Gun Owners Lose at the Supreme Court

When the U.S. Supreme Court (SCOTUS) recently denied certiorari (review) in the case of Jackson v. City and County of San Francisco, gun owners were the losers. As Law Shield program lawyer Justin McShane in Pennsylvania wrote, “…[D]espite the clear language in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), there simply were not enough votes (four justices out of nine) to get the case reviewed or enough votes to gather a ‘GVR,’ as was advocated.” GVR means SCOTUS “Grants certiorari,” “Vacates” the decision below, and Remands the case to a lower court.” A 2007 San Francisco ordinance requires residents to keep handguns locked up or disabled with trigger locks when the gun owners are not carrying their weapons. Another part of the case dating to 1994 bans hollow-point bullets.

Petitioners—six San Francisco residents who keep handguns in their homes, as well as two organizations—filed suit to challenge this law under the Second Amendment in 2012. They lost at the district court level. Then, in March 2014, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals affirmed the lower court’s decision and left both the lockbox requirement and hollow-point ban intact.

In their petition for a hearing before the Supreme Court, the plaintiffs argued they had precedent on their side, citing the high court’s ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller. In that case, the justices ruled that under the Second Amendment, a gun owner has a right to self-defense with a gun available within the home.

But only two justices, Clarence Thomas and Antonin Scalia, voted to review the case, two short of the four justices necessary.

It's hard to see any silver lining in the Supreme's refusal to consider Jackson. As a result, a ban on hollow point ammo was allowed to stand as well as a ridiculous storage standard for guns in the home.
It’s hard to see any silver lining in the Supreme’s refusal to consider Jackson.

If San Francisco–area gun owners violate Section 4512 of the San Francisco Police Code, they are in a world of hurt. That ordinance “provides that ‘[n]o person shall keep a handgun within a residence owned or controlled by that person unless’ (1) ‘the handgun is stored in a locked container or disabled with a trigger lock that has been approved by the California Department of Justice’ or (2) ‘[t]he handgun is carried on the person of an individual over the age of 18’ or ‘under the control of a person who is a peace officer. The law applies across the board, regardless of whether children are present in the home. A violation of the law is punishable by up to six months of imprisonment and/or a fine of up to $1,000.

In a six-page dissent, Thomas, joined by Scalia, wrote that the San Francisco gun laws are “in serious tension with Heller” and that the prior court rulings had “failed to protect” the Second Amendment.

“San Francisco’s law allows residents to use their handguns for the purpose of self-defense, but it prohibits them from keeping those handguns operable for the purpose of immediate self-defense when not carried on the person,” Thomas wrote.

“Despite the clarity with which we described the Second Amendment’s core protection for the right of self-defense, lower courts, including the ones here, have failed to protect it,” Justice Scalia wrote in dissent. “Because Second Amendment rights are no less protected by our Constitution than other rights enumerated in that document, I would have granted this petition.”

By refusing to review the case, did the Supreme Court effectively neuter Heller and McDonald? Let us hear your thoughts in the comment section.

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Comments (99)

  1. Perhaps I’m unique but I am never “half asleep”. I’m either fully awake or fully asleep.This may be a result of getting calls in the middle of the night when I was a LEO. I’d get calls at 3AM to roll out for a bar fight or some other such call. (We didn’t have 24/7 coverage). As mentioned by someone, about having 5 seconds warning. I sleep not only with my pistol in a holster attached to the bed frame, but a “yappy” toy poodle right next to me on the other side of the bed. Plenty of warning. He barks every time an Armadillo scurries by my window.

  2. Norm. “Keep out of my house and I’ll leave you alone”. LOVE IT ! Locked or locked away gun, not in my house. Heard this years ago, it also applies to locked away guns,: “What do you call a man with a safety lock on his gun? Dead!

  3. This message is really written for all those upstate New Yorkers. Now is the the time for Cuomo and join the hunt for the two escaped convicts. Get the Gov. to go door to door w/o a gun. Let the anti-gun buffoon experience what the Police go through. Let Andrew explain his positions against self-defense. He does not have the balls to face the citizens.

  4. Roy: Thanks for the clarification. You are obviously very proficient with a firearm while half asleep. I, on the other hand, would probably lose the weapon in the bed and then try to engage while holding the weapon upside down. You have obviously developed the mussel memory to be proficient with the weapon under your pillow. Kudos! How long would you say it took you to become proficient at this and would you recommend that others train in this way?

