Kel-Tec Announces New .22WMR Handgun, the PMR-30

Kel-Tec today announced the newest gun to their lineup, the PMR-30 pistol chambered in .22WMR. The PMR-30 is a double stack semiautomatic pistol that has a 30-round magazine.

From Kel-Tec’s press release:

The slide and barrel are 4140 steel, the frame is 7075 aluminum. Grip, slide cover, trigger, mag release, and safety levers are glass reinforced Nylon (Zytel), much like other Kel-Tec Pistols. The magazine is Also Zytel and holds 30 rounds, with round count ports. Other features include dual opposing extractors for reliability, heel magazine release to aid in magazine retention, dovetailed aluminum front sight, Picatinny accessory rail under the barrel, Urethane recoil buffer, captive coaxial recoil springs. The barrel is fluted for lightweight and effective heat dissipation. The PMR-30 disassembles for cleaning by removal of a single pin. The PMR-30 is a lightweight, full-size pistol chambered for the flat-shooting .22 Magnum cartridge (.22 WMR). The PMR-30 operates on a unique hybrid blowback/locked-breech system. This operation system allows for the use of a wide variety of ammunition as it seamlessly adjusts between locked breach and blowback operation, depending on the pressure of the cartridge. It uses a double stack magazine of a new design that holds 30 rounds and fits completely in the grip of the pistol. The trigger is a crisp single action with an over-travel stop. The manual safety is a thumb-activated ambidextrous safety lever (up for SAFE, down for FIRE). The slide locks back after the last shot and a manual slide lock lever is also provided. The light, crisp trigger pull and fiber optic sights make the PMR-30 ideal for target shooting and hunting small game.

Expected Availability: Quarter 2, 2010 Expected MSRP: $415 Caliber: .22 Magnum (.22WMR) Barrel length 4.3” Length: 7.9” Height: 5.8” Grip Width: 1.1” Max width, across safety levers: 1.3” Magazine capacity: 30 rounds Trigger pull: 3.5 to 5 lbs Weight (no mag): 13.6 oz. Muzzle Velocity (40 gr): 1230 fps Made in USA More info will be available at the SHOT show 2010 Kel-Tec Booth (#2825)

Many of Kel-Tec’s guns share an incredible number of similarities with Kellgren’s Grendel designs. Comparing the Grendel P10 with the Kel-Tec P3AT for example one can see how the P10 was essentially a prototype for the now-famous P3AT. Redesigning the Grendel P30 into the new PMR-30 seems only natural The Grendel was not the first autoloader to fire the .22 WMR. AMT (now sold by High Standard) designed a very elegant pistol for the cartridge back in the mid 1970s, the Automag II. In 2007 Excel Industries also released their own .22 Magnum pistol. Like the Automag II, the Excel MP-22 also uses a single-stack magazine.It’s really no surprise that Kel-Tec is finally releasing (or should I say, re-releasing?) the PMR-30. Swedish designer George Kellgren initially designed the Grendel P30 .22 Magnum autoloader. Now, it’s been rehashed and re-released as the Kel-Tec PMR-30.

There’s a reason that semiautomatic handguns chambered in .22 Magnum are rare. Engineering an autoloader for that cartridge is no easy feat. The .22 WMR cartridge has some unique characteristics which make it difficult to work with in an autoloader. It was initially designed as a rifle cartridge, and as such is generally loaded with slow-burning rifle powder. This causes the cartridge to develop a late peak pressure, which leads to the possibility of the case mouth expanding and jamming in the chamber.

The Grendel P30 also had a double-stack Zytel plastic magazine, which the Kel-Tec PMR-30 also appears to use. The Grendel P30 utilized a fluted chamber to facilitate better extraction, while the engineers at AMT took a different approach. They drilled 18 holes at 90 degrees to the chamber, and then welded a larger sleeve around that to provide room for excess gasses to vent. No word yet on what approach the engineers at Kel-Tec in the P30 chamber design, though presumably, they will use the same fluted chamber design as the Grendel.

Kellgren also designed a carbine model of the Grendel P30, designated the R31. Presumably, we can look forward to Kel-Tec releasing a carbine companion to their new PMR-30 pistol sometime in the not too distant future.

Do you have a PMR-30? Tell us about it in the comment section.

The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt!'s blog, The Shooter's Log, is to provide information—not opinions—to our customers and the shooting community. We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. The information provided here does not represent the views of Cheaper Than Dirt!

Comments (112)




  2. I love my Kel-tec PMR-30. got it several weeks ago and I just love it. fire power is just awesome. and the whole family loves to shoot it. Just make sure u use US mfged ammo as recommended. other than the time it takes to break in the magezines for 30 rounds ( I usually dont go over 27 ) I did have a feed problem at 30 rounds but only for the first round … or maybe the first two rounds. Also I ‘may have used’ a euro set of rounds when that happened but the gun did not explode or anything. I really like it an hope to give it a brother (or sister) this year. Billy

  3. I love the concept of the PMR-30 and ordered 2 of them which no-one seems to have yet in the Pacific Northwest. I received a report from my FFL and business partner in Florida regarding another friend of ours.He had a PMR and took it to the range numerous times until the last trip where it blew up! He sent it back to Kel-Tec and they replaced it with a new one which blew up again on him. Mike loves the gun and the function when it shot but is understandably nervous about the 2 malfunctions. It appears to be a feed problem but nothing is conclusive as yet.I am hoping they clear the problem and start shipping asap. Kent Bogard c/o

  4. Seems that reliability is not great for some poeple. Jose on October 17th, 2010 posted here that he used CCI Maxi-Mag ammo with good success. I wonder if that was the 30 grian hollow point bullets that say Maxi-MAG Plus V, that shot from a 22 imch rifle barrel produces about 2,200 fps velocity? That same round shot through a rifle produces 324 ft pounds of energy from the muzzzle. That is the exact same energy as a 9MM centerfire round! I would like more feedback from people that have purchased these pistols and what different types of ammo they experimented with. Does anyone know what Kel-Tec sells the extra 30 round magizines for, money wise? It appears that some whole pisols have beeen selling for $299.00. Can anyone confirm that price? I am very interested if I can find one for sale now in December 2010, or January 2011 time frame. I live out in the West Coast. Does anyone know of any dealers in say Washington state? I saw Kel-Tec’s ad in the January 2011 issue of American Hunter magazine on page 68, that I just recieved. Please share your experiences good or bad on this pistol. Thanks.

