s wrong when he works, or worked for the federal government, as the purported g-man claims to have done? Or does his crime automatically transfer his personal guilt to the Federal Government? How handy would that be?! The Fed made me do it! That’s it. . .the Fed made him run a BI on me. Is that your story? Really? That’s weaker’n kittin piss.

      Me thinketh tho hath played out thy weak hand.
      Thus endeth the trick.

      You’re both dismissed.

  25. Nice that you see it as a you and us thing. That is one of many negatives Obama has created, you and us. I think if you want to deal with reality you look at the polls over the last few months. People albeit slowly are starting to realize that YOU did elect and incompetent, lying, anti American as President.
    The polls also show that Democrats could be on the verge of the worst shellacking they have had in years. So I wouldn’t crow to much about electing a person who may destroy his own party. Like you said just my opinion.

  26. Well, at least you still believe in Democracy. There is hope. I think you are right that nothing will happen before November. I don’t think you are right about how the mid terms will shake out. But that’s okay, that’s the beauty of democracy. We all have a voice, and WE decide where we go. In fact, WE decided to elect Obama, not once but twice. Hopefully once Obama’s presidency is over, we can lose the hyperbole and talk about real stuff, not blue hatted UN invasion troops setting up concentration camps in North Texas.

    1. As a veteran who has seen the carnage of war, a CCL holder, a person who is familiar with our government (22 years military active and 20 civilian employee), and an avid reader of the Constitutions and the Framers correspondence, I have to say a couple of things:

      1) The United States is NOT a democracy! It is a democratic republic, which is entirely different.
      2) I am not a member of the TEA party, but I do believe this country is headed in the wrong direction. The single promise Obama made that he has tried his absolute best to keep is the one to “fundamentally change America”. For example, he keeps saying he supports the Second Amendment but has publicly stated that he doesn’t believe anyone should be allowed to own a gun.
      3) He hand picked people to surround him in positions of power who have no respect for the Rule of Law including, ironically, Eric Holder. As AG he ordered the termination an investigation into voter intimidation by the Black Panthers, and is now threatening to take action against states requiring photo IDs to vote because THAT, in his opinion, is designed to disenfranchise minority voters … the same folks who have no problem with providing an ID to buy alcohol.

      There is definitely hypocrisy and hyperbole going on now, but the majority of it is coming from black racists, which does include Eric Holder and, since he won’t rein in his AG, appears to in the POTUS.

    2. Please provide proof the Potus said that. Thats BS and you know it.
      Stop watching FAUX newz. They lie for sport.

    3. Elections no longer matter. What do we get if we “win” an election? More politicians! Both parties conspire against us to fleece our paychecks and usurp our rights. Both parties CONTINUALLY sell us down the river on personal freedoms, liberty and especially gun rights.We have never ( thankfully) lived in a democracy in the US. We once had a Representative Republic -but that is gone. VOTING, only gets us more of the same.

  27. Not so fast:

    There are 150 million registered voters out of a potential 207,643,594. The number of 100 million firearm owners is a number the FBI has been using since before Obama was elected. With another 65 million plus firearms sold that 100 million number is probably a low estimate. So I am not sure where you got your numbers but the bottom line will be that there will be on control legislation passed in Congress before or after November 2014 and there will be a whole lot fewer Democrats in office after November 2014. So lets see who is going to be right when the people speak. Me or You

  28. Thanks BF. The only reason I sleep well at night is because I know you and the majority of Americans agree with me. As a veteran, it pains me to see those who have never experienced the bloody carnage and aftermath of war or have travelled to heavily armed countries are the same ones calling for guns everywhere here in the US, while they simultaneously lament the ‘passing’ of the 1960’s era lifestyle. Beaver Cleavers dad didn’t open carry OR concealed carry. Almost nobody did back then. This macho gun crap sickens me – especially from a bunch of people who’ve never served in combat. They’re weak and afraid, which makes them gullible to the mantra of fear of government, and countless conspiracy theories about this and that. The deranged right wants us to believe our ‘forefathers were all totin’ guns, all day, everywhere, everyday. It’s BS and they know it.

    The old west cities ALL had gun control zones where you were required to turn in your guns. One of the most notorious efforts to defying a lawful order to hand over their weapons occurred at the infamous OK Corral. It ended badly for the lawbreakers who refused to turn over their guns in Tombstone, they were dead in 30 seconds.

    I’d like to see some common sense return to America, but it appears this minority and the NRA will prevent that, sadly. It’s too bad, because I strongly believe we can keep our guns AND protect ourselves from senseless gun violence here in the US if common sense took hold.

    Gun controls are NOT NEW and they’re not all bad. I will keep my guns, and yes, I have a concealed carry permit because, after all, it’s Florida, and the stupid runs deep here. I also realize the world is a more dangerous place today, but MOST of the hysteria surrounding gun control and mass shootings has been instigated by Wayne LaPierre and his ‘NRA’, which represents the gun industry (of which I am a part), for profits sake only.

    I’ll repeat that; The NRA and the gun industry is promoting fear, rebellion and outright lawlessness to promote PROFITS for manufacturers like me. It’s wrong and the NRA does not speak for me. I only wish the extremists on the other side could see this for what it is. The two cops executed in Las Vegas last week by a pair of teabaggers happened to be accompanied by another person with a concealed carry pistol. They failed to either shoot the teabaggers, or protect anyone. So much for the senseless argument that more guns make us more safe. There have been 74 school shootings since Newtown. We’re better than that.

    1. Aw! My feelings are hurt. NOT!
      I know the truth hurts. And you TEA baggers need to realize that MOST of America hates you and all you stand for. You are UNAmerican.

      If you’ll stop nibbling on the bat guano stuck on the ceiling of your outhouse, your condition may clear up, in time.

      In the meantime, I’ll enjoy the FAT profits I make off your fear of your fellow Americans. Go ahead, buy another gun, I can, and will use those profits to work against turds like you.

      Think about it. . .You pay me to work against your interests. Hell, I’m doing the same thing the Republican party does – stickin’ it to the very people who pay me. Sweet.

    2. It is good to see someone that sees through the FB mentality that so many people have these days. Anyone that has been around the block, fact checks, actually knows politics (and how both sides work) should know that what you say is true. But, sad to say many believe only what they want to believe and facts and history mean nothing. Thanks.

    3. @ Gary: Don’t concern yourself with Beau. If you knew what I knew you’d laugh at what a waste of your time he really is. I ran a BI on him a while back and he is a harmless and ineffectual little twit with no real power beyond his keyboard.

    4. You did NO SUCH THING! The only thing you’ve run is perhaps a finger up your own backside.

      And why are you spying on me? Don’t you believe in the Constitution? Were you always a lawbreaker, working for the Federal Government?

      Do tell. . .

  29. Man, for someone who claims to fear and dislike the Federal Government so much, you sure like to quote its laws a lot… Which is what the Constitution is, the foundation for all Federal Law that you so despise. Do you fly the flag while trashing the United States Gov’t too? There are plenty of people protecting the constitution with their vote and their pocket book. Not trolling the internet defending the mentally ill’s right to bear arms “which shall not be infringed.” lol

    Like I said, bids on resales begin at half of retail when you weirdos realize that you are paranoid and spent all of your money on guns and need food. Probably around January 25th 2017.

    Enjoy your fear!

    1. LOL. And dprato, you know there’s 313 million people in the country, right?? Even if you are counting voting adults alone, it’s 244. Which stretches your “hundred million is half” comment, which saying there’s “a hundred million” right wing gun nuts was a stretch to begin with. You must watch Fox News. Of the 60 million who own guns, many like Beau and myself will disagree with your Wyatt Earp outlook on the world.

      I’ll buy ammo too, when y’all need cash. Half of retail. Enjoy your fear!

      Good OK Corral reference, btw Beau.

  30. Well I guess we will see come November elections and just how successful your majority anti gunners group is. Don’t count on anything going your way any time soon. For your information, when they take polls they usually use samples of a 1000 or so. When 65 million people buy firearms that does not mean only 65 million people feel that way. There are well over 100 million firearm owners in this country most of whom are voting age. That is roughly 50% of the adult population in this Country. So good try and lets see who is right in the long term.

  31. LOL. No, I am not Beau. But I am not surprised you would think that with your level of paranoia. And btw, you mention how gun nuts like yourself are the majority by saying “over 60 million people have bought guns since Obama took office,” do you know how many people live in the U.S.? Because that is about 20% of the population.

    I’ll start making bids at half of retail. But not at Cheaper Than Dirt. They’re idiots for fanning the fears of people like yourself.

    Enjoy your fear!

  32. The question put forward for discussion , “DOES FDA NEED SUBACHINE GUNS” ; Where the hell did it go, or rather not go?
    The supporters play debate and obfuscate much as if they will be recipients of if not USDA some other part of government arming.
    I am not as articulate as most commentators; my personal history is mine, and I say no they do not need those type of weapons, nor the hit squads that will use them.
    I believe the issue presented should be “Does the populace of United States have a “Need” for such weapons and tactics.
    There is no government or police force in US that has been outgunned , and that the most dangerous forcesbupon Personal freedoms are they who are at present armed by public payrolls.
    From false flag and internal security incited terrorist acts to a time ,right now, when cops kill more americans than our military loses in foreign combat theaters, 28 active, and where on a daily occurrance we read of police willfully discharging weapons or physicly abusing those they deem enemy combatants.
    There is no real threat by any but random individuals , and mad cows are no threats because they can barely stand, that cannot be handled with normal civilian available weaponry, none
    We have gone from an Administrative bureaucracy into a Militarily inspired Police State, that now is the State.
    Oh they will get the weapons and much more militarized, as to laws protecting the Agency’s from any repercussions for abuse now find vast acceptance by the male and he/ she females both inside and outside the war time mentality of todays government.
    Violent crimes fall % points every year since 1990, and the incarceration rates for non violent goes up through the roof.
    They who think the fought to preserve The constitutional ideas of Liberty and Freedoms need to get out of their patriotic condos and read real history not the ego bosting bull shit spoon fed by those now o path to militRize every aspect of American experience.who

  33. Dprato you beat me to the punch. Beau has no idea that under this particular administration, the very service he espouses is precisely what WILL strip him of his right to bear arms. He apparently has no clue that as we speak, every veteran on file is currently the first on the list by this administration as a target to lose their gun rights.

    Beau is obviously too far out there to realize how lost he is. He is simply out of touch with the reality that surrounds his fantasy world. Beau speaks as if he has the upper hand when he is really just angry because his god was not powerful enough to get more anti-gun legislation passed no matter how hard he tried. Now that is reality.

    So I rather dedicate this post towards the edification of other impressionable readers that are still learning and forming their opinions. It is my hope to appeal to their better sense of judgment in the wake of the ignorance Beau and his copycats spew. There is a reason bigger than any of us that prevents Obama from succeeding at diminishing our rights…

    “Shall not be infringed” is a simple concept and put in place to solidify all citizenry their inherent right to keep a tyrannical government in check. However, people like Beau would have you believe this is absurd, outdated, and meant for older times; that there is no reason not to trust our modern government today.

    The reality is – the only thing keeping this tyrannical government in check is our right to bear arms. I submit that the principal behind the Second Amendment is actually in use now. That’s right, I said it… this government is an out of control tyrant, and we can be proud that the only thing stopping their ultimate totalitarianism is our guns and the will to stand up and use them as demonstrated at the Bundy Ranch; a reality that scares the crap out of Beau.

    This government fears its armed citizens and well it should. Because when the government is no longer for and by the people as this one, then it has become its own entity to be reckoned with until it can be brought back under control and given back to the people.

    Our Forefathers knew then, as they knew for the future, that no governing body would be completely free of corruption to maintain a healthy consensus towards total freedom. Hence the words “SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED” had to be the only way to ensure their intent. It was designed so the Second Amendment could withstand any subjection to interpretation by the immature political whims of a pop-culture government full of political correctness that is here today and gone tomorrow. The Second Amendment has and will always stand the test of time… and thank God for that.

    In closing I will say that the pain is immeasurable while I weep at such tragedy that befalls my fellow officers and their families, but I am fully aware this is the sacrifice all of us that are sworn to protect the Constitution must endure. We are casualties in a war to defend the Constitution no matter the price. I think it is sad that people like Beau have lost sight of such honor.

    1. I laughed when I read “this government is an out of control tyrant, and we can be proud that the only thing stopping their ultimate totalitarianism is our guns and the will to stand up and use them as demonstrated at the Bundy Ranch; a reality that scares the crap out of Beau.”

      WTF are you smokin? I do NOT fear a bunch of pussy welfare cattle rancher supporters on the Bundy ranch playing soldier. For the record I can assure you that Obama IS NOT feeling your peashooter domination dream. I’d like to see the MOS (Military Occupational Specialty) of each and every one of those militia dorks who is currently parading around Nevada like a downloadable Call of Duty character. If the feds wanted to bust that shit up they’d do it with a single gunship pass in 20-30 seconds and leave a bunch of dead teabaggers splattered in southern Nevada. Your guns only mean death to your fellow American civilians, who are being killed senselessly everyday.

      As BF said so well: Enjoy your fear.

    2. @ Beau. You’re as about as immature as they come. I think it’s time now for you to step away from daddy’s PC and leave the important dialogue to the grownups. No accomplished individual with any real power speaks as vile as you do. Usually a person acts this way to compensate for shortcomings in other areas. Only a child or a person disappointed in their own failures dwells in fantasies about what could have been. The rest of us adults are perfectly grounded in the knowledge that no matter how painful it is for you to accept, the feds did in fact back down at the Bundy Ranch. So no matter how you try to re-write that tidbit of history, it will forever go down as a win for the citizens. Now scoot off to bed and leave the real problems to those of us that still hold positions to handle situations such as this. Go on now…

  34. In fact, the reckless and misleading posting of articles like these, that scare people like you into buying more guns, is making me less of a fan of Shooter’s Log and Cheaper Than Dirt. But on the bright side, when your guns AREN’T taken away, and you need to sell some of the ridiculous amounts you bought in fear (at the same time everyone else does), I will swoop in and buy them on the cheap.

    Oh yeah, I forgot about the 4th gun that isn’t built yet. 5.56 stripped lower that I am waiting to get parts on until the right wing NRA fervor dies down.

    Enjoy your fear!!

  35. Dear Beau, you did not fight for my right to do anything. The Founding Fathers fought for all my Constitutional Rights. I really never saw the conflict in Vietnam as a threat to my liberties in this Country. Since we lost, we are all still here, so while your service is appreciated lets not get puffy with the cliches’. Next lets see the supposed data you have to back up your claims. The only poll you need to see is that over 65 million people have purchased firearms since Obama became President and his last effort at gun control got stopped cold in the Senate and would have never made it through the House. You are hardly the expert on what the American people think on this topic. Furthermore, your rants verge on the delusional and you sound like an egomaniac who has anointed himself as the keeper of the truth. I don’t recall condoning the killing of anyone but I do recall saying that I will defend myself and my family against anyone who attempts to break into my house. I am a law abiding citizen without any criminal record and the only people that could be entering my home can’t be doing it legally. I have Constitutional Rights to Freedom of Speech, the Right to Bear Arms, The Right to Privacy and the Right to the Pursuit of Happiness. If you don’t like that its tough. You will just have to suck it up.