    1. Tom,there is an old Chinese curse, yes it’s a curse: “May you live in interesting times”. Not only have I lived in interesting times, but in interesting places. (Read interesting as ‘Dangerous’). Don’t know if it’s muscle memory or finely honed instincts. I suppose that are those out there that would consider sleeping with a loaded pistol under your pillow as being dangerous and stupid, but it has served me well on numerous occasions and only the want-to-be- robber, killer or what ever was harmed or killed. As for how long this level of (call it) muscle memory takes, I really don’t know. As for others training, any skill that enhances your survival in an ever increasing ‘interesting’ world, is a skill worth pursuing.

  5. Tom, if you are addressing my comment, it was with ‘my gun under my pillow where I could touch it with my hand’ or to that effect. Didn’t say in my hand. One time doing this saved me, one hot night in Houston, TX. Girlfriend at the time liked to have an open window for a breeze. I woke up to noise. A low-life had cut the screen and was crawling through. In his hand was a knife. Didn’t stop to ask his intentions. Took my Webly .455 from under my pillow and shot,severely wounding the scumbag,but not killing him. (My aim was off, I was still half asleep.) Houston P.D. called it a justified shooting. Another time, scumbag, pried open the door to a motel room I was in with my wife and child. Again didn’t ask or want to know his intentions. This time it was a .357, from under my pillow. Capped his ass. ( Was fully awake, this time, so my aim wasn’t off.) LEO’s declared it a justified shooting. Just 2 examples. During a long life there have been several more.

    1. Roy I believe and appreciate your stories about Houston. It’s making me re-think and adjust where my 2 pistols are in my bedroom.

  6. Please explain how sleeping with our gun in your hand has saved your life on more than one occasion. I might just have to rethink my position on the matter.

  7. For those that say: “If you don’t have 5 seconds to pull your weapon from a nightstand ‘safe’, it’s already to late”. It takes less than a second to raise a weapon and pull the trigger. Perps will already have their weapons at the ready on the offhand chance that they might encounter someone. Your only chance and or hope is to be able to have your weapon available, not in a safe or even a nightstand drawer. Even if there are children in the house, they should not be in your bedroom during the night. Secure your weapon during the day but have it immediately available at night. I don’t have children, or anyone else to worry about. Over time, I’ve conditioned myself to sleep in such a way that my hand is always in contact with my weapon. This has saved my life on more than one occasion.

  8. The point is keep your guns. And take their stupid laws with a grain of salt. At least you will still be breathing. And one NUT JOB will be gone….

  9. The problem is, everyone is not as responcible as you or the majority of us. I truly believe that if you don’t have the few seconds it takes to open a “night stand” safe, it’s already too late.

  10. I don’t like more laws, but everyone should secure their weapons at all times. If it’s on your person, that’s secured. Even if it’s on the coffee table while you are setting there watching tv. But if you leave a gun unsecured where other people can get to it you are asking for trouble. Kids and stupid people can ruin your life in an instant. If someone breaks in and steals a weapon that was left out, not even attempted to be secured, well, I can see where the owner may be culpable. It’s just a good idea to make sure nobody else can get your guns.

    1. Indiana Steve I agree with secured weapons when unattended but how about in your home, in the nightstand while in bed. You have it near and available if an intruder breaks in or some other need arises. According to SF law it would be illegal to have it in the nightstand without a trigger lock. That would take precious time and depending on the circumstances could be fatal. Yes firearms not being carried should be locked away when no one is home or if you have kids in the house, either yours or others the weapons is being carried or locked up but to state that the firearm unless carried must be locked up regardless is limiting and foolish.. There are laws in place currently regarding the careless handing or securing of a firearm where others may get to it so what pile on additional laws other than to further attempts to make it more difficult to utilize firearms. Your home your rules.

    2. Yeah, at night I open my nightstand drawer just enough to slip my pistol in so the handle sticks out. I think anyone would have a hard time proving that my pistol was not securely locked away. I wasn’t trying to defend the entire law.

      I’ll make another quick comment about locking them in a safe. Here where I live I know someone that just bought a brand new safe to keep his rather extensive gun collection. He was proud of his new safe and told too many people about it. About 3 weeks after he got it he went home one night and found that someone stole his safe. I prefer good hiding places.

