Will Universal Background Checks Put Your Name on a List?

Gun owners of America red and blue logo with patriot

According to a GOA release, “… gun owners’ focus must now shift to the part of Obama’s agenda which poses the most danger because it is most likely to move: the requirement that the government approve every gun transfer in America — the so-called universal background check.” GOA-LogoPresident Barack Obama recently proposed a series of actions he might take in regulating long guns and handguns. Gun Owners of America is particularly troubled by one proposal that might have a good chance of being implemented.

If the universal check is implemented, then the FBI would soon have access to a list of tens of millions of Americans who own guns, according to GOA. Here’s why: GOA says universal check is especially worrisome, considering how federal agents are already skirting the laws against gunowner registration, GOA claims. Several dealers around the country have informed GOA that ATF agents are going into gun shops and copying all of the 4473s, giving them the names of every gun owner who purchased a gun through that shop.

This is illegal under the 1986 McClure-Volkmer law, GOA says, but that has apparently not stopped it from being done, the group claims.

Moreover, if every gun in America has to go through a dealer, this will create a mechanism to compile a list of every gun owner in America — a national registration system.

So, according to the Gun Owners of America, the biggest danger gun owners face right now is the prospect of universal background checks — which the group says would create a platform for national registration and eventually more regulation or even confiscation.

  • Do you agree?
  • Have you heard similar stories from your local gun sellers about 4473s being copied and kept by BATFE agents?
  • Are GOA’s fears overblown about a national registry?
  • Do you agree that a national list of customers and guns purchased provides the means for local, state, and federal agencies to confiscate firearms, ammunition, and non-compliant accessories, such as standard-capacity 30-round magazines?

Let us hear your thoughts in the comments section below.

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Comments (169)

  1. YOU know what’s interesting, is that I took my teenage son for a sports physical and they asked HIM if there were any guns in the house. Good thing him and I discuss these things before hand and he himself also sees the government AGENDA.

  2. I used to have my own gunsmith shop and I have had ATF come in to audit my books and the agent made a spread sheet of every entry in my books as well as my 4473’s so they don’t need background checks when they can copy all the info they want in the name of a legal audit

  3. Yes I believe that Obama has no intentions of quitting on gun control until all Americans don’t have anymore guns. I think that by this universal check will be a disaster for any gun owner. They can confiscate our guns at anytime. If they want to really make a difference why don’t they actually go after the criminals. What kind of impact do they think they are going to have the only ones that would be registering are the law abiding citizens. It is going to be a long 4 years for a president more interested in taking our guns than the economy.

    1. That’s the whole point. They don’t care about criminals with guns, because that creates chaos which makes people dependent on the government. Once they have eliminated gun ownership by law abiding people, then everyone is dependent on the government. Then they get to decide who gets protection, and they own you.

  4. Black Lab –

    Regarding your point on organizing, our country is in the shape it’s in now because those of us who respect the Constitution and love freedom spend too much of our time enjoying the latter and taking the former for granted. Meanwhile, Leftist radicals like certain national leaders who’ll remain unnamed, spend their time reading Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals and organizing, organizing, organizing. I now understand those odd and secretive groups that met on my college campus, planning “the future.” These people are 30 years ahead of us, but their methods aren’t a secret, unless we just can’t read. Time for some “community organizing” of our own, not for “resistance” but for positive change. As Alinsky said, there are three kinds of radicals: (1) the ones who want to shout down the establishment, make a scene, pat themselves on the back for standing up so bravely, and then quit the battle, (2) the ones who want to destroy things and end up alienating the rest of the population from their cause, and (3) the ones willing to quietly work to build up an army of citizen voters and sympathizers who’ll peacefully enact the radical agenda, while their opposition freaks out and can’t figure out why the world suddenly changed. Wake up, freedom lovers. Option three is the only one viable for us. Time to turn their own tools against them and start organizing.

  5. @ E. Schlegal, “There are not enough jails and prisons to hold all these people. What will the govt do?”

    Have you heard of FEMA Camps? The gov’t has anticipated this question and FC’s are their answer. “There over 800 prison camps in the United States [in 2011!], all fully operational and ready to receive prisoners. They are all staffed and even surrounded by full-time guards, but they are mostly empty.”

    So the question is not “where will they put us?” but “will we go quietly?” Speaking for myself, I would rather die than go to a freakin camp. And I’m not just saying this as a “keyboard warrior,” but as someone who is ready to do whatever I can to help fight to protect this country from tyranny. The solution is not to hide your guns or “throw your guns in the nearest lake,” (what purpose would they serve then?) but to organize.

    Edmund Burke said, “When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.” My background is very different than yours, Mr Schlegel, but we all must (and we are) associate, or fall.

    But it hasn’t gotten to this point. Yet. I’m trying to stay in the present while being vigilant to what they are (and have been) putting into place for their facsist and communist version of the future.

  6. If it ever comes to laws requiring the surrender of all firearms to the govt., you will have a million people, at least, who will refuse to voluntarily surrender their firearms. There are not enough jails and prisons to hold all these people. What will the govt do? We will become a nation of law breakers. Solution is to have a good place to hide your guns from “search and seizure” actions by the govt. Or throw your guns in the nearest lake.
    I suggest all gun owners not tell others what they own and how many. That is no ones business but your own.There will be informers to pass on this information to authorities. I will not answer any questions from people asking me if I own a
    gun including my doctor. Shooting ranges will become favorite places for the Govt to raid. I served in the Navy for 26 years and never thought our country would come to what it is becoming now.
    E. Schlegel

  7. This msg is for our brother, at arms; John SSG USA. You’re a man of honor and I am proud to call myself an American only because of Warriors like you. May the “son of man” bless you and every one you love. The Lord is with you. Always. Especially for those who bring praise and awe to the power of God. John my name is Roger Barnes and you have given me new hope. Thank you.

  8. That’s right Joe; this is just one more unintended (or maybe intended) consequence of government meddling in our everyday lives. They think they know what’s best for us as we are too stupid to think for ourselves. The problem is they are the stupid ones that believe this entire utopia – heaven on earth crap.

    Think about every bad thing that’s ever happened in the history of mankind. Did bad things happen because of smart people or stupid people being in charge? Take for example, WW2 in Japan or Germany before the war. Do you think that WW2 happened in the way it did for these two counties because of smart people or stupid people in charge? Of course – it was the stupid who were in charge in both cases. Do you think there were smart people that were aware of what their leaders were doing and were justifiably terrified at what the possible outcome would be? Of course there were.

    Most of the ideas the present administration is now pushing will only end up making matters much worse. People will simply not go to a mental health professional for fear that they will get their guns taken away. Also remember that there are many doctors out there who are fiercely anti-gun and would like nothing better to see them removed from everyone’s house.

  9. Great point, Joe! The Main Stream Media is only addressing the parts of background checks that sound logical. Obama’s real agenda, registration as a precursor to confiscation, is hidden (like his passport records, college transcripts and real birth certificate).

  10. Something else to keep in mind… ever heard talk about “keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally ill”? I thought so.
    Remember that under the present psychiatric handbook, almost everyone has a defined mental condition. EVERYONE. Depressed, tired, too-happy, afraid of heights, etc, etc. And that’s if your shrink is honest.
    What if someone decides that the very act of wanting to own a gun means that you have suppressed violent tendencies or paranoia??

  11. REMEMBER, folks…. if you have to go through a licensed dealer to transfer a gun, then you can be DENIED the ability to transfer a gun. Ever been to a state where the gov’t legislates the number of liquor licenses? Sure, it’s legal to buy BUT they can simply cancel some or all of the licenses.
    They could enact a “transfer fee” to provide for “public safety programs” and make it as high as they want to…. $100? $500? $1,000? $1,000,000?

  12. Our freedoms are being poached upon, and soon “Slavery” will come back in the form of the citizens becoming the slave of the “Elite Masters”.

    The “list” is already being compiled. The real question is the law enforcement and military going to shoot on the US citizen in a mass rebellion. Obama is already checking this out, and it will be interesting to see if he generates his own brain-washed army. I have military family, and they state they will not shoot at the American citizen standing up for our freedoms and the constitution!

  13. On the surface, it appears that a universal background check might stop criminals from getting guns; but if they (CRIMINALS) cant find A GUN to buy without registering, they will resort to stealing them from a law-abiding citizen like myself (then my home and family becomes a target).
    One other point;our government has had success with things like the drug war (they have practically irradicated drugs, right hahaha!), illegal imigration, and our national finances couldnt be better. Should we depend on our govt to protect us like the 47% depends on a check? Parden my Independence but No! I have no problem with “LIVE FREE OR DIE”. I would like to die on my terms if possible!

  14. Yes I have heard that three local dealers, all had the same thing happen. A person walked in to sell a used gun. All 3 bought the gun and as soon as the person walked out in came the police with warrants. In all 3 stores they went through the files and in all 3 cases the gun dealers were within their right to purchase the firearms. After they looked through everything they left and said nothing else.

  15. I would like everyone to listen real close to what I am telling you because I can confirm these statements to be true, I know for sure that gun control is already being trained for by some not all but some National Guard units accross our nation every weekend, how can I confirm this I have been in the military now for most of 26 years and with this brother hood you make friends in lots of diffrent locations, some of which are in many diffrent states. I have personally spoke with several who say that they are doing riot training and how to dis-arm civilians. They have even given me the FM#(Field Manual)that instruct you on how to do this, and this topic has been brought up at every training in all these diffrent locations and it was stated that yes if the need arose National Guard units would be called upon to do this very task of dis-arming citizens for their own safety in a area of civil unrest with a special interest being place on those who hord ammo or weapons. So with this being said do I think that Obama’s proposal is worry some yes with out a doubt!!!! Do I think that they can make it happen they will at some point either now or the future try, will it be our own military? I think not! most of us are gun owners as most of you are and we will not be subjects to a dictator!!!!Just the thoughts or a soon to be retire Army SSG I for one will live free or die trying just like my fore fathers. “An Army of sheep led by a Lion is more to be feared that an army of lions being lead by a sheep”

  16. If they come after my guns then it will be the most exciting hunting trip I’ve ever had as I will not under any circumstance register or give up my guns. With 80 million gun owners and over 300 million guns in this country I would dare any government to attempt to disarm us. History is replete with dictators disarming its citizens and Obama wants to be a dictator. Wake up America and keep getting prepared. As citizens we are the the world’s largest Army.

  17. i’m sure the government is putting a list together but think about it if they try to confiscate weapons they would have to go to every gun owner at the same time if they went down the street to one house to get his guns someone else on the street would take them out this is America we fight back. remember: TO LIVE IN PEACE YOU MUST PREPAIR FOR WAR.

  18. In Diane Feinstein’s bill, Government officials, including U.S. Senators, are exempt from all of the proposed bans and restrictions. In other words, she is exempt from her own proposed bill. WHY?

    DHS has ordered BILLIONS of hollow point ammunition. Enough to shoot every man, woman, and child in the United States 6 times. WHY?

    Anyone notice that lately it is getting hard to find center fire pistol and rifle ammunition? See item 2.

  19. Please keep your comments reasonable and rational else they will just dismiss us as “gun nuts” I live in the “Live Free or Die” State. Lately that emotion has been polluted by the folk moving North from Massachusetts.

    We need to be more organized and united. Our elected officials need to know our concerns and be held accountable for their actions. Extralegal actions must be stopped by “We the People ” else we will have president for life obama. I wish I really knew his real intent and how he will get the criminals to obey his symbolic new laws. Concussion in football? Butter knife attacks? Diet coke? Big macs? Where will this assault on America stop?

    Vote, then call and write elected PEOPLE (they are just people) until they obey the Will ot the People. Your freedom is being taken for “your own good” and how can you object to that?

    Object in writing, in calls, in visits to your officials in your votes. We were blessed with freedom; do not allow it to be taken from you for your own good.

