Remington Lays Off 126 More in New York

Remington Logo

This week, Remington Arms Co. laid off another 126 workers at its factory in Ilion, New York, according to media reports. In August, 105 people were laid off at Remington’s plant.

Remington Arms LogoRemington has been making firearms in the village since 1816, and at this rate, it will be interesting to see if the facility makes it to its 200th birthday in a few years.

The company employs about 1,300 people in Ilion, a village of about 8,000 people located about halfway between Syracuse and Albany.

Earlier this year, Remington announced plans to open a firearms plant in Huntsville, Ala., creating 2,000 jobs there.

Company officials indicated New York’s adoption of the Safe Act played a role in its decision to move manufacturing to Alabama. The Safe Act prohibits the sale of high-capacity, military-style rifles in New York.

In May 2013, the company was critical of the SAFE Act, saying on its Facebook page that, “We believe the NY SAFE Act is unconstitutional and was passed in a questionable fashion.” New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo has said the decision by Remington Arms to lay off workers was part of the company’s overall goals. “The layoffs at Remington Arms are a function of Remington moving to the state of Alabama and consolidating operations all across the country,” Cuomo said during a press conference at the New York State Fair in August.

Here are other Shooter’s Log stories about gun makers leaving New York facilities:

 What do you think about the Remington’s layoffs? Share your views in the comment section.

The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt!'s blog, The Shooter's Log, is to provide information—not opinions—to our customers and the shooting community. We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. The information provided here does not represent the views of Cheaper Than Dirt!

Comments (223)

  1. NS: Perplexing reply, there is some correctness about the smart victors, but I know of no such thing as dead victors. When in the dead state, the dead knows not what the living do, and vice versa. Some of my dead relatives, from WWWII and VN (lucky no one from Korea except for a lost elbow), gave the ultimate, and have left the cares of this world to the living; they are now freed from the demands of the cause. Generals, kings and presidents are just as dead as the boys they ordered to their deaths, they just lived a little longer. Only the ones left alive talk and write about whatever it is that makes something worth fighting for, and can claim the spoils, if victorious. No one gets out of this place alive, so living and dying for something makes for a worthy life, and determines one’s mettle when alive. Nathan Hale did it for his country, Jesus Christ did it for all the people.

    1. NS: WWWII is fat fingers battling the small keys, and lousy proof reading, looks like the keys won. I see good nit-picking, while the lice chew away at the good old 2A, especially in your defense of Buffalo. That Nazi town (I think Fair is searching for the Swastika) must be breeding the new generation of brown shirts. Outlaw the Nazi party in Germany, but reincarnate it in Buffalo is lawful! NY has come full circle, and now embraces depotism as the god (Cuomo) to follow.

    2. NS: Good dialogue while it lasted. Looks like we are the remainder. So you take your ball and go home and I’ll do the same. Our paths will cross somewhere else on this log.

  2. fair

    Why don’t you just look it up on YouTube, or ask Fox News for a copy of the Report. I’m sure the’ll gladly send you a copy on any format of your choice, for a price quote.


    It’s one thing to say it and write a book about is. It’s another thing to actually make the attempt and survive to talk about it. Until you do, then and only then, you have BRAGGING Rights.

    1. NS: Hope the book was not too boring. Smart victors do not brag, and good poker players do not count the money until the game is over. With all this long winded dialogue, of mine, my conclusion to all this is: you do not feel an imminent major attack on the 2A, all this 2A hype is blown out of proportion, no action is required on your part, and this now can just be a big word game.

    1. City of Buffalo law, NY state law, City ordinance. I don’t see the difference when either one of these provide a way for cops to steal other people’s property. Stealing other people’s property is wrong in any case. What compensation does the thief give to the victim? Just because a law makes the act legal, stealing is immoral and cannot be justified under any circumstances.

    2. fair

      The 15-day Suspension Clause is in the City of Buffalo Operating Charter, Not the State of NY. It only applies to the City of Buffalo. No other city in the State of NY, has this Provisional Clause. It APPLIES too the City of Buffalo ONLY…

    3. Non Sequitur – I wonder why someone hasn’t challenged the Suspension Clause? Wait, on second thought, challenging anything in America’s courts is a Russian Roulette game of chance. I’ll use a Forrest Gump quote speaking on life, “It’s like a box of chocolates, you never know what you gonna get. Under no circumstances will I ever live in Buffalo, NY.. I’m looking at that video in the story where the police chief is talking about confiscation guns. I’m having a hard time comprehending. There must be a swastika in that picture somewhere.

      The story reminds me of the British murdering Americans on Lexington Green 1775. From an affidavit of one of the soldiers who was present. “The British troops approached us rapidly in platoons, with a general officer on horseback at their head. The officer came up to within about two rods of the centre of the company, where I stood, the first platoon being about three rods distant. They there halted. The officer then swung his sword, and said, ‘Lay down your arms, you damned rebels, or you are all dead men. Fire!’ “

    4. fair.

      On Lexington Green, There was a Gun Shoot, and the British responded in kind. To this, I don’t recall anyone ever establishing where that was fire or what direction it came from. I suspect, it was someone hunt for food. Fired his rifle, and the rest is history.

    1. fair

      Sir, you really need to read the Police Reports of what actually happened, instead of listening the Fox News Network version of what happened. You’ll find it informative, about what information that wasn’t said.

    2. I wouldn’t be surprise to learn that the news didn’t tell all the story. I didn’t know Fox covered the story. What I saw in the article the cops were talking about taking someone’s guns. If the state hadn’t demanded the citizens register their guns in the first place, confiscation would not even be on the table. I get perturbed when government starts confiscating citizen’s property for any reason.

      The article said, “Under state law, when a permit holder passes, his or her estate has only 15 days to either dispose of the firearms or surrender them to authorities. . . . .” Nothing but a trap for cops to steal citizen’s property is the way I see that one.

      “Buffalo Police Commissioner Daniel Derrenda announced that his agency will dispatch officers to collect guns that belonged to recently deceased pistol permit holders.” That item raises a red flag immediately. This is another problem that begins with registration. In my opinion the cops do not have a right to know what guns I have, let alone break down my door and steal my property as I have see cops do at times.

      The cops are talking about confiscating guns from multiple dead permit holders. Now the plot thickens. They are not just taking one citizen’s property, they are after thousands of citizen’s property. The families should be able to inherit the decease person’s property without the benefit of cop interference.

      I would love to know what justifies cops stealing citizen’s property. What part of the story did the news leave out?


    The only reason I made the comment is through observation of others’ comments. Conservative’s wanting to “dismantle” the Constitution, in favor of building a Document centered around the Right to keep and bear Arms. Tell’s me you DON’T believe in the Constitution, because if you did. You have to take the Constitution as a WHOLE and not as a “Jig-Saw Puzzle” of Likes and Dislikes. It like taking only your favorite parts of the Holy Bible, and trashing the rest.

    1. Boycott – You sure nailed this one correctly. I especially like your previous comment, ” Like the dog with the bone in his mouth, looks into the water, then tries to grab the bone from the dog he sees, and then he has lost the real bone to his own reflection.”

      Alabama gun owners listened to a bunch of lying, self serving lawyers, dropped the bone secured in their mouth, and replaced it with a rattlesnake ready to strike at any moment.

    2. NS: Pick or chose Biblical verses, and reject Biblical hermeneutics, starts just another cult in history. An attack on one verse is an attack on the whole, and is countered with Christian apologetics. Pick and chose the Constitution and the US just becomes another nation in the history books. Nations rise, nations fall. Most major powers in history decay from the inside and fall because of their shortcomings. Just as your body functions as a whole, an attack, wound, or disease to one part of it can threaten the life of the whole body. A very strong point attack is being waged against the 2A, and reinforcements are required to counter this strong point force. The reason 2A is on center stage is because of the battle being waged over it. A hundred or so years ago this would not even be on the stage or in a side show, today it is a major issue. For a much broader frontal attack on the Constitution I highly recommend reading Philip Hamburger’s article in Imprimis, Sept. 2014 (Hillsdale College), “The History and Danger of Administrative Law.” This article exposes many ways our Constitutional Liberties are threatened through governmental bureaucracies. The mess in Alabama (many post about it), is just another twist on this administrative law approach to remove 2A rights.

  5. GOA reports – In 2013, Maryland banned the possession or transfer of what it calls “assault weapons” and prohibited the transfer of so-called “large capacity magazines.”

    Chief Judge Catherine Blake, a Clinton-appointee to the U.S. District Court for the District of Maryland, sided in favor of the law.

    After assuming the Maryland law “infringes on the Second Amendment,” she then ruled that its infringement upon the right to keep and bear arms could be justified as a means to better ensure Maryland’s public safety ends.

    1. Fair: Point taken…

      But do you really believe we are in danger of that same kind of thing happening in our neck of the woods? I believe for that to happen here, the political climate would have to change so much that we would not recognize it as Alabama.

      I would not choose to live in that environment.

    2. Something like Maryland’s case may be far in the future for Alabama gun owners. Our actions or inactions can cause freedoms to be lost for future generations. We have a responsibility to look out for our grandchildren. Even if we think the possibility of a case similar to Maryland is soooo remote, that slim possibility is not worth the risk for me. At one point I’m sure the gun owners of Maryland never thought a gun grabbing federal judge would take away their second amendment rights.

      After assuming the Maryland law “infringes on the Second Amendment,” the federal judge then ruled that its infringement upon the right to keep and bear arms could be justified as a means to better ensure Maryland’s public safety ends. The Maryland case and the federal judge’s ruling is a pure unadulterated definition of “strict scrutiny.”

      I don’t know all the circumstances of this case. But most likely it developed the same way Alabama’s new constitutional gun rights amendment developed. One lawyer in the Alabama legislature, in the dead of night, without any public debate, duped enough of his colleague to get the amendment on the ballot. Then the lawyer outright lied to gun groups about the real meaning of the new amendment so the gun groups would support the new amendment. I’m still trying to get my head around NRA’s support. They of all people should have known better than to place judge invented rules and definitions into a state constitution.

  6. Rod S: Somehow I’m not seeing your post I got via e-mail in the forum, but I’d like to make a comment on what you said about worrying about our Military personnel who are getting pink slips…

    In 31 years of wearing the uniform and another 16 years as a DOD Civilian (I currently work with and have supervisory responsibility for Soldiers), I have never experienced higher quality Enlisted Soldiers than I observe today. They are staunchly patriotic, articulate, and responsible citizens. I’d go to war and trust them with my life in a heartbeat.

    But if I read between the lines on your concerns, the fear is not about the grunts, but with leadership… I’m not in a position to be critical in a public forum about my Chain of Command, but I share your frustration that we are going through a downsizing that is cutting good people loose.