    3. If you don’t like more laws and don’t like having your God given rights taken from you then don’t say things like “everyone should secure their weapons at all times” when responding to unconstitutional laws like the ones in San Francisco. Instead say, “Keep out of my home and I’ll leave you alone.” And that goes not just to criminals, but to politicians as well.

  11. The looney left coast is fundamentally incompatible with gun ownership. GET OUT OF CA! I’ll never set foot in that socialist state again.

  12. Teach you’re kids respect for firearms and we wouldn’t need gun locks and such.But remember the gun doesn’t get up in the morning put in it’s magazine and think time to kill.It’s the person behind the trigger who could have a knife,hammer, bat,you get the idea.But our King thinks otherwise.

  13. Pray that Hon. Justice Ruth Ginsberg stays on the bench until after the 2016 election otherwise King Obama will appoint another leftie liberal to the SCOTUS

  14. If you don’t the five seconds it takes to retrieve your weapon from a “Night stand safe”, it’s already too late!

  15. I am a “gun nut” with five websites devoted to specific guns. I own many.

    Section 4512 sounds good to me. Where do you store your pistol when not carrying it? Leave it out on the table or hidden in the closet for burglars to take, kids to find? Locked up doesn’t mean inaccessible — loaded in a gun safe with a push-button lock next to your bed is fine. You think it needs to be under your pillow?

    Let’s not go from one extreme to the other?

    1. Well said! While I disagree with the hollow point restriction, making your weapons inaccessible to unauthorized persons is a cornerstone to responsible gun ownership. This, not only makes the home a safer place, it might just get some cheap guns off the street.

    2. No kids in my home, and I have already been visited by and scared off a potential intruder. My firearm is on my dresser at the ready, with a SureFire flashlight and a spare clip of ammo (actually a clip, not a magazine). The firearm is a S&W Governor loaded with alternating .410 shotshells of Winchester PDX-1 and Federal 000 Buck. If I run out of those, that’s when the full moonclip of .45ACP Hornady Critical Defense goes in. 911 gets called AFTER the event is over, and they will be told to bring a mop and bucket for clean up.

      As I’ve already said….Armed Civil Disobedience. They tell you to keep your guns locked up UNTIL needed, IGNORE them and do what makes sense for you, with safety being paramount.

    3. @Galaxie_Man:

      A couple of your passionate posts have really inspired me to do something today. Even though I live in Arizona and don’t have to worry about being in California, I have been lazy with what I do in my house.

      We have all heard the stories of the guy with a big gun collection who gets surprised by home invaders while not close to a gun, unable to defend himself and his family. It has happened. So I have made a permanent change. Today I strapped on my “small of back” holster for my Glock compact 10mm, and I will wear it every day, with the Glock either inside it or in my pocket. I wear size 2XL shirts, so if I have to go outside the Glock is totally hidden behind my back, This will become my permanent habit from now on at my house.

      I’m also carrying an extra 15 round mag in my cargo pocket, to compliment the 10 rounder in the Glock.

    4. @ss1 (and everyone) Thanks for your kind words. All it takes is making it a part of getting dressed, like putting on your underwear (or pants if you insist on going “Commando”, LOL!) That being said, you can be comfortable while carrying, but you must not get complacent or forgetful. Otherwise, you end up like the Capitol Police in D.C. leaving their service arms behind in the crapper, or having an accidental discharge. While my Governor is the home/bedside duty piece, I actually have 5 other handguns that I carry, depending on the weather, my clothing, or the situation. E-mail me if you’d like at:

      galaxie_man at yah0o period c0m (in code to throw off the spybots)

  16. As a great american once said,”when the people fear the government, there is tyranny”,”when the government fers the people, there is liberty”.
    Thomas Jefferson,1804

  17. CALIFORNIA is a SOCIALISTIC POLICE STATE and the Gun Laws State Wide are Tyrannical, Oppressive and a VIOLATION of the 2nd Amendment and are the tools of a DICTATOR!!! If you are not able to use a AR-15 or an AK-47 with 30 + Round Magizines to defend your life and your family when the TYRANNICAL ASSAULT comes to take: “YOUR CHILDREN, YOUR PROPERTY and/or YOUR LIFE then they surely want us DEAD!!! And, ANYTHING THAT HINDERS YOUR ABILITY TO SWIFTLY DEFEND “LIFE, LIBERTY OR PROPERTY” is a VIOLATION OF THE 2ND AMENDMENT & THE CONDTITUTION!!! By LOCK BOX, Trigger Guard or any other device!