  36. I personally do not carry open as I do feel it can have a tendency to make people uncomfortable. However, I find your attitude thoroughly annoying and your rants near delusional to assume as many anti 2nd Amendment people do that the majority of us are like that. I am curious why I don’t hear folks like you rail against people who kill people because they are drunk, or with knives or bats, or the illegal immigrants who come to this country and wind up as gang bangers and kill people, sell drugs which kill people etc. etc. You should be the last person to be pontificating because your extremism is just as bad as the far left or right. Give it a rest and disappear, you have abused your 1st Amendment Rights here long enough and if that bothers you don’t criticize others for exercising their 2nd Amendment Rights. You are like a broken record that people eventually tune out.

    1. I have no doubt after his last post; Beau is not mentally well. I truly believe he could connect the stamps I licked to pay my bills this morning to a water shortage in Africa. I think it’s time to take away his tinfoil hat and find him a safe rubber room until his meds kick back in.

    2. I would agree. Extremism at either end of the spectrum in not good and like most extremists Beau over generalizes and doesn’t realize just how many good folks own firearms and obey the law. In psychology there is a term “projection” which means a person ascribes to others traits they themselves
      possess. Beau needs to look in the mirror.

    3. You two buffoons couldn’t silence me if you tried. The reason my comments cause you so much pain is that there’s truth in what I say and the MAJORITY of the people in this country believe we need to ADD common sense to gun ownership. As opposed to deliberately arming the criminally insane, the deranged, and folks that are too mentally ill to reason properly. Others are simply filled with hate for our elected and appointed government officials they likely generated with help from other deranged gun owners like you two morons.

      Get a life. Shooting cops in the head should have generated a teensy-tine bit of sympathy from you two, but NO, you’re simply gonna double-down on the stupid.

      The MAJORITY rules this country, not the minority. As much as that disturbs you, I enjoy it. And OUR Constitution, which some of you parade around like a personal manifesto supports the MAJORITY of Americans, not you two misguided fools.

      dprato, if you’re NOT hearing about people railing against drunks, gangs and drug runners, you need to turn of the FOX news and watch something else. Did you know that TWO (2) studies have shown that FOX viewers are LESS informed about current events than those who watch NO news at all? It’s true. That means FOX viewers are largely MIS-informed, like you and your badly misinformed sidekick, the alleged gman.

      And again, I am a multi gun owner who believes in gun ownership for normal, mentally healthy people. What you two seem to propose is similar to giving everyone a commercial pilots license. Not everyone is qualified to fly commercially, or at all for that matter.

      But I will always remember that I fought in Vietnam for YOUR right to disagree with me.

  37. So here we go. Open carry foolishness all over texASS and now two cops executed in what’s being called the beginning of the ‘revolution’.

    Two gun-totin’ Bundy Ranch, I-HATE-MY-GOVERNMENT types who said the cops were ‘oppressors’.

    (CNN) — A Las Vegas couple who gunned down two police officers and a civilian before killing themselves apparently looked at law enforcement as oppressors, a sheriff’s department official said Monday.

    Among the clues: a “Don’t Tread on Me” flag and a Nazi swastika the couple placed on one of the police officers they ambushed Sunday at a pizza restaurant. They pinned onto the other officer’s body a note saying something to the effect of “this is the beginning of the revolution,” Second Assistant Sheriff Kevin McMahill told reporters.

    “We don’t necessarily believe that they are white supremacists or associated with the Nazi movement. We believe that they equate government and law enforcement … with Nazis,” McMahill said. “In other words, they believe that law enforcement is the oppressor.”

    Police said Monday that Jerad Miller shot Officer Igor Soldo in the back of the head, then shot fellow Officer Alyn Beck in the neck before Miller’s wife, Amanda, pulled a gun from her purse and also fired on Beck.

    Some of you people need to be ashamed of your recent posts and excessive hatred. I AM A SECOND AMENDMENT SUPPORTER!

    However, I believe we need a return to civility and reason and it can start HERE!

    Those who disagree need to know the rest of us Americans are opposed to guns in our face all day, despite your ‘fears’ and suspicions about your fellow Americans. Open carry in cities is over the line and exposes your desperation for attention and a shootout with somebody. Man-up and conceal your carry or stay home.

  38. @ Beau. Well truth be told there is nothing meritorious about anything you’ve said, therefore there’s nothing to prevail against and hence the lack of worthy discussion.

  39. Just a suggestion. but your message would be far more effective if you corrected your spelling and had someone check the grammar. It definitely distracts from your message when people have to guess what it is you really mean and what your major point is. After reading what you had to say I was not entirely certain whether I would agree or disagree. I am not saying this to be rude or diminish your feelings about what you are trying to express. I simply think it would be more effective if you took the time to get those two things right.

  40. Will some one please get all veterans their set of red white and blue angels wings and for those who did not serve in military just buy lots of chapstick.
    Being a veteran is not proof of sanity nor saintliness and last I looked the Constitution had mo provisions within it that seperated Rights by additional grants of privelege to one or a group of persons, as being above any non Admiralrty office or civilian identity.
    Why were there no specific mentions in writings wheteby only those judged mentally stable by an unelected body have RIGHT’s?.
    Societal mores are not necessarily those of the mass( ask ypur religious bodies) of people, but more likely to be decided necessary so as to keep themselves in power.
    Such is the case today as to why every indivifual Departments are now forming a Military/Policing “Bodies” anf all not because of any real inctease in protective or arresting needs, Policing, at preseny but forba massive projection pf force upon both tjr physical bodies and minds of the genrral populace.
    Thrre isbno longer enough confidenceb in the present infrastructure and. they employed within it as to theit being anything other than usurpers of public will, anf in fact they now believe that “Their Will” even in their minority as % of populace is the only will permissable..
    Our military institutions now spend over 30% of its moneys in research and means og controlling their own populace , more than is spent upon other nations where thry can just kill a will safevfrom any form of repercusdions.
    Police are now killing american populaces almost as fast 400 thidnyearndead ee do not count wounded or their fogs cats andvparrots , as they do in any nation we are making war upon.
    These who are in all those agencys that look after aCorporate Interest webare now toldbwe can trust with full auto weapons because thebwork for government?.
    WHO TH glyin F… needs mental rvaluatoons those who vhronicly lie to feather theit own egotistical asd orbthose so fn ignorant they lnow nothing but what their betters tell thrm.upon andbnowthey in Government

  41. Because you can’t prevail in a discussion on the merits of what I said alone. My America is chock full of racists, bigots, KKK types, John Birch believers and other nefarious Timothy McVeigh types who want to fight our government with guns. It’s wrong. Don’t try to parse it either. It’s real and we both know it.

    I’m from the deep south, I am 61 years old, I am a Vietnam veteran and I own a business that is a huge supplier to the gun industry. I have benefited greatly from the huge growth in gun sales since Barack Obama was elected. Don’t let anyone tell you Obama hasn’t been good for business. Gun profits are up, Way up.

    Anyone who says these newfound profits are not driving this market is a liar. The gun industry, of which I am admittedly a part, is benefiting from hysteria, huge amounts of unwarranted fear, and outright bullsh|t from the NRA, who does not speak for me as a gun owner or a manufacturer.

    We need to have a fresh dialog about guns in this country and the mentally ill people who keep shooting the rest of us, as we vehemently defend their rights to go buy weapons that they intend to use against us, their neighbors and co-workers.

    Most of the people on this board are simply itching to shoot it out with someone. And I will bet you that MOST of the people showing up in restaurants, and coffee houses in Texas and elsewhere with AR-15 and AK-47’s along with leg strapped pistols are NOT veterans and have never seen the effects of war, let alone one inside their own country.

    Here’s the question NOT being discussed:
    Are we so consumed with defending the rights of the insane to own guns, that we’re willing to risk our own lives as a result of inaction?

    1. The problem with bringing mental health into background checks is what conditions do you consider probating ownership and which do you allow and that opens up a large opportunity for control. Did you know that cross dressers have a mental health diagnosis of gender dysphobia? Do veterans with PTSD from watching their best friend blow-up deserve the right to never own again? What about HIPAA? Brining mental health into the game is not an easy one. Don’t get me wrong, as a health care provider I feel it is long needed but it is not black and white and people would like it to be.

    2. All I know is when the 2nd Amendment was written the people had flintlocks and the government had cannons, now the people got weapons a “little” better than flintlocks and the government got Apache Helicopters. hmmm

  42. But wait a minute. That doesn’t play into the senseless, but very popular right-wing theory that Obama, the kenyan, the muslim, the terrorist, is starting to build his secret personal army to take over America and remove all the privately held guns. All so he can banish the 1950’s Beaver Cleaver ideology and indoctrinate us into his sharia law world where we are all helpless with our heads wrapped.

    1. @Beau. At what point do you begin to realize the intellectual value of conversation has risen well above your sustainable abilities to compete, and thereafter has effectively rendered any future comments you make as completely irrelevant?

      I would say quit while you’re ahead, but you never were, so just quit.

  43. @ Bud. These weapons are not for biologists with the USDA’s Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS). It has already been formally established this particular weapons solicitation was specifically submitted by and for the USDA’s Office of Inspector General to be used by their agents.

    Regardless, I feel it important that your statements be unequivocally dispelled before this public forum in order to prevent the further spread of such disinformation.

    Post 9/11 operations by APHIS were not conducted at Ground Zero, but rather the biologists were called in to study problems at a site known as FKL (Fresh Kills Landfill). Their duties were to prevent birds from jeopardizing forensic recovery efforts conducted on loads of rubble that had been relocated to the FKL. Seagulls and other bird species were removing human remains and other evidence from the sorting areas and disrupting those efforts.

    For approximately 10 months biologist employed non-lethal noise and visual deterrents to stave off the scavenging birds for the workers. Methods used were limited to pistol-launched pyrotechnics, mylar flags, and other dead birds hung to ward off invading flocks. Due to the mass number of workers in the area lethal means were only used a dozen times and even then they only ever used shotguns and pellets delivered from air rifles. The rats and house mice were found not to be an issue other than a nuisance to workers near their shelters, and so as a precaution biologist only used traps. Even then, less than 25 rats were ever caught during the entire 10 month operation.

    As for your implication that “recently these same USDA biologists wore body armor to shoot birds off airports in two war theaters in Afganistan [sic] and Iraq”; There is nothing recent about this and they never shot at anything. Aside from the ludicrous idea that anyone would be authorized to discharge a firearm around military airfields and aircraft, I offer a more accurate account of the APHIS presence in this theater of operation:

    A regular part of the USDA APHIS biologist’s job is to conduct site surveys and provide advice to reduce bird populations and therefore prevent bird strike events in and around U.S. airports. Starting back in 2009 the U.S. Air Force utilized APHIS biologists at Bagram AFB and Balad AFB in the Middle-East. And while they did wear ballistic vests like everyone else in the area, these biologists were never used for eradication. Their purpose there was to conduct a 12 month wildlife hazard assessment and advise military personnel on how to reduce the wildlife presence in and around the airfields in order to reduce strikes.

    Additional proof that weapons would not have been employed is that consequently in areas such as the Middle-East, with potential hostiles, noise techniques could also alert the enemy just prior to aircraft movement. As an alternative, one of the most effective silent means recommended is the use of hand-held lasers which are quite an effective non-lethal means for dispersing wildlife at airports.

    It is true that APHIS was used extensively for wildlife recovery efforts in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. However, their primary responsibility was to provide veterinary services, wildlife assessment, quarantine, rescue, food, water and shelter for animals. During those duties there was a combined federal, state, and local APHIS effort credited with assisting in the transportation of over 200 stranded people. However, at no time were they issued or carried submachine guns in the performance of those duties.

    I hope this information helps set the record straight for other readers.

  44. G-Man…You sir, after reading your posts, are one of the most articulate
    persons I’ve come across! A great pleasure reading your intelligent responses and logical insights into the current situation in this country.
    Good to know that there are still some people out there in the masses that have a real brain! Thanks for your input here.

    1. @ gunrocker. Likewise sir, it is refreshing to hear from others such as yourself that are capable of comprehending the dangers as they unfold in our once great country.

      Given my position in government, people are often shocked that I speak out as I do. But I will never allow anyone, no matter how high their position or authority, to silence me.

      It is my duty and responsibility to speak out. Anything less is simply un-American.

  45. The USDA since 911 attacks is designated as an emergency response agency. Their APHIS Wildlife Services branch is called upon to deal with human-wildlife conflicts world wide. For 911 their wildlife biologists were called out to shoot rats and seagulls that were eating human remains from the Twin Towers rubble piles stored on the river front. During the Hurricane katrina search and rescues in New Orleans the same USDA biologists were rescuing people and recovering bodies under threat of gun fire. And recently these same USDA biologists wore body armor to shoot birds off airports in two war theaters in Afganistan and Iraq. These are not your average Federal workers and put themselves at great risk in their civil service. So this procurement is not an absolutely senseless or insidious action. My only criticizm of UsDA is they should come clean and provide a tranparent explaination of why they want to spend tax dollars on these items.

  46. Xfed: No issues with the body-armor solicitation, at least as far as I’m concerned. I included the link solely as a related USDA request. best, Woody

  47. All I will say is, we had body armor, custom fitted no less, years ago as do all prudent law enforcement agencies.

    And we had very nice ink pens and take home cars.

  48. @ Beau: Why are you addressing me? You came late to this party and don’t even know what you are talking about. Contrary to your statement there were several posts in this forum that took issue with anyone that questioned the USDA OIG’s solicitation for submachine guns; so big buzzer for you – with no parting gift.

    And what are you… a tween, or maybe 15 tops? Because only an adolescent jerk uses the term “hater” when speaking to adults. Grow up dude. You just keep repeating the same old crap about Obama and his great “majority” in every argument you start here. I don’t care about what Obama once was, I care about what Obama is now. And right now Obama currently holds the lowest approval ratings since Nixon.

    It’s no wonder the “majority” dislikes him so much now: he’s had to apologize for lying about his healthcare policies, had more scandals than the past 5 president combined, so weak that Putin laughs in his face while egging-on more pathetic sanctions. This president has done more damage to race relations, spawned class envy, and created a virtual police state. Aside from being a grave embarrassment, his weak foreign policy has emboldened our enemies and placed us in more danger than ever before. So enough with your rhetoric already!

    And for the record, the last “insurrection / revolution / teabagger rally” as you call it, did actually last for days. It was held out on a Nevada ranch 2 months ago. And last I checked, they sent the Feds a run’n without having to fire a single shot. So much for the strength of your so called “majority” backing you.

    Look, you’ve done nothing but antagonize forum members here with sarcasm and insults. You are the one that is angry. It’s like you have all this pent up fear because deep down inside you know you can’t control the free thinkers that express their views here. So you lash out at them by crowing about this false “majority” you think you have backing you.

    But in reality you’re not quite sure where everyone will eventually stand or how it will all turn out… and thus you explode with anxiety. I get ya man, and so we’re here to help. But you have to stop treating us so rudely. It’s going to be okay. You just need to calm down and try treating us like you would want to be treated. Peace out dude.