  5. Bought one Fri. Shot it Sat. Ready to send it backto factory. Can’t load either mags. to full capacity. 23 is all I can load per mag. and when I do, slide won’t go forward to chamber a round. When loaded to 15 rds. slide will then go into battery. Out of 30 rounds fired only 4 could hit a 4 x4 inch target at 15 yds. During the 30 rds. expenditure, I had a 66% malfunction rate, i.e. failure to feed, failure to extract, failure to eject. Worst experiance I ever endured with a weapon!!!!

  6. Just put two on order. $299.00 Each.

    These should be well worth the wait!

    I own a 6″ barreled AMT Automag II Chambered in WMR. She functions flawlwssly; given I use the reccomendations, of the manufaturer and use Winchester Super X only!

    Should be two great additons to my 22 collection.

    Thanks Kel_Tek

  7. Got one Teltec 22mag today .Great gun, no failures with CCI 22Mag out of the box, accurate at 15 yards and minimal recoil in spite of being wery light, the sights are easy to see , those 30 rnds are a big PLUS when comparing with the AMT pistol

  8. I love it! What else is there to say? And for all you non-believers in the 22 round, why would British, Israeli and now American Special forces be using 22lr semi’s in urban combat? Answer 3 quick (accurate) rounds to the head and move to next target, and low extra ammo weight.

  9. Very curious to know owners thoughts on these guns before i buy one. As far as the controversy between 22lr and 22magnum i can tell u from experience i’ve had the walther p22 with the 5in barrel and currently own a 15yr old amt automag 2 with a 6in barrel. When shooting an armadillo it would take 3or 4 rounds of 22lr with the magnum it takes one round and it doesn’t matter if its in the head or the side. I hate to hear about the junk amts cuz mine is awesome i do have to clean it after about 60rds but so what u should clean any auto pistol often. As far as lemons go you will find that with any mfg. I’ve even witnessed a junk ruger 22/45 mark2 straight outta the box. My p22 began to fall apart after i put a couple thousand rds through it.

  10. Ask any ER Doc about a 22 mag/LR bullet wound. They hate to see it coming. I was also taught in EMT training that the 22 bullet was the worst to get shot by for the simple reason it usually does not exit. Instead, it enters the body then tumbles around in the body leaving damage in its path. Imagine this in your head. It enters the skull then spins and spins till it’s out of energy. Meanwhile your brain just went to the point of no return. Don’t underestimate the 22!

  11. Okay… any new information on when this thing will be available? I talked to my local Kel-Tec dealer and they didn’t know anything about when they might be able get one. Same thing over and over I know but someone has to know something.

  12. I got my PMR-30 that I had on order for months. Several issues:failure to feed, failure to eject, failure of the trigger to reset, breech locking open when magazine not empty, breech closing after magazne is empty. Tried and tried with help from good local gunsmith to fix, no luck. pistol now on way back to Kel-Tec, so stay tuned.

  13. I’m new at this ammo comparisan debate. I’m fixin’ to carry a Springfield XDM 3.8 9mm. I’ll have 20 rounds at my disposal but the XDM is a bit heavy when filled. I like the Tauros 941 .22 mag revolver but it only holds 8 rounds. I’ve maintained for some time that a .22mag semi would be ideal for self defense but could never find one with a shorter conceal length barrel…most being target pieces. Now, if I understand the info I’ve read in the above entries, shorter barrels deminish the power of the .22 round. Hence, will Kel-Tec ever shorten the PMR 30 barrel to make it more concealable?

  14. Ive, had several 22mag pistols..both pieces of **** that were unreliable or that simply did not work..I gave my Auto mag in 22 mag to a friend………. I got tired of screwing with it..The Grendel P30 I still have and it is still a piece of ****.. it spent a few months at Quantico with an armoror friend who confirmed it is a piece of ****.. he never could get it to work right hesent it back to me years ago and it still sits at the bottom of the safe..I hope the kel-tec works .. im gonna buy one and see. Love the 5.7×28 got a PS90 but no 57 pistol yet High capacity haul ass rounds in a pistol make my day

  15. As a father with 2 younger daughters and a petite wife, I have been looking for a weapon exactly like this. Sure the price is a bit more than an AR-7, but its a hell of alot less than a FN 5.7. or a Walther P22. This type of handgun will fill a crucial role in the “S*** hits the fan” kits as well as being easily carried in a backpack for those long weekends at the cabin in the Pennsylvania Appalachians. All my girls are competant shooters as well as “outdoor-girls”. I am thrilled that a company recognized a need for a high-capacity med-caliber ( I say meduim caliber, because having fired the .22WMR. I think it has alot of “Bang” for its size) normally I would say only .380 or 9mm is a medium cal. but several years ago I took out a half-dozen wild dogs with my grandfathers bolt action at ranges out to 150 yards. I really didnt want to wait till they had gotten closer and encircled me and use the G17 I had with me. I hope that this venture works out for Kel-tec or that I can pick-up my trio before they stop production…LOL…

  16. Most of the Black Bears that I have seen or heard of killed in northern Mexico was shot with a .22 cal. long rifle. A well placed .22cal bullit is much better then the 4570 that I carry when You miss your target.I Hunted a bear a few years back that was killing my livestock carring my 7mm mag. My ranch forman killed it with one shot through the troth as it came out of the brush with my .22 colt dimmonback. I carry in the U.S. a Ruger GP 100 or my FN .45cal.pistols Bedside is a 12gauge 870 pump gun and .38 colt w/ bird shot. Love my kimber 1911 .45 Love .22 amd .22mags. .223’s Love them all
    I own many guns but have not been this excited about enything in a firearm sence I’ve heard about the Kel Tec .22 mag. I ordered one from a dealer frend for 349.00 dollers, could not stand waiting so I ordered another from a different dealer. You see the pictures w/spect’s plus price, I can’t see how you could go wrong. I would carry a Kel Tec PMR 30 for protecting Me amd Mine long as it feeds and shots proper

  17. Talked to Kel-tec today. A very small shippment went out on Friday. Both the next two shippments will be small.

  18. For me it is simple for a long time i have been waiting for a hi-cap semi auto in 22mag. Most of the flak on the PMR-30 that i have seen has come from the cost of rounds vs 22lr. The argument to me does not warrant merit, I am willing to pay extra for extra, if 22mag at pistol length delivers 22lr high velocity rifle performance then there my friend is the cost difference, with higher quality bullets being a bonus. The 40cal or more crowd luv big hard hitting holes but i love HITTING so this one is for me. 22lr is great, I run through a ton of it but it has its place and so does this round in pistol length. I have one on order and when it arrives i think my 9mm will be replaced for self defense because of how accurately i can shoot 22cal. Sorry bigger is better guys but for me its what works best for my needs. All BG’s be safe and rob a liberal because lies and propaganda wont hit home till well after u have pawned there stuff for drugs.

