News

ProMag Industries Leaves California

ProMag’s facility in Phoenix

ProMag Industries, one of the world’s largest producers of firearm magazines and gun accessories, has joined a host of other firearms-related companies that have left states which recently passed more restrictive, Second Amendment-infringing laws.

ProMag began leaving California after new state magazine restrictions were introduced this year. The company’s new facility in Phoenix is now fully functional nine months after the move.

ProMag Industries employed more than 200 employees in their South Gate, California facility. The company was forced out after 25 years by no longer being able to sell its own products in California, said General Manager Mike Kurvink.

“Our move to Phoenix was an opportunity to start from scratch,” Kurvink said. “Trying to keep up with the demand for our products during the high-capacity-magazine panic lead to many quality issues. We have had the opportunity to correct these problems, not only in our manufacturing process, but also by making a commitment to quality from the shop floor to the boardroom.” More than 150 tons of equipment on 40+ oversized trucks were shipped to the new 90,000-square-foot factory in west Phoenix. Only a handful of California employees were selected to move to Arizona for the restructure.

Kurvink said, “We take what we do very seriously — we are not making Pez dispensers. We are committed to making magazines our customers can depend on.” Read more…

 Do you support companies leaving anti-gun states for gun-friendly states? Let us hear your thoughts about ProMag’s move in the comment section.

The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt!'s blog, The Shooter's Log, is to provide information—not opinions—to our customers and the shooting community. We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. The information provided here does not represent the views of Cheaper Than Dirt!

Comments (131)

  1. Sorry BW, but you seem to be in a very small minority. I have a bunch of their mags in various configurations and have NEVER had a failure. Seems like you should change you initials to BS!

  2. Worst magazines on the market. My local Cabela’s said most of these magazines get retirned for failures. I hope they get better with the move. Until then I wish the would remove the “made in America” – it’s embarrassing.

  3. Cortana0452-9

    I think McRuger has a point. You and Conundrum are just showing how stupid you really are. This is supposed to be a gun forum not a place for you two to showcase your uninformed progressive ignorance. Perhaps you would be happier if you moved on to the “I Think Obama is God” forum.

  4. Cortana0452-9

    No I think you’re describing the position you and Conundrum wish you had with each other. Of course it my be difficult with both of you in Obamas ass. Typical of you socialist to go to garbage like this… Such small, weak, uninformed little girls.

  5. Two Points:
    1. Many points about civil unrest are posted here, but one should consider their mony as a weapon. Use it in the most effective ways. I try very hard to reduce purchases from companies located in anti2A states. In the firearms business think of few: Colt, Kimber, Winchester, Savage, Stevens, Weatherby, and the list goes on. Some companies have only the executive offices in these states, but are still paying big taxes to these states; to help them carry out their wicked liberal agenda. Most or these states have the highest tax rates, even for the workers paying taxes from making their products. Remember, the politicians in these states will take your monies, shacke you, take away your guns, and then beat you over the head, while telling their followers how evil you are. I recommend a boycott approach to try and hit the bottom line of these companies. This an indirect way to get to these states revenue sources. Some of our founders tried boycotts of English products by the Assembly before hostilities erupted.
    2. Impimis, September 2014, has Philip Hamburger’s article on “The History and Danger of Administrative Law,” This is a must read article. It sheds light on the predicament we are in. Most of this garbage we are putting up with today is from admin law. This is how liberal bureaucrats build power bases. Most of these power bases are unconstitutional, as Hambuger points out.
    For closure, Lord Acton’s quote: “Bureaucracy is undoubtedly the weapon and sign of a despotic government, inasmuch as it gives whatever government it serves, despotic power.”

  6. Oh let them point fingers and call names. I do not believe this is a conspiracy an in fact don’t know if there is such a thing. I guess maybe Lincolns assassination was a conspiracy.
    As far as I am concerned this is just a political agenda. I think a conspiracy is supposed to be a secret thing. This CHANGE to America was spoken out load by Obama from his beginning. He never kept his agenda to change the country a secret. Granted he did not spell out all of the changes but half the country saw it anyway.

    The disbelievers can say what they want … don’t care. Shoot the socialists on this log probably thing my real man is McRuger. LOL
    Thanks for the discussion G.

  7. @ Mc Ruger: I’m sure many reading our conspiratorial dialogue think you and I wear tinfoil hats to bed. However, even if you take out the conspiratorial elements of our banter, the same exact scenario is still upon us and unfolding before our very eyes. So for the disbelievers, conspiracy or not, I submit the following factual events that undeniably must be digested into your reality:

    Fact – Since Obama took office this Nation is more divided than ever.
    Fact – Obama has usurped extensive executive power beyond the will of Congress.
    Fact – We’ve seen more Obama scandals and corruption than any other presidency.
    Fact – There are an unprecedented amount of lawsuits against Obama and Holder.
    Fact – The IRS really was abused to conduct covert political attacks against Obama rivals.
    Fact – The BATFE really was abused to create false flag efforts for gun control.
    Fact – The Obama administration truly failed in Benghazi and then covered it up.
    Fact – Violations are so extensive Congress has considered Impeaching Obama and Holder.
    Fact – Citizens have purchased unprecedented amount of arms and ammo.
    Fact – The Federal Government has stockpiled unprecedented amounts of arms and ammo.
    Fact – There actually was a Nevada standoff between hundreds of Feds and civilians.
    Fact – Putin has clearly walked all over Obama showing how feeble he really is.
    Fact – There really are protests, riots, and shootings continuing in Ferguson, Missouri.
    Fact – Secret Service cares so little for Obama they’ve allowed multiple security breaches.
    Fact – There have been more high profile resignations under Obama than any other.
    Fact – Obama really did pull all troops out of Iraq ignoring the advice of Generals.
    Fact – ISIS is truly overwhelming and exceeding anything Obama was prepared for.
    Fact – Ebola is deadly and spreading out of control despite the CDCs claims and efforts.
    Fact – FEMA has actually established nationwide camps and protocol under Obama.

    …and this list is just what’s been made public. I’m certain I’ve forgotten some things, plus one can only imagine how much more has been hidden behind the public’s backs. If anyone here actually believes they know all the Governments dirty little secrets, think again. I can assure you this is only what’s been allowed to surface.