  20. my friend you are absolutely correct, exept for one thing our first loyalty should be with our father in heaven, all other come a distant second. trust in the son of man for he alone is your salvation….. many have lost connection with God. it is gone for good to those unfortunate.but to be foolish or be in the company of such is sin. the biggest the best trick Satan did to the people of the world was making it believe he didnt exist

  21. Their are twenty thousand [20,000] gun laws on the books already, another one wii not stop criminals from breaking any law . I expect our Representives to tell honest citizens to be armed and have firearm capacity any criminal might in teir possession.Please remember what George Mason a co-author of the Second Amendment durning Virginas Convention to Ratify the Constitution,1788 and I quote–I as Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.” By the way at that time a citizen could have in their possession the same firearm or better than a soldier carried in the Continental Army. God Bless America

  22. In response to “ready and waiting”, who asked why nothing has been done about Obama: There are many reasons, first and foremost is the Main Stream Media. The major news networks and newspapers ignored the skeletons in his closet from Day One. He has been schooled in Communist and Socialist ideologies since early childhood. He may not even be eligible for the office he holds. Millions of dollars were expended in attempt to hide his shady past. Sheriff Arapio has proved his birth certificate and selective service registration are forgeries. He more than likely attended both Columbia and Harvard as a foreign exchange student. He traveled to Pakistan in the early 1980’s when Americans were prohibited from going there. Consequently, his college transcripts and passport records are sealed. He has powerful forces behind him, namely Globalist George Soros. Make no mistake, Obama will do anything to disarm the American people.

  23. Would someone please tell me something? Why hasn’tanything been done about this regime? They have broken so many law’s it’s absolutely ludicrous and obscene, it seem’s like nobody even cares, what the hell is going on? Why are the people just turning a blind eye? It’s amazing to me. This guy should have been gone halfway through his first term, and it’s so in your face it makes me want to vomit. I mean DANN!

  24. It seems obvious to me that the time is way overdue for GOA, NRA, Second Amendment Foundation, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, National Organiztion for Gun Rights, and the others to stop competing with each other and along with all our support, peacefully rally together to finally organize and maintain that “well regulated militia being necessary to a free state”, that was originally intended by the Second Amendment!! — and then say “don’t tread on me!”
    We could then use volunteers to guard our schools, theatres, malls, neighborhoods and Nation from would be criminals, terrorists and oppressors (foreign or domestic), as the Founding Fathers originally meant for it to be!!— or would we rather just keep giving the issue lip service? — What say ye?!

  25. The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Enough said..God Bless the USA we need it. I don’t intend to give up my guns.

  26. Does anyone even have full details about how such “universal” background checks would be implemented? If the requirement is to simply place a phone call to the NCIS to get an “approve or decline” message, with NO information recorded about the firearm in question, then there is little opportunity to create a registry. If you must provide serial numbers, then that’s a different matter entirely.

  27. I’m delighted all you guys agree with me and with each other. I admit I’m scared. You are scared too. You can comply, and have peace (for a while), or you have preserve and build your self-respect by refusing to comply. Better yet, find others on your side and plan your actions. It’s sad to say, but Obama only respects power. He does not care, and even wants the country to be destroyed, but you must nevertheless focus on what is right and our constitution. Your first loyalty is with our founding fathers and not a popular demagogue.

  28. Agree that the Universal Background check is a BIG danger to the future of the 2nd Amendment and our right to keep and bear arms. The idea is very well received by those who don’t understand the fear of gun owners loosing their rights. It seems logical and seems to be a beign requirement that the logical person would support. The problem is of course that the first step to confiscation of our guns is through registration and that is what the Universal Background check really is; just disguised as a common sense move.

  29. Sell your guns (kind of) right now. There is currently no requirement that you collect or copy ID info on the buyer in a private sale, so it’s not your fault if they cant find “Mr. Doe” after you sell him your guns. There are excellent products for concealed storage out there. Use them. When we have regime change, this will go the way of the Brady Bill if we all pull together and vote. If we don’t, we have nothing to complain about.

  30. This may have already been commented on…I admit I have not read down through all of the comments so far. When going to the doctor, if you have Medicare, there is now the question: “Do you have any guns in your home?” I have been told that if you do not answer or you say no but it is discovered that you do, the payment for the medical service being provided at that time might be denied. It seems to me that this is another roundabout way of determining who has and where guns are located.

    Freedom comes at a cost most aren’t willing to pay.

    Molon Labe!,

  32. Has anyone tried to buy ammunition lately, especially handgun ammunition? Most of the stores here are out. I went to get some reloading supplies and bullets and primers are hard to find. Forget about buying a new press. Either a lot of people are stocking up or for some reason manufacturers are having troubles getting their products to market.

  33. The Abilene Police Department in Texas just placed and order for 110 weapons that required ATF licenses/approval. I suspect they will be full automatics like M16s. They just got an Armed Personnel Carrier. I understand the APC and could see a use for it once in 10 years but the full automatics? Why? Police all over the nation are gearing up into fully loaded military units. Some even have command posts set up with access to all the area cameras and many other military functions available. I personally do not want to have to go to war with other Americans including police. It appears they are marching forward to this cause and I cannot understand for the life of me why this agenda got such backing. Is this the tactic of the one world government conspiracy theory? Who would support that crap anyway? Have these police unit gone mad? Maybe we need background checks on politicians and policemen for mental illness! It appears to me, that greed has overtaken these people and the whole lot of them needs a few years in the mental institutions. I wondered why they dumped mental patients onto the streets years ago and now we are seeing the results. I suppose the mental doctors are involved also and allowing these nut cases to remain on the street. Colorado is a recent example. There are many others. Are these politicians allowing incidents to occur to gain a reason to change the Constitution? If so, they are some sick individuals including members of all parties! This needs to be looked at immediately because the future of the USA depends on getting the reins of this movement and jailing the participants permanently. From the President on down, they all need to be tested for mental illness. Maybe this is why the three letter agencies have been experimenting with drug and radiation effects on random citizens instead of using victims in another country. Not that that would be right either. It almost seems that these people have eaten the blue pill and been mind controlled to believing in this one world plot! If it were a legit thing, we would know all about it and it would be over the table. Maybe it is time for the government to idle through this administration before they start a war with it’s own citizen/owners. How you ask? Beats the hell out of me! But I believe this nation deserves to be salvaged. It has helped more people around the world than any nation in history as I see it. That deserves to be rescued and maintained. These people wanting some foreign entity to take over have eaten the blue pill also. Or drank the water or fell into believing all of the enemies bullcrap or whatever. Maybe it is time for those mental institutions to be opened up again and the politicians nationwide screened. Where is Superman when we need him? He sure isn’t in Washington DC!

  34. The fact that a reader of this blog wrote an antisemitic comment as written by “Ed.” earlier in this thread, quoting, “(Boxer, Feinstein, Schumer, Lautenberg, Soros, Bloomberg, Motzenbaum, Kohl, etc). Notice the trend? If you don’t, you’re a fool.” makes it clear why as a Jew, I have a nice gun collection. That ignoramus should realize that gun control in the USA was started by “Big Tim Sullivan,” a Tammany Hall politician in 1899. He should also realize that JPFO exists. Governor Cuomo is not Jewish, nor is Joe Biden, nor our president. Roosevelt who signed the NFA was Dutch. Nixon who signed GCA ’68 was a Quaker. But apparently, Ed has been drinking too much moonshine. He only sees Jews. Damn, Ed, Barry Goldwater changed his name, it was Goldwasser before it was Goldwater. Sober up, Ed.

  35. I cannot comment on the govt. work I have done. But I can say for sure that the fears of many gun owners about the actual ability of the govt. to get them is overblown. The feds have limited resources. Anyone reading through shotgun news or just going to a gun show with a camera can gather enough information to hold an ATF garage sale. They already have the names and plate numbers and info on anyone who could be a menace to them. But the point being left out of paranoid analyses is that most govt. agents are gun nuts themselves, shoot, collect, etc. At least this generation of agents in the field are only going to go after true terrorists. However, the less info they have is certainly better. I’ll give some analogies: We could buy fireworks of any type, block busters, etc. in NYC on the street, along with any kind of drugs and also get away with carrying handguns concealed up until Giuliani was elected. It was an open city. Well, he did away with crime by essentially searching everyone and enforcing every little ordinance. So the city got safe, but the rights of citizens to self defense also fell off the map, because you couldn’t carry. But to do that, he had to create an NYPD four times the size of the FBI, and he DID. It takes manpower to enforce all laws, stupid or not. The govt. currently has a list of all targets. You may be on that list, but it’s purely theoretical at this point. Currently, and for the foreseeable future, the only people who have to worry are terrorists and big time gangsters. I mean, let’s be real, 1 out of 20 people sneaked into the country and live in plain sight. Do you think they’re going to go house to house in America looking for hi cap mags?

  36. JJ, your statement that 80% of firearms owners support universial background checks is inaccurate–you are apparently getting your misinformation from the libral press. Universal background checks are a precursor to confiscation, as repeatedly proven by history.

  37. first off. anybody who uses stats like mister”80% of gun owners are for a national registry” take ur stats back to washington and stick em up ur MFing libral/communist arse. get off our site NARC. now second off im sure the government is behind the mass shootings. it obvious. 3rd know that Jesus is on his way and he is fukn pissed. so get ur mind made up ; light or dark. it is ur choice but dont wait. or ull be out of options. live free die free give love gain hope. the lord is with us. be affraid all who oppose.

  38. Yaknow? When y’all figure out who the friggin criminals are gimmee a call. Are y’all for real? Come on! Some of my best friends are excons tryin to make it right, and I’ll tell you what these boy’s are some of the baddest mofo’s you’ll ever meet, they’re also some of the most patriotic people I’ve ever met. Go figure, wiered eh? When y’all are ready, let me know, get organized first, commo, rally,and tactical, figure it out, unless y’all are just sheep in wolve’s clothing, like the bible say’s. Ain’t no law against sitting around talking, is there?

  39. How about NO COMPROMISES? I hope that is what the NRA is going to stand for. Do not acquiesce to UBC’s because once the government has that in place, there is no stopping them as they grind us through a finer and finer mesh until all our rights are stripped away.

  40. Few legal guns and many laws eguals high gun violence. Few laws and many guns eguals little gun violence. Few and quiet politicians equals little gun violence. Talking political hacks cause gun violence. Check the facts, it is factually accurate. Ban political hacks and promote public safety.

  41. Good info and good sentiments on all issues. My local bang stick store took a big deposit on an AR and cannot deliver but will not return the deposit, legal? Ethical?

    The manufacturer said six weeks but now says one year. Who has my $$$? Don’t get me wrong, I want the gun and will happily pay the balance.

    I fear what will happen WHEN they come for the guns. The USMC trained me not to allow guns to be pointed in my direction. We need to start recall elections on all anti 2amnt politicians, NOW! Vote no $$ for their programs or for their payrolls. Vote NO!

    When people who have no criminal record turn up in body bags the papers and media will say “they went crazy” and “had to be put dowm.”. Yet, the courts let convicted murders and drug dealers walk every day. Velkomen to Amerika, komrad. Heil Obama.

  42. Woody thanks for the video clip! Twenty years ago I join the military to support Americans way of life, over the years it’s been hard watching our country and many of it’s people on television, on the internet and in the media. Watching this short clip is a reminder there are still good Americans worth dying for.

  43. Got my new rifle lieing beside me now, the cosmoline cleaned off, barrel shiny new brite and action smoothed to where it’s almost… good… and will work on ‘perfect’ for a while yet.

    Asked my dealer if he’d been getting forms checks and copied by the BATFE lately. Nope, he said. In fact, he said they’d been more polite than usual, though they still didn’t have a sense of humor.

    Now I’ll go back and read the comments and mayhap comment some more.

  44. Correct me if i am wrong,but those of us with concealed weapons permits are probably already in there data base as well…yes? The entire situation irks me that the government again has a knee jerk reaction to incidents involving those that were mentally unstable to begin with. I am worried yes, but it is not going to stop me from purchasing those guns I feel i need for my home defense protection and recreational enjoyment. Thank you Mr Obama…..NOT!!!!!