  19. The velocity difference between the black widow revolver and the kel-tec autoloader is because the cylinder gap in the revolver lets out gas and reduces the velocity, not because of the 0.3 inch longer barrel. The autoloader (Kel-Tec) does not leak gas, all of it goes to making the bullet go faster. I have a kel-tec 3AT, it is my daily carry gun (CCW) it’s a first gen, and I did a fluff and buff on it befor I ever shot it, it has never once had any kind of failure, I have put hundereds of rounds through it. I have a PLR too, and it is amazingly accurate, and reliable. KEl-Tec is one of my favorite companies. I hope some companies will come out with 22mag loaded with pistol powder, that will be interesting to say the least.

  20. I like to know where I can buy the pistol and if 30 rds are legal in Wittmann, Arizona.
    Thank you in advance for your help.

  21. I appreciate all of the info on the PMR30, but what I want to know is when will it be available for purchase, and what is the estimated price per unit?

  22. Made the mistake? of shooting a few 22 mags from an old mossberg rifle at a 22 portable target, the ones w/ the round, free swinging targets in 3 sizes. the differance from a CCI stinger (wich barely scatched the paint) and a 22 mag out of that long barrell was stunning. I had just seen a Grendel 22mag pistol at a gun show, REALLY wished i had bought it. The 22 mags didn’t penatrate, but they sure “bubbled out” the back, and tore the edge off on a flyer. Be very efective if they can get more of that powder to burn, listening CCI???

  23. Mine has been on order from the first moment I read about this pistol…expected in another month or so.
    Lot’s of negative comments centered around .22 mags performance compared to the .22 lr, and “poor choice due to cost of rounds”, etc.
    Do any of you (negative)guys own a gun just for the pleasure of shooting one? What’s more fun than 30 rounds of ANY caliber built into a pistol? Maybe 31 rounds? Good Lord, what a blast this thing is going to be, to shoot!
    And for those of you who think this is not a good choice for self-defense…let me point out that the bad guy is probably not used to getting shot-back at, and might panic a bit. If three or four rounds of .22 magnum at typical self-defense ranges does not fully discourage the attacker, then shoot again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, check to see if he’s moving, if so, then shoot again, and again, and again, and again, and again… 🙂

  24. WOW, this will be so nice. I have used the 22mag Win lever action rifle for 40 years, it never let me down. The PMR-30 with the 30 rounds clip will be great for the snakes to play with. Ordered my today from local gun dealer, cannot wait until it gets in. Will report back.
    We have only one trip through life, enjoy it to the end. Order your today!!!

  25. Hey Guys ,
    As was the case a month ago , the buzz is real big on this one . Dropping by ” Bass Pro ” , ” Gander Mt. ” and my local gun club here in eastern Va. , this is being considered as one great defense weapon , ( at least for the recoil sensitive shooters like my wife ) . Agreed , I prefer my 7 plus 1 S&W 457 police back-up 45 ACP but I’m used to pulling off a clip in 2 secs. with lethal accuracy @ 15-25 ft. which is fine for me but she has shown an inability to adjust to so much kick . I also realize that the ft. lbs. of energy releasted by just one of these .45 rds. is enough to drop the average bad guy but she just can’t get past the flinch response on that first , and most important shot which could eliminate her accuracy … We both love shooting my Rugar single six in both 22LR & 22WMR and there is no doubting the difference in recoil . They are both manageable but the 2.5X powder increase in the mag. is obvious . As the ballistics have shown , that 2.5 increase in powder isn’t efficently utilized in the short barrel of any handgun but there is some velocity improvement . If this gun’s reliability in feed and the popularity of a 30 rd. capacity grow , some major supplier of ammo is going to capitalize on the profit potential and configure a 22WMR hollow pt. and / or frangible round that burns hotter and delivers all of it’s kenetic energy quickly and by opening up or fragmenting .
    All I have to do is teach her to not fire once , drop the gun and scream , ” O My God , What have I done ?
    It may be enough depending on the placement of the shot , but I intend her to keep pulling that trigger until the bastard is on his back and then the threat should be neutralized . ( IF NOT , PUT THE LAST 17 RDS. IN HIS ASS )! Sure , she will loose a few nights sleep but at least she will wake up every morning right next to me .


  26. Pingback: Kel Tec PMR 30
  27. For anyone who has ever owned a Grendel P-30, P-31, or R-31, they know what a joy these guns are.

    Having a .22WMR semi-auto that WORKS is a rare find, nobody else ever made anything near as reliable as the Grendels…and you had to keep ’em as clean as M-16A1’s…clean meticulously after every range visit.

    For those who don’t know, the .22WMR has a lot more OOMPH than the ballistic numbers suggest. Check out the Box O’ Truth website for more info.

    But the fact is, folks take deer & large hogs with .22WMR all the time. If it’ll drop a 200+ pound animal, it’ll drop a 200+ pound human.

    Will it STOP someone intent on doing you bodily harm? Depends on where ya hit ’em…but 30 rounds of .22WMR is definitely gonna put a BG down, one way or the other…if only from blood loss.

    And as far as those affected by lousy gun laws (Kali, NY, NJ, Illinois), VOTE PRO-GUN REPUBLICAN…or loose your rights, it’s that simple. Can’t change existing laws till ya THROW THE BUMS OUT!!