    We fail to learn the historical lessons of downsizing. From administration to administration, we battle the issue of Military strength. It is because that trend is a strategy to ensure the Military does not get too influential in government? I don’t know that answer…

    But I can make one observation that I find disturbing: In general, our senior Military Leaders are more politically focused than I’ve ever observed. I believe that focus discourages them from telling our elected officials the hard truth. Those that go along are less likely to get the proverbial pink slip.

    1. Yes sir, U read between the lines just right. He’s in the Air Force, and has a High security job. Said he was worried about all the good help being done away with. some have 16, to 18 years, & getting axed. I know that they are down sizing, but he said that they were being replaced with rookies that didn’t have a clue. He said they were cut to the bone, and the new guys act like they didn’t care, and they haves lives in there hands. He’s A jet mechanic for classified B-1 Bomber, and travels all over the place. Has just returned from South Korea. I’m sure you’ve heard of Anniston Army Depot. My father retired from there before it was Basically shut down by Bill Clinton. And thank U for your service Sir.

    2. AC: Two things to be on alert with the liberals controlling DC: forming a political army within the army to keep tabs on it (such as the Waffen SS in the German Army), and second not declaring war and leaving the backdoor open for their escape (like in VN, Iraq, etc.), if it turns sour on them. Slam the barroom back door shut, when the brawl starts, and don’t let them out of the fight that they start.

  7. I made a few comments when this log first started, been a lot of great comments made. Alaska I never could find any other location to give U about my friend. But, back to the log, I’ve been keeping up as much as possible, I too live here in Alabama, and have 12 years military behind me, and have bought a copy of the Constitution, and plan to learn as much as I can about it. I have family in the military right now, and they’re the ones that have it bad. They’re in a military that is being destroyed by a handful of our Gov. One has told me that people were being discharged left & right, for some made up bull. They said at the rate it’s going, that there want be enough to defend our own country. And said they were wondering what is really going on. I just hope that everyone that took the OATH, that we are all on the same side, regardless how we think. Our country is slowly slipping away, but is picking up speed. God bless our troops, & AMERICA!!

    1. NS: For me to communicate a point, I would not recognize, or treat one as a conservative, if they state no believe in the Constitution, or are hiding it under some other disguise. Meaningful dialogue is jeopardized in such a setting. They would have to be exposed as liberals to make any headway in discourse. Expose them for what they are, or they will have you chasing your tail. My def of a flake, “what they say, what they think, and what they do, are all different, all politicians are flakes, not all flakes are politicians.” I think you must be describing the rhino GOP politician, they are for sure flakes, even donning a cloak of conservatism to make it look good. Thanks for the post comment.

    1. Naaaaa, that means I’d have to dig them up and I’m not going to do that just to give them away.

  8. Just in case anyone on The Shooter’s Log doubts my commitment or dedication to my country let me explain. I am a 70 year old USMC decorated Vietnam War combat veteran. I’ve seen more than most see in five lifetimes. I hope you never have to see or experience some of what I’ve seen. I heard my country calling at the ripe old age of seventeen. As part of the induction process I swore an oath of allegiance in revenant part, “I, _________, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; . . . . ”

    Oath Keeper David Rivers said, “For me, the Marine Corps is the epitome of all for which the United States stands. Duty and honor to the Constitution, as written, creating a system under which a Nation of Sovereign States are governed by a Sovereign people bound by the freedom to act and take responsibility for those acts. A group of individuals making up a whole, sworn and dedicated to the preservation of the American way of life so help us God.” David Rivers. Marine Infantry, Vietnam Combat Veteran

    Every Marine is a rifleman. For this reason, the Marine Corps ensures the war fighting capabilities of every Marine are enhanced with extensive weapons training. The M-1 and the M-14 was my duty issue rifle. I loved that old version M-14. I slept with that M-14 many nights. Imagine my excitement when Ruger came out with the Mini-14. I own two of the first version Mini-14 made. I just received from Cheaper Than Dirt, eight (8) TAPCO magazines in the mail this morning for the Mini. (TAPCO is the best magazine.)

    From Lexington Green and Concord Bridge, through every conflict (”from the Halls of Montezuma, to the shores of Tripoli,” and from the Sands of Iwo Jima to the mountains of Afghanistan), up to today, American fighting men have fought, bled, and died to preserve our liberty. Now it is your watch. Now it is your turn to guard our Republic and the liberty of the American people.

    I served my time defending the Constitution against foreign enemies some fifty years ago. The past 30 years I’ve done what I can to fight and defend the Constitution against all enemies domestic. I’ve found our domestic enemies to be more formidable than foreign enemies. Domestic enemies operate with deception. They operate in the dead of night without any public discourse. Domestic enemies are us.

    1. fair: Thank you for your service…….but you pushed my button….

      Your little romp through the jungles and been there done that crap does NOT give you the right to be abusive or disrespectful of anyone. I told you before that there are others on this site that may just share those same kind of knowledge, wisdom, and experiences.

      FWIW I served 5 campaigns in those same jungles of Vietnam and later in Panama and was AD until after Desert Storm. I still serve as a counter terrorism trainer- so please don’t presume to lecture me about duty, honor, and responsibilities a citizen.

      Your status and experience as a veteran does not entitle you to dismiss other views. In fact, you should embrace the concept of free speech.. You should appreciate the fact that fellow conservatives voted at all. Your faithful service in support of this Great Country and the Constitution not withstanding, nobody wants to hear us old farts ranting and looking for special attention just because we chose to actively defend the Constitution at risk of life and limb.

      Nobody wants to hear it- I suggest that we hang up this thread and let the fellow members of this site discuss issues without being called retards, stupid, or idiots.

    2. Alabama Conservative – Well likewise Sir. Thank you for your service. Maybe you are right, “nobody wants to hear us old farts ranting.” That is a frightening proposition. Us old farts are suppose to be the pillars of the community and teaching the young folk about the perils of disregarding clearly defined history. As Neal Boortz use to say, “Somebody’s gotta say it.” I think it was Bill Clinton who referred to Mr. Boortz as a “Preacher of Hate.” I agree with Carl S. We must focus on the message not the messenger. I will try to tone my comments down a little.

      I’m certainly not looking for special attention. I could care less what the low information voter thinks of me. I still have a responsibility to proclaim freedom from the housetops. If that steps on someone’s toes, so be it. In the meantime I have not dismissed anyone’s views. I simply put forth a few questions, and as yet have not received an answer. Grown men should be man enough to own a mistake when the mistake is pointed out to them, and learn from it.

      Ah yes, free speech! That’s a good one. Without the Second Amendment we would not have the First Amendment. In my spare time when I’m not expounding Second Amendment virtues, I fight for the First Amendment. I am very grateful to Cheaper Than Dirt who provides this forum for both sides to express their views. On the Internet, blogs who allow BOTH views are rare. SEMPER FI

    3. fair: Well said. I sometimes allow my emotions to speak louder than my brain. I’m thinking that the vast majority of folks on this site are rather like minded, and I too shall endeavor to listen more to the message than the rhetoric.

      Good health and long life to you sir.

    1. “….. God given right”?? Really? Is he or she a Republican, Democrat or a Liberial? I don’t remember seeing his signature on the Constuition or authoring anything in the Bill of Rights. Might be a good idea to leave Religion and God out of our discussions and deliberations here. Separation of church and State an all. Im not sure he or she whould appreciate being a participant and accorded responsibility for something he or she didn’t do. LMAO, sometiMes I just can’t belive where these comments spin off too. Makes them fun to read though ….

    2. CommonSense, I agree with you to a point about God given rights. But that doesn’t stop low information republican voters from giving that right away.

    3. Try looking in the preamble itself. It talks about the “blessings” of liberty. Ever heard the expression “God Bless America”? That is kind of where that little ditty came from. Rights were granted to us by God. Thus they cannot be taken from us by man.
      That is the basis for a Representative Republic established upon the tenents of the Constitution and Bill of Rights (which is part thereof). You can also spend some time reading the Federalist papers which will open you eyes and mind somewhat about the role of God and his blessings of liberty, and the inalienable rights (rights man cannot abridge, due to them being granted to us by God) which only a Godless and evil entity (e.g., Nazi’s, Communists, Statists, etc.) would wish that could or would be taken from us.

      In closing, the “Divne right” of the people does appear within the 2nd amendment, when you consider that the 27 word sentence states that “…the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”. A right granted by man, can be taken away by man. an inalienable right (as set forth in the preamble of the Constitution) cannot be taken away by man, as God himself granted it.

      Funny how some folks can find the “right” to abort a baby in the “penumbras” of the Constitution, yet they cannot find the rights granted by God Himself in either the Bill of Rights (which is a part of the Constitution) or the original 7 articles and preamble of the Constitution. Good luck in your search. It is very easy to find if you read the Constitution and the Bill in order of the articles and enumerated rights, which in fact, they are meant to be read.

    4. @ Ira Atin.

      Here’s one for you too, and the 2nd Amendment falls directly it that deep hole. Article IV, Section 2, Clause 1 aka the Comity Clause…

    1. In the case of Alabama’s new gun rights constitutional amendment, the people gave their rights away. No one had to take them.

    2. Those people did not give away the rights of the People. They simply gave away their individual power. The People of that State still have the Rights granted by God, which are inalienable. (Man cannot take them). There is only an unconstitutional law now passed (see Article 6, Section 2) and read the decision in Marbury vs. Madison.
      (Any law made which is not in pursuance of the Constittion is a nullity, and as invalid as if it were never written).
      A defense against prosecution exists within this Supreme Court decision (even though it was handed down about 200 years ago) and thus it proves the unconstitutional law, unconstitutional.
      Funny how it really does not take a Supreme Court decision to TWICE rule that inalienable rights, are inalienable rights.
      And it is great that the Constitution was written to protect people stupid enough to vote for something which is so blatantly unlawful.
      God Bless!

    3. Fair: Here I am again throwing in my two bits. The Constitution is not negotiable, it is for all citizens, in all the states, and cannot be revoked by any state. But the individual citizen makes the choice to bow to a puppet judge or stand for the Constitution, on to bear arms or not to bear arms. He decides what he thinks is his pursuit of happiness, but has no right to make me partake in his way of happiness/choice, if I decide to stand on my Constitutional Liberties. He can give his up, but he cannot take mine. If my pursuit of happiness is to bear my arms, then the no arms bearers can go their way, and I shall go mine, the Constitution protects both. We have to leave each other along or sparks will fly, sooner or later. No harmony will exist between us if one tries to remove the rights of the other. The rights are always there, waiting for the one who wants to recant and reclaim them, but the choice is up to the individual citizen. I want all of my Constitutional rights, so for like minded citizens I think we should come up with a new twist on a rallying banner based on the old one, “Dont Tread On Me.” The only catch is it has to be aimed at an internal foe instead of an external foe.