    So I ask the non-believers to take this list of reality and consider, even without an ounce of conspiracy, how it would still play out given just the facts. One thing for certain is, if Ebola reaches epidemic proportions by election time in 2016, the election will surely be postponed and Obama will remain the sitting President until a resolution can be agreed upon by Congress. Well one only needs to know how poorly Congress cooperates now, so you can easily imagine how badly that will play out in the future.

    Now on to the matter of how elections get suspended or postponed – the Constitution clearly gives the States domain over their entire elections process, including Federal Elections, so it would not be a matter for the President (short of another Executive Order) or Congress to decide.

    This is not a new dilemma given elections have been postponed due to emergencies in the past. For example past floods, the terrorist attacks of 9/11, and hurricanes such as Katrina and Sandy have all led to court or governor authorized delays in local elections.

    The only time Congress has ever had a say was upon setting into law an official election date for the Presidential Election to be the first Tuesday in November. This was enacted in 1845. So while Congress has no authority over the manner in which States conduct Federal Elections, this does establish Congress’ authority over WHEN a Federal Election will occur.

    This creates a precedent that would allow a reasonable person to conclude that Congress does in-fact possess the lawful ability to suspended or postponed a Presidential Election given their pre-established authority to govern the times and dates of such elections, but that is all.

    So now that such Congressional authority has been historically established, so then does the President have the ability to issue an Executive Order just as powerful in force as Congress’ ability to pass laws. So make no mistake, Obama will do this – as he has done many times already in order to override Congress.

    Each time Obama issues an Executive Order, it remains in force until dissenters can contest the order in Federal Court. Well, that process is so drawn out that the intended affect by Obama will have already been realized and he will remain President while the Court spend years deliberating such an order. And there you have it.

    1. * G-MAN.

      I’ve been listening to you since 1993. I’ve found funny at times, when you talk about your family antics. But from 2008 or 2009, you’ve changed. And not for the better. You seem to be consumed with extra-ordinary large amount of HATE, and I’m trying to understand why. Maybe you can enlighten me, about your All Consuming Hate…

    2. If anyone is paying attention. They are setting it up right now exactly as discussed. It only took 3 cases of Ebola to get elected officials and the public on both sides to join forces under the banner of “government needs to do more”.
      Today the administration appointed a czah that is nothing more than a implementation expert who will assist in moving the plan along.

    3. Of course you thought that..That’s what MSNBC told you to think and not having the ability to think for yourself you believe it without question. That’s how socialists function. I’m sure you’re buying the new lie that Ebola is the GOPs fault.

    4. resonds to Mc Ruger.

      Actually, I got a copy online of the Congressional Record. You know the one the general public can acquire, when they want to know what bills have been passed or not passed. You should try it yourself, You’ll be amazed what goes on in Congress. That doesn’t make it on the national news and/or press!

    5. @ Conundrum: You see, people spout off on things they know absolutely nothing about and never really take the time to truly educate themselves as to where blame should actually lie.

      When it comes to recurring annual budgets for executive departments, of which falls under the President, Congress does not actually prepare such financial plans. Instead, decisions that shapes each budget squarely falls within the responsibility of each respective department to determine where cuts or increases will be made, signed off by department head, and then submitted to Congress for annual approval.

      Thereafter, Congress merely approves or disapproves each department’s overall budget from a monetary perspective in conjunction with their Constitutional requirement to balance the National Deficit.

      Not only would it be an impossible task for Congress to manage every department’s budget, but it is neither their job to do so. This is precisely why Congress must trust each department to do its job by managing their own individual budgetary needs and thus has provided each department the funds to have a robust financial consulting staff at their disposal.

      While major programs such as expensive new military aircraft or National Health Care do find their way into the Congressional spotlight, as well they should, they are still a part of some agencies budget that was submitted and awaiting Congressional approval no different than any other department’s budget submittal.

      However, when it comes to managing and sustaining fundamental security assets to protect your own government employees, that is as academic as knowing you need to budget for staplers and paper clips and would fall squarely on the shoulders of each department head – and has never been a matter for Congress.

      So in the case where security was deficient enough to lead to the tragic yet preventable deaths of 4 Benghazi Embassy employees which included Ambassador Stevens, the blame is irrefutably on the head of the State Department.

      So while the Congressional Record may show you the overall flow of Congressional budget approvals, in no way will you find where Congress had a hand in the decisions of the State Departments security budget.

      To find such specifics, you would need to study the final print within -The Secretary of State, Congressional Budget Justification which is submitted to Congress each fiscal year and approved by that department head whom was none other than the Secretary of State – Hilary Rodham Clinton.

    6. In responds to, G-Man.

      Ahhh, G-Man, you make your WW2 counterpart proud. Following in the footstep of Paul Joseph Goebbels, you and your elegant language skills. Can BS, and LIE with the Best and Greatest of the world LIERS.

    7. @ Conundrum: Thank you. I wasn’t certain as to how to fully perceive you until now. Some dissenters in this forum are just liberal assholes dependent upon mindless talking points because that’s how mommy and daddy raised ‘em up, so they don’t know no better.

      Others are simply of weak character and must be led around in order to have a sense of fulfillment, and thus they are beholden to defend their masters for fear of being cut off.

      And then there are the genetically inferior who suffer from mental depravities which are not yet fully understood by science.

      For you to somehow think there be any connection between a German anti-Semite of the 30’s and my factual statements as to how U.S. Budgets are approved, surely places you in the genetically defective mental arena.

      At least now other readers know not to waste another keystroke on your insanity inspire rants.

    8. Yeah I’m sure you did that. I am also certain that a budget cut was the reason the stand down order was given.

      the final bill, after being worked on by the Democratic-led Senate, put in more money than what had passed in the House. The final bill, which passed with bipartisan support, gave a total of $2.37 billion to these accounts for fiscal 2012 — about $270 million less than what the administration had requested.

      Maybe before you shoot your mouth off you should actually do your research. Democratic lead Senate approved the final bill. Moron.

    9. McRuger

      But just look at all the security that $270-million dollars, would provided and Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens might be a live TODAY !!!