  18. American gun owners are to blame !!!!!!! when are all gun owners going to stand up and say enough is enough .

  19. Lets me see…..In San Francisco if you have your gun under your pillow and some NUT JOB breaks in with a knife and trys to kill you and you shoot and kill him you might get fined a dab of Obama money and go to jail…..YOUR STILL BREATHING AND NUT JOB IS DEAD. NOT A HARD CHOISE FOR OLD DENNIS

  20. The Supreme Court is a case of double D’s under Obamas thumb! A double D is degreed and dickless!

    1. It appears that our Supreme Court has received their orders from his eminence to not let anymore controversial gun decisions get out of their field or jurisprudence. I am afraid that if I were a resident of that grand city, I would change my residence to some other place, considering the high cost of living, probably completely out of that state.

  21. Yesterday in Detroit we had 9 people shot,1 fatality at block party. Could we term this as a terrorist attack? It was black on black crime so it does not count in governments eyes. Do not all these politicians and gun haters realize that a criminal, by definition does not follow the law? Statistics in Detroit show that almost all gun crimes including murder are committed with a gun obtained ILLEGALLY, that means the criminal did not go through a background check or have his fingerprints taken and run through a national database. These gun laws and bans only affect law abiding citizens. I challenge these political leaders to look at this crime that happened at 8:30 pm on June 20 in the City of Detroit where 9 people were shot, 1 fatally at a block party attended by 300-400 people and not call this a terrorist attack, but they pick and choose which crimes they want to highlight their attempts to enact restrictive gun legislation. This law in San Francisco is illegal as is the Colorado, New York and other areas on magazine capacity. So a person can only have 10 rounds then they have to carry more magazines. Come live and work in Detroit for a few years and then tell me how you feel about guns and magazine capacity, after all Chief Craig said legally armed citizens help deter crime, not increase it.

  22. I do not subscribe to either side of the political picture. Frankly, I’m sick of both sides. Someone else in a recent blog made a very good point. All these blogs describing one or another party, state of group ALLOWING us to keep and carry firearms is absolute hogwash. We have the RIGHT, both unfettered and “not infringed”. That right is absolute, a constitutional right, and I am frankly sick of politicians who think they have the authority to shape our right in a way they think is correct. All that said, we sit and spin our wheels for nothing cause we keep voting these idiots into political office. Now the president (lower case intended) seems to think that pistol marched into that church and killed 9 people. The SOB holding it had nothing to do with the murders. Wake up people – the gun is inanimate! People kill people! Enforce the laws we already have. Stop the knee jerk reactions and for once show some spine and common sense. (All that said you should know I truly believe that background checks -real ones- need to be run for the purchase of any firearm. Close the “Gun Show Loophole”. That is where a lot of the crooks and kids get their weapons.

  23. The only answer, and the one I have been personally driven to, is Armed Civil Disobedience by total NON-COMPLIANCE. It is spreading across the country from sea to shining sea.

    The Constitution is written in plain language. I do not need a lawyer or judge to interpret and define it for me. You anti-gun nuts don’t like private gun ownership, then make your move to repeal the 2nd Amendment like The Constitution states. Otherwise, STFU! Here is what I follow:

    Amendment II

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    1). The militia IS ME, not the National Guard (which wasn’t established until 1913)
    2). The “State” referred to is not a federation or government entity, but a “state of being”…..MEANING FREE!
    3). “shall not be infringed” means I pretty much now ignore any firearms laws (local, state, and federal). The Second Amendment is the only gun law this nation needs.

    I may indeed be arrested, prosecuted, and jailed by the tyrants. So be it….because it will be that I disposed of an evil doer committing heinous acts of violence in a gun-free kill-zone. At least I will be alive to tell the tale.

    Until then, to the tyrants I say leave me alone, or come try and take them. You will get the ammo first…screaming hot and at supersonic speeds.

  24. The tendency of govt to assume everyone is as safe as they are without guns is ludicrous. They have guards and fire power protecting them. Why then do they feel that the average mom and pop don’t deserve the same right to protect their family? It is pure selfishness.

  25. This doesn’t mean the CA law is Constitutional. It simply means SCOTUS chose not to take the case. They will eventually select a case that will decide this issue once and for all.

    1. You may be correct in that the SF Fantasy World City Council will be encouraged to overreach still more in future anti-self defense ordinances and those may actually come before the court. But even winning isn’t winning: few permits to possess firearms have been granted in the People’s Republic of D.C. since Heller.