  28. Who’d want a 10-round .22 the size of a P-38? BTW, the tables I’ve seen show .22 Mag/4″+ barrel slightly ahead of a .22 LR from a rifle: quite a step up from a LR pistol. JE

  29. I love the gun but just like the Springfield Armory XDM models there are NO 10 round magazines offered by the manufactures. There is also NO aftermarket manufacturer making 10 round mags for either gun. They are leaving a lot of money on the table and are stupidly not caring if people in states like mine (NY) who would purchase theses guns cannot. An online petition should be started so the manufacturers realize how many of us are out here ready, willing and able to plunk down our hard-earned dough for there cutting edge products. Maybe then Kel-Tek and Springfield would accommodate those of us who have our rights challenged by these stupid laws.

  30. I wouild like to purchase one but you dont have any of them out any where how do I Buy me a new PMR 30?

  31. Lots of good stuff from fellow enthusiasts on this weapon . All I know is , when I pull the trigger of my Ruger
    single six , ” for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction ” and I can sure tell the difference in the , albeit limited recoil , it still is significantly different between the .22 mag and LR. It has a 4 ” barrel and that is right about where we are with this new pistol .
    ln my opinion , having even a 20 percent increase in velocity here would not only greatly increase the transfer of energy to the intended target but also spread the hollow point even more . That energy transference could continue to the tune of 30 rounds makes this weapon sound very attractive as a personal defense weapon . The recoil is so minimal that pulling off the entire clip in 10 seconds with pretty good accuracy makes me want one real bad ! If I could teach the ‘ol lady to ” keep pulling the trigger ” she would be a little rattled but alive and well there-after ! $ 415.00 is the current dealers quote but I have a feeling it may increase .
    My only concern with this gun is it’s reliability in feeding . I have purchased several newly released semi-autos , the 17 HMR for example , and have found some issues in reliability . I would like to see , hell , shoot this PMR-30 prior to purchase as the 22 WMR. is one terrific round but it is long and many issues have soft points as well as semi and fully jacketed slugs . If there are restrictions as to the type , powder configurations , bullet types and manufacturers , fill me in . I think I love this one !

  32. I have an AMT and love the pistol but I had a lot of trouble keeping it from jamming after about twenty rounds before cleaning. I found an old magazine “American Rifleman August 1987” that said AMT suggested using only winchester ammo or similar loaded with ball powder while CCI is loaded with “flake” powder. I don’t know if this is still the case with CCI because it is my favorite rimfire ammo but since using the Winchester I have had very few problems. This has something to do with the little holes that keep the shell casing in the chamber for the correct amount of time. I killed a 120 pound wild pig at about 50 yards with a winchester solid while out checking traps. The sights on the AMT are great, and if Kel-Tec puts adjustable sights on the PMR I will have to step up for the extra 23 rounds. Extra 23 rounds, just had to say it again.

  33. First impression after reading American Rifleman – neat concept. .22 Mag though is a shame – its an in-between round and will hinder the sales. While some will appreciate it – it could do much better taking the concept (and the 30rd mag) and putting it into something where emptying the clip doesn’t empty your wallet too.

    Lots of .22lr conversion kits coming out cheaper than this now if you own their bigger cal pistols already (most of us do) – if you own a P226 you can shoot .22lr cheaper all day, same thing with Kimber 1911 conversions and CZ75s with the Kadet and on and on…

    You gotta give ’em what they want…please make it .22lr friendly with a 30rd mag!

    Love my Kel-tec rifle though – definitely the best in quality!

  34. This is not too scientific. However I just got a 22mag/22long rifle single action pistol. I shoot in my shop at phone books from about 20 feet. The 22 mags made lots of noise and went through the book and I found the slugs. The 22 long rifles made less noise and also went through the book but to my surprise they also went into the boards behind the phone books. So like one person mentioned a chronograph is needed to give some facts to the use of these rounds in these short barrels.

  35. love the .22 mag. I feel like Borat…”great success”…. “very nice” I have been pondering on the best survival round for a while now. Is it a traveling round? It it a hold the fort round? Ya, most of us have the deer gun, a shot gun or two, .22 rifles,. … .45 pistol , pistol ?? EUREKA! ! The survival round should fit BOTH rifle and pistol. How can you beat the .22 mag? pour gallons into your coat pocket and not be weighed down. fill 5 gallon buckets up with them at home.

    You have your NAA black widow, your single six, your Savage 93 mag. and now your 30 round kel-tec . you can shoot forever and don’t even clean em till you feel like it ! Now If I could find one of those old Ruger .22 auto mags Id be set.

  36. Sounds like a gun, I must buy, at the next gun show. Keep in mind, a lot of states, and cities have laws that 10 rounds is the most you can put in a clip, and stay legal. Getting caught will cost YOU a of MONEY. If you shoot a person, or most anything else,( I ain’t shooting a bear with no 22 anything) with 30 shots, that person or anything else, WILL NOT, want to make love to you. Single shots are my favorite guns, but they do not cut it as a gun for self defense. In that case, bigger is better. More shots is better. Story– old girl, home alone, punk breaks in*** She shoots him,*** at court the judge asks, why did you shoot that man 6 times. Lady answers*** Judge, after 6 shots the gun went, snap,snap, snap.

  37. love it i have a old revolver that i inherited from my grandfather that has interchangeable cylinders mag/LR and i notice a considerable difference i also have a marlin 22 mag lever action tube feed and a marlin 22 LR semi auto tube feed and same thing the mag has a lot more thump than the LR and as a carry weapon the 22 mag with a little practice will do what you need with 30 rds you can get trigger happy and have plenty of ammo i want to read more after they hit the market and then i will decide if i will buy one must admit looks cool and kel tec have been good to me when i needed work done on my 9mm i live near the factory and they reworked my trigger assembly and shipped it right back

  38. Will you be handling this firearm?
    Do you have any Idea what extra mags will cost?
    When besides just second quarter do you actually expect availability?

  39. Oh, and taurus cylinder/barrel gap is tiny, that helps taurus velocity. I have the 4″ .22 mag revolver, straight shooter, VERY heavy DA pull but when cocked it’s golden.

  40. G8RU82

    Nice… sums it all up. Thanks for bringing me up to date on the powder speed. All info I’d found had indicated this change was not yet addressed. Nice to know. I already liked the 34 grain supreme, have not been able to find the TNT round on my shelves yet.

