Camping & Survival

Jade Helm 15—What if Martial Law Was a Reality?

Mag of Jade Helm 15 military exercise depicting Texas as a "hostile" state

There is a saying here in my great state that I relate to, “I wasn’t born in Texas, but I got here as fast as I could”… and one thing I quickly learned after getting here, was brisket is barbecue, Dublin Dr. Pepper does taste better and in particular, you don’t mess with a Texan and their Blue Bell ice cream. Before I convinced my parents to join me in the Lone Star state, my dad used to tease me about liking another brand better. I always responded, “You can’t be a true Texan if you don’t love Blue Bell!” He has since come to his senses and loves classic Homemade Vanilla just as much as I do and both him and I have carried on the tradition of having a scoop—or three—every night before bed. You’re probably wondering where I’m going with this… Don’t worry, I’m fixin’ to tell y’all…

This story is lighthearted and sweet until it becomes tragic.

On what now has become the darkest day of spring 2015, On April 20, Blue Bell ice cream announced an entire recall of all of its products and immediately pulled all its ice cream off the shelves. Due to findings of the listeria bacteria in the company’s “Scoops” ice cream, Chocolate Chip Country Cookie Sandwiches, Great Divide Bars and Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough Ice Cream, dating back as far as 2010, it was advised to throw out any Blue Bell you had in the freezer, as well as the company voluntary recalled every. Ice cream. Product. Ever. As of this writing, Blue Bell is still off the shelves. (Testing of products in the Alabama factory began in July—meaning, the nightmare will soon be over!) I have jokingly deemed this sad state of affairs “The Summer Without Ice Cream.”

But when I found out that some were theorizing that the shutdown was related to the U.S. Military’s large training operation called Jade Helm 15, the joke wasn’t so funny anymore.

Mag of Jade Helm 15 military exercise depicting Texas as a "hostile" state
In the Jade Helm 15 military exercise, Texas is labeled as “hostile.” Does that sound like “routine training to maintain a high level of readiness for Army Special Operations Forces” to you?

Announced in late March 2015, Operation Jade Helm—which began earlier this week—is a large military training operation which will last about two months involving at least 1,200 troops spanning all branches of the U.S. Armed Forces and at least seven states on private and public lands. The United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) claims they picked the seven states, including Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Utah and Colorado because the terrain in those areas match the types of terrain special forces face in the battlefield, with an emphasis on “overseas” diverse terrain. Though the military issued a press release announcing Operation Jade Helm, the training exercises aren’t completely transparent. When some plans and maps of the operation were made public, many people got speculative of what the training was all about. Texas, Utah and a very small part of Southern California are labeled “hostile” in the map. After reviewing the maps and plans, it isn’t far-fetched to think the military is practicing for what essentially could be martial law or military take-over of our country after a government overthrow or coup or similar massive civil disturbance.

Things became even more suspicious when without warning, Wal-Mart closed five of its stores in Texas, California, Oklahoma and Florida—all states slated for Jade Helm 15 operations—for at least six months due to “plumbing problems,” despite the fact none of the closed stores have filed for permits for construction. Lt. Col. Mark Lastoria, an Army Special Operation Command spokesperson who has fielded questions for months about Jade Helm now says that the Wal-Mart closings were due to labor and pay disputes. Spawned by rumors surrounding the quick closings and possibly from talk show host and Jade Helm 15 conspiracy theorist, Alex Jones, the citizens of Bastrop, Texas increasingly became concerned.

Is the military preparing to take over Texas?

Even Chuck Norris has something to say about it, “What’s under question are those who are pulling the strings at the top of Jade Helm 15 back in Washington. The U.S. government says, ‘It’s just a training exercise.’ But I’m not sure the term ‘just’ has any reference to reality when the government uses it.”

Operation Jade Helm 15 has become such a big deal that Texas Governor Greg Abbott called on the Texas State Guard to monitor Jade Helm operations. In a letter to Major General Gerald “Jake” Betty, Gov. Abbott wrote, “I am directing the Texas State Guard to monitor Operation Jade Helm 15. During the Operation’s eight-week training period from July 2015 to September 2015, I expect to receive regular updates on the progress and safety of the Operation. During the training operation, it is important that Texans know their safety, constitutional rights, private property rights and civil liberties will not be infringed.”

It has also inspired the founder of Defense Techniques Academy to start a group called Counter Jade Helm. The group, who reiterates their support for the United States Military, will be watching and reporting on everything members see in relation to Jade Helm. The Counter Jade Helm website says, “Counter Jade Helm, aka CJH, is a training exercise for the people. In response to the military’s multi-state training, called Jade Helm 2015, citizens will participate in an unofficial fashion to practice counter-insurgency, organizational and intelligence gathering and reporting skills…The objective is not to stop or countermand the military’s training, but to practice our own skills.”

In other words, if you want to practice, assess or improve your bug-out or survival skills, Operation Jade Helm 15 is the perfect opportunity.

Soldiers standing by white buses
Is the military preparing to take over Texas? (Photo taken in Ferguson, MO during riots.)

Martial Law

Is it crazy to think that the government is training for nationwide martial law? According to Stars and Stripes, Lt. Col, Lastoria says, “This exercise is routine training to maintain a high level of readiness for Army Special Operations Forces because they must be ready to support potential missions anywhere in the world on a moment’s notice.” It is safe to assume our country’s military does in fact have a plan if Congress or the President declared Martial Law. After all, it is the military’s responsibility to be in charge during Martial Law.

The legal dictionary defines Martial Law as “The exercise of government and control by military authorities over the civilian population of a designated territory.” During Martial Law, citizens can be stripped of their basic civil rights and civil liberties, including Habeas Corpus, freedom from unreasonable search and seizure, as well as the freedom of movement. Only Congress, the President or a state Governor can declare Martial Law. In the history of the United States, it has only happened on a national level once during the Civil War. However, local authorities have declared Martial Law numerous times, including after the San Francisco earthquake in 1906, during the 1914 Colorado Coalfield War, the entire state of Hawaii from 1941 to 1944, Alabama in 1961 and in 2005 during Hurricane Katrina. During Martial Law, there is the possibility of mandatory rationing of food, gas and other essential supplies and services, confiscation of firearms, ammo and other weapons, and forced relocations, curfews or lock-ins.

I don’t see much hope in this frightening scenario. If you are forced to leave with only the clothes on your back—good luck. Or perhaps you are lucky enough to have an excluded and extremely secure location you can bug-out to in anticipation. If bugging-in is the only option, not only do you need to have plenty of long-term food, drinking water and survival supplies stored, but a high level of OpSpec skills.

Now is the time to ask yourself these questions:

  • How secure and fortified is your house?
  • Do you have a ham radio or other form of alternative communication plan to talk with other patriots?
  • Could you survive completely under the radar?
  • Are you too open about your preps?
  • Do you have a secured/hidden location for water, food and other supplies?
  • Do you pay for everything on credit card or cash?
  • How self-reliant can you be with your current preps?
  • Do you live in a state where your firearms must be registered? Remember that in many states it is legal to buy from an individual without filling out a Form 4473.
Hurricane Katrina survivors
Do your preps include a plan on what you and your family will do during Martial Law? (Photo taken during Hurricane Katrina)

Preparing for Martial Law is scary and difficult. Even the greatest survival experts don’t have much to offer except for elaborations on making sure you have all the above suggestions covered. I wish I could close this article out on a high note, but I can’t. I haven’t quite reached for my tin foil hat yet, but I’m definitely taking this time to monitor my surroundings, pay close attention, and take stock of all my survival inventory to see where I’m lacking and how I can improve.

What is your take on Jade Helm? Are you preparing for Martial Law? Share your theories, thoughts and suggestions in the comment section.

[suzanne]

The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt!'s blog, The Shooter's Log, is to provide information—not opinions—to our customers and the shooting community. We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. The information provided here does not represent the views of Cheaper Than Dirt!

Comments (385)

  1. Honestly, I see a U.S.” Unconstitutional” Martial Law going down much like the War in Iraq…Specifically, U.S. Forces would quickly garner control of all major Cities an points of important infrastructure. However, when said forces subsequently disperse throughout the States into Rural America and or States not particularly “fond” of the Feds like, for example, Montana, Wyoming, Texas etc. they would quickly stall out and once again fall victim to a battle of attrition…The old expression about history repeating itself…I’ll close by saying this, I pray to God Above that such an “Hell of Earth” scenario ever takes place (not even in film or book fiction–it’s simply too ugly a thought to profit about).

  2. The Vietnamese had generations of preparations, We would be where they started centuries before we arrived. And we relied on technology while they relied on determination and patriotism.

  3. Yeah, Richard, it’s some space alien conspiracy, as every government on the planet lacks the money and corporations lack the money as well.
    After all, “they’re all on the take”, that takes pretty much all of the money in the world to buy off local through national governmental leaders.

    Rather than what it really is, a military exercise that has resulted in precisely zero roundups, zero gun grabs, zero civilian harassment.
    Never choose malice to that which could be more easily explained as innocuous actions.
    Especially considering how heavily armed the populace is. 300 million firearms in civilian hands, most civilians having only a few means a hundred million gun owners at a minimum.
    All of the armies in the world aren’t big enough to collect that much from that many.

  4. Honestly, 2 paragraphs about ice cream that in no way related to the article, little facts about jade helm, no information about the closed Walmarts, this was one of the worst articles I have ever read…

    1. We had a 1/2 Million men in the little country Viet Nan and We still got our tails kicked. Does anyone really believe that Martial Law can really control a space as big as Texas at alone the whole U.S.??

    2. You are missing the point on Jade Helm. It is test case for future martial law plans. And by martial law I don’t consider it being anywhere close to Vietnam. Martial law as it will be used will control the banks, power grid, roadways, internet, satellite communications, and most ever service required for human existence. They won’t have to fight guerrilla warfare because the state or country would be crippled by the above mentioned controls. That is why Texas was their first choice, to show us rednecks what the government can do with unlimited authority. Our state and US congresses are all part of the scam, they let the government get away with all this BS because they all profit from it in some way or another. Until we gut congress and the state reps, this will not end with Obama etc. Each of those in the US congress, white house, judicial branch are on the take from some outside corp or government and will not change their minds until we send all of them to jail.

    3. We vets learned a lot from the Yards. They hardly knew about money let alone banks or electronic comm. Real West Texas cowboys haven’t changed their basics survival instincts in many years.
      Large ranches can survive without all the goodies that the new generation would cry if they lost. Some people have become so used to having those goodies available to them, they break down it they were taken away.. If you were used to not having them as a kid, then no big deal if you don’t have them now.
      People should not be lazy. Cut the firewood,fill the oil lamps, and take the effort to saddle ole Betsy and leave that convenient gasoline sucking limo out in the pasture. Texas cowboys have been preppers and survivors for many ages. Spoiled brats should go cry on someone else’s shoulder.
      Some of us were smart enough to think about the current situation decades ago..

