While waiting for the Senate to take up four gun control measures, The Shooter’s Log must sadly report another loss for the Second Amendment. Today, June 20, 2016, the Supreme Court declined to take up a constitutional challenge to a Connecticut gun law passed in the aftermath of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting. The bans affects both semi-automatic firearms and magazines.
In 2008, the Supreme Court ruled in District of Columbia v Heller that the Second Amendment protects an individual’s right to bear arms. Other than a follow-up decision a couple of years later, the court has not had cause to reconsider the matter. Today, the court again refused to take up the matter, instead, letting the lower court’s ruling stand. While it is logical to call this a loss, you could make a case that it is a push or potentially only a temporary setback.
By refusing to weigh in in the case, the lower court’s ruling stands. That is a loss or setback—whatever you want to call it. However, given the makeup of the court, a decision would not have likely been favorable to the pro Second Amendment community. So, this could give us a second bite at the apple with a future court—hopefully a court that does not have new, anti-gun judges appointed to it—but that would require a new lawsuit and challenge. That fact has anti-gun groups coming out very vocal and reveling at the news.
Jonathan Lowy, director of the Legal Action Project at the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence said, “The Supreme Court’s decision to let stand Connecticut’s assault weapons restrictions, is just the latest indication that Courts almost universally recognize that common sense life-saving gun laws are fully compatible with the Second Amendment.
“The fact that Connecticut chose to restrict assault weapons like the ones used in the Orlando and Sandy Hook mass shootings was both reasonable and constitutional.” In court briefs, State Attorney General George Jepsen claimed the law was written to restrict access “to firearms that are owned by a small percentage of gun owners and are disproportionately used in gun crime, particularly the most heinous forms of gun violence.” However, he failed to show any actual numbers to back up that fact that semi-auto long guns or “high capacity” magazines are used disproportionately in furtherance of the majority crime, instead citing statistics from Sandy Hook.
The plaintiffs in Shew v. Malloy, had, of course, hoped the Supreme Court would step in to clarify the Heller decision in our favor. In Scott Wilson Sr., president of the Connecticut Citizens’ Defense League’s statement, he noted that it fully intends “to renew our challenge to Connecticut’s blatantly unconstitutional ban as soon as there are five Justices sitting on the Supreme Court committed to the proper understanding of the Second Amendment.” His chances of success are considered a long shot, but not impossible.
How will this affect your state? Will other states follow in Connecticut’s footsteps? What have you done to ensure the future of the Second Amendment as we know it? Share your responses in the comment section.
[dave]
I don’t understand how any court can make a decision on aesthetics. Black guns with banana magazines are no different than a Ruger 10/22 or a Mossberg Plinkster. Yet one is banned and feared and the other is given to children for Christmas! SCOTUS could have lifted the ban until making a decision (when the court is full). The same is true with the Chicago gun ban by community. What scares me is this move by the court to make decisions based on public sentiment not the rule of law. That will prove more damaging and short sighted and effect the whole population.
>I don’t understand how any court can make a decision on aesthetics.
Doug, While the black-robed Mullahs’ indicate their decision is based on aesthetics, the true basis is their own philosophy and personal political ideology. If not for the aesthetic differences (in this case), they would just fabricate another excuse (as they have done in other gun rights cases). The Mullahs’ basis obviously isn’t the Bill of Rights or U.S. Constitution either, though respect for these documents is their claim. In the end, ink on paper, black-robed Mullahs, and all our other rulers and masters cannot possibly be relied upon to protect the rights of the people (quite the opposite is usually true); it is entirely up to the people to do so!
God Bless You.
The Income Tax was levied to support the CIVIL WAR. Once they get an inch the take everything in sight. If they get control of “assault rifles”, (which is a joke) they’ve got their foot in the door and we get screwed by our own Government. We’ve GOT to be rid of these SOCIALIST idiots parading as American patriots.
I wish I knew what/how to do!
Vote!