  49. I believe you were referring to the comments made by Beau in regards to his deciding who is and who is not an American. If so, you are totally correct about the arrogance that he would set himself up as the person who makes those decisions and grants himself the right of proclaiming himself as an authority. People like that are clearly delusional and narcissistic and that is why I stopped responding to him a couple of days ago. Its also why Obama has been declining in the polls because he is detached from the job he is suppose to be doing and actually believes he is the only person in the country whose vision everyone must follow. Hitler, Stalin and others of like kind also felt that way and, well, we know what happen to them. So do yourself a favor and don’t respond to Beau or reference his comments as you only encourage him to go on one of his rants which makes him look like the fool he is.

  50. With my own ears I heard mant an expert on what being an american is since the day I heard Truman smack down Gen Douglas Mc Arthur.
    That day I began to read american history, and yes I have written for publication upon historical events, and I am damned tired of those experts trying to tell Americans what they are and
    get pissed when specificlythey try to place others into non-american in an attempt to silence.
    Began learning by talking to men who lived what
    What was not written about in text books, and by reading only those books, papers and personal correspondence by men who had been a part of history as it happened, not as it might of or should of been nut what it was.
    Demystified hisstory before I was born and thinking hard begore forming opinions on truths of history.
    Family records back mid 1600’s and have had relatives in 20’s Socialist movements and Klu kluk Klans or Knights of White Carmelia that
    lived in Deep South and Michigan, and some early American Nazi Party supporters.
    And you know what , I still will never claim I am an expert upon what Being an American is.
    Spent my most liveable and enjoyable years among the working hearys of this land and my modt miserable years with managers and some of its political ass holes as well; But that timme and my experiences were my exprriences and differed from millions of others.
    I do know what one isn’t; One who claims he can speak because he is an expert and derides those who see life in America from a different
    perspective than as a horse with its backside
    farting into wind and with blinders on.
    I have friends names upon a black scar because somebaholes demanded what an american must be, and I have my bones buried in this land since mid 1600’s.
    All I am is an ordinary american, that lives an honest and honorable life. Not a good american but most assuredly not s bad american, just an
    ordinary man.
    I have been militia in the past and damn it I will not bsck down from sayingvthere wee man instances in past yearswhere a true american militia should of brrn calledvto arms but there were too many whoo were calling themselves ameticans that would of squashed and did their fellow amercans.
    No one I know of in any militia group for last 20 years was chompingat taking up arms in this nation butvthere were a hell of a lotvof statebmilitia and State security forces and National Guardsmen andvretired military that eere and still are wantingvtovgetvsometrigger tome on those they point out as not being american .

  51. I think replying to some folks on this thread/forum/article is a lost cause. I feel their rage and hatred of everything that does not fall into their mindset and requirements. Discussion stopped a few “pages” back.

    1. Stop egging people on. You and dprato are the two doing it. Enough.

      I won’t reply to this thread any further.

    2. So who has checked you out and made you the Chief Depouty in Charge of the list? You seem to very ready and eager to strap it on and stop anyone who doesnot think like you do, the mirror image of those who you are telling this to! You need to give it a rest and think about how it will be when we are on the opposite sides of the firefight!

  52. The bottom line is the USDA does not need machine guns. There are plenty more law enforcement authorities in virtually every location in the US that can handle their request(s).

  53. As I’ve stated in previous posts it is incumbent upon me not to reveal specifics of my career. I can say I was deeply involved in policy, the formation and transitions to DHS, the restructuring of the entire intelligence community across all agencies, and the post 9/11 restructuring and tasking that affected every aspect of federal law enforcement, counter-terrorism, and special multi-agency task forces.

    That said, please trust me when I say there are several commenters here that have attempted to come off as authoritative, but should not be believed. My experience and position lends certain expertise which allows me to assess their comments and I can assure you they are not in a position to speak on this particular topic.

    The final word on the matter is simply this: The Office of Inspector General for any department is not, nor have they ever been, a branch of law enforcement as purported by self-proclaimed authorities in this forum.

    The OIG remains the internal investigative agency for internal affairs of their respective departments. They are routinely required to request the services of regular law enforcement agencies such as the FBI, DEA, and U.S. Marshals to conduct arrests resulting from their investigations that may lead outside of their own department personnel under examination.

    However, after 9/11 these regular law enforcement agencies became curtailed with obvious matters of greater importance. And thus it was felt necessary to add a chapter to the Homeland Security Act which in-turn amended the Inspector General Act of 1978 that certain OIG agents MAY be granted LIMITED arrest powers and to carry firearms under LIMITED CIRCUMSTANCES but only when they could prove that no regular law enforcement was available first. This in no way makes them a police force or regular law enforcement officers.

    A good analogy for comparison would be that just because all officers in the U.S. Military are granted the authority to carry a weapon and to effect the apprehension and custody of troops and civilians under his command or area of operation, does not make the Officer’s Core a law enforcement agency any more than an Office of Inspector General.

    The Homeland Security Act is complex beyond the scope of conversation here, but it suffices for me to say that there were heavy checks and balances written into the law. It was never intended to make OIG a regular arm of law enforcement, but rather to temporarily relieve agencies such as the FBI, DEA, ATF, and U.S. Marshal Service along with other real (regular) law enforcement agencies while they were refocusing efforts after 9/11.

    The act first requires each OIG must justify a need for arrest authority and then be authorized specifically by the Attorney General, which at this time is Eric Holder (need I say more). Thereafter, each time the OIG thinks arrest authority should be used it is first required to pass a series of tests; the most important being that no other regular law enforcement agency is available to conduct the arrest for OIG first.

    The Act also requires OIGs to self-report to the Attorney General and gives him the ability to rescind this temporary arrest authority for any reason. It also mandates regular inspections be conducted by alternate IG offices of each other to prevent overreach and abuse of this limited authority.

    The bottom line is that arrest powers within any Office of Inspector General was meant to be the exception, but apparently has become the unintended rule. The Americans questioning OIGs acquisition of submachine guns is prudent and very much warranted. Anyone in this forum attempting to say otherwise is simply ignorant to the laws and is just trying to sound important. I am an authority.

    1. Nobody here has a problem with ‘questioning’ this purchase of guns by any federal agency. But that’s NOT what’s going down here. This board is full of people who are itching for a firefight with anyone in any federal agency, because Barack Obama won the Presidents office twice. Or maybe because they feel empathy for a welfare rancher in Nevada. Whatever.

      A good number of the haters here, read their posts, are so ate-up with the dumbass, they can’t accept their minority position election-wise, so they’re mad and working overtime to spread half-truths, bullshit and other gun-totin nonsense, it’s ridiculous.

      As a veteran, and a gun owner, and a fair, open-minded person, I find these folks disturbing and I think some of them are so mentally unbalanced that the thought of some of them itching for a fire-fight with the feds on American soil is both hysterical and scary.

      I’ll keep my guns to defend my lawful votes. And some of you keep yours because you don’t like the result of the last two elections.

      I’m an authority on what’s American, and what’s not American. Many of these posters are NOT American.
      All this fear-based BS about shooting it out with our US Government, would not end well for these haters since they’d have to outgun not only our military, but all other Americans who think like me. And we ARE the majority that won the last two elections. This type of insurrection / revolution / teabagger rally would last minutes, not days.

    2. @Beau – I’m a veteran, gun owner and fair/open minded person. I happen to side with the 49% of the country that doesn’t agree with the current political slant. That being said, the minute that you claim to be an authority on ‘what is American’ tells me you’re a wanna-be Joe McCarthy of the left. That and the use of the term ‘teabaggers’ tells me all I need to know about your opinions and really calls into question your claims of being a veteran or gun owner. It also blows to hell out of any claim about being fair minded. You might want to look up the definition of ‘irony’ and re-read your post after you’ve stopped drinking the kool-aid.

  54. You are aware of course that the Federal Marshalls are considered our National Police Force and perhaps should be caring for these violations of Federal Law. Additionally, you also know that we have the FBI, DEA, ATF and
    Secret Service that also handle criminal violation of Federal Laws. Do we really need separate law enforcement for every single agency in the US Government including SS, IRS, Dept of Educ, etc etc? Is Obama not quoted as saying he would like to have a civilian army equal in armaments to our military and also would like to do what Australia did and forcibly confiscate firearms from the citizens of this country? If you think that is nonsense look it up.

  55. Lets take a look at the other side of that. First it is really unclear if Bundy paid his grazing fees or not. Second, there was no report of the Militia people drawing down on anyone nor have you heard of any charges to that effect. What you did hear was that Federal Law Enforcement people tasered one son and knocked down one of the pregnant daughters. I saw the video of the dogs being used to intimidate unarmed people, the tasers being pointed at people and some very aggressive Federal Agents.

    So please explain why the US Govt. spent 3 million to collect an alleged 1 million which included paying the wrangler for that cattle collection almost one million? How is it this same Government can’t deploy all these various agency law enforcement personnel to secure our borders and save this country 100 billion a year that we spend on illegals many of whom are outright criminals. I think if there is a yahoo around here it is probably you for not looking at the situation to see if it even makes sense.
    Obama just signed an Executive order against the recommendation of the State of New Mexico creating a 500 thousand acre national monument which they told him would make it difficult to track illegals coming through that State. I think you have your priorities mixed up and should be focused on a President who does everything in his power to destroy this country and favor illegals over citizens who, like Bundy, contribute to this nation by raising cattle for food.

  56. I would think that the USDA does not want to be out gunned or under manned the next time have to go out and serve papers on some yahoo who does not want to pay there grazzing and water bill. If someone calls in their armed friends on me and draws down on me, I at least want to win the on comming fire fight.

    1. So that’s your dream – a firefight with Federal agents. And you winning. . .
      So the truth comes out. Do we have another Timothy McVeigh on this board somewhere? Sounds like we may have several. . or maybe just in the making.

      This anti-government talk is starting to look like an anti-America thing. You folks lost a couple of big elections that’s all.

      Try to take some consolation in the fact that you’ll have another chance to win an election in 2024, when Hillary’s done her 8 years.

      Smart Americans effect change at the ballot box, not at the end of a gun.

  57. Perhaps even more surprising than USDA’s submachine-gun-requesting LE operation is this tidbit:

    NOAA — the folks who forecast the weather, monitor the atmosphere and keep tabs on the oceans and waterways — has its own law enforcement division. It has a budget of $65 million and consists of 191 employees, including 96 special agents and 28 enforcement officers who carry weapons.

  58. Here’s what a USDA spokesman said in response to a query about this matter: “USDA spokeswoman Courtney Rowe says the guns are needed by the more than 100 agents employed by the law-enforcement division of the department’s Office of the Inspector General. They’ve carried machine guns for 20 years, she notes. USDA OIG officers “are placed in very dangerous law enforcement situations,” another USDA official told POLITICO. “They make arrests, they serve subpoenas and they engage in undercover operations.”

  59. Is there more than one dprado on this thread? Maybe it is just me but it looks like there is a dprado talking to a dprado. It’s so confusing.

  60. Well I think you have it a bit backwards. When you consider that Obama holds the record as a President for gun sales at over 65 million in his 6 years in office the only poll on that score that counts is that 65 million people have told him what they think of his 2nd Amendment assault. Furthermore, 1.3 million people in Ct and NY have refused to register their semi auto so called assault rifles and that ought to tell you that people are not afraid but will defend their rights in this country, period. As far as the bit about the right being the ones to take the handouts, I think you have that backwards as that is how Obama gets his votes by giving it away to the dregs in this country who vote for him. Don’t confuse fear with anger and I can assure you that if this government led by the dictator Obama thinks he will get away with destroying this great nation or its people he better think twice because it ain’t gonna happen. The people will speak in November and that will be the start of us taking our country back.

    1. Google this:
      Red states are welfare states

      There you will see proof, with VERY FEW exceptions, that MOST red (republican) states suck more money out of the federal government than democratic states. Every teabagger I’ve met is getting at least one check from the Fed every month. I’m not saying it’s undeserved, but dollars are dollars and it’s all called spending.

  61. Well don’t lose faith because there are millions of us who are getting ready to speak at the ballot box in November. We will take our country back and we will not allow the left to destroy it or destroy us. You can rest assured we certainly will not go quietly and will fight to defend our families and our Constitution.

  62. Another great post. You kicked xfeds butt and now beau. Both are arrogant pseudo intellectuals who are all sizzle and no steak. Nice to see other folks call them out and put them in their place. Not sure how or why they have gotten this far off target.

    1. You’d think a couple of self-claimed intellectuals, could figure out that MORE Americans disagree with a retired fed and prato, or McCain or Romney would be president now. But no, now they’re wondering how ‘we’ got ‘off target’?

      I hate to break it to you fellas, but THANKFULLY it is YOU who are off target. You’re the minority, the few, the fringe with numbers weaker than circus lemonade. You’re not even close to winning any national elections and you’ll never take the House and Senate together because Americans won’t let you. Weak’r than kittin piss.

      So now the people waving the Constitution, want to ignore the Constitution, or parts of it, that allowed Obama to easily win, TWICE!

      You both are OFF TARGET according to most Americans who disagree with you. How’d you two get so far off target with your fellow Americans?

  63. Thanks, its nice to know there are a good many folks out there that feel as I do. Have a great day.

  64. BE AFRAID!! So you’ll buy more guns. And the right can take more of the low income and government assistance most of you enjoy.

    Enjoy your fear!

  65. You guys are simply hilarious that you still think Obama or his administration is the problem. No one man or group is to blame for the slow decay of our government.

    IMO it is a process that started after Ike left the Whitehouse. He warned us in his farewell speech that there were groups in the corporate and defense complex that have ideas of how to manipulate our nation.

    The fact that anyone in this nation still thinks we have a political system that has any hope of representing the average citizen, when it takes 100s of millions to billions to run a presidential campaign, is just stupid beyond reason. Super Pacs and legal decisions classifying corporations as people have only added to this problem.

    One of the primary reasons our nation was prospering under Ike’s leadership was that the top tax bracket was 90%. The super-rich paid their share. Corporations were not given a tax free card and paid competitive tax rates. Our government was well funded and spent money on large infrastructure projects and R&D.

    We are no longer a democracy and we are a republic. This republic, at the top leadership positions, regardless of political affiliation, is run by people that are only interested in their own wealth and prosperity. The average federal worker is not to blame and likely too complacent to notice or care. Political parties exist only to create the perception of choice.

    To have a democracy, the population must be educated and well informed. The majority of people in this nation are anything but. We have TV that constantly programs and misinforms. We have education budgets that are dwindling every year.

    When this process finally implodes, it will have nothing to do with race, creed or religion and everything to do with power. Revolt, revolution, rebellion, terrorism, who knows what it will be called when it happens. Historically speaking, most every nation has one at some point in time. Likely it will not be in anyone’s lifetime that is responding to this blog.

    1. Bingo! Thomas, you nailed it. The forces that manipulate Americans are largely corporate, well financed and Americans are more misinformed and uneducated. It’s gonna get worse and people will blame the government somehow. Most Americans couldn’t find Afghanistan on a world map, or even France for that matter.

      While my income places me in the top 1-2% of wage earners worldwide, I am deeply worried that the divide between the rich and the poor and the shrinking middle-class is growing and it’s dangerous to us all. Lookup “Vulture Chart” for a graphic representation of this dangerous and growing income gap.

      I spend my days trying to find ways to enable people and make them conscious of where they fit in this world and why it’s so important to help the less fortunate WORK their way up. Just giving money away does nothing, I’ve tried it. Earn it to learn it.

