Is it Time to Eliminate the ATF? Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner Says Yes

Picture is of Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner

In early 2012, Milwaukee, Wisconsin resident Chauncey Wright—a man suffering from brain damage, mental disabilities and with half that of a normal IQ level—saw some men handing out flyers in a Walmart store parking lot. Wright approached the men and asked them for a job. They employed him to promote their out-of-the-way clothing shop by riding his bike around town distributing fliers. In the past, Wright had found it difficult to keep a job—along with his disabilities, he has a criminal record, including a felony. Determined, Wright was devoted to the shop and for a little over six months, did what his employee asked him to do—including buy guns and drugs for them. The owners of Fearless Distributing paid Wright in cigarettes, product and a little cash for his work. Without warning, after six months of employing Wright, Fearless Distributing closed abruptly. Shortly after the shop closed, Wright was arrested and charged with seven drug and gun offenses.

It sounds like a front for a criminal gang, taking advantage of a mentally impaired man to be the middleman for illegal gun and drug deals. However, in fact, it was an undercover sting operation operated by the ATF, called Operation Fearless.

Picture is of Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner
U.S. Representative Jim Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.) says eliminating the ATF will save taxpayers money.

The last few years have been rough for the regulatory and law enforcement agency responsible for the illegal use, transfer and sale of firearms. Besides the botched Milwaukee sting and Operation Fast and Furious, the agency went seven years without a permanent director. In fact, in 2013 a group that studied the ATF’s effectiveness and efficiency wrote that the “ATF lacks a clear mission and sense of purpose…” Now, a Congressman from Wisconsin is currently working on a bill that would eliminate the agency. U.S. Representative Jim Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.) says eliminating the ATF and having other departments, like the FBI, take on its responsibilities would save taxpayers money and make the government more efficient.

Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) says he will support the bill, calling the ATF “unaccountable,” a “debacle” and an “embarrassment.” Other supporters include the Center for American Progress, whose members called out for an elimination of the ATF right after the shootings at Sandyhook. A spokesperson for the organization stated that giving the ATF’s responsibilities over to the FBI made sense, because the FBI is not as susceptible to politics as the ATF has been.

There is no copy of the bill yet, but Sensenbrenner says” By absorbing the ATF into existing law enforcement entities, we can preserve the areas where the ATF adds value for substantially less taxpayer money. While searching for its mission, the ATF has been plagued by decades of high-profile blunders….We cannot afford to ignore clear changes that will greatly enhance the government’s efficiency.” The elimination of the ATF has been suggested by lawmakers quite a few times in the past—most notably once during the Reagan and then again during the Clinton administrations.

So far, the NRA has made no official statement on the supposed bill, but the National Shooting Sports Foundation, Bloomberg’s Everytown for Gun Safety and the Brady Campaign oppose the bill.

What do you think about eliminating the ATF? Share your thoughts with us in the comment section.

The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt!'s blog, The Shooter's Log, is to provide information—not opinions—to our customers and the shooting community. We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. The information provided here does not represent the views of Cheaper Than Dirt!

Comments (106)

  1. I think everything about the ATF is despicable. When our forefathers spoke of enemies’ both foreign and domestic they were no doubt speaking of organizations such as the ATF. They are nothing more than paid terrorists that need to be removed for the common good of all law abiding citizens. God bless America, God bless freedom and democracy and God bless our Constitution. Defund and abolish the ATF immediately.

  2. Absolutely get rid of the ATF but don’t stop there,get rid of the DEA as well. Both are sucking up valuable resources that the true law enforcement agencies of our government need… like the Sheriffs departments of every state, the FBI and the CIA. We don’t need no stinking ATF or DEA, They are used by the IRS, the NSA and the DOJ to FLEECE We the people to justify building more prisons and finding the most insignifcant BS to fill them, I have seen it first hand with my son and am adamate about seeing ALL those agencies listed here abolished. a FLAT TAX gets rid of the ‘real’ problem.

  3. We have duplicate agencies and in addition Homeland Security. It is ridiculous to have all of these overlapping departments.
    It is really way past time to get rid of at least two of them But, alas, has the government ever built an agency and then eliminated it. NO. So keep dreaming on this one.Oh, just keep on sending them your hard earned dollars till further notice. Do you really think hell is going to freeze over?

  4. Alcohol and Tobacco are DRUGS and should be covered by the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA). That alone will eliminate 1/2 of the Bureau of Another Total F-ups and Excuses (BATFE).

    THEN, transfer total responsibility of Firearms and Explosives to the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI). This will completely eliminate the Bureau of Another Total F-ups and Excuses (BATFE).

    The problem that WE have is that there are TOO MANY agencies and “Bureaus” with overlapping duties and responsibilities.
    When that guy set off a botched car-bomb in New York City, the NYPD Bomb Squad; FBI Explosives Unit; and ATF retards argued for what seemed like hours over WHO had jurisdiction and authority over the crime scene.

    Eliminate the ATF and have their roles absorbed by the other agencies. This will reduce the number of personnel and associated costs for an OVER-redundant system. I would also say that this should REDUCE the tax-payers burden of supporting the government, but Congress and President don’t know ANYTHING about saving money. They’ll just use the money that USE to go to the ATF on some OTHER money wasting cause or endeavor.

