Consumer Information

What Would a Nationwide Gun Confiscation Look Like?

gun-confiscation

In July 2014, the city of New Orleans agreed to settle a lawsuit filed by the NRA and Second Amendment Foundation after the city’s Police Superintendent, P.Edwin Compass, ordered an illegal and unconstitutional gun confiscation after Hurricane Katrina. You can read more about the lawsuit here.

In a press conference, Compass, said, “No one will be able to be armed. We will take all weapons. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns.” The NRA produced an eye-opening short documentary on the gun grab: [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4] It is not the only time in modern history where government ordered a wide-scale gun confiscation. In 1941, President Franklin Roosevelt declared that all Japanese “aliens” living in the United States were to be unarmed.

Now, some have a warranted fear of a future nationwide gun confiscation. In fact, it may be already starting. In July, 2015, the Shooter’s Log reported about a new gun control measure handed down by the Obama Administration which would add hundreds of thousands of Americans to the “unauthorized to own a firearm” list by enacting a rule in which people who’s Social Security disability checks are handled by other person means they aren’t able to own firearms. You can read more about that here.

gun-confiscation
What if they did come and take them?
Certainly, we know that President Obama would love a country without guns. He has said numerous times how his personal biggest frustration and disappointment during his reign has been that he failed to do anything about “gun violence.” In June 2014, in a conversation with Tumblr founder, David Karp, Obama let his true feelings to light:

“A couple of decades ago Australia had a mass shooting similar to Columbine or Newtown, and Australia just said, ‘Well, that’s it. We’re not doing—we’re not seeing that again,’ and basically imposed very severe, tough gun laws, and they haven’t had a mass shooting since. I mean, our levels of gun violence are off the charts. There’s no other advanced, developed country on earth that would put up with this.”

Imagine this future. Do you think it would be possible in America? What would a nationwide gun confiscation look like? Tell us your thoughts and theories in the comment section.

[suzanne]

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Comments (877)

  1. Any attempt (at least in Texas) at a mass firearm ban and confiscation would result in another civil war. I can’t help but believe in my very core that most of the States and the people would rebel. Knowing many individuals from those states like Carl-Marxafornia and Wishington State I would also bank on a large segment of that population to join the rebellion. Our rights have been eroded and stolen from us long enough. The people have spoken through mostly peaceful elections that in last 2 cycles that maybe we are going to be able to convince the libtards that they WILL NOT gain any more ground. We can pray for a peaceful return to the Democracy promised to us by our founders, but we must be prepared to once again fight for our Liberty if necessary. I am ready, Are you?

  2. @charles, if I’m so anti-firearms, why do I own a dozen firearms? Indeed, I just ordered another box of MK262 mod1’s.
    As for war, been in two already, what’s another one to add to the pile? I served for very nearly 28 years and now I’ve retired.

  3. To make your point In the 2013-14 election cycle I believe the Koch Brothers ranked about number 30 in contributions.***** The two largest contributors to the Democrats, were unions and trial Lawyers.

  4. Wzrd1
    I’m a veteran. I’ve watched over a nearly thirty year career, a massive waste, fraud and abuse system that continues into today.******** waste fraud and abuse is aided and abetted by the power of government to favor those who share their agenda and tilt the playing field toward the outcome they want. without government , game over! Obama hasn’t CHANGED that, or anything else. He just ” hoped that you’d change”. At least the Republicans are up front about it !

  5. c: On the contrary, it has everything to do with this and it’s as good an example as anyone is likely to find of why a healthy skepticism of political forces that tell you why they should have firearms and you should be separated from yours is in order.

    What Yee was attempting had the potential to be very ugly. He was a Cali Senator. He voted his entire career to separate citizens from their guns at every opportunity. You can get away with dismissing it as you did because you are pretty sure nobody really knows anything about it.
    No they don’t but it sure happened. Almost defies belief that a man in his position could try to do what he did… but he did.

    Cordially

  6. @Bill Kennedy, business most certainly has caused major damage to our national economy, the minor depression is a proof of that.
    Obama finally recognized things that worked and eventually embraced them, buffering “too big to fail” businesses that if they sunk entirely would’ve tanked the *entire* economy. Many business journals, even those not beholden to business interests have proved that. Both in the past and today.
    They screwed up, we paid them and continue to do so.
    I’ll not even go into regulatory capture of governance. The worst being in defense.
    I’m a veteran. I’ve watched over a nearly thirty year career, a massive waste, fraud and abuse system that continues into today.
    Entire warehouses full of state of the art networking equipment, sold off for tenths of pennies of the dollar as excess, only to replaced each and every fiscal year. That is just for SOCCENT. Christ knows where else that lies, “justifying” their budget. While operators were bargaining for 9mm ammunition in Afghanistan at the peak of the war with signal units.

    As for “legalization of drugs”, really, I don’t give a crap about grass being legal. I’m highly allergic to the smoke, but let’s face it.
    People high on grass aren’t aggressive.
    Drive while high or drunk, meet the same penalties.

    As for illegal aliens, want to bankrupt the nation? Chase maybe ten million illegal aliens, hell, let’s make it twenty million.
    Remove fruit, grain, corn pickers at below minimum wage.
    Replace them with minimum wage, good luck finding such workers, remove the landscapers and grass cutters at pennies on the dollar.
    I’ve faced that myself, caring for my father while he slowly died of dementia, knowing that illegals cut my grass for $20 biweekly.
    Reality has to meet the road. We *rely* upon illegal workers.
    Remove them, the *entire* bottom of our economy goes away and we pay minimum wage to cut a middle class lawn.

    In the real world, it ain’t happening.
    Or an economic collapse occurs.

    Politicians play their games to make office, paid for with billion dollar campaigns.
    That that nonsense is accepted makes this veteran sorry that he defended this insanity and worse, sorry that he screwed up and returned home to take care of a dying father and got trapped CONUS of a highly remunerative job overseas, to return to the land of the hijacked.

    Left wing idiots proclaim Koch is the X of Y.
    The reality is, Z screws over the majority, via unfettered campaign bribes, excuse me, contributions.
    So, dies a nation.

    This happened while I was away protecting this nation, can you that stayed at home as home guard kindly fix it?
    Because, each and every day, my physical pain, due to the services conducted to protect you builds and either I go to the VA for “treatment” via narcotics or some buddy with out a side does.
    Each and every day, I consider putting a barrel into my mouth.