  45. If this “Law’ is passed, the way it reads now, there will be no stopping this administration. Confiscation will begin before PBO is out of office.

  46. Oh I’m quite sure big brother has been documenting their data and having brain noodling sessions trying to compile ways to control this all which btw look at it, its way bigger than the active duty U.S. Military (count the numbers folks). And as a govt. employee Im gonna tell you the way you can all understand; “These are the people who pay $600.00 for hammers and toilet seats. Do you really think they can co-ordinate an effort on a national scale to disarm the citizens of this country who are btw now heavily armed? I think not because inter-departmental communication isn’t a government strongpoint. Ie: most of the time the right hand has no idea what the left hand is doing.
    Be vigilant over all enemies foriegn and especially domestic.

  47. Wow! That video was astronomical, my dad would be proud,to tell you the truth, it brought tears to my eyes, For about the past year, I’ve been thinking I’m fairly alone in this FIGHT, Thanks man.

  48. Μολὼν λαβέ
    Pronounced “Moh-lone Lah-Veh”.
    Correctly translated means “When you come you might take them”.
    There is nothing definite about the outcome.
    It may also mean “we lost them all in a tragic boating accident”.
    Or even ” We sold them at the last gun show”.

    If they come they should be prepared to receive the ammunition first. I have spoken to several WWII vets lately that are of the same mind as the veterans of the latest conflicts (wars) are. There are simply too many gun owners in the USA that will defend the constitution and keep the oath they have taken for any registration, ban and/or confiscation to stand.

    Molon Labe

  49. Any body remember the “pieceful” gatherings in $hitcago last summer–the bigBlack buses rolled in from allover, storm troops were more than demonstrators and then they all pulled back out vanishing like the wind . A Florida demo put thru a bill funding 2
    facilities ,either of which can 24 hr run the entire operation of TSA . $hitcago was a “test” it may be possible . Any body care— FACT H. R.8 (Paul Ryan) was finished mid JULY 2012–,Bill was acted AUG 2012with WIDE By partisan support and sent TO King HARRY REID and put in committee (nothing Done) .During Campaign Romney accused of not having plan (HE SAID 5 POINT PLAN Ryan type) . Demo nomination Oblunder gave Eltoro poopoo Speech ,is nominated NO PLAN mentioned , after on tape, a female LIB reporter next to Gwen Awfull had blank stare (it does happen with truth ) when she blurted out Oblunder had NO PLAN MENTIONED at any time!! November election surprise he won ????? DEC 31 2012 “bottomless-pit-time, King Harries bunch discuss bill& vote to change it to “TAXPAYER RELIEF ACT OF 2012” .THAT IS THE ONLY CHANGE TO RYANS HR 8 Bill of AUG 2012—vote on JANUARY 1 !!! 2013 for UNCHANGED NOT ONE WORD BILL 89 TO 4 NO VOTES 3 no votes 4 no shows === 100 votes . WHO IS ELTORING US!!!??? ANY DOUBTS LOOK IT UP ON INTERNUT HR-8 now Public LAW 110-blahblah. They regularly Trample our GOD GIVEN SACRED CONSTITUTION , the same one ALL VETS SWORE TO . aaany doubt the only “Amendment THE SECOND ONE SHALL NOT BE ABRIDGED” is the one in their craw that is IN THE F–way !! I’M ’76 years old I LOVE MY COUNTRY MY GREAT GRANDDAD CAME THRU THE FRONT DOOR AND ON A VISA WORKED YEARS AS A “NORSKY_GERMAN” SLAVE TO BRING WIFE IN and became US CITIZENS with a funny brouge to his voice .THEY CAN

  50. It’s surprising to me all the people who believe the FBI already tracks us, the one who say we already have NICS check or would agree to increase background checks and stop the “gunshow loophole” are so comfortable and not suspicious of the government. The government, my insurance company or my doctor doesn’t needs to know if I own a gun. Records of NICS checks should be destroyed the day you pick your firearm up.

  51. I agree with #7, #11 and others above. I got several from others without paper trail. Never register is my motto to live & die by. I advise others to do the same no matter if laws are passed. Hopefully we can count on at least 50% of police and military to stand with us should it be necessary in the future – and unfortunately I believe it will within 4-12 years tops.

  52. I find it amazing that the American public has such little knowledge of the Bill of Rights section of the Constitution and that so many have not the intellignce to understand that the present regime is out to control registration of weapons and permits of owners so they can effect a totalitarian government that our founders so sorely feared. And thus wrote into the Constitution safeguards for the citizens of this nation to protect themselves from a government that would and has now usurped its Constitutional powers. Those in the elected offices of the US Senate, House, Executive and yes even the appointed Supreme Court have taken unto themselves popwers not allowed by the separation of powers and especially the rights of the legal citizenry and subverted them to the poi9nt that this nation is now in danger of such totalitarianism like the Nazi’s of 1935 Germany, the Japanese of the same period, the facist of the same era in Italy that were only brought down by a World War that slaughtered over 60 million persons before it was over and brought a semblance of freedom back to the modern world. It was not government that did this but patriotic citizens and responsibles humans who beleived that their governments should work for them and not bring about tryanny of dictatorships such as those and those that have sprung up since the end of WWII such as communist China, Iran, Iraq, Cambodia, Laos, North Korea, Indonesia, and the multitude of African nations who regularly slaughter thier own citizens just because of their religious and tribal connections. We have now in the most powerful office of this nation and the world a man who has thumbed his nose at the constitution that he has 4 times sworn to protect and defend and has done everything legally and illegally in his power to usurp. A man who has his whole life derided and detested that very same Constitution and the nation it protects. This is also a man who was brought up and indoctinated in the thoecracy of Islam whose very mandates are are in direct opposition of the ideology of the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution and mandates deception and lies to those not of the faith until such time its faithful can either convert the infidel or slaughter them and their families. Any individual who has followed and prescribed to Islam and its “bible” the Quran/Koran can not be trusted to be truthful in dealings with those not of the Islamic theocracy for it states in many places in that blueprint that it is not only their priviledge to the lies and deceit but their requirement as a true Muslim. The general population of this country is either to stupid or too lazy to obtain a copy and read for understanding and thus the general concensus that Islam is such a peaceful religion and even that it is a religion only which it is not. This includes the very elected self-serving (professional) “representatives” we have sent to DC.. Why should they read the small book called the Koran when they don’t even have the desire to read a 2700 pages bill of enslavement before they pass it in the dark hours of midnight on a holiday weekend and even have a DEMANDED call by the Leader of the House for passing it and THEN finding out what is included in the bill. the amer4ican public has prioven thier ignorance, stupidity, by relecting these same enslavering totalitarians over and over again. Sometimes for racial reasons, and sometimes because they truely beleive the totalitarian communist doctrine that mankind can produce a Utopia on the face of the earth. The Democratic Party has in fact become openly controlled by, without saying the words, the former American Communist Party of the 1890’s, and the Republicans have become Eunuchs due to their desire to maintain thier position of power, fully paid retirement and medical benefits unsurpassed anywhere in the world, and their eliteism. There is not even one today among them, even in the Supreme Court, that truely has accomplished or desires to accomplish their sworn duty of thier office. I dare even one to prove to me different!!! Because in my advanced years, my service in foreign areas in combat as a volunteer to serve my nation and its precepts of freedom and liberty of the individual, and studies of our founding before the government schools made it illegal to teach truth and where to find it, I do know the truth of this nation, its Constitution, its form of governing, and its sepraration of powers to insure that mob rule called democracy does not infringe on the God given rights of each individual. This nation and its Constitution have been the beacon of hope for all mankind throughout the world since its inception and recognition in 1789 and now is fallen into the very trap that our founders feared more than any foreign power which might invade. The 2nd Amendent of the Constitution, the second of the Bill of Rights has not a damned thing to do with hunting or sport shooting, but the right of each individual and/or groups of legal law abiding citizens to protect themselves from not only foreign invaders but their very own governing bodies when it subverts and abuses the precepts and ideologies set forth in that document written as the law to govern all citizens equally and especially those given the elected and appointed responsibility to make sure those freedoms and liberties continue. It follows the 1st because the 1st gives eacn citizan the right to public descent of rulings and government policies without fear of reprisal. And when that right is taken away by government geremandering and threat of force or imprisonment, the citizen, through the 2nd has the right to defend himself with force of arms that he abusive government would not hesitate to use on its citrizenry if it thinks the citizenry has not the weapons available for defense. Our citizenry has come to fear this Constitutional right and has become impotent by refusing to believe that the Constitution was written in that manner giving them that right. When this nation falls into the trap we are on the very rim of (and I truely feel that it will within the next 3 years), there will never again on the face of the mortal planet Earth be true freedom or liberty for any of mankind. Only the totalitarian slaughtering by governments ruled by the One World Order of those who still believe in those God given rights since he made mankind in his image. The form of gun control now and previously being touted by these wannabe dictators is tatamount to the very speech given by Adolf Hitler in 1935 when he announced to the starving, economically ruined German people (paraphrased), “Now we will be follwed by all other nations into a situation of peace and relief from danger because now we have total registration of all firearms to protect us from any wrong doers.” And the 2 years later his personal SS troopers confiscated all those registered firearms as he was invading neighbors with the help of another brutal murdering dictator Joseph Stalin. Even Hillary Clinton openly used a speech similar in her run for the US Senate in New York State. It is a deceitful lie to disarm the population so that when the martial law is announced and the government takes your home, your job, your business, your freedom, even your home for redistribution at the government’s whim. The One World Order totalitarins of centuries now culminated in the puppet organization, the communist dominated United Nations, has for decades been doing the same thing. From sending peacekeeping forces into dangerous areas with no arms, or arms with no ammo, or orders not to fire even in self defense but to run. To attempting to disarm not only citizens of every member nation, but the very defensive Armies of each member nation. Our society has become so perverse from the likes of the ACLU, the NAACP, ACORN, The American Communist Party, and the constant false reference to this nation as a democracy, that the original reason for this nation’s founding is no longer even known by its population but even deemed useless and archaic by the very personages who took a solemn oath (LIED) to protect and defend those precpets and that documant against all enemies, both foreign and DOMESTIC. 6 Nov 2012 sealed the fate of this once free nation and the pity is that far too many have no idea what they did, and those who did know think they will be rewarded with something other than slavery and/or death.

  53. What scares me, as should everyone else, is the even the thought of firearm confiscation. I have already decided that I will not have the rights given me by the second amendment be removed. With that in mind, any federal or state agent or a person of a third party will absolutely not be taking any of my firearms, ammunition, or the like. A peaceful forfeiture of my weapons is not an option; they will have to take them by force. I will leave bodies strewn across my lawn if need be. And while it may end up very poorly for myself, be it jail time or worse, that’s a risk I’m willing to take.

  54. I guess I don’t fully understand the ramifications of this, I was aware that when I purchased my first handgun when I turned 21 that I would have to pass a state mandated background Check. At that time I thought my name floated around several government databases and if all came back good I would be able to purchase my gun and take it home. I know these checks work because I seen it first hand, as I was purchasing my firearm I witnessed another buyer doing his check and shortly after his was called in the police arrived and picked him up on an outstanding warrant. As far as agencies picking up 4473’s I thought that if you were an FFL holder you are required to keep these forms for BATF in any case. Now that I have my CCW I’m not required to do a background check when I purchase so I must already be on a list.

  55. Don’t be paranoid people…..nobody will ever come for your guns. As sure as more gun laws won’t EVER have any effect on crime…..What is happening now is nothing new it’s all part of the “New World Order” that has been in the planning stages for many decades (Google the words if you dont believe it). we (americans) have been free for way to long for that to happen. NOBODY will ever take away our freedoms….that is a fact. So eat your dinner, watch TV and enjoy your kids (grand Kids). All this mass histeria is doing is….. making guns and ammo scarce and driving the prices thru the roof. I still believe in the premise of this country and will always own my guns !!! How about you ????