  9. Smitty: That post was in reply to “fair”.

    Read all his posts. On two occasions he has referred to the 72% of Alabama voters who voted in favor of the Amendment in unflattering and offensive terms.

    I’ll speak for myself: I do not appreciate being called “stupid”, “idiot”, or any other tag as a result of casting my educated vote, and I am offended that “fair” has used the language he/she has chosen to demean anyone who disagrees with his/her holy opinion.

    1. Ala. Conservative and the rest of the 72 percent – It is impossible for me to apologize for being right. If you can prove me wrong, I’ll be the first to apologize. I also do not sympathize with your plight, if you are one of the 72 percent that voted to rewrite our state constitution’s gun rights amendment.

      One reason I am so blunt is the time to play voting is over. If we are to remain a free people, at some point we must know what we are voting for! And knowing what to vote for is not what some lame lawyer says it is.

      Stop abdicating your responsibility to research the truth to some self serving lawyer. One lawyer in the Alabama legislature got the gun rights destroying amendment on the ballot in the dead of night without any public debate. Another lawyer in the NRA jumped on board when he saw the lame judge-invented terminology in the new amendment. And the 72 percent Yes voters said to the remaining 28 percent who voted NO that, “changing the state constitution from ‘shall not be infringed’ to convoluted JUDGE-INVENTED terms that leaves gun rights entirely at the discretion of a lame, gun hating judge is good?”

    2. @Alabama Conservative
      On the one hand, I do not disagree with your position as to the use of demeaning, and subjective name calling when it serves no other purpose than to derail the discussion and take away from the interaction of all commenters.
      On the other hand, the Freedon of Speech allows for ones right to express themselves as they wish and further that they may expect that privlage to be protected by other even those who don’t like it or disagree.
      I think that the general use of demeaning and crude descriptors often seems to indicate a lack of education and ability to communicate on the part of the one speaking. However, this lack of skill to communicate at a higher level does not nessassaerly mirror the speakers understanding of the subject at hand. Just their ability to express it.
      I might suggest that, if possible, we look past the crude, dismissive and demeaning style and descriptors used to communicate and continue to try and stay focused on the basic issues and the facts as they exist.
      We are a severely divided and fractured nation and goverment.
      The just past elections and the statements made by both camps the week following its right thru the news today on imagination simply further hi light that division and widening of the gap. We have lost sight of the middle ground where the common ground between opposing points of view might find space to come to find agreement. It’s going to have to start wth us, one person to another, willing to see past the crap and keep their eye on the prize and find the common ground and best solutions. Each of us has to choose, once again, to find common ground. Until we do we remain polarized, divided, and quibbling over what words a another choose to use when speaking. Instead of making desisions that move forward the combined addenda.
      my opinion is my own, it will stand or fall, be weakened or grow strongeron its own merits. It is always open to discussion and flexible enough to evolve as needed. To be anything else is to fail at some point along the way.
      I’m not saying “can’t we all just get along” … cause we can’t! It’s just not the way we are We can however seek the value in the information, find the meat thru the fat.
      A British SAS General was once asked “What do you think frightens the world about America?” His response was “They are unpredictable and unreadable, no one including themselves ever knows what they will care about or do from one issue to the next and when they do they are committed to that course”
      That view should make us consider our actions at all levels I think.
      I’ve wandered a bit here but my point is we need to look past the words and actively listen to the content. The content not the words are the truth of o thing.

    3. Carl S: Ahhh… a voice of reason. You are right. I claim temporary Incapacitation due to a severe case of the trees blocking my vision.

      Thanks for the compass azimuth. Now I feel bad about the last post I just made.

    4. Please, my intent was to suggest a sence of balance in the discussion. In no way was it meant as admonishment anyone. For me to do that whould be to throw the first stone in my own glass house!

      Perhaps I shouldn’t have directed it towards your comments as its intent was meant for all of us who comment here. I wish I had thought of your descriptor of “Compas Azimuth”! Excellent!
      Those trees are a problem for us all at times at the best of times!

    5. “We are a severely divided and fractured nation and goverment.
      The just past elections and the statements made by both camps the week following its right thru the news today on imagination simply further hi light that division and widening of the gap. We have lost sight of the middle ground where the common ground between opposing points of view might find space to come to find agreement. It’s going to have to start wth us, one person to another, willing to see past the crap and keep their eye on the prize and find the common ground and best solutions. Each of us has to choose, once again, to find common ground. Until we do we remain polarized, divided, and quibbling over what words a another choose to use when speaking. Instead of making desisions that move forward the combined addenda.”

      Mygod, AC, America was founded by people who were divided, and I am glad there is division, for it provides for debate that can root out dumb thinking and produce at least some semblance of reasoned outcome. Our Founding Fathers yelled and screamed at each other during their meetings to form the Declaration and Constitution.

      Are you suggesting that we all must assume a position in some nebulous “middle ground” merely for the sake of “getting along?” This has been Obama’s mantra, and the results have been disastrous.

      It is a good thing when we find “common ground,” but not at the expense of tossing aside the arguments from those who believe they are right in their beliefs. I welcome division; it proves that people are thinking, rather than becoming lemmings who all thoughtlessly follow one belief at the expense of all other beliefs, while leaving their reasoning ability at the door. Argument should be welcomed, and the fruits of free thought should be decided in the free market place of debate, such as that which is provided on this forum.

      If argument results in coming to a common understanding, that’s fine, but failure to find such common ground should not be condemned. A lot of our guys died to allow that freedom to dissent and provide different viewpoints, regardless of whether or not we agree with those viewpoints.

      I agree that we don’t have to call each other names; if you considered Fair’s assessments obnoxious because you felt the emphasis of his post was on what you felt was “name-calling,” that’s one thing. But….the real “meat” of his post holds true, at least to me. So…enough of my pontification.

    6. @Smitty 550
      First off, Alabama Conservitive didn’t write that which you are taking so much exception to above. I did. So please let him know you made an honest mistake.
      I don’t even know how to respond to you quite yet but I’ll give it some thought and get back to you.
      In the mean time you might want to tone down your redoric just a bit and take a breath. I’ll talk to you again in the near future.

    7. Carl S and Smitty550: First, thanks Carl- and I truly meant the thanks for the voice of reason. fair’s name tags really bothered me because I firmly believe I am an educated and informed voter. We’ve got that solved though.

      Smitty- I agree that every voice needs to be heard, and I value those other opinions. We can argue until we’re both out of breath, but I’ll buy you a beer and argue some more so long as it does not get personal. Name tags are personal, and my blood boils when someone uses one on me. Perhaps that’s thin skinned- but we are who we are, and I wish it was my only fault.

    8. AC, my apologies. My remark was directed to Carl S. Maybe we can all get together to discuss stuff over beers…..(AC, your offer to buy me a beer is gratefully accepted. After that, beers are on me!!). BTW, Carl, where do you live? I know that AC, of course, is from Alabama, and I live about an hour north of San Francisco. My wife and I are trying to get down your way in our small motor home next fall do some coyote/hog hunting in Texas, (provided that I can gain access to BLM or a rancher’s property) and maybe I might be able to coax the old girl (the motor home) down to New Orleans and points east.

    9. Smitty: I lived in Petaluma when I worked at the Presidio. My daughters decided to remain in CA when I was deployed overseas- so I get out there every now & then.

      You should be as fortunate as we are in this part of the country when it comes to firearms 🙂

    10. Petaluma? I can’t believe it! I live in Santa Rosa, a bit over twenty miles away! The next time you visit your daughters, I would hope to hear from you and take you up on your beer offer. Yes, you are truly fortunate to live in a state that is far more welcoming to gun owners than in California. I hope Carl S doesn’t respond, saying he lives in Novato or I’ll have to sit down with some smelling salts.

  10. I voted for the wording change for the simple reason that the original wording, which was very plain, was too confusing to the ‘smart’ judges and lawyers. “Shall not be infringed” would mean that we would not have the NFA or any permits to carry. The ONLY permit needed is the 2nd amendment. It seems to me that the ‘low information’ people involved are the judges and lawyers.

    1. CommonSense4America – So Alabama gun owners went from “having to have a permit” under “shall not infringed” to possibly “not have a weapon” sometime in the future. How is that a good thing? Have you figured out what “government’s compelling interest” means yet?

  11. @ BOYCOTT.

    One of the reasons I sort of butted in, is because about a year and half ago I hade a stroke. My neurologist suggested that I keep my mind active to prevent any possible future strokes. So in February of this I got my first computer. And have been doing random searches just to keep my mind active. Then I stumbled onto The Shooter’s Log, and signed on. A one thing lead to another, so now I’m on approximately 97 websites of various subject matters, mostly weaponry, military and history. And I do this about 5 to 6-hours per day, usually at night. And that’s my story.

    1. Secundius: Glad to be a responder to keep your mind active. You hit the web many magnitudes above me. I drop in on this one more than the other two on my list. Between playing with and working on old guns and tractors, I want to stir the pot about our founders, and how we are being duped by the liberals. My parents generation (WWII) built the industrial base of this country, sent the offspring off to college to rattle their brains to become liberal, and then left the inherited wealth to them. They inturn tthought they had a better way to live than old mom and pop, and here we are today looking at the spoiled brats, and the mess created by their liberal minds. They for sure have given up their birthright, and the sad thing about it is they do not even know what they have given up. Have a good one on the posting and looking forwarded to the next dialogue.

    2. If I may butt in, allow me to say that, we have more to fear than “being duped by the liberals.” In my opinion the neo conservative, gun loving, gun toting, low information voters are far more dangerous than the liberals. Anyone who refuses to research an issue BEFORE voting on it will most likely vote the wrong way. Just follow the herd seems to satisfy most low information voters.

      Last election in Alabama 72 percent of the neo conservatives described above voted to replace the plain language of “shall not be infringed,” in our state constitution to convoluted JUDGE-INVENTED terms that leaves gun rights entirely at the discretion of a lame gun hating judge?

      The change is NOT a small change. It rewrote their CONSTITUTION. Stupid lawyers and idiot republicans did this to Alabama gun owners. Most frightening the NRA support the constitutional change!

      It is strange that the NRA would support an Alabama constitutional amendment that inserts JUDGE-INVENTED terms into a state constitution that leaves gun rights entirely at the discretion of a lame gun hating judge. NRA is full of lawyers. They know what “government’s compelling interest” means, yet they explain the amendment in convoluted judge-invented terms like “strict scrutiny” which really means “government’s compelling interest.” I’ve lost count on how many times the citizen has been screwed using judge-invented term “government’s compelling interest.”