    Unlike you, I never learned how to quit.
    How did you learn how to quit and find the short path to pleasure via idiocy in office?!

    For the TL;DR crowd, I only consider you a craven coward, unworthy of survival, along with your entire extended family, when the SHTF.
    Consider the above note of not wearing decorations.
    I’m only embarrassed to have to say that.
    But, too many people bought the PR efforts, ignoring their own welfare.

    1. And in many cases too big to fail has become too bigger to fail.

      No Wzrd, paying legal workers, migrant or American, won’t bankrupt the nation. That’s the way it worked for a very long time. The economic damage from allowing millions here undercutting our own poor and depending on the taxpayers for their social services will at least equal the higher cost of lettuce and tomatoes and the installation of dry wall.

      We will not suffer an economic collapse because we control our borders. The net will be to the American working poor’s advantage

      I pay $75 for, at most, a 21/2 hour job when my lawn is cut. That’s a lot more than minimum wage. I haven’t seen an illegal cutting yards here in at least 6 or 7 years. That doesn’t mean there might not be several still working but the lawn service here is back to being almost all locals. I could have the full weed eat for $100 but I do that myself and just pay the $70. This is not an affluent area. We are not facing financial ruin over this. Once things adjusted back no one notices anymore.

      To make your point In the 2013-14 election cycle I believe the Koch Brothers ranked about number 30 in contributions.

      Unfortunately military personnel from general officers, to field grades, to senior NCOs have been implicated occasionally as well in fraud and abuse. I wish it weren’t so. I wish soldiers were the ones that always blew the whistle.

      I appreciate what you did and I’m sorry for the damage done to your body carrying the cudgel for America in a foreign war but your assumption that anyone that disagrees with you never put anything at risk for the Republic is mistaken.

      Best

  7. why would you ban any firearms that are legally taxed under a class 3 ,,,*** Damian, where did I say that I would? You must have me confused with slick the moron.

  8. Although that sounds so simple, it isn’t,******** Yes it is that simple. If there is not control at the border there is no immigration policy and they come here because of a ” minimum wage”…… These people don’t make 2$ a day. They understand that even if they don’t make $7/hr. they make close to it, and it’s damn well better than $2/day and living under a corrugated tin roof. I think for all the liberal moron states that want to raise minimum wage to $15, every border state should put every illegal on a bus and ship them there…..you people are f’k’g out of you minds…… that’s giving you a benefit of the doubt that you even have a mind.

  9. . A wall, or mass deportation isn’t going to “win” it. ***** Every immigration law starts with controlling the border. Without control of the border, every thing else, deciding who gets deported and who stays, issuance of temporary work visas, orderly processing of citizenship……all goes in the crapper. This is a just a fact. And anyone that says otherwise is just pissing in your ear.

    1. Is that what black people do? Expound..

      Our women? Who’s that? Sometimes your relentless smugness makes you look silly

      They come here for jobs and, contrary to leftist boiler plate, they are jobs that Americans, black and white, will do for the most part. The presence of illegal labor hurts the least skilled disproportionately.

      Cordially

  10. As I said, the “healthy” food they won’t eat and you probably can’t make them eat without depriving them of nutrition for a while, which might not be a bad idea either.

    Admittedly without thinking through all the implications Subway sounds like a reasonable idea.

    Cordially

  11. Just trying to help keep your economy going. You’re welcome!**** At least everyone knows what you are.. Another fudge packing liberal…..I should have seen that ” Cumming “

    1. Next you’re going to tell me that people don’t pick up the dog poop on your lawn!

      Man you sure can dig that hole, can’t you. Now you’ve got everyone coming to Austin is a gay communist?!?!

    2. As seen on the T-shirts ” Steers and Queers. No where but Austin” , just “Keepin’ Austin Weird ” I don’t need it.

  12. Sure I would – But just so we’re clear, give me several examples of giving your life for the Constitution.****** No you wouldn’t. I took my physical and failed. This isn’t about me numbnuts. It’s about you. You’re a freak show.

    1. Sorry I wasn’t clear. I didn’t mean you personally, I just meant give me several examples of how a person gives their life for the Constitution.

  13. +++ But you’d never give your life in the defense of the Constitution… you inscrutable turd. +++

    Sure I would – But just so we’re clear, give me several examples of giving your life for the Constitution.

  14. As for guns – if there was an Australian style gun law, I’d probably have to give up one gun. No problem****** But you’d never give your life in the defense of the Constitution… you inscrutable turd.

  15. c: Sounds like he’s a government official since that’s what police officers are. You can justify whatever he’s doing on that basis since you were quick to defend the federal agencies for what was nothing short of mass murder and many were innocents.

    Hey, a blunder here, a blunder there but you’re an extremist and a threat to domestic tranquility if you are so foolish as to express a healthy suspicion of the government or it’s agents. Right? The man is a government official if he’s a police officer and ATF were government agents (plus ultimately a number of other agencies) acting on behalf of the government. A bit of suspicion is entirely appropriate.

    Cordially

  16. You seem quite consumed with the slavery thing that ended here one and one-half centuries ago. Why are you fine with bringing large numbers of people here whose culture both embraces and practices it. Black chattel slavery is widespread all over Africa but since it’s frequently black Coptic Christians enslaved by Muslims no body cares about those poor people. Not much political leverage in that is there?*****As Booker T. Washington pointed out, “There is another class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the black race before the public. They have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs, partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want blacks to lose his grievances, because they do do not want to lose their jobs.”

  17. As an example, last year in deep blue Oregon referendum on whether to grant illegals driver’s licenses was put before the voters and the result was no. That is no license without legal status and the margin was something like 2:1. Against. That’s Oregon.****** After living in the state of Oregon for a decade, for those nitwit legislators to come to that conclusion is monumental!

  18. I certainly do not know everything. Certainty is a quality of the righteous right. I do have a fairly good understanding of things, however.****** You’re a moron. You oozed out of the shallow end of the gene pool. My suggestion is, you slither back in a disappear.

  19. Martin, I’m done with the loser. As by this time everyone is wondering who’s the nut job. The guy talking him off the ledge, or the guy jumping….. He’s a waste of space and time. Aim small~ miss small….. Catch you down the country road.

