Even regular readers of The Shooter’s Log can’t read or respond to all of the comments, so we have started a new weekly feature that will recap a sampling of the most active, interesting, or on occasion, randomly selected comments from the previous weeks. Feel free to respond with your two cents at the bottom of this article or by clicking the story link and adding it directly to the discussion.
Reader Comments From Previous Weeks
The above article is absolutely correct. In my Martial Arts experiences persons can move much faster then you think they can and to be prepared for that takes a lot of training and experience to overcome. My best advice is to practice, practice, practice to be prepared. Getting ‘OFF-LINE” is of great value, however again it takes practice, practice, practice to achieve a proficient level to be prepared.
Though I’ve never heard of the 21 foot “rule” I’ve often wondered how quickly I could react to an imminent threat to me or my family.
After reading your article, I’m even more concerned as I feel it would take me a lot longer to recognize that I am in imminent danger, then begin the reaction to draw a concealed carry weapon, quick-check for friendlies in the area, then fire. I’m not military or law enforcement trained (other than an M-16 many, many moons ago) and am quite sure it would take me a bit of time to go through the steps.
That being the case it appears to me that if someone is brandishing a knife or other serious instrument, I would need a much longer time. I’m not even sure 50 ft would be enough.
Is anyone aware of actual studies of lay people such as myself? Or, in the alternative, am I just kidding myself about CCW and its benefits to me.
I’ve practiced this technique in several vehicles. In some makes/models, the inertia reel seat belts will lock up from a quick lean forward, preventing access to a holster on the right hip. I’m trying out a magnetic bar as an alternate and it’s a fairly easy motion to re-holster discretely on vehicle exit.
As others have stated here while I carry I also have a dedicated vehicle weapon that is close at hand in the center console and easily reachable if the situation arises. As my pickup console is huge my choice for that gun is my Hi-Point JHP 45 ACP. Not expensive, always works and if my vehicle were to be stolen it is not a huge loss. Plus if I run out of ammo I can use it as a hand club!
~Edward M Pate
I live in California, so this is not good news, but what is important here is not the refusal by the SCOTUS to grant cert, but the fact that the refusal was by a 7-2 decision. The reality is that under the current makeup of the court, there is a one-judge majority, that being Justice Kennedy. What this 7-2 ruling tells me is that Justice Kennedy would likely vote to uphold the 9th Circuit decision, thus setting a horrible 2A precedent for the future. Justices Roberts and Alito, by voting against cert, are allowing time for the court makeup to change to a more favorable environment. The possibility of Kennedy and/or Ginsberg retiring is quite strong over the next 3 years, and should that happen, the Peruta decision, or one like it could be granted cert, with the probability of a favorable 2A decision. A partial loss is superior to a total defeat.
@ Steve Feder,
Attempting to conflate my ability to legally transport firearms as a federal agent is a lame tactic when you know full well I’ve already distinctly clarified the law I’ve cited applies to everyone. Regardless, as an attorney you should have known this already.
Your JD Degree with 30 years of experience is meaningless when you can’t even make a proper argument over such a simple matter. The bottom line is that you’ve yet to demonstrate an ability to prove anything up to this point. If you could, you should have handily been able to do so by now.
Yet despite having had ample opportunity, you’ve not once attempted to quote any actual law, let alone any case law. The truth is, you and I both know none exists that could back up your wayward claims. One would think you’d have tried at least once by now to dazzle us all by showing off your 30 years of knowledge.
Let’s review your failures:
Despite your repeated claims that your permit is not honored anywhere other than VT, I’ve no doubt you have at least finally confirmed for yourself there are 24 states that do in-fact honor the NYC/NYS concealed carry permits.
Likewise I couldn’t imagine the embarrassment that overcame you as you read up on my reference to FOPA as well. Your independent verification in which you shockingly discovered it actually does cover everyone to transport handguns through every state must have been exceedingly frustrating; especially knowing there’d be no possible way to explain away your ill-informed statements to the contrary.
And if you are going to try and claim you haven’t done your own research since I’ve brought this all up, well then you’re simply not worth the lawyer’s salt you claim to be.
Furthermore, attempting to belittle federal law enforcement as if our education is limited to a mere “police academy” makes you look desperate as well as petty. As an attorney with any experience in the federal courts, you should know we require at least a B.A. degree to be accepted for a position.
Thereafter, our standards and training are quite extensive and specialized beyond your ordinary local law enforcement. In addition to career-long refresher and upgrade training, we are expected to pursue degree coursework in forensics, criminology and law. If you had any real criminal trial experience you’d have to know this in order to properly cross examine federal agents when defending your clients.
In addition, if you’ve ever seen the inside of a federal court room you’d know we also sit as a member of the prosecution team and assist throughout most of each trial. That has a tendency to give us far more legal experience than some collections attorney that rarely sees the inside of a courtroom.
In your last post you attempted to melodramatically close by ending with, “I think we’re done, here.” But undeservingly you never really even got started. Try actually talking real law with me rather than constantly using diversionary tactics. Maybe then you’ll actually earn that grand closure you thought was so climactic.
Several of us met for range time yesterday. The Tueller/time/distance concept was included in the discussion over breakfast. I states that by 20 to 25 feet your hand should at least be on your weapon ready to draw if not out and down, and yes, it depends on the situation. One of the newer guys thought that was to far. The regular guys new what was coming next.
After we got to the range, and warmed up a bit, since you are not allowed to draw, I had him start in the low ready position. I told him when he saw the target move to put two rounds in the black. Perhaps this wasn’t fair as there was plenty of noise as distraction. With the target starting at seven yards, I hit the recall button. The trolley took a couple of second to return but let’s just say most people, even those who practice normal target shooting, are not used to shooting a target that is moving, let alone one moving at them. They are used to taking time to bring the gun up and to steady before the shot. We did this this several times. He did improve, but he was embarrassed a bit. So was I the first time I tried it. Target shooting is good, but when ever possible try to add something to the standard range shooting to push your limits, safely of course.
Just like in defensive driving, reaction time is only a part of total time. Situational awareness is critical, practice is important, mental preparation is critical.
As I tell everyone “As far as I can tell the CZ can’t miss”. I have the .22 and 17HMR combo. Super easy to change over. Very little change in POI. 22 for squirrel season then back over to .17 for varmint hunting. Insanely fun and accurate rifle combo. Near same hole groups out to 100. Can’t imagine wanting any more for a really reasonable price. The only “limitation” I have noticed was i wish the bolt arm had a tad more length but nothing I couldn’t adjust to.
Yes, it will depend on the vehicle. I had a 2003 Taurus, in the event of a crash detected, it will cut off the fuel pump to prevent it from fueling a fire. The only way to reset that car was to press a button on a box, mounted on the sidewall in the trunk. I do not know if it was tied to the AirBag being deployed or if it had it’s own crash sensor. I presume it has it’s own sensor because the car may be rear ended or be hit from the side and damage the fuel system, without deploying the airbags.
I recall the 21 foot rule being bandied are even before 25 years ago. You really hit the nail on the head with this article. I began my law enforcement career in 1957 (retired in 2000) and have seen many demonstrations of attacks with blades and am aware of at least one case where it was demonstrated in court on a civil suit against a Leo. I guess the thing that has disgusted me the most in my 60 years of law enforcement affiliation is the number of experts out there who have never spent a day on the street. Oh well that will never change and it’s actually getting worse with the social media’s influence. By the way, I still hit the range at least once a month.