      PS. Please stop shooting yourself in the foot, “Your missing too many toe’s already,”

    10. That’s correct assuming any of it went to security. it’s to bad your democratic lead senate saw fit it to hold back the money. It’s to bad the additional security was requested prior to the cuts and it’s to bad that when under attack and begging for help it was denied.
      It’s to bad that the administration was more worried about appearances than Americans under attack. Its really to bad there are people like you that are unable to accept the truth and continue to support the worst president in history.
      Now please drop it, your ignorance bores me.

    11. Hey thanks i’m glad I could annoy you…. It is so easy with you brain washed types though.

      Take you pills and go lay down with your Obama doll.

    12. BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA… I’m sorry, can’t stop laughing about your, “Obama doll”. Now that was freak’n hilarious! Even funnier is I can actually picture him with his thumb in his mouth rocking fetal as he clings to a little Obama doll. BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…

    13. Thanks G-Man…..
      My understanding is he also has a cheesecake posters of Hilary Clinton and Pelosi.

    14. McRuger (?)

      I haven’t quite figured you out yet? Are you a Ass Kisser or Brown Noser?? I’m leaning towards Brown Noser!

      G-Man, must supply you with really good Knee Pads.

    15. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
      Please moron keep you fantasies to yourself.
      You Socialists are such a waste of time and so stupid but make for a good laugh.

    16. @ Conundrum: Well, maybe you should stop whatever it is you call “thought”. Apparently for you it’s a dangerous proposition, especially given that you “thought” Congress was GOP led. I suppose you believe Obama is a Republican too. In any case, you’re uninformed statement is the only thing anyone finds “funny” at the moment. Your name explains it all.

  8. Thats why the FEMA Campsd were set up in the first place. Civil unrest or some kind of medical emergency, like a Ebola epidemic! Send some one with it to the Camps and then send all of your political enemies! Just like Africa, the health workers come and pick you up and you disappear forever!

    Barry Soetoro has lots of civil unrest arrows in his quiver! Something will come before 2016 elections! Better be making plans now to change your way of living one way or the other!

  9. @ Mc Ruger: The ultimate goal of the current regime is to keep Obama in power beyond the 2016 elections. The only way to succeed at such a major undertaking is to create such massive civil unrest that elections become impossible to hold, thus leaving Obama in continued control until Congress comes up with a solution.

    With Obama remaining in office during this period of civil unrest, this regime will be able to finish their work of reshaping this country beyond anything we once recognized as our Nation.

    This regime has been intentionally agitating the Nation into civil unrest through division ever since Obama took office. Try though they may, but they just haven’t yet found the right buttons to press in order to spark things into a full-fledged event that would warrant martial law.

    This regime’s biggest obstacle is they can’t push too hard or it would look obvious even to the lamest of liberal followers which might lose their support. So they must make it appear as if the civil unrest reared its head from a people versus people issue and thus the Federal Government would then give the appearance they had no choice but to step in. To an extent they would maintain the look of the good guys just trying to quell civil unrest.

    Well now time is running out for this regime to create such civil unrest. Overall we minded our civil manners and did not take their bait. So, unfortunately this regime has had to resort to plan “B”. What better method to keep people away from the polls while also creating civil unrest than to insert the Ebola virus on a large scale across this Nation?

    This virus has been played with by the CIA and CDC in 34 outbreaks in various countries since 1976. They know how to control it because they invented it. The unfortunate part is that this time around the Obama regime is in charge of how it is dispensed at the moment.

    Simply put, Obama and his ilk have the antidote and will be just fine; unfortunately certain apposing members in Congress may not. And thus, regardless whether we take back Congress in November, it will not matter because the regime has thought of everything to keep Obama in office.

    Thereafter it is just a matter of creating just enough infection to panic us into accepting martial law for our own protection. I think you can put the rest together from there.

    1. G-man YOU DESCRIBE EXACTLY WHAT I SEE HAPPENING. I am certain that the events at the ranch in Nevada was a dress rehearsal to see if such an event would push people far enough to satisfy the agenda. It nearly worked but did not push us far enough. The will try another event and as you say it may be the Ebola virus. I read a book 20 years ago about Ebola called The Hot Zone. I idea that they have known about this for 20 years or more and are not prepared for it is absurd and it fits the scenario perfectly.
      I am guessing there are still big plans for Eric Holder in all of this and Hilary will be in a big supporting roll.
      I addition if I am not mistaken war powers allows the senate the power to suspend elections in the event of war. I believe this is the bases of the present conflict with ISIS and the planned weak response. If I read it correctly. The conflict in with ISIS will escalate over the next 2 years expand and eventually draw in Israel but that is another story.
      I sure hope people are paying attention.

  10. It will be a Civil War actually…..and it will be triggered by Obama and his magic pen. Yes people will at that point take up arms and use them. He has made h9s move and will then try to use the army to put the people down. The military will be fractured and those that side with him will be at best traitors to the American people too! I have faith that the majority of the military will NOT side with him and kill or incarcerate their fellow Americans. Either way my decision is made, I will die fighting on my feet than on my knees as a slave of the Communists! There is no point as living like that a slave of a foreign power and idealogy! I am a member of the greatest generation, I cannot let my fellow Americans down I cannot surrender. It will start when Obama makes the first move, or when Hillary is elected,

  11. I cant believe that more gun manufactures or parts suppliers dont leave states where they are not welcome. Why pay payroll taxes and supply jobs to a state that does not support the 2nd amendment.

  12. Man you are a real whinny little guy Donnie! Grow up and do some reading……Criminals do not obey the laws and $’s really don’t fit in their equations either, so you are AGAIN waaaaaaay of base!

    1. Is that some kind of threat Donnie???? Now you are really showing the list just what a LibTard you really are. Threaten a 73 yo man…….Is that all you got Donnie?????? C’Mon man is that it??????