Don’t count on the Supreme Court to uphold your right to keep and bear arms. The justices will inevitably defer to the wishes of the national-security branch of the government, especially in the midst of a crisis. Keep in mind a critically important point that Judge Alex Kozinski made in his dissent in Silveira v. Lockyer: A people who permit themselves to be disarmed will make that mistake only once. That’s because once they are disarmed, the government will never permit them to arm themselves again. Freedom is precarious. Oftentimes, it depends on how willing people are to fight for it, including when it’s threatened by their own government. Just remember: It’s a lot more difficult to get freedom back than it is to keep it.
Amen Greg
The case builds for a secession of like minded states. There is increasingly a disconnect between liberal blue states and the majority of the country (area wise). The federal government is the problem and needs to be broken down in its powers. A peaceful secession of conservative states is unlikely but with BREXIT and the possibility of TEXIT ther is a glimmer of hope.
I absolutely agree. We are heading towards a succession, hopefully. These things led to a civil war and we do not want that. But… something must change. I applaud the British in their decision.
I always thought that the second amendment was placed in the bill of rights to protect the republic from totalitarian or monarchy governments. I must have been wrong all these years! I don’t know much English, I guess, “A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” This has been twisted to, the government may make any law it seems fit to prevent the people from bearing arms. If we are so concerned as to the damage that weapons can cause our community why are we not limiting all weapons across the board? Law enforcement should be limited to the same regulations as the citizens? They are citizens too. How can our Supreme Court yield to terrorism and permit the trampling of our rights. I am troubled by all the killings we have been subjected to by terrorist and others but the negation of the second amendment is not the solution.
The most resent tragedy in Orlando Florida was nothing less than fallen casualties of war. Yes casualty of war! We have embarked on a war that has reached our shores and we have to stomach the reality of the situation. We lost more at the World Trade Center but we still fly and build bigger and better buildings. We are a nation that have taken worst foes and have overcome. This nation can overcome this threat without giving in or giving up. Our Bill of Rights is not afraid our Constitution is not afraid.
“Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself”
FDR
The bans in Conn and NY have a 95% non compliance rate.
They pass the laws fast as they can right after a tragedy but we the people will continue to tell them to F off.
And if we the people were really as violent as they like to think we are then there wouldn’t be any of the totalitarians left.
Just remember though you can only push a person so far before they snap & we the people are the ones armed to the teeth.
+1!!! You are 100% correct and historically accurate, Greg.
The phrase, “necessary to the security of a free state,” means necessary to secure freedom itself, as embodied within the context of a state (by government). The purpose of the Second Amendment has nothing to do with securing the borders of THIS particular state (the U.S.A.). The Constitution sees to that matter, quite appropriately, outside of the Bill of Rights. The Bill of Rights is 100% devoted to protecting the rights, freedom, and liberty of the individual. Any other interpretation of the meaning of the Second Amendment is completely inconsistent with the entire remainder of the Bill of Rights!
Rather, the preamble of the Second Amendment is a general observation and rule the founders made with respect to the possibility of securing freedom and liberty in ANY state (in general). It only serves to inform the reader of the founders’ motivation for penning the Second Amendment. The Second Amendment has nothing to do with “sporting purpose” firearms, hunting, or even self defense from muggers and rapists!
They get away with these fake mass shootings to sway the mood of the public to get rid of guns. Where does this stop. Look this stuff up. Its textbook deception used in war to manipulate the minds of the opposition, to destablized to conqure. Theres is no proof that sandyhook was real. Take your heads out of the sand and face the uncomfortable truth and tell people about it
Destruction of the Second Amendment will never happen through the political process. There would be a revolution in this country if it was tried. They will however, possibly try to remove ownership of weapons owned by the citizens through force, again which will not be easy. While the government may have more technology in weaponry, they do not have the numbers compared to private citizens that own weapons. And, it is highly unlikely that they would be able to turn our own armed forces against the citizens of this country!
It scares the s%^t out of me, but what can we do
I know I’m mostly preaching to the choir here, but even some of you fall into the media traps. Examples:
1. AR 15 stands for “ArmaLite Rifle”, which is the company that first developed it in the 1950’s. It does NOT stand for “assault rifle”.
2. An AR15 is NOT an “Automatic” weapon. It is a semi-automatic, as is a Ruger 10/22 or a 1911 pistol.
3. An “assault rifle” such as an AK47 for military use, can be fired in automatic or semi-automatic mode. These are military weapons, not civilian. They take special ATF permits to possess for civilians
4. “Military style” rifle simply means that there are features similar to military rifles, mainly in looks – NOT function.