    4. The most important thing anyone should have taken with them (other than the crude hand crafted crossbow gifted to me from a grateful old “Yard”) is that they were perfectly happy before we got there and they were some very dangerous folks when their peace and quiet was trifled with, much like the mountain folks in Ky, the Virginias,Tn and others right here in the U.S. I’m very proud to have had the opportunity to work with them and really glad they were on our side The old crossbow is pretty much useless now, but some professional attention to maybe pressure treat it to limber it up and a restring might give it some bit of life at close range, but it looks cool just hanging on the wall in my man cave.

    5. That is pretty much my intent for the crossbow but the comment concerning the silly little statement was intended for Viet Vets 1/2 million men getting their butts kicked…

    6. We were warned by France not to go in after they had been handed their hats. Then, once we were in, we were betrayed by our own leadership and the media. Not that we would really have won anyway, but….

      During Tet 1968, the north had an estimated 355,000 forces in the south, of which 55,000 were NVA regulars and the rest were VC. The NVA had a mission, but the VC had motivation lacked by approximately 400,000 US Forces.. We are faced with the same drive in the middle east today. People who have no problem dying for the “cause” in their own countries, compared to US Forces far from home and lacking long term motivation to fight.

      The Vietnam War might be compared to the Revolutionary War in that communist forces hid behind rocks and trees while US forces marched in a straight line, just as colonists hid behind fences and trees and the British marched in a straight line. In both cases, the ones who did not play by gentlemen’s rules, won.

    7. Seems to me, as big as Texas is, the Soviet Union (remember the Berlin Wall?), North Korea, China, could all be examples of places where “martial law” has kept a population greater than the size of the force under pretty strict control for a very long time. German during WW2 would also fit.

      Were each of them 100% effective? Of course not. However, it was enough to prevent the people from rising up and over-throwing those governments. And, given enough time and control bolstered by heavy doses of propaganda and government speak and the people accept their lot in life. In North Korea, the people essentially prayed to their leader for the food they ate, and even when foreign doctors came and gave them back their eyesight.

    8. That silly little statement is so wrong on so many levels that I really don’t know how to respond first so how about, you have to live with that belief and several hundreds of thousands of fighting men (with their azzes perfectly intact and unkicked) would vigorously disagree with you.

  5. Texas Tea, don’t give up. There MUST be many bad people out there just waiting for dark.
    Don’t be embarrassed if nothing happens…you were ready…I’m not sure what for but as our forefathers fathers said, “Eternal vigilance is the price of Liberty”.And we all know that there’s another band of commies, Mexicans, whatever, really bad guys of some sort just waiting to get us,
    Keep your powder dry.

    1. Considering the growth of gangs and organized criminals in this country, plus our own government gone off the reservation, Jade Helm might best be applied to cleaning up our cities.

  6. As of today we’re fifteen days into JH-15. What are the reports from the field? Any problems popping up? Any violations of citizen rights? Any destruction of property? Any improper activity? Surely with the number of folks who are scared about what our government is doing, there should be some kind of intel going on. Surely we’re not all just waiting until a Humvee rolls up to our front door and demands our guns… are we? If you live in or near the communities where JH-15 is being conducted, tell us what you see. Let’s get informed with facts, not conjecture.

  7. Like many others, I to ask the questions that so many of you are asking. Why should the military want to use public lands to train? First and foremost, government lands are better to train on because they can keep the types of training undisclosed to prying eyes. After serving over twenty years in the United States Marine Corps. I found out that the military land mass is more then I had ever dreamed. The difference between climates and terrain are those of just about any country in the world. They have the Mojave Desert, 29 Palms, and the complete White Sands to practice desert warfare. There is plenty of Base Housing at all of the military bases across the country to practice residential warfare. There is Mountain Home for high altitude and winter training. There is the swamps in Camp Lejeune N.C. and the hills of Camp Pendleton. So with all of that, why are they training on citizens and private property? It’s not like our government and this Administration has ever lied to the American people is it? Preppers be ready.

  8. That still doesn’t explain the permanent installation, with guard towers, walls, large defensive perimeter, etc at /Camp As Sayliyah.
    By the common definition, it should be a fort.
    Meanwhile, places like Fort Indiantown Gap, Fort Meade and others have no fortifications, the extent for their perimeters are a fence at most.
    I’m speaking of when FIG was still an active Army installation, of course.

  9. Fort vs Camp

    Generally, the difference between the them refers to infrastructure and permanence at the time the base was established. A Fort was a fortified, larger, and more permanent base. A Camp was smaller, with more flexibility.

    An example might be seen in the US Cavalry. The headquarters were housed in forts with permanent or semi-permanent defensive structures and sentries on duty 24/7. Sub-units, which were often patrolling zones around the fort, set up temporary camps when the bivouacked, and posted sentries for initial defense. Defenses of camps were primarily the layout of wagons, horses, tents, and posted sentries.

    In past times the terms have changed in meaning. In modern times BRAC has combined installations of the services leading to changes in the meanings. For example Ft Lewis and McChord AFB have been combined to be the Joint Base Lewis-McChord, Wash.

  10. True the Boston bomber was taken to an undisclosed federal location. Some refer to them as FEMA detention centers or camps. Fort Ord is now a detention camp. So you never hear of Rex 84 later on was nicknamed T Rex, or Garden Plot. In or about 1970 the feds and military started housing orientals in detention camps to stop the communist influence in this country. You can call it mythical, if you like. On the realization part there is more than one Gitmo type facility.

  11. @Thor, fair enough, although not all camps ever become named fort.
    I spent a significant amount of time at Camp As Sayliyah.
    I never did figure out when they decide, upon what parameters, when to rename a camp into a fort.
    Even money, there’s a circular defining that very subject.

  12. Government forces can act on public lands. An example was the construction of the AL-CAN Hwy. Nobody complained about that.

    During WW2, US Forces patrolled American coastlines. Gun emplacements were constructed along the west coast. Not just around SF Bay, LA, etc, but along the cliffs overlooking the ocean.

    1. Yes, DaveW… You said it yourself… DURING

      Even though Afghanistan / Iraq are the next Korea in terms of we will be there forever, there is no active reason for there to be Jade Helm outside bases…

      The Special Ops community has everything they need in their own locales, they haven’t trained outside in such a large scale, and it’s not because Kim Krispy Kreme Jong You be Illin or Putin is planning an attack…

      Every other country knows we can turn them into a parking lot… This is a Psychological misinformation / disinformation campaign, and I bet it’s to gather intel on HOW Americans in general would feel about it…

      It’s called LPOP… They are doing Psychological recon…

    2. Mitch… You may not have noticed, but we ARE at war and on our own soil, as well as around the world. This is not a new kind of war, but it is conducted on a much larger scale for it’s format.

      This requires new thinking and new tactics if we ever hope to defeat it. Unfortunately, our leadership seems bent on seeing to our destruction.

      After every war period, the military enters what we call a drawdown and training period. The men and women who remain must training for the day when we enter into another war in order to prepare the influx of untrained people in the shortest period of time (the buildup). One of the major objectives of training, as it appears you realize, it for the armed forces to identify deficiencies and to correct them before the next fight.

      During my 21+ year tenure, I participated in many exercises and operations, large and small. None of them turned out to be aimed at enslaving the people.

      That said, this may be the exception, though I think not. We have never had leadership like the present one. While we have been hearing the same accusations made from the left and the right. The left claimed that Cheney was building internment camps all over the place. Today, it’s the right and Jade Helm. This administration seems bent on defanging the military, dividing the people. I hope I’m wrong about that but as a warrior I have never felt this disillusioned about my own government.

      In Vietnam, there were times when I had to lay in the brush, silently and still, waiting and watching. I am doing so today.

  13. Kenneth, the US Constitution forbids quartering troops in civilian homes against the wishes of the owner or occupant and without compensation if a fee is requested.
    With permission, federal troops can train on private property. Traditionally, public lands can be used, usually upon the invitation or request of a local government. I recall a reserve combat engineer unit training in Pennsylvania game lands, by the request of the state, as people were falling into mine shafts and getting lost in deep mines. The engineers proceeded to use high explosives to block those designated entrances and perform their military training in that area.

    Now, what is prohibited by the Posse Comitatus Act is for the US Army and US Air Force to act in a police capacity while the civilian courts are in session and no state of emergency is present. There is no such state of emergency, the state, county and local governments are in control and the courts are in session.

    Now, consider that there are 1200 personnel involved, counting support personnel. How do they manage to take over an entire state or even a county without utilizing magic?
    1200 men is a support battalion and a 200 or so possible operator force.
    It’s likely that the support unit is a battalion from the 160th SOAR, which would be The Night Stalkers special operations aviation Regiment.
    That battalion would have helicopters, maintenance for the helicopters and weapons systems on the helicopters, air crews for the helicopters, truck drivers, truck mechanics, aviation mechanics, electronics technicians, cooks, medics, command staff, etc.

    To be honest, if I had property in their area of operations, I’d let them train on it.

  14. Question. Is it legal, under the US Constitution, for any service to conduct any training on public and/or private property during peacetime? I thought the US Constitution forbade this practice.

    Requesting a legal response.

    Kenneth R. Price

  15. Perhaps Jade Helm is being conducted because POTUS has reduced the capabilities of the armed forces to fight wars the old way. The services need to train together more. Back when I was in, only specialized units of the different services trained together. Maybe we are headed for what Canada has with the Tri-Service concept. It’s a brave new world and a lot of things do not make sense today.

  16. I don’t consider myself a conspiracy theorist. However, having analyzed this whole situation with Jade Helm, I have a few questions: 1. This is the largest military training on the US soil. Why now? Both wars are over, why now? 2. The US government is the single largest land owner in the USA. It owns millions of acres. Why did they choose private lands? Why didn’t they train on their own property? 3. They say TX, AZ, NM, CA, etc. remind them of Afgh, Iraq, etc. (do they really? unlikely…) Since the wars are over, why do we care about these countries? We’re not fighting ISIS. why? why? why? So many questions, but the answers are not making sense. And lastly, when the martial law is announced, how are we supposed to use our guns? Won’t they be confiscated like in LA during Katrina? So, what about the US Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc.? Down the drain? Doesn’t it kind of kill the retoric “Get more guns and ammo to survive the appocalypse”?

  17. I lived so far north in Maine that we went south to enter Canada. It was a great place though. Summer was on a Tuesday. lol

  18. @Joe, ” This means a US citizen on US soil can be detained for various reasons and removed to one of of the detention camps inside the US for an indefinite period.”

    No, that is not what the law says or does and there are no detention camps inside of the US.
    Those abroad can be captured, if engaging US forces in hostile action. Those within can be detained and charged, but can only be arrested by civilian authorities and they must face the courts.
    That change was signed into law in 2011, coming into effect in 2012.
    Case in point, the Boston Marathon Bombing occurred in 2013 and the sole surviving perpetrator wasn’t taken to a mythical camp, but placed into prison for holding until his trial, which recently completed.
    Several other terror cases also undermine your incorrect theory.