  56. What is wrong with the we the people today? The people of the greatest generation back in the ww2 day’s black or white or yellow or red or whatever would NEVER stand for the crap that’s going on right now what happened? Did I just fall off of a train,like in the twighlight zone, into a different reality? If my dad knew that this was what he was fighting for he probably would have jumped in front of a bullet, this is so sad to see this happening to the country my dad was so proud of, man you just don’t know. If this is what this country is going to become I hope I die in the fight.

  57. A friend with an FFL told me that firearms purchase records are required to kept for 21 years. I believe the NRA is now saying there are over 300 million firearms owned in the US. That probably doesn’t count the guns being used by criminals as there is really no way to know that number.

  58. guns in the hands of law abiding citizens have never been a problem. its the croupt an tryants dream of power an rule that have a problem with us being armed. if the gun grab works if they take one mazine or one make of gun they will have won because they will just come back for more till their dream of total dis arming us is complete. aline in the sand must be made an soon. we are being attacked on all sides. every thing this marixs does is to bring this nation to her knees so he can make it back into his dream of marixism an solalism.guns an the constition stands in front of him blocking his all hinges on the guns if they are taken then the constition falls because all of the constition is protected by us with them. all this is not about our children they could have been made safe long ago. but that would be making a statemen that guns do save lifes so the liberials idea of putting signs up free gun zone was but to tell the nuts where there was a killing nra went along with their idea.WE an WE along has to fix this cause WE sat an watched it happen an never did anything

  59. Big Government is making a habit of disregarding laws and regulations as they see fit. Try doing that yourself and see how fast you get fined or thrown into jail. Corruption is the rule of the day.

  60. I took my 3 yr old son to the Doctor today because of a lingering cough. One of the first questions we were asked by the nurse was if we had a firearm in the house. This really did happen two days ago. I am writing here for you all to be ready for it so it does not catch you off guard like it did me. I, like many on this site, have not been too concerned because confiscation seems like a long way to go from where we are today. Why is it acceptable to we the people that our government is collecting this data and linking this data to our SSNs which is already linked to my address, car and family members, and very soon to my face. All authority of the government of the United States was created by a Constitution that guarantees me the right to arm myself for the purpose of protecting we the people from government action that takes freedom, liberty or property without due process. With this purpose in mind, the government collecting data about who is and is not armed under the ruse of dispensing health care or anything else is dangerous and will lead to nothing good for liberty.

  61. Get ready y’all, there’s a storm abrewin, and as for y’all that just roll over for the king we didn’t need you anyway,ya cowards. My pop was a 30yr veteran fought in ww2 and Korea. It’ll be a cold day that I or mine Will roll over for the king, As William Wallace said I never swore my allegiance to him, I stand where my dad stood and am willing to die for it. And it just may be that I have to, even if I stand alone. I Will stand!

  62. The idea of the government knowing who has guns and what guns they posses frightens me. Whether these sales are through an FFL or private sales, why does the government need immediate access when do diligence and proper investigations would provide information for “criminal activities”. I don’t consider legal ownership of guns a crime or a reason for a national database. What reasons would the government need to track lawful guns especially ones that I may give to a family member or is handed down to me? After all, the majority of private gun transfers is between family and friends. I don’t know how these transfers fall within the preview of the commerce clause anyway. The reality is, the government only needs a list of lawful gun owners for confiscation and they can gather gun ownership lists in a number of ways including what I believe is the most disgusting, through your doctor. As I understand the doctor as part of his new job requirements will ask patients about gun ownership. (Clinton also tried this but did not have socialized medicine) I do not know if this information is applied to some form but if it is you now have gun ownership registration. If you think your medical records are private they are except I know of two instances where the government gleamed information from medical records and made unsolicited visits to offer welfare benefits. One case was a mother and her premature baby, while they were in the hospital were visited by health and welfare and offered food stamps. (The mother is college educated and makes 120,000 a year, not a welfare mom) where did they get the information? The second was a handicapped child and his mom, receiving a visit at their home from health and welfare unsolicited. Just a coincidence right? To me at least it seems like there is an all out assault on individual freedoms and a demonization of guns and gun owners by whatever means possible.

    The end result of legislation for gun control will ultimately cause the injury and death of more legal citizens who will be banned from having the tools they need to defend themselves. (High capacity mags and semi auto weapons(AR)or an outright ban).

    “A movie where only cops and military have guns —Schindler’s List—“

  63. Yes UBCk’s will create an easier listing than the 4473…but so is your credit card statement. Why do you think I have been buying weapon equipment in cash from individuals? What follows is a ‘hypothetical’ letter I wrote…and now am going to send to Feinstein and my own congressman. To be sure, it will likely put me on someones’ list but, Hell…they’ll get the information eventually, and actually already have it in a variety of forms…think about it.

    January 28, 2013
    The Honorable Janet Feinstein
    United States Senate

    Dear Senator Feinstein,

    By way of introduction, let me clarify that I am not a terrorist, a member of any standing militia, a felon, a scofflaw, nor a mental health patient. I am a post-graduate degreed professional, father of two legitimate children, and grandfather to four. I earn my own income, pay taxes, and vote as I see fit. I belong to no particular political party however, having long ago found the pompous, self-aggrandizing grandstanding circus from both main camps to be too distasteful to identify with. My only current affiliation, aside from necessary professional ones, is the NRA, which, by the way, does not always present in a manner I totally agree with either.

    There are a great many inferences to be drawn from available data regarding the possession of weapons both here and around the world. There is certainly no simple answer to the problem of needless violence, whether perpetrated with ‘assault-like’ weapons or with the myriad of other items capable of inflicting grievous injury.

    A quote, whose source I don’t recall, has merit here. “Just because you have the right to do it does not necessarily mean that it is right to do it”. I wish that phrase were more taken to heart by those who produce or do things for profit or spite that we really ought to know better than to do. Our world would likely be a better place if self-restraint trumped profit. That apparently is one of the curses of free enterprise and free expression as you in politics know all too well.

    I wanted to let you and similarly oriented ban extremists know that I am an armed citizen, as are tens of millions of others in this country. I also wanted you to grasp that I, like millions of others, shall not take well to misguided attempts to reduce the basic protections ensured by our constitution. While I hold no degree in anthropology, history, or political science per se, it is not difficult to observe the process of the emasculation of a given populations basic liberties by incremental legislative erosion. This has been done many times before; as I’m sure you must be aware. As a politician, you must certainly be expert at exploiting the moment. You must also have some facility at spinning the argument so that it appears we want this to happen and in fact are better off because of it.

    This is your time. The current administration has built an army of dependent followers who dare not bite back at the hands who hold the ‘free’ stuff (which of course ’we’ actually paid for). Fear is prevalent. You will ‘save’ us from looming disasters. Those of us who can pierce the thin veil of subterfuge cloaking your political agenda may not be able to awaken enough of the complacent to defeat you. But, if you should succeed in criminalizing my right of self-defense and take this country down the road towards disarmament of the people you should understand that there will be no Kristallnacht.

    That is a source of sadness to me. I do not doubt that hundreds if not thousands of enforcement personnel will refuse to honor certain enforcement directives. They will be aware, as are you, that your (our) government has already established the principle of disobedience to illegal orders as permissible and expected. Yet, there are legions of others who, either from ignorance, being fearful for their bread, or misguidedly bound by duty will blindly proceed with registrations, confiscations, and prosecutions. My true regret is that some of these may otherwise be my friends and not you personally, with an outstretched, grasping hand.

    I bear you no direct ill will senator. You would be welcome to come to my home to sit in debate about the merits of various topics, as long as you, like I would expect of any guest, don’t grab for anything that isn’t yours to take.

    I don’t really know you, just your politics of the moment. I would hope that you are merely misguided and not yourself controlled by larger forces. As with most other historical intrigues I expect it will be several decades before the ‘whole’ truth is pieced together, if it ever is.

    God bless whatever remains of the United States of America.

  64. A list was bound to happen sooner or later but I feel they will have a civil war on their hands if they go knocking on doors and thinking people are going to just hand their guns over I think they just might get the bullets first.

  65. The reality is that the government already has your names, and if they don’t know you now, they soon will. Computer database capabilities already allow marketers to create targeted lists based on buying preferences, subscription habits, credit card purchases, credit reports, even political affiliations. All that the government — or anyone for that matter — requires is to collate that data. And do you use email? NSA is already listening in. Ever have a firearms conversation by email? Do you have a concealed carry permit? Well, you’re definitely on a list. Ever bought a gun or gun part or ammo over the internet? Or with a credit card? Ever posted a pro-gun opinion in an on-line forum. Ditto. You can’t escape lists — they know who you are — but what you can do is to make sure that there are enough outspoken, politically active, and dedicated gun-owners on those lists that “they” think better of messing with us. Anonymity is no longer an option. Strength through numbers is the only real defense.

  66. I passed all background checks for my weapons and CCW license and I WILL NOT submit to further harassment by the Feds. My children will inherit my guns with or without the Gov’t “permission.”

  67. I have always been a law abiding citizen. I don’t even have a speeding ticket on my record. So when my government makes it illegal for me to own a gun, they will effectively turn me into a criminal. So what will I have to lose at that point? If they want me to be a criminal, so be it. The gloves will come off.

  68. This is bull, I do not think the government has the right to make anyone register a gun! How long after doing this till they start charging people to register guns? Also when seeing a dr. that dr. is held to uphold the dr. patient privaledge rule. how long before they force dr’s to release a patients personal information? This is going to far I have the right as a Native American to have a wepon for self preservation, the Government needs to but out!!

  69. As a California gun owner, I have already been background checked by the DOJ and actually I feel proud when I get to pick up my firearms, so that type of check doesnt really bother me as I am a good law abiding citizen. What I do see as a potential threat against my 2nd ammendment rights, is any attempt to seize or make us surrendor our firearms.I firmly believe that act in upon itself will be the spark that ignites a civil war, of millions of citizens, standing up for our rights and not yielding to illegal demands “made up” by the government. The Constitutions writings regarding the 2nd Amendment clearly state what our “Citizens rights” are, and we as good citizens should make a stand, the very first person, the very first time, our birth rights are infringed upon. Stock up on food, water, fuel, medicine, ammo, and make new friends.With so many people in law enforcement and military stating they will not take our guns, I think locally , those folks are our friends. The Government will probably fly over a bunch of Red Chinese to try and do the job, and I say, give em hot lead!. School shootings could be staged, drug a kid with LSD and give em a gun, Im quite sure that is not beyond the corruption “some” govt agents can do. Just my thoughts, I love my Country, I support a strong , people oriented Government. This is the Peoples country, not the Governments country. Keep it simple, keep it pure.

  70. Why would the Government need to collect the forms? Your info is submitted to the FBI or a state agency when they do the back ground check. The problem with coping forms at all the thousands of FFLs to compile a list of gun owners is it would take thousands of AFT Agent. I assume there are a few ATF Agents who believe in the Constitution and would blow the whistle on a program like that. See Fast and Furious. Now if you put a program in the computer that actually does the back ground checks that could be done by just a few people. Remember that California and several other states use their own system so you would need a mole in each of those States too. The more people involved the harder it is to that secrete. I do believe in a background check for all gun sales outside the immediate family and make it against the law for the Government to compile a list in any form from those checks with congressional over site. But in order for the checks to be effective all 50 states must be required to provide the FBI with ALL pertinent information and if you are denied there must be a reasonable appeal process within a reasonable amount of time.


  72. All you guys can blab all you want, but it will accomplish nothing. Being politically correct will turn this country into another Australia or UK. Take a look at the main gun grabbers (Boxer, Feinstein, Schumer, Lautenberg, Soros, Bloomberg, Motzenbaum, Kohl, etc). Notice the trend? If you don’t, you’re a fool. Those “people” should be the focus of our interest. The Russians didn’t catch on and in 1917, they paid for their ignorance.