5. The term “GUN VIOLENCE” was invented by the anti-2nd amendment left and liberal media. Did they call the Boston Marathon bombing an act of “Pressure Cooker” violence or a hit and run an act of car violence or a deliberate drowning an act of “swimming pool” violence? This term is used to subconsciously brain wash the masses into thinking that guns are somehow evil and violent, and the mere possession of one will turn you into a murderer.
6. The number of deaths from guns when quoted by the media, always includes suicide deaths, which account for almost twice as many gun deaths as murder. If they were honest, the anti-gun crowd would exclude these because lets face it; someone determined to kill themselves are not going to just say “Oh well, I don’t have a gun so I guess I will just have to live.”
7. Excluding suicide, gun deaths don’t even come close to deaths caused by auto accidents (about 300% more) or medical mistakes (over 22,000% more), let alone all the abortions performed in this country (about 89,000% more, or over 50,000,000 since Roe V. Wade)
8. The Anti-2nd Amendment crowd makes statements like “No one needs an assault rifle for hunting.” or “No one is trying to take your guns away, we just want common sense gun laws.” or “Why does anyone need more than one gun?”
Well, the 2nd Amendment wasn’t written just to allow for hunting. In fact it quite specifically states that “A well regulated Militia, being NECESSARY TO THE SECURITY OF A FREE STATE, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” If you study the Founding Fathers intent and quotes about this, you will see that they were referring to a citizen militia to defend against tyranny from our own government, as well as defending against foreign threats. No where in the 2nd Amendment is the word “except”.
George Washington said: “A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined…”
Thomas Jefferson said: “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
James Madison said: “The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country.”
William Pitt said: “Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”
I would like to add that the Boston Marathon surviving terrorist was convicted of using a weapon of ‘mass destruction’ , pressure cooker bombs. GEE ‘we’ didn’t find “ANY” pressures cooker in Iraq, strange.
Gun owners need to stay OUT of court. The courts are NOT your friend. 4 out of 5 lawsuits are brought in court by gun owning plaintiffs. This is insane. Gun owners will do well to realized – Courts are NOT your friend. Stay out of court.
I must agree with both of you on this matter. You can use California’s new CCW laws as proof of this. That actually started because the San Diego Sheriff wouldn’t allow a permit to a resident because he didn’t have just cause. Now at the time the Sheriff was wrong, but because suit was filed and it went up to the 9th, CCW took a major blow. However, I believe that was the plan all along.
(My 2¢)
I live in Cali and it sucks for a lot of reasons. But the worst is how oppressive the gun laws are. The person above is right. Stay out of court and just do what you gotta do. Laws don’t protect you or your family. Only you can do that. Strap it up tight in the small of your back and CCW away. That’s what I do.
This happened because the judicial branch of the US government is just as corrupt as the rest of the US government. All branches of the US government from local to federal level are the same
LIE, CHEAT, STEAL and be very VERY CORRUPTABLE.
I climb out of bed and turn on the news and I see the head Catholic in Chicago crying, begging Congress to pass new laws and harsher regulations, trying to abolish the second amendment. Any law regulating the second amendment is illegal. The few lawsuits brought have been upheld but no one has the cash or time to fight an illegal supreme Court. We cannot win. They know damn well all these laws are illegally passed but they also know that no one can legally fight them. Might makes right. The only solution is to follow the Constitution and ignore gun laws where possible. Not saying anyone should openly march to jail by waving guns at cops in school zones but concealed means concealed and we start to organize. Just tell me how in Illinois.
Never broadcast your plans, stay vigilant and buy your pvc now. Pick your holes carefully and don’t forget to report all of your firearms stolen. God bless yall.