      Meanwhile, we pay big corporate CEO’s more when they do well and we demand nothing back when they lose millions. That ain’t big government, that’s big business and the bigger it is, the worse it looks to many. The military industrial complex in the US needs to be dialed way back and re-calibrated for todays’ threats, not yesterdays threats. The US spends more on our military than all other countries COMBINED. That eats up a full 20% of our annual budget. That’s WRONG. Anybody attempting to say this publicly gets slapped with a ‘you’re weak’ label.

    2. What hors**t!!
      Unions steal money from their diminishing cadre of workers to line the pockets of Union bosses and fund more federal programs that do not work. Union PACS and direct contributions are equal or greater than Corporate PACS.
      Why do you think the free market and friendly business climate in Texas has created over half of new jobs in the USA since 2008? Why do Unions and this Administration oppose charter schools or the Keystone pipeline? Why the false information spin on global warming–oops, I mean “climate change” or fracking, which does not pollute drinking water?
      Politics and more Politics. Granted, some corporate CEOs are overpaid, but why does this promote envy when these guys are mostly smart and have worked their tail off for years? Hey, let’s go after professional athletes and movie stars who make even MORE money and have the IQ of a carrot.
      Left it’s will never face the truth, look at the old Soviet Union and Western Europe, and admit capitalism is still the best thing going.

    3. OK, let’s disassemble your lame, rambling nonsensical response one piece at a time.

      1. How do private unions fund federal programs? That’s BS. And no one I know is in a union anyway. If you haven’t heard, unions are declining and have been for two decades.
      2. Union PACS are NOT bigger contributors than the 2 filthy Koch brothers.
      3. Texas has loosened environmental restrictions so much that polluters love it. Don’t believe me, go to Galveston and look at the waterline. Try not to cry. Then remember a Texas company called West Fertilizer who stored large quantities of anhydrous ammonia and ammonium nitrate, in the middle of a small town. The company failed to tell the Department of Homeland Security that it was storing 270 tons of ammonium nitrate (the same chemical that Tim McVeigh used to bomb the Oklahoma city federal building in 1995, which left 168 people dead) as required by law. Texas prides itself on the lack of rules for businesses. Texas is the only state that doesn’t require companies to have workers compensation insurance. Houston is one of the few cities that have no zoning laws to create buffers between schools, homes and toxic chemical manufacturers. Texas doesn’t have a state fire code and prohibits small counties from having local codes allowing fire marshals to inspect and prohibit the storage of highly flammable and explosive chemicals near homes and schools. According to the New York Times, some Texas counties even cite the lack of local fire codes as a reason for companies to move there.

      Texas lawmakers have also recently sought to further weaken the state environmental agency that oversaw the West plant and reduced its budget by $305 million. Even after the explosion, Texas Governor Rick Perry claimed that more government oversight and more safeguards aren’t needed.

      So what happened right after the explosion? Texas was begging for FEDERAL disaster dollars. Buffoons, criminals and bull sh|tters inhabit Tex-ass.

      4. Charter schools take money from public schools and teach religious jibberish like Genesis. That’s why they suck.
      See also:

      5. The Keystone pipeline would carry dirty foreign (Canada) oil through the heartland of America, directly over the largest aquifer in the US, only to be loaded onto ships and sent overseas. The Keystone oil is not US property, and the Canadians want to sell it where they can get more money, like China. How does that help us? It doesn’t and it’s also another huge excuse to prevent renewable energy from growing. Ever hear of a solar spill?

      6. Fracking DOES cause water pollution and earthquakes. There is proof everywhere and it’s FAR more believable than all the conspiracy BS I see posted here.

      7. CEOs at Fortune 500 companies made on average $12 million each in 2011. They’re now getting paid 380-times more than their average worker. That’s a slight increase since 2010 – and a massive increase since 1980 – when, before Reaganomics, CEOs were paid only 42-times more than their average worker.

      On top of that – CEO pay increased nearly 14% in 2011 – compared to a meager 2.8% increase in worker pay that same year. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer – creating the largest wealth inequality gap in America since right before the Stock Market crash of 1929. And rather than doing something about it – multi-millionaire Congressman Paul Ryan and the Republicans want to make wealth inequality even worse with a $3 trillion tax cut for the nation’s Romney-rich. We can’t afford to do that. Instead, we need to roll back the Reagan tax cuts – and make the Romney-super rich pay their fair share in taxes again.

      And athletes rarely get involved in politics, whereas CEO often do to gain a tax or environmental advantage.

      Your feeble arguments are too easy to dismember. Got anything else?

  66. Well, I went to school for 24 years, have 20 plus years of government service, am a Fellow of the American College of Surgeons, a retired Navy combat veteran from Vietnam with 100% disability,and specifically maintain that the federal government is corrupt, ineffective, way too huge, and is now bent on controlling it’s citizens from cradle to grave. Perhaps my vantage point of 73 years of age is an advantage in this evaluation. Incidentally, I knew both Harry Truman and Jack Kennedy, both of whom would be “tea party” proponents today. If you love central government overreach, emigrate to Russia.

    1. @ Beau: There is a vast difference between mooching “FEDERAL dollars” and having rightfully earned them. Just goes to show no matter how much you pay for an education, you can’t buy yourself common sense. And so you have been backed into a corner and reduced to the least common denominator with nothing left but pathetic attempts at rudeness and insults. I must say you are disappointingly unimpressive. Please go away.

  67. I think the response you got from AZArchangel55 reflects my sentiments as well. You are laughing because you are enamored with yourself and your concept of intellect which is sorely missing. Have a good day and I would appreciate it if you would not respond further as I will not respond in kind if you do We are done.

  68. The great thing about forums is they give an opportunity to express one’s views for folks who might not otherwise have a voice. Participants can express themselves in a manner not socially acceptable, and that if heard by their momma would get the speaker smacked.

    Endless repetition of the same platitudes, name calling and constantly veering off topic are not effective tools of debate.

    For the “readers” who appreciate facts here are some links to a mere sample of recent federal procurements related to weapons, ammo and explosives. This information and much more is available on the fedbizopps website.

    We should be thankful the government does not do many things well, especially keep secrets. Why, I remember like it was yesterday when the government staged the first fake moon landing.

    Happy reading.

    1. xfED — great name. Thanks for the resources. When I wrote the piece, I really was curious about the need for submachine guns in what I thought was a regulatory agency. Standard, over-the-counter AR-15s would be cheaper and easier to procure, for example. If USDA needs Class 3 functionality, semi-atuo SBRs and suppressors make more sense to me. Full-auto operation seems excessive. Maybe not, but the real point is to make the agency justify its request — taxpayers should be able to challenge the assumptions of their putative employees in cases like this.

    2. Woody, you are not alone in your perception of USDA as a strictly regulatory agency. The role of the IG community in law enforcement has evolved and has adapted to the increasingly violent nature of the bad guys in the same manner as police departments have. Even regulatory staff have been gunned down on the job.
      My instinctive response to the question of why does an agency need a particular weapon is the same answer I would give if asked why I need to own a gun or more than one gun. Because.

      It seems self evident, but perhaps it isn’t, that a law enforcement agency ought to be able to discern what it needs. And as silly as it sounds, probably the main reason an agency, particularly this one, would choose the .40 cal sub machine gun over an AR-15 is that it is less work to inventory one caliber of bullets than two. But the smaller weapon is easier to handle entering and exiting a vehicle, so there are practical reasons for that choice as well.
      It’s a fair question to ask though.

  69. Great post but I am afraid with people that support this guy they really don’t care. Whatever Obama says they take as gospel and even with all the scandals, proven lies, lack of transparency, etc. they just don’t care. He has appealed to a class of people that are not the ones driving this country forward but those who are more willing to take what he gives them because they don’t have to do too much for it. You are correct and even though you didn’t say it if things continue as is, we may see ourselves embroiled in a vicious civil war with American fighting American once again. I hope it never comes to that but if I have to defend myself, my family and the Constitution I will do it.

    1. Thanks dprato, good to hear from an AMERICAN now and then. For
      some reason, we are willingly playing into the hands of those nations
      who would do us harm. Political unrest, poor foreign policy and
      disarmament added to civil unrest would give those unfriendly
      nations a key to the front door-they’re already coming in the back door.
      God bless America…..while there still is one.

  70. OK. How’s this. Obama was predicted to LOSE both elections by a significant margin. Instead the right was left holding their puds wondering how he won in light of these predictions and ‘polls’.

    If Obama ran today against ANYONE on the right, he’d win again easily.
    And I don’t have to prove anything to you about my credentials except to say that I was right through the last two elections and you were wrong. And before you accuse me of being bought somehow, I am not taking ANY government assistance for anything, no SS, no medicare, no nuthin’

    I gladly pay just under $100k in taxes every year and most of the people I know are in the same league.

    Want more proof? Hillary will win the next election easily. Mark my words. The problem with your side is one of numbers. The 10 to 30 million people who were supposed to MARCH on Washington to remove Obama gathered dozens, maybe tens of dozens, no where near 10,000 let alone 10 million. It was a joke and everyone had a good laugh at the wackos who spoke, mostly about BS and made up fears. There were people at the Bundy ranch in Nevada a few weeks ago who actually thought that Obama was gonna attack them with a drone. Seriously.

    God, I laughed til my ribs hurt.

    1. To categorize anyone/everyone that disagrees with you as “looney” “wacko”, etc., demonstrates that after 18.5 years of education, you really haven’t learned much….

  71. Now that we are comparing credentials I got you beat with a Doctorate in Educational Administration from Syracuse Universtiy. You can talk all you want but you still haven’t said a thing or proved anything except that you like to hear yourself talk and repeat the Obama rhetoric. If you would at least read the polls you would understand he is in a serious decline are as the democrats because more and more people understand exactly what these folks are all about. So keep trying but next time say something that makes a difference.

  72. I went to school for 18.5 years, earned two masters degrees and have actively read more than you can even imagine.

    What you’re really saying is “Why don’t you read more of the loony, right-wing fear and grab-yer-guns web sites so I can be afraid like you are?” Freedom of speech works both ways pal. Inviting me to read more BS only wastes my time.

    I’m a solutions person, not prone to wasting time on people too locked up in their own fear they can no longer rationalize.

    1. Typical “cop-out” Beau…time will prove the concerns (you labeled as “fear”) are, indeed warranted. When that time comes to pass, will you come up with some other rationalization, or will you be regretfully aware of your judgmental error? While your (18 1/2 year) education is commendable, book learning is and never will be a substitute for experience and common sense logic via historical fact – again, time will tell….

  73. I gave you a novel idea and that was to read more. Also, I notice that you didn’t offer much of anything yourself or does that only apply to us lesser people in your view? People like yourself seem to think that when you say something that is it. That is the problem with the current President who thinks because he says it, it is the right thing. Unfortunately for people like you and him we have freedom of speech and the freedom to think for ourselves. Whether you agree with me or not is irrelevant. But you do need to read a bit more as you obviously think you know it all already.

  74. I think G man kicked your butt and was right on target. You are an arrogant, I know it all type person with sarcastic responses and no substance. Typical Obama type person. I used to be on Huffington Post and all those Obama folks talked just like you. All sizzle and no steak.

    1. So your response to my saying you’re wrong and delusional is to simply call me names. How appropriate. No new ideas, no way to fix anything, no suggestions to make a better America, only fear.

      Nice goin! I can tell you’re a ‘real’ American.

    2. Beau – to be a ‘real’ American is a way of life, not just a label. Too bad your vast history of education leaves you shallow and idealistic. Mindless conformity such as yours is a ‘real’ detriment to the integrity of the Bill of Rights…

  75. Apparently you don’t read enough or you would see the writing on the wall. Do you even bother to listen to people like Obama, Biden, Bloomberg, Feinstein, Reid, Pelosi etc etc. As far as the liberals being the ones to do the job of course not they get others to do it for them by couching their concerns in legitimate sounding rationale but like Obama he is more concerned about gun control and making laws that infringe on law abiding firearm owners than whether or not he saves our people in Benghazi or our sick Veterans. You need to read more to see that almost every day this guy is up to something that is not in the interests of the American people. Also, if you don’t like how I feel about it, to bad.

  76. Hey, it’s OBVIOUS from the question that you’ve NEVER gone into a field full of HOSTILE COWS looking for the one selling ILLEGAL RAW MILK over the barbed wire at night. It can be VERY INTIMIDATING. Give these guys a break, LET them have some protection and peace of mind!!!

  77. @deprato – Yea, it’s coincidence, it’s BS people make up on these boards, it’s ‘facts’ that aren’t, it’s all sprinkled with hate generated over two elections. Next thing we’ll hear on this board is that Obama has developed a secret army of Elvis impersonators who’s capes disquise a new 40 cal full auto weapons to overthrow America. It’s BS.

    So you would have us believe that Obama is secretly arming the IRS, Social Security Administration, the Post Office, Dept of Education, and ‘other’ law enforcement agencies in order to ‘take over’ the old America that exists in the mind of a person full of fear and hate.

    C’mon, do you have any idea how many people that would take? Are you suggesting that there are enough AMERICAN Obama voters, Democrats, liberals and progressives who are willing to shoot-to-kill their fellow Americans to simply disarm them? You’d need millions of people to turn against their fellow Americans.

    That ain’t gonna happen. You ‘theories’ are hooey, based on irrational fears and the illogical assembly of disparate ‘facts’ woven to create an even greater fear in someone else.

    I suggest we try and focus our attention instead to veterans affairs because we’ve ignored problems with that agency since WW2. When I returned from Vietnam there was no heroes welcome and many of us just tried to slip back into society quietly. Many of us had, and continue to have problems related to that war.

    If we can’t get it together enough to fix the VA, what makes you think Obama can get millions of Americans to take up arms against other Americans? In a rifle fight? Not feasible. Not possible. No way.

    Your way-of-life is more under threat from big medical insurance companies, communication companies, big coal and oil and the fat cats, than from Obama.

    1. Beau, I’ve been following your comments on this thread for a while, and it’s painfully obvious that you are a dyed in the wool Obamanite. The man is without a doubt in way over his head. He is proof positive that “Affirmative Action is a disaster as it leads to the promotion of unqualified individuals. (Also known as the Peter Principal)

      Your accusations of people not likening him or his policies as being “Racist” is BS to use your term. That’s bush league, the man is inept, unqualified, inexperienced, and that my friend has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE COLOR OF HIS SKIN, (BTW, he’s half white.)

      Now as to your denial of his plan to de-arm the citizens of the country. All you need do is Google “Gun Control Obama” and 241 MILLION results come-up. You decide for your self.

      And lastly, his private army. This is the relevant part of the transcript:

      Obama, July 2, Colorado Springs, CO: “[As] president I will expand AmeriCorps to 250,000 slots [from 75,000] and make that increased service a vehicle to meet national goals, like providing health care and education, saving our planet and restoring our standing in the world, so that citizens see their effort connected to a common purpose.

      We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set.
      We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.”

      Now couple that with the FACT that Obama had the NDAA changed so that he (Obama) could declare martial law WITHOUT congress’ authorization.

      So these are the facts. As a brother veteran of our era, I needn’t have to explain the Communist plot to you. You really need to open your eyes to what’s going on around you, it is NOT GOOD.