  41. Since some folks are still questioning the VAST difference between the velocity and energy between a .22 WMR round and a .22 LR round, I got some additional comparison info. These are the actual testing numbers from the exact same guns with a 4 inch barrel(apples to apples), and their comparison to the Kel-Tec with a 4.3 inch barrel. I wouldn’t get too caught up in the “slower burning powder” argument… all ammo makers (particularly CCI) have been addressing that issue steadily, and the advantage of the magnum round in a pistol is still tremendous. As I showed above with a revolver with a 1 1/8 inch barrel, a similar advantage is seen in identical revolvers with 4 inch barrels. Kel-Tec has released revised info from the above. I figured 134 ft./lbs. of energy, and Kel-Tec says they’re getting 138.


    Calibers: .22 Magnum (.22WMR)
    Weight unloaded: 13.6oz. 186g
    Loaded Magazine: 6oz. 170g
    Length: 7.9″ 129mm
    Height: 5.8″ 89mm
    Width: 1.3″ 19mm
    Barrel length: 4.3″ 66mm
    Sight radius: 6.9″ 175.26mm
    Energy (40gr): 138ft-lbs 187J
    Capacity: 30 rounds
    Trigger pull: 3.5-5 lbs 23N

    Additionally, I’ve found some more ballistics information that should make this point abundantly clear; if it somehow hasn’t been made that way already. The Kel-Tec PMR-30 is establishing 138 ft./lbs. of energy with a 40 gr. bullet from a 4.3 inch barrel. North American Arms has ballistics info for all their guns, including the Black Widow with 4 inch barrel. They tested about 30 different .22 LR rounds of varying weights and designs in 2 separate guns, shooting 4 groups out of each gun to maintain an average velocity for each round. The hottest 40 gr. .22 LR round was a CCI Velocitor that averaged 904 fps. out of the 4 inch barrel of the Black Widow. That equates to 72.56 ft./lbs. of energy, or roughly 53% of the energy of the .22 WMR out of the Kel-Tec. The extra 200-300+ ft. per second one gets out of the magnum round makes a HUGE difference. Just for comparison, NAA got about 1100 fps. and 108 ft./lbs. of energy out of 1 of their .22 WMR rounds out of the Black Widow; so the extra .3 inches of barrel and/or a hotter round is likely responsible for the additional 130 fps. that the Kel-Tec is getting.

    Once again:
    * Kel-Tec .22 WMR 40 gr. bullet, 4.3 in. barrel – 1230+ fps., 138 ft./lbs. kinetic energy
    * NAA BW .22 WMR 40 gr. bullet, 4 in. barrel – 1,098 fps., 107.44 ft./lbs. kinetic energy
    * NAA BW .22 LR 40 gr. bullet, 4 in. barrel – 904 fps., 72.56 ft./lbs. kinetic energy

    That’s an enormous difference in my book… amazing what .3 of an inch in barrel length can do for velocity, and what an extra 200+ fps. will do for energy. The LR round only delivers 67.5% of the energy that the WMR round does out of the exact same revolver. In the exact same barrel length and brand of rifle, a CCI Velocitor LR (CCI’s hottest 40 gr. LR) registers 1435 fps. and 183 ft./lbs. of energy; while a CCI Maxi-Mag WMR (CCI’s hottest 40 gr. WMR) registers 1875 fps. and 312 ft./lbs. of energy. The LR round only delivers 58.7% of the energy that the WMR round does out of the same rifle. So, the advantage of the magnum over the long rifle is greater in a rifle, but not much greater than the advantage found in a handgun… only 8.8% greater.

    I also saw a test where the .22 Magnum performance from an autoloader was much better than it was out of a revolver; even a revolver with a much longer barrel than the automatic. Notice that the Taurus 5 inch revolver is getting much better velocity than the Ruger 7 1/2 inch revolver, and the AMT 6 inch AutoMag is getting much better velocity than both of the revolvers.

    Ammunition/Bullet Weight/Ruger 7-1/2 in/Taurus 5 in/AutoMag 6 in

    Winchester Supreme JHP 34 1506 1563 1650
    CCI Maxi-Mag TNT 30 1519 1542 1671
    CCI Maxi-Mag +V 30 1516 1596 1680
    Winchester Dynapoint 45 1105 1204 1256
    PMC Predator JHP 40 1215 1280 1412
    Federal Game-Shok JHP 50 1035 1085 1235

    So, there are quite a few factors that affect performance, but one thing holds true, regardless of whether you’re using a handgun with a 1 1/8 inch barrel, a handgun with a 4 inch barrel, or a rifle with a 24 inch barrel; and that is that the advantage of the magnum round over the long rifle round is quite significant. Now for the really important question… when do they actually ship?

  42. The .22 Magnum is a long, skinny case and I’ll be interested in seeing the feeding/extracting reliability.I’m not a “tacticool” kinda guy, but I like the looks of the Kel-Tec Mag. handgun.

  43. Definitely a gonna-have…

    .22 LR would be nice too, but the magnum is sweet.

    Already have a Super Single Six w/.22LR-.22WMR cylinders. Anyone who has one knows, there’s a BIG difference between Long Rifles and Magnums, even in a short barrel.

  44. Sounds very interesting, went to the local gun shop and asked about availability they said end of April/ beginning of May.
    A carbine with a 30 rd. mag maybe in stainless with a laminated stock would be very appealing.

  45. I love this pistol!
    Two points in favor of this rig.
    1) It’s a .22 “mag” which attracts many beginners.
    (I personally find the 22LR more versatile, having shot a lot of both LR & Mag)
    2) The stacking of rim-fire cartages is an “Absolute Marvel”. Wake up Kel-Tec!
    There is a whole market out there for your inovvations > EXPAND YOUR LINE…..
    This ability to put so many rounds into a small area will revolutionize rim-fire pistols and rifles.

    I want one!!!
    And will get one.
    But I may wait for the .22LR or a longer barreled .22mag.

  46. When will Kel_Tec release this pistol? I see 2 Quarter 2010 but companies starting Fical Year vary. Some start in Jan, others in April, etc…

  47. .22 WMR has four times as much powder, but it’s rifle cartridge powder, slow burning, and from a pistol a LOT of the powder burns outside the barrel.