  20. Tom- I was agreeing with you- I have agreed with you 100% throughout this blog. CS is a moronic waste of air. He KNOWS everything about EVERYTHING. Just ask him. He doesn’t understand the consequences of his beliefs one iota. And continues to refute everything you are trying to teach him with bogus facts, figures, and imbicillic interpretations of historical data and facts. The fact that he and his friends are too good to do an honest day’s work for an honest day’s pay speaks to his intentions that people instilled with a true work ethic should support him and his friends. I leave knowing that should the edict come down to turn in guns, he will hand his over with out a whimper. I’ll lose no sleep over it. So long guys

    1. I certainly do not know everything. Certainty is a quality of the righteous right. I do have a fairly good understanding of things, however. And one thing I do know is that nothing is as simple as you’d like it to be. There are nuances. Nothing I talk about is all that unique, or odd, or uncommon, or even controversial (school lunches! Come on!). It’s sad that it’s so alien to you and your wrestling partner.

      As for guns – if there was an Australian style gun law, I’d probably have to give up one gun. No problem. I doubt it would have any effect on home defense. it would however cut down on my ability to mow down a bunch of people in a church or sikh temple.

    2. c: Schools lunches aren’t the least bit controversial. The controversial part is trying to force, unsuccessfully for the most part, school children to eat things they don’t want to eat and may not, in some cases even be appropriate for little people growing rapidly. Will you force feed them when they refuse to eat what you want them too.

      School lunches aren’t controversial but making the government school system surrogate parents might be, at least to some people.

      Cordially

    3. It makes no sense to serve junk food to kids in school.

      As for schools being surrogate parents – I’m not sure that’s even an issue, except among mostly Christian home schoolers. Fact is, education takes time and kids get hungry. If a school giving kids lunch is surrogate parenting, then what are cafeterias at most large and even small companies? I think it’s called efficiency and convenience. Some might even call it a perk.

      I am curious – what are the healthy foods that aren’t appropriate for young growing kids? I haven’t heard about this problem.

  21. When people accuse someone of being racist, you’ll often hear them say – Hey I’m not racist, some of my good friends are black!

    Substitute crazy for black….Get it now? Funny stuff.
    You guys would make a great tag team wrestling team. Well not great.******** Did your ” flux capacitor’ just sht the sheets? why not just take you marbles and go home. You proven beyond a shadow of a doubt the magnitude of you derangement…..adios Scooter……been real, not really.

  22. Austin – that’s great! I’ve been there many, many times. ******* Don’t come back….and no I din’t miss your ” little joke”. You are a little joke. The fact that you can vote is a joke, albeit a bad joke.

    1. I know you’d like to get a Gestapo going, but until you do, I’ll be in Austin every year. But don’t worry – the chance of us running into each other isn’t that good. I hang out with people who like to have fun.

    2. I know you’d like to get a Gestapo going, but until you do, I’ll be in Austin every year. But don’t worry – the chance of us running into each other isn’t that good. I hang out with people who like to have fun.****** no doubt, you’re another 6th st. ck’sck’r’!

  23. Tom, I’m guessing you live in a small town of 500 in the year 1855.******* I live in Austin Texas and understand the damage the morons like you do to their local government, states and eventually the entire country. You’re a scourge, Scooter.

    1. Austin – that’s great! I’ve been there many, many times. Do you play guitar? I’m trying to find one redeeming quality you may have.

      I suppose you missed my little joke –

      I’m guessing you live in a small town of 500 in the year 1855.

      I wasn’t far off – Austin’s population in 1855 was just a few thousand.
      Point is – you live in a fantasy – In a world that doesn’t exist – thank the lord.

  24. I could post a list of companies that have been busted for doing just that. ****** So it is of you’re opinion that it’s the responsibility of business to investigate if the documents they receive are counterfeit?

    1. What I said was (it seems you don’t actually read before you post):

      Q: Are you telling me that companies don’t knowingly hire illegals?

      Q: Are you telling me that individuals don’t knowingly hire illegals?

      I could post a list of companies that have been busted for doing just that. And it would be the tip of the iceberg. As for individuals – way too common to even address.

      And as for as getting false docs?
      Why bother doing it yourself when companies like Tyson will do it for you.

      So, perhaps you could answer the questions and perhaps comment on Tyson.

    2. Not any more will you get Tyson to do it for you c, and jobs at Tyson may not be the best but if you think no Americans will work for what Tyson pays you are indulging in one of your misconceptions.

      Cordially

    3. +++ jobs at Tyson may not be the best +++

      Well, there’s an understatement.

      Tyson is just the tip of the ICEberg. And they happened to get caught.
      Business wants cheap labor and they will do most anything to get it.

      Heck, you could go over to FAIR – one of your people’s groups – and look at how they rage against business hiring illegals. They themselves say that if business stops hiring illegals, then the flow subsides. And they have numerous examples of investigations and prosecutions. And it’s just a tiny sample. Fact is, from IBM to some roofing guy, everyone wants cheap labor and they know how to get it – regardless of what the law says. I know it makes you sad to find out that Obama isn’t leading Mexicans across the border personally – and even sadder to know that it’s your sacred American companies that are providing the incentive. And no wall is going to stop that.

    4. No what I said was Americans, white and black will work for what Tyson pays and you said they wouldn’t You’re wrong.
      .
      They just finished putting a roof on my house Wednesday. All locals all legal. You try desperately to paint this as unwinnable and unchangeable and it isn’t.

      The point I’ve made repeatedly is that the political will exists to make some real changes and it does. You ignore it and say the companies simply can’t be stopped from doing it. Of course they can if you just mean something effective.

      You want the flow of unskilled Hispanic labor because you think it wins the culture war for you, at least eventually. It punishes your countrymen with the fewest skills. You refuse to address what the US with no borders will look like in ten years and it’s mental masturbation at it’s best when you tell yourself you’ll somehow be better off.

      I know at least as much about US corporations as you do, the good and the bad.

      Cordially

    5. ++++ They just finished putting a roof on my house Wednesday. All locals all legal. You try desperately to paint this as unwinnable and unchangeable and it isn’t.

      The point I’ve made repeatedly is that the political will exists to make some real changes and it does. You ignore it and say the companies simply can’t be stopped from doing it. Of course they can if you just mean something effective. ++++

      I don’t think it’s unwinnable – I just think the problem is driven by different forces than you do. A wall, or mass deportation isn’t going to “win” it. And you see, talk of things such as these is you waging a culture war, not me. Because the culture of which you speak predates our culture in much of our geographical locations.