  26. fishhunter. I too am a Vietnam vet, 68 yrs. old. Trampling on the Constitution is not new to Obama. As far back as Jimmy Carter, then forward, presidents and congress have ignored the hard earned rights written into our Constitution. The 2nd Amendment has been attacked by nearly every presidency since. Draconian laws are passed every few years to restrict gun ownership. The so-called Semi-automatic Law, from a few years back banning semi-automatic rifles and hand guns from holding more than 10 rounds even took in my fathers 100 yr old (at the time) Remington .22 cal rifle. It holds 15 rounds. The answer is not more gun laws, but less knee-jerk reaction demanding the banning of all guns when tragic things like S.C. happen.

  27. Mark you are completely wrong. Obama has only appointed Kagan – with the consent of the senate.

  28. I take umbridge at your comment categorizing all Democrats as Constitution haters. Any universal classification is destined to be wrong and yours is, quite wrong. That being said, I could agree with your statement if you had left out the party name – there are truly haters of the Constitution on both sides of the aisle and even in the middle. To classify as you have keeps you from finding allies and forces you to accept rhetoric by toeing a political agenda set by elitists – no matter the party.

    1. Strongly agreed, Mickey. I am a left-leaning gun owner and second amendment rights advocate, among many others. Though I no longer identify as a democrat, as I’ve seen the same partisan dogmatic tendencies in them as I have among the republicans, I know from a life of experience that the last thing democrats hate is the Constitution. The difference is in values, priorities, and interpretation. One can find issues on either side of the isle in which a given party will cherry pick the Constitution to fit their ideological bent.

      Left or Right or neither, I believe it’s important to leave partisan dogmatism at the door and for us to all see each other as allies in the constant struggle to maintain our rights.

    2. Thats a real nice comment Alex, the problem is, if you look at all of the gun control enacted in California the last 10 years, they overwhelmingly come from Democrats. And if you look at the votes in Congress, party line votes, all Democrats voting for more gun control. The voting record speaks for itself. And you cant deny it. Do the research.

  29. I live in San Francisco and keep a loaded handgun on my night stand at all times. I defy the city to do anything about it. I have a constitutional right to protect myself and my family in my home.

  30. I live in San aFrancisco and keep a loaded handgun on my night stand at all times. I defy the city to do anything about it. I have a constitutional right to protect myself and my family in my home.

  31. The refusal to grant cert does not affirm the lower decision, it simply means that not enough justices on the Supreme Court felt the need to repeat its rulings in Heller and McDonald for the benefit of the lower courts. On its part, the 9th Circuit is unquestionably disregarding established precedent, so its ruling not only has no value as precedent in any circuit, it is affirmatively discredited everywhere even within the 9th Circuit.

    The answer is to stop electing Democrats who officially hate the Constitution and America at the core of their party platform.

  32. As a 71 year old Viet Nam vet, I have always respected the law and have highly respected the Supreme Court. It seems that “The times they are a changing”. Every day it seems, President Obama does something that is in conflict with the Constitution and the law. It appears that the so-called leaders of our nation do not respect the law and I fear this lack of respect is flowing down to the everyday citizen. Many only obey the law because of fear of being caught and put into jail, not because of a sense of right and wrong. I believe the Supreme Court has become political, therefore buffer the president and his wishes – right or wrong.

  33. What happened to the Federal Law commonly known as LEOSA which is short for Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act 18 U.S.C. 926C which allows a “qualified retired law enforcement officer” to posses or carry a concealed firearm. A retired LEO is no longer employed by the agency or jurisdiction from which he retired and has no powers of arrest other than those of a “citizens arrest” so the language in San Francisco’s law allowing peace officers to possess firearms does not apply. The Courts failed to take this group of people into account–again!

  34. When your conscience won’t let you vote for liberal agendas, and because you need to protect the integrity of the Constitution, and because you’re of borderline moral character, you vote to ‘not’ to hear a case that might otherwise cause you to deny your liberal friends their wishes.

  35. People have to remember that most of the judges on Supreme Court were appointed by Obama. So of course they are going to follow his liberal agenda

    1. Two of the justices are appointed by Obama, four total by democratic presidents, and five total by republicans. But forget the facts, let’s just blame Obama and call it a day. Much easier that way and requires no thought.