  13. Well explained G-Man and certainly agree with your conclusions. In the seventh paragraph you address National division. It is obvious to anyone with an open mind and an ounce of common sense that National division is taking place and it is by design. The question I continually ponder is what purpose it serves the socialist movement to divide the nation. Politically it secures and maintains votes through the “we and they” mentality. Keeping a large part of the population misinformed and dependent on the government and part of the population paying the bills. You secure the votes of gay, women, blacks, Mexicans, Muslims, etc. by telling you bas the other side hates them and wants the eliminated.
    So I ask myself why attack Constitutional freedom and do what you can to anger half the country to the point of insurrection. I come up with 2 things. First, the conspiracy theorists believe the socialist movement wants to eliminate anyone who would raise arms against the government. Perhaps a bit far-fetched. Second and more viable is that if the socialists can draw Constitutional Americans into an armed conflict or several armed conflicts, they would have the justification they need to order martial law or more likely require national gun registration or even requiring all guns to be turned into the government. The may sound a little paranoid and or nuts but the set-up is just too obvious to not wonder about where they are trying to go.

  14. @ TwoDrinkMinimum: Actually civil war is on as I type this. However, you are mistaken to characterize it as a “Second American Revolution” given that would indicate a war that brought countrymen together in order to secure our freedoms and repel the oppression imposed by another country, as in the “American Revolution”. I do believe you intended to mean a second “Civil War”, whereby our own countrymen were pitted against one another over internal differences as a matter of State.

    Having cleared that up and as stated above, the second “Civil War” is already upon us. Granted it is being carried out in a disorganized manner by various factions, but nevertheless, blood has been shed in the name of change and internal strife.

    To put things into perspective, these various U.S. factions really begin no differently than the various elements the Arab domain is contending with in the Middle-East with their vast number of factions and Muslim ideologies (Shiite vs. Sunni) all willing to kill as they compete for ultimate control. However, from an American perspective, we just see it as one big continuous civil war over there all the same. That is until one group known as ISIS emerged triumphant (thus far) over all others.

    So, here in the U.S. the same logic can be applied. While there are many many factions here, none have managed to rise to the level that warrants singular notoriety as a cohesive group… at least not yet. But as stated, blood has been shed in the name of their extreme ideologies and armed insurrection. For example, the recent slaughter of 2 police officers in Las Vegas. Though only 2 people in that extremist group, they did, “make the FIRST MOVE” using firearms in the name of an ideology and lives were lost.

    Now let’s move to a larger scale group of ideologists willing to pull a trigger in the name of their beliefs and civil discourse. The riots and civil unrest in Ferguson Missouri, which has continued for months now, and has culminated in the formation of a semi-organized group that has clearly shown their willingness to fire upon the government. When viewed in the context of civil war, several government forces have been shot and wounded while a couple of rebels have been killed in the name of their cause.

    To understand the indicators of civil war even better, one must know the signs – the first signs of war are failed negotiations and mass usurpation of government power. Obama has accelerated that power beyond anyone’s imagination. The states were supposed to do the bulk of governance for themselves while the Federal Government was only ever intended to maintain a very small role in monitoring Civil Rights and enforcement. But now look at how incredibly lopsided it has all become.

    More so it is as if Obama intentionally wants this National division with all his unprecedented an illegal executive orders over issues that have strictly divided our nation clearly down the line between State and Federal issues with gun control, lack of Immigration enforcement, ObamaCare, gay marriage, Core Curriculum, increased welfare, abuse of IRS, abuse of EPA, the economy, increasing the deficit, cutting defense, and all the scandals and corruption within this Congress and the Administration (e.g., Fast & Furious, IRS, Benghazi, etc.). I don’t think one could create a better recipe to force civil unrest.

    So the next indicator in preparation for a civil war is sides arming up. We just watched almost 2 years of empty ammo shelves and barren gun cabinets at dealers; all while reading about how Federal Agencies that shouldn’t even have guns or ammo are arming up too, (e.g., Dept. of Education, National Weather, USDA, etc.). The fact that millions of American’s are stockpiling ammo and purchasing unprecedented amounts of guns while the Federal Government is doing the same – should alarm anyone.

    And the final indicator that civil war is upon us would be an actual organized engagement on the battlefield. So notwithstanding the planned Ferguson riots or cops gunned down in Las Vegas, we’ll call this next event – “The Battle at Bundy Ranch” in Nevada.

    So even though the Federal side ultimately chose to retreat without engaging, make no mistake that was a massive armed encounter between 2 distinct organized sides, one of which was Federal and the other civilian rebels. We are at civil war, it’s just that no one realizes it yet.

  15. So what you are basically saying, and I agree with, is that America started off as the result of a revolution, the Revolutionary War against Great Britain. Now here we are some 238 years later, potentially having come full circle into an era where another revolution could be looming on the horizon. The key difference is that with the first revolution Americans were faced with external aggression from a nation with which we, as a people, had distanced ourselves. This looming revolution, to the contrary, would be against the core leadership of the nation which has become totally out of control with followers who have been in political office, some for many decades, who have become self-serving, indifferent to the will of the people, supported largely by those who are recipients of entitlements ( welfare, food stamps, govt freebies etc ). It is clear that the Founding Fathers had a vision of independence from an oppressive foreign government. This generation seems to be gaining a desire to be free from an oppressive domestic government

  16. You could be right on the second civil war issue. However, should one occur it will be the result of some government created disaster ( food shortage, natural disaster, major catastrophe, a national plague ). Some of these are already a reality and looming on the horizon. This could potentially cause top leaders in govt to decide to institute martial law to quell the threats of or actually rioting. We seem to be close to that already.

    1. @ SteveM.

      There’s an old saying, and I don’t know who Coined it. But it goes like this, “The Closest Point and the Farthest Point, Is the One and the Same, Because, Whatever Goes Around, Comes Around to the Same Exact Point.” The Point in which your standing on, is both the Closest and Farthest Point.

  17. Left wing liberals are never content to politically damage their own respective states. They continually seek to spew their nonsensical ideologies to other states. Their anti-gun vitrolic mindset clearly runs counter to the US Constitution and Bill of Rights but they could care less. The northeastern US states and California have been hopelessly contaminated and as liberal Democrats infilitrate other states such as CO, MN, WA they spew their ideologies into those states as well. In time, as America becomes more polarized I envison there being a second civil war and there will not be enough body bags to handle the mess.

    1. @ SteveM.