  73. In 1996, my wife and I held a FFL for “hobby” purposes. That is, we limited our gun sales to family and friends. During a ATF inspection of our business, the ATF agent copied, by hand, the 4473 information on all of our “sniper rifle” sales. We had sold two M1-A supermatch rifles with 6.5 X 20 scopes and two Ruger model 77-V rifles with 6.5 X 20 scopes. The excuse was that these weapons could be used for assinations. Since then, we have gone out of business and all of our records are in the BATFE depository (and have probably been entered into the BATFE database of gun owners).

  74. I wrote my reps in Congress with a laundry list of what I do and do not support. I told them I supported strengthening NICS and filling in the gaps. Below is what I said about universal background checks:

    “I support universal background checks on private gun sales (not transfers) as long as they can be accomplished without the existence of a registry of law-abiding citizens who own firearms and without the need to go through a dealer/retailer with an FFL. Prospective criminals, criminals on record, and their accomplices already avoid the NICS because they don’t want a record of their gun purchase/possession, so without a registry, it’s hard to see how this will have much impact on criminals obtaining guns. Nevertheless, I can support it per the qualifications addressed above. The background checks should be referenced against lost or stolen weapons and criminal records. They should be handled and destroyed in the same manner that NICS background checks are handled and destroyed”

  75. We have your names and a list of each one of your guns. With the new law passed you are required to turn in all guns to the federal government under the no gun law. Law will be enforced with 10 year jail sentence. All guns are accepted at your local law enforcement agency. Act now, you have until the end of the year to comply.
    Don’t think it can happen, think again. History has proven that strict government laws against the people lead to war.

  76. I will comply with no unconstitutional law against the 2nd ammendment and will stand with real patriots in defense of our God given liberties.

  77. TO ALL KNOW THE 2ND AMENDMENT IN TRUTH Check out the BATTLE OF ATHENS, Then you can and will understand our rights to bear arms

  78. Those of you that think 80% of gun owners support this, think again, or better yet, read the comments and decide for yourself if that supposition is correct. I will not register any gun not already required to be so. I have dozens that were bought via private sales, there is no record, and they will not be registered,I don’t give a crap what this goatfornicating muzzie president decrees.

  79. I don’t think universal background checks will be any worse than the instant background checks we now have to endure. The FBI could very easily keep a record of every gun buyer that now gets checked with the instant system. So far, through sources that are readily available from inside the FBI and ATF this supposedly is NOT being done.

    The ATF and FBI are not like the KGB in that they are still relatively open to what is going on inside. Both of the agencies are made up of people, many of whom could be considered to be loyal Americans and I believe if anything illegal was going on we would most likely know about it.

    The stories I have heard about the ATF getting FFL holder records are from the gun shops that a number of guns used in crimes were traced to. If you consider the 140,000 or so FFL holders, that is really a drop in the bucket.

    I know for a fact that when a dealer retires or goes out of business the ATF automatically is supposed to obtain all the records that FFL holder has at the time. Those could very well be used to form some type of illegal registry, but sources have said this is NOT being done at this time. That is not to say the records could not be used in a manner similar to a registry. It is all a matter of semantics and what a database in some govt. computer is called.

    I think UBCs could pose to be a problem but it depends on the language the law is written in and how that will be enforced (this is always the case for any bill or bill that becomes law). That’s where we all have to be diligent and pay very close attention to every law that could affect the RTKABA.

    I believe that background checks for ammunition and magazines would be foolishness and a waste of resources and do no good what so ever. This would also act to trace and track every single gun owner just like a GPS chip implanted in their bodies. This better not be done and we should fight to prevent that.

    As far as confiscation is concerned, if you watch Glenn Beck, he says to become friends with your local Sherriff, and get the phone numbers of law firms that will defend against ant illegal confiscation that might take place. In other words, if they show up at your door, and demand that you turn them in; just say “arrest me”. This might work for a limited, isolated confiscation like in a county perhaps. However, if the confiscation were nationwide, do you really think they would bother to ask you?

    My guess would be that if they knew where every gun was located in the U.S. and they wanted to do a complete confiscation, they would probably break down doors and search for the guns and just take them. They would already be doing something that is highly illegal in the confiscation itself. What makes you think they wouldn’t just take them? You say your guns are in a safe? No problem – they have locksmiths. You could stand there, hold out your arms for the cuffs, and say, “Arrest me, you can’t take my guns!” and they would say, “Get out of the way, dumbass!”

    There are big logistics problems with a nationwide confiscation. The biggest problem is: How do they confiscate 20 million guns (a very small conservative estimate) without notifying all the other gun owners that they are doing that? How many state and local police would do the bidding of the feds? My guess is not many, especially in conservative states.

    Once started, the word would get out very quickly even if they shut down the internet and phone lines. We still have ham radio, CB radio and even the pony express if we needed it! The gun owners that haven’t been reached yet (probably 80% of them) could now hide what they don’t want to be taken. It would fail to meet its objectives in the first few hours or days.

    If the federal government actually tried to do a nationwide gun confiscation, we would know immediately that they have been keeping an illegal registry and we would also know that they may be planning something far worse for us than just taking our guns. Concentration camps are at least one possibility. Who knows what they capable of doing if they are capable of something as extreme as a nationwide confiscation?

    I am 100% certain that if a total nationwide confiscation were tried by the Federal Govt. – that would spark civil disobedience on a scale that most Americans cannot begin to imagine. I am not saying it would be smart for people to take up arms against the govt. I am saying that it would be inevitable. I believe it might lead to an all-out civil war with the combatants being: the federal government fighting the people.

    I doubt if many Federal troops would fire on civilians. I know I wouldn’t- but that’s just me. I would bet that many units would be on the peoples’ side. This includes National Guard air units that would be a match for any NATO aircraft that might be a threat. In any case it would not be good for the country – we can be certain of that. That said, the government would have to be fools to even think about doing anything like that, but the words,” No one could be that stupid” doesn’t seem to apply any more.

    1) Saturate the NICS with un-needed requests for background checks so that there are 5X as many requests as guns.
    2) Demand from your Congressmen and Senators that anyone who loses their civil liberties be required to do so ONLY through a court of law and adjudication of “Unfit”, “Incapable”, “Incompetent”, or “Danger to Self/Danger to Others”
    3) Demand from same that either a person has paid their debt to society, or they have not… if they are released from jail, they should be entitled to all the rights and privileges of a free person, or, they should still be paying their debt to society.
    4) Demand from same that ALL who have proved they are incapable of living among civilized human beings be locked-up like the animals they are.
    5) Demand from same that the firearms dealer licensing fees collected by the Gov’t be used to set-up free one-day “walk-in” training clinics for gun handling, safety, and legal/policy for anyone who wants to attend, and require NO sign-in or registration to attend

  81. What bothers me the most and history will bear me out. Every dictator, tyrant, president for life always start the same, my God how can we forget the attrocities commited to a population when the weapons are taken and I have no doudt that that is the ultimate plan of the regime in power. The road to domination has always started with registration, then confiscation,then domination, and finally as seen through out
    history the purges that eliminate once and for all any resistance.. Recent history for those who have forgotten Stalin purged millions and after the Bolshevik Revolution he had the top brass purged as in his thinking he said if they did it once they can do it again, so he eliminated the potential threat, Germany did the same, and many others have followed this tried and true method of mass control, Cuba did it under Castro… These plots are incidious and must be stopped and this country has to go back to the constitution..Feinsteins bill exempts all Government officials from any ban as they view their value in society greater than yours or your family. I have served this great country for appx 28 years in the armed forces and took the oath that polititians seem to have no trouble violating, we who served are on the list as potential terrorist by TSA…I was in Uniform and the TSA pulled me out of line to walk in the machine that sniffed fo powder residue and explosives I was picked out of a large crowd and noone else got that treatment. Times are not good as this is just the beginning and the people are now becoming Sheep.
    Rogelio Hermosillo

  82. I keep going over in my mind the possibility of Child Protection Services removing our children from our homes due to “dangerous living conditions” (e.g. guns). This could be a deal breaker for many.
    Personally, I would throw my guns in the river before giving then to to government; though I have made other arrangements.
    Finally, when our Concealed Carry Permit expires; what then?

  83. Sad, what is happening in this country under Obummer, but Americans voted for this left wing ,Socialist, so expect the worse to come when it comes to gun ownership.
    This invasion is the first of many steps to a bigger program by those that want a One World Order, stay strong, and let it be known that we refuse to give our rights up,fall prey to Satan and government forces at hand.

  84. If you think this is new, read the book “ENEMIES FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC, by
    Matthew Bracken. especially the ATF making copies of form 4473. Although this
    is a work of fiction, it could very well not be?

  85. – 90%, 70%, 80%, please stop with the “facts” about increased background checks. Unless everyone goes down and votes today we really don’t know the percentages that actually support this. We know the media wants us to believe everyone else is supporting it, so maybe folks will join the herd and sign yes on the line also. Not me!
    -Bottom line tracking is a necessary step to confiscating, who’s going to have there name, address, DOD, SSN in the data base, criminals or law abiding citizens? Who will they confiscate first? I as a law abiding citizen should not be impacted by any regulations/laws designed to impede criminals.
    -Keep your Federal government small, unfortunately it may be to late for us.

  86. Ok, lets get real. If anyone actually thinks that the govt does not have you on a list, you are either totally naive, ignorant or otherwise mentally impaired, and we should take your firearms from you now!!! The govt has kept this data for years and years, how do I know?, Common sense. The govt does what governments do, they track things, they keep an eye on things and they try and stay one step ahead. They have your prints from the service,they have them from certain jobs,they have your prints etc from CCW, they have had the forms you filled out for purchases, from credit card, from telelphones, from banks,e tc etc, the NCIS checks and other data, every time you made a firearm purchase. Do you really think they erase all the data from the NCIS checks???, just because they say they do!!?? Please, Hell-o McFly?! I moved from PA to AZ 8 yrs ago. I went to get my drivers license in AZ, they run your old license. The woman said to me, you have been pretty good, the only thing on here is a speeding ticket from NJ? I said, NJ? I have not been in NJ for 20 yrs or more??….guess what…ticket data was 37 yrs old!!!!! They keep everything! That data was supposed to be gone after 10 yrs….yeah, right….who is kidding who. So, when you think you are going to hold out against these idiots in charge, think again. They have all the advantages, all the resources,all the skills needed, and more than enough wannabees to do what they are told.

  87. I agree with Bill.

    I think an American Congress who willfully allows the election of a Kenyan born citizen to the office of president of the United States of America should be arrested and put under armed guard until their trial has concluded.
    Then they should be sent to Guantanamo bay Cuba and be subjected to water boarding daily.

    Comment by Bill — February 2, 2013 @ 8:00 am


  89. There are two problems with checks, and they are both serious. The first is that the Gov’t can use background checks to establish unreasonable pass/fail criteria, and thus use the system to deny Citizens their rights. The other problem is as mentioned in the article, that background checks may end up as registration.

    Not too many people have a problem with ensuring that firearms don’t end up in the hands of criminals or the deranged. However, to ensure that that the background check doesn’t enable the Gov’t to make what amounts to a registry of what firearms legal citizens own, would require careful design of the system. They aren’t proposing a carefully designed system and I certainly don’t trust that they will. They would have to conduct the check on the buyer without knowing what he bought, or even if he ended up buying. We have to prevent the Gov’t from compiling registration lists.

    Registration is one of those ideas that sound good at first, but when you think about it don’t make a lot of sense. Here’s what I mean: A law-abiding gun owner is not a threat to anyone, so in that case registration serves no legitimate purpose at all. If that same citizen develops a mental illness or just flips out and goes on a shooting spree, gun registration won’t matter. If the legal owner decides to take up crime and use firearms in his crimes, he certainly won’t use his own legal, registered firearm. He will get an illegal, untraceable one. Again, registration won’t help. Finally, let’s say the legal, registered firearm is stolen. The registration only ties the gun to the legal owner, not to the thief and certainly not to the ultimate end user that perpetrates crimes using that gun. Again, registration serves no purpose. Criminals tend to remove the serial numbers from weapons they use anyway.