    2. Your frustration is certainly understandable, Mark, but Obama has appointed two justices to the Supreme Court.
      Elena Kagan – appointed 2010
      Sonia Sotomayor – appointed 2009

    1. I have kin in the great state of californication and they were going to Nevada to purchase firearms and ammo. It is a beautiful state but is so burdened by law it is almost impossible just to build a house f’crying out loud.

      Modifying an existing home is actually worse. You have to pay for an environmental impact inspection just to start. They wanted to add a new front door and add a foot or so for the new frame and combing (sp?) which required a new landing. The costs were in the tens of thousands of dollars.

      To say S.F. is fruity ignores the rest of the state, but I could live with that.

  36. What the refusal does not do: make any pronouncement on the underlying law.

    We’re this a case more ripe for hearing, there may have been the votes for it. The Scalia/Thomas vote was really non-indicative of anything except to show themselves in general alignment with gun owners.

    We’re the underlying cases a bit more compelling one way or the other- say that one of the parties suffered the confinement and monetary penalty threatened, this vote (vote, not decision) may well have been different.

    Maybe you won’t agree with me, but ask yourself, if Scalia and Thomas voted in favor – why didn’t Roberts also?

  37. I believe the Supreme Court cannot justify why they would not hear this case the fact is they should have heard the case the other justices didn’t want to hear the case because they know that they would have overturn the law due to the fact they have already ruled on this type of case before that’s why there should be term limits on surpreme court judges in my opinion one should not be able to be a Supreme Court judge until they decide to no longer be one I believe 10 years is all that they should be allowed to serve as a Supreme Court justice

  38. the problem is gun CONTROL
    these people that go into these places and start shooting never go to a police station where everyone is carrying a gun, why because they will shoot back

    So you set limits on the public for their own safety, the only problem with that is the only ones listening are the ones that wouldnt do it in the first place. LAMBS to the slaughter

    1. There have been several shootings at police stations. Remember the sniper who couldn’t miss who shot and killed one officer, wounded another and missed a female in PA, followed by a month long manhunt? There have been others, too. Keep the arguments factual.

  39. It sickens me that someone would be so evil that they would commit such an atrocity in a church. It’s the battle that has raged since Cain killed Able…good vs evil. There are two things that cannot be legislated into existence…morality and sanity. I’m a 43 year veteran law enforcement officer..and this much I know….If only one person in that church had been legally armed AND trained this could have ended much differently. To try to gain political points from this tragedy is just wrong and those who attempt it are no less evil than the perpertrator of this most heinous of crimes.

    1. If any person had a gun and could shoot it regardless of whether it was legal or not, that murderer would have been stopped. Just start ignoring the bans and carry for your own protection. If everyone carried everywhere then the law would have to be changed due to overwhelming public support. An illegal gun killing that murderer would have made our case for more armed citizens in every school, church, office building and government office.

  40. The SCOTUS has checked out, they allow laws they determined to be unconstitutional to remain in effect, pending a review and correction from Congress which will never come. Bulk data phone collection is a perfect example. We are down to two branches of government.

  41. This is sad ,however what do you expect from the socialist state of California. They have stripped the people of gun rights from the beginning,my advice start looking for more acceptable gun right states like Texas then move there good luck .

  42. With that ruling, it must be only fair and fitting that the state of California furnish to ALL LEGAL GUN OWNERS a safe or lockable container or device for EVERY LEGAL GUN owned by the legal residents of California. At the least these devices should be tax deductible as they are REQUIRED BY THE STATE GOVERNMENT.
    I still wonder what BHO has on chief justice to make him turn over like he has. It must be very bad for him to change so much.

  43. People in California need to vote with their feet — Move out of the state and stop letting your taxed income and labor fund the tyranny against you. Let the liberal socialists live in their paradise wondering why nothing they do seems to work.

  44. A large Central Gov. controlling our lives,a Gov. controlled Banking System,a Gov controlled Judiciary,intolerance for dissenting opinion,a Gov controlled by one Party,aState controlled Media, destruction of fundemental freedoms ,a State run health-care system. Gov controlled free Education…….Barack Obamas Amertca? Try Adolf Hitlers Reich where Gun Ownership was banned. Amazing how Socialists all sound the same.