      I think the chances of a Second American Revolution is, between NIL and NONE. Because, nobody can agree to anything, or any cause. Also nobody wants to make the FIRST MOVE. Their all waiting for the OTHER GUY too MAKE the FIRST MOVE, NOT THEMSELVES!!!

  18. All the gun industry companies should move out of the communist democrat run states to good old boy republican states. I live in Tennessee and so far it has a favorable gun environment not as good as I would like. The problem comes with the two high crime cities Memphis and Nashville ( black gangs) this causes democrats to get on the national liberal band wagon of gun control. Another problem the south is having is the migration of communist liberals to our area for retirement and bringing their communist views with them to our voting booths.They should just stay in the states that they have already ruined!

    1. @ Donnie Lowe.

      I’m really not sure what your point is? Having weapons manufacturers in the state isn’t going to reduce crime, if anything, its going the increase crime. Because the GANGS won’t have to leave the state to get their weapons, if the weapons are being manufactured there. I’m assuming that the GANGS $$$ is going to buy just as well as everybody else’s $$$. And the weapons manufacturer’s aren’t going to care where their $$$ come from, THERE’s or YOUR’s…

  19. This is awesome. I live in Massachusetts and I hope that S&W makes the move out next. Our gun laws are outrageous, and if smith took it upon themselves to make a stand that would be HUGE

  20. Good on ProMag. It’s too bad that only a few of their employees were able to go with the company but when the “left coast” finally realizes their mistake, I hope that tumbleweeds and buzzards is all that remains to keep the leftists company.

    1. Did you read the article? It states that of the 200 employees at the California facility only a few of them made the move to Phoenix.

  21. California, Maryland, New York, Mass. & Conn. would much prefer to have a pretty new soap box than JOB’s. These state seem to have the inmates running the asylum.

    It’s time to move to states that are business friendly.

    1. It’s all good and well to capitalize a word for unnecessary emphasis but what exactly are you labeling theory?

    2. So where are Conn and MD and NY AND MASS? I always thought they were??? Maybe the libs moved them or changed thier names?????

  22. Commiefornia has chosen to continue its own grave-digging. I recently had the good fortune to use a friend’s indoor range at the gun club he belongs to in Scottsdale, AZ; it’s about as “dangerous” as a candy store, but try to argue that fact with a liberal…especially when the words “children” or “school” are introduced. So it’s “Goodbye, California; Hello Phoenix.”

  23. I wish ProMag all of the best. Hope their quality improves. I have bought 6 mags for a 22 magnum (A-16) and all 6 do not operate properly. I think they have gone to too much plastic. Need to get some steel back into the process maybe.

  24. In honor of MagPul leaving Colorado and relocating to SCI went to a local gun show and bought a few more 30 round Magpul Gen 3 mags. Although I got a great deal I did it because 1) it pisses off the liberal leftists 2 ) I only had 90 already 3) it is my RIGHT to do so 4) the prices are not likely to get much better 4) Re-read #1

  25. I will continue to support any company that had to flee the over bearing Rebukic of communism kalif. This state has banned any and all means for citizens to uphold the 2nd Ammendment and continue to infringe upon the rights of all citizens. I will also be fleeing this horrible state, but sadly can’t flee fast enough because of my kids.

  26. I moved to California many years ago to appease my wife and her family there. The amount of anti Americanism there horrified me and I never felt at ease there. After my career in law enforcement was over, I moved back to Washington. Now that I am back, I am realizing that the liberals on the coast areas are making policy and changing laws that are infringing upon the whole state. I am not surprised that companies decide to move out of California. I just hope that it doesn’t start happening here in Washington too.

  27. I have watched as anti gun policiticans with anti gun legislation has effectively forced legitimate businesses leave their respective states. The people who elected those legislators to office, allowing them to pass anti gun laws are the ones ultimately responsibile. Those states receiving these businesses will prosper while those losing those businesses will suffer. Most of these loser states are located in the northeast and in Califorinia. Wishing continued good success to the receiving states and its good riddance to those state who have ultimately lost.

  28. Fully support moves from anti firearm states and boycotts of businesses that are hostile to legal carry individuals. I no longer shop or eat out in any business that has indicated firearm carry is not allowed or frowned upon. I would hope more gun owners and their families would follow this example. I try to spend as little as possible at any business in these anti 2nd amendment states. When I must travel in them I even fill my fuel tank before entry and only buy enough to get out of state.

  29. All those freedom dissruptive politicians in California should take notice. People are fed up with their assassination of the United States Constitution. Many jobs are leaving the state for elsewhere. Maybe the positions they were interested with may also be on the chopping block next? I mean, no one is safe in the career path they have chosen in this Country any longer. Here today…gone tomorrow. That is, say no to
    re-election of those who would pervert your rights. Instead of al the jobs being moved, move the politicians out to pasture. As for ProMag, they have a reputation in Texas for making shoddy products that are unreliable. Although I wish them well and am pleased they left a U.S. Contitutionally challenged state such as California, it will take a LOT of doin’ to repair the product reliability image.

  30. Good for ProMag, and all the other companies that have left drooling, liberal, fascist states. Us folks in the heartland welcome those companies, and hope that more will follow them.

    1. Better than paying taxes to the liberals who want to totally shackel, disarm, and enslave the second amendment supporters.

  31. The left’s relentless demonization of guns has obviously had its intended effect. When The Sacramento Gun Club announced plans to build a state-of-the-art, 4,000-square-foot facility in a properly-zoned section of Rancho Cordova, California, it should have come off without a hitch. Because the club is being constructed only 250 feet from the George Washington Carver School of Arts and Sciences, however, parents and school administrators are up in arms. It’s important to note that the gun range is entirely indoors. This isn’t a situation where you have the possibility of stray bullets finding their way into the nearby playground. It’s a $6 million facility, completely enclosed. Still, the protestors are out in full force. “Even though it’s legal, it’s still wrong. You shouldn’t mix schools with guns,” said one GWC student. It seems slightly unfair to pick apart the arguments of children, but this student’s sentiments accurately represent those of the protesting community, both in sentiment and substance. Parents and school administrators have taken leave of their senses, arguing against the proximity of the range simply because of unfounded fears. These are the same liberals who threw scorn on New Yorkers who didn’t want an Islamic Center built in the shadow of Ground Zero. But tolerance, of course, only matters when they say it does. After spewing their outrage at a Sacramento City Unified School District meeting last week, the trustees passed a meaningless resolution asking the City Council to move the club. The City Council has no such authority, of course, because everything about this construction is appropriate under the law. – See more at: http://www.leanrightamerica.org/uncategorized/nearby-gun-range-has-ca-school-officials-outraged/#sthash.UYthaCxB.dpuf

  32. You are 100% right… And it will come to us good old boys defending what is left of our country. after this Islamist administration is gone if that is even possible.