    As I see it, registration sounds good, but reality is that it won’t accomplish any of the objectives that its proponents claim it will. On the surface, John Q. Public hears the call for registration and it sounds reasonable to him – because he hasn’t thought the process through very well. Fact is, there isn’t a legitimate reason for registration. Its only purpose is to violate the Citizens’ right to privacy by keeping tabs on what he/she owns. And the only reason that the Gov’t would want to keep tabs on what Citizens own is to confiscate or otherwise harass the legal gun owner.

    A well designed background check is one thing, but they are proposing a vague requirement that gives the Gov’t far too much latitude. We should oppose any Government requirement that enables them to create a registry, whether they claim they are doing so or not. If you make the data available to them, you have to assume that they *will* misuse it, tomorrow if not today. This is not paranoia, it is prudence.

  90. We’re going back to pre WW2 Nazi Germany. They will use these lists to kick in our doors and remove our guns, “For the safety of the goverment and it’s citizens”. Then the crimenals will run rampant, and we will have no recource, but to be a victims. Then the prisons will fill up the honest citizens trying to defend thier property and families, by whatever means they have. When are they going to get it right, ASSULT is a behavior, NOT A THING!!!

  91. I agree with much of what Mark Lord says (above). I don’t want to see universal background checks, because it is a step on the slippery slope to gun confiscation, but, if it does get enacted, then the safeguards he mentions must be enacted as well.

    (This, even though there will be violations of these safeguards…)

  92. Doesn’t anyone in the U.S. Government get the wording of the 2nd Amendment, “Shall not be infringed”. If Congress or the President tries to enact legislation to change this right of the people then they are in violation of the Constitution and should be arrested and held for trail for the act of treason against the United States. We the people still rule this country not these imbeciles who have been voted into office by idiots who are waiting for a hand-out. Wake up America before it is to late if not already! If they come for my guns or my Constitutional rights then I will defend them against enemies both Foreign and Domestic!

  93. The America many of us were raised to love is imploding. The America many of us served in uniform is fading away. The respect other countries once had for The Stars and Stripes is vaguely present, as is the fear of our ability as a Nation to respond militarily with decisiveness and overwhelming superiority. Our military is willing, but many of our top politicians and officials are weak. Despite being American soil, our embassies are targeted and we sit back idly and permit our Citizens to be attacked and in some cases, brutally murdered. Rhetoric, excuses and deception continue rather than those who should take responsibility stepping up. It is heart breaking to watch this happen before our eyes and have no recourse except to expunge our elected officials from office through the voting process only after they have done significant damage to our individual liberties and our Countries ability to remain a free society. Left wing socialists like Mr. Obama and his puppet hatchet man Mr. Biden, California types like Feinstein and Polosi, and the Gestapo tactics in New York depriving the lawful gun owner’s of their personal freedom under the 2nd Amendment continue. The liberal news media is not helping either. They sensationalize crimes with deliberate misleading headlines or have those with personal agendas air their own spin on life rather than the truth. The Morgan types and such, who are not American Citizens hiding behind OUR 1st Amendment to bash OUR 2nd Amendment rights. When OUR Citizens seek to have them removed from our shores via petition, they are left to continue because their views compliment those of the current administration. If those views countered that vision, the story might have had a different outcome. But then, we shall never know. It appears some in power seek the elite to rule, to have our beloved Country fail financially, class warfare rage and this Country failing to flourish. It happened in the former Soviet Union, so why not here? The antics we are watching are paramount to treason. I have little doubt the McCarthy Era antics are in full swing. Universal Background Checks is a disguise, a misdirection to deceive the population on the true purpose. The political arm is collecting data on those who arm themselves against what Thomas Jefferson warned or to identify those who may be perceived to be a threat against Government policies. This is what I gleam from the covert and overy collection of YOUR personal data to include firearms ownership. Federal agencies being used against its own Citizens is not a new concept. Not in America or by other former regimes. NVD, KGB, Gestapo and those agencies WE THE PEOPLE employee for OUR National security start out by collecting data on the populace…knowledge IS power. So, don’t be so naive. Educate yourself. Contact your Senator and Congressmen. Tell them you do not support the policies being enacted and if they choose to support them, they need to look for a new career. As Dylan sang “The Times, They Are A Changin’.” Believe it! I wish you, WE THE PEOPLE, safety and prosperity. And, for our beloved Country, survival and strength to endure the uncertainty which lies ahead. America is not a location on a map. America is WE THE PEOPLE. And, I say NO to universal background checks (or a National gun registery)!

  94. 1. Any firearm you have in your possession that does not have a “paper trail” hang on to them. 2. If you dont reload…learn how and keep all your empty brass cases as they may be reloadable when and if the time comes. 3. Then stock up on primers, powder and bullets as they become available again; loaded ammo too. 4. Be careful what you say in your e-mails and posts regarding your “stash”. 5.Stick together as Gun Owners wether its just shotguns or whatever, dont knock another gun owner because he likes only muzzleloaders or only black rifles. We are all in this fight together and must stick together. 6.Do not comply with any “unlawful program” that is against our Constitutions 2nd ammendment. LIVE FREE OR DIE!

  95. why does everyone assume that the FBI doesn’t keep logs of all the background checks? when there’s a shooting in the news how else do you think else are they able to get the legal status of the firearm used, when it was purchased (and from where) in a matter of hours after a shooting? If 90% of checks result in sales, that’s a very big list.

  96. Ok I see a few different points on this.

    1) I think this is getting blown WAY out of proportion. The gov’t is NOT going to take away our guns!!! It’s the 2nd amendment. Now they can try to restrict somethings. But as seen in the past ( asult ban of the 90’s ) it did NOT work. I’m all for more in depth back round checks. Because I know I WILL pass it.. WILL YOU????

    2) I think gun makers and ammo makers have something to do with all this propaganda. Everything they sell is going like hot cakes!!! they are making a killing!!! Hell I even profited form it. I trade a AK worth about 350 for a 1911 worth around 850. Thanks guys!!! My AK was worth something!!! ( that and the one i had was a rarer one ).

    3) I’m embarrassed to be called a REDNECK!!!! I was going to go to a gun show in Lewisville Tx. But the line was around the building. But it was the PEOPLE going in and coming out that made me not go in. And there was some kind of sign with obama’s face on it with a line thur it. You could see it in there eyes… “THAT DAMN OBAMA IS NOT GOING TO GET MY GUNS… OVER MY DEAD BODY… ” And I’m sure some of you that read this will be insulted by this. You people are NOT REDNECKS!! YOU ARE HILLBILLY’S!!!! I DON’T CARE. He is NOT out to get our guns. ( I did NOT vote for him eater time ) But come on. If you wait 6 months to a year, all this will blow over. We may not be able to by a NEW 30 round clip. BUT THERE IS PLENTY OF USED ONES!!!!!

    Yes I AM a gun owner. I will be to the day I die. But unlike some people I’m not worried that they will come take them all away.

    Well that is my option. LIKE IT, LOVE IT, OR HATE IT.

    James in Dallas Tx

  97. The government took away our rights after the 1st congress met, but like all else we don’t know that. God help us as we fall into this man made hell. I feel so sorry for my grand child’s future being run by a bunch of money hungry people, who expect a check for producing NOTHING!

  98. If You Want Peace Prepare For War and We the Legitimate / Legal Firearms Owners Of America Are At WAR. Just look at your World History and you will see that every want to be Dictator started with registration /confiscation of all firearms/ weapons, this new trend started by the establishment (obama and his cronies) is just the first step in many they will take to make the average US Citizen a Subject not a truly free man / Citizen!

  99. I realize that the government is NOT supposed to keep lists of who owns what firearms. But, I have personally assumed that these laws have been ignored for years. At least, since Barry has occupied the White House. I have no evidence of this intrusion of our privacy. I just distrust the government with respect to following all their own rules. I think that we are being set up for confiscation of our legally owned guns. All my firearms were purchased the right way, with all of the paperwork filled out. I am starting to regret this honesty and adherence to these policies. With great regret and remorse, I predict that we will see more of these mass murder tragedies. In order for the Socialists to disarm the population, the masses must be convinced that their safety is at risk. I would recommend that we all make an effort to purchase multiple firearms from private owners before this National Background Check is law. But, since the prices for guns dramatically increased due to paranoia and greed, few will be able to take advantage of this evasive measure. God Save The Republic!

  100. I got my first gun at age 10, a 12 gauge Damascus barrel double and have had guns ever since , am now 65. I didn’t have a social security number until I was required to when I joined the service. I was raised in a family of 16 we shot game for food with no regard for season or government regulation, hunger dictated..The whole gun control thing is just another attempt to track and control citizens..It will happen one way or another. The second amendment for example, its reasoning,and freedom of speech;it is illegal to as a group discuss enacting the 2nd amendment by another law. I do not know of any rights that exist without first obtaining government approval prior to exercising them, getting permits, paying fees. and making it difficult and serves to track who is doing what. This debacle has if nothing else or should serve as a wake up call to overall tracking and control of you.

  101. This is BS. If you buy your guns legally you do it from a reputable FFL. Therefore there is some kind of record only if your gun shows up at a crime scene.

  102. Universal back ground checks and registration. Didn’t Germany and Italy have this just prior to WW2. History records how well this worked out. Imprisonment for not turning over your weapons plus: who knows what happened to offenders once in custody. Then there is the slaughter of 6,000,000 innocent people that were left defenseless and at the tender mercies of an overbearing government,(sound familiar)?

  103. I would like to address comment #7. In Dec 2011 my house was broken into, my entire collection of firearms were stolen. Reported it to the police, they wanted serial numbers of the weapons. Before I proceed I must first apologize for not being a “responsible gun owner”. I have owned “guns” since the age of 18 and never had a weapon taken (stole) from me I did not record the serial number. That is now not a problem, have serial numbers, photographs, and a complete description of all weapons and accessories on my insurance policy. Anyways, back to the situation. Since I just purchased several weapons (prior to the thief) I could go to the gun dealer and obtain the SNs of those weapons. Went to the dealer and explained the situation, was told that they no longer have the records. He (the salesman) stated that the ATF have came into the store and took the records and he gave me the telephone number for the ATF. Called them, was told that I have to submit a request in writing for that information. So here is the two questions:
    1. Was the gun dealer “blowing me off” and did not want to spend the time to look up the records and just wanted the sale without the service (this dealer is the largest gun dealer in Columbus)
    2. Did the ATF really “take” the records and if they, if they did, why and what did they do with the data on those records. I thought that these background/buy (Form 4473) were held by the gun dealer and not to become a part of a government database.

  104. Do not brandish or display your gun in public. It may confuse people and it may be a crime. Police and others may think an airgun/airsoft gun is a firearm…

    Seems sheeple are scared of anything. Pissed me off to see this in an add for a BB gun. We own, shoot, reload, and enjoy our guns with my whole family. We don’t plan to stop what we enjoy. Impeach this thug !
    The four American deaths in Benghazi are a direct result of decisions and actions by President Obama that undermine the national-security interests of the United States.
    I won’t forget…I have lost friends in conflicts recently. And for what I say.

  105. Sounds’ like mark is for gun control. I don’t think it is wright what is going on people killing people and kids;but there is something we need to do to keep this from happening. If they get this universal back ground check you will see more FBI agents coming in to people houses and getting their guns and we will be left with nothing. It starts here. UN is wanting USA to sign a gun ban treaty for small arms. If they do they will take the world over one world government just like (Hitler) tried but they are doing it political.They have been after the us for a long time to sign this treaty that give them the right to come in your house and take every fire arm you got. that is why they are doing this so they know who has what and where to go. This is just a start to cover up what they are real doing. I believe that there is something bad is come around the corner.