      As for Tyson – I’m sure the increased scrutiny has caused some changes there. But you grossly underestimate the complicity of business in this problem – not to mention what I think is mostly ignorance and indifference on the part of individuals who hire illegals in the millions, as well as enjoy the fruits of their labor, both literally and figuratively.

    6. We don’t need mass deportations. Walls and fences will only be useful in certain places and then only when they are monitored and maintained. When there jobs available are limited the problem will become entirely manageable.People come here from the South for what isn’t available in the countries whose economies you seem to want emulate. We had effective control of the border with Mexico for well over 100 years. Any insistence it can’t be done now serves some other purpose.

      Maintaining our borders for the benefit of the country and it’s citizens isn’t any form of culture war. Reading all your other posts, there is no way you don’t understand that. After all these exchanges I think it’s what your goal is because the social order will be changed to something you find more acceptable. It will be to the detriment of those already here. No country survives without borders and acquiescence in the demolition of ours is the actual culture war.

      That the Spanish and the Portuguese were settling in South and Central America well over a century before the English arrived in what would become the US has nothing to do with anything. It’s irrelevant. You don’t owe the guy down the street a damn thing because he was in the neighborhood first.

      That you think this “culture” is superior, or at least you appear to be trying to make that argument, and should displace the existing one speaks for itself. Even at it’s worst racial and ethnic strife in the US has been much better than almost any of the places from which we are being effectively invaded.

      As just one example, the Mexican government was still selling Yaqui Indians into slavery well into the 1900s. Mexico didn’t allow slavery you say? They banned legal slavery before the Mexican war then did what they damn well pleased. Take your own advice and Google it. It pops right up along with a wealth of other stuff about how truly ugly the racial strife has been in most of the Central American countries as well as Mexico and much of South America as well.

      Regardless of who started what when and where, resistance on the part of US citizens to having our borders ignored to our detriment isn’t a culture war. Being an advocate for social change in the US by virtue of an unimpeded flow of needy people from other countries most certainly is.

      Do the governments of these countries bear any responsibility? They are with the rarest of exceptions venal in the extreme. Most of them make New Orleans look like an example of good governance. What do the citizens of the US owe them? Why?

      One of the two would be terrorist killed in a Garland, Texas attack earlier this year had purchased a 9mm pistol “through a botched federal firearm sting.” The dead would be, Nadir Soofi, purchased the pistol at one of the gun shops the feds were using for Operation Fast and Furious.

      Apparently he was allowed to buy the firearm after it was denied on the initial background check. It looks like this was just a mistake that occurred because they were allowing prohibited purchases to go through on a large scale to get them into Mexico. I don’t think anyone is saying there was a deliberate effort to arm jihadis. The feds again. That healthy suspicion perhaps?

      The cartels have their own helicopters, mortars, real RPGs, crew served machine guns. They have submersible ocean going vessels worth multiple millions each. The assertion that they are armed through US gun stores wasn’t taken seriously by anyone including Eric Holder.

      Cordially .

    7. ++++ We don’t need mass deportations. Walls and fences will only be useful in certain places and then only when they are monitored and maintained. When there jobs available are limited the problem will become entirely manageable. ++++

      See, we’re in agreement!

      But seriously – I don’t think you’ll solve an economic situation with a police solution. And the companies who actively provide jobs, and the people who hire illegals drive the problem. You prefer to understate this. I can only imagine it’s because you don’t like to place blame on business – just government. But really, it’s just capitalism at work. Capitalism knows no borders.

      Nadir Soofi and guns purchased? I’m going to go with coincidence.

      Drug cartels – yeah, again capitalists satisfying consumer demand. It’s an ugly business and someone WILL do it. Stop the demand or legalize the trade. Otherwise, it’s not going away.

    8. Capitalism knows no borders? That’s like saying the English language knows no borders. It’s correct and completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

      Some countries have a framework that works reasonably well in creating opportunity and wealth and others a system that makes it almost impossible, with Venezuela being a good example. Your friend Robert Mugabe is very good at saying what you like to hear about who’s to blame and how to fix it. Periodic famines and cholera epidemics say he’s not very good at actually doing it.

      I have not the slightest hesitation in placing the blame on business. I’m pretty sure it’s already illegal to knowingly hire illegals. The government, for a number of reasons, is recalcitrant in enforcing the existing regulations. There’s more than enough responsibility to be darkly angry at both of them. Illegal labor hurts the poorest Americans the most.

      This problem was effectively controlled for a long time. It’s not uncontrollable now. The political will is present to do just that.

      Mr. Soofi quite likely was a coincidence. A US government program, illegal on both ends, to pump several thousand firearms into Mexico, for the greater good of course, certainly wasn’t a coincidence and that’s what allowed the denial on the purchase to be ignored.

      Given the cartels willingness to use the utmost violence for the slightest of reasons or for no reason at all I’m not sure it works as an example of capitalism. The market parts ok.

      The legalization of drugs wouldn’t come without it’s own set of problems but I’ve arrived at the point that I believe the net would be an improvement over what we have. The “war on drugs” is being used to circumvent Constitutional protections with the 4th, 5th and yes, the 2nd Amendments being the most violated.

      Cordially

  25. Schools are educators , not restaurants. Their charter is to teach, not feed the f’k’g poor, you socialist, Communist, Marxist, mtr’fkr or what ever hybrid ck’suker you pretend to be.You’re ignorant and depraved, fitting the M.O. of about half the population of the U.S. that believes they’re owed something. No one owes you a GD thing. Deal with it!

    1. Tom, I’m guessing you live in a small town of 500 in the year 1855.
      It must be nice, but I’d suggest you wake up and smell the 2015.

  26. The reality is that there is a never ending and often growing desire for low-income workers. American companies and consumers demand it. It is illegal for companies and individuals to hire undocumented workers – illegal immigrants, if you will.****** Every legitimate business in the U.S. files I-9’s and all paper work on foreign workers. Are you telling the class that it’s the responsibility of the companies and business owners to investigate the legitimacy of said workers credentials? I can go on the internet tonight and for the right amount of money procure all the counterfeit paper work needed for illegals to become employed. Do you live in some cosmic rabbit hole, Alice?