  33. My heart goes out to all the loyal workers who have lost or will lose their jobs because of the disconnect or lawmakers and politicians. Ladies and Geletlem, this is simply a business decision made by these companies. The same way a company moves when their customer demographics changes. In order to survive, these companies are forced to spend millions of dollars to relocate (money that could have stayed in the local communities). If you had a company and lawmakers changed laws that would prevent your company to continue to exist and provide for your families, I am certain you would do the same to meet your commitment to your families. What we should concentrate on is brining jobs back to America and no allow them to go to cheap labor overseas companies.
    I hold our lawmakers and politicians 100% responsible, not the individual company owners.

    1. JOE

      The problem with that statement is. Why should the rest of the surrounding community have to PICK-UP the Tax Tab, if the the Corporation doesn’t want to pay it’s OWN TAXES. There are many “DRY FREE” Whiskey and Bourbon producing states. Just because they can’t drink the product, doesn’t prevent them from selling to states that can drink the product. “MONEY TALK’S, Merit Walk’s.”

  34. I concur with the company move to a friendly state, and perhaps the employees that they carried were the real team players, and not those who only show up to draw a check. Sooner or later there will be a war fought once again in our country because the workforce that is paying taxes are just about out numbered by those that will not work and keep demanding more freebies. ISIS fanatics are being caught at the US/Mexican border, and China is going to want the loans to the US paid back or else. With our military scattered all across the globe, and having been reduced in strength, a country with millions of troops could get a real good foothold before a large enough defense could be mounted to force them out. It could possibly come down to the good ol boys and their guns and ammo, hiding behind trees and hills, to convince to bad boys to leave.

    1. CHERRYBARK

      Which ISIS fighters would that be, considering no recorded case of any Mexico/USA crossings. Maybe your talking Canada/USA crossings. How, about Columbia/USA crossings, by-way of semi-submerged Go-Fasts.

    2. @ cherrybark.

      Looking a Fox Anchorperson Greta Van Susteren, bought the story of San Diego’s Republican Congressman Duncan Hunter’s claims of ISIS crossing over the Mexican/USA Border. And being a New Woman, it would be very easy to verify his claims.

    3. AMEND.

      It should say. Looking at Fox Anchorperson Greta Van Systeren’s, Facial Expressions. Even she didn’t by the story being told to her by San Diego’s Republican Congressman Duncan Hunter, about ISIS at the Mexican/USA Border. MY BAD.

  35. Hi, I wanted to make a couple of comments in reply to some of the above. I have noticed that quite a few people seem to think that other states have less gun control issues than Cali, and in degree that may be true, but the entire United States is loosing the war for the Bill of Rights. The U.S. Govt. has been at war with the people of the U.S.almost since the Bill of Rights was ratified. They have been screwing with all of the rights that we were supposedly guaranteed for over two hundred years. For those of you that think that the conservative party is the savior of the gun owner, I have to remind you that the biggest anti gun bill to that time was signed by one of the most unAmerican presidents ever, Ronald Reagan. The Brady Bill was as unconstitutional as anything ever signed by any other president. It took a moron like Bill Clinton to do any worse, and that dimwit was the guy that basically started this recession. If you are looking for the root cause of the problems in the United States, you have to look at the educational system. The entire system has been broken for so long, that I can’t even understand how we ever turned out anybody that can do anything right. The system teaches nothing practical after about eight grade. You have to go to college to really learn how to make anything of value of and for yourself. There is no accountability for the students, nor for the staff. Maybe it’s because it’s all government run. Or worse yet, it’s church run. There is a reason that there is a period in history that is called the “Dark Ages”. That was when the churches ran everything. Churches, and Government, both want to control everything, and everyone, instead of letting us take care of us. If we all follow the CONSTITUTION, which was designed to stop the church and big governments from controlling us, we can make our own way out of the mess of the 20th Century. If we don’t strictly adhere to the concepts and practices left to us by the framers of the Constitution, and the Declaration, then we will only get the same controls that they tried to free us from. Put money into schools, not welfare, not health care, not prisons, not administration. If any of you have any other suggestions, I would truly like to hear them. Jim

    1. Jim A,

      “For those of you that think that the conservative party is the savior of the gun owner, I have to remind you that the biggest anti gun bill to that time was signed by one of the most unAmerican presidents ever, Ronald Reagan. The Brady Bill was as unconstitutional as anything ever signed by any other president.”

      You are rewriting history to fit your liberal talking points. Reagan didn’t sign the Brady bill, Billy Clowntoon did that in 1993. In 1994 the same Billy Clowntoon signed the Assault Weapons ban. Later that same year in the 1994 election the Democrats were slaughtered at the polls, and Republicans took control of Congress for the first time since 1954.

      A 10 year ‘sunset’ clause on the 1994 Assault Weapons ban required a vote of approval in 2004 for it to keep it in effect. In 2004 with a Republican controlled House and Senate, and George W Bush in the white house, it was allowed to expire without a vote.

      The Gun Control Act of 1968 was signed by another liberal, Lyndon B. Johnson. In Fact pretty much all national gun control laws have been passed by liberals, so don’t attempt to say there isn’t a difference!

    2. Well I was going to respond to you point by point but to save on my time i’ll just summarize. You are so typical of a liberal sheep. Nothing but lies and more lies. You do not have a clue what your talking about
      If you really want suggestions how about this. Don’t post anymore because you’re an idiot.