    1. Wzrd1–I believe you will find that truth is that the lone survivor of the Boston event is that he was taken to a federal location west of Boston that is, in fact, a former military installation that has all of the buildings that would make it a “camp”. Army installations used to be called camps and then became called forts. The one in question was called Camp Devens many, many years ago and then changed to Fort Devens. Not saying it was ever the mythical camp you refer to but the facts are it formerly was officially a “camp” and never a prison. Just so you know!

  19. @Boredgimp, considering your tirade had nothing whatsoever of substance, but remained at the ad hominem level, I seriously considered not responding to you.
    But, you questioned my supporting Obama on some things, criticizing him in others, that is the *duty* of a citizen. Not to blindly support or blindly criticizing a POTUS.
    As for “where you work”, I was responding to Joe, you’ve interjected yourself into a conversation that you appear to comprehend nothing of.
    As for the remainder of your ranting tirade, I’ll not further comment, you’ve embarrassed yourself far more than I could and honestly, I don’t try to pick on the disabled, I usually try to help them.

  20. I feel flattered that you noted so many details, Joe.
    I utilize all of those products and contribute to them for my client organizations. I’ve even authored a number of such notices.
    In the military, we collected intelligence and fed it back to our command as well. We also used ELINT intelligence, imagery intelligence and informants.
    Now, any question you offered has escaped my memory, but I do recall answering you in regards to NGB regulations guiding NG forces when called by their governor, another state’s request and the difference in those regulations when police powers are lost on federal duty.
    I also recall answering federal duty restoring order.
    I’ve even served with deployed NG soldiers when also deployed abroad and some from Pennsylvania had mentioned being requested and responding to assist the recovery from Katrina in the New Orleans region. That last I didn’t mention previously.
    Today, I’m retired from things military and I operate a SOC for various governmental agencies.

  21. FYI: Military Times, of 23 July 2015.

    The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004, has been Amended to include ALL Uniformed Military Service Personnel. To and from Home/Workplace and Off-Duty (Plain Clothed) in ALL 50 States and the District of Columbia. Unfortunately it doesn’t cover ANY of the US Held Territories and US Protectorates…

    1. @ Secundius,

      Hold on there. The way you wrote that gives the impression LEOSA (the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act) applies to all military service personnel. It does NOT.

      LEOSA only applies to Law Enforcement certified personnel with 10 or more years as an officer with arrest / apprehension authority. This ACT was amended in 2010 to include military personnel with the same 10+ years of law enforcement authority, e.g., military police.

      Just being in the military is not a qualification and I just wanted to clarify that for you.

      Also, LEOSA covers retired military and civilian LEAs that can prove 10 or more years in a law enforcement capacity as well.

      And finally, LEOSA authority does extend to all 50 States, Washington D.C. and all U.S. Possessions which of course includes Territories.

  22. What has this forum come to? How low can it sink? After repeated snipes back and forth, I am saddened by a once great source of firearms information having sunk to the level of Fox vs MSN.

  23. Wzrd1 thanks I have already read that. Here is the thing. People get in an uproar over military acting in a law enforcement capacity. Agreed the military does not want to get involved with all the bullsh!@ the cops put up. That is why there will always be some form the Posse Comitatas Act. Deputizing military or those transfered to a NG status only makes those individuals operate with the constraints of the 4th & 5th Amendment, and the 48 to 72 hour detention guidelines. It makes those in this status operate in the area of probable cause.

    The military can detain an individual for an indefinite period without probable cause. In 1970 it was referred to as “disappearances.” Obama reenforced this with National Defense Act. This means a US citizen on US soil can be detained for various reasons and removed to one of of the detention camps inside the US for an indefinite period.

    In the past there have been many violations of the Posse Comitatus Act and work a rounds. This normally occurred with military personnel in an undercover sting operation working with law enforcement. The court has overlooked the violation, because the violation was to insure the Constitutional Rights of the individual/s were protected during the investigation, arrest and prosecution.

    It’s like pick your poison.

  24. Suzanne, lovely Cherokee lady, I had hoped you’d pick up the humorous tone of my comment. As for moving further south, my wife and I live in coastal Maine, which has been pleasantly cool this summer. Last winter was a nightmare. I’ve since acquired a Jeep that’ll have studded winter wheels come snow and ice season. Even so, lots better than the South’s withering heat — at least for me.

    1. Hi Mike,
      Thank you for reading and your comment.
      You and Paul are not the only ones who pointed out my misspelling of “y’all.” I have changed it now and sincerely apologize.
      I was born in Oklahoma (I’m Cherokee), moved to Northwest, Arkansas when I was five, then spent quite a bit of time overseas and at 21, moved to Texas. If I ever leave Texas, it will only be to move even further south!

  25. Boredgimp, you’re quite the perfect example of the Internet viper who reduces these exchanges to verbal abuse. Your tone is gross and your command of the language scarcely better.

  26. Sadl, the rights you cite no longer exist as the Founders intended them. The Rights “guaranteed” by the Constitution are only guaranteed by those willing to stand and assure it is enforced by force of arms if necessary. You can only keep what you can defend. Unfortunately, those rights are continuously being eroded as we have seen over the past 7 years, and this has been on-going since the National Firearms Act was passed, and before that since the beginning of the nation. Such is the nature of governments. This trend has greatly increased in rapidity since FDR to the present. It will continue until some act of government tips the balance of the scales and the people rise up.

  27. @fswaster, first, martial law is indeed Constitutional when there is a major disaster, war within the United States or when the civilian government is incapable of operating and the courts cannot hold session.
    Those are the only times it is permitted, as it is for continuty of government and for the welfare of the populace.
    Enumerated and non-enumerated rights can indeed be taken away – by a Constitutional amendment. That is so damnably hard to achieve that there are over a half dozen amendments that never were ratified.
    We are the deciding body on who represents us in our government, we do not rule, as that would be inefficient and require a popular vote for any routine matter of government.
    But, God didn’t grant us squat, our Constitution grants us our rights, powers and privileges. That Constitution required a war, false start and hard work to create.

  28. Hey Suzanne, were you really raised in the south? The contraction for “YOU ALL” is not “YA’LL”‘ it’s “Y’ALL”.

    BTW, I live in Alabama and will be first in line for BLUE BELL!

  29. Well I thought you stated you worked in com intelligence. Could be a mistake on my part. So your are a Special Forces Medic. Well I have 20 mos. My primary mos PMOS is 11B2T. Have a good day.

  30. Please be advised that the comments I made about G man to you were incorrect and I mistakenly confused him with someone else we were going at it with a while back. G man is legit and has a good handle on the what he is saying.

  31. OK just set the record straight with Wizrd1 and Joe with following comment:

    Please be advised that the comments I made about G man to you were incorrect and I mistakenly confused him with someone else we were going at it with a while back. G man is legit and has a good handle on what he is saying.

  32. I believe you may be correct so I do offer my apology and will set the record straight with two people, Joe and wiizard1, who I confused you with Beau.

    I do recall you and I being on the same page but I must have confused the names because of the length of time that has passed. Sorry

  33. You conflate state authority with federal authority in regards to the National Guard. Each is separate and different, as was repeatedly explained to you.
    The “special operations group” is a bs term, gleaned from conspiracy theories. *Every* agency has a special operations group of one sort or another, civilian and military. The FBI has the HRT and other special operations groups that handle unique mission requirements of the FBI.
    The CIA has two directorates, the intelligence directorate and the operations directorate. Within each are various special working groups. Some even embed into special operations teams, as part of their mission. That doesn’t make them military, they’re still civilian CIA employees.

    “For someone who claims to have worked for ComSigIntel or ComSigNet military and does not know the intelligence mission statement is disturbing.”

    I have no idea whatinthehell you’re going on about there, my MOS was 18D40, which is decidedly not communications or intelligence.
    That said, some of our missions were intelligence centric, we’ve even had mission specialists embedded in our teams.

    Good night, I have to get back to work and finish up a few things before end of shift.

    1. Please be advised that the comments I made about G man to you were incorrect and I mistakenly confused him with someone else we were going at it with a while back. G man is legit and has a good handle on the what he is saying.

    2. Let me refresh your memory. On July 20 You entered the blog asserting you had some knowledge in the intelligence collection process. That your status with a company. This company had dealings with DCISE (Defense Cyber Ceime Center. DHS (Department of Homeland Security ), and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI through USG building products. That you lived near. Ft. Mead, which is defense information school, and US Cyber Crime Center.

  34. Well Wzrd1 you did quote the Air National Guard 10-208 short version per verbatim. I am not going to do that. NGR 500-5/ANGI 10-802 is 28 pages. dated 2010. Chapter 5 National Guard Domestic Law Enforcement Operations, page 12, para b. The National Guard in a law enforcement support role conducts myriad operations that include: Providing liaison teams, Traffic enforcement, Providing a visible deterrent, Access, traffic and crowd control, Convoy security, High risk personnel security. Para C. May provide direct support in civilian law enforcement activities as searches, seizures and detention when approved by the Governor; Para D. Deputizing National Guard Members in a Tittle 32 Status, Para E. Criminal Investigations, Upon state approval. On page 11, para (d) (6) Apprehension and Detention (this can be permitted in the states RUF)

    By the way when you stated the CIA is civilian operation. Look at the command structure of Special Operations Group besides the generals there is a CIA head.

    Yes I did short form mine also. For someone who claims to have worked for ComSigIntel or ComSigNet military and does not know the intelligence mission statement is disturbing.

    1. Please be advised that the comments I made about G man to you were incorrect and I mistakenly confused him with someone else we were going at it with a while back. G man is legit and has a good handle on the what he is saying.

  35. As NGBR 500-5 says what Gman and I have been saying, I’ll not waste my time reviewing your other claims.

    a. Rules of engagement generally do not apply to National Guard forces conducting domestic law enforcement support missions. National Guard forces follow rules for the use of force instead.

    b. Use of force by members of the National Guard serving in state active duty status or under Title 32 will be governed by state law, usually criminal law. Rules for the use of force will be developed by a state staff judge advocate in accordance with state law. RUF will vary from state-to-state because each state has a unique constitution, laws, and legal opinions on the use of force and how it is to be used. Most rules for the use of force by Title 10 federal forces are based on DOD and Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff promulgations which do not apply to National Guard forces serving in a state status during a National Guard domestic law enforcement support operation.

    c. States that provide National Guard forces serving in state active duty or Title 32 status to another state normally will adopt the rules for the use of force of the supported state while deployed to the supported state. Before deployment, states involved will normally negotiate an agreement on which rules for the use of force the supporting units and forces will follow.

    d. Appearing below are subjects to consider when drafting state RUF for National Guard law enforcement, law enforcement support, or security missions conducted in state active duty or Title 32 status. They are not directive or regulatory by this National Guard Regulation. Consult the state staff judge advocate for the rules for the use of force applicable to your specific National Guard support to civil law enforcement mission. DOD policy and guidance is summarized below to provide a basic understanding of the use of force.

  36. Gman I have posted many references. I will repost. National Guard Regulation 500-5; National Defense Act signed 2012; 2011 Domestic Operations Law Handbook Judge Advocate; Tittle 50 Special Operations Group is a department of CIA Special Activities Division. When you have absorbed those let me know. We can move onto unclassified DOD directives following the Secretary of Defense unilateral authority and mission statement or directives involving the use of asymmetric martial law and military powers.