      It’s quite obvious that the neo conservative, gun toting, low information 72 percent republican retards did not research this issue before voting to give their gun rights away.

    3. I suspect it much more likely that you just think you know and actually don’t have a clue. You sound like a liberal just taking shots.

    4. No one wishes I am wrong more than me. I know it’s hard to tell the good guys from the bad guys just from reading post on a blog. I understand your comment. You would be surprised to know just how conservative I am, although these days I’m leaning towards libertarian. I think Ron Paul would make a good president, and Judge Napolitano would be even better. I believe both are libertarian.

      I’ve been a voting NRA member for about 45 years. I’m a lot older than that. I’m also an independent paralegal, have studied constitutional law for many years. Any lay person should be able to understand the difference between “shall not be infringed” and “government’s compelling interest.” But alas it didn’t happen in Alabama’s last election. SEMPER FI

    5. No one wishes I am wrong more than me. I know it’s hard to tell the good guys from the bad guys just from reading post on a blog. I understand your comment. You would be surprised to know just how conservative I am, although these days I’m leaning towards libertarian. I think Ron Paul would make a good president, and Judge Napolitano would be even better. I believe both are libertarian.

      I’ve been a voting NRA member for about 45 years. I’m a lot older than that. I’m also an independent paralegal, have studied constitutional law for many years. Any lay person should be able to understand the difference between “shall not be infringed” and “government’s compelling interest.” But alas it didn’t happen in Alabama’s last election. SEMPER FI

      FAIR, there are too many people who don’t know the difference, but what is more disturbing is that there are even more people who don’t care, thanks to the national news media that refuses to be critical enough to make people really THINK!

      BTW, I am with you re your Presidential choices. Sadly, they may not be “moderate” enough to garner the votes of the low-info voters who might fear that their welfare checks might be affected by some very needed governmental cut-backs.

    6. Smitty 550 — Yes sir, I agree. That is the point I was trying to make. “. . . . too many people who don’t know the difference, but what is more disturbing is that there are even more people who don’t care.” A low information voter whether he/she is democrat, republican or libertarian is a dangerous voter. They will vote your rights away without any hesitation. They just follow the crowd. Sometimes the “crowd” is going in the wrong direction. A person who votes to give rights away out of opposition is one thing, but to give rights away out of ignorance is far worse. Both are inexcusable.

    7. Fair, you again nailed it! I was talking to my wife a few days ago, lamenting the very fact you emphasized about people voting out of ignorance. As for Obamacare, people’s opinions were swayed not only by ignorance, but by being lied to by Obama and his chief architect of the ACA, Jonathan Gruber. What’s frightening is that Obama and Pelosi lied about Gruber, stating essentially that they never knew the guy. Another example of the corruption that has taken over our government. “You can choose any doctor you want, you will not lose your insurance, and your premiums will decrease by $2,500 per family of four.” What horseshit!

      And the latest news of the four murders of people praying in a synagogue in Jerusalem by jihadists from Palestine (three were Americans) who danced in the streets after the murders. Instead of expressing outrage, all Obama could say was that the Israelis and Palestinians should try harder to “get along” with each other. This ass of a President has a well-cooked noodle for a spine and I can’t wait until he is out of office. I am concerned that he will create even more damage before he leaves, leaving us with a legacy of bad laws via his “Executive Privilege” that may well be permanent.

      Sorry for digressing, but at this point, I am so fed up with our having gone from being a strong nation to one that no other nation fears and/or respects, and we voted into office those who made it all happen.

    8. It’s hard to carry on a debate with someone who starts it off by calling anyone who disagrees revolting names. Your condescending language is offensive and disrespectful.

      Consider for just a moment that you are not the only person on this site with knowledge, wisdom, and experience.

      If you would care to apologize to your fellow Alabama Citizens for the abusive tone and language, I’m sure your posts would carry a bit more weight.

    9. @Alabama Conservative: Could you please quote the examples of the condescending, disrespectful, abusive and offensive language, give reasons to support your opinion and include the person to whom are you addressing your reply? It would help. Thanks.

    10. Smitty: for some reason my posts are not showing up under the comment I reply to.

      My response to you is about 14 comments above.

    11. AC, I too am having problems with just where to post replies. The “reply” in red should be less confusing. Also, it’s too bad that there is no provision for deleting posts a person has just made or for modifying something that he/she has just been posted. Hopefully, the Shooter’s Log will make the site easier to work with in the future.

      I was brought up with typewriters and am playing catch-up with my grandchildren in the computer game. At least I know more about history than they do…..for now, at least.

    12. Deleting and editing posts usually leaves the blog extremely one sided. Soon thereafter no one posts for fear of being deleted. Who gets to delete post? Who decides what content is offensive? What’s offensive to one may not be offensive to others.

      I’ve spent a few thousand dollars with this company. They have the best prices on ammo I’ve found. I hope they don’t delete my post cause some lame, low information voters can’t stand the heat when told the truth.

    13. fair: there you go again… I’ve met many people like you before. We have one in the Oval Office right now- you know, the kind who believe they are the smartest guy on the block, and the kind that believes they know what’s best for the majority.

      ” You can tell if someone is about social intercourse or just about browbeating somebody with their opinion. It’s no fun arguing with a closed-minded person.”
      John Schneider

      Goodby fair- I’m done with you

    14. Ala Conservative – I’m not browbeating anyone. Just stating the facts. Have you figured out what “government’s compelling interest” means yet?

    15. Fair: For meaningful dialogue some terms need to be defined. I use Lord Acton’s quote for a start, “A liberal is only a bundle of prejudices until he has mastered, has understood, experienced the philosophy of Conservatism.” Liberal for my intended meaning is one that does not understands the Constitution, and the foundations of our government established by the founding fathers, and thinks he can do better than them, and is in a constant state of wanting to change it for every occasion thinkable. For conservative it will be the opposite, he understands and believes in it, and tries to maintain the government(s) within the bounds established by the Constitution. Many good conservative post are here on the Constitution and applications to the states about the 2A. Now for Alabama my view is the majority of the voters (those voting for it) , by my definition, are liberal, because they are trying to change the Constitution and have no understanding of the Constitution (it can not be changed by a state), and fit into my category of “they think they can do it better than good old mom and pop.” Now for duped by liberals, it looks like to me a lot of Alabamans have been duped by the liberals, or are liberals duping the others. Also, republicans can be liberal, but I think they are more registered demos than republicans in Alabama, and the majority of the demos are liberals. I include in my definition of liberal anyone that negotiates away, or parts of the Constitution, such as the baloney going on at the UN. For closure I think another Lord Acton quote is applicable, “It is bad to be oppressed by a minority, but it is worse to be oppressed by a majority.” Alabamans may find out that the majority has given away their birthright that they don’t even understand. It is sad.

    16. Boycott, well said. My fear is that Alabama’s new constitutional amendment that replaced “shall not be infringed” into convoluted JUDGE-INVENTED terms that leaves gun rights entirely at the discretion of a lame, gun hating judge will grow into something even bigger.

      There are lawyers in this country who are advocating for a Constitution Convention. They are not satisfied with rewriting state constitutions, they want to rewrite the US Constitution. Author and lawyer Mark Levin seems to be the main player in this movement.

      Can you imagine what will happen to the Bill of Rights if a bunch of self-serving lawyers and citizens ignorant of the present Constitution are in control of rewriting the US Constitution. Levin has some good ideas, is correct on many issues, but the constitution convention he advocates is dead wrong and absolutely terrifying.

    17. Fair: Levin may find out that the liberals can also use that approach. It can be a double edge sword. As for infringe, used by our founders, this was a very strong word, and most people today do not understand their lingo. It was to violate, to break laws or contracts, and this was not acceptable to honorable men of the time. If broken or violated, dueling was an acceptable way to settle the matter. That is a very strong meaning. My translation for today would be “taken away,” which implies being done by force, or unwilling given up. But, still not as strong as the original meaning. People should remember the Constitution is to protect the people from the government. Not vice versa. If they give up the Constitution for something else, they may be surprised what kind of protection they have from governments. Like the dog with the bone in his mouth, looks into the water, then tries to grab the bone from the dog he sees, and then he has lost the real bone to his own reflection. Put citizens in place of the dog, Constitution in place of the bone, and liberal in place of the water, the conclusion to keep the bone is do not open your mouth to grab nothing, just keep chewing on the good old Constitution. Have a good day Fair, and let us have a good battle with the libs. This one is on home turf, and not in the leech infested jungles, or snake infested waters of VN. The leeches and snakes have just taken on other forms

  12. ATTN: ANYONE: Subject Marine Corps Sniper Rifle M40A6…

    Remington IS NOT building the rifle, they are the Prime Sub-Contractors. To produce the Components, Chassis and some parts. U.S. Ordnance of Reno, NV., is making the actual build.

    So, don’t rush to you nearest Gun Store, and ask about the Remington Model. Because there isn’t one…

  13. Thanks Pete, I will surely do that sir. Just for the heck of it, do U know a person by the name of Bruce Farmer. He is retired military, don’t no what part of Alaska he lives in. Last time I talked with him, was at his brother’s funeral. And he was telling me he pretty much lives on the golf course. It’s crazy, just asking. Thanks for the Info, will make a note of this. Have a great week.

  14. G-Man, I like your words. I’m not up on the Constitution as well as U, but I have bought a copy, and intend to know a lot more, should have already done it. I have a great deal of respect for anyone that knows the Constitution. It’s like the Bible, we should all know it. Have a great day.

    1. @ Rod S.: Thank you Sir. I must admit that knowing how the Constitution is to be applied as a matter of law is part of my career; however, I do believe I would still share a passion for understanding it regardless of my chosen career path. Good day to you as well.

    2. @Rod S
      I would suggest that you might also find the combined works/writings called The Federal Papers and read them in conjunction with the Constution. They provide amoung other things an inside and understanding of what was intended by those at the time.
      I’m pretty sure tha G-man will agree with this suggestion. But would appreciate hearing his thoughts an these documents.

    1. : Cat sish

      Could you be more specific. There been elections on Restaurant’s Food Taxes, Gas Taxes, Sales Taxes, Smoking, Personal Property Taxes, etc… And, yet NONE of these Companies and/or Organizations have left the state…

  15. The same situation played out in Colorado last year when the liberal idiots passed very strict gun control laws in Denver, where a multi million dollar a year business was located. The industry was called Magpul. They decided to exit stage left and picked up their operation and moved to Texas. Also the idiot liberals that helped pass these restrictive laws were voted out of office.