    1. Are you telling me that companies don’t knowingly hire illegals? That’s laughable. Are you telling me that individuals don’t knowingly hire illegals? Also laughable.

      I could post a list of companies that have been busted for doing just that. And it would be the tip of the iceberg. As for individuals – way too common to even address.

      And as for as getting false docs? Why bother doing it yourself when companies like Tyson will do it for you.

      You’re truly in a hole, Tom and it ain’t a rabbit hole. Pull your head out and learn a thing or two.!

  27. Of course that’s fine – it’s just impractical for many – especially in urban areas.***** Any f’k’g excuse will do when you’re looking for one. You simply have all the answers, Slick.

    1. Excuse? For what? Schools serve food. Been doing it since I was in first grade. So…. serve good food. Don’t serve junk. Why is this even controversial?

    2. You make it sound like there are only 2 choices – a spinach and tofu sandwich or the candy rack at 7/11.

      Fact is, they could put a Subway in most schools and that would be a vast improvement.

      And what’s this healthy food that is inappropriate for growing kids?

  28. and one way to be responsible is for parents to demand their schools serve only healthy foods****** How about they just make’em lunch…

    1. +++ How about they just make’em lunch… +++

      Of course that’s fine – it’s just impractical for many – especially in urban areas. There’s nothing wrong with schools serving food – it just shouldn’t be junk food. It makes no sense.

  29. because you’d be too ashamed to actually say publicly why you didn’t like him……. How about the history book that says that Democrats controlled both houses of Congress for 56 of the past 80 years ( 70% of the time for the mathematically challenged,and 44 consecutive during FDR’s reign) , with Super Majority status in no less than fourteen of those years, Democrats gave use the PROGRESSIVE programs of the Square Deal, FDR’s New Deal and the welfare-state policies of the 1930s and ’40s ( thanks Elenore), Truman’s Fair Deal, LBJ’s Great Society including Medicare/Medicaid, SS. Democrats ‘institutionalized’ poor people, sedating them for more than a generation , leaving them with no skills what so ever or any incentive to gain any. Social entitlement programs now consumes 65% of the annual budget, While Democrats continue to ignore the economical suicide to protect and guarantee their reelection?! How could it be that Democrats had almost sixty years of virtually unbroken power in Congress , with substantial majorities most of the time come up with a single policy that worked and isn’t bankrupting the country, HUH ? And now Obama and congressional Democrats rammed through Obamacare, the third leg of the FDR, LBJ, welfare trilogy. Yeah, it’s all good….

  30. He was not a racist…….************Yeah, it is more complicated, beyond the internment of Japanese Americans,FDR defied black leaders and his own wife by refusing his support of anti-lynching laws….Funny how liberals are willing to over look items of history that reflect poorly on them.

    1. Northern liberals proposed the anti-lynching legislation. Southerners, both R’s and D’s opposed it. Why do you suppose that is? Oh I know – states rights!

      Roosevelt was in a pickle. He didn’t “defy” anyone. He was quite clear –

      “I did not choose the tools with which I must work,” he explained. “Had I been permitted to choose them I would have selected quite different ones. But I’ve got to get legislation passed by Congress to save America. The Southerners… occupy strategic places on most of the Senate and House committees. If I come out for the antilynching bill now, they will block every bill I ask Congress to pass to keep America from collapsing. I just can’t take that risk.”

      Now, I know you’re no fan of Roosevelt. But it’s disingenuous when you try to denigrate the man as a racist, which he wasn’t, because you’d be too ashamed to actually say publicly why you didn’t like him. Are we to believe that your sympathies lie with the “coloreds” of the south? Or the Jews of Europe? Let’s cut through the BS and both agree that the answer is no. The problem here is simply that you hate FDR and that you, like other fundie- conservatives will cloak your hatred in whatever way you can to make it appear to be socially acceptable. It’s pretty funny that you think you fool people. FYI – this “false outrage” is from the Fox News 101 playbook. So I guess it does fool some people – people like you who actually buy it.

      Liberals don’t overlook history. We had to sadly accept that this was, and in many cases still is, the reality which has to be dealt with. FDR’s decision doesn’t reflect badly on liberals – it reflects badly on the Southerners at the time who made it necessary to have to make this compromise. This is still going on today in many areas of lawmaking.

    2. c; The political left as presently constituted ranks with anyone for bigotry and hatred. In unmitigated intolerance they excel.

      The group of Americans least skilled are being devastated by a torrent of the unskilled entering the country legally and illegally and you cooperate and approve because you see, at some point, you think you will be able to cobble together a political coalition that will take from those you want punished and create your proper social order.
      You guys take a back seat to nobody on holding dark animus and intolerance.

      Incidentally, about your lynchings, the resurgence of the Klan in the early 1900s was primarily in the Midwest.

      Cordially

    3. Talk about platitudes – I thought that was my area!

      ++++The political left as presently constituted ranks with anyone for bigotry and hatred. In unmitigated intolerance they excel.++++

      This ability of conservatives to say the opposite of what is true, known and documented is astounding. Truly an art form. You could probably just google this stuff if you needed more accurate info.

      ++++The group of Americans least skilled are being devastated by a torrent of the unskilled entering the country legally and illegally and you cooperate and approve because you see, at some point, you think you will be able to cobble together a political coalition that will take from those you want punished and create your proper social order.
      You guys take a back seat to nobody on holding dark animus and intolerance.++++

      The reality is that there is a never ending and often growing desire for low-income workers. American companies and consumers demand it. It is illegal for companies and individuals to hire undocumented workers – illegal immigrants, if you will. They do it anyway. The conservative political policy wonk stuff you say is all well and good, and plays well on the news, but it’s not the ugly reality. Companies refuse to stop hiring illegals, as do individuals and consumers want their cheap stuff. I could see why you ignore it – it’s capitalism at it’s less than finest.

      Let’s take it to the personal anecdote level for a moment – BK, don’t you know companies and individuals that do this illegal hiring? I certainly do. I could probably show you 100 examples in 30 minutes or less.

      The irony of all this is that really, the only people who really make a stink about this are white dudes who feel disenfranchised (and feel like the US is becoming too brown) – and who would never do the jobs these people do anyway. You don’t see a big deal made of it from corporate America nor do you see much about it from the rich (other than Trump’s pandering) because most of them have 10 of them in their employ. Reality BK, reality.