  5. We are being asked to support a largely hidden turf war. Between CIA, FBI who are acting as point men for NSA , versus the ATF.
    At stake is a lotmore than just !1.3 billion budget and some smal dept with less than 4000 as weapons and explosives field agents you are taliking of destroying the only bureau that Justice Dept has which can investigate any illegal activity within its borders.
    I brain bloc cannot remeber its program for working within communitys using community activist is the most succeesful program ever for lowering crimes both viscious and thefts.
    FBi has area of Domestic security but in las few years it has more agents overseas and domesticly eorking under NSA.
    FBI HAS ARMED PROS WORKING OFF OF INTERNATIONAL WEB OF CIA which is supposed to , under the Patrio Act become part of CIA.
    The NSA is now only State Department and tells pres what to say as congress is non existent and Executive office holder has no power in itself leaving power in a few interconnected Wealthy corporates and international CArtels, Kissinger and associates , Albright and others including your elected who are associates of groups.
    The record keeping of weapons will be privatized easily and Senators like Sensenbrenner who recieve Koch Dark Funds will disclaim real reasons ATF was torn apart.
    ATF was only independent investigative agency that continnually bumped against illegal FBI and CI A operations working against US people.

    IT knows no state versus fed city county borders nor and limitations by agencys once it has been determined a criminal violation is present.

  6. I think that it is time to close down this agency. We have other departments that could take over these responsibilities. Besides, we need to slim down the size of government. We need to cut government spending.
    We also need to abolish the NSA and the IRS well.

    1. We shouldn’t replace this agency with a more centralized agency like the federal bureau of investigations. Our founding fathers intended government to have separation of powers to allow for a system of checks and balances. I concede that this system may be ineffective with money, it is effective at preventing cronyism and a monopoly on our gun rights. Government is a necessary evil. Although we cannot allow it to grow too big, we cannot just eliminate it all together. One side of the spectrum leads to a totalitarian police state, and the other leads to anarchy. Neither are desirable and so we must look for a balanced medium.

    2. @ John: I am not certain as to how your mention of the “separation of powers” was intended to come across in your comment.

      By this do you mean that you view separate law enforcement agencies as being a form of the “separation of powers” as intended by the Founding Fathers? If that was your point, you are very mistaken.

      The separation of powers applies to the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial powers of government, ensuring each possess separate bodies of equal power for checks and balance over one another.

      So forgive me if I am confused when you appear to apply the “separation of powers” across law enforcement agencies. All of these federal agencies fall under one branch of government; that being the Executive Branch. So given that all federal enforcement activities fall under the purview of the Executive Office of the President, this makes the President the sole chief law enforcer of the land.

      So while the Legislative Branch makes the laws and the Judicial Branch interprets the laws, the President through his Executive Branch is given authority to enforce the laws. There is no balance when the President allows his enforcement muscle to get out of control or take on a purpose outside of its original scope of existence. And that is precisely what has happened with the ATF.

      So when a President fails to get it under control, now is when the “separation of powers” is meant to kick in and Congress should use its authority to cut funding and abolish such a rogue agency.

      As for the rest of the federal agencies under Obama, the best balance we could hope for is to put them back to pre-1930’s procedures by removing all their powers to arrest. Back then they did investigations and then had to request local law enforcement to affect the final arrest. When it is done in this manner there is a process that forces other agency involvement and thus better scrutiny prior to each arrest.

  7. Why move anything that they do anywhere else? Repeal the National Firearms Act of 1934 and the Gun Control Act of 1968 and replace them with nothing. America was doing just fine before either of these nanny-state bills were passed. Allow those who lose value on their items (suppressors and machine guns) to write it off over 10 years like they do with counterfeit money.

    Trusting God and living in Freedom are what has made this country great. Why not just go back to that?

    1. Trusting your God is folly I will trust legislation and logical government who thinks before reacts and leave the magic man for church.

    2. I’m going to have to go with kiljoy616 on this one. It is quite apparent that God was not “thinking before he reacted” when allowing the creation of kiljoy616 into this world.

      And depending on when he was born, kiljoy616 may have been one of the fortunate babies that was obviously spared death brought on by our illustrious “trustworthy legislation and logical government” passed Roe v. Wade.

      Oh yes by all means place every bit of your trust in mere man; after all with all the balance, majesty, miracle, and perfection of the earth, sky, space and beyond, it all simply has to begin and end with man… and then we just die.

  8. I agree the DEA BATF and the IRS should be defunded and removed from our government also the FBI should lose all its arrest authority moreover, all arrest authority should be returned to local Law enforcement agencies. No federal agency should have arrest authority any and all arrest should be led by local LEO’s and State Police. While we are at it we need to do away with No knock raids which are not necessary. Like the Waco siege on the branch Davidians. David Koresh and his followers could have been arrested peacefully while on one of their shopping sprees in town also they could have just walked up to the compound with a warrant and served them. instead the murdered 76 innocent women, children and men

  9. They did it with Customs and Immigration…merged the two into CBP…
    No one who was on before the merge likes it….but they did it.
    Just going to put the blame on a different agency with a different 3 letter code.
    They’ll keep all the agents…just change the patches. Not going to save any money. Still be the same hoops to jump through.