      Thank you for your service, and thanks for listening. As a veteran I ask you to look into “Oath Keepers”, give it a look. There’s a reason for it.

    2. I disagree that Comrade Chairmen Obama is in over his head as you say. His actions, in 100% of examples, have ben to act AGINST the interests of the United States, from the IRS Scandal to Benghazi, Fast and Furious, the V.A. scandal to the support of Al Qaeda linked organizations in the Middle East such as the Muslim Brotherhood.

      NOBODY gets it wrong 100% of the time by accident, he should have stumbled into a correct action at least once by now if he were just in over his head. It is clear that the little dictator, along with his entire administration, are enemies of the United States, you remember that section of the military oath we all took to “defend the Constitution against all enemies, Foreign and domestic”? Well I did the foreign part decades ago, now it looks like we are at the domestic part.

      Civil war is upon us, you cannot reason with a cultural Marxist like Beau so why waste your time? Elitist libtards like that are just targets awaiting engagement, nothing more. Your time is better spent checking zero and running weapon manipulation drills, the time is near when they will serve you well.

      Danger close, line of departure, lock and load.

  78. And what are we paying the Marshall Service for? I thought they were suppose to be the National Police? FBI, DEA, ATF deal with this type of stuff as well. By their nature and function it is the agencies noted as well as the Secret Service and Law Enforcement in the Park Service and perhaps a few others where this makes sense. But arming these people to the teeth while we have an FBI and Marshall’s Service does appear to be questionable same as the IRS, SS, Post Office, Dept of Educ. etc etc. This is Obama’s army that is suppose to be as well equipped as our military which he is dismantling piece by piece. You really don’t think it is coincidental now do you?

  79. “Boy Bob sure made hamburger out of that cow!’ How stupid, USDA with sub-machineguns, whoever came up with that idea must have mad cows disease.

  80. Here’s a follow-up to the story:

    WANTED AT USDA: SUBMACHINE GUNS: The U.S. Department of Agriculture inspects meat, grades eggs and sends out crop subsidy checks, so what does it need with submachine guns? That was the question asked yesterday following a story in the conservative online publication Breitbart that focused on a solicitation request filed a week ago by the department for .40 caliber machine guns with 30-round clips. A link to the article was tweeted by Rep. Tim Huelskamp, who suggested the expenditure was an example of government waste.

    USDA responded to POLITICO by explaining that there are more than 100 agents employed by the law enforcement division of the department’s Office of the Inspector General who carry such weapons because they are involved in the investigation of criminal activities, including fraud, theft of government property, bribery, extortion, smuggling and assaults on employees. From fiscal 2012 through March 2014, OIG investigations pertaining to USDA operations have netted more than 2,000 indictments, 1,350 convictions and over $460 million in monetary results, the OIG told POLITICO in a subsequent email. More for Pro subscribers can be found here:

  81. As you know I was responding to the person who claimed he was in the military but it is obvious from the polls this President has been on his way down in the polls both in job performance and popularity. It has taken too long for many to wake up but it does appear to be cascading as more and more of his dirty deeds are being exposed, finally. I am 68 years old and have seen a good many Presidents come and go but this guy is the worst.
    To even call himself an American makes me ill.

    1. Well said dprato! I’m 63 yrs. young, ex-cop, and U.S. Navy veteran, & couldn’t agree more. Calling ones self an ‘American’ is not simply a word describing ones nationality, it is a way of life, encompassing a vast array of principles, values, morals, and virtues that for the most part our commander-in-chief seems to be lacking. I used to believe he was simply an idealist that is out of touch with reality, but unfortunately it is becoming more & more apparent that he is in fact a realist with objectives that put the best interests of this country and it’s citizens subordinate to his own personal agenda.

  82. So you would rather we believe that somehow, because Obama was elected, the Obama administration is secertly building up multiple government agencies to either attempt to disarm America, OR,
    battle against their fellow Americans, thus explaining the purchase of different caliber guns. I see. . .

    You need oxygen my friend. No one in America could keep a secret like that anymore en masse. Not possible. Besides, the numbers don’t add up, you’d need 3-6 million people willing to shoot their fellow Americans. Besides, why use a rifle, when the govt has drones you can’t even see. This level of suspicion of our government is unwarranted and likely based entirely upon deep bias. Try to get over the TWO elections. And I don’t wanna hear BS about Obama buying votes, I’m white, and a veteran. None of my white friends got paid anything to vote for Obama who won 5 times more voters than are/were on foodstamps, or welfare. He won, fair and square. Get over it.

    Lets all remember who created the biggest govt boondoggle of them all (after Iraq and Katrina) the damned “Homeland Security Act” and the badly mis-named “Patriot Act”. Nobody here said squat about that moron Bush.

  83. Are you certain that a President can issue an executive order denying Congress the right to question him. You do realize they can impeach him if he is in violation of the Constitution, try him and even remove him from office.
    I think you also realize we will be in a state of civil war as I am certain many in the military and law enforcement as well as everyday citizens are not going to stand still for something like that.

  84. I never do the work for people who are too lazy to disprove what I said with the facts either. So get off your butt and look those things up if you know how to search on the internet.

    Additionally, I notice you provided no documentation for your military service either so take a hike and I will stick to what I said. No I don’t want to be your representative because you are a hypocrite and a typical Obama supporter.

  85. Great post, I have been going at xfed for two days now because I think he is an arrogant AH, who is just like Obama himself. I have told him that people like yourself who are also in the know disagree with him and I think you just ripped him a new one. Great job and right on target in every respect.

  86. @ xfed: There is obvious hypocrisy as you talk out both sides of your mouth. In one paragraph you claim you, “never attempted to justify a ‘need’ for those weapons”, and then go on to talk about the deficient firepower that led to the deaths of SAs Drove & Grogan during their shootout. Would you please make up your mind?

    You go on to say, “purchasing a different caliber is not exactly earth shattering news”. Seriously, you’re kidding right? Please don’t insult the fine folks in these forums. Not everyone here may have a law enforcement background as you or I, but they are here for a reason; they are knowledgeable about guns and ammo. They know a change in caliber is quite an issue given the current ammo shortage. And even without a shortage we all know the .40 cal has more stopping power, so what is this agency beefing up for? I’d say that’s a very reasonable question.

    Even at a minimum, a concern is still warranted if nothing but for the additional taxpayer costs associated with all the new training that must be done with a more expensive round by these agents. So to sarcastically dismiss the issue as, “not exactly earth shattering news” is uncalled for.

    And just which “factually incorrect statements” do you not have time to shoot down? What makes you an authority when you’ve provided nothing more than speculation yourself? The most you’ve offered is that the USDA OIG’s 9mm pistols are, “probably due for replacement”.

    It may not be intentional, but you do put on an uppity sort of “us vs. them” attitude as you spin off with another supposed fed and joke about burning a G-Ride. As former federal agents that’s not very mature of either of you, even in retirement. You see I never forget I represent the government and serve the public. Therefor I must be accountable to them. Making jokes about burning their tax dollars is inappropriate. Especially given how on-edge the public is already about government fraud, waste, and abuse these days. Such a mentality creates division which is not needed right now, or ever.

    In my career I have seen massive amounts of government waste and illegal activity by law enforcement that was entrusted with millions of tax dollars. I was responsible for single handedly taking down an entire corrupt department and almost lost my life doing it. It was so deep and wide spread that OIG refused to believe me at first. They humored me by making me slowly collect the evidence without assistance. Once they realized how big it was, they (OIG) tried to make it go away.

    Long story short, I finally had to secretly meet with a Senator and a Congressman for protection and to force the OIG to take action. In the end I prevailed and cleaned house. To this day I still pay the price with attitude from agents that miss their corrupt friends while refusing to believe something this big actually happened within our ranks.

    I’ve learned one thing over the years… where there’s smoke, there is fire. If your gut tells you something is wrong, pursue it. Don’t allow anyone else to convince you otherwise. So, here is what my gut tells me:

    Along with law enforcement agencies stockpiling billions of rounds, I have to question the types of ammo solicitations and purchases by innocuous agencies such as the Dept. of Education, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the Social Security Administration, and the U.S. Postal Service; all at a time when the public can barely get their hands on a box of .22 rounds.

    I worry when I personally hear Obama say we need a national security force that rivals our military and then watch him implement one executive order after another designed to erode civilian gun rights while increasing police powers. Add to this the IRS scandal, Fast & Furious, and Benghazi and I say there is plenty of smoke.

    But let’s forget all that conspiracy crap and just use our God-given brains by considering that the Office of Inspector General whose sole purpose was once to act only as an internal government watchdog to their own agents is now turning its resources externally towards citizens at large. That should be enough to raise anyone’s eyebrow. Their need for increased firepower is just the icing on the cake.

    1. For someone who understands, no explanation is necessary. For someone who does not understand, no explanation is sufficient.

    2. @ xfed; For your edification here is the actual quote in its proper context by the Italian Dominican priest and influential philosopher:

      “To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.” ~ Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274)

  87. now you are the dream police. if the USDA wants machine guns, what business is it of yours. maybe the cows like to shoot machine guns or something. the reason for anyone to purchase a gun does not have to be justified. maybe people buy guns just because they want one. ask a good question, why don’t you.

  88. I understood precisely what that quote meant and that’s why I feel you are arrogant. People in law enforcement get killed frequently and thinking that it is always because they didn’t have enough firepower is also BS. I saw a video of a cop who stopped a driver and froze when the guy went into his truck and load his firearm. The cop sprayed bullets all over the place and even hit the guy once but the guy loaded his rifle and shot the cop right in the face while he begged for his life. If he had simply shot him after giving him the first or second warning he would still be alive. He gave the guy four or five warnings which gave the guy enough time to load his rifle and shoot the cop who when he decided finally to shoot was erratic and it cost him his life. I suppose if he was armed with an RPG he would have been fine. Give me a break!!!!

  89. How about taking over ranch and farm lands for the use by3 the federal government for what purposes would only be a guess. But, whatever it is, it is not for the good of the American people.

  90. Well if you bothered to do your own research and listened to people on here with just as much first hand experience you would see they disagree with you and that is not contempt. Assuming you are correct and are the authority is arrogant at best.which is why people do not trust this administration with their know it all attitude. You have stated your case and I have listened to others and I believe there are far more of them than you and I will go with their opinions on this topic. Needing sub machine guns for this particualr job is BS.

    1. I don’t have time to shoot down every factually incorrect statement people make. I never attempted to justify a “need” for those weapons. I pointed out what seems a simple enough observation, that USDA had submachine guns a long time ago and the fact that they are purchasing a different caliber is not exactly earth shattering news.
      When Ben Grogan and Jerry Dove were killed in the FBI Miami shootout in 1986 no one apparently thought they “needed” more than their handguns and a shotgun. You cannot always wait until you “need” something to go and get it.
      I am sorry you did not understand the William Paley quote on “contempt prior to investigation.” It simply means when we make up our minds ahead of time no amount of evidence can open our eyes.

    2. Roger That!!!
      Same reason I keep fire extinguishers in my house, truck & boat (although it is required in the boat) even the only thing I ever set fire to was an old G-car.

  91. Maybe something to do with Obammy’s executive orders for taking over the farms, farmland, farm equipment and operations as he so desires with the proclamation of martial law? That’s the game plan and if you think it’s tinfoil hat stuff, LOOK IT UP! He now has the power to take over food production in this country, as well as whole sectors of housing and manufacturing, energy and transportation, and congress can’t even question his actions for a minimum of 6 months!

  92. Dear unknown
    My father told me never to argue with an ideologue. Any person, even those of limited educational background such as you, who uses the phrase “you people” in debate is not worthy of a response. Go visit Al Sharpton. He uses “you people” all the time in his racist rants.

  93. The topic as presented by the CTD forum asked for information to help the community understand why a particular agency issued a solicitation for the purchase of some .40 caliber submachine guns. I can only provide facts and try to stay on topic. Rhetorical questions and speculation don’t contribute a lot. Someone once said, “There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which will keep a man in everlasting ignorance, that principle is Contempt Prior to Investigation.”

    1. Your quote is from a psychiatrist. It is found in “The Doctor’s Opinion”
      In the book Alcoholics Anonymous —

    2. The quote is attributed to Herbert Spencer in the Big Book of AA. Spencer lived from 1820 to 1903. William Paley wrote Evidences of Christianity in 1794. That work contains this sentence “Contempt prior to examination is an intellectual vice, from which the greatest faculties of mind are not free.” in reference to Romans skeptical of early Christianity. Thanks for noticing. The idea is the same regardless of the origin.
      Sadly much of the discussion on this thread is anything but “relevant and insightful” in regard to Woody’s article.
      Proverbs 14:7

  94. If you have read the comments from folks who have actually worked in these government agencies and are in the know, most of them think it is BS.

  95. Let’s focus on the content of the article and not illegals. Nothing on illegals will happen any time soon anyway. So let’s see what Cheaper Than Dirt has published. The actual article called this a “solicitation” which in the contracting world is an incorrect term. At this point it is a SOURCES SOUGHT and not a solicitation Basically theUSDA is just looking out in industry for comments and to see how many companies can meet their requirement should they decide to actgually solicit the product. Once the FBO.GOV web site publshes the CONTRACT AWARD, then the USDA will be expeding funds to purchase the sub machine guns from teh awarded company. FBO.GOV is a public web site that anyone can access, so yes it is considered an “open to public” web site. There is no hiding anything here,

  96. No it was not clear at all from your original comment. I would question how often they were used back then and also how many agents did they have then as compared to now. When you see that almost every government agency is being armed to the teeth from the IRS, SS, etc. and with this President in office who does not abide by the laws of land himself, it makes people want to spit. I wonder how many folks on SS present a threat to the US Government that SS needs armed agents. Despite what you say this is a crock.

  97. I don’t know if any of these folks ever hunted but if you have you know a few things. Most of the time you are limited in the number of rounds you can carry in your firearm not only because it is sport but because it is safer than having people spraying bullets all over and also destroying the thing they are hunting. Now I understand that they are not hunting the wild pigs for food or trophies but can you imagine two or more people hunting these animals in the brush and shooting machine guns to kill them. They are probably more likely to shoot each other. LOL We have a great many naive people in this country and that is why Obama got elected both times.

  98. I have yet heard anyone adequately explain why we sent 250 law enforcement and wranglers at a cost of $3 million to collect $1million? Furthermore, we go to this extent to enforce the law on an American Citizen yet we let millions of illegals into the country that cost us $100 billion, yes, $100 billion a year? I think you would agree there is something wrong here.
    We treat illegals better than American Citizens and we treat them better than the people who immigrate here legally and have to jump through hoops to do so and at a fairly big expense to themselves. So I think your rant about a man who provides food for this country versus an amount of money he allegedly owes is a crock, plain and simple.
    You should be demanding that this government take all these unneeded law enforcement people in over 48 government agencies and reassign them to close our borders.

  99. This article was not about replacing 9mm pistols with 40 s&w pistols. It was about replacing them with 40 s&w sub machine guns. You need to reread this so you are certain we are all on the same page here?

    1. If you were responding to my comment regarding USDA OIG having the MP-5 years ago I thought it was clear that we had submachine guns (MP-5) in 9mm years ago, that this procurement for .40 cal submachine guns was not a new concept, that coincidentally their 9mm pistols were probably due for replacement. That procurement ought to be public information as well.
      I have heard the wailing and gnashing of teeth over all the many many bullets the government buys. But when I examine the procurements and do some simple arithmetic the number of rounds per agent per year is not as many as we are led to believe.