  37. Martial Law is not supported by the Constitution . The second amendment
    states the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Our rights can not be taken or suspended by any government act . Martial Law would make the government a domestic intruder, and would invoke the clause in the second amendment for the people to defend their rights and liberty from the domestic invader no matter who they say they are. Or what authority they think they have. Don’t for get our Constitution is of the people for the people and buy the the people. The government only has the power we allow it to have ! We the people are the ruling body by virtue of our God given rights with the power to enforce it.

  38. @ G-Man: I have but one question…To which I do not really expect an answer, but here goes: If you are so far up in the FBI, or any other government division…Why are you expounding on such matters which by all rights…You have taken an oath to keep confidential? It’s as if you’ve taken to giving a [Person of Interest] information which would enable him to evade capture….In a manner of speaking…for lack of better definition.
    It appears to me as if there is a conflict of interest… Between you taking an oath and offering information counter to that oath. IF I am missing something here, then correct me…. But no Bullsh!@, Please.
    After 18+yrs in uniform….[Last deployment was GULF 1] and 15yrs in LE, I’ve listened to all the BS I care to hear. A simple straight answer is all I ask.

    WILL.

    1. @ Will,

      First I must say that I am somewhat taken-aback that you didn’t expect me to answer you. Your question is quite reasonable.

      The straight (short) answer is – every single piece of information I have ever imparted to this forum is already accessible to the public domain. It is in no way considered confidential and therefore no oath violated.

      The long answer is – I very much remember back when I first began my careers both as a Federal Agent and in the Military, that I felt as you do now… in so much as the public seemed to know way too much about what we do. I felt betrayed as if there was a leak somewhere.

      But as I progressed in my career the experiences revealed a very important thing and that is… we serve the people. The people have a right to know what their government (by the people and for the people) is up to. Government is supposed to be as transparent as possible.

      That is why the Freedom of Information Act was enacted. As sad as it may seem, that law is really the people saying “Hey government, we know you lie and cover things up, so we are forcing a law upon you to give us the information whenever we ask for it.”

      Granted there are privacy rules and additional laws designed to protect classified and official use information from release; because as you know, certain information in the wrong hands can cause harm to our National Security and personnel. But even that information has a classified expiration date because the public eventually has a right to know.

      So there is a balancing act underway. The government must be held accountable to the people, but if they are always classifying everything as un-releasable information, then that transparency becomes impossible and government would (and does) run amuck of its intended purpose.

      So in closing I will say, it is because I am “so far up” the chain that I am in a better position to know what is releasable and what is not. But more important than that is, unlike so many other government employees that just fall in line like a puppet, I have never forgotten who I serve – and that is you, the public. I would think you should appreciate that I take the time to provide answer you deserve to the information you are already entitled to as a U.S. Citizen.

  39. Dprato I not sure, but it was a waste of time. Yet for me it was a refresher in looking stuff up, and refreshed my memory. In lieu of an act of martial law, I might myself moving stuff out of state or hidden somewhere.

  40. Gman you ideology and perception is not supported or dated. It appears you have a limited learning curve. Thing’s change during time and it appears you can’t see that.

    1. @ Joe,

      Ideology or perception is not what is printed in these laws and regulations. They are pretty straight forward for anyone to read. They regularly serve as user manuals for the laws I must enforce and the procedures I must follow on a daily bases. I’d be out of a job if I failed to stay current.

      The bottom line is you just keep repeating that “things change over time” and paste generic titles or regulations, but you have yet to attempt the simplest remedy of all… try quoting even a single specific page, chapter, and line in any statute or regulation that even comes close to disputing a word I’ve presented.

      The reason you won’t is because you can’t find a single line to post. They just don’t exist. So I don’t know what makes you persist, because you have got to be either incredibly gullible and believe your own BS or you know you’re full of crap and enjoy being the antagonist after they are proven wrong.

      But one thing is certain; you most definitely have no clue as to what you are talking about. When I regularly employ the law in my daily duties I get to know it pretty well. Whereas someone like you instead must quickly Google for information and so you are bound to misinterpret things in your haste to skim for fast answers.

      I have overwhelming established that I know the law while you continue to show how little you really know. If there were minor corrections needed and you appeared more receptive I might continue to indulge you, but you are so far off that now I see there is truly no point in continuing any more dialogue with you.

      I’ll let you have the last word since you so badly need to feel like you know something.

  41. Wzrd1 by 1947 the descendant paramilitary component of OSS was the Special Activities Division Central Intelligence Agency. Documentation does not support your view point nor Gmans. Maybe you should figure out how the military really operates before making any more comments.

  42. Circa 1970… During a period of aircraft hijackings to places like Cuba and the Middle East, USAF Security Police personnel, and possibly Military Police as well though I have nothing to confirm they were, were assigned duties aboard commercial airlines as Sky Marshals, dressed in civilian clothing and equipped with various forms of identification to cover the different locations where they might travel. They were armed with K15-2 S&W revolvers IIRC. Military Police from the USN, USAF, USA, and USMC were assigned to Armed Forces Police Detachments in major cities. I was assigned first to New York City, and then Seattle until the USAF withdrew from participation in 1970.

  43. 50CalAl, spend some time in a country — and there are many — where criticism of the government lands you in jail or landfill. That you can make your claims in a public forum and remain at liberty gives the lie to your paranoid fixation.

  44. Fox News has the highest ratings for the past two years, while MSNBC and others are slipping in the ratings. In repeated polls, more viewers believe they get better balanced reporting from Fox. Unless one believes that all people, liberals, conservatives, etc, who listen to Fox are all evil dupes of the right, then it would seem there is a problem with those who attack Fox and Fox viewers.

    Now, ignoring the conservatives who would be Fox viewers, it would seem that a LOT of independents and even liberals are going to Fox for their sources. Obama and his ilk hate Fox. Why? Because they don’t roll over and condone or ignore his violations of the Constitution. That, in turn, spreads to those who support the liberal agenda…. the Sharpton throngs, the illegals, etc. Yet those who listen to Fox are the paranoid crazies????

    Some time ago, I had occasion to do some research on liberal vs conservative talking heads and liberal sources vs conservative sources. The ratio of liberal to conservative sources is way out of balance. And a lot of liberal sources are, through NPR and PBS, tax supported. I was shocked at who owns the liberal radio stations, liberal television, etc. Unions, the Communist Party (under a lot of different socialist and communist labels). Kerry brokers a deal with Iran for Obama and Kerry is an owner of Al Jazeera, the voice of our enemies in the middle east??? But still we shouldn’t listen to Fox????? What? we should pay more attention to Pravda than Fox?

    Liberal news has been caught manufacturing facts and stories. So has conservative news. What? When liberals do it it’s OK, but if conservatives do it it’s evil?

    Maddow and others, ever day, slant their reporting and OpEds. I don’t just listen to Fox as I am accused of doing. I listen to multiple sources and weigh for myself what seems to make more sense.

  45. Martial law already exists throughout the US. The Bill of Rights is no longer in force. Seriously, what rights do Americans still think they have? The federal government simply does as it pleases. The only real check on its power is a desire to keep the people living under the delusion that they have rights. But in recent years the government seems to be making less of an effort in that respect.

    No laws or rules, including Posse Comitatus and the US Constitution, are worth the paper they’re printed on unless someone is willing and able to enforce them. In particular, there are laws that supposedly protect American civil liberties, but NO ONE is enforcing them. This was supposed to be the job of We the People in accordance with the Second Amendment, but the government’s standing armies and secret police have the population cowering in fear. (The Bundy Ranch stand-off gets an honorable mention, but that was a mouse-fart in an EF5 tornado.)

    Although all US military personnel have taken an oath to protect and defend the US Constitution, they have never upheld this oath; on the contrary, they unquestioningly take orders from the US government, which is the ENEMY of the Constitution. “Our” troops have turned their weapons on Americans several times in our history, and they will do so again if ordered. This is precisely why our Founders didn’t want a standing army separate from the general population. Today Americans not only accept the existence of this standing army, they worship its members as “heroes” for invading foreign lands and killing anyone who resists. I see this as a manifestation of cowardice — the variety that says, “If you can’t beat ’em, join ’em.”

    Thus, with the exception of the Third Amendment, each and every Amendment in the Bill of Rights is egregiously violated daily on an industrial scale by government thugs in the US. I challenge anyone to name a time when the military has prevented an unconstitutional law, such as civil asset forfeiture or gun control, from being enforced. (Anyone who thinks any US war since WWII has had anything to do with “defending freedom” needs to get back on the short bus.)

    So here we are, reduced to living on our knees and begging our masters not to take away any more of our privileges. It’s hard to imagine the situation getting any better, since most Americans don’t even see the prison that’s been erected around us all. “None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.”

  46. @ Joe,

    First I wish to say I do not feel you are trolling. The manner in which you communicate is quite reasonable. However, I must express to you that you are severely misinterpreting what you must be reading.

    I on the other hand am an active Federal agent going into my 33rd year in law enforcement and am also a military reservist with several Active Duty deployments under my belt. I will receive 2 retirements at the end of both careers.

    Having worked my way fairly high up in my position, it is my job to know quite a bit about these joint military, law enforcement, and Intelligence relationships. With the escalation of things since 9/11 I have increasingly led several joint task forces that include military personnel, Intelligence, and equipment support. As well, I’ve sat on many boards in charge of multi-agency joint taskforce Intelligence Fusion Cells and Centers that we developed all over our Nation in response to 9/11.

    My dual law enforcement and military experience has afforded me the unique opportunity to act as an advisor to several Congressmen and Senators as well as many other top heads of agencies. I have made countless written contributions due to my expertise which has helped shape many of the laws since 9/11. And finally, several of my contributions regarding Intelligence matters have been published or landed in the Library of Congress.

    This is the most information I believe I’ve ever revealed about myself in this forum and that is as far as I will go. Some who respond to me have a hard time accepting and understanding why I know so much about the various things I choose to comment on. Others don’t believe that someone so high up would waste time posting as I do in a forum.

    Well, I am a human being too and have hobbies – this is one of my few vices. You won’t find me in very many other forums. I just like this one. Regardless, I still put my pants on the same way anyone else does.

    So in light of this, below I offer official corrections to the many of your misguided comments:

    1.) This is not the 15th Jade Helm. This being the first one, the 15 represents the year.

    2.) Posse Comitatus Act was never repealed and is in full effect.

    3.) Posse Comitatus Act does not apply to the National Guard as they are not Active Duty Title 10. Guardsmen are Title 32, of which, Posse Comitatus does not apply. They are authorized to make arrests under their state’s authority.

    4.) Posse Comitatus Act DOES apply to the National Guard if activated under Title 10.

    5.) Posse Comitatus Act applies to all branches of military service except the U.S. Coast Guard because they do not fall under the military unless requested by the Navy at war time. Otherwise they are DHS.

    6.) Posse Comitatus does not specifically mention the Navy, but it is their written policy to act as if it does.