      +++ Incidentally, about your lynchings, the resurgence of the Klan in the early 1900s was primarily in the Midwest. +++

      I’m guessing they were already at full employment in the South?

    4. No, again. You’ve admitted the problem for American workers then insist it’s because we “demand” it. No, again still, the will among the electorate at large is decidedly in favor of making substantive changes and all the polls show that.

      As an example, last year in deep blue Oregon referendum on whether to grant illegals driver’s licenses was put before the voters and the result was no. That is no license without legal status and the margin was something like 2:1. Against. That’s Oregon.The will and the means are at hand.

      You want this torrent of illegals because you believe they are your allies in a culture war against me. You are very foolish unless you like the grinding endemic poverty that represents much of Mexico. There lives the true have and have not society and it won’t be your friend no matter how satisfying it may be to fantasize about indulging your childish and dark personal animus.

      You are mistaken, the folks most damaged are disproportionately not
      “white dudes” and the cliche that nobody will do those jobs is more false than true. The illegals are overwhelmingly wards of the state. You say they can’t be but the reality is they are.

      About ten years ago my state began a vigorous prosecution of companies hiring illegals and the number here has been drastically reduced and I mean drastically in it’s correct definition. You are correct that small numbers working off the books for small companies, at least for short periods, is virtually impossible to stop but that’s not what we are talking about.

      I’m not afraid of brown. I am afraid of being some combination of Mexico, El Salvador and Guatemala and anyone already here, including those here illegally, that doesn’t fear it is a special kind of ignorant. That includes you, despite your smug belief that you will somehow benefit.

      Whatever I might Google can “prove” whatever I want it to as you know very well.

      Couldn’t say but the folks in Michigan, Indiana, Ohio and elsewhere seem to have become proficient.

      You seem quite consumed with the slavery thing that ended here one and one-half centuries ago. Why are you fine with bringing large numbers of people here whose culture both embraces and practices it. Black chattel slavery is widespread all over Africa but since it’s frequently black Coptic Christians enslaved by Muslims no body cares about those poor people. Not much political leverage in that is there?

      Slavery, illegal and defacto, is common all over Africa, the Middle East and not that rare in Asia Right now, this instant.

      Every decade or so pockets of slavery, illegal but very real, are found in Brazil the slave capitol of the hemisphere. Wag your finger at them and observe the response.

      Cordially

    5. +++ the will among the electorate at large is decidedly in favor of making substantive changes and all the polls show that. +++

      I would be with the majority on this. You are conflating what I’ve said about the reality of the situation with what I believe.

      +++ You want this torrent of illegals because you believe they are your allies in a culture war against me. You are very foolish unless you like the grinding endemic poverty that represents much of Mexico. There lives the true have and have not society and it won’t be your friend no matter how satisfying it may be to fantasize about indulging your childish and dark personal animus.+++

      See, I’m not, nor is “my side” having engaging in a culture war with you or your side. You guys are waging the culture war, all by yourselves. We’re just trying to learn from the past, living in the present, moving into the future.

      +++ You are mistaken, the folks most damaged are disproportionately not
      “white dudes” and the cliche that nobody will do those jobs is more false than true. The illegals are overwhelmingly wards of the state. You say they can’t be but the reality is they are. ++++

      I didn’t say this – and the distinction is important. I didn’t say “White dudes” are the most damaged, I said they’re the ones who “feel” disenfranchised” and do most of the complaining. They’re not damaged at all really. Because they won’t do the work illegals do, and that’s a fact. That’s just right wing myth, of which there are many in this debate (social services, taxes, etc).

      Slavery still exists in the US. It’s been repackaged. Regardless, the people who are coming here from countries which may or may not have de facto slavery are not the problem, when it comes to the immigration debate, and you know that. It’s Hispanics. And they are not the “hostiles” of which we have spoken.

      And once again, it is driven by American desire for low wage labor. I don’t know what state you’re in, so I can’t speak about the prosecution of companies hiring illegals, but nationwide, and especially in the Southwest, whatever you’re talking about doesn’t exist.

    6. Repackaged as what? The assertion that we are practicing some sort of slavery here shows such estrangement from reality that you’re either trolling this or you’re irrational. Millions fight to escape their native countries to be enslaved in the US. That’s what you said. Even people on your side would grimace at that.

      I didn’t say white dudes were the ones most damaged. Read it again. I said they weren’t. The point being the poorest and the least skilled Americans (and already present illegals) are the ones most damaged because that’s what we are being overwhelmed by. People with few skills and many needs.

      The “refugees” from the Middle East and Africa, especially from Somalia represent more than sufficient numbers to cause alarm. As I said before they forcibly placed 2,000 of them in a nearby city of less than 50,000. Kerry talks of taking 100,000 more from the ME.

      They are all wards of the state. So far as I can determine the Somali’s do nothing, at least above the board. They simply exist , antagonize the locals with their contempt and get their sustenance in all it’s forms from the benevolent US taxpayer. There are 160,000 of them in Minnesota.

      As I pointed out in another post the jobs, at Tyson for example, may not be the best but when you say white people won’t do them you are dead wrong and so will black Americans. They now have to compete with illegals whose education health care and social services are provided by…..taxpayers. Deny that happens all you want. It’s leftist boiler plate and willfully dishonest.

      Day laborers in my area can earn 10-12 dollars per hour and those with some skills, say basic carpentry, 15 and perhaps a bit more. This has risen about 30% since the departure of the majority of the illegals some 6-8 years ago. There are plenty of honest small operators who won’t use them and a few that will always try. If the aren’t here in numbers they can’t be used to drive down the earning power of the most vulnerable Americans.

      We are probably the only country in the world that has a constant debate about whether to have borders or not. No mature welfare state, and we are, will survive open borders and I’ll bet you see that too. Despite what you think, ultimately, you won’t like it any better than I do.

      You’re waging a relentless culture war to force the future to look like you think it should. That’s different than moving there.

      Cordially

  31. Question Scooter; you claim to own firearms. Color me curious. What flavor do you own….. Grand Dad’s old Side-by-side and an old bolt action .22? How many of God’s creatures have you slain in your life? Remember, lying buys you a ticket to Hell just like stealing..” Inquiring minds want to know”..