I have lived in Ct. my whole life. I would move from here in a second if I could but because of family and property that I own that I depend on for income I can’t move. There is no hope to vote these politicians out of here because of the mind set of the people that live in this state. I get treated like a POS when I try ordering gun parts on line and they blame ME for electing the political officials in this state. I’m sick and tired! The problem I have with what gov. Malloy did is he passed those laws after Sandy Hook virtually overnight!!! Bypassing due process of law!!! He broke the law!!! If that isn’t grounds for appeal I don’t know what is! CAN SOMEONE Please TELL ME Why WE Are NOT ATTACKING THOSE LAWS SOLELY ON THAT BASIS? I would appreciate anyone getting back to me and try explaining this because it seems clear in what direction this should be taken. Thanks , Tom
the people need to remove these judges and politicians, and put their TRAITOR A–ES in prison…it’s a good thing we have OUR Constitution to confirm our RIGHTS…this means THEY CAN TAKE THEIR TREASONOUS ILLEGAL LAWS AND SHOVE THEM BACK UP THEIR STUPID IGNORANT A–ES WHERE THEY CAME FROM…MOLON LABE…
Here’s what’s sad: the people who live in these states let it happen. You can say whatever you want to say, but apathy leads to crap like this. Another really sad point is that the only one to vote for who isn’t anti gun is a loud mouthed idiot who has no business running this country to begin with. I can’t stand either Hillary or Trump, but I’ll vote pro gun even though I lean towards the democrat side.
It’s all dangerous. Voting for Trump and the unforeseen damage he’s no doubt going to do to us in the long run, or voting for a an anti gunner who has been guarded by guns half her life yet knows nothing about them and wants to take ours every time some inhuman maniac does something horrible.
People, do you really think that goon squads will be going door to door collecting guns? Can you imagine the logistics involved with that? What’s more, do you really think that once it started, the people would just sit back and take it? I don’t. I think they would have a civil war on their hands. There is no way (at least right now, and hopefully never will be) to track who owns what. I have sold guns to friends, etc, and who is to say that they even have them now? There’s just no way to know if I have them buried somewhere on my property, off of my property or whatever. I’ll buy a couple of hi points and maybe a phoenix or two and let them take those if they want them. My good ones will not be taken. Yours won’t either, if you use your head and be proactive.
Yours truly, a gun loving, constitution defending Democrat
At least with Trump, it is a bit of the unknown. We know exactly what we will get with Clinton: Abolish the 2nd Amendment, more bribes from Middle Eastern jihadists governments, more bodies turning up mysteriously when they have something on the Clinton’s (don’t forget the Whitewater body count of dozens), higher taxes, poverty increasing even more (it is already at a 50 year high under Obama), even more unemployed adults (already at an all time record high under Obama), more needless conflicts (like assassinating Qaddafi and letting Libya fall into chaos), more tragedies like Benghazi, more scandals like the private email server, more anti-American people in our government like her radical Muslim top adviser, Huma Abedin, who even stated that Hillary is “easily confused”.
Not a hard choice for me!
My fellow patriots, please realize to date, we have lost California, Connecticut, and now Hawaii. PLUS towns lost to the muslim hoard invasion. We say we are standing up together, but we are slowly and systematically losing footing, and it scares and worries me as well as it should you. If we say we stand together, let us STAND TOGETHER.
In the coming months, we will be inundated with campaign ads. No matter what we see on the tube, or hear from the pundits. The most important bottom line is that if Hillary is elected, not only can we kiss the 2nd amendment goodbye, but we will also lose the greatest country ever known.
The Democrat party has essentially offered a platform that offers “free stuff” in return for their votes. Are they correct in saying in effect, that most Americans will sell out for a pittance? This explains why so many morons are driving around with Bernie stickers on their cars.
In addition, Hillary has no problem with keeping the borders open. Let me say this: if those “refugees” are fleeing oppression rather than fighting the dictators that have brought that to their doorstep, why would we want to allow them to come here? If they would not stand and fight for their own country, they will certainly be dead weight in a battle to defend this country.
Vote Trump or whomever is the GOP candidate. The alternative is Hillary.
Unfortunately, in my state, California, The extremely liberal representatives are enacting several laws to restrict the law abiding citizens from their constitutional rights to own whatever type of weapon they choose. They are ramming through about 10 or 12 new bills that they have made up from gutting other bills and sending them through without going through committees to determine if they are legal, cost effective, etc. The jackass of a governor we have will probably sign them as fast as he can, as well. It doesn’t do any good to call them, email them, petition them, or anything else. They are acting on their own without regard to the citizens. What is a person to do in a state like this? I don’t know. It seems like voting doesn’t do any good either because of all the radical liberal people here.