  16. @ The True “Skinny”: First I must preface my following comments by making clear you understand that I am an authority on the Constitution and how it is applied in law. With that, unfortunately I must inform you that you have grossly misstated the purpose and applicable use for the “Comity Clause”.

    The “U.S. Constitution Article IV, Section 2, Clause 1 or the ‘Comity Clause’” was written to apply specifically to state-level laws which are subordinate to the Constitution, and not the Constitution itself -as you have so wrongly implied.

    The Second Amendment is superior to any state law and so the “Comity Clause” could not possibly apply to it.

    To clarify the facts, the Second Amendment serves to enumerate unalienable rights by our creator, which makes it explicitly superior to any state enacted laws simply by virtue of its presence and position in the Constitution, of which, will always reign supreme over any state laws.

    So now that I’ve cleared up the hierarchical supremacy of the Second Amendment, let’s bury the issue by examining the actual words purposefully chosen to construct the contextual meaning of the Second Amendment so that there would never be any future confusion:

    “…the RIGHT of the people to keep and bear Arms…”

    As anyone can clearly see, the Second Amendment explicitly and purposefully declares itself as a “RIGHT” and so it could never be construed as a “PRIVILEGE”. So how you arrived at your misguiding conclusion defies all logic.

    Let’s review: The Second Amendment intentionally incorporated the words “RIGHT of the people”, so no one would ever mistake it as to mean a “PRIVILEGE of the people”.

    Now, so I don’t leave you high-and-dry, I will explain the proper purpose of the “Comity Clause”. Simply put, it was intended to convey reciprocity of laws between the states, but not the Constitution. It is saying that states should generally respect the laws of other states even if they disagree or are different from their own.

    Knowing that state laws are allowed to vary, it was designed to prevent mayhem that could arise if states attempted to one-up each other or get even with malicious prosecutions of each other’s citizens in order to make a point. It also stands to allow extradition between states that may disagree on criminal consequences such as the death penalty.

    Bottom line – respect each other’s state laws or you may find your own state laws being disrespected.

    I hope this clears things up for you.

    1. @ Steve: Those that made it past high school don’t consider them “big words”; to us it’s just normal vocabulary. But I can see how you would consider them challenging to read. Intellect and comprehension is everything, and without it, things do appear to be a “waste”. I do apologize for presenting you with such a large challenge.

    2. NOTE: To those not paying attention!!!
      That “whose” of cool air and soft but solid thud you just heard was the 25ton vault blast door that just closed on this subject!
      G-Man, I Actually I’m surprised that this thread went on as long as it did before you depend up on the Box! A few of us have come to expect your input in theses matters of law and definition of said wordings.
      Always a pleasure!

    3. I dislike spell check!!! Para2 line1, “depend” should read STOOD.
      Don’t know where it got depend?? Sorry

    4. @ Pete in Alaska: Thank you Sir… and as I read your blast door closure, it was written so awesomely descriptive it was as if I could feel and hear it. Very cool closure.

  17. I sure hate to see anyone lose there job. There’s not a lot of jobs to be found, with this country being torn apart the way it is. But we were very glad to see Remington come here to Alabama and put people in needed jobs. We do love our great out doors, and our 2nd Ammend. rights while we still have them. Gun season comes in, in 5 days for Deer, and am ready, and will be using my Remington 30-06. Killed a lot of deer with this weapon. Have a great week all, and GOD BLESS AMERICA.

  18. Sorry about those Remington employees losing out in Ilion, but there’s no one to blame except the voters in metro NY who elected representatives who fell prey to the blandishments of gun-grabbing elitists Cuomo and Bloomburg, who hammered through the Safe act. I’ve become a single-issue voter, electing only those whom I think may protect my Second Amendment rights. Regardless of political party affiliations, the moneyed special interests will buy the votes of any of those we elect.
    The only thing we have to protect us from a tyrannical government is the fact that we are an armed camp whose citizenry own more small arms than do the combined armed forces of this wonderful, still free country.
    The Japanese, in WWII were warned by Adm. Yamato, who planned the Pearl Harbor attack, not to invade mainland USA because “there was a rifle behind every blade of grass”.

    1. @ Ron/Texas.

      You have Documented Empirical Evidence that Japanese-Americans, were warn about the upcoming attack on Pearl Harbor. It’s kind of strange the J. Edgar Hoover of the FBI, didn’t find any. He even said that the Japanese-Americans, posed no threat to US. National Security. And he was as “tenacious” as a terrier at a badger hole, when it came to finding evidence. Just ask G-Man. It was the US. Army that didn’t trust them.

    2. No where in his statement did @ron/texas say that Adm. Yamato warned the Japaness americans, He did warn the Higher command not to attack america direct as there was a gun behind every blade of grass and that is a historical fact.

    3. @ Mike.

      I apologies, but your reference to the Japanese, was a little vague. To me at least it sounded you were referring to the Japanese-Americans at Pearl Harbor. I hope it caused you no distress, and again my apologies.

      Respectfully Yours, Secundius.

    4. Secundus: I don’t know what you’re talking about because he didn’t say what you claimed he did. The statement referenced about ADM Yamato is correct. I see no statement by him about Japanese Americans having advanced notification of Pearl Harbor. That’s been an unproven conspiracy rumor for years.

    5. “Secundius’,
      “Mike” got it right. My reference to the Japanese being warned by Adm. Yamato was meant for the Japanese high command. Your apology is accepted.

  19. The company says it’s because of the NY gun laws. The gun hating governor says that it is not. Or, for him to paraphrase Groucho Marx, “who you gonna believe, me or your own lying eyes?”

  20. The Libs are destroying our country and economy with their socialistic kommunistik agenda, they will put us all in chains and take away our guns and freedoms and possibly our wives too.

  21. Remington, Move your business to a friendly State that defends the 2nd amendment, 200 years in the Gun business, its time to move OUT of New York and go to a Non Union facility, Good Luck.

  22. I don’t think the Governor of New York knows his head from his butt. While I feel for the employees of Remington, I wouldn’t fault Remington if they did shut down operations in New York and move to Alabama. New York, Connecticut, New Jersey, Colorado, California are all on the states I will not visit list.

    1. I reside and California, and I don’t blame you. The only thing most Californians can do is drive a few hours to the nearest adjacent state to enjoy safe recreational training and shooting.

      That are join police force…

  23. If the penny pinching owners bought more machines that make 22 long rifle ammo, there would be no lay offs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  24. Of course I do feel for the people involved. But let’s not forget that the voters up there spoke many times. They voted ! They wanted it bad ! So they are getting it bad.

    1. @ Michael Minjack.

      I don’t think it’s taxes, because the current owners of Remington, is Cerberus Capital Management and they are the 4th in the line of owners to own the company. If, any Tax breaks were made, they would have been made to Eliphalet Remington the Founder of the Company and won’t applied to the Current Owners. Unless they “Grandfathered” into the Town of Ilion, founding’s charter, which could be “nullified” by the State Government. It’s most likely and highly probable, PROFIT and the Shareholders…

  25. I don’t know how much of it is the actual gun law business and how much is the tax laws. New York, California, Connecticut are number 1, 2 and 3 for taxes. So who wants to move their business to those states. They also don’t rate well with gune laws.

  26. remington is among other firearms manufacturers who are making the same move/statement, but as a retired teamster, i have to think there might be union-busting involved!

    1. @ mosby.

      I think it was five-things that pushed Remington “over-the-edge” to move.
      1. Unions.
      2. Health Care.
      3. The States refusal to renew there “Tax Exempt” status.
      4. Minimum Wages
      5. PROFITS

    2. Hey Scunduis,
      So, let’s see if I can summarize your talking points . . . .
      Money, money, ahhhhh money, more money and MONEY. Yup, bout covers it!

    3. @ Pete in Alaska.

      Yup, Pete. It seem that Remington has been making a “snail-pace” dismantling of their Ilion, NY. manufacturing works “piece-meal, at a time”. To there New, Lonoke, Arkansas location, since 1986. The SAFE act was just the “smoke screen” they need to make their final move. So, for the last 28-years, or so. It been a ongoing theatrical show. But , it WAS all about PROFIT… And those that wanted to GO, did. And those wanting too STAY, did. All-In-All, ~1,300 people went, the rest stayed…

    4. Yep. Companies are in business to make money. With that money they can do things like hire employees and pay employees. It’s a novel idea I know.

  27. The Privileges and Immunities Clause is similar to a provision that was contained in the Articles of Confederation. According to that provision, “the free inhabitants of each of these States, paupers, vagabonds and fugitives from justice excepted, shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of free citizens in the several States.”

    Then why is my concealed carry permit not valid in New Your?

    1. @ fair.

      Brett, called it 50 separate experiments. Well, the US. Constitution was written for the United States of America, as a Whole Nation. While each 50-state, have been slowly, but surely chipping away at the whole. Trying to come up with their own unique identity, and telling surrounding states. That there idea’s and comments are not welcome here. Saying you can come, but you have to leave your thoughts, rights and idea’s behind, Their NOT WELCOME…

  28. I just so happy to see the CRIME rate coming dn in NY—-Sam Rayburn said it eloquently “the masses r asses”

  29. Jim, I agree with your insight. It is all of the above. The Safe Act was just the straw that broke the camel’s back. I understand that Remington has offered jobs to those that wish to move to AL. However, it’s not easy to pull up roots and replant yourself and your family when the family roots are so tied to a small town.

    The socialist State of NY is on the brink of disaster. What I find interesting is that as an Air Force member stationed at Plattsburg AFB in 1973, I had actually considered staying in upper NY State. Even then the taxes in NY were my reason for not putting down roots in one of the most beautiful areas in the US, the Adirondack Mountains. It’s a shame that the lower region of NY has so much sway over the rest of NY State.
    The farmers, ranchers and the rural areas of NY have been completely forgotten.

    1. @Robert
      We used to stage our overseas deployments with the SR71 and the U2 thru Platsberg. It was our forward Tanker base and emergency east coast field. I always thought the area was great, even got some fly fishing in on one or two occasions. Unfortunately New York is or has become the East Coast Kaliforina. Alabama looks to be going in the direction of becoming the Kalifornia in the South. A sad state of affairs I grant you. Maybe I’m being to much the optimist when I hope for people to see some sence and curb their governments heavy handed and greedy way of dealing with this nation. I suppose that it is asking to much of the Sheepal and there are far to few Sheep Dogs to protect them.