  45. With this recent tragedy in an S.C. Church, the gun grabbers will so be out in force. On last night new saw Barrak Hussein make allusions to more gun control laws being needed to keep people safe. The shooter in this sad tale was an out & out racist who was seen on his Facebook post wearing a jacket with racist patches attached. A hand gun was just a convenient tool. If he didn’t have access to firearms, he would have used some other means of killing these people. The government can’t control ‘racist physcos’ so they go after things they can control, firearms.

    1. Yeah, Roy, and I say this: tell Obama to put a gun on the table,along with a loaded mag. The tell him to wait, while the gun picks up the mag, loads and cocks itself. Then tell Obama to watch the gun kill somebody. Of course, Obuma (yes, I meant that), like many people in the US, doesn’t have the brains or common sense to see the logic in what I said above: guns don’t kill people….people kill people. I wish I could testify before Congress and show them the same scenario. Maybe they’d wake up then.

  46. It never ceases to amaze me how politicians always jump on the anti gun band wagon when a tradgety occurs. Which is infrequent yet horrible. But you never hear about the daily occurance of self defense and lives saved with a gun in this country. That’s not the kind of news liberal organizations want in the news. If we are ever disarmed we will no longer be citizens we shall be subjects of the realm. Unfortunately
    People will always find ways to kill,whether it’s a gun, knife. Baseball bat Sword, car , or a homemade bomb. But to disarm law abiding citizens will only create more victims.

  47. Quote from Obama today per Fox News: Once again, the president said, someone who wanted to do harm “had no trouble getting their hands on a gun.”


    The thing Obama needs to realize before he spouts off like that is criminals never have trouble getting their hands on a gun, even in gun control areas. I can’t wait for this stooge to get out of office.

    One problem I personally see from the SC shooting is the shooters father GAVE HIM a 45 for his 21st birthday. Giving should not be allowed. Just now on The Kelly File on Fox News, I hear that his friends say he was a “pill popper and had trouble with the law”. This father needs to go to jail for gifting him a gun. A message needs to be sent so people understand they better not gift a gun. There should be no gifting. People need to qualify on their own. This idiot would not have qualified.

    1. This is the time for some of our Republican candidates to rise up and talk the talk that we are talking on these forums. I’m tired of pansy candidates for President. I want a strong leader!!

  48. Just a thought-Perhaps Obama, Holder and Sharpton bear some responsibility because of the constant drumbeat on racial divide in this country.Since Obama came into office I feel much of the progress that has been built has been torn down.Political snipes, race baiting ,rioting all seem to be the tool of this administration.Case in point is Baltimore.Perhaps the lunatic who killed those innocent fellow Americans was pushed over his hateful edge by irresponsible rhetoric.

  49. The horrific tragedy in Charleston illustrates how completely out of touch lawmakers are. We must defend ourselves now even in places like Churches.How incredibly sad.

    1. steveb. In some states, CCW in churches, et al is illegal, in some, it’s not.
      When this is the case, churches regulate this. As a Jew, I attended temple regularly, until the Rabbi noted my weapon as I stood up and it was briefly exposed. (In the state in which I then lived, it was legal to carry your weapon anywhere, except Federal and State buildings, even if a business had a ‘No Weapons Policy”). The Rabbi was incensed that I would carry a deadly into a ‘Holy Place’. Ask him if he could provide protection for me in case of an attack. Of course, he couldn’t. This was a time when there had been several attacks on Jewish houses of worship. Found a place to worship that welcomed me an my pistol, in light of the recent attacks.

    1. Butch, don’t live in California, live in Texas, but carry in my own home, anyway. Just the smart thing to do as I see it, with home invasions on the news nearly every night.

  50. Bud, you have got to live in a civilized state, where the right to carry a weapon and protect yourself is recognized as a fundamental right. Will not go anywhere my gun isn’t welcome.

  51. California is such a douchebag state, I can’t understand why anyone would want to live. there. Taxes are high, water is scarce, and gun owners are demonized. And with Gov. Moonbeam, things will never get better. You can’t get anymore to the left than California. Well maybe Hawaii is just as liberal leaning, but at least in Hawaii, we have great weather and scenery. Quite frankly, I’ve never met anyone from California in all my life that I felt was playing with a full deck. Maybe there is someone there, but I’ve never met them.

  52. This ruling is fantastic! And why stop there? Since objects cause harm – and not people – we should also ban swimming pools (b/c of drowning victims!), vehicles (so many accidents!), fatty food (hey, they’re working on that!), cosmetics (so many chemicals!), electricity (bad, bad, bad!), cigarettes, and so much more! There are so many things which cause people harm, we must ban as many as possible!