    1. Without getting too specific – 2 handguns (one semi, one revolver) and a shotgun.

      I killed a couple of small animals when I was a kid – one with a .22 rifle and one with a bb gun. I didn’t like it. Nothing since then. I do go to the shooting range once or twice a year and shoot a few different types of guns – just to stay in shape for the end of times.

  32. In Turley’s case, he just quacks like a duck some of the time. He doesn’t at all walk like a duck. I guess he looks like a duck….******* Says you..

    +++Have you ever been institutionalized?++++

    No, but some of my good friends are crazy.****** How the f’k would you know?

    1. ++++No, but some of my good friends are crazy.****** How the f’k would you know?

      Tom- He would know some his close friends are crazy because they agree with his BS.++++

      Maybe you guys were trying to make jokes after I made one – if so, mine is better.

      But I’m guessing you didn’t even get mine – I’ll explain:

      When people accuse someone of being racist, you’ll often hear them say – Hey I’m not racist, some of my good friends are black!

      Substitute crazy for black….Get it now? Funny stuff.
      You guys would make a great tag team wrestling team. Well not great.

  33. funny you mention that. I think it’s truly stupid that we serve processed food and soft drinks in public schools.****** Yeah, I think that parents should be held responsible for feeding their kids. i never ate cafeteria food until I was in high school. Then it was my decision because I didn’t bring anything or didn’t want to use my own money to go some where….choices!

    1. +++ Yeah, I think that parents should be held responsible for feeding their kids +++

      I agree – and one way to be responsible is for parents to demand their schools serve only healthy foods.

  34. A bit simple and not exactly accurate ******No, it’s exact. The definition need not entail any other details. Simple and accurate, like most things, Things that humans, especially your breed, mange to render useless.

  35. Roosevelt a claimed aiding the Brits and allies fighting against Germany would make actual U.S boots on the ground unnecessary. After which he was extremely reluctant to receive Jewish refugees pouring out of Europe. FDR was a Socialist Elite, a politician, and a racist. If not for Pearl Harbor he would have not relented to get the country involved. That’s simply the history, Scooter. There’s nothing revisionist about it.

    1. As usual, it’s a bit more complex than most conservatives like to consider. Some on the left called him a fascist – some on the right a communist.
      Some Jews said he didn’t do enough, some said he did what he could, some anti-semites said he did too much. Some blacks said he was the greatest President ever for minorities, some said he was indifferent. Most Japanese would be disappointed in his decision to intern them. Some hawks lambasted him for not getting into the war sooner.

      My take? He was not a racist. The internment, although lobbied for by the military, was still an odd decision. He did what he could do for the Jews in the political climate of the day – which was much more than our European allies did. As for the blacks – well, he did more for equality than any president in history, and that includes everybody. But he did it without losing the votes he needed to do it. After all, he was a brilliant politician, and he knew exactly how he needed to get things done. He placated conservative Democrats, i.e. racists, by not overtly favoring or specifically targeting programs and by giving them some of what they wanted.

      Fast forward to LBJ, who did not placate the conservative Democrats nearly as effectively – well, they’re all Republicans now. And even though it’s cost the Dems the House several times over the years – well, you can have them.

  36. Turley is a libertarian. Many libertarians are “socially liberal”. It does not make them a liberal – it just makes them sound reasonable for a short period of time.***** So if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it’s not a duck……. Yep, you’re a Leftist Loon….. Next you’ll be telling us that North Korea had the only true and just form of socialism or that maybe Kim Jong ” ILL” is a benevolent dictator.

    Have you ever been institutionalized?

    1. In Turley’s case, he just quacks like a duck some of the time. He doesn’t at all walk like a duck. I guess he looks like a duck….

      +++Have you ever been institutionalized?++++

      No, but some of my good friends are crazy.

  37. Hey! That’s not my generation! If it were up to me, selfie sticks would be banned along with most military style weapons.****** What else would you ban, 64 oz. sodas? Is this Michael Bloomberg? Mayor is that you?

    1. Haha – funny you mention that. I think it’s truly stupid that we serve processed food and soft drinks in public schools. It’s just a bad policy. Locally grown and packaged healthy food, i say!

    2. @ TOM,
      why would you ban any firearms that are legally taxed under a class 3 license and tax stamp at all? As for military type or style weapons as you call so called put them as a former cavalry scout sniper for the US ARMY i know for a fact what you buy in a gun store or at a gun show is nothing near or compares even closely to military issue weapons used by the military just because it kinda looks like a military rifle DOES NOT MAKE IT SUCH ,and if you get a class 3 tax stamp and keep it all legal WE CAN OWN WTF WE PLEASE in America up to and including belt fed full auto weapons that is the right we have as law abiding American citizens get over it you liberal idiots please .
      @ slicker , DO YOU EVER QUIT BABBLING NONSENSE MAN or is it a hobby of you’res to constantly ramble like a moronic idiot who has no clue what living in a facists ,communist or socialists society run fully by the governments of them countries or a dictator STFU man tired of watching you babble on and on and on about nothing that matters both you n Tom need to move to russia or china or north korea and see how those people live under such rule.NOW PLEASE STFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!.damn man. Annoying as hell you are dude.

    3. About the only thing that makes any sense in your post is that yes, from your perspective, Tom would look like a liberal.

      Damian, I don’t think anyone is forcing you to read this discussion.

  38. I’m quite aware of the industrialist’s business relationship with Hitler. The point that sailed over your dunce cap, is that Roosevelt was a world leader serving a parallel leader ship with Hitler and ignored, or dismissed what was obvious and taking place right under his nose, as thousands of Jews sought asylum.

    1. This is some odd revisionist history. FDR was at the forefront of trying to get Jews settled. And this was well before the Nazis had even started killing any. Do you realize how strong ant-semiticism was in both Europe and the US? Pretty much NO European countries would take Jews. The US, with FDR spearheading it, took more than any. But many here in the US weren’t happy about it either.

      Do you understand that many leading industrialists were doing big business with the Nazis and were anti-Semite themselves?

      As for later, once the war started and so did the exterminations – it is believed FDR’s idea was to end the war as quickly as possible and this would stop the killing. For this, he has been criticized. It is doubtful that outsiders knew the true numbers, Most of the Jews killed at this point weren’t German, but from other countries. FDR was very sensitive to US casualties and it’s likely that his waiting for the Russians to come from the east before invading resulted in many more Jews dying. I guess it was one or the other.