  106. Let’s face it; our government is capable of anything. If it can illegally run guns into Mexico, it’s a sure bet the government doesn’t give much of a hoot about our rights. As long as this lawess administration is in charge, and as long as the present criminal Att’y. General is in office, NOTHING will be done to curb unlawful action by the FBI, BATFE, or any other agency. The government has been carrying on a Nazi-like program of disinformation about guns for years. It unlawfully copies 4473s and nothing is done about it, it strong arms dealers into making straw sales on the strength of a note from them that it’s ok, it attempted to make a false case for more gun control laws by showing how easy Mexican cartels get guns from the US – even though it was the BATF that did it. The truth is, I’m sad to say, that our government has become corrupt; the ends justify the means. Wee losing our country…………

  107. Why should every law abiding citizen pay dues for an inadequate health system? We can never allow gun registration or allow a dictator to regulate the sale of small arms between family members or individual to individual. Every American needs to join the NRA and GOA as soon as possible.

  108. Before 1968 we had no prohibited catagory and could mail order and recieve firearms plus buy in other states. The felony restriction does not affect criminals in the business of crime but hurts some one who has gone straight. What a gun owner does everyday in Georgia or Vermont is a felony in NJ, NY and MA.

  109. They’ll never get mine without a fight. I believe most feel the same, and law enforcement knows it. It’s best to leave well enough alone, we’re on law enforcements side. Any absurd changes will be ignored, by me for one.

  110. How does the FBI determine who can own, or apply for a concealed gun permit? How about the law-abiding citizen who has had a minor misdemeanor and never a convicted felony?

  111. There is no doubt in my mind that Obama is doing this to find the gun owners of the US and later confiscate the guns. If one would simply look into the agenda the communist party has had for this nation, and then look at Obama’s agenda they are exactly the same, point by point. Also the same people are involved with both agenda’s.

  112. Having taken an interest in home security and target shooting several years ago, and having received a CCW permit…I could see the need for requiring new gun owners to pass a one day firearms training class to get a gun permit, much like what is Required to get a drivers license. Once I buy a firearm, it gets a tag much like cars do for property taxes. The government now has a record of me as a licensed gun owner and the serial numbers of the weapons I own. If I misuse the gun or it gets stolen…the authorities have a record of me and its serial number in case it ends up at a crime scene. I realize our right to be arms does have a responsibility. The above scenario will provide for every gun owner to have minimal firearm training which would be a good idea for all…just like learning how to drive a car. I’m not crazy about the government having a list of me and my firearms…I know it could be a setup for future confiscations and penalties. But any totalitarian government could take away guns, cars, food, etc as they already have our social security number and tax information.

  113. I think an American Congress who willfully allows the election of a Kenyan born citizen to the office of president of the United States of America should be arrested and put under armed guard until their trial has concluded.
    Then they should be sent to Guantanamo bay Cuba and be subjected to water boarding daily.

  114. Give up ANY freedom or right and see how “easy” it is to get it back. How many times have you heard of “archaic” laws on the books rescinded much less “oops we were wrong” laws deleted. Ethanol was a great idea..right? of course with the drought and all it couldn’t have anything to do with food prices.
    Think the 20,000 plus gun laws are all doing there intent?

  115. The way insure ATF is not collecting an illegal database is have them regularly audited by a knowledgeable independent firm.

  116. A requirement for manditory universal background checks (MUBC) at minimum is a selective ban, not on firearms, but on individual ownership of firearms. This will be the most effective (from the government’s perspective) established. The government is not concerned about what criminal elements own firearms, they know 1. they can not directly control them, and 2. that by their action they have tools in place to use against them if they so desire. What a MUBC allow is for selective bans based not on the weapon as that in itself is irrelevant, but on the individual. On the surface the idea is shiny and new, to those not thinking through the concept fully, to those that do not respect the Constitution and/or that pesky Second Amendment this all sou Ds wonderful and somehow lifesaving. Put aside the idea of a government most already don’t trust having a list of all owners of firearms for a moment (if that doesn’t scare you out of your mind you really need to go read some history). What is being proposed is every legal transaction of a firearm made (remember the government doesn’t care about the illegal ones and never will) will be brokered by a bureaucrat. Stop for a moment and think about that. We now live in a world where the White House can change the definition of a law on its own before the law makes it to the Supreme Court for review without Congress (I refer here to the change in the birth control mandate of the Affordable Care Act). So what criteria exactly will be required to own or purchase a firearm? If you are late on your taxes will someone be at your door knocking (or maybe a battering ram will be used). If you have too many traffic tickets will you be denied a purchase? If you are a Vet diagnosed with PTSD, will you have to surrender your grandfather’s shotgun? If you have a stressful life and are prescribed xanax will your wife have to surrender her 38 special she keeps in her purse? Will you unknowingly overnight become a fellon because of some typographical error at the DMV or local Courthouse and have you weapons collected and destroyed before you can find resolution?

    In a free society made of free people the only way for a tyrannical government to take control of is by somehow subjugating the those that are free. This is yet another element in the effort to “subjugate the population through criminalization”.

  117. Very simple–get rid of Obama, he is an illegal alien, not supposed to be president, so why is he still here? With him gone, most of our problems would be gone, because any law he put it could be thrown out–this is the United States–we can do this.

  118. How come attorney general Eric Holder and the Kenyan Obama and his administration haven’t been arrested for illegally running assault weapons across an international border(Mexico), and putting those “Assault weapons” into the hands of the very violent Mexican drug cartel?
    These defacto employees of the Taxpayers committed several “Felonies”, yet, NOTHING has been done to these criminals for their part in promoting international GUN VIOLENCE that helped to get an American border patrol agent killed.
    Eric Holder armed the very criminals he is sworn to protect against.

    Yet, these Felons are demanding that LAW ABIDING American citizens submit to Gun registration and eventual Confiscation?

  119. Yes i was told by a dealer in person that the Dept. of Homeland security came into his shop and requested the paperwork for all AR type firearms that he had sold. This was in December of 2012.
    He is licenced as a dealer in fully automatic weapons, class 3 i think is the category.

  120. GOA is a frontgroup for anti gun activists. This report is a shell game. They want gun owners worried about lists (and that’s easy to get people worried about) so that their attention is away from what the haters really want: total black rifle bans and normal capacity magazine bans. The gun ban nuts don’t care if there is no list because the NICS makes such a list possible down the road. Right now they want the bans. Beware GOA!!! They are not our friend!

  121. I am confused. For every gun that I have ever purchased I thought the dealer was registering my gun. I thought the serial number was on file in the event my gun was stolen or used in a crime that it could be traced to me. I do not want the government to have any more information than it already has, but I thought they already had the information in question. Am I wrong?

  122. I am a fairly new gun dealer (less than a year). The ATF Rep that visited me when I started said that was a myth then. Records must be kept for x number of years by FFL holders but there is no database. According to him they will spot check the records but will not copy every one of them. I hope this is not true because that will make a very long day to have to be there with the ATF.


  123. How come these politicians who demand gun control are surrounding themselves with private, well armed security? How come these politicians send their children to schools that are protected by armed guards while they do everything in their power to deny the individual citizen a right to personal self defense?
    Why is it that many politicians have concealed weapons permits?
    Why is it that Michael Bloomberg won’t give up his security that surrounds him everywhere he goes?

    I’ll tell you why.
    It’s because they don’t want to be a victim of Tyranny anymore than we do.
    They don’t want to allow some thug to molest them or their families.
    They want the right to protect themselves from aggressors.

    It’s time for Americans to demand that this Defacto government back off and leave our 2nd amendment alone before “you” start something where there can be no good outcome.

  124. These are facts. The FBI has had their eyes on us ever since they started the registering process in the gun stores. One big example is to look at the UK. and the 1997 hand gun ban in the UK. For them this all started in the early 1900’s. The 1997 hand gun act, with a few specialised exceptions, all firearms in the United Kingdom must be licensed on either a 5-year[32] firearm certificate (FAC) or a shotgun certificate from the police. All approved firearms have to be registered there. The government is trying to make the US similar to that, with a close relationship with the UN. In 1911, Turkey established gun control. Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated. China established gun control in 1935. They had their own holocaust in 1948 to 1952. Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

  125. Yes, registration and then confiscation. But, tell me, if they investigate you, look at my comments, will I then be targeted as a gun owner? Are they going over YOUR records? Unfortunately, businessmen only care about business, and they would turn in their own mothers for a profit, supposed principles be damned!

  126. Unfortunately, background checks are necessary in today’s world. As long as Federal and State governments continue to let violent criminals out of jail and allow dangerous mental defectives to live among us, we will be plagued with shootings, knifings, etc. I don’t see this changing in the near or even distant future.
    Progun senators and representatives will have to make a deal on this. They should insist on the following:
    1. A warrant should be a requirement to copy a 4473
    2. An electronic instant system should be a totally “blind” system without the possibility of keeping records. FFL dealers should have access and individuals selling a private firearm should be able to get a onetime code number for access. The system should offer the user no other information except a red light for “do not sell”, a yellow light for “do not sell without further authorization” and green light for “sell”. If a red light comes up, FFL dealers should notify the local police.

    3. A review board needs to be available to any buyer that is denied and an independent review board should be elected to make sure no records are being keep.

    4. A law with strong penalties should be enacted for any agency found to be keeping illegal records.

    I realize this will be hard to do, but we need to negotiate something in return, because our “enemies” are not going to allow nothing to pass. A national carry permit might also be a bargaining chip.

    I don’t like any of this, but I think a background check will pass, but we need to stop the obvious goals of the current administration of registering all gun owners for future action.

  127. I think any infringements against the 2nd Amendment and the Unalienable rights of Americans to keep and bear arms should be of tremendous concern.
    The American people have a GOD given right to protect themselves from Government tyranny, which we’re seeing on a daily basis with these Unconstitutional gun grab and Registration proposals. The military brass is being asked if they will fire on American citizens if ordered to do so. Our women and children are being groped and molested by government TSA thugs at our nations airports, train stations, and now the Superbowl games. Our elections are full of fraud, deceit, and outright corruption.
    Yes I do think we need to worry about the legislation being proposed for Unconstitutional gun registration by a Defacto government who has gone far beyond the restraints that the Law of this land,(The Constitution) allows.
    I think that when the time comes for each respective state to begin arresting corrupt politicians and their NWO minions for their Unlawful / Unconstitutional acts of tyranny against the citizens of this nation, being well armed will help make the process a lot easier.

  128. One thing I have noticed is We are losing freedoms everytime congress gets together. All they need is their foot in the door and gun owners will be doomed (or dammed). So get your head out and start supporting one of the Gun Lobbies.

  129. Seems to me the government is above the law. Americans have gotten stupid allowing this to happen. Universal back ground checks will not stop the bad guys from getting guns. I fact it will start another large black market (like the drug trade). The price of guns and ammo will go up, but people will pay the price. The current US government makes me sick. They all should be fired. Obama is trying to turn into a dictator with executive orders. He should be kicked out of office. Nixon did a lot less and look at what happened to him.

  130. Beyond the obviously cartoonish lack of results this would result in when it comes to crime, how would the government know if a gun was sold anyway? There are hundreds of millions of gun out there. Unless they start running sting operations to see if people aren’t reporting their sales there are almost no records of who owns a gun now. 4473’s will tell them who bought a gun from that store on that day. It says nothing about current ownership.

    Efficacy has never been a requirement for new laws unfortunately.

  131. What nobody seems to be considering is that if a national gun owners list is created, then the feds can and will create an ownership tax. In other words, you can keep all the guns you want, but you must pay an annual tax to keep them. Lets face it, if they create even $100 tax for each firearm annually, that’s quite possibly a trillion per year revenue. If you don’t pay it, you lose your house.

  132. In the past, more than one dealer has told me that the ATF comes in and checks their records. Not sure if the agents were copying and retaining the records. I’ve not heard anything recently but I haven’t asked either.

    This is why I so strongly oppose background checks, especially for private sales. For many years now I’ve suspected that the background checks performed to date have all been kept in a massive database, ensuring that the government has a “registration list” of guns already.