    7.) There is no CIA “Special Operations Group” involved in Jade Helm 15. Jade Helm is however being run by the U.S. Military’s “Special Operation Command”. Maybe this is your source of confusion?

    8.) “Special Operations Group” is not a name reserved just to the CIA. Other agencies as well as some military units also use it without any affiliation to the CIA.

    9.) There is no such thing called “asymmetric martial law”. Possibly you are confusing it with the actual term known as “asymmetric warfare”.

    Please stop your nonsensical responses given you are arguing with an authority on the matter. Thank you kindly.

    1. OK Gman. Suggest you read National Guard Regulation 500-5, Air Guard Regulation 10-28. You can find it online in PDF format. Then you will realize there has been a lot changes. The regulations govern domestic law enforcement operations of the Guard.

    2. @ Joe,

      Nope. Nothing has changed since the last time I read these regulations. We get update notifications whenever there are changes. I can assure you nothing in them conflicts with anything I’ve stated. So can you please make a point?

  47. Not sure why you even bothered to respond as you did since my comment was not to you and had nothing to do with martial law or detaining anyone. As far as being in opposition to the military or appearing to be so that should never be a problem because I am a major supporter of our men and women in Uniform and contribute liberally to the various organizations that care for our Veterans while the Government ignores them. Perhaps you mixed me up with someone else. However, when I am in opposition to people there is usually little doubt and I have called Obama out directly in emails to the White House. I don’t generally leave any doubt where I stand and whats more if someone doesn’t like then that is too bad.

  48. So, a mythical infantry force were “air marshals”, an event beyond the capability of Google to find.
    Then a “Strike Force” performed “undercover operations”, something else mythical in nature.
    You are flat out full of sh@#! on the SOG, it originated from the OSS, a more competent version of the later CIA.
    The CIA is a civilian organization, per public law and its charter, whereas all special operations are military. The CIA is prohibited by multiple statutes from operating within the US.
    The National Guard, when mobilized for state emergency does have police powers, but lacking jails, they turn prisoners and detainees over to the police. That has been true since the first militias in the colonies and continues today.

    Jade Helm is an operation name, just as Lucifer’s Hammer, Operation Golden Thrust and Operation Beagle were also operation names. Occasionally, working groups will temporarily form and assume the operation’s name, such as Beagle Nose Working Group, that isn’t a unit, it’s an ad-hoc grouping that ends when their job is completed.
    PsyOps can work with SF, SO and other organizations, they also work with infantry. Your mention in such a way displays your complete ignorance of military operations and history.
    MAG SOG was military, see the civilian and military bit, then learn the difference between them in the United States of America.

    I’m done work and done with you. Good morning.

    1. Really and not confused. Under your assessment there is no such thing as US Strike Force, Special Warfare Group. I think you venture into an area beyond your knowledge base. By the way you were not active duty during SOG founding. Jade Helm is a training ops. Maybe you should read National Guard Regulation 500-5 and then add 2011 Domestic Operations Law Handbook Judge Advocate. You might rethink the founding of SOG in comparison to Phoenix Operations. Then you need to review USSOCOM Ft. Lewis, WA before it transferred to Ft. Brag, NC. Also suggest you review the history of air marshals Vietnam era and the history of US Strike Force in the drug war. By the DOL handbook provide the Secretary of Defense unlaterial authority and SOG working in a SAD capacity. Very few operational names carry through beacon. Jade Helm is one. Man you are either lost in the woods or in over your head.

  49. The incidents after referred to before Ferguson MO. Were incidents when the 1st Infantry Division assigned specific military personnel to an air marshal capacity to ride civilian aircraft. Then where US Strike Force was assigned to undercover operations. The thing to remembered Special Operations Group was founded by the CIA. Special Operations Group is actually a department under Special Activities Division Central Intelligence Agency. Referral Public Law 114. The above incidents were under the supervision of SAD CIA. In 2011 Obama and Congress decided to do away with the Posse Comitatus Act. The revision caused many changes in directives. Under the revisions the National Guard did legally take civilian personnel into custody and surrendered such to civilian lockup.

    Jade Helm is Special Operations Group. Special Operations Group was founded in 1966 by the CIA that would use military personnel for psyc ops. It was commonly referred to as MAC SOG

  50. Joe, you really are full of it.
    First, let me more properly introduce myself. I’m a retired 18D40. So, I know quite a bit about special operations. We’ve worked with special activities, we were not formed and operate under them.
    Second, we have to obey US law and obviously, the Constitution we swore to obey and protect.
    harvardnsj.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Bart-Special-Operations-Forces.pdf

  51. I at least thought some of you guys would at least look something’s up. I have been stating that Special Operations Group in not considered regular military and was founded by the CIA. So here it is. Special Operations Group is under Special Activities Division Central Intelligence Agency. At least Gman should have known this. This changes the scenario on operations

  52. First the Posse Comitatus Act was repealed in 2011; therefore, it does not have any power. There have been instances that civilians were detained by US Strike Force personnel working in an undercover operation for state police. There also have been incidents of detaining a civilian taken into custody on a flight by military personnel acting in an air marshal capacity. These incidents occurred of military installations. During the Ferguson riots the national guard were taking civilians into custody inside the Ferguson city limits.

  53. Nope, he is most likely a liberal trying to disguise himself in a profession that would have somewhat more conservative people in it and then taking a liberal stance in hopes of showing people that he is a liberal minded conservative, if that makes any sense. He used to go at it with someone who actually knew what he was talking about and he would never admit he was wrong or out gunned, so to speak. Your feelings have been correct.

    1. In my exchange comments with G Man reveals he has a general idea on how things use to be. The only thing is when the military detain a civilian. The civilian’s feels they have been arrested. It is a state of mind.

      The rules that govern the militaries use of Martial Law, deadly force, and arrest within the United States have changed. There does not have to a declaration of martial law. There are specific guidelines on the requirements of use. That is why it is referred to as asymmetric martial law.

      I know G man feels I am trolling and personally I could care less. My suggestion is you do your own research and act accordingly, but do not put yourself in a position to be viewed as “oppositional resistance to the military.”

    2. Only one problem, Joe. The military has never detained a civilian off of their installation, save under the strict conditions of the Posse Comitatus Act. While Bush had Congress screw it up, that screw-up was later repealed.
      This is incredibly well documented and widely understood by all, save you.
      Which makes me wonder whose nation you are trolling from.

    3. OK Wzrd1 let’s narrow this down. The national guard when enacted by the state are exempt form the Posse Comitatus Act. The National Defense Act signed by Obama 2012 almost renders the Posse Comitatus Act useless or is considering to repeal it. Finally SOG special operations group is a department under Special Activities Division Central Intelligence Agency. SOG as department of the CIA that utilizes military personnel from the Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines does not fall with in the framework of the Posse Comitatus Act. Unless you know something different.

    4. @ joe.

      The Original Posse Comitatus Act of 18 June 1878, applied to the US. Army ONLY. Later in 1956, it was Amended to Include the Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps. The ONLY services NOT included is the Coast Guard…

    5. I just saw the latest response to you from G man and he claims he is in his 33rd year in Govt. I believe I told you once before that he said he was a firearms or firearm parts dealer and worked (past tense) for the Govt. This guy is a total fraud and you are really wasting your time talking to him and you are never going to convince him even with the facts.

    6. @ Dprato

      I beg your pardon sir. I have excellent memory recall and you and I have never had an issue.

      The person that claimed to be a firearms parts dealer that you had a run-in with went by the name of Beau. It was in a Shooter’s Log article from back in June 2014.

      You would have seen my name amongst those posts because I was supporting you with commentary after this guy (Beau) treated you like a jerk.

      I feel an apology is in order here.

    7. @ G-Man.

      Not Quite! The original ISSUE was with me, and Beau came to my Defense. I tried in Vain to Amend the Issue with you, but you Refused to acknowledge my existence. You can Hold a Grudge, Like Grass Growing at Forty Below. So, I gave up trying…

  54. To quote Sen Feinstein: “No veteran should ever be allowed to own a gun because they are all mentally ill with PTSD.” and “Now we are hearing all this nonsense about how medical marijuana could alleviate the symptoms of PTSD in soldiers coming back from the Middle East. If individuals are having nightmares and panic attacks about the atrocities they have committed overseas while following orders from a war criminal like former President George Bush, then quite honestly they deserve it. We shouldn’t free them from their guilt any more then we should free a murderer or rapist from their prison cells.” Look at what has happened to the military leaders who held positions which were not in keeping with Obama’s policies and views. One way or another, they have been forced out, leaving less experienced personnel. “Likely to become home grown terrorists.” (oops, that wasn’t supposed to go public… It doesn’t matter that it wasn’t supposed to go public. Just the fact that it was stated. Today the POTUS ordered the flags flown at half staff. Nearly a week after military personnel were gunned down in the name of Islam… yet the gunman is being termed a lone gunman and murderer rather than a terrorist. Even though the WH was alight like a rainbow right after the SCOTUS ruling on gay marriage. This administration has been down on the military from the beginning. Down on law enforcement. Down on the Constitution. Down on the SCOTUS (except when they rule in Obama’s favor).

  55. “The person that wrote this comment is in dyer need of spell check and proper English.” Let’s be cautious about throwing stones in fragile surroundings. Make that: The person who wrote this comment is in dire need of spell-check and proper English.

  56. The person that wrote this comment is in dyer need of spell check and proper English. Those “flunky jobs” that you mentioned, what kind of jobs are you referring to? Maybe you would expound on your history of service to this country. I served 20+ years in the United States Marine Corps and never witnessed a single job that I would refer to as a “flunky job”. I explain to people very day, when they thank me for my service, that if everyone entered the military there would be no one here at home to serve the public no matter what their job was/is. We need police, firemen, doctors, nurses, food store workers, etc. There a thousand jobs that I could go on and mention, but I think people get the message. But as for those that are receiving long term government aide like welfare, food stamps, long term unemployment, medical subsidies, and all of the other free rides, you need to get your asses and back to work and stop the free ride. Our country needs every able bodied person to work so that we might survive what this country is going through in these trying times if we are going to have that smallest possibility of surviving. Simper Fi

  57. For the life of me I can’t understand you people. We all have the same goals we all believe in our rights mainly here the right of the Second Amendment and I suppose the first as well and if someone feel slighted about a subject having to do with the government and the way that it tends to mislead the people in many different avenues, why fight about it ? If you have something to say on the subject with the government and the way that it tends to mislead the people in a great many different avenues state it. Rather than childishly shot matching each other find cumulative ground….why don’t you compare information that way everyone wins? 1000 people saying 1000 different things gets nobody anywhere but I thousand people speaking about the same thing gets a far less rough draft of the truth out there….

  58. You need to watch this guy. A while back, I forget the exact topic, he was a firearms dealer making lots of money and had government experience. Only problem was that every now and then he would contradict himself. You really don’t want to keep going back and forth with him (G Man) because he will never acknowledge anything you say as being valid regardless who you are. I read many back and forths between him and someone who was very knowledgeable about Government law enforcement and he didn’t give an inch even when it was obvious he was wrong. I told him to take a hike a few times because he was totally obnoxious and in my opinion a fraud.