Must I be on the dark net in order to find these patriotic militia groups? I understand that it is dangerous to advertise in these fascist times but I am lost in Illinois.
I may be wrong but I seem to recall that a large number of firearms company’s are located in Conn, so here’s my take
If you are a business who produces anything involving the shooting sports then I will cease buying anything you make until you do as Magpul did and relocate. I will be doing an internet search to see who is still there doing business with those fools and will cease to buy your goods…
It is likely that you won’t miss me or my money, but if the rest of these gun folks will boycott your business then maybe it will be noticed.
Please Google “Nobody Died at Sandy Hook” and look for where you can download a free PDF book of the same name. The author decided to give it out for free after it became the first and only book to ever be banned for sale by Amazon dot com.
I REALLY thought it was going to be tin foil hat stuff until I read it. There is now no question in my mind about Sandy Hook being an Obama – Jarrett production that used crisis actors. Please download it and see for yourself that the school had been closed for two years. The photographs tell the whole story and will leave you without any doubt. God help us!
I concur. So, how do we prevent these idiots from getting away with this crap. The ode to “fire” everyone and replace them sounds good but what do we do when they run unopposed or the challenger is worse than the incumbent.
Caught the tail-end of a news conference last night. Some low-life POS was ranting against ‘military style’ assault weapons, saying that; ‘they are so dangerous, no one should be allowed to own them. Their high capacity and high rate of fire produces massive carnage and massive casualties.’
Chalk up another one for deceit, misinformation and lies. Those who know little of firearms will believe this and still believe the biggest lie of all about ‘military look-a-likes’; they fire farther and more powerfully than do ‘civilian’ weapons of the same caliber. “There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics.” (Benjamin Diareli) Add to this Politicians & Journalists telling ‘damnable lies’ as passing them off as truth.
I lived in CT for 42 years. I moved there from VT in 1965 because of employment opportunities asVT is a depressed state and offers only a few. I believe the federal government under Clinton passed the national Assault Weapon ban in what? 1993? Ct was not satisfied with it and passed its own a year later with A LOT more weapons on the list. It was already a law in CT that no one could even possess an automatic weapon, never mind that the federal government allows such if one buys the $200 stamp. I left the state in 2007 to move to AL to escape the extremely high property taxes. Since then CT has passed not only a stronger Assault Weapons law, but made its citizens have to sign an affidavit to purchase ammunition as well. Then there was the Sandy Hook debacle. It has been proven that the school had been closed for over two years and that the parents of the supposed dead children were paid by Big Brother to the tune of $280,000 to keep quiet about the lies spread. All of this information is available to anyone that is interested in a “catalog of Information” that I receive from a Hawaiian address. Also the teacher that supposedly gave her life to protect her ‘charges’ was seen a few years later in Boston, MA alive and kicking. The Bushmaster that the alleged ‘perp’ had in the trunk of his mother’s car had been Illegal To Possess for over 15 years so how come it was purported a part of a gun collection? A government plot in goad the population into passing more gun control laws? You betcha! And yet the local police in West Hartford, Ct have fully automatic M 16s because “they need them to protect themselves from the criminals”. Sadly, I have friends that own properties in CT that they cannot afford to sell so they must live under the laws of this police state!
Forget the Supremes! Forget the feds! Despite all the perpetual promises (merely ink on paper, really) and protections from the founding fathers, the United States of American has been overthrown! The Bill of Rights (the basis for the entire existence of the U.S.A.) has been nullified. It is dead. Thus, the United States of America no longer exists!
All hope for liberty lies with the states and the individual. If you don’t live in a liberty-minded state, then MOVE! Vote with your feet and actions. Part company with your neighbors and people who overthrew the U.S.A..Forget about the polling place (via proxy, the most violent place on earth)!
Think secession! Although the U.S.A. is currently the most powerful empire the world has ever known, I guarantee that within a relatively short time, the federal government will not be nearly as powerful as it is today. If nothing else, economic collapse is guaranteed by the U.S. (and nearly the world) fiat monetary systems. Be ready for that day!