    In order to protect you, we must imprison you.

    Please, just shutup and comply. It’s for your own good!

  53. What they are saying is simply this-if you are intent on a violent illegal act do it in San Fran. Your chances of being shot in SF are way down say compared to Charlotte . Want to rob, rape or steal? Better do it in SF rather than in Atlanta. Shoot a law officer? Dont do it in Texas! Beat the crap out of a judge? Do it there -not down South-cause chances are pretty good you wont see tomorrow.The rule of American Law is still taken seriously here in the South. You can keep your lawless liberal states .

  54. Just as Archangel said, SFPD is not going door to door searching and would require probably cause to do so any how. It is in fact a stupid law, however it is an isolated law that is not being actively enforced. Rather it is a law that is only used when a crime or accident occurs. IE a way for the DA to pile on charges against an accused citizen.

    That said, like you all, I see this as a failure by SCOTUS in that they can plainly see it is in violation of self defense within one’s own home and chose not to strike down a bad law. To me this is not any different than walking past an unattended fire at a campsite in the wilderness. Affectively the court is saying that we don’t need to act on this until it becomes a forest fire.

    Unfortunately history has proven that laws like this eventually become a vehicle for a power crazy government official to abuse.

    Just more proof that we the people are no longer in control what so ever.

    As far as when something might actually happen to create significant change. Something like this requires consensus. Consensus will likely never be achieved by peaceful means within the USA because our propaganda and media machine are designed to prevent just that from happening. As many famous leaders have said through out history, “The time for diplomacy has passed”.

  55. Give up your peace, love, flowers in your hair hippy-dippy ways in CA and join us in the ever growing movement of “ARMED CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE!” It is occurring in very blue states like CT, NY, MD, WA, and OR. We no longer fear the bluster of government to enforce their unconstitutional, intolerable acts, because they know THEY would start a shooting war they could not win. They have, in reality, been doing what we wanted anyway….LEAVING US ALONE!

  56. Once the government becomes lawless, the law holds no sway.

    Always remember that there is a difference between being ALLOWED to do something and being ABLE to do it.

  57. It is no surprise. SCOTUS has been loaded with liberal ex-lawyers over the past few years, and they clearly have proven that they can offer up decisions that have nothing to do with the letter or spirit of the 2nd Amendment. It’s nothing short of an outrage when nine black-robed ex-lawyers can sentence a law-abiding gun owner to certain death by a home invader hell-bent on murder, but this is exactly what the above decision amounts to if that gun-owner obeys the law as it is written, and by doing so hopes to avoid prison or a fine.

    So which is it, Mr. Homeowner? Obey the law and die, or disobey the law and live?

  58. the question is

    WHEN will the people wake up

    and know they must remove and replace

    their current government to regain FREEDOM

  59. I hold a Juris Doctor and know the U.S. Constitution inside and out, and seems to know it better than the SC Judges…the 2nd Amendment is clear on this is ISSUE…”Shall not be infringed” never obay and illegal LAW, even from the SC or BO..!!!

  60. Just like Congress failing to stand up to defend their function and duties under the Constitution while Oblamer runs amok, now SCOTUS fails to step up and defend their function to require enforcement of their prior rulings – another unconstitutional law like this will have to be fought elsewhere and taken back to the court in hopes they will sack up this time and do their duty – in the meantime, why would any San Francisco gun owner obey this stupid law? At least for now, the SFPD isn’t going door to door verifying.

  61. I think it’s all that sunshine in California. It softens peoples brains. Laws were meant to be broken, especially such stupid, dangerous and potentially lethal laws such as this. A person has the right to protect themselves, especially in their own homes. No mush for brains, left wing, bleeding heart , gun grabbing/hating, liberal will change that.

    1. @Roy Holbert:

      Actually Roy it would be quite interesting if someone did a historical sociological study on how California became like this. My gut instinct is that it has a lot to do with the Hollywood crowd, but also I believe that free living liberals have gravitated to the beach cities, and because it takes a lot of money to live there, they have more political clout.

      I have lived in Southern California 3 years since 2000, beach and inland communities. I was not into guns then, but I was absolutely shocked when I discovered that 50% of the amazing Glamis Sand Dunes had been permanently closed just to preserve a tiny, ugly plant called the Milk Vetch. I was stunned that people were kept from enjoying so much beautiful land. That’s when I realized that California was different.

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