  36. Who can blame them for leaving? What so many don’t understand is how important it is to protect our basic rights in the Constitution. Next could be speech or…?
    We in WA State are about to see a show-down on an Initiative (594) which is a gross overstep. Like I tell some, even if you hate guns, only vote for change (especially if it changes basic rights) which is guaranteed to improve safety based in data and fact, not a slick big money promise based in belief.

    Smart move ProMag, best to you in AZ.

  37. Good for the companies that moved. Maybe next time states that want to pass stupid laws that do little to stop real crime will think twice before it effect there tax base and bottom line. I don’t know of a single state that wouldn’t love to have a manufactures move in with several hundred good paying jobs.

    I just wish these companies would have moved to my home state, I would like to retire in a few years but the possibility of working for one of these companies doing something I like and have a keen interest in might have been a good reason to stay in the work force a little longer. If you heart is in something its easy to keep your head in the game doing something you love.

  38. I think that the companies that move from unfriendly states is a great ideal. I support all their efforts to make their products available to enthusiasts. If California and other anti-gun states don’t want their business, I would like to see them crash as they will. These states are struggling withe lower taxes and the people who run their economies should take up the slack. Good luck with that, liberals.

    1. ROB

      If its such a great idea. Why don’t they take their LOYAL EMPLOYEE’S with them. Instead of destroying their lives, by “Pink Slipping” them and taking away their hard earned HEALTH CARE and RETIREMENT PACKAGES. Manufacturer’s proclaim loyalty from their employee’s, well where’s their loyalty too their employee’s.

    2. Maybe if the “loyal employees” voted out the progressives destroying California they would still have jobs!

    3. Let’s put the blame where it belongs, on the voters and politicians who created the problem. Every employee is not willing to uproot and the company has every right to move its operation to a more favorable location. The states who create these hostile conditions deserve what they get. If there are adverse consequences for employees, they need to take it up with their politicians.

    4. How do you know they don’t??? Many companies offer jobs to employees who are willing to relocate. Problem is, most employees have established lives at their current location. Kids in school, spouse’s job, friends, etc. They make the choice whether to stay or go.

    5. EnoughAlready.

      The difference is that the employees, didn’t have a choice. The company chose for them, they personally HAND PICK the Employees that were to go with them. How is that making a choice, if the RANKIN-FILE EMPLOYEES weren’t even given a choice.

  39. I agree with all company’s who leave. Seriously, politicians really need to sit down and read our constitution. I’m tired of them infringing on our rights as free citizens. People need to be up in arms and tell them stop. The more we roll over for them, the more they try and take. I’m so fortunate to live in this great country and I’m Damn sure if they want a fight, I’ll give then one. To hell with all of government as it stands now.

  40. I applaud the companies whose management are not cow towing to these liberal ———————- who are trying to make all of us into what they think we should be. Thank yoal

  41. There were some guys a few years back that also took a stand….named Madison, Washington , Jefferson, Adams et al Congratulations to ProMag ! ATI, Remington, Magpul and Beretta and the others for doing the same Now if only Smith & Wesson and Colt and some others did the same Stay strong it’s tough but worth it David Powell President Triangle Chapter Safari Club International

  42. “All guns were legally registered at one time.” Nope, I don’t think so. I believe what you are alluding to is that all firearms sold through FFL holders, since the inception of that requirement. list the original purchaser. And who has those records, the seller. The BATF is not legally entitled to retain a database of those sales. If they have one, they are violating the law. Like climate change computer models, any predictive estimate of the total number of firearms in this country is just another theoretical number based on guesstimates. Such models are generally bases on flawed, biased, science.

  43. Three Cheers for ProMag.. In my opinion all the the gun companies should move out of the Peoples Republic of California. Jimenez started it and they should all move. Having lived in TPRofC I know the problems there and while I feel sorry for the residents who live there, they have no one else to blame but themselves for electing the people they do. I live in Florida now where gun laws make sense.. 🙂

  44. G-Man.

    I suspect this is the same Fuzzy Logic Mathematical Computer Algorithm that Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin uses to Balance the Budget, Make the Health Care System Work, Increase the Retirement Age to 72, and, so on. So fuzzy you can’t shine the brightest arc-light through it. YOU KNOW, THE BLACK HOLE ALGORITHM.

  45. @ E Wolfe: The means by which we calculate such numbers is more scientific than the public could imagine. While I cannot go into details, I will say we do have an advantage on this particular type of statistic given that all guns at some point were legally registered.

    Unlike our ability to tabulate the true number of illegal aliens or drugs that actually cross the border each day, guns actually are documented. Nevertheless, we still publish statistics on illegal alien and drug estimates which are regularly used by the Executive Office in making policy decisions. Given our estimates have been accepted as quite accurate over the years, we proceed with confidence in other statistical endeavors such as weapons as well.

    So, given that guns actually do get registered by the manufacturer, that location information combined with expert analysis across other factual datum from local and regional theft reports, crime scene evidence, insurance claims, natural disposition of weaponry logs, and undisclosed sources of unauthorized imports based on HUMINT, we feel even more confident in our final weapons statistical products than even the illegal alien and drug reports we produce. Yet both are still authoritatively utilized in an official capacity.

    That’s about as much as I am willing to divulge on the subject. If you wish to know more about this topic, feel free to file a request under the “Freedom of Information Act”. Our office has a convenient online site to guide you through the process at:

    http://www.justice.gov/oip/make-foia-request-doj

    1. Reposted in proper thread:

      All guns were legally registered at one time.” Nope, I don’t think so. I believe what you are alluding to is that all firearms sold through FFL holders, since the inception of that requirement. list the original purchaser. And who has those records, the seller. The BATF is not legally entitled to retain a database of those sales. If they have one, they are violating the law. Like climate change computer models, any predictive estimate of the total number of firearms in this country is just another theoretical number based on guesstimates. Such models are generally bases on flawed, biased, science.

      Segue: If you are using the same databases I refer to, and they are so inclusive, you should be able to recover the rest of those fast and furious weapons that went on a walkabout.

    2. @ e wolfe: You really haven’t a clue do you? The way you think the World should be and the way it truly is are two completely different realms. One is reality and the other fantasy.

      You can chose to continue arguing with me or you can chose to learn from me. The two choices before you will establish either your ignorance or your intellect.