    2. Of course I was kidding!! They could never get that Kaliforna accent right in Bamma! Thank goodness! LOL

    3. Pete – As a life-long resident of Alabama, I have to wonder what you’ve been smoking! Left we ain’t – Coastally, politically or otherwise. Hell, your state is closer to the left coast mentality than mine will ever be.

      Roll Tide, Give ‘Em Hell George and the South will rise again! Kalifornia be damned . . . OK, I’m probably too late on that last one.

  30. Too many ad hominem, non sequitur, presumptive, and just plain ignorant posts here.

    Consider this: Why has there been a population exodus in New York these past 60 years? Could it be the state’s increasing regulation and taxes needed to support them, make both life and business unbearable to many, or at least the grass not only look, but smell greener on the other side of the proverbial fence?

    Why is NYS offering a 10 year, 0% tax abatement for business to draw business and talent to move into the state?

    Could it be that with business and population losses that result in lost tax revenue, along with a loss in Congressional apportionment have finally been realized by the politically progressive? So now that the perception of effective leadership is finally down, its time to change the appearance of what leadership is.

    Governor Andrew Cuomo, the ultra left political hack who’s bought and paid New York City constituency, has bought and brought him the votes to the Governor’s Mansion. This guy, who publicly stated that he wants to ban all firearms in NY……the same guy who publicly stated that a woman has a right to abort her child up to the day before delivery……the same guy who embraces the progressive platform with both hands, unless it conflicts with personal gain.

    New York has one real asset, kinda: New York City, the epicenter of news, business and culture within the United States, is also the largest reason why the entire state is circling the drain, albeit slowly.

    So why is Remington slowly leaving NY? The SAFE act is not the sole reason, but it is one of the many reasons. Personal liberty is secondary to Remington’s economic liberty, and I also suspect Remington is trying to score some brownie points with gunowners too.

    1. @Jim
      A great deal of what you relate is correct. What’s the old adage? “Follow the money!” It always comes down to the money.
      As for New York being the epicenter of the United States I find that a bit agggont and self serving. An important Nexus or a Primary East Coast Hub perhaps is more accurate and descriptive for this city.

    2. Jim: “Culture” is a misnomer on the east coast. It is pronounced “Cul-chah.”

      The east coast elite have different values than the non-elite small-town voters in Pennsylvania and other states [that had] grown “bitter” over lost jobs, which caused them to “cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren’t like them,” as Obama so glaringly and arrogantly put it in April, 2008. Obama and Jonathan Gruber are cut from the same mold.

      If you don’t know by now who Jonathan Gruber is, I’m not surprised. The mainstream media has refused to even acknowledge his existence, as had Obama and Nancy Pelosi, even though ACA-architect MIT professor Gruber had been in the oval office a dozen and a half times while he prepped Obama on the Affordable Care Act, subsequently calling voters “stupid” because they couldn’t understand the (disastrous) ramifications of the act.

      Our liberal friends still refuse to criticize our Dear Leader who is now prepared to use his “Executive Privilege” to create amnesty for 11 million illegals to gain 11 million more votes….all at the expense of the rest of us who were either born here or who gained citizenship legally and who will be forced to pay for the newly-minted citizens’ welfare bills that will result. As usual, the Democrats will blame it on the conservatives and label them as not being “compassionate.”

      What I would like to know is: What will happen when 30% of the electorate are forced to pay for the remaining 70%.

    3. @ Smitty 550.

      Funny how the number’s get bigger with every telling. First, it was 3-million, second, it was 5-1/2-million, and now were up to 11-million. I expect by next telling, that number should jump to around 25-million…

    4. Hey…I didn’t just dream up these figures; if you have a problem with them, talk to the federal government gurus.

      In 2011, the Department of Homeland Security’s Office of Immigration Statistics placed the number at 11.5 million, slightly higher than the Pew study.

      Another study by former U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service demographer Robert Warren and University of Minnesota professor John Robert Warren pegged the total at around 11.7 million in January 2010.

    5. Jim: Most of these liberal politicians have no ability to start, run, and make a profit for a company. A company/corporation is no different than a individual trying to keep the head above water. Also, we can not crank up a printing press. If the head goes under, then bankruptcy proceedings pay the taxes and lawyers before creditors, then labor/retirements, with common stock holders bring up the rear. If survival in business/personal is necessary, get out with what you can before the buzzards glide in. The buzzards and maggots (liberal politicans) will finish off the corpse, if you can not get out. It is either a win or loss in this game with the liberal enemies.

  31. Word’s On A Piece of Paper?

    Yeah, right. Kentucky and Tennessee are suppose to be “Dry States”. Meaning you can make “Bourbon/Whiskey”, but not drink it. It’s like going to a “Drug/Alcohol Free College/University”. There’s NOT ONE College/University in the United States, that’s Drug/Alcohol Free.

    Totally meaningless, unless enforced. “MONEY TALK’S, the law walks”.

  32. It basically boils down to this. If criminals want guns, they will get them. These Safe act type measures do nothing to stop that. I don’t even see the sense in telling a company they can’t make them anymore, aren’t there measures ALREADY in place to stop people from getting them if they aren’t supposed to? Like telling an auto maker to stop making cars because they go to fast and people might get hurt in them. Dumb!

  33. New York, where the war on terror became a reality for this Country on 9/11. New York, where the war OF terror against law abiding gun owners continues at the hands of zealots who no more care about your Constitutional rights than they actually do about reducing crime. New York, a sad state of affairs and plainly put, just a sad state. The Southern states are benefitting from those states who are anti-gun. So, Colorado, smoke your marijuana and limit gun ownership. New York, continue to attack the Constitutional rights of Citizens and end up with no firearms industry or manufacturing. Texas appreciates your stupidity!

    1. Alabama does also. I like Remington and always have. I hope they bring their entire operation here! And all others in the industry hopefully will follow.

  34. I for one am celebrating the fact that all these manufacturing companies seeing the need to burden themselves with the high cost of moving an operation are ALL (so far as I know) electing to *STAY IN THE U.S.A.*
    How about that? Is there some reason to congratulate the powers that be for these successive patriotic decisions? .
    I’d think so.

  35. Texas will welcome them with open arms. New York is over taxing the whole state anyway. Over taxation is bad for business.

    1. No it just makes the rest of the world a dump. Just hang on the Socialists will get us there too.

    2. Nope just makes the rest of the world a bump. Hang on though the socialists will get us there too.

  36. I hope Remington doesn’t live to regret the move decision. The stupid idiots in Alabama just changed their constitution from “shall not be infringed” to “government’s compelling interest.” If you don’t know what that means check out the legal definition of “government’s compelling interest.” Governments can do just about anything they please, using the “government’s compelling interest” standard.

    The change is NOT a small change. It rewrote their CONSTITUTION. Stupid lawyers and idiot republicans did this to Alabama gun owners. Most frightening the NRA support the constitutional change! Go figure??

    1. Maybe it is because Governing bodies and Professional Organizations with political agendas are all in the same arena serving corporate interests.

      Just because a group touts to be for the people, does not by default make it true. Just because someone says “Look you have a choice.”, does not by default mean your choice matters.

      More often than not the perception of a thing is all that is needed to convince most people.

      We are a republic, not a democracy. Our two party system is only a perception of choice. All the key players in the government, corporations, and political organizations are mostly on the same agenda.

      We are not and will not be the priority until a time when consensus can be achieved. Unfortunately the currently perceived political and information system is designed to do the complete opposite.

      Until something happens that swings consensus massively in one direction, nothing is going to change.

    2. The case of roe v. wade, 410 U.S. 113, 93 S. Ct. 705, 35 L. Ed. 2d 147 (1973), which invalidated state laws that prohibited Abortion, illustrates the application of strict scrutiny. The Court held that the right to privacy is a fundamental right and that this right “is broad enough to encompass a woman’s decision whether or not to terminate her pregnancy.” Based on these grounds, the Court applied strict scrutiny. The state of Texas sought to proscribe all abortions and claimed a compelling State Interest in protecting unborn human life. Though the Court acknowledged that this was a legitimate interest, it held that the interest does not become compelling until that point in pregnancy when the fetus becomes “viable” (capable of “meaningful life outside the mother’s womb”). The Court held that a state may prohibit abortion after the point of viability, except in cases where abortion is necessary to preserve the life or health of the mother, but the Texas law was not narrowly tailored to achieve this objective. Therefore, the state did not meet its Burden of Proof and the law was held unconstitutional.

    3. A perfect example of that is Texas, were the People aren’t allow to know about what just lies beneath the surface of their own lands.

    4. Compelling-state-interest-test refers to a method of determining the constitutional validity of a law. Under this test, the government’s interest is balanced against the individual’s constitutional right to be free of law. However, a law will be upheld only if the government’s interest is strong enough.

    5. In a contest between the state and the citizen, the state always wins. The first and most notable case in which the Supreme Court applied the strict scrutiny standard and found the government’s actions valid was Korematsu v. United States (1944), in which the Court upheld the exclusion of Japanese Americans from designated areas during World War II.

      I can name you a couple thousand more similar times! Alabama has given their gun rights away to the judge-made rules of court. My fourteen year old grandson can write a law that would pass government’s compelling interest standard.

    6. I’m wasting time responding to such an uneducated post- but this is the kind of misinformation trash which permeates the Internet. If “fair” had actually bothered to read and understand beyond the buzz words, the truth would set him/her free from the ignorance he/she wallows in.

    7. EVIDENCE????? What evidence? But I’ll entertain you with the facts:

      Here’s the new Alabama Constitution language: “(a) That every Every citizen has a fundamental right to bear arms in defense of himself or herself and the state. Any restriction on this right shall be subject to strict scrutiny.

      (b) No citizen shall be compelled by any international treaty or international law to take an action that prohibits, limits, or otherwise interferes with his or her fundamental right to keep and bear arms in defense of himself or herself and the state, if such treaty or law, or its adoption, violates the United States Constitution.”[4]

      You called 72% of Alabaman’s who voted “stupid idiots”- as if living in some other State gives you some sort of understanding of rights we don’t understand here in Alabama. 77% of our State Senators supported the Amendment. 86% of State Representatives supported the Amendment. The NRA supported the Amendment. The Democrats who opposed the Amendment used the same logic as your argument- that the “strict scrutiny” language is somehow a sinister trick to empower the Government to limit the 2nd Amendment to our Constitution.

      Your choice of words is offensive and demeaning to the people of Alabama- especially in light of the fact we are staunch Patriots and Constitutionalists.

    8. Alabama Conservative. You can’t get any more conservative than me. That’s why I detest some judge invented rule replacing the plain language of “shall not be infringed” into our Alabama Constitution. I am also from Alabama. I have standing to complain about the way this amendment was passed and inserted into our Constitution in the dead of night without any public debate.