    1. @ dprato: I kinda got the same feeling. I asked him to contact me some time ago about a federal matter….Still waiting for his reply. I guess there’s BS in all levels of Federal Bureaucracy…..If he really is. I smelled something Bovine and putrid. Starting to pile up, I’d say
      . Can’t trust the Gov’t. or anyone who works for it. Learned that after 18+ yrs. in uniform. Had to get out while I could still think straight.

      WILL
      .

  59. im from mississippi . we got got ass beat the 1st civil war definitely like another shot but this time we fight we are brothers united not against them . we take care of our own . you gonna die sooner are later . die for freedom not some handpicked puppet .

  60. I’ve been tracking the general conversation since this blog has been posted and noted one thought.
    “What if the government was actually worried about a homeland threat?”
    I then pondered what I’d do, if I was in charge of trying to ascertain such.
    I’d of course, follow gun related blogs, after all, those present would highly likely be armed.
    I’d have my staff collate responses in those blogs that are indicating hostility to the government and trace the actual identity of the individuals posting.
    I’d then have all of that placed into a database and profile the individuals to see if there is an actual threat.
    I’d also do the same with various extremist groups.

    What got me pondering this, during a lull at work is simple. I recalled where I currently am, three miles from Fort Meade.
    Where such information is indeed tracked, both domestic and foreign.

    Sleep well, all!

    1. @ Wzrd1,

      If you actually knew what you were talking about you’d know how ridiculous you are to think that is how it works. You may as well have said, “Ooh I work near an Intel base so I feel that qualifies me to try and come off as intimidating.”

      I’m laughing because that actually is a big part of my line of work, and you are not even close. I can assure you all forum members will sleep very well.

    2. Actually, I was tweaking some of the more paranoid ones.

      As for the intelligence gathering, it’s all computerized, with “interesting” phrases flagged for futher evaluation and occasioanlly, it reaches human eyes.

      I’m retired Army, having retired in 2009 and was in Iraq and Afghanistan. Due to my duties, I retain my clearance and my current job has me dealing with DCISE, DHS and occasionally FBI, as we deal with USG clients.

    3. @ Wzrd1,

      Thank you for your honesty. Your second version proves you do in-fact know what you are talking about.

  61. You have to be kidding? So the GOLDEN SABER exercises we did in Texas in the Cold War was for us to practice taking over Texas and not fight the Warsaw Pact?

    Can say say “paranoia”…

  62. Richard, I’m on some sinister, surreptitious payroll? You flatter me, sir! I’m actually my own man, which you’re at liberty to believe or dismiss. If it helps your paranoia, I give you carte blanche to think of me as you like.

  63. Mike Silverton, I smell a large rat in your tone. I am guessing you are payed by the Clinton Foundation or Soros to attempt to mock anyone who might have opinion different than the communist agenda. Or maybe you are payed by the Bush/ Clinton cabal (drug cartel) just to antagonize people who are concerned about their country and don’t have personal gain, (like the politicians) in mind by repeating an agenda from their boss. It must be a terrible thing to not be able to think and speak with your own thoughts, oh well that would be a novel thing in the near future of our New World Order communist agenda.

  64. Quality time, Hide Behind? What would a benighted knuckle-walker like you know about quality? Let’s try a little test. Provide the beginning of the statement “,,, and the horse you came in on, idiot.”

  65. You are right I have no idea about that kind of pain from gout. But the Oxy is pure poison for the body, that is why doctors love it, means something else will fail like kidneys and liver. I hope you find another solution, but at least give the celery seed a try.

    1. @ Richard.

      Neurontin (Gabapentin) is a Yellow colored Solubilized Capsule about a 1/2-inch in length and 1/4-inch in diameter. Usually prescribed to people that suffer from Shingles. Makes “Oxy” look lie a Tylenol or a Baby Aspirin…

  66. Eyewitness to UN troops 1.5 years ago in Louisiana base camp and in Texas this year, period. Need I say more.

  67. Good play with words to insult, but I have taken and given eye to eye and fist or boot to many men far better men than you will ever be, I do not become depondent knowing that I am too fn old physicly for such a life butt was for most part a well spent productive life.
    OK what part of coup do you wish to discuss, it goes back most likely before you sucked on mothers teats in the kennel and then government mandated teats of education and military indoctrination began.
    An early example is when the cowardly Truman who trying to be manly decared war upon Korea without Congressional approval, and we as a nation let it slide.
    The truth of why N. KOREA invaded South was because US broke end of War agreement of elections for N&S Reunification .
    You play war games in head that are dreams of little boys while real warriors and rulers use strategys beyond your paygrade or need to know in your tiny life .
    Martial law in the US was instituted more or less gradually until military political educational extremist found wYs that hi tech guaranteed them immunity, bribes and corrupt morals of both citizenryand within every branch and snake pit of government reach helped; and today we have leaders both in military and political offices who should be hung for crimes against humanity but the buy out of corrupt debt of Bankers and Corpirate malefactors guaranteed theircomplicity
    That today we have over 30, 000 places of buisness that have the power to kill if not arrest americans if they think a terrorist attack by them is eminent; all under emergency powers of Preside tial orders .
    These same buisness and financial concerns and largest private security services are a part of your shadow governments controlling groups if called uponPrivate federaly licensed Security under Homeland Security become Marshals during a national emergency.
    We have been living under a National emergency far longer than when Congress sold out to that shadow government of Bush Cheney eraThat it hss been pretty much a benign form of Marshal law( hey try moving your money out of US) is only because the populace know not the true nature of those who rule.
    I care not about petty fears of lost freedoms for any but my immediate family and friends, all the others with you included , can live any fn way you want. Now pack your leash back to your masters; , Do you still drool when they ring your bell? . ( PAVLOV)
    Christ: what a waste of quality time for rationale discussion.

  68. Hide Behind (don’t be embarrassed, I hide mine too), how much time do you give this coup? What’s a reasonable cutoff date? In other words, when do you reappear in this forum to admit you had your head plugged into your hidden behind?

    1. Good play with words to insult, but I have taken and given eye to eye and fist or boot to many men far better men than you will ever be, I do not become depondent knowing that I am too fn old physicly for such a life butt was for most part a well spent productive life.
      OK what part of coup do you wish to discuss, it goes back most likely before you sucked on mothers teats in the kennel and then government mandated teats of education and military indoctrination began.
      An early example is when the cowardly Truman who trying to be manly decared war upon Korea without Congressional approval, and we as a nation let it slide.
      The truth of why N. KOREA invaded South was because US broke end of War agreement of elections for N&S Reunification .
      You play war games in head that are dreams of little boys while real warriors and rulers use strategys beyond your paygrade or need to know in your tiny life .
      Martial law in the US was instituted more or less gradually until military political educational extremist found wYs that hi tech guaranteed them immunity, bribes and corrupt morals of both citizenryand within every branch and snake pit of government reach helped; and today we have leaders both in military and political offices who should be hung for crimes against humanity but the buy out of corrupt debt of Bankers and Corpirate malefactors guaranteed theircomplicity
      That today we have over 30, 000 places of buisness that have the power to kill if not arrest americans if they think a terrorist attack by them is eminent; all under emergency powers of Preside tial orders .
      These same buisness and financial concerns and largest private security services are a part of your shadow governments controlling groups if called uponPrivate federaly licensed Security under Homeland Security become Marshals during a national emergency.
      We have been living under a National emergency far longer than when Congress sold out to that shadow government of Bush Cheney eraThat it hss been pretty much a benign form of Marshal law( hey try moving your money out of US) is only because the populace know not the true nature of those who rule.
      I care not about petty fears of lost freedoms for any but my immediate family and friends, all the others with you included , can live any fn way you want. Now pack your leash back to your masters; , Do you still drool when they ring your bell? . ( PAVLOV)
      Christ: what a waste of quality time for rationale discussion.

  69. Not sure what stage of gout I had, but read up on the subject with an open mind and I assure you I have been gout free for over 5 years with a daily regiment of celery seed. At this stage in your battle what do you have to lose, if it does not reduce the pain in 60 days you have only lost about $30. I am not trying to sell anyone anything just offered my results. I am not a big doctor fan even though I have brother who is one, so it is possible like so many other diseases that the doctor prescribed solutions never actually cure anything. Good luck

    1. Under the bark and out of sight of other mrmbers of bluenosed and sh@# don’t stink family tree membrrs there was my Great Granmothrr eho was ftom the nationd and was an herbal woman andbI lestned and am a believer in many natural healings by plants and some odd reptiles and animal glands as well.
      Wild Celery was an ancient cure used for arthritist, gout is a form of arthritist.
      Wild cherry, both berries and leaves or in winter the inner bark was a potent cure for arthritidt of the feet and hands, andbtoday pure cherry juice on a regular diet useage keeps hout awayAlso try apple cider vinegar with the mothrr for somewhat of a killer at onset and or furing gout attack.
      There are good pharm meds but they are in turn made of artificial chems that kill as they cure. Any bug out plans should include knowing native plants to areas you plan to enter.
      Kinda away form guns but if all else fails buy six fifths of good wuality Amrrican made Brandy , with a touch of pure black cherry jiice in place of Branch, take two fifths a day to guarantee no pain from gout.

    2. @ Richard.

      Stage Six, is hard to describe. But suffice to say the Skin in the effective area is So Weak, it require constant monitoring and Open Wound Sores occur on a regular weekly basis. I was taking Percocet (Oxycodone Hydrochloride/APAP) 10-325mg Tablets twice a day, until they tried to increase to dosage which nearly killed me, Now I take two Neurontin (Gabapentin) 300mg Capsules before bedtime, to be able to sleep. During the Day, I just live with the Pain…

  70. JADE HELM is not strictly a military only operation, there are thousands of unelected Fusion Center oprratives also participating, some city mayors and administrstors welcome with open arms and have sdvized police about the situation.
    The “Military” told US populace that they were going to do, not our Elected Representatives who are told You will Comply”.
    Thrre is no need of threat by punishment, that is understood, and it is far to late in game to try and question what or why.
    National Security a shuts all mouths that dare to rationally and seriosly question Governments and its Military Police Forces actions.
    What is sad is while Gov has paid pukers who monitor and enter conversatoions to obfuscate truth they have littlle to do brecause of so msny ex military the majority of whom nevrr seen any actual combat but held mere flunky 9-5 40 hr werk jobs, but have become Super Rambo Patriotic Dogma spouters after leaving active military, It is yhey and ex federal employees especially thosevasdociated with enforcement bureaus who glerfully attack there fellow americans.
    Do any of you actually believe our military is under control of our Elected Representatives?
    -If so then I wish you to go back and review recent past history of our Shadow government.
    Also to not take authorsbdefinition of what constitutes a Martial Law Scensrio, parts of New Orleans are still goverened under Martial law prilovisionsbput in place years before Katrina.
    FEMA ITSELF IS A PROBISO OF ABSTATE OF MARTIAL LAW AND IS OVER SEER OF EVRRY STATE COUNTY GOVERNMENTS, and they in turn are under the Homrland Security and Patriot Acts powers.
    Last I looked I had no tin foil in house, aluminum foil yes, but no tin.
    Even notables such as Paul Craig Roberts and Ron Paul and Dennis Kuvinich have stated that portiond of our government are no longer under popular control.