    Makes a heck of a lot of noise. Big boom. I like it. I bought a Taurus .22 wmr revolver with 4″ barrel, straightest shooting pistol I have, great noise and muzzle blast, seems like a much bigger gun… but bullet speed with 40 grains can’t be much over supersonic.

    that’s okay with me.. beats a .22 LR from the same gun, but NOT BY MUCH, because .22 LR has most of its powder burned before exiting the barrel. Less powder but much more efficient in a pistol than the .22 magnum.

    .22 magnum loses lots of its extra kick when used from pistol barrel. Still superior to .22 LR but probably not 1/3 faster like it is in a rifle. probably 1/4 faster at best.

    All that said, I’ll be waiting in line for the PMR 30. I’ve waited instead of buying a High Standard automag because I wanted more rounds and more reliability. This pistol looks like the real deal.. 30 rounds in the fist is just awesome.

  48. Hi, The P-30 is my favorite pistol. I also have been able to find an R-30. I sure do hope that if they make a rifle version of the PMR-30 that they are able to make it easier to clean and reassemble. I don’t know if anyone is familiar with a complete teardown of a R-30 or the P-31, but it is not for the faint of heart. These two rival any firearm that I have ever cleaned as far as take down / assembly is concerned.
    Does anyone know if the early P-30s were made without a fluted chamber? I have one without this feature and didn’t know if it was skipped or just made that way at the time.
    The most fun I have is with the P-30 with the 8 inch threaded barrel and a mount for a Picatinny rail and laser. I thought about how I could make my own mount by replacing the forend part with a rail and still have the recoil spring sleeve keep a spacer place and not allow the slide to go back too far, but when I learned the 8 inch pistol has this made on it already, I wanted one really bad. The muzzle blast is impressive and with 30 rounds it seems to last (at least for a pistol) forever. As an added bonus, I don’t see to many of these around and get more questions at the range than when I take any other gun. These are fun to shoot as well as easy to modify.
    Now if they could make one that also shoots the 22LR, I’d be surprised. I’m speculating at this point, but if you look at the magazine of your Grendel, the bullet tips are resting on each other while the rims of each bullet are fanned out away from each other and divided by a ridge as they are fed inside the magazine. A really neat trick, but can it be done with a much shorter round? I couldn’t guess.
    I’ll be the on the lookout for PMR-30 and can’t wait to get one.
    Keep shootin’

  49. Okay, here are the ballistics numbers for a .22 magnum versus a .22 lr out of a NAA revolver with a 1 1/8 inch barrel:

    CCI Maxi Mag 30 gr. hollowpoint – 1062 fps. – 75.11 ft./lbs. energy
    CCI Stinger 32 gr. hollowpoint – 788 fps. – 44.11 ft./lbs. energy
    Federal Classic 31 gr. hollowpoint – 816 fps. – 45.82 ft./lbs. energy

    As I pointed out earlier, the same benefits you’d see from a rifle also pertain to a pistol. Why there’d be a difference in the percent benefit, I haven’t a clue; but again, the velocity of the long rifle round is about 75% that of the magnum round… even in a pistol with a barrel as short as 1 1/8 inches. In fact, the 788 fps. of the CCI long rifle round is exactly .7412 of the 1062 fps. velocity of the CCI magnum round out of the same gun. The 816 fps. one would get from the Federal long rifle round is .7684 of the 1062 fps. of the magnum round. So, my 75% estimate seems to be pretty accurate. Additionally, the difference in energy numbers is quite significant. Above, I projected that the 40 gr. rounds’ coming out of a pistol like the Kel-tec would deliver energy numbers of 134 ft./lbs. for the magnum compared to only 75 ft./lbs. for the long rifle. That would translate to the long rifle round only delivering 56% of the energy of the magnum round. If you look at the energy numbers above, they seem to bear that out and say the exact same thing. Out of the exact same gun with a 1 1/8 inch barrel, a magnum delivers 75 ft./lbs. of energy, while a long rifle only delivers around 45 ft./lbs. of energy. The difference? 59-60%. The long rifle round only delivers 60% of the energy that the magnum round does.

  50. Have 3 Grendel P30’s Lots of mags too. Only shot one. Bought a lot of spaire parts when I saw how scarce they were becomming. If you have spaire safty, file it down a bit so it won’t dig into hand. Or use your thum on the other side. That way you will always no if it’s on or off. SHOOTING IT. Shot about 300 rounds, no jams, no stove pipes, took it home, left it. Weeks later did it again. Got to about 280 rounds and it failed. Hammer would not lock back. Took it apart, could not get it reassembled. Hammer would not stay back. Gun was so much fun. I had to figure it out. Solution, Wait for it. CLEAN IT. When you got it apart look real good at how it works. What holds the hammer back. Parts and springs are NOT very robust. Dirt between side wall and hammer latch will stop it. The hammer will go back. But, spring is not heavy enough to bring the hammer catch back up. Lay in pan spray with carb cleaner use tooth brush. Fire off another 500 rounds. As for the PMR-30 I am getting two ASP.

  51. My prayers have been answered… I am a huge fan of the 22mag and have been waiting an auto-pistol that works. The Auto-mag (I still own) is better at pounding nails with the grip than shooting at them. I like a gun that can drive a nail and the 22mag can do it. I will be the first at my club with one!
    Rod W

  52. Well I sold many of the P-30’s back in the 90s. Many had to be sent back as they would often fail to extract or stove pipe(many had to have the recievers replaced……excessive jamming with all brands of .22 mag. They eventually fixed most of the problems but then went out of business. I also owned the P-12 .380….now that was a superb DAO backup handgun, always fired and never jammed. I hope the PMR-30 is as relieble as the P-12.

  53. Has anyone been able to PRE-Order the PMR-30 yet? If so, what was the quoted price? Don’t want to spend over 400.00 for a 22mag.

  54. Have one on order at my dealer when they are released would like to see one made in 17 cal or a barrel made for the PMR-30 in 17 cal.