We’ve got to “Stand and Fight” and tell these idiots you cannot change the Constitution because you don’t like something. I don’t like Sushi. Should I go to the High Court and have them Sushi illegal just me and a few others I’m sure don’t like it.
Quoted from above:
In court briefs, State Attorney General George Jepsen claimed the law was written to restrict access “to firearms that are owned by a small percentage of gun owners and are disproportionately used in gun crime, particularly the most heinous forms of gun violence.” However, he failed to show any actual numbers to back up that fact that semi-auto long guns or “high capacity” magazines are used disproportionately in furtherance of the majority crime, instead citing statistics from Sandy Hook.
Where, for God’s sake, does it say that the REAL Constitution – Not Hillar or Bloomberg’s version.
THEY WORK F O R US. They are awnswerable to us. How did we ever let it get so bad.
Now what can we do? I’ve signed up as a NRA Mentor program and I talk consistently about the First, Second Fourteenth Ammendments. But until clear Washington we still have FIGHT FOR OR RIGHTS.
GOD BLESS US!
Mr. Burns, perhaps the Constitution cannot be changed, except by due process. However: crooked, lying politicians, (and the U.S. has more than it’s share,) do not give a damm about the Constitution and have sidestepped it on numerous, (too numerous to count,) occasions, by using Executive Orders.
This is true. The GW Bush Administration did exactly that in order to invade Iraq. But that’s another story .
CT has had NO success in their latest gun grab scheme. There has been about a 5% (est) compliance to their mid-nite gun law session. Strange how they had to just put the law on the books, but no-one in the state has the cajones to start the house to house search yet. Could it be that they’re afraid of all the ex Remington, Colt, WInchester, Mossberg, Marlin, HiStandard, Ruger etc employees are not about to simply hand them over or rat our their neighbors??
@VT Patriot: Believe me, we Patriots that stand against the tyranny in the state of Kommiecticut are glad they lack the cajones to start it, because it would be a bloodbath and very bad . The fact that we are at a stalemate keeps everyone alive.
I live in CT now. The state’s Office if Legislative Research wrote before the sandy hook gun laws that there were an estimated 350 to 500 thousand semi-auto ‘AR-15 style’ rifles in the state. They got about 36k registrations, so 10% or less depending on the accuracy of their estimate. (I think the 500k number is low, myself.) The magazine registration law was virtually ignored across the board. Private citizens still sell or buy guns without registering the sale. Too few LEO’s are going to accept ‘confiscation raids’ duty – they want to go home alive. And the state is so close to bankrupt now that they can’t even afford to prosecute unregistered guns or magazines, and forget about jailing 400k gun owners who didn’t register – can’t pay for that either. And then there would be the welfare costs to support the families of the killed or jailed gun owners. No way can that be paid for. So basically it wasn’t ‘for the children’, but it was all about gun control ‘for show’. The cowards who won’t even protect their own children wanted to feel superior to those who will do that and will use a gun for it, so they passed gun control cuz it made them feel better about their diaper-loads every time they see a gun.
More proof that everyone needs to get off their asses and vote for Trump – doing otherwise means Hillary in the WH and 2-3 anti-gun judges on SCOTUS over the next 4 years
More of our current gun rights will be taken from us away if we allow the Republican establishment to continue to oppose Donald Trump. Their failure to support Trump and the electorate who nominated him to be the Republican presidential candidate will give the presidency and the Supreme Court to Clinton. Please contact your Republican House and Senate representatives and make it clear to them that their job future will be dependant on how well they support Trump.
Court rulings no longer matter. The laws in Kommiecticut and NY have been long rendered NULL & VOID by The Armed Civil Disobedience of Non-Compliance. The question now is; will the tyrants feel froggy enough to look at this as the green light for the zero-dark-thirty, door-to-door, armed confiscations, performed by jack-booted thugs? Are you prepared to have your door kicked in, dogs shot, and wife and kids screaming face-down on the floor in handcuffs? You should be, whether you are a gun owner or not, because in order to be effective, they will have to crap on our 4th Amendment rights, too. In the meantime, we continue to:
DEFY-DECEIVE-EVADE-RESIST-SMUGGLE-DEFEND
As always, it remains their move. I hope to remain status quo.
I do not obey unconstitutional laws. F@$# them.