  71. Zyloprim has replaced allopurinol simply because allopurinol was dirt cheap and Zyloprim — like most brand-named drugs — isn’t. Big Pharma can be depended on in matters such as this. Wishing you relief and a speedy recovery.

    1. @ Mike Silverton.

      Zuloprim (Brand name) and Allopurinol (Generic name) are the Same Thing. Depending on Who making it Allopurinol is usually White and Round any Zyloprim is Coppery Colored Round on one side and Faceted on the other side.

  72. I’m a retired Marine of 20+ years service and have said 1990 after retiring from the Corps. that we would be fighting terrorist in our own streets and after Obama’s re-election, face Marshal Law. I have predicted that this country will be put in Marshal Law status between Sept. 2015 to March 2016 or a little later, for the last two years. With the declaration of Marshal Law the current Administration can stop all elections, gain control over the entire countries economy, fuel, utilities, property, as well as personnel movements between states and elsewhere. Obama could gain total dictatorship of this country for an unstated period of time over night. While they are practicing for the military control, we “the People” can practice for the same action and test our readiness for surviving these types of possibilities. It doesn’t have to be a negative occurrence, use it to your advantage. A patriot will never be caught off guard or unprepared.

  73. Well put, Ray. Am pleased to see a gun enthusiast (as I presume you are and as I definitely am) taking exception to fevered speculations. I’ve seen too much of this blather on the Internet to be surprised, however.

  74. Amen brother. I am also tired of trying to educate the people, they do not want to hear about this out of the box stuff and most are government trolls who are paid to dispute any idea that the government could be lying to us.

  75. As for gout, take 4-6 celery seed pills every day. Worked for me and they are available at any health food store.

    1. @ Richard.

      Stage Six Gout, isn’t very common in the United States, even a bowl of Cherries is pretty much useless at this point. I have to take THREE, Zyloprim (Allopurinol) 100mg tablets a day just to keep it in check. Do you know what Stage your at?

  76. @ Puddy Dunne,

    Very well put. The naysayers that like to call everyone else lunes will be caught with their pants down.

    Most entertaining is how these pessimists read into our comments and claim we are overreacting. For example – I’ve read many various replies from commenters as to how they will laugh when Jade Helm is over and no martial law occurs. Thing is, no one, not even the author, ever said that the exercise would end in martial law.

    What has been theorized in reality (paraphrasing here) is this so-called exercise is a coordinated joint military operation by Special Forces (not regulars) to train and gather intelligence specifically on U.S. citizens’ reactionary responses to troop movements entering their communities. The point of which is to garner valuable information and document effectiveness in PREPARATION for U.S. Martial Law should it ever need to be invoked.

    Unlike what many commenters claim, this specific operation is not routine. We have been at war off and on throughout various middle-eastern AORs for 25 years now, but all of a sudden we need to train for this in U.S. neighborhoods. Pessimist – please get real.

    For years we have built massive replicas of middle-eastern cities on U.S. Training Bases in our own deserts with contracted linguistic role-players to authentically train our troops and acclimate them to what they’ll face in the actual AORs. But again, all of a sudden we need to go into U.S. English speaking cities for additional training?

    Given the context, this type of activity would be alarming to any normal and reasonable person… as it has been. But to not even consider the possible is truly unreasonable and unhealthy.

    The majority concerned never said there would be martial law. Hilarious really when the pessimists exaggerate our reactions 10 fold to boost their own counterpoint. Who is really overreacting?

  77. Enough with the fear mongering! I am done with you. I have 2 sons. Both serve proudly as did I. They will both be in this TRAINING EXERCISE! Take me off your email list. I will also no longer be your customer.

  78. Shall we make this interesting? I’ll bet my charming 1842 house (where Jefferson Davis spent a night) that martial law in the US any time soon exists as a bubble in fevered brains. It’s a valuable house. What are you putting up?

  79. World history tells us, over and over, that the vast majority of military and police will follow orders to maintain their paychecks and personal well-being. Just an observation.

      • “Texting and driving don’t mix” – No shoot! If you’re doing that, you have no regard for other driver’s lives. DON’T DO IT!!!
  80. That’s great Suzanne. You’ve officially fallen into the ranks of “idiot”. Along with everyone else who drinks the Alex Jones retarded coolade. No common sense. The powers that be don’t often inform the public on their plans when it comes to exercises for just this reason. It more an lessonion how to deal with a hostile public when something happens. There is a reason a small force of special operations is involved in all this but I guess the conspiracy wack jobs which unfortunately happen to be a large percentage of the gun owners of America. A fact which I am sad to see. That mentality us the reasons you people are looked at that way and lumped in with the theater and schoolshooters. Now this! I embarrassed to be a gun owners and a veteran. For the record do not put me in the same”imaginary FEMA Camps” as the rest of these idiots…lol C’Mon people wake up! Who better to mobilize and trained local municipalities in the event of…NOT MARTIAL LAW BUT…? WHERE WOULD THE “BAD GUYS MOST LIKELY BE COMING INTO THE COUNTRY?WHERE ARE LARGEPOPULATIONS OF FOLKS THAT WOULD LIKE TO SEE CALIFORNIA RETURN TO MEXICO WITH THE HELP OF HALF OF SOUTH AMERICA. NOT TO MENTION THE OTHER BAD GUYS THAT WOULD BE JOINING IN OR HEADING UP THE SLOW AND STEADY INVASION…LOL. America is officially retarded.

    1. @ bzil maf,

      Two incredibly obvious problems with your wasted rant:

      1) The military did formally state to the public in great detail as to the purpose and goal of this operation and why it was being conducted in the areas scheduled.

      2.) The military’s formal statement came nowhere close to what you’ve just written it was for.

    1. It would appear to me based upon a multi-state exercise under their pretext, the 2 billion rounds of ammo procured, plastic coffin liners, millions of ready-meals and 800+ FEMA facilities with inverted razor wire, that the government paranoia excedes anything I have seen by patriots.

      Seems when the government exhibits the irrational, it is National Security and when we do it, it is tinfoil lunacy. That’s the psyop and the dialectic. Jade Helm is no different. It takes the premise and executes a psyop with cointel, disinfo and then collects the data. When the real McCoy comes, the paranoid mil.gov will know the scenario as they have become the Masters of this domain .

    2. MY TEXAS TIGHT-KNIT NEIGHBORHOOD HAS ONLY TWO PLACES OF ENTRY THAT IS COVERED BY NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH PEOPLE. THOSE OLD LADIES ON EITHER SIDE OF THOSE ENTRY STREETS HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO THAN SIT ON THEIR PORCH AND GOSSIP ON OUR PRIVATE WEB-SITE ABOUT WHO GOES IN AND OUT.
      MPHs ARE SLOW AND SPEED BUMPS WOULD FLIP AN ASSAULT VEHICLE TRAVELING OVER 30 MPH. PERIMETER NEIGHBORS HAVE PRIVATE OBSTACLE FENCES. OUR COUNTY HAS NO RESTRICTIONS ON PRIVATE PROPERTY GUN-FIRE. MY BACK YARD PISTOL RANGE IS WITHIN THE NO RESTRICTION CODE.
      WE ARE FAR OUT IN THE COUNTRY. “BAD GUYS” HOWEVER YOU DEFINE THEM, ARE NOT LIKELY TO LEAVE ALIVE OR WITHOUT SERIOUS INJURY. TEXAS NOW HAS A DEADLY FORCE USE TO PROTECT PROPERTY LAW.
      SORRY CITY SLICKERS!! I GUESS US RED-NECK COUNTRY TEXANS HAVE BEAT YOU TO THE PREPPERS PUNCH!!

  81. Sadly the “DUMB MAJORITY” is running the “US of A” into a deep hole of worthlessness.This once great nation is no longer the country the world respects and trust’s.

    “We The People” are no longer served by the people we voted for and trusted to run this country the right way.

    “We The People” are now serving our elected “Masters in Washington”. Who only serve themselves.Too many of the “DUMB MAJORITY”, are too busy with their own life problems to concern themselves with the running of this nation and it’s problems.Thus the continued lowering of the American standard of living. The “bar of life” that was once set high in America, is now so low, you need to crawl on your belly to get under it.

    There are too few of us “SMART MINORITY” to make the changes this country needs to put America back on top. Our numbers are too few to make the difference with a vote.The only way for the “SMART MINORITY” to help right the continuing wrongs of this country.Is by a BLOODY REVOLT. YES, BLOOD must be spilled to thin down the numbers of the “DUMB MAJORITY”. So the “DUMB MAJORITY” will become the “DUMB FEW”.That is the only way I see this once great country, becoming a great nation again.

    Tyranny has many faces, right now the “DUMB MAJORITY” is one of them.

  82. This is another reason it is so important we don’t let someone like Hillary into the office of our Commander-in-Chief!!

  83. Concern over this has reached epical comedic proportions. That the TX Governor order the State Guard to “monitor” is not evidence of military impropriety but an indictment to the sanity and populism of the Governor of Texas.

    It worries me, that with the extreme levels of paranoia exerted over concern for a training operation which is neither unique nor remotely concerting, entirely because of a leaked “in character” map for said mission gives me worry that folks concerned for our liberties would be too busy freaking out over every inane act that can possibly be contorted by charlatan “news” blogs to apocalyptic proportions to actually catch anything real.

    There seems to be an inverse proportion to noise and furry and acuity.

  84. So how would one prep for Martial Law. Would there be enough warning to bug-out. If not and a lock down/curfew were imposed, how would you get to your caches? Also if during Martial Law the military is allowed to unlawfully search your home, confiscating guns and food preps, how would you bug in? Or in a case like that would there just be forced relocation to a FEMA camp?

    1. That’s really sneaky of you Harry. Trying to morph this discussion into something that might actually provide useful intelligent information. It won’t work.

  85. Jade Helm is a prepatory exercise to train non-USA troops how to deal with us home grown terrorists, red necks etc. NATO has been present all along in the US against all of our laws. I am not overly concerned that our troops would fire on us, but those foreigners in NATO would love nothing better. In this age of so called acceptance with liberal changes forced down our throats, this is only a short step in us not panicking when the military is in our back yard, next step is martial law due to a government induced financial crisis. Congress has secretly authorized the President since Clinton to declare Martial Law due to domestic issues which include a financial crisis like the collapse of the dollar or stock market. Whoever the president is will use the opportunity to affect all the changes the New World Order wants. Unfortunately this is not a Democrat or Republican problem as the Bush/ Clinton Cabal is still in charge and they will control these changes. Congress and Obama do what they are told while pretending to make lots of noise to get more funding for their pockets. Its a scam of epic proportions.