    2. Believe that if you like. Police agencies who previously would never admit it publicly state proudly that they are “paramilitary organizations” when in fact they are public safety organizations. My little town proudly proclaimed that they got an a government surplus armored assault vehicle. They are preparing for war with the civilians and nothing else.

  100. I noticed you did not provide any details about your alleged military service. That not withstanding however I assume you can read. Did you not read about Obama saying we should do as Australia did which was to forceably disarm their citizens? Did you not read the quotes for Diane Feinstein about if she could have gotten the votes on the first Assault Weapons ban she sponsored she would have confiscated every single one of our firearms? Have you not read Michael Bloombergs mantra about disarming American Citizens in the name of safety? I could go on and on but to tell you the truth there have been a good many service people who fought for our right to free speech and everything else in the Constitution and I truly believe your mindset amongst the military, whom I have know quite a few, is in the minority. Most of the military hates this President.

    1. I love the way you people are always saying this politician was quoted as saying this and saying that but never show proof of the quote. Show me where I can physically see where Diane Feinstein and Michael Bloomberg made these quotes. Oh, mad I am in this Military and have been for nineteen year and I don’t disapprove of this president or hate him. So don’t say you are representing me and the military in saying we hate the president. I never made you my representative.

    2. You state “Most of the military hate Obama”. Most of the civilians hate him too except those that are super liberals and freeloaders on the government teet.

  101. Perhaps you would like to address the reason we send 250 law enforcement officers and wranglers to collect cows at a cost of over 3 million to collect an alleged 1 million from an American Citizen who raises cattle to feed people in this country? Now we spend 100 billion a year on illegal immigrants and instead of reassigning all these agency law enforcement officers (in over 40 Federal Agencies) to Border Patrol to save us the 100 billion we go and pick on Cliven Bundy? I think you have your mind in the wrong place as an American Citizen which I hope you are. When they come to get you to put you in one of the Homeland Security holding centers or American Gulags, let us know how you feel then.

    1. I followed that story over several outlets and in some depth. Seems there was a little more than Bundy’s grazing fees involved. Turns out Harry Reid, as in Nv. Senator was involved in that mess up to his eyeballs. Has a son in Clark /County Govt. and a Chinese group looking to put a large solar facility in the area of the contested grazing fees, to the tune of some five billion dollars.
      It’s almost never what it looks like when politicians are involved.
      Saturday we had a rodeo and learned the definition of “Politics” from the clown. POLI means many TICS large blood sucking insects.

  102. What it all looks like to me is that unless you’re a gov’t. employee of some sort, you’re not really a citizen, just someone to be used.

  103. Maybe, just maybe, the fact that right-wing “militias” spring up in a moments notice, packing high powered assault rifles, pointing them at federal workers (while hiding behind women and children) creates a sense of self-defense in a work force. Just ask the folks who work at Chipotle’s. How about we address the fact that (for all of you “founding father patriots” types) George Washington took care of this type of “welfare” (not paying taxes/fees) with a full charge and killed them all… a little thing called the Whisky Rebellion…. But, history and facts have never really been a big thing for most of you “people”.

  104. I purchased my first Beretta 92S in 1976, as a police K9 officer I had been carrying a S&W 59 that jammed on me and later broke on the firing range and became fully automatic (sear broke). At the gun smith store I saw the Italian made Beretta 92S and fell in love with it. I carried the 92S until 1993 when I retired, and another 3 years as a reserve officer. During all these years I never had a miss fire or a jam. I was so impressed with this weapon that I purchased a 92FS inox last year (2013). Down through the years there has been a lot of ribbing about the 92 but during the 20 years it saw duty I had no problems with it.
    During my first 10 years of service I went through 5 S&W weapons 3 revolvers and 2 semi autos.

  105. Having spent 32 yrs as a federal agent, most of which involved drug investigations, I occasionally worked with several USDA OIG agents.
    I can tell you that one of their primary functions is to investigate food stamp fraud. Back when food stamps were paper, it was not uncommon for drug traffickers to take food stamps (at a discounted price) in exchange for drugs. I can recall cases where UCA’a (undercover agents and officers) used paper food stamps as buy money in order to then trace the stamps through the organization. Some of the UCA’s were even USDA OIG agents.
    Even now, as EBT cards have replaced the paper “stamps,” drug traffickers still buy these cards, and the funds behind them, from the welfare recipients, again on a discounted basis. In these instances, the welfare recipient sells the card to the trafficker and then gets more dope each month as Uncle Sugar puts that months’ money on the card.
    We all scream, and rightly so, for “something to be done” about welfare fraud–well these are the folks that are doing it.
    When they are backing up a UCA during a buy, or hitting the house of a trafficker who is involved in food stamp fraud, how much protection do you think they should be allowed? A .40 cal long gun, with possibly a 2 round burst capability, is hardly overkill, when you look at the weaponry they are likely to encounter from the other side.
    It was said that no one but the FBI and police should be armed. That’s a nice thought, but what about the Secret Service, DEA, etc?
    Think about it.

    1. RetiredFed,

      I think the point of the other posters is that we, average citizens, see more and more federal agencies gearing up. Even NOAA has armed agents. Now the USDA wants armed agents? Or, should I say armed agents who have automatic weapons?
      With more and more actions by average citizens being criminalized (take for example Bobby Unser, Indy Car racer, lost in a blizzard was found guilty of a Federal misdemeanor, “unlawful operation of a snowmobile within a National Forest Wilderness Area” (16 U.S.C. 551, 36 C.F.R. 261.16(a)) while trying to find shelter from the storm he was lost in. He almost lost his life. Sure the fine was minimal, but it just goes to my point of the advance of federal criminalization of ‘everything’.) and that list of things being criminalized grows monthly. We, the average citizen, do not want to see that list continue to grow, we believe, that if there is no victim, there is no crime, so why do those agencies need to grow in power. Because, never doubt, a gun gives the possessor of it, power. We do not need federal agencies to have more power.
      You say they need to be armed during raids. Surly you do not think that if there is a crime that needs to be stopped, that the existing agencies can not handle it? The FBI can’t do it? The USDA can not ask for help from the state equivalent and have the state police or local police help? We really need more armed federal agents? Really?

      Have a great day.

    2. I try my best to refrain from talking specifics about my profession. I will say it is very similar to what you did, but more functionally covert. You should be able to figure it out from there. I will assume you are being forthright about your retired profession so I will not question that. But I have to say that if you were a federal agent, given what we know about procedures from procurement to operations, why then would you not be even more suspicious about this particular purchase.

      Let’s start first with the fact there is nothing new about these types of operations within the USDA OIG; so why the sudden need for new and different weaponry now? Have tactics changed? Do they foresee a change coming in the threat dynamics of future ops that didn’t previously exist? What’s all of a sudden wrong with their existing assault equipment stock?

      You and I both know their daily grind is usually spent serving subpoenas which does not necessitate such weaponry often. On the rare occasions they pull ops that do require long guns, they are usually coordinated and accomplished jointly with other agencies that are so equipped.

      Aside from the initial cost of procurement, we must add in the additional costs associated with instructor training, qualification time, practice ammo, and maintenance; all during a time of extreme budgetary constraint on the heels of a government shutdown.

      Simply put, this move really does not make sense and is worthy of questioning. Especially during a time when there is already a stink about all the federal ammo purchases, so why do this now?

    3. so we give freely food stamp without wanting to spend the funds to verify the true need, but feel it’s perfectly fine to purchase expensive weapons to enforce any misuse of the food stamps.
      how about just taking more time to verify the need and use, maybe provide a I.d when the EBT cards are presented .. that would keep anyone except the appropriate user from using them…., oh these are the same one’s that protest mandatory I.D to vote..
      there is no reason the USDA needs Automatic weapons. we don’t need a gov that doesn’t take the ness steps before distributing funds and wants to correct misuse by armed force.

    4. Yesterday I submitted a comment on this topic and either CTD did not like it or they never received it. So the short version is, I retired from USDA OIG eight years ago. At that time we had MP-5 SMG in 9mm. I was a firearms instructor. Prior to USDA I served as a S/A with the FBI. This procurement of .40 caliber weapons is not new. They were overdue to replace their 9mm pistols as well. Nothing new.

    5. @ xfed: You make it sound so casual. In reality if what you say is true, that’s an even bigger deal. According to you we are not talking about adding weapons to an existing inventory, but an entire switchover to an entirely new weapons platform. These types of changes don’t occur over night and are not decided at OIG level.

      You having been a firearms instructor should know there is a great deal that goes into weapons life-cycle maintenance decisions that must occur before a total replacement is ever authorized. So, once that decision is finally made, the testing and justification for such a large change is a protracted process. Meaning that somebody somewhere would have heard of this well before a procurement announcement was placed on the website.

      Even so, the final authorization would have to have been made at secretary level and there should be some type of paper trail or at least mention of it in the OIG’s semiannual reports to Congress. Maybe I missed that.

      And no offense to the work this agency does, but the majority of USDA OIG Special Agents are embedded with other task forces throughout the nation so most of their stats really belong to other agencies and are double reported as their own to justify their existence. Simply put, in my professional opinion there’s just not enough action in their job to justify my tax dollars being spent on this particular procurement.

  106. They’re being purchased to help eradicate the feral hog population. The hogs are destroying public lands.

  107. Just another example of the Feds gearing up for war with the American citizens! The People of these United States need to wake the hell up and put a stop to the Nazi-style takeover of America!

  108. dprato, you have a very valid point regarding the illegals, but you have to keep in mind, they are just unregistered Democrat voters until this administration can find a way that makes them shinny new citizens!

    Getting back to the weapons and ammo, this could be one of the only campaign promises that Obama will keep! He told us that he would build a private army that was just as well equipped and supplied as the U S Armed Forces.

    Did you ask yourself why? Does the term “Posse Comatatus” ring a bell?

    1. Now Obama’s managed to by-pass Congress to enact “Martial Law” for ANY reason HE (Obama) feels necessary!

      We the people now have EVERY alphabet agency in OUR Government armed and supplied for war. War against whom? I’ve got news for you, it’s not the Canadians, or the Mexicans.

      It’s a pretty good bet, that it’s US, we the people!!


    2. WTF are you guys smokin? None of that takeover crap is happening. Stop listening to so many conspiracy theories – you act like there’s black choppers on the way to your house, and that’s not real.

      If Romney had won the election, none of you would be sayin this shit. So save it, it’s racism at it’s core. You want to jettison the very constitution you purport to stand behind – just because you lost, not one, but two legal and constitution elections. Your side lost.

      As a veteran, I didn’t fight to come home and fight my own damn government. No one gonna take away your guns or mine, so chill and learn to let the hate go.

      Now everyone can attack me for not being as ‘afraid’ as you are. I fought for your right to disagree with me openly as an American. Show some respect and try and do the same.

    3. I think that blaming every opposition to a black president as racism is the only true racism taking place. I have a friend who has been telling of conspiracies for years. I’ve laughed it all off until about two years ago. Because he was right. Why cow cops need subguns? Why does homeland defense need BILLIONS of 5.56 in 62 gr hollow points? Why did they also start using targets of old people kids and pregnant women? It’s not for illegal immigrants or Canadians or for war as hollowpoints are forbidden under Geneva convention. Citizens appear to be the new enemy.

  109. We’ve all seen footage of food crisis in other countries, 3rd world yes. Starving people are starving people no matter where they are. The writing is on the wall, i live in fresno ca where 70%+ of the us agriculture comes from. Today, i saw farmers tearing out trees, not a couple, entire orchards. . . Olives, oranges, all sorts of nuts, cherry, etc. Its real, i watched it happening today. Not 20,30,40 years from now, today. Not to mention live stock feed has been reduced significantly. USDA IS GOING TO NEED WEAPONS TO MANAGE THE FOOD DISTRIBUTION

  110. I have something to say to those in this forum that have heartburn over the rest of us questioning this weapons acquisition. I don’t give a darn if it was a million ballpoint pens, as a tax payer I have a right to ask my government why! Likewise they are obligated to answer me, and with specificity.

    A man that never questions his government lacks wisdom. It is our duty to constantly question those in power. The entire construct of the Constitution establishing the 3 equal branches of government were designed purposefully so that each may keep an eye on the others.

    By its very design it screams the obvious intentions of our founding fathers, which was obviously not based on a system of trust but rather a system of constant checks and balances. Throughout all of time they knew there would always be one constant that would never change; that being the imperfect man, who will always be vulnerability to corruption.

    Their wise decision to never trust was once again echoed by the addition of the Second Amendment, which solitary purpose is to provide a way for citizens to never be disarmed in order that they may have the ability to rise up against any potential tyrannical government.

    Anyone that thinks this is nonsense is a fool.

    1. For some reason there are people that just can’t grasp those facts. It’s a shame.

  111. I can see no good reason why meat and vegetable inspectors need .40 cal sub machine guns that fire in multiple bursts, unless they will be used in the future to control the population if an uprising occurs after fiscal collapse—which is a significant possibility.

    1. All depends where they take them. If I lived inner city, I would be concerned. Out on an open field or a ranch, they can have them. A .40 submachine gun is not something to take to an open field with citizens having high powered rounds with much more capability.

    2. when the dollar collapses the gov. will declare marshall law and take control of everything including all farms and food resources

  112. Ohhh myyy godddd…. Albeit possibly the most difficult written communication that I have EVER had to wade through, somehow I was forced to stay with it. It was like an out of control train that was absolutely going to crash; and being there was critical. You must hand it to someone so passionate about a topic that they type their entire exaggerated opinion with their iRection banging on the little ios7 keyboard.
    SERIOUSLY: Who really…
    A. Believes that a gun magazine’s ‘BLOG’ (the best retail pub around) will affect policy decisions at the Fed level ???
    B. Cares about, much less knows, the infinite details concerning the background process resulting in this issue becoming public ???

  113. Well there are currently over 40 Federal Agencies including the IRS, SS, BLM, etc that have far more law enforcement people and firepower than they need to do their job. It should be clear that Obama is paranoid that the Feds are going to have to protect themselves from the 100 million plus firearm owners who are getting fed up with his socialistic, dictatorial BS. How about sending all those 120,000 people to the border to keep the illegals out of the country instead of worrying about people like Cliven Bundy who at least contributes by raising cattle for food to feed people here. They spent over 3 milliion to send law enforcement and wranglers to collect one million. They spend 100 billion a year on illegals. Seems to me they could close the border down and save us that 100 billion and leave poor Cliven alone.

  114. I apologize and know this is not a chat or a debate site but I cannot let a couple of commentors get away with flat out blowing smoke out t heir butts because their mouths must be defprmed from years of performing kiss ass and both Fellatio and Cunnilingus upon their superiors .

    They talk bs and the stats show that the numbers of armed encounters by all the branches of fedetal employees only they with Actual Mexico border patrol and FBI and DEA out of country come under serious hostile fire.
    The BS about cross and joint arms confrontation by using both sides as initiators scares the hell out of any field officers such as FBI BATF and DEA and Border Patrol.