    Another reason to oppose checks for private sales is financial. I believe it puts undue financial burden on buyers, as some dealers will take advantage and charge outrageous fees for the service. In some parts of the country, there are few dealers, not like in big cities where competition can keep the fees low.

    Proponents of universal checks go one step further, citing that because we register cars, which they say are not dangerous, why shouldn’t we register guns? I say, Do we run criminal and mental checks before we sell the cars? Or give out a drivers license?

    Lastly, it’s none of the government’s business what guns I buy and own.

    I fail to understand why people are so against citizens owning guns. They say that other countries have very restricted gun ownership and very little “gun violence.” (Why “gun violence” is any worse than other types of violence is beyond me!) I say, Our country was founded on freedom, not serfdom, so this comparison is likened to comparing apples to potatoes.

    We are not subjects of rulers as they are in Europe, Asia, and other places that are still operated like monarchies. We ousted the monarchy and set up a brand new government based on freedom and rights: the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. How can one defend his/her right to life if the government takes away one’s ability to defend it?

  133. Universal back ground checks border on violating the 4th amendment in the form of an unreasonable search. The checks mean I don’t have the right unless some Government agency decides I do and if they screw up (tell me 1 thing they don’t screw up) I lose my rights with no recourse. Then we have the most famous problem with our governments plan “THE LAW OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES” you know the part well we never intenteded to out right outlaw this that or the other but the way the law was written it just happen and now we the American people will just have to live with the results. No they are a bad Idea and wrong just like the NO FLY LIST now you can travel unless the governement (TSA) says you can. This about it!

  134. Registration, confiscation, tyranny. The progression is repeated by every society that lost its freedom.Since 1934 our right to weapons has been compromised.

    No state permission is needed to trade private property. I will not comply

  135. Be afraid! The key to the liberal social progress made in our beloved country in the last 40 years is the incremental achievements made in their quest to transform America from an individual’s sovereign protection in this country as it was founded to be to a government elitist controlled country. I like GOA but still too afraid to publish my real name and email.

  136. After every major gun-violence tragedy, i.e., Columbine, Sandy Hook, effort is made to ban guns, hi-cap mags, etc. Fast and Furious was intended to be the tragedy to gin up support to further restrict 2A. It backfired, so the anti-gunners just waited for the next one, Sandy Hook. Then the normal reaction, even before the funerals, the anti-gunners rolled out the unconstitutional laws and regs they wanted passed, written months if not years ago, just waiting. But did they ban the gun-weapon responsible for the most homicides-the revolver or SA pistol? Noooo, only the ones which they feared the most, the AR’s, the AK’s, and similar semi-automatic rifles that Patriots would employ in a fight against Tyranny. It isn’t about hunting, sport shooting, or protection of your family or home. 2A was designed as a safeguard against over-reaching and tyrannical government. Protection of the American people from their liberal progressive tyrannical government is was the liberals fear the most. It is not about protecting “the children” but in getting the only means of keeping our government at bay out of our hands. They cannot force their will on an armed populace, and they know it. Resist ANY effort to restrict any part of our Second Amendment. Not just NO but HELL NO!

  137. At the present time I can see no need in having a 30 round magazine,but,I agree that ALL should follow the existing laws without variance.

  138. Know Your History! From the beginning of recorded history societies, countries, cities, communities have had citizens propose “good intentions” laws which wound up being their downfall. “Let us lay down our swords to show we intend no harm” “.. they were the easiest to conquer. “Turn in your swords and bows for the King and HIS men will protect us”….how many times has that worked before they HAD to ask for the citizen to help fight the fight AWAY from their UNPROTECTED families and homes. “Go and confiscate their weapons for they may rise up against US and the KING”…by knowing who were the skilled armors and from them who purchased their weapons they knew exactly where to go and “do their duty by orders”. Know your history…How dis Rome conquer? How did the New World defeated? How in modern times did Spain, Italy, Germany, Russia,….on and did they conquer and control the “sheeple”? THINK ABOUT IT !

  139. This would be the first step towards national registration, which is the next step in confiscation. Many of the gun grabbers like Diane Feinstein have said in the past that their ultimate goal is to confiscate all firearms from U.S. citizens. This is also apparent in Obama’s support of the U.N.’s small arms treaty which would also result in firearms confiscation even though it would violate the U.S. Constitution. It is very clear to me that many of our politicians and fellow Americans for that matter only believe in the U.S. Constitution when it agrees with their personal views.

  140. Why would the gun shops mentioned not legally refuse to provide the 4473 data? If it is not legal to be gathered, then any gun shop in America would have the protection under the law to refuse to comply. This begs the question: Is this a true story? If true, the further question is begged by what means of pressure did the agent’s obtain the data? Did they threaten the shop owner? Did they extort the shop owner? In the short term the question is simply “is this a true account of what’s happening?” The long germ “why do they want the data” and “what can they do to our rights with it” must be answered separately once we determine if this is a true story. The plausibility comes into question, once again, because gun shop owners would have the legal right to refuse to comply and could call in attorney assistance if pressed to comply illegally. Give us specific store names and quotes from owners and credibility will begin to creep into this story.

  141. Yes, I agree 100% with GOA. This Administration is totally LAWESS, so is CONGRESS. The COWARDS in CONGRESS will not hold this Administration accountable for all their crimes.
    This Administration is pushing the law-abiding gun owners to the wall so THEY have a reason to subvert the Bill of Rights and / or the Constitution.


  142. Since no one hs yet to look at my 4473s I have wondered how background checks would make a list of gun owners. However, if what you say is true and the BATFE is copying them, then yes it absolutely is troubling. There are way too many reports of unmarked groups of government commando types practicing raids and other scenarios around this country (in Houston recently) and not giving the news people any information about what they ade doing. This is very much looking like the current administration is planning something big. And it appears they are going to be on offensive instead of defensive side of things.

  143. Keep it simple and close to the Constitution as possible. It is not only for self protection but also to overthrow tyranny. How do one know? It is in the Constitution. On basic principle and ideology of living life the founding fathers knew these well for they are timeless. We need not only to bring back the politician to the basics but we need to do something with the liberal bias media. These are the basic tools of tyranny. At times the pen is mightier then the sword. Propaganda has always been used to shape the mind of the public, it is time for the GOA and NRA to do the same. Peace and freedom are not free.

  144. Yes it has already happened here in NY. After our January 15th “safe act of Ny” went into affect,the following days ATF was at our areas biggest gun shop. They had four agents for two days going through the 4473’s. There is only one reason they would be doing that….

  145. Because of the dishonesty, the tatics they use, and their disreguard for our Constitution and Bill of Rights…I intend to give no support or cooperation to the current Administration. I will work thru my elected represenatives and the NRA of which I am a member, as well as GOA, of which I am now a member, to ensure the foundation on which this country is built is not destroyed or ignored. I will resist any proposals they make, or any illegal laws they attempt to enforce. I choose to say no more on this and trust we are on the same page here.

  146. I wonder how long our founding fathers would allow our lives to e dictated and our privacy invaded. Or for our constitution to be vilated.It must stop no good will come from any of these introduced changes .Only anger true americans and at some point we will unite and stand.

  147. Any attempt at registration or confiscation of legally purchased and owned firearms in what I have known during my 60 + years in American as a guaranteed right of mine as sanctioned by the 2nd Amendment is a declaration of war against not only me, but every law-abiding firearms ownener in this country and will be dealt with accordingly. Many body bags should be procurred by any government agency which sets out to undertake such an operation..not for us, but for them.

  148. Nothing suprises me of Obama, He has Sworn twice as many in his cabinet have to uphold the constitution and they break it ever time. and He make all of his own rules, he care nothing about our rights just being ZKIBG is all he cares about

  149. I agree universal back checks are for the gun grabbers!gotta love newhampshire
    sportsmen/woman;live free or die!!TIME FOR ALL SPORTSMAN TO UNITE AND SHOW OUR

  150. If the universal check is implemented, I think that you are going to see them trying to deny any application that they want for any reason they choose to use and then going out to confiscate the weapons or telling you that you are to take and surrender them to your police dept. along with any ammunition you have.
    This is getting very serious day by day.
    I would not doubt that the TSA is being trained for doing some things along this line
    When are the American people going to wake up?
    Just my 2 cents worth

  151. I bought a Mini 14 from you a while back. Wish now I’d went out on Saturday night and bought it off the street.
    I really don’t think this gun control will come to pass. Course I underestimated the power of the Left in the last two elections.

  152. I haven’t got any firsthand examples of BATFE agents copying forms, but I definitely don’t trust the Gov’t that it isn’t happening.

    I fully agree that the black rifle ban, bad as it is, is not the most significant danger in Feinstein’s bill. Both the mag capacity issue, which will extend to all magazine fed firearms – not just black rifles – and the registration/background stuff is far more dangerous.

    No one wants criminals or crazies to have firearms. I might support a background check system if the details were designed to preclude the Gov’t from knowing if any given citizen ended up buying, or what he bought. But this is not what they are proposing, and I don’t trust them *at all* not to use this to compile lists.

    As I see it, there is no legitimate reason for registration of private firearms. The legal owner poses no threat to anyone, so in that case registration serves no legitimate purpose. If the owner flips out and goes on a murder spree, registration won’t matter. If the owner decides to embark on a life of crime, he isn’t about to use his registered weapon. He will get a readily-available, untraceable, illegal weapon. So again, registration isn’t useful. If the rightful owner has his gun stolen, the serial number will probably be ground off. But even if it isn’t, so what? The firearm isn’t traceable to the person that stole it, only to the legal owner – who isn’t the criminal. That would help if the objective was to return the firearm to the rightful owner, but somehow I don’t think that is the Gov’t’s objective. So, I don’t see any legitimacy in registration. The *only* purpose it serves is to give the Gov’t a list…. and that’s the first step toward confiscation.

  153. I will not place my name and weapon(s) on any list that could be used in future confiscation efforts.

    Any weapon I have now will not be made known to any government individual for any purpose.

    This is regardless of any future or pending legislation.

  154. It is another way that when the Time comes these guys will knock at your door an order all your guns to be taken a way. who is kidding who! Impeach Obama for over stepping his bounds on sever counts. Lies and more Lies.

  155. 80% of gun owners support universal background checks. Get over it. It’s coming. If you don’t want to be on the list, sell your guns.

  156. Do you agree? NO!

    Have you heard similar stories from your local gun sellers about 4473s being copied and kept by BATFE agents? NO.

    Are GOA’s fears overblown about a national registry? NO!

    Do you agree that a national list of customers and guns purchased provides the means for local, state, and federal agencies to confiscate firearms, ammunition, and non-compliant accessories, such as standard-capacity 30-round magazines? YES!

  157. MORE from the NAZI REGIME taking more rights away, the government is most likely behind all those mass shootings just to take our rights away.

  158. If we already get checked out when we buy the guns and the FFL has to keep the paperwork, then the Feds can get the info anyhow. Can someone explain this a little more?

  159. Insofar as the ATF going through sales/background checks for 4473’s, I’ve no comment, but will tomorrow when I purchase my new rifle- I’ll be sure to ask the owner if he’s had any such occurrances.
    As to am I concerned by it? A little, for sure. There’s already got to be a list of gun owners in many states: just check the state records for deer hunting, small game, and duck hunting licenses and you’d have a very close facsimile of who has guns. Check gun club membership rolls- another avenue for them to see where the guns are. Or just go to a local or national shoot. No problem: shooter’s names are on the tally sheet.

    The only thing they may not know is what kind and how many weapons one has- but those are easy enough to surmise.

    Now, do I agree that we should be concerned? Yes, absolutely. But as a nephew of mine told me once while discussing his plans at the CIA, “I know more about you than you do.” And I believe him, from a paper point of view. Too, what makes GOA, or anyone, positive that all background checks aren’t already being logged, despite the laws against it? Since when has this government been seriously ‘following’ the law?

    Do I think we should not only protest any kind of government intrusion into our lives? Beyond any shadow of doubt. Do I think we can stop them from doing so without stripping them of their flesh? Not a snowball’s chance in hell.

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