      Don’t be blinded by those who claim the new amendment is good. And yes 72% of Alabamians who voted for the amendment are what I call low information, gun loving, gun toting idiots. They believe anything a lawyer says to be the gospel truth. Unfortunately our legislature fell for the same convoluted legalese. Did you know the amendment was the brain-child of one lawyer in the Alabama legislature?

      The term “strict scrutiny” is the defining tool for activist judges to write the laws that American citizens are forced to treat with consideration, respect, and esteem. Congressional and state statutes, and Alabama’s new gun control amendment, will not have meaning until some unnamed activist judge applies the 75 years of convoluted judge-made rules that define “strict scrutiny.” Abortion, false imprisonment, involuntary sterilization, and denial of free speech to name a few, have been sanctioned by American courts using the convoluted definition of “strict scrutiny.”

      Why do lawyers say “strict scrutiny?” Why don’t lawyers call it what it really is – “government’s compelling interest!” The key to understanding this issue is to understand that “strict scrutiny” really means the “government’s compelling interest.” The government’s compelling interest can be anything the government deems to be in the government’s best interest. Hitler and the Nazis disarmed the Jews, because Hitler decided it was in the state’s best interest!

      I’m not willing to allow any judge to decide my gun rights. We had a few problems with “shall not be infringed” but that is a far better standard of review than strict scrutiny. Unfortunately “shall not be infringed” is on life support in Alabama, and most probably dead.

    9. fair: Here I was thinking I was the most distrusting person in Alabama when it comes to government and politics. I would agree that we should strike the “strict scrutiny” language during our next general election.

      I do NOT, however, agree that those of us who voted in favor of the Amendment are clueless. In my mind, paragraph 2 of the Amendment trumped the wishy washy sentence which would seem to provide gun control advocates a path to administrating restrictions on the right to bear arms.

      Having said that, I can’t see any legal way this new Amendment to the Alabama Constitution will deny the citizens of Alabama our fundamental rights as provided in the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution.

    10. The 2nd Amendment is our only hope now. The Alabama Constitution gun right’s amendment has been gutted, and will not help us in any way. In fact, it could be very harmful. If a case is ever brought in an Alabama Court on gun rights the case could make its way to the US Supreme Court. And in that case the US Supreme Court could rule, “Well the citizens of Alabama ask for their gun rights to be contingent upon the “government’s compelling interest,” therefore the citizens of Alabama get their wish. The “government” state of Alabama wishes to limit its citizens gun rights – so be it.” And then even more damaging, the US Supreme Court case becomes the law for the entire US, and the 2nd Amendment is gone. The possibilities are endless when judge-invented rules replace the plain language of “shall not be infringed.”

      This example seems far fetched, but is not impossible. We have zero guarantee that Alabama will always be conservative. What happens when evil men make up the majority in the legislative and judicial branch? This is why I call those in Alabama who voted for Amendment #3, neo-conservative, gun loving, gun toting idiots! The low information voters have no idea what they have done to guns rights in Alabama.

    11. Alabama Conservative: Rights vs. Privileges

      U.S. Constitution Article IV, Section 2, Clause 1 or the “Comity Clause”.

      “The Right to keep, and bear Arms”, falls into this clause. You have the PRIVILEGE too bear Arms, Drive a Car, Live wherever you want, To smoke, To Drink, etc. It’s a Privilege, NOT A RIGHT! If you don’t like it, take it up with James Madison and Alexander Hamilton…

    12. True Skinny: Nothing in the Bill of Rights is classified as a PRIVILEGE. That’s why it’s called the Bill of RIGHTS.

      I’m no Rhodes Scholar, but I’m surely not confused about the fact that “The Bill of Rights enumerates freedoms not explicitly indicated in the main body of the Constitution, such as freedom of religion, freedom of speech, a free press, and free assembly; the right to keep and bear arms…” and just so I do not get accused of plagiarism: (

    13. True Skinny: I read your post again, and I am compelled to write another reply. I am truly sorry that you are so grossly misinformed, because as a participant of this site, I am sure we have much in common.

      When you equate your right to bear arms with the privilege of driving, I become aghast that a potential voter would allow bureaucrats to affect one of our most fundamental rights.

    14. Alabama Conservative

      You do understand that the Article IV, Section 2, Clause 1. Are actually, in the United States Constitution. What’s your point. You can’t just Nullify a statement, just because you disagree with the Wording of the statement. Take it up with the US. Supreme Court in Washington, DC. the next time your there. I’m not Interpreting the the Clause, I’m just stating the Clause. The Supreme Court Judges, they get paid to Interpret the Clauses.

    15. The NRA ALSO supported the 1968 Gun Control Act. Those who send their hard earned $$$ to the NRA are ONLY supporting the underground Anti-Gun movement BY the NRA!

    16. I’m not answering for techie, but it is strange that the NRA would support an Alabama constitutional amendment that inserts JUDGE-INVENTED terms into a state constitution that leaves gun rights entirely at the discretion of a lame gun hating judge? NRA is full of lawyers. They know what “government’s compelling interest” means, yet they explain the amendment in convoluted judge-invented terms like “strict scrutiny” which really means “government’s compelling interest.”

      Here is an example of how “strict scrutiny” can be used to butcher innocent people. There’s no guarantee that Alabama’s gun laws will not be treated the same way.

      Even as I write this post The State of North Carolina is trying to find innocent victims that were butchered by the State of North Carolina’s involuntary sterilization laws back in the early 1970’s. America’s involuntary sterilization laws have a long and varied history of heinous abuse, and were approved by the US Supreme Court using the “strict scrutiny” standard of review.

      Thirty-three states had forced sterilization programs for much of the 20th century. California’s was the largest, sterilizing 20,000 people. Lawmakers in North Carolina OK $10 million to go to those forcibly sterilized in that state. It’s believed NC sterilized more than 7,000 people between 1929 and 1974

      Will Alabama’s new guns rights constitutional amendment go the same way? In my opinion it’s NOT worth the risk. But it’s too late now. The horse is out of the gate.

    17. Fair: All forms of government we see in this world have the people in black sitting on high benches. Does not matter what form of government: demo, commie, dictator, facist, republic, and the list goes on; they all have these people on the benches supporting political power bases. Don’t be fooled by these people, their purpose is to maintain the government power base that encompasses them. In the state I live in, real battles are waged by the liberals to get their people on the high and lower courts, even down to the county level. Don’t be fooled by the voter ballot showing no party affiliation, they are politically aligned, and hide it behind fancy black robes. Lord Acton’s quote still applies today, “Liberty is the harmony between the will and the law.” I add, if liberty is infringed upon then harmony will not exist.

    18. @Boycote,
      I have often thought that the only really important issue in a Presidental election was the probiotic of a President to appoint US Surprime Cout Judges.
      With this one decision, one man, may in effect direct the path of this nation for decades beyond their own time in office.
      From my POV the issue first and foremost in an Presidential election should be in consideration of the future court and its make up, what ones choice/vote will mean for the future of the Nation. Everything else, albeit of importance is a secondary concern to this one single decision.
      I believe that your comment is sound and reflect a view more should understand but few do. Perhaps that’s what they count on, a certain ignorance of the realities as seen by the common populace. Keep them focused on the short term problems so they don’t consider the future. I appreciate your thoughts here.

    19. Pete in Alaska: I think our founding fathers did a super great job in establishing the foundations of our government. The only big issue I have second thoughts about is the Supreme Court Judges being appointed for life. Horror stories exist about some of these justices afflicted with old age health issues. Most occcupations require some standard of health to maintain a job, or forced retirement or layoff may occur. Our politicians and judges have no requirements to pass physical or mental exams. A good known example is FDR with his failing health in his last years. The deals he cut with Russia (split Germany and Korea), cost us dearly during the cold war, and even to this day with Korea. Churchill tried hard to convince FDR not to do it. FDR did not learn from the the Russian doublecross in Poland. Lord Acton’s quote hit the nail on the head, “Live both in the future and the past. Who does not live in the past does not live in the future.”

    20. @ BOYCOTT.

      If your referring to “The Percentages Agreement” or the “Naughty” Document, that Stalin and Churchill drafted. Dividing Eastern Europe in a 55% Soviet and 45% Allies split. FDR, didn’t hear about them until after the Potsdam Conference in 1944. By the Spanish Ambassador, to the United States, when copies of the Agreement fell into Spanish hands by accident.

    21. Secundius: FDR was in the middle at Yalta, and also was setting the stage for Postdam. After the Russian doublecross in the Battle for Warsaw, Churchill’s position was take all the ground you can, and when we meet the Russian armies then negotiate. FDR wanted a good old gentleman’s agreement. The washout/mishmash of these meetings favored Russia, and made it easy for the Iron Curtain to close over Eastern Europe. All that fancy talk about elections and other things was a good ruse for Stalin. Funny how these meetings put Churchill in a weak position when dealing with Russia over Greece and Yugosalvia. FDR was up to his neck in agreeing to let Russia accept the surrender of the Jap army in North Korea, a very big mistake for us. He also was privy to the slicing up of Germany and setting up the mess in Berlin; what a washout from that. Remember the Berlin airlift operation. At the height of the Cold War more people were under totalitarianism than free governments. Russia was now a major power to be reckoned with. FDR was outclassed when negotiating with Stalin. His failing health, weak body (look at some of those pictures), and throw in his marital problems, then with all that going on, try and figure out how his old mind was reasoning with international affairs, becomes mind boggling to me. But I can still see the washout from it, and how we paid dearly for it after WWII. I have some hard feelings toward the people around FDR that covered for him and his health issues. Look how hard they tried to coverup those crippled legs. The picture painting to the American public was a ruse.

    22. @ BOYCOTT

      My bad! I stand corrected about the Potsdam/Yalta mix up, your right about that. I only ask the question, because it sounded like “The Percentages Agreement”. And just want to know if that you talking about. Sorry to have “butted” in.

    23. Secundius: Late on the return, thanks for the comment. I do not take it as a butt in. It made me refresh my own memory, and focused my attention on some of my generalities. The intent of the post was to try and learn from past mistakes, and show the frailties of people in power. Anyway, I hope it can help to hone our senses and condition us for our own internal battles with the liberals, the enemy to our Constitution. Our founders passed to us a beautiful heritage, in the Constitution. Our duty is to pass on an unadulterated Constitution.

    24. ~ Jake D.

      There are several DOZEN’s of accounting’s of the 1968 Gun Control Act.