  10. The BATF has a long history of corruption. I remember when they accused a highway patrolman of having a fully automatic firearm, and then being forced, in open court, to admit that their lab had to modify the weapon to go fully automatic. And let us not forget how they dragged other Federal Agencies into their messes at Ruby Ridge and Waco (Operation Showboat).

  11. ATF and DEA are the most corrupt and political arms of the US Govt. we have and should be defunded or done away with !!!

  12. My personal experiences with the BATF from various joint task forces has revealed an immature group of agents with ideologies that fall well outside the scope of most standard law enforcement work ethics.

    As well, I find them to be extremely dependent upon the real authority, assistance, and tactics of the other LEAs that accompany them on most operations (raids). Essentially they require much hand-holding and often turn their case load over to the FBI for final prosecution.

    The BATF served a purpose once… long long ago. Its deployment became necessary during the lawless Elliot Ness days fighting organized mob crime headed by the likes of Al Capone. But just in the same way we deploy and withdraw military troops and adjust strength levels based on necessity and budget, so too should any other federal branch, organization or agency of government. But for some reason this never applies to the BATF when it should have.

    When an agency searches for ways to justify its budget and existence, that is a clear sign it’s time to be done. Such is the case of the BATF; and when left bloated, idle, and unattended for too long, severe mistakes are bound to occur. The BATF is wrought with such mistakes, of which has now become its hallmark of notoriety rather than the lawful enforcement for which it was originally intended back when Elliot Ness gave it legitimacy.

  13. Yeah, well if you people were so damn smart you would have realized that killing women and children wasnt a sworn duty. Tough call I know…serve a warrant and kill innocent women and children or not serve a warrant and let the women and children live. Damn!

  14. I am for closing the ATF. Basically anytime you ca reduce the size of government it is a good thing! And when we get rid of an agency that rides rough shod over out rights it is a real good thing to do!

  15. You might look again the penalty for treason only carries about 5 yrs a hefty fine and the inability to hold a government job ever again. It was rewritten several years ago to cover their collective asses.

  16. The ATF is a gestapo like agency that has created it’s own rules and regulations that are clearly outside of the scope of the US Constitution. It parallels the IRS in several respects and lacks full accountability. Forms to effect the sale and transfer in effect have created a dealer to individual gun registration system since 1968 which is completely outside of the scope of the US Constitution as it infringes upon individual rights under the Second Amendment. Purchasers names, addresses, gun serial numbers, make, model all tie the buyer to a specific firearm. With respect to National Firearm Act (NFA ) weapons the federal forms require/ mandate the signature of a chief law enforcement officer ( typically the local sheriff) who is not compelled to sign off on the form and in many cases refuses to do so, even if the purchaser has a spotless criminal record, no felony arrests etc. This too, is outside the scope of the Bill of RIGHTS.

    The ATF has become another bloated federal agency exercising self-created, self- imposed, discretionary rules and mandates making lawful and legitimate gun ownership burdensome and subject to more government bureaucracy. Time to get rid of the ATF

  17. Less government is the answer. Get rid of the the ATF and save taxes. OBTW take Obama Care with it!

    1. yes the atf is unconstitutional and we the people are tired of being attaacked by our govt when a joutside source attacks us or a crazy does..inner city black and hispanics are the most o the crime…they will have the guns no matter. Holder will see to that.

  18. So how would this affect sales of Class 3 firearms like short-barreled long guns or any firearm listed as a machine gun.

  19. Yes, It would be nice to eliminate the ATF, But I don’t think that will ever happen as long as Obama President and Harry Reid and Boehner control the US Congress. It would be nice to think that the perpetrators of fast and furious, operation castaway, Waco,Ruby Ridge, etc. will someday have to pay for their crimes. But I doubt that it will ever happen. Even if the Republicans take the White House and The Senate, and The House. Sorry, I wish.

  20. It’s a national police force, narrow in scope, but a policing agency none the less.

    Our Mission
    ATF is a unique law enforcement agency in the United State Department of Justice that protects our communities from violent criminals, criminal organizations, the illegal use and trafficking of firearms, the illegal use and storage of explosives, acts of arson and bombings, acts of terrorism, and the illegal diversion of alcohol and tobacco products. We partner with communities, industries, law enforcement, and public safety agencies to safeguard the public we serve through information sharing, training, research and use of technology.

  21. You would think with the debt clock at 100,000$+ per family the governemnt would be working “for the people” by creating jobs and getting rid of excess spending in these ineffective branches of gov’t. Instead they are still trying to take away freedoms, my taxes are at 47% your gonna tell me I have to pay half of my hard earned money into this crooked system; and get freedoms taken away???? Prioritize our real problems, don’t hide them. Fix our infrastructure, create new jobs, stop spending it uslessly on gov’t handouts. YOU WANT WELFARE AND CAN WORK, HERE IS A JOB FIXING ROADS AND BRIDGES, BUILDING NEW HIGH SPEEE RAIL LINES. The bailout could have gotten us so much more than it did. Get rid of them all, we need a clean slate.