      But more importantly in terms of reality and preparedness, rather than remain in a state of denial, the choices you make could prove either detrimental or prosperous…What say you?

  46. With idiots like Senator Kevin de León and his “magazine-clips” and 30 rounds in a 1/2 second state running the state, what can you expect? Of course criminals will unconditionally obey the law as well

  47. The sad part about Cal and the the issues are. my father just passed away 91 yrs young He grew up in ohio could hunt ,skin, live off the land. He would bring home rabit , frogs,etc .His mom would cookem up. he was a WWII vet . He tought me to shoot M1 Garand. I still have plus a colt 45. I love shooting , but I have no idea how to use them as a food gathering gun, Its so sad seems to be all about defending your self against 2 legged creatures. I grew up in Los Angeles area. No hunting ,No gathering, just go to the store and buy it . I now see why when I get older I want out of here Cal. that is. at least away from big cities or where there is no game. When the trucks stop we stop. Now i know why he always said CYA . (cover your ass) Iam 60 and wish I would have listened more. God Bless You Dad.
    I hope our leaders can get a grip. and not on MONEY.

    1. BJ,
      I left CA 2 years ago after 55 years there and moved to South Carolina. Hunting is so different here, people do it more out of necessity than sport. I know many who never buy any meat from the store. They hunt only what’s necessary to provide enough meat for their family for the year.

    2. Steve my dad moved to AZ 25 years ago now i know why he hated Cal the shit you have to deal with, just to survive and life is tough enough.when the shit hits the fan big bad voodoo living in a big city , don’t even think my BOBag is gona help.

  48. G-Man, POACHING…

    The first recorded act of Poaching, was recorded ~12 CE., during the Roman Empire (in what is now the country of France.) I’m pretty sure It still exists today, in places like. Ooh, California. There might No Hunting Laws in place in California, but, I suspect it still occurs.

    1. @ ThisSideUP^: I’m trying really hard to humor you here… pudding and poaching? Is your letter for the day “P”?

      Look, I laid some real stats on you, so I know they were unexpected and hard for you to accept. Especially because no one enjoys the feeling of being wrong, I get that… but seriously, protracting and convoluting an issue will never make you right. It’s all smoke and mirrors, but when that clears, the stats will still be there waiting for you.

      I’m sorry you are not willing to accept my attempt to edify you. Hopefully other readers will find these stats enlightening so my time writing them won’t have been a total waste after all. Good day.

    1. @ThisSideUP^: You’re not making sense. Nothing I said has a thing to do with pudding.

      These stats include all weapons, if they were based otherwise, I would have stated so.

    2. And exactly how were those illegal gun stats tabulated? Did someone has an illegal gun tally day? Don’t be ridiculous. No one has the slightest accurate idea how many firearms are in California, or any other jurisdiction. And they shouldn’t, either.The number can only be speculation.

  49. @ ThisSideUP^: Actually you’d be wrong. According to official statistics California is at the bottom of the list in gun ownership and continues to drop as they become more restrictive. They rank #44 out of 51 States and D.C.

    These rankings actually do correlate directly with the number and types of anti-gun laws in the most restrictive states. So for example, if you know anything about the most restrictive states, one could speculate with a fair amount of accuracy to see Washington D.C. and New Jersey at the bottom of the list given they are the most restrictive.

    Well that speculation would be spot-on. Washington D.C. is in fact at the bottom of the list at #51, so it should be no surprise that New Jersey fell second to last at #50. Hawaii edged out New York for #49 and #48 respectively.

    Likewise, there is also a proven correlation over time that shows the more restrictive a state becomes, the lower it falls on the list each year. California is expected to have dropped even lower by the next scheduled analysis.

    Even more troubling is the statistics that also show the total loss of experience in these restrictive states. Meaning – generationally fathers are no longer able to pass down their shooting knowledge, skills, and practice with their sons, daughters, or wives. The entire genre of shooting, whether for hunting, defense, or competition has been lost forever within these regions.

    So with that, CherokeeScot is quite accurate in his assessment as to which states will be least able to defend themselves, whether the enemy is a local criminal, domestic terrorist, or foreign landing enemy.

  50. What is really a shame is that when the bad guys come, those states with strict firearm control will be the first states to be attacked and occupied, residents murdered, raped, tortured. We folks who are armed and ready for anything will never be beaten by anyone anywhere.

    1. CherokeeScot. REALLY?

      It seem to me a state like California, probably has more legally and/or ill-legally owned guns, the the rest of the country combined. I don’t see the the same scenario outcome happening, the way you see it.

    2. Amen. That post made me laugh. I like my guns, but nutjob talk like that is what makes the rest of us look like idiots.

  51. Like the others I will be sure to support companies that this difficult decision. The companies John mentioned above are not just making a business decision they are supporting our 2A rights in a very big way.

  52. I fully support their move in support of the 2nd Amendment, however, as a Californian, I hate to see conservatives and others leaving the state because every one which does reduces the numbers of us left to fight the good fight. However, I recognize that it is a business decision more than it is a moral decision in many such cases. It still sends a message. Unfortunately, those who need to hear that message don’t care.

    Every time I have learned of another company leaving my state, or any other state in this way, I always send them an email of support, and I have received back some great communications.

    I’m also retired law enforcement. While I do not want to see my brothers and sisters lose support of such companies, I have no problem with any company which basically says they will no longer sell to law enforcement or anyone else in the state. I say this even knowing that their relocation and refusal to sell their products in California, also reduces the products available to me.

  53. I support companies like ProMag leaving states like Kalifornia, New York and Maryland that won’t embrace the Second Amendment and moving their facilities, payrolls, etc to those states that do.

  54. Awesome!! The state of California like N.Y. do not deserve to get the tax dollars companies like ProMag provide them with. It is a shame good people will lose their jobs, but a line has to be drawn in the sand. I for one have purchased ProMags magazines in the past and will make it a point to further support them with more purchases in the future. Hopefully other manufacturers will follow the examples set forth by ProMag, Magpul, Kahr Arms, Beretta, Remington and a bunch of other manufacturers who have left 2nd amendment infringing states.

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