      It was one of a very few cases where the NRA, stuck it’s foot into their own collective mouths. The provision of the 1968 Gun Control Act had two key parts. The fist part in which the NRA strongly condemed and got rid of was the need to show ID to acquire certain types of restrictive from’s of ammunition, for the personal use. The part, I thought was extremely funny. Was the part, where the NRA actually agreed to a National Gun Registry. I guess “LAWYER’s back then, were only as good as the money you paid them”.

  37. One of the wonderful things about America are the 50 separate experiments with democracy represented by the 50 states. If you don’t like the way your particular experiment is going, vote to change it.

    If that doesn’t work, “vote with your feet” and go somewhere else more to your liking. This goes for companies as well as individual citizens.

    Remington has “voted with it’s feet”.

  38. What cracks me up is all these anti-gun politicians advocating laws without ever anticipating the unintended consequences to the rest of society.

    These idiots persist without any real dividends to show for their lame efforts (i.e., proof it saves lives or reduces crime), but instead realize an immediate backfire of lost tax revenues and higher unemployment when these companies bail to another gun-friendly state.

    But their real booby prize is all the continuous Supreme Court wins which over-turn their inept laws anyway. So not only did they unnecessarily frag their own economy and ruin the unemployed families’ lives, but the pro-gun folks still get the benefit of the Supreme Court wins and get to carry their guns anyway.

    Oh the insanity of a liberal mind.

    1. G-Man:
      Have you ever known a liberal to consider any repercussions much less think before they enact their unconstitutional statutes.

      The ends (which in this case is to disarm the American citizen) justifies the means.

      Losing tax revenue is acceptable because there are more sheeple in NY to raise taxes on to make up the difference.

    2. Remember, N.Y had a terrible storm a few years back. TN, AL, SC, and other southern states sent volunteers to help the damn yangeys, but the unions ran the help away. That is progressive, liberal, union, yangeys using their noodle. I wouldn’t pee on N.Y. or anywhere like it if a fire broke out. If you don’t like the Safe Act do like the companies and leave. Then you too can tell them, “go to hell”. Fed up with the B.S.. Why do you folks keep electing Schumer, Hillary, etc.?

    3. Romney: Don’t forget to boycott as many companies, and their products, from NY, or anyother anti 2A states.

    4. ~ BOYCOTT

      It’s a MUTE jesture, which get’s you Nothing and Nowhere Fast. Because the companies your talking about also do business in your state. Like, McDonnell’s, 7-Eleven, Exxon, Shell, Wonder Bread, etc… So, unless you plan to ride a bike to go from point A to point B or go hungary, it’s MEANINGLESS.

    5. The True “Skinny:” Just give it the best shot possible. Use that money like a weapon and try the best to know where it is going. Remember some of our early partriots tried it, and other things, against the English mercantile system. Also, don’t forget the liberals are very effective at using their capital, and your tax dollars they control, as effective weapons for their agenda. It is just another battle in the long struggle to maintain constitutional liberties.

    6. The True Skinny: Don’t forget our good old D. MacArthur taking his orders and cleaning out the WW1 veterans’ tent city in the WDC demo. Some of these vets probably served honorable in his “Rainbow Outfit.” He returned such a good deed to them, what a nice guy. Look at Lord Acton’s quote, “Official truth is not actual truth.” The liberal truth is the KoolAid to killl Constitutional liberties. Now you have a lot of criticism for people on this log, but I do not know your battle plan to engage the liberal and defend constitutional liberties. Please tell us how you will engage the liberals, and bring in a successful war against them.

    7. BOYCOTT

      Mark Clark, was a racist bigot. George Patton, hated Jew’s with a passion. And yet troops of color and different religious served under them. What’s your point. And lay off the stupid Lord Acton quotes. Like everything else, it means absolutely nothing.

  39. NY has lost many manufacturing companies and industries like the old textile mills. NY has had a tradition of gun manufacturing, but the writing is on the wall. NY has ridiculous handgun laws. Try taking a handgun there. So New York you will lose all gun manufacturing eventually. What company wants to stay in a state where it’s products are illegal? Good luck in the next civil war. I’m sure you can buy guns from Russia.

  40. I guess I don’t see the problem. I don’t know if NY is a good place for business or bad. The fact is businesses move for a number of reasons… the grass is always greener, right? I don’t think anyone was bitching when Beretta and Glock built plants here. I know my state lost several mainly due to taxes. I don’t see Remington moving to a gun friendly state as a problem.

    1. @ Mc Ruger.

      I don’t follow your logic. If New York was an Anit-Gun State, there would be NO gun manufacturers of any kind and/or Defense Contrators in the state at all…

    2. Well I don’t think I said NY was Anti-Gun but I do think there are states that are more gun friendly than NY. On the other hand maybe it is better for the industry if they stay in NY and hold there ground in a state that isn’t overly gun friendly. I know in my own state we have a major Ammo Mfg and a major defense contractor and both have had big demonstrations from anti groups.
      I guess what i’m saying is I don’t think it’s a big deal either way. It’s just business.

    3. Business may be business but they can’t do business if their customers wont buy their product because they reside in such, ( and I WILL say it), an anti gun state such as NY. I can tell you that Remington has been taking a lot of heat from their customer base because of their location.

    4. @ TRGift.

      And yet people are come from all other 49-states and 196 countries, have made and are making home and businesses in New York. Go Figure?

    5. Plausible Deniability, neither a “confermation” or an “denial”, a half-truth.
      Neither saying Pro-Guns or Anti-Guns. “Half a truth, is often a great lie”, by Benjamin Franklin.

      Quote: “I don’t see Remington moving to a FRIENDLY state as a problem”.

  41. Low wage/ no wage… Santa Fe can’t pay enough for a dependable employee; big pay, little work. Working my own financials for 30 years layoffs are the golden egg for increased stock price. Lots of happy shareholders. I see it as sad for all. The game played by many businesses, no matter the product.

  42. Hey up there, Pete! We all know how hard jobs are to find, and keep. We all know how supply and demand works. I suspect Remington would’ve loved to keep their loyal and compitant employees, just as they would’ve preferred not to have to move from Illion Illionois. I’m pretty sure liberal northwoods laws have finally pushed against someone big enough to respond in a way that actually makes a big impact, and a clear point.

    1. @ will.

      From 1830 to 1843, Illion, NY. Use to be refer’d to a Remington’s Corners, because Remington Rifles Arms Company was located there.

  43. I think another reason might be the Minimum Rages. New York’s is going to be raised to $13.13/Hr., while Alabama stays at $7.25/Hr. and there’s also the “cost of living” standards, between the two states.

  44. cuomo is a rich career politico and could care less about anyone else in the state except his people with the money bags. It’s not gun control it is about total control. What WILL they go after next; tax your sunlight usage, been done before.

  45. I’ve read the SAFE Act five-times now. And I can’t see anything in the Act, to make Remington “shutter” it’s doors and more to another state like Alabama. I thing this is purely a Political and Financial move of Remington’s part. New York is a “worker’s union” state. While Alabama is NOT. And I think their also trying too recoup their loses from their “badly” thought out, “R-51/R-1 Enhanced” pistol line.

  46. Quomo and the NYC Democrats are ruining New York State. Residents are leaving, industry (Remington e.g.) is leaving and the state has taken to “special offers” and heavy advertising to try to get people and businesses to locate to (or stay in) NY. Too much regulation (not allowing fracking, etc.), too many bad laws, too many government handouts, ignoring upstate in favor of NYC, and utility rates and taxes out of control. It’s going to look like Detroit and Chicago if it keeps up. I am so happy that I moved from NY state to the great free state of Pennsylvania 15 years ago – and I haven’t looked back.

    1. @ Al Robbins.

      “Their’s a Fly, in your Ointment”, Sir. If New York State is such a bad place to Live and Work. Why is Rupert Murdoch’s News Corporation or News Corp., still there. If it’s as bad as you claim it is, they would have one of the First Corporations to leave, and move too “greener” pastures.

    2. Will @ Secundius : Mr. S.. Show me ANYTHING in print which shows Rupert Murdoch as ‘gun friendly’ or ‘gun tolerant’ or anything leaning toward the 2nd Amendment, and I might be persuaded to agree with you to a point.
      However, Murdoch is in N.Y. for the breaks his Cronies are giving his businesses and NOTHING else. He’d just as soon take away your guns as take your last dollar. As I said- show me, and I’ll concede.

    3. @ Will.

      Well Wlll, After a number of years, I can’t remember a single Episode or Show where News Corp via The Fox News Network Has EVER made a Negative statement, On, About, Against, or anything else about the NRA, can you. From Hannity to O’Rielly, to the Talking Heads, NOT ONE negative word. If anything they usually praise the NRA on VIRTUALLY everything. The ony reason their there in New York City, is because NYC, is the Cultural, Financial, Power Capital/Capitol of the WORLD!!!

      And I never said Rupert Murdoch was either for or Against Gun. I could careless either way, what his views on the subject is. What is his view is HIS, and His ALONE…It’s none of Mine, Your’s or Anybody else’s what his View are. It’s between Him and his Maker. It’s not my place to judge him.

    4. You might need to move from PA to Texas. Pa just elected as Governor, Tom Wolf, an as serious an anti-gun guy as Cuomo. In the PA legislature there are numerous anti-gun bills which never make it out of committee, as TG the house and senate are controlled by Republicans.

      Remember that 20 years ago Remington was owned by DuPont who decided to get out of arms related businesses. As part of that they moved Remington’s rimfire ammunition manufacturing facilities from Conn. to Arkansas, a lower wage state.

  47. Anything that comes out of the mouth(s) of any politician or large business must be viewed as suspect until the facts and actual impacts may be assessed. It’s likly that the NY Gov. It trying to justify their position by using the movement of Remington to another state. Remington for their part may be making more of the job position layoffs than there is.
    My opinion is that the NY law is responsible at least in part for the loss of jobs and business. It has effected more than just Remington. Ultimently only time will be able to measure the true impacts of these laws, actions and reactions and how it will play out for our nation.
    At the rate that things seem to be going I might suggest that the next “item” that will become very scarce will be 100% waterproof, dirt proof, storage containers that can be buried and hidden for long periods of time.

    1. Mr. S; It is sad that it’s happening, but one cannot really blame Remington can they? Look at the ANAL RETENTIVES in N.Y. and their skewed ideas. The really sad thing of it all is that Remington cant/won’t relocate their experienced/trained workers to Alabama and avert the problems encountered with the Marlin/Remington fiasco; Watch for history to repeat itself..
      Take care my friend, and keep givin’ ’em hell.7

  48. Remington has had several recalls these last two years. Obviously they have a QA / QC problem that is hurting sales.

    I used to own a BushMaster and never will again. Not a quality AR15 anymore IMO.

    I personally stay away from Remington products due to these recent issues.

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