  22. Damn rite too many regulators. All trying to steal our rights just to get their name in print. Saying look mom look dad see I told you I was going to be a star.. They don’t care what happens to us at all.Give them time the a.t.f will .come knocking on your door .They have already been to mine just to see the 2 weapons I had.Just took the l numbers and left. Yes It can Happen to you. I’m an old 70 yer old man only have weapons to protect myself. Weight and see .It’s coming too your house soon.

  23. Having had a run in with the BATF personally, my opinion is that they do as they please and answer to no one. The problem I had with them was caused as the result of a lie told to them by a local detective regarding my right to own firearms. It eventually cost me my business and almost everything I owned. Their wrongdoing was admitted to by a U.S. district attorney, but I had no recourse because they are an agency of the Government. Get rid of them.

  24. Yes, it needs to be eliminated, waste of money and and interference with normal life, The Government is way to intrusive and needs to be be scaled back about 99 percent. Eliminate the ATF and the white house.

  25. Please get rid of ATFE. Send all personnel to the U.S. Border Patrol. Same for DEA and HSA. Trim the Federal Government by at least 60%. Return this country to the Constitution.

  26. Yes, We the People need to shut [or burn] down the ATF, IRS, DHS, and the NSA, and then start looking for more agencies that also need to be vaporized.

    It’s time to start being the land of the free and the home of the brave again.

    1. I”d be willing to bet I could come up with over a hundred gubmint agencies that could be eliminated, with very little effect on We the People–or, We the People who actually pay taxes. Give me a few days, and I could gut most of the “spending programs” that have become the sacred cows of dishonest politicians.

  27. Too much government is not what this country was built on and there are agency’s to govern agency’s that govern agency’s and so on. So yea close up shop and close homeland security and all these agency’s , and fire are current government and hire people that are for the people that have made America what it was suppose to be. Land of the free !

  28. BATFE

    Alcohol… no Constitutional power or authority to regulate or restrict access to.

    Tobacco…no Constitutional power or authority to regulate or restrict access to.

    Firearms… CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED and regulation, restriction, or any accessories or munitions are SPECIFICALLY DENIED to government at any level.

    Explosives…no Constitutional power or authority to regulate or restrict access to by any level of government.

    Enforcement of any ‘law’, regulation, ordinance or any other restriction is an ACT OF TREASON, chargable and Punishable by sentence of DEATH.

    1. BIG thumbs up, Geezer. Few actually read, fewer KNOW what is written in the Constitution, to my dismay and to our own demise–but it’s NOT by accident, not by a long shot–it’s by plan, and it’s working out very well.

  29. It is most definitely a good idea to disband the ATF, because they are unelected and have too much power over American businesses and consumers.

    The ATF is able to screw us constantly without having to worry about things like being elected, and THAT IS UNAMERICAN AND ILLEGAL.

    Given the ATF’s history of absolute failure, the ATF should have been disbanded years ago.

  30. Sensenbrenner has never had a lot of sense when it comes to things. All he cares about are garnering votes from the increasing number of idiots living in Wisconsin. I’m glad I left there…the place has turned into a right wing haven of nutjobs. I own multiple weapons…but get rid of ATF? So badly thought out.

    1. HEY Grumpster—last time I checked under this administration, if your are a white heterosexual gun owner that goes to church on accasions–you are a Right Winger —-I am so glad Obama clarified that for me, I was so confused for many years————
      Get rid of the ATF—and about 200 other useless agencies; States make and enforce there own laws through elected officials

    2. A “right wing haven of nutjobs”?? Wisconsin?? Are you sure you’re talking about the State of Wisconsin in the contiguous 48? ‘Cause I think you’re talking about some foreign country–or perhaps Utah. You own “multiple weapons”?? Really? Hmmm…. Bows and arrows maybe, or perhaps a pocket knife? Or a machete? I mean that’s a weapon for sure, you must mean a machete.

      Truth is, you’re another Demo-bot trying to prove you know about guns and all that, but truth is you’d probably pee yourself just holding one and don’t know the first thing about them. If you had any genuine interest in the ATF and their abuses over the past many years, you’d have never said something like..”…get rid of the ATF? So badly thought out.” You would have said “Get RID OF THE ATF, they are such a poorly managed and dysfunctional organization they should have been absorbed into the FBI more than 60 years ago, and the lack of their demise is so badly thought out it’s obvious we have nothing but morons in DC.”

      Just my 2 cents.grumpy.

  31. Over half of the US government agencies are unconstitutional. The federal government has enumerated powers and those power not enumerated are the rights of the states.

  32. With our Government’s severe overspending tradition, anything we can do to save some dollars makes sense. The ATF has out lived it usefulness, especially since Dept of Homeland Security was formed. Between DHS and FBI, I think we would have more than enough people reading our email, reviewing our web browsing and tapping our calls. Let’s do this!

  33. Sent to the ATF for comments this morning:


    Today at 6:17 AM


    1.The ATF cannot properly utilize this additional information, as almost ALL of it will be unrelated to any unlawful activities and will therefore be useless to ATF’s designated directives of furthering public safety.

    2.The reporting requirements are onerous and overburdening, as almost ALL of these data collected will have nothing to do with illegal activities and will therefore be useless to ATF’s designated directives of furthering public safety.