  55. I live up in northern Wisconsin and carry a sr9 bowhunting. The biggest reason I bought it was because of the wolf population up here. I looked at the amt automag and for the price just couldn’t do it. The kel-tec although I don’t know much about the gun I do know the 22mag round. And yes I have taken that round up against bear before. Great gun great ammo gotta have one. Placed right it’ll stop anything with one shot. With 30 rounds. Hell just shoot.

  56. I live up in northern Wisconsin and carry a sr9 bowhunting. The biggest reason I bought it was because of the wolf population up here. I looked at the amt automag and for the price just couldn’t do it. The kel-fec although I don’t know much about the gun I do know the 22mag round. And yes I have taken that round up against bear before. Great gun great ammo gotta have one. Placed right it’ll stop anything with one shot. With 30 rounds. Hell just shot.


  58. I wouldn’t make an apples-to-oranges comparison of a .22mag from a pistol to a .22lr out of a rifle, but I would question the idea that a 75% effectiveness of a .22lr round compared to a .22mag round in a rifle translates to a 75% effectiveness in a pistol barrel. I would prefer to see some actual chronographed results of comparable-weight bullets. I read that the mag rounds have slower-burning powders. IF that is true, I would think the lr rounds MIGHT pick up a little bit of the performance differences in shorter barrels.

    I would appreciate if someone with a chronograph could provide the results of actual testing from shorter barrels.


  59. Wrong, Mark. You will get the same benefit from a .22 Mag over a .22 LR out of a short barrel that you would get out of a rifle. You have to make the same comparisons. You’re making the same mistake as many readers above. For example, say your 30 grain .22 MAG round (CCI Maxi-mag TNT) has a muzzle velocity of 2200 fps. and 322 ft./lbs. of energy out of a rifle, and a .22 LR round (CCI Stinger) has a muzzle velocity of 1640 fps. and 191 ft./lbs. of energy out of the same rifle. Those same benefits will be seen in the pistol… if you reduce the velocity and energy of the magnum round due to barrel length, you have to do the same for the long rifle round due to barrel length. Out of a rifle, the LR round’s velocity is approximately 75% of the magnum’s velocity; and the energy distributed out of the LR round is only 60% as great as that of the .22 Mag round. So, a .22 LR round out of a similar pistol will only reach 75% of the velocity and 60% of the energy of the .22 Mag round out of the same pistol. Why guys keep thinking they can compare the performance of a .22 mag round out of a pistol to the performance of a .22 LR round out of a rifle, and then say there isn’t much difference in the 2 rounds baffles me. Of course there isn’t much difference, you’re not comparing the rounds equitably… a longer barrel always equals greater performance.

    In this case, they’re quoting a muzzle velocity of 1230 fps. with a 40 grain magnum round. Since it’s established that a LR round only reaches 75% of a Mag. round out of similar length barrels, it’s safe to assume that all one could expect out of a LR round, in terms of velocity, is around 922 fps. in a gun like this. Using the equation for ammunition energy, a 40 grain Magnum bullet fired at a velocity of 1230 fps. will deliver 134.34 ft./lbs. of energy. A 40 grain LR bullet fired at a velocity of 922 fps. will only deliver 75.48 ft./lbs. of energy. That’s 134 to 75 ft./lbs. of energy, and a huge benefit, imho. The energy delivered to the target from a .22 magnum is almost twice as great as that from a .22 LR. If that’s the “no advantage fact” you’re referring to, perhaps I need a new dictionary with a better definition of “advantage”.

    As for the Kel-tec gun, it’s really an amazing engineering feat to get one that works well, as past efforts almost always resulted in guns that jammed, didn’t eject, or didn’t feed properly. I owned AMT versions of the .22 Automag, and they were always hit or miss on whether or not you got a reliable one. Hi-Standard is reproducing them, and is supposed to have improved the reliability; but when they first re-introduced them, they were selling them for $600. Their price list now says $845 for the exact same gun. If Kel-tec’s gun is reliable, and anywhere near the $400 mark, I’m buying one for sure… and it’ll make a great self-defense weapon for those unable to sling heavy lead.

  60. for the record the 22 mag is a great caliber. It has when shot fom a 20 in barrel almost the same energy at a 38 special. And causes much more internal damage due to interior deflection. and 30 round in the palm of your hand whats not to like. I would like to see a 8″ barrel model with a treaded end like to grendel. This is i am sure to test the waters. and more options will come later. It is a fact sad to say but the 22 mag has no advantage over the 22lr in this short of a barrel. the ammmo cost more and it will be very loud… make a longer barrel guys. thanks for bringing back the p30 now we need the p-31,r30 etc. note my only problem with the gun that i can see some good adjustable sights on it or make it so i can.

  61. Too bad it will not be available for sale in Maryland because of the 30-round magazine. And I don’t see them making it to the list of approved handguns in Maryland either 🙁

  62. I GET THEM RIGHT AFTER THE SHOT SHOW IN LATE JANUARY. I am getting 3, maybe 4 after as I am a small business but even the big guys will be lucky to get 10. After that, they will be out waiting for Kel Tec to catch up. History shows that one. Send me an note and we can set something up for you Bob.

  63. Paul, wake up! If one is a shooter, my wife would take a head shot with a 22. So that is a very effective CC weapon. Now 30 rounds of 22MAG…it most certainly will kill an East Coast 200lb bear. It will kill any man if needed. Even as most people only shoot center of mass, with all things going their way, using their strong hand, in a proper and supported stance, instead make it habitual to make a head shot in unusual positions. Murphy’s Law is always there to knock you down. .45 not too heavy for me but wearing certain clothes or on Federal Land, a .22 will do us fine, put 30 rounds in it…..@#*! The 22 round has been used in hundreds of assassinations because it was known how to use it. 30 rounds spewing out at anything from a PMR will destroy it. Do the math.

  64. I’m liking this pistol so far.

    Before jumping all over the ballistics, some folks need to take into account the effect of firing from a 4.3″ bbl on both rounds. Compare apples to apples.

    While many want to take exception to a .22 for self-defense, they should recognize that many people can’t fire 9’s, .38’s or even .32’s without pain which can eliminate second shots and reduces control of even the first shot. Additionally, consider how many more people will use this as a starter pistol which increases numbers and provides more likelihood of practice to develop proficiency. Many of us started with .380’s and 9’s before progressing to .40’s and .45’s, so it also provides a new option as an entry-level firearm which can be the first step.