  39. They never overlap! Using collectivism as your criterion is the weakest of links. If that’s all it takes, capitalists are communists. Like minded voters are communists. Your bridge club is communist. We’re all communists.******* capitalism is not even an ” ism “. It’s simply the freedom of one person transacting with another. The Left exploits capitalism defining it as a dangerous tool, like a machine gun or a chainsaw , used against the welfare of mankind, and to justify greater government economic controls. I regard the prospects of global capitalism as the best opportunity for relieving human misery the world has ever seen.
    You’re a strange duck, slick.

    1. ism: used as a productive suffix in the formation of nouns denoting action or practice, state or condition, principles, doctrines, a usage or characteristic, devotion or adherence, etc.

      +++It’s simply the freedom of one person transacting with another.+++ A bit simple and not exactly accurate but even so – the ism works in that you’ve described an action or practice.

      ++++ I regard the prospects of global capitalism as the best opportunity for relieving human misery the world has ever seen.++++

      I regards the prospects of global capitalism, guided by smart government, rules and regulations, as the best opportunity for relieving human misery the world has ever seen.

      Lookee! We’re almost saying the same thing!

  40. Corporatism/Fascism/Communism simply fill in the void, left by failed socialism or any other “collectivism”. The early years of capitalism marked the first time in the history of mankind when the poor ever had a chance to survive, never mind thrive.

  41. Come on Tom, seriously. It was the Fords and the Duponts, etal. who were cozy with Hitler. Not FDR*******Roosevelt’s entire presidency unfolded along side Hitler’s tyrannical reign. While FDR was busy giving away the store, pushing socialist legislation through Congress ( legislation that to day threatens to bankrupt the country), Hitler was busy rounding up, incarcerating, and exterminating millions of Jews!

    1. I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest that there isn’t a strong causal relationship between FDR implementing SS and the extermination of the Jews.

      If you would like a stronger causal relationship, look into the relationships between the Nazis and US corporations. Seriously, look into it. Then you could right a paper on it called, “Fascists? Meet Fascists.” or “How the Jews died and corporate America Got Rich.” Something like that.

    1. Come on Tom, seriously. It was the Fords and the Duponts, etal. who were cozy with Hitler. Not FDR. As matter of fact, the anti-semites of the day (ummm, the Fords and Duponts, etal) hated FDR, because they thought he was a secret Jew. None of this stuff is secret information. In hindsight, it may appear that FDR didn’t do enough, but hindsight is tricky. He did give German Jews the highest immigration priority at the time – and even that was controversial. There was a lot of anti-semitism at that time.

      Oh, hang on a sec – I’m dizzy from deja-vu.

  42. universal background checks, licenses, periodic renewals, etc. There are countries which do this quite successfully.*******When will you and the rest of your moronic idealist friends finally grasp that the only people snared by ” government paper work” are law abiding citizens.
    “During the last year of record, although the government has done millions upon millions of background checks, they [only] brought 14 prosecutions to court for trial–hardly a crime-fighting tool.” He said some people respond to this by pointing out that there were people who were “denied getting a gun at the point of sale,” but these people fail to note that criminals get guns in ways that completely circumvent the checks. “Many mass murders have gotten their hands on guns by passing a background check, while other criminals are resourceful. They are evil, but they are resourceful, as well, and they get their hands on guns. The idea that somehow we’re safe if we do a background check is simply not true.”

    Harris & Keibold (Columbine) & Lanza (SandyHook) were rejected by the background check, yet it wasn’t important to follow up on them. Care to explain that logic to the families of the 41 killed and 26 they injured?

    1. Do something just like this, wait a couple of generations, and your grandkids will thank mine:

      Canada

      The stated intent of Canadian firearms laws is to control firearms to improve public safety. Canadians have seen access to firearms become more restricted, but are still able to purchase them. Rifles and shotguns are relatively easy to obtain, while handguns are much more restricted. Licensing provisions of the Firearms Act endeavours to ensure proper training and safe storage.

      Users must possess a licence, called a “possession and acquisition licence (PAL)”. A firearms safety course must be passed prior to applying for a PAL. A non-resident (i.e., non-Canadian) can have a “non-resident firearms declaration” confirmed by a customs officer, which provides for a temporary 60-day authorization to have a firearm in Canada.[8] There are three categories of firearms for purposes of Canadian law: non-restricted, restricted, and prohibited. Restricted and prohibited weapons may actually be owned and used in limited circumstances.[9]

      In Canada, firearms fall into one of three categories:

      1. Non-Restricted: Long guns with an overall length greater than 26 inches and, if semi-automatic, a barrel which is 18 1/2 inches or longer. These can be possessed with an ordinary PAL, and are the only class of firearms which can be used for hunting, due to the ATT (Authorization to Transport) requirement for Restricted and Prohibited weapons, as well as provincial regulations. This class includes most popular sporting rifles and shotguns.

      2. Restricted: This includes handguns with barrel lengths greater than 4.1 inches (105mm), and long guns which do not meet the length requirements for non-restricted, and are not prohibited. These guns require ATTs, and as such can only be shot at ranges. These arms can be possessed with an RPAL, which is similar to the PAL course, but covers restricted weapons and the increased storage requirements. One must pass the CFSC as well as the RCFSC in order to obtain their RPAL. Examples in this class include all AR-15 variants.

      3. Prohibited: These weapons generally cannot be possessed by civilians. Normally, the only way to possess these is by being grandfathered in or inheriting a pistol with a barrel length at or under 4.1 inches (105mm), in which case the individual may receive the Class 7 endorsement. This class also includes prohibited devices. Many military arms fall under this classification, including all AK variants, and the FN-FAL. All handguns with a barrel length equal to or under 4.1 inches (105mm) are prohibited, as well as those chambered for the .25, and most chambered for the .32 caliber cartridge, presumably to prevent the possession of “Saturday Night Specials”. Also prohibited are fully automatic weapons and suppressors. Magazines for semi automatic long guns capable of holding more than 5 centerfire cartridges or 10 rounds for handguns, are prohibited, with the exception of the M1 Garand.

  43. It’s not that liberals are against freedom. It’s just that they are for some many things that are incompatible with freedom. One might conclude that liberals so believe in freedom as to view it as compulsory.

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