    3. The additional reporting requirement is too open-ended. In other words, there are no controls on the ATF to either scale back or increase this reporting requirement. Thus, by definition, any data collected will be meaningless in relation to a bona fide public safety goal, and will therefore be useless to ATF’s designated directives of furthering public safety.

    4. This additional reporting requirement appears to be drafted by a bunch of goddamm lawyers working to protect their paychecks, who appear to have no clue as to how to actually protect the citizens of the United States. Therefore, it appears to be useless to assist in ATF’s designated directives of furthering public safety.

    5. This additional reporting requirement appears to further a politically driven… versus public safety driven… agenda of complete and total firearms registration within the United States, and would run afoul of the United States Constitution of the second, fourth, and fourteenth amendment (and perhaps others).

    6. The ATF can’t even manage the data it collects now; thus, how can these additional data requests be useful to them?

    7. Additional data collection, as well as the compilation of an national firearms-owner’s database, is DIRECTLY PARALLEL to what happened in socialist Germany in the 1920s-30s. What did that accomplish regarding the furtherance of public safety??…

    Feel free to contact me via return email if any of the above points need clarification for your understanding of them.


    H. M. Hargrove



    ordinary American citizen

    1. …and the Dept of Education, the IRS, EPA, and all SWAT type units in all agencies/departments with the exception of those with a primary mission of dealing with violent crimes and criminals.

    2. MIKE, YOU ARE SO RIGHT, EPA has to go also. in fact 50% of these governments departments are over lapping each other. why in the world are we taxed on everything. We get nothing for our tax’s as it is now. Today another tax went into effect on Airline tickets, That tax is for the DHS . what a scam…..

    3. Don’t shut them all down until the IRS is sent to check them all out correctly and properly and thoroughly; Then shut them all down. Remove any President from office that sneaks around all the other liars we have put into OUR CONGRESS TO REPRESENT ALL AMERICAN CITIZENS; and write into law anything they wish to write into law. Send the current president looking for a new job ASAP; Vote only those who do not represent either the Dem or Rep Party into any office; Both the Parties and all the individuals in both Parties are bought sold and owned by Big Business. It is time for WE THE PEOPLE to take back our Government; but it cannot be done as long as both Parties are owned and fully and totally controlled. Just Do IT. Remove them all from our offices; All of them have violated their oaths of office and have not only allowed illegal aliens to come into our Country, they have made it very easy to them all to stay in our Country and cost the American Citizens Billions and Billions of our Tax Dollars every year. This is a Clear Violation of our Federal Laws; however, no one sees anyone in office any office Congress or the Senate all fired up and demanding every other elected official should keep their oats of office and demand our Federal Law Enforcement Agencies do their jobs and keep their oaths as well . All of these upper management persons should be fired as well as they have also failed their oaths of office. Time is here to force their hands, demand they do their jobs and most of all who ever heads these federal agencies Do their jobs and uphold their oaths of office. We do bot have two sets of Federal Laws in our Country; one for just American Citizens and other for all the illegals they are allowing to illegally enter our Country and stay, even rewarding them by allowing them to later become Citizens. Awarding Illegals for breaking our Federal Laws?? This is our current Government and WE need to send them all messages Yesterday; letting them all know WE THE PEOPLE have had enough. Do your jobs – do it right – make things URE REMOVAL FROM ANY OFFICE come next election. Demand this and demand it now – let it be known to all in any office WE THE PEOPLE ARE WATCHING AND LISTENING – YOU IN OFFICE MAY NOT HAVE A JOB COME NEXT ELECTION. Do your jobs NOW and keep your oaths of office or you will be working in fast foods along with all of your illegal FRIENDS who also failed to vote for you who will not be around to vote for any of you come next election. We are tired of being ROBBED by our OWN Government – We the People are the Government and never – ever forget that MR. PRESIDENT – MEMBERS OF THE SENATE OR MEMBERS OF CONGRESS. W E put you all into office and We Will remove all of you from our offices. GET UR DONE – NOW!!!

  34. The ATF has been a political arm of liberal Democrats and those that oppose the 2nd Amendment for 50 years. I have, as a retired LEO, known several ATF agents who were good, well intentioned officers of the law, and I’m sure there were hundreds like them. However the policy making upper echelon of that agency have usually been political appointees with little or no law enforcement experience and were little more that political hacks themselves. They were certainly not law enforcement professionals. The Federal bureaucracies have used the ATF to further their political agendas.

  35. When a government learns that it can legislate its on salary without control of the people then that government is doomed. We have people in office that only serve themselves. They constantly need a greater tax base while doing less less of what really needs to be done. We must put a stop to this tyranny! It’s quickly getting to the point that our forefathers faced way back when this fine country was born. We The People don’t need government telling us whether or not we can pledge allegiance to the flag. We don’t need government telling us if we can have “In God We Trust” on our money, in our courts and public buildings. We don’t need government telling us that we must compensate those decendants of people that were long ago thought to have been “mistreated” by being brought to America where they could serve as “slaves” in a far better position than they faced in thier homeland. What we DO NEED is a government that is able to secure our borders, protect us from those that would harm us and to once again make the United States respected and reckoned with as a global force not to be challenged. Unfortunately our current administration is leading us in the wrong directiion and We The People need to correct that problem.