    There is good read on for turf fighting as how the f would you feel going into a quite possibly full bore gun fought backed by men you never seen before or do not know their bore they your capability.

    Have done the schooling bit at sevetaldigfrent ditesbgor over 35 years, first in N.C. with fed trained Latinos and have known professionals in almost all ged bureaus security and field officers of dn near all of them are dumb as rocks as to even firing a weapon.

    If Forest Service knows of large pot farm they contact DEA national guard recon o coast guard monitors they only pull rear ecelon duty.

    This.massive training and supplying is not for fn combat operation by DHS Field teams from bureaus of fed or even the activitys of “Fusion venters”!

    My guts tell me there are skunks trying to bust into coppstosuck eggs. And they dn well know more than what they are talking about.

    I cannot believe that no visitors to this site do not have connections with family friends and good bj buds within the fed bureaucracy

    1. Suggestion, you need to check your spelling and do some work on your sentences and punctuation. If you had a point to make it was lost in your almost unintelligible comment. There is a spell checker on here that puts a red line under misspellings. Also, learning how to type a bit better would help. I am not trying to be rude. You have lost your readers with all the errors in your comment.

  115. people please listen,most of you do not see the big picture. remember history always repeats its self. with all that has been going on in this country with all the retarded new gun laws,shortages of guns &ammo, and import restrictions on old technology.” real dum”. just thank the stupid kids, even worse parents. and the insane pollititions that you voted for,who are slowly bringing our great country to its next CIVIL WAR. so whats next? think about this the next time you walk into your grocery store’s meat counter to buy that t-bone steak, and are greeted by a fully auto machine gun toting government employee telling you,” no steak for you for one year”. our greet gun manufactures see this, why don”t you?.

  116. They are raiding diary farms that sell unpasteurized milk to neighbors and they are demanding the address of any buyers. Are the big farms that afraid of the competition or is the govt looking to get every penny from taxes, why else is a gallon of milk running more than gasoline today.?

    1. because when marshall law is imposed Obama’s executive order 10998 authorizes the government including the department of agriculture to take control of all food resources

  117. Why not?

    Know a couple of people who work for the USDA, I say WHY NOT!
    Don’t people who are just trying too do their jobs, too protect the general health of the public from contaminated Meats, Produce, and Dairy Products, and also having too dodge multi-vectored weapons fire. I say again why not. You fight firepower with greater firepower.

    1. Yeah! Because investigating food stamp fraud by unwed mothers in the ghetto is nasty business.

  118. For those that may not know, the Inspector General (IG) office of any agency is an internal investigative section whose purpose is similar to that of Internal Affairs (IA) office for police departments. Meaning their primary function is to investigate corruption, fraud, waste, and abuse from within their own ranks.

    What does this say about the Obama administration if his own employees are so corrupt that submachine guns are required to police them and keep them in line?

    1. G-Man: You’re right about the Inspector General guys — each federal agency has them and they investigate internal waste, fraud and abuse inside the agency.

      Don’t confuse that with the regular law enforcement officers within the U.S. Forest Service. They’re cops who serve in very remote places and need to be armed appropriately.

      If you say our federal government needs to be reined WAY in, then I’m on your side. I’d just like to know a lot more about what this purchase is for before automatically ringing the alarm bells. Without knowing the details it doesn’t do anybody any good. If they’re buying them for the IG guys then I have a problem with it too. I just really doubt that’s the case.

    2. @ vanodave. I know you can’t read every post, but earlier in this forum I had already distinguished the differences between the Forest Service and the USDA’s Office of Inspector General.

      Regardless, a simple Internet search quickly resolves any question or doubt. It is already public knowledge these weapons are specifically for the USDA’s Office of Inspector General Agents. This office is not the purchasing agent (Acquisition Management Office) for Forest Service or any other LE branch of the USDA.

  119. Remember that things aren’t always what they appear to be…from a law enforcement officer with 34 years.

  120. The whole question posed by “cheaperthandirt” staffers is thoughtless. USDA OIG are federal law enforcement officers that investigate everything from petty theft up to death investigations. Further, OIG special agents serve on FBI Joint Terrorism Task Forces like every other agency in the land.

    Stop trying to incite displeasure about the Obama administration by inferring that the government is “arming up” any more than they been for the last 50 years or so. Cops need bigger and better guns than the crooks.

    1. Oh come on man!! The Dept of Ag. Needs sub machine guns? Give me a break. They are not a law enforcement agency., and dispatching feral pigs is best accomplished by a traditional rifle or shotgun. A sub machine gun in .40 cal is a military or gangbanger type weapon, and USDA inspectors checking our meat supply need these as, say, a “fish needs a bicycle”
      That last from 40 years ago by some crazy feminist.

  121. I’m quite certain that the White House can answer your questions. Whether or not they will is another question.

  122. What are the indications for reasonings that there is still a Constitutional Representative form of government; One that has any of the old institutions , of say pre 1945, seperations into three seperate but equal branches?
    What power does your vote have when you have nothing left to vote for but to be able to get a permit to keep your guns or buy another?
    Both of the peoples houses, Congress, with the peoples blessings, and it made no difference if connservative, liberal, atheist, bible thumpers, gays lesbos and unknowns, Congress signed away any and all Rights of 200 years of American peoples civil libertys.
    Jow by granting the exevutive branch any and all means tp pursue the :War on Terror.
    Gentlemen you are living in a fantacy world where you either become snake mean and join the new world you asked and made possible.
    It seems as if many here, who support the lowest forms of corruption pur political systems owners and are already well on road to being Good Little Berliners of 1930’s.
    The book says; “By their works you shall knpw them”, and boy have we ever screwed the pooch in governing ourselves into non entitys.
    Learn the Ways of serfs and masters, your place or their placement.
    They; your Betters; and make no mistake they know they are Better, foresee a need to put you
    in your place, wether it is on your knees or 6 foot under.
    No longer any ways out but kiss and suck up to keep your guns of humility.

  123. Yes, makes you wonder why all the alphabet agencies are buys weapons and ammo in record numbers doesn’t it? Is our mzslum president going to attempt an executive order to disarm the US citizens and trample The Constution of The United States? Will there be another Civil War? You bet there will be if that is ever attempted.

  124. While I am a staunch 2nd Amendment supporter and have written several articles to reveal past unorthodox purchases of weapons by our government, my sources tell me this isn’t one of them. The USDA is one of the primary pest eradication agency in the country and these sub-machine guns are intended for a feral pigs eradication team test in Texas.

    1. Mr. Philo,
      Please cite your source substantiating your claim of a feral pig eradication test team.

    2. The USDA and Wildlife Services already shoot many, many, feral pigs as part of their duties and studies. A friend of mine attended the Wild Pig Conference in Alabama last month where USDA discussed providing more capable weapons to the teams who were investigating feral pig populations and their biology. From my understanding, there was a sidebar with some of the attendees from a few agencies that discussed effective weapons, calibers, and herding/corralling techniques. During that meeting, it was vocalized that funding was already in place to purchase non-standard weapons that use existing ammo supplies for a team(s) operating out of Texas. I have not seen the minutes of the meeting yet to see if this discussion was documented.

  125. Jerry Cummings, the funny thing about that comes down to why they are farmers in the first place: Freedom. Ol’ Macdonald will fire the first shot!

  126. all true patriots take note…those working aroung or near the NSA and other government agencies start documenting all vehicle license plates…public info to know who is working there..not only that will be able to publish for public record those individuals and know where they live …thereby when SHTF we know here to go to eliminate possible threats of those who are trying to violate the constitution of the United States…start with all liberals in congress…yes Nancy P Harry R thru the internet they cant hide…..start with the head …if you cant just start trimming from any part of the body….slow but methodically eliminate the threat

  127. just start making note of all government employees their families and next of kin publish their address of all family members then if and when SHTF we know where to start …if they are going to harm our families..well we know how to keep them wanting to stay home to protect their own….might just work

    1. You sound just like the journalist that printed the names and addresses’ of the gun owners in New York.

  128. “Attack of the Killer Tomatoes, Part III”?? King B is arming the Executive Branch while simultaneously gutting the Military. As usual, it is a slow, stealthy process. He is boiling the frog and the frog is us.

  129. The Forest Service is under Dept of Ag. Pot growers abound in National Forests in California, and possibly other states. The pot growers defend their plantations with booby traps and firearms. Just one possibility.

  130. The USDA has been part of the military since the Regan years when they were used to ship Hughes 500 helicopters to Sadam. That was how they got around an embargo to Iraq. They could be arming the USDA, but I doubt it. We should be questioning why the USDA needs guns and where they are to be used.

  131. Why are Federal Government Agencies arming?

    Executive Order 13603 (2012), upon statement of a need for ANY resources for national defense purposes, authorizes the seizure of private property.

    Would not food inspectors armed with sub machineguns be better equipped to make such a siezure?

  132. I have my Gadsden flag flying, and I’m all for the complete elimination of some entire U.S. government agencies. However, I don’t have trouble with this purchase IF these guns are going to the law enforcement guys working for the Forest Service. These guys work in some VERY remote places where help isn’t coming any time soon. Having some firepower in the trunk is just a good idea, just like you or I would carry in the outback. I know this purchase looks funny cuz it’s USDA, but as long as they’re going to these officers I’m OK with it. That doesn’t mean we don’t have to keep watching OUR government like a HAWK!!!

  133. 40 cal subguns? Odd caliber. Think I would have gone 5.56.
    Yeah…kind of odd.
    Obama admin wants to take/keep guns from the public, but seems to be arming a lot of government employees.
    Whos next? TSA?

    1. Not so odd when you know what is trending within law enforcement calibers. At the moment it is the .40 cal. Much like NATO attempts to keep calibers similar for interchangeable magazines etc., so does the Federal Government.

  134. 30 round clip, 2 rd. burst fire, 40 cal. in hollow point expansion ammo… FACT: Millions of rds. recently purchased to use on citizens as it’s against Geneva convention for outside war use (no brainer that only anti-2nd admenmentist can’t comprehend)

  135. Before we go conspiracy theory here, lets wait a bit and see what they actually need the weapons for. I their answers don’t make sense we need to really start digging deeper.

  136. Our Congressman will be at our Church June 4th and I intend to ask him about it. The only swat teams we need are FBI and State police and there should be away to defund these excess spending agendas by agencies.

  137. The paranoia and infantile jokes encouraged by and exhibited on these message boards lends credence to the caricature of gun owners as illiterate, potentially violent fools who cannot formulate a rational argument to defend their position.

    As to the original question posed; the answer is quite simple. The article noted the IG is a law enforcement arm of the USDA but then made a dumb statement without thinking through the implications of the scope of the law enforcement functions of the USDA. There are parts of my local National Forest that are known as places to be avoided due to the large numbers Pot farms scattered through the area and the armed drug gangs who “encourage” people to stay away. So what Federal agency has authority over these lands and the mission to confront the situation in the National Forest? This is the the mission of the USDA, hence the need for these weapons.

    1. Wrong. Not so simple. The Inspector General (IG) section of the USDA would not be found traipsing through forest lands. That policing activity would be performed by the USDA’s Forest Service branch of armed law enforcement agents. The USDA’s Office of Inspector General’s primary purpose is to investigate internal matters of fraud, waste, and abuse from within their own ranks. Thus the question raised for such over-the-top weaponry still remains valid.

  138. I agree with John. It doesn’t take a genius to be aware of the push by the government to control and eventually eliminate legal gun ownership while arming, department by department, government bureaus with assault weapons. Logic leads to only one conclusion: population control via one world government run by the elite.

  139. That’s so they can stop farmers from drinking their own cows’ raw milk and their own chickens’ raw eggs!

  140. Cheaper Than Dirt I guess you guys don’t watch the news. You might of missed the bigot rancher that owes the Gov more than a million in back taxes yet thought he was justified to continue to use public ground just because he had gotten away with it for so long. If you missed that then you probably missed the huge crowd of armed mis-informed folks that showed up to support the bigot rancher until they all figured out he was a major a-hole. Most left but the ones that remained were fanatics ready to start a major skirmish for no other reason than they objected to the USDA and USBLA doing their jobs. In situations like this is it illogical to think that the Gov agencies that are attempting to uphold the law should not be able to protect themselves? Every time one of these anti- Gov gun conspiracy stories surface it makes us common sense gun owners look like a bunch of paranoid anarchist.

    1. I find it interesting that you believe there is some justification to spend 3vmillion on law enforcement and wranglers to collect 1 million while we allow millions of illegals in the country that costs us 100 billion annually. I find it interesting that people like yourself think that is OK but when it comes to American Citizens we should enforce the law? When you have a President who changes laws illegally (Obamacare deadlines) without going through Congress how can anyone expect the rest of us to obey the laws. If you have any friends who immigrated here legally ask them how difficult the process was and if they get the same help that illegals get. If you don’t see something wrong with what is going on here, perhaps when you wind up in one of those FEMA camps after that AM knock on your door you will finally wake up.

    2. I guess you missed the part where the rancher has and was still paying the local officials for use of the and as originally agreed. Also the feds were prepared to make another Waco out of the situation. And that the administration was in the process of clearing out those pesky ranchers so their energy buddies can site another solar experiment to further drain our tax dollars(remember Solyndra). Its everyones duty to fight oppression especially that which is carried out under the guise of “law”. These basic facts were all reported in the media, I suspect you you support disarming law abiding citizens and are a shill for the administration. Get the facts before you buy into BS>

    3. While Bunde was not right , We Must ALSO Keep in check every attempt of over use and possible abuse of power, by local state and Federal Govt. healthy discussion is always productive.
      If we pass enough laws we will all be criminals, then we can justify the meter maids needing UZI’S too.


    This may offer a different perspective; the DHS is prepping the entire federal government for para-military operations as contingency against civil disobedience and more:

    The US Army released a somewhat ominous list of new manuals over the past month. In the “New Releases” page at, you’ll find “KILL BOX PLANNING,” “CIVIL DISTURBANCE,” and most recently, “CIVIL-MILITARY OPERATIONS CENTER.” One among them, entitled “DETAINEE OPERATIONS, referenced as FM 3-63, has the unique distinction of being the co-operations manual with the now famously leaked FM 3-39.40, “INTERNMENT AND RESETTLEMENT OPERATIONS.” This is the manual that exposed the fact that domestic FEMA camps were not only planned, they are here, and the US Army is being trained to run them.

    Politically correct language is often used but those familiar with military manuals and government speak know the line between civil disturbance and civil disobedience is as thin as the line between resettlement camps and POW camps. It doesn’t take a conspiracy nut or a wing nut to read these detailed diagrams and instructions for ‘interning’ civilians and confiscating firearms including barracks diagrams and procedures for separating families.


    – Restricted Issue – Army Training and Instruction Manual establishes FEMA Camps for American citizens and sets forth procedures for gun confiscation, classification of citizens as enemy combatants and internment in POW camps run by FEMA that already exist today. Used in connection with several other manuals.

    Very scary stuff, when the Dept. of Homeland Security and FEMA are involved the plans are more than standard military planning for every contingency.

  142. All one has to do is go back to Obama’s first campaign where he stated that he would build a private army as well equipped and supplied as the U S Military.

    Seems he’s doing a damn good job! Anyone believe they’re there to protect us from Mohammad and company? My bet is on you and me my friends!