    30 rounds of .22 Mag beats the heck out of harsh language and shouted expletives. Two magazines gives you some distinct possibilities for home defense as well.

  65. For everyone that has doubts go shoot a sub2000 or p3at or pf11 waiting on a 308 and now this I will be one of the first to purchase Kel-Tec did it again

  66. Well, its about time, have a P 30 and love it. When can we expect a carbine?? Thirty rounds of 22 mag is a lot of firepower and very controllable. Can’t wait to get my hands on one.

  67. I have a Heritage Arms Rough Rider and I prefer shooting it with the WMR cylinder loaded up as opposed to standard .22lr. My only problem has been that when it comes to plinking, I’m a hi-cap mag lover. It will go nicely along side my Ruger SR9 and Charger pistol. I was getting afraid that people didn’t come up with good ideas anymore.

  68. I love Kel-Tec But I think this one will be a flopp. In any other caliber may be but the .22 mag is on the ESL the way it is try one in 5.7X28 mm.
    PLR’s are my favorite I ran 90 rounds though mine last night and as always without a hitch. I would love a PLR-FiveSeven.

  69. Well I for one am very interested in this new pistol. I have used an old mossberg 22mag bolt action on ground hogs for years, and aside from the Auto mag, there really wasn’t a caliber compatible side arm to carry with. I am thrilled that Kel Tec has designed this particular handgun. I would carry it with my CCW anywhere I went, yes, not near the hitting power of a 9 or a .45, both of wich I have shot for many years in the military. That being said…that was the great thing about the M-16, it’s basically a 22, but has 30 rounds to puke down range. Personal defense to me is no different, to get into a fire fight? certainly not, but to have the potential to have 30 rounds to puke down range if you needed it, and not have to change magazines? that’s pretty cool to me. Trust me from experience in Iraq, 30 rounds coming at you? it’s time to drop flop and roll.

  70. Wow CCO, I’m excited about this pistol too, but a few things in your post seemed a little off, first, the idea of a 22 mag as a defense against bears and second the fact that your wife carries a Walther P22 as a CC weapon.

    I know, the 22 you have with you is a hell of a lot better than the .45 you left at home because it was too heavy, but unless your wife has medical issues she’s ill advised carrying such a small caliber for defense. I’m not going to get into a huge debate on this, and I will say that 22mag would be an improvement for her, but while I fully intend to buy a PMR I *don’t* intend to carry it around to fend off bears and muggers.

  71. I have no idea why people do not like this weapon!! As an FFL, I sell all kinds of guns. Kel Tecs are always in great demand for me. I had just learned about this 22MAG 30 round pistol and I love it!! If you complain that 22mag is too costly to shoot, put your money in a safe fund. Enjoy that 3%!!!! We live in hiker/hunter mountain area that is the most extreme of the Eastern U. S. wether it is a snake, boar, or bear….on the East Coast Smokey Mountains, this is what a liscenced concealed carry owner should take out. I First, it is very light fully loaded. 22MAG ammo can travel twice as fast as 22LR. 2nd, it is mainly for protection while out in the woods and this pistol with 30 rounds of nicely selected ammo, will serve its purpose and more. It looks great, as my wife who carries a Walther P22 as concealed carry, saw it and said it looked big. I told her the capacity of it and she understood perfectly and then thought….wow, that is a great size. She knows the difference of a 25ACP round and the 32ACP round…….then the 32 S&W….so on. We fired all of them and became pure lovers of the 22MAG round. This may be Kel Tecs most successful most popular firearm. Not because it is new, but since it is new in design and caliber. Yes history has made a similar, but not like this! The rail on bottom is not just a rail………it is almost limitless! It is a pistol that will fire easily and accurate. When we are in the “Great White North” I would carry 1 PMR and 1 S&W 500…..she would carry a PMR and a S&W 460. Why use a revolver that is so overpowered but may be needed in extreme situations. The PMR is a very welcome weapon to wherever ou travel or live.

  72. Only 1260 fps?. There are 30 gr 22LR rounds that zip along at more than 1700 fps. Are there 22WMR rounds that have a bit more zip to them to make the PMR-30 a bit more potent?

  73. Seems pointless to me. If you want a plinker, then a .22LR is better (much cheaper to shoot), and if you want a defensive pistol, .22 mag is not a good option. So what’s the purpose of this pistol?



  75. HOT DARN!!!! I’ve been WAITING, Praying & BEGGING Kel-Tec for a .22WMR 😀

    In fact, about 8 months ago I sent them an email about it and they didn’t breathe a WORD of any plans of the PMR-30!

    As long as it cycles as well as my Grendel P-31 & R-31…I’ll be a happy camper 😀

    Next question…are the mags interchangeable with the Grendel mags?? That would be TOTALLY awesome 😀

  76. I have always wanted a company to make a pistol like this in the 22 magnum caliber…I am getting one as soon as I can…..thanks Kel Tec!

    I love the styling. Wonder what the weight will be fully loaded? At 13.6 ozs empty, its really light.

  77. Looks AWESOME!!!! I am already saving my money for one! Love the idea of 30 rounds of potent .22 Magnum. Can’t wait!!!

  78. Lovely caliber. Lovely pistol. If George designed and built it it should work flawlessly. Velocity isn’t much faster than a .22 LR cartridge. It has at least 4 times the powder. It should have better velocity. I will wait to see if a longer barrel comes out on this pistol.

  79. I was joking about you using wikipedia… Sorry to call you out on that. Hopefully it will actually get changed to the correct spelling. But I have tried many times, and there are even links to proof of the correct spelling in the form of tax records linked at wikipedia I believe.

    George doesn’t seem to mind, and it’s an easy mistake to make considering the spelling of the company name.

  80. FYI
    George Kellgren is spelled with 2 L’s….no matter what it says on wikipedia (I have tried to fix it many times).

    The PMR-30 does not use a fluted chamber like the P-30. the hybrid blow-back/locked breach system is unique and accomplished using what is effectively a floating barrel. this allows the barrel to either move with the slide (Like a locked breech) or stay still (like on a blow back). which one happens depends on the pressure inside the case, when the gun fires.

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