  36. Get rid of the criminal IRS, ATF, DHS, wasteful Fusion Centers for starters. Then eliminate the f-35 program. $409 billion to the MI complex profiteers

  37. Yes, it is time to get rid of the BATFE & all firearms banning laws and start enforcing laws that put the real criminals behind bars like child rapists, killers, robbers & pedophiles.

  38. the governments spending is out of control, the national debt is obscene, too many govnmt agencies overlap jurisdiction, and the dept. of home security overlaps them all, How many expensive agencies do we need to bankrupt our economy, limit the peoples rights, duplicate and waste taxpayers money that can be used to fund a real, comprehensive health program, insure social security, properly assist returning vets, improve education and living conditions for disabled and elderly, protect our environment, and maintain the security of our borders and our country. We might have money left to bring down the ridiculous debt. Of course this won’t be popular with the greedy politicians, congress, the white house and obscure alphabet agencies that get rich at the peoples expense.

    1. Great post! You hit the nail on the head. Or biggest problem is Government and it’s agencies that suck the life blood from American Citizens. Inner welfare of agencies unneeded employes, overlapping, duplicated services and corporate greed. The future of our nation is in question.

  39. The ATF, in its present form, is unnecessary. Their firearms authority should be eliminated. They serve no practical purpose for the American people. Felons & others in possession of firearms “under disability” could be handled by the FBI. Our myriad gun laws fly in the face of the constitution, they need to be eliminated. Perhaps a better area for the ATF to police would be in charging politicians with perjury when they violate their oath of office to support & defend the constitution of the United States.

  40. People seen to choose from the front part of the alphabet when they don’t know , for sure, what to do. ATF seems like a very good place to start getting rid of useless and badly managed Dept. but if we start let’s go all the way to the White House, AG’s office.,TSA, IRS, and a fist full more agencies.
    Honorable and Honest people in Washington DC. would be a new/old
    How say yea all?

    1. “Birds of a feather”. Get rid of the entire Flock Home Land Security.
      There have been 7 attempts of terrorism sense 2001 and 6 were set up by the FBI.

  41. It would at least set a precedent that Congress CAN eliminate Federal agencies. Then they can start going after other oppressive, money-wasting agencies like IRS, EPA, Dept. of Education, etc.

  42. I agree that the ATF should be a convenience store NOT a federal money pit. The fact is that they are just the tip of the iceberg. Take a look at the Department of Energy (all they have done is make dependent on foreign oil), or the IRS (a GIANT bureaucracy that should be eliminated by a flat tax or a national sales tax), or the Department of Immigration (currently transporting illegal aliens all over the country). We must replace everyone in congress and elect a President that doesn’t want to burn down our country.

  43. Yes they most likely are still moving small arms across border. As most alphabet agencies. The fed polices all fed agencies, So there is really no oversight. The ATF is a great place to start, we have to do something:
    Get rid of them

  44. The NRA will never support this move. The GOA, however, will; and they are the organization that should be getting our support.
    Remember the NRA supported expanding NICS checks.

  45. Need to trim ATF& E’s wings to just “E”. Limit their authority to conduct “sting” operations by requiring a Circuit Court approval, with specific parameters. No more open end “fishing expeditions”. Approval criteria should include, why necessary, specific persons or well defined organizations, specific types/kinds of evidence sought, In other words “search warrant normal criterion.

  46. No likey. IIRC, Sensenbrenner is responsible for the Patriot Act and some other pretty rotten legislation. He’s no Constitutionalist.

    As it is, the ATF is relatively incompetent and transparent. I think I prefer that to the skillful implementation and steel windows of the FBI. Do you want your rights violated more carefully?

    Be careful what you ask for.

  47. It has been my opinion since working with the BATF on an operation that included the IRS (enforcement division), FBI, Shelby County TN. Sheriff Dept., Memphis PD, and myself with The Tn. Hwy. Patrol CID (auto thief) . I noted how disrespectful the BATF agents were not only to the public but also to some of the other agencies. I considered them corrupt then and stated to my superiors that I chose not to work with them in the future. Most especially a female that made it clear all guns must be confiscated and damn with the US Const.

  48. Let’s set a flat income tax of 0.0% on all persons, real or corporate. We can get all the funds we need to support all the government we need – you know, the one delineated in the Constitution – from a national sales tax. You only pay on purchases you make, not how much money you receive for goods and services you provide.

    The income tax is regressive and unfair to lower income people. We will all be better off if it is scrapped.


    Its never going to happen, any of the NRA Pipedream’s. Unless you get 100% Republican Congress, a 100% Republican Senate, a Republican President and a Republican controlled Supreme Court, its all a just a PIPEDREAM. And by the way Japan did land troops in California in 1942, several months after the Pearl Harbor Attack and several Americans killed and captured. It never made new, because the government didn’t want to panic the population.

    1. NRA PIPEDREAM!…I would sure like to know where it is you get your history from…Japan landed on the islands of Attu and Kiska in the Aleutians in 1942 and killed about 25 Americans in doing so…they maintained control of the islands for about 1 year before we went in and killed most of the 2300 Japanese troops holding the islands…but that IS NOT California…now FDR did put a bunch of Japanese Americans behind fences in California (because they were of Japanese descent) but that is NOT an invasion…and that is not a hostile landing…sorry!