  143. Oh it is to “defend farmers” against WILD HOGS! They are damage crops and “may” be the cause of the Pig virus that effected so many pigs in US.

    USDA is even considering us DRONE aircraft for search and destroy missions against these hogs over farmland in the US!

    How that for spin?

  144. I’m moving back to the Bavarian countryside while there is still a way out. The next step will be closing the boarder and mandatory work camps. I’ll keep my guns in Switzerland just over the boarder. I have deer hunted in Southern Germany, kind of expensive but nice animals. That’s what I’ll be doing while the rest of you are forced to work as slaves for some big corporation.

  145. The USDA’s National Finance Center is a payroll shared-service function operated out of several facilities in the Midwest and southeast. Like every facility that has blank government checks (US Mint, Treasury locations, etc.), there is a threat of theft, and thus a high security requirement.

    It’s understandable that people without information would find the procurement of these weapons curious, and it wouldn’t naturally occur to the average citizen that the USDA would operate a payroll facility. During the Clinton Administration, in an effort to increase efficiency and reduce cost, the Federal government drove a payroll and HR shared-service initiative, with the objective of consolidating payroll facilities to a few large-capacity operating centers, to gain economies of scale. As one of the largest departments in government, the USDA already had a few large-capacity payroll centers in place. They now process payroll functions for about 25 different agencies, which reduces payroll operating costs by about $130 million every year over the prior non-consolidated model.

    1. The formal response from the USDA IG for this weapons procurement makes no mention of payroll offices. It specifically addresses these weapons for use by IG agents only, which have nothing to do with day-to-day operations at payroll offices.

    2. How many armed guards and machine guns do all the banks in the country have? You have to be kidding me with that comment.

  146. There is a simple explanation: the USDA is expressly tasked with protection and control of the US food supply in a national emergency. It’s an Executive Order by the President. Look it up.

    While you’re at it, look at recent USDA solicitations and you’ll find FLIR sights and weapons storage racks for M16s. Again, it’s related to their tasking.

    Jokes about cows aside, I don’t envy the task they’re facing.

    1. I think you are a bit naive and it would seem to me that we have Federal Marshalls, FBI, local, county and state law enforcement and a military that can handle all those functions in an emergency. Would you care to look up exactly how often these folks have been needed? Most often the situations involving various agencies with their own law enforcement has resulted in the same type of fiasco as happened in Nevada with Cliven Bundy. These people could be put on Border Patrol and help us save the 100 billion a year we spend on illegals. We spent over 3 million to collect 1 million in the Bundy fiasco. If you don’t see something wrong then I pity you when you wind up in the Gulag because you didn’t have the means to protect yourself or simply thought that knock on the door was legitimate.

  147. I agree that this is just another small step towards the militarization of our government. It is a classic case if slowly boiling the frog.

    I would not be suprised if the USDA is doing this to tap into drug war funding claiming that inspectors in some areas are encountering meth labs and the like.

    For those that don’t know, the government has set aside funds for paramilitary units for states, counties, and municipalities under the guise of drug war incentives. The saddest part is that future funding is awarded based on drug related arrests and not convictions. This has resulted in thousands of false arrests with no real penalty because law enforcement is rewarded with added funding.

  148. The USDA does NOT need to have a criminal investigation division and therefore certainly does NOT need guns of any kind. Every agency within the federal government has a uniformed or armed service. This is NUTS! What I fear is that somehow, once these citizens put on a uniform, badge and a gun, they cease to think of themselves as regular citizens like you and me, and instead they act as though they’re above the rabble–that is us! I cannot imagine how they then are willing to fire on their own fellow citizens who pay their entire livelihood and to whom they owe EVERYTHING.

    I have NO RESPECT for anyone willing to do this; indeed for none of the myriad of so-called federal “law enforcement” agencies. Look at what has happened in such a short period of time. The FBI didn’t even carry guns until the J. Edgar Hoover time frame (during prohibition: 1920’s). Now we have department of AGRICULTURE people carrying sub-machine guns?????

  149. Stampede control? When the cowboys tried to turn the herd in the old westerns at least one always was trampled after his six-gun ran dry.

    Yeah, right. That’s it.

  150. This is not a paranoia delusion, but just a simple adding up up all the things our Gov. is slowly doing. Our Gov. is Arming all agencies, whether there is true purpose or not, come on Fema, a piece helping organization whose purpose was to help after disasters, has more ammunition than the Army + plus combined. Then In the same breath, they are trying to disarm us as much as possible.
    Fact is they are going for total control over the citizens, and someday unfortunately will make their move. If EVERYONE does not get off their butts, and start standing up, and fighting back, not with guns, but millions of us on their front lawn, it WILL be over for the free country.

    1. John, your use of the ‘us’ and ‘them’ argument is ridiculous. WE are a government of the people and by the people. The people making the laws and those enforcing the laws are citizens just like you. They are not a “them”. It is “us”. This whole idea that somebody else, some alien force is making the laws and enforcing them is completely false. If we follow your ideas we would be taking up arms against our our people. If you don’t like the laws, get them changed if you can. If you are the minority and you lose, tough! That’s how a democracy works. The majority rule. Your opinion is just that. – yours. Your free to express it but don’t think you can force it on others by use or threat of arms.

    2. Gee, Marv, do you really believe that Hairy Reid believes as you do? No way.. He and Mr. Obama continuously spout the “you” and “we” garbage.. And PLEASE Marv, go back and re learn the entire Constitution writing process used in Philadelphia, oh so many years ago…. Then remember the question that a woman asked Dr. Ben Franklin when he came out of Independence Hall….. And the word “democracy”, whether capitalized or lower case is not used in the Constitution….. No where in the entire 4,400 words is it used, so why are you using it????????? And when the Dept. of Education, the IRS and others need arms, why do we need the US Marshals? Armed “storm Troopers” descend upon Amish dairy farmers? Local police departments with HUMVEEs???? There may not be a conspiracy, but tyranny may be just over the hill or around the corner.. A very tired, disgusted and very old AF Sarge, who wonders if his 25 plus years did anything more than get him a retirement check….

    3. Marv, there is a minor flaw in your thought, we are not a Democracy but a Republic. We elect representatives to HOPEFULLY follow our wishes & REPRESENT our values. Unfortunately of late this has NOT been the case as many of our electors are only interested in the next campaign & who can finance the next election for them. Then they will “stand with their party” so that they do not lose party support & endorsement. Only after these conditions are met will they CONSIDER what their constituents actually want provided it does not compromise the desires of financial supporters or the party they represent.

    4. Not sure where you live but it seems to me that when the President decides to change a law he doesn’t like going through Congress he just does it. Makes laws meaningless when the person in the highest office in the land does not obey the laws (even Obamacare) that he wanted passed? So please don’t pontificate about laws and citizens like the rest of us. Obama is not like the rest of us, nor Bloomberg, nor Reid, nor Pelosi, nor Feinstein and the list goes on and on. Start looking at what is occurring and realize it is not headed in a positive direction and it is them against us. When is the last time someone on social security took a shot at someone in that agency or did violence to them? Do you have any idea how many people die a year from law enforcement errors and they get away without even being prosecuted. You better so some research and stop being so naive.

    5. “That’s how a democracy works. The majority rule.”

      And that’s why we have, at least in theory, a Constitutional Republic. To avoid tyranny of the majority – so the majority can’t simply vote away the rights of the minority.

      Sadly, most people don’t understand that anymore.

    6. Make sure you owe taxes and do not file in 2015. We have to stand up before the only way to save America will be a civil war.

    7. Paranoia, indeed. What I’d like to know is, has all this new “armamenting” been occurring just since Obama’s reign of terror overrode everything, or is it as the progs are crying out.. “Ever since Reagan our gov. has been doing this!” ?

    8. Sadly I find harder and harder to deny, but its true. Government agencies are arming up with guns and ammo, and they’ll give any ridiculous reason they have to for an excuse. I for one will not feel any safer knowing my government is arming themselves while attempting to disarm its people. Its just a little too coincidental to me. People who stand up to these agencies like those sovereign citizens at the Bundy ranch know what to do.

    9. I agree with John 100%.
      This upcoming elections are very crucial to our freedoms. It seems the only politicians who will defend our Second Amendment Rights are the Republicans. Along with them are Senator Bernie Sanders an Independent from Vermont and Rand Paul, son of Ron Paul.

      Now, Rand Paul says he’s a Republican, he’s actually an Independent incognito.
      We need to kick ALL the Dems. out of office to ensure or freedoms.

    10. David, unfortunately the R’s are just as bad as the D’s on much of this. The ONLY redeeming quality is the 2A support. R’s like Graham seem to think this sort of thing is good – just look at how much support for DHS, NSA, etc. comes from that side.

  151. That’s the plan. Disarm the Citizen & take what is there’s by force.
    That’s why I wouldn’t give them one Canadian penny.

    Step 2 take away every right given under the Constitution.
    It’s so see through even a cluck can see.

  152. The posse comitatus act prohibits use of the military against the citizens unless the governor of a state asks for help. The end run around that is to simply militarize all TLA agencies and gut the military. Additionally, the DHS is giving out MRAP vehicles like candy with MOUs (memo of understanding) which I’m sure involve devoting police to anything the government asks for.

    1. That would be a negative. While rare circumstances do exist in which active duty military may be authorized for domestic policing over civilians, a governor’s request is not one of them.

      More accurately, exceptions to Posse Comitatus are allowed if conditions exist where a governor or its state authorities refuse or fail to take action to suppress violence that is seen by Congress or the President as hostile towards the constitutional rights of citizens.

      Regardless, the act does not have enough teeth to deter a President from overreach given the maximum punishment for violation is a petty misdemeanor which imposes up to two years in prison or a $10,000 fine. We’ve seen Obama and Holder commit Felonies without batting an eye; so they won’t blink when it comes to a Posse Comitatus violation.

  153. This smells so much like this is being pushed down on the USDA by those friendly folks at Homeland Security. There’s a lot of opposition to genetically modified grains and livestock from Monsanto and Con Agra so the USDA will need to defend “big AG”.

    “Standoff at Old McDonalds Farm”…..E I E I….bang!

  154. Think defense in depth, or if of militia mindset, offence in depth, because by now it should b be obvious that those being armed no longer concider you as an american but as a terrorist and domestic threat to thememselves,
    Those odd balls are already employees of government but they will not be spevificly used ss attack forces but as protectors of whatever civil body that employs them.
    Your military will be the first line of eliminating any armed individual or group of individuals by any meansnthey need.
    They will not be the locals who will be guarding survivors and providing transportation and protecting the faciliitys that are indred on BLM or DEPT of Ag lands or Forest Service lands or Federal Parks.
    Also any runners to those lands, boy -boy running up against killer john and joan he/shes with new SIG MPX Machine ovrr 900 rounds prt minute ability with instant 32-35 rpund mags. Mincemeat.
    Your police will still get paid to beat, kill, torture homeless and female protedtors when they are noy shooting dogs and unarmed criminals.
    Swst will get to be judgebjury fomestic terror squads raidingvandbtertorizing or killing suspected drugvusers or hell some guy whose out of prescription hesrt or his diabetic pills.
    Taking on gangs will ne real dpec opsbprofesdionsl andbbingo or weddingbparty goers as eell.
    Walk into future welfare and or any fef building and sneeze , look up and see those SIGS . IT WILL BE SIG AUTO TO be new full auto machine pistol/carbine.

  155. They need them for the next outbreak of mad cow!
    Dictator Obama, LapDog Biden, Old phart Reid, Eric Folder, North Beach Boozer Pelosi, Cattle Futures Hillary, Monica’s sucker, and the list goes on.
    They all have it and these firearms will be used to stop the outbreak fast.

  156. Hank, not for a second. King Barak is planning something big in the way of Insurrection Repression. But the real problem is that he’s going to CAUSE the Insurrection.

  157. There is a blog at the Herald-Tribune (.com) entitled – The Gun Writer, which directly asked the same question. The following is pasted directly from that blog:

    “USDA explains why they need sub-machine guns
    By Lee Williams, Herald-Tribune / Thursday, May 22, 2014

    I posted a story last week about plans by the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Inspector Generals Office to purchase .40 caliber sub-machine guns.

    I asked them to explain why they need the firepower, and how many they were seeking to purchase.

    Paul Feeney, Deputy Counsel, USDA OIG, responded last night in an email, six usdadays after I made my request for more info.

    It’s pure bureaucratese, and Feeney never said how many sub-guns the agency is seeking to purchase. However, he wrote that USDA OIG special agents are basically cops, and respond to “criminal activities such as fraud in farm programs; significant thefts of Government property or funds; bribery and extortion; smuggling; and assaults and threats of violence against USDA employees engaged in their official duties.”


    Woe be onto the poor farmer who falsifies a farm loan request, or who claims he has more CRP acres than he actually does.

    Here’s the correspondence Feeney sent:

    Hi Lee;

    I work on the legal staff of the Office of Inspector General (OIG) at USDA, which issued the procurement solicitation you inquired about.

    Our procurement staff provided me w/ some of the emails they received from inquirers who read about the solicitation.

    Thus I wanted to send you the comment OIG has been providing to folks who have contacted us.

    If you’re interested in further information about the activities of USDA’s OIG, we do provide all OIG audit reports, Congressional testimonies, annual reports, and special products to the public via posting them on our website homepage when they are released.

    If you wish to review information specifically about the activities of our Investigations division, we provide extensive summary & statistical information in the twice-yearly, ‘Semiannual Reports to Congress,’ which are also available on our website homepage. We also regularly issue ‘Investigation Developments Bulletins’ that summarize recent developments/outcomes from our investigations.

    Thank you for your inquiry to USDA regarding the procurement notices.

    Paul Feeney
    Deputy Counsel, USDA OIG
    OIG Comment on Procurement Solicitations:

    The Department of Agriculture’s (USDA) Office of Inspector General (OIG) received inquiries regarding a recent OIG solicitation for a weapons procurement. The procurement pertains to OIG’s effort to replace automatic firearms with new semi-automatic firearms.

    The Inspector General Act of 1978 authorized OIG to, among other duties, pursue criminal activity, fraud, and abuses impairing USDA’s program and operations. The criminal investigation responsibilities and impact of OIG are quite extensive—from fiscal year 2012 through March 2014, OIG investigations pertaining to USDA operations have obtained over 2,000 indictments, 1,350 convictions, and over $460 million in monetary results. OIG Special Agents are authorized to make arrests, execute warrants, and carry firearms.

    Regarding the need for weapons’ procurements, OIG’s Investigations division conducts hundreds of criminal investigations each year, some of which involve OIG agents, USDA employees, and/or members of the public facing potentially life threatening situations. OIG Special agents regularly conduct undercover operations and surveillance. The types of investigations conducted by OIG Special Agents include criminal activities such as fraud in farm programs; significant thefts of Government property or funds; bribery and extortion; smuggling; and assaults and threats of violence against USDA employees engaged in their official duties.”

  158. I’m thinking they may be out in for a name change soon to something like the “Department of Insurrection Repression.” I see we’re not the only ones arming ourselves to the teeth. But when we do it we’re bad, right? Any body trust these low lifes?

  159. Either the rumors are true the GUVMINT is planning for some major law enforcement operation, and / or … they are planning a shut-down of all domestic manufacturing of this type of weapon. I really cannot think of any positive reasons right now.

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