  50. Don’t forget the IRS. They think they are the Gestapo. Let’s get rid of all of them and set a simpler tax process; they are up there. Our tax system is antiquated and too complex and now that we are at it get rid of all the loop holes for the rich and tax everyone say: 10%. and with the revenue that we will collect invest it in America; fix all of our bridges, schools, potholes airports freeways etc…. And leave our guns along this will discourage any foreign Country from attack us In our homeland, and if you don’t believe me ask the Japanese why they did not invade California during WWII.

    God bless America.

  51. A lot of these comments remind me of when I moved to Lousiana one time and asked the locals why they were going to vote for a governor they all knew was corrupt and they answered that “at least we already know he is a crook, we don’t know much about the other guy”. That did not make sense to me then and some of these comments don’t make sense to me now. I say that we already know the ATF is flawed and corrupt so let’s get rid of that corruption and deal with what comes after that then.

  52. I’m wondering when anyone will be held responsible for fast and furious?
    Why did Obama step in with his executive privilege for Holder. Why haven’t anyone asked what Obama & Holder what the truth is? I think there was a nasty little plan there. Those guns were supposed to show up on our streets so Obama and his nitwit buddies could ban them, I believe that was supposed to happen but the border guard caught the Mexicans sneaking across with the guns!! that’s why he was murdered.

  53. I do feel that the Government is over stepping it’s limits. We have so many laws that if one had to carry a book of old laws and new laws, they’d need help. I said to eliminate the ATF and give the rights back to the people of America, where they rightly belong.

  54. What just exactly do you think an ATF agent wearing a TEE that says “Remember Waco” means?
    Does it mean YEAH we killed a bunch of innocent women and children?
    What does it mean? Id really like to know.
    How about one of you ATF guys that monitors this blog explain that to us.

    1. If there was a real need, there is nothing the fifty million American Patriots can’t handle. All those agencies put together couldnt even quell a neighborhood uprising. Local law enforcement is appropriate for any other type of enforcement. We are goofy to even allow our government to fund such a bunch of thugs.

  55. The fed gov is out of control. It needs to be reined in. However, after reading the comments here, it would seem that eliminating the ATF with out reforming the NFA is just shuffling the deck. Yes, the ATF is a bad actor and they need to go, but so long as their mandate to infringe on the 2nd Amendment Right of the people remains so will the power overreach and harassments of law abiding gun owners the ATF has become so well know for.

  56. Just to prove that BATFE should be disbanded: They were at my range in MT sighting in their MP5s with scopes on them, one guy didn’t know how to move the bullet impact right 1.5″ and up 3″!! We trust them with sub-machine guns..I don’t. By the way one of them was wearing a T-shirt that said “Remember Waco”. I was nice and didn’t remind him that they had their A**ES handed to them at Waco.

    1. That’s outright false, ATF hasn’t used the Mp5 for seven years and they didn’t have optics on them. I don’t know who you saw but it wasn’t ATF agents.

    2. They were ATF 9said so on their shooting vests) and things aren’t upgraded as quickly here in MT. They were 9mm (not .40 cals) MP5s. I am a retired Marine and know my weapons.

  57. What difference if the man knocking at your door that is wearing a suit and tie and his badge reads FBI, who says he is here to help; And a guy dressed in full black SWAT attire who is kicking in your door with ATF on his badge hollering ; ” If you move We will f …you up for good”?
    Not one damned thing as thry both have same mindsets in both superiors and underlings, their payyhecks come from same place and they are all paid to follow orders.
    And boy are the keyholders to hells gates
    jumping for joy at this latest move.
    To remove years of government regulations, such as in registration, privacy , time limits of
    permits and background rules, so hard fought for by gun owners, all thrown away as useless.
    To now be given into the largest known
    abusers of Civil Rghts and deliberate falsification of criminal evidence, and coverup specialist to the politicly powerful criminal acts, and surveilance state freaks of FBI
    and Homeland Security is ……
    No more rants from me on any threads except
    tech on weapons and gear.

  58. Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be the name of a convenience store, not a gubmint bureaucracy with police powers.

  59. ATF is the same as Hitler’s SS. I’ve seen the ATF personally in action. They are a brain washed, godless, hell bound, thugs. ATF, EPA, FEMA, Homeland Security, all should be done away with. That is what the National Guard’s for, because Homeland Security is a lot like ATF.

    1. I absolutely agree. First we need to take back the senate and maintain the house majority with conservatives. That could remove a whole lot of Obama’s trained flying monkeys from harassing the public.

    2. 1st) Get rid of the ATF,
      2nd) Get rid of Obama,
      3rd) Take back the Senate and House and the Presidency from the special interests groups, and
      4th) Reclaim America as “Land of the Free and Home of the Brave”.

      Apparently Mr. Obama never Read the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America! It seems that our worst enemy is now from within our borders and sitting in our most cherished position!!!

  60. When an agency goes rogue there is no fix other than to shut it down. The internal practices and bad habits are impossible to eliminate. We have no choice but to SHUT DOWN THE ATF.

  61. ATF still has restrainst upon its abilitys because the rulings protect the gun owners , there are no such provisions under FBI.
    How many know that INTERPOL has full access to our criminal justice system, yes a foreign internationaly integrated data base. Yet your weapons purchases are not privy to them and the fn UN eapons treaty.
    We need the ATF to remain true to its original charter and remain semi i dependent from FBI.
    HOw many realize that or Domestic Crime Fighters now have more people serving in overseas stations setting up very tight no civil rights other than vluntary UN Statements, police forces.

  62. ATF still has restrainst upon its abilitys because the rulings protect the gun owners , there are no such provisions under FBI.
    How many know that INTERPOL has full access to our criminal justice system, yes a foreign internationaly integrated data base. Yet your weapons purchases are not privy to them and the fn UN eapons treaty.
    We need the ATF to remain true to its original charter and remain semi i dependent from FBI.
    How many realize that or Domestic Crime Fighters now have more people serving in overseas stations setting up very tight no civil rights other than vluntary UN Statements, police forces

  63. The Federal government is out of control any attempt to reduce both it’s size and power is supported by me.

  64. This is a fn joke is it not, Se nsenbrenner is .
    The man has had since 1978 to acquire tens of millions in value and is one of staunchest Homeland Security freaks there are.
    Duringvtalks upon Homeland Srvurity he interupted all disdenters going do far sd to disabling mics and even turning off lights in meeting room.
    Mans gat head bigger tjan his own ass and gavels mertimg closed when he fells tesistance to jis will.
    In case dome people do mot understanf just what the f kind of internal security we havr in auS : FBI,CIA,DEA,ICE AND ABOUT 20 OTHER ALPHABET SOUPS ARE BUT COMPONRNTS OF oNE ORGANIZATION; DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY.
    Lets not fotget that it was the FBI’s ASSAULT TEAM, using National Guard equipment that massacred those women and children by their final assault upon Waco.
    Lets not forget Carnivore which came from Omnivore which actually was.where FBI hid after being caught in Cointelpro operations.
    The guns for drugs in Armena and elsewhere even Regans sales to Iran were not all DEA AND CIA AD.FBI WRRE THE DOMESTIC ORGANIZERS OF CRIME SYNDICATES THAT PROVIDED COURiers Etc. To fistribute and deliveroney back to dea and cia.
    Contra guns and Bush Walking huns and Mexico hun trade all set up on using FBI wires and intel along with some of their informants? Who lied by ommision to Congress.
    Jim sensenbrenner is part of problem of congressional outlawry and any thing that man voices favor towards is only for he and his campaign supporters.
    Koch is one of biggest money laundering orgs in politicsandmguesd who Semsenbrenner bends over and gets on knees for.
    We gain nothing towars 2nd liberty and freedoms but we will most assuredly lose once ATF hum owners records are no longer protected by ATF vharter.
    Ifbone smellsmshit you can bet thereis shit somewhere near by and thisbcampaign season has the biggestvpiles yet to vote for.
    Damn people study FBI and follow the blow jobs.

  65. ABso-Fing-lutely.
    Gung ho Idiots -Raiding Ares Arms was bull crap and a big part of the DOJ overreach – Don’t forget the DEA and the DHS in this.

  66. I’m not saying that the ATF shouldn’t be shut down, but there are many other Federal Agencies that I’d rather see shut down first. Starting with the IRS, do away with them and go to the proposed 15% flat tax on everything over $40K. Our tax code is so screwed and gets worse every year. I don’t make a lot of money (about 60K a year) but if I claim Zero deductions all year long and then was to file a 1040ez form at the end of the year, I would owe money. Yet people who either don’t work or make almost nothing (paying in almost no taxes) can get much more back thru child care credits and other deductions. I knew a women who paid in a little over 1100 in taxes and got back 6300 and some change. Now how the hell does that work? How are people entitled to more back than they paid in? The IRS needs to go first!!

  67. When it comes to our government, lately, I’m becoming a pessimist, All we’ve heard about almost any department in the federal government is screw ups. If it was these clowns from the ATF who were responsible for the debacle called ” Fast and Furious” then by their screw ups they deserve to be shut down. They can find honest jobs elsewhere. If anyone will hire them.

  68. The only reason alcohol and tobacco is regulated
    is to collect taxes, and the revenue doesnt cover the budget
    of the agency, so thats 2/3 that can go right off the top.

  69. “What do you think about eliminating the ATF?”

    Should have been done immediately after Waco!

    76 men, women and children were slaughtered so the ATF could put on a good show for the sake of securing a larger budget (they had a press room set up, but no medical support available).

    That is not the kind of organization I want my tax dollars supporting.

    1. You do realize that FBI ran the final assault that ended in the burning of the compound right? Because it sure doesn’t sound like it.

      If you want to blame at least direct it to the proper agency.

    2. “If you want to blame at least direct it to the proper agency.”

      I know who did what, I just don’t care. I don’t bother differentiating because I consider them both to be scum, and equally accountable.

      ATF planned the raid, arranged for no medical/fire department support, had a press room running before they even started, and had their PR agent calling news agencies to inform them of the impending raid. – Nah, no agenda there.

      Then when they got their asses handed to them, the FBI came in (with their serial murderer Horiuchi) and took over where ATF left off.

      You could say ATF set the pins up, and FBI knocked them down. But it all started with the ATF’s budget problems.

      There, feel better?

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