  86. Yes they can listen to anything, but remember, George Washington and the Continental Army operated without modern communications. They used a network of spies, messengers and codes. Some used the most up-to-date technology of the time while others dated from more historic conflicts. More Info There were many different ways that men tried communicating with one another during battles:

    -Carrier pigeons
    -Radio
    -Telephone (hard wire)
    -Finally if those failed there would be “Runners” with commands from HQ to the front, or visual communication from one to the other.

    Pigeons. In a battle situation they provided a way of getting vital information to commanders when telephone lines were absent or broken.

    Pigeons proved to be an extremely reliable way of sending messages.

    Over 100,000 were used in the war with an astonishing success rate of 95% getting through to their destination with their message. Radio Radio’s were widely used during WWI.

    WW1 armies used mobile radio devices capable of transmitting and receiving , but the bad thing about them was that they were bulky, often too fragile for trench life and had a very limited range. Telephone (Hard Wire) Telephones allowed units on different parts of the WWI battlefield to communicate with each other.

    Radios in WW2 were still crude by modern standards and were subject to failure due to damage and to conditions (humidity/weather, terrain, etc). Hardline wired field phones (still available through surplus) and runners relayed information.

    Imagination. Those who forget the past and all that.

  87. You totally missed the point. It wasn’t about JH or Texas. It was about American spirit. About being willing to fight for what you believe even if you lose rather than live in chains.

  88. Dumbass? That’s really nice. An Abrams tank, F-35, Drone, is only as good as the supply line to keep it running. A lack of fuel taken out by IEDs or whatever turns them into nice paperweights for holding down patches of earth. The crews then become open air targets. I saw a lot of GIs injured in Vietnam by a kid on a bicycle tossing a coconut into a vehicle filled with troops who scrambled to get out thinking it was a grenade. After we covered the windows on some vehicles with wire mesh to keep grenades from being tossed in, they VC strung fishhooks on grenades so that they hung on the wire mesh. Sure, times have changed, but the VC and NVA kicked France out of Indo China before they kicked us out. The Taliban kicked Russia’s butts before they turned on us. The North Koreans and Chinese, the Japanese, the NVA/VC lost millions of troops and still kept fighting until we threw in the towel or got ourselves out. To take it further, a band of renegades kicked butt on the biggest and most experienced Army in the world and went on to create the greatest nation in the world. People like Castro, Mau, Pol Pot, have started with nothing and gone on to defeat the forces of the governments they opposed. If you have a defeatist view before you even start, you’re bound to lose. I can’t beat them, but We the People can. .But,, what do I know? I’m a dumbass. Right? I don’t want to fight my fellow Americans, but I am ready if it comes to that; not for myself but for my granddaughters. Meanwhile, I will continue to vote and to watch closely those who are supposed to represent us. It’s probably a waste of time to think like our Founders and our ancestors did. After all, you’re smarted than I am with my training, experience, and education.

    1. @ DaveW.

      Sixty-Three Years ago, on 27 July 1953, an Armistice was signed with North Korea, But NEVER ratified. Technically speaking, were STILL at war with North Korea. Food For Thought…

    2. @Secundius, quite correct. The Korean War is still a war, with merely a cease fire in place.
      During that cease fire, service members of both ROK and the US have been killed at the DMZ.

  89. I keep hearing people saying don’t worry I have seen U.N. trucks,saudi arabia millitary trucks going south on 75 freeway thur Dallas,Tx.

    1. UN IS NO THREAT. UN IS A “PEACEKEEPING” FORCE. SEVERELY RESTRICTED WITH “RULES OF ENGAGEMENT” RULES ARE STRICTLY ENFORCED BY THE UN GOVERNING BODY DO NOT FIRE UNLESS FIRED UPON. TARGETS MUST BE CONFIRMED!!!
      THERE ARE ONLY A FEW COUNTRIES WEALTHY ENOUGH TO TAKE TROOPS AWAY FROM THEIR OWN DEFENSE TO LOAN TO THE UN.
      TO BE EFFECTIVE A MILITARY UNIT MUST –SHOOT–MOVE–AND COMMUNICATE. WITH A LANGUAGE BARRIER A UN FORCE HERE IN THE STATES WOULD HAVE “A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE.”
      THAT WHITE “U.N.” ON THAT DARK BLUE HELMET WOULD MAKE A NICE AIMING POINT FOR A TEXAS RED-NECK HUNTER!!!

    2. @ Ricardo.

      Just exactly what do you mean by “Saudi Arabian Military Trucks”, because a friend of mine has a Unimog.

  90. Time to open a preppers store, its seems there is an abundance of idiots in texas, including the governor that are worried about our federal government and legit military training when they should be worried about home grown terrorism. At least i will make a few dollars in the process. One word. CHATTANOOGA remember our fallen.

    1. @ Sam.

      The figure of 1,200 Troop’s is correct, CNN verified the amount. Seven States and twelve Texas Cities or Towns. Approximately 80 Troops per City/Town, each with two Humvee’s and a Water Buffalo per town as well. And a 240 Troop HQ Section…

    2. Incorrect, as the 160th SOAR will be also part of the operation, which means pilots, crew chiefs, mechanics, etc.
      Figure around six per bird, at least 6 – 12 birds, you’d end up with a platoon scattered all to hell and back per city and nothing for the other states.
      Out of the 240 would be a platoon of medics, HQ mechanics, supply, intelligence, operations, communications for the entire lot.

      It’s more likely that the elements will be broken up to support resupply points, mock intelligence collection teams, etc.
      Boy, but this brings back some memories!

    3. @ Wzrd1.

      I wasn’t TRYING to break down the Units Substructure. That was all the Information I could find in 5-Minutes or Less. GMAB, JhC…

    4. Odd. That’s the *first* thing that a senior NCO would consider. Every officer would also expect reports on it.

      Meanwhile, your use of verbiage has changed, y

    5. @ Wzrd1.

      My Bad, Will try to do better next time. Stroke, Peace-Time Military Injuries, Half-Blind, Stage Six Gout (in Arms, Fingers, Feet, and Toes) and Chronic Pain have a Accumulated Effect HOLD ON ME…

    6. I know about the chronic pain, osteoarthritis, herniated disc, separated shoulder here, Half deaf from an IED, trauma induced cataracts (one IOL replaced a nearly opaque lens) and lattice degeneration.
      I usually pause before hitting submit, correcting after the fourth or fifth review.

  91. You lost me at:

    “After reviewing the maps and plans, it isn’t far-fetched to think the military is practicing for what essentially could be martial law or military take-over of our country after a government overthrow or coup or similar massive civil disturbance.”

    It is pretty far-fetched, or at least it appears to be, and you’re not helping by not substantiating your claims.

    Thanks for further tinging gun owners with paranoid conspiracy theories…

  92. In my 12 years in the Army guard and reserves, I never met anyone that would follow unlawful orders… I don’t get Jade Helm, and their explanation that it’s for “training”… That’s what NTC is for…

    I’m not worried in the least about JH… Some would follow orders, but not nearly enough to actually matter… Bush 2 would have taken all our freedom i he could, and Obama certainly would have if he thought he had a chance…

  93. Those odds are only if all military and law enforcement in the Country sided with the Government in suppressing the American Public. In actuality, it is my opinion that far less than 25% of all military or law enforcement would engage the American Public and the other 75% or more would side with the Public. Whether the odds are good or not what really counts is people’s commitment to the task. The Founding fathers were not exactly in the majority when they fought the British and they managed to win ultimately.

  94. For all practical purposes we saw Marshal Law in Baltimore.

    Marshal Law is an option and can be implemented, so when off-base “training” is conducted when millions of acres exist just for this purpose, it is wise to raise an eyebrow and question. Blind trust is not only unwise, it’s blatantly stupid.

  95. Not sure where you got your numbers from but I also included all the military which now numbers less than 1 million and all local, county and state police as well as all Federal Law Enforcement which are now embedded in virtually every major Government Agency. So the estimate I came up with was around 6 million. Even if it is high, my opinion is that most of those folks will side with the people if they are issued unlawful orders to suppress the American Public.

  96. I think you missed some key points. In my opinion, most of the military would stand down, desert, or oppose any unlawful orders issued by the Administration. It stands to reason that until something actually happens no one, including you and me knows precisely what will happen. I simply happen to believe the people will prevail over any threat posed by the Government and forces loyal to them which will be minimal.

  97. As a retired Army Infantryman, I have participated in numerous training operations all over the globe. Three places in the US come to mind. The National Training Center (NTC) in California, the Joint Readiness Training Center (JRTC) in Louisiana, and the Ywarra National Forest of North Carolina, in support of “Robin Sage”. Local civilians were even involved in Robin Sage. The bottom line is, I’m not worried about Jade Helm

  98. uh huh. at the end of this litany of tinfoil-hat-wearing fear-mongering comes the sales pitch: buy our pricey survival goods.

    it’s a pretty bald-faced sales manipulation, but the sad part is, there’s no lack of people credulous enough to buy it.

  99. To me, the president can think about martial law all he wants. When it comes down to it, the federal government will need the cooperation of the military, law enforcement and the states to enforce it. Couple this with the downsizing of our military by congress and the president.

    This country is a mighty big place and there are not enough troops to go around to enforce martial law and take care of world affairs. And here in Texas, most law enforcement agencies have openly stated they would not enforce it even if the president ordered it. I think other similar events would take place in other states as well, though I could be totally wrong on this point.

    And finally, federal troops would be hesitant enforcing something they don’t really believe in and hurt the citizens who have openly supported them for years. To betray the public confidence would certainly have serious repercussions for years to come. This is also not to mention all the paramilitary groups out there would certainly mobilize and take matters into their own hands. It would certainly be an environment filled with chaos to say the least.

  100. I don’t believe that 100% of the military or law enforcement in the Country will side with the people, but I do believe the vast majority will. There are always those who feel power is more important than humanity. They will be vastly outnumbered and even at a one to one ratio they have no hope of winning. It would be fool hardy for anyone in Government to order the military or police to suppress the public. Just some facts, in Conn and NY 85% and 95% of military style rifle owners refused to register them, there are 100 million plus gun owners in this Country and only 6 million law enforcement and military, many of the police chiefs and sheriffs in this Nation are pro firearm and have little use for the Federal Government. In Colorado where I live, the majority of Sheriffs disagreed with the passing of the most recent gun control laws as unenforceable. There is vast disappointment with the Federal Government and more people including blacks and women are now firearm owners with more conceal and carry permits than in any time in our Country’s History. If those facts don’t paint a clear enough picture for those in power, nothing will until it hits the fan and they find themselves in a guerrilla war they cannot win. Just my opinion but the facts should speak for themselves.

  101. This TRNG exercise may be linked to the 40000 troop cut the Army is planning. When that cut happens, our Alaskan border will be easily overrun by Russian and Chinese military. Our coastline communities are going be almost indefensible by our Military. The list goes on. As of the latest intel I’m privy to, the southern coast and land borders are at the top of the list for easy entry by terrorists and other hostile forces. Thinking about the TRNG in those terms may help y’all get some sleep.

    1. @ LHPeterson.

      The 40,000 troop cut is part of the Sequestration Act of 1985 or the Balance Budget and Emergency Deficit Control Act of 1985 (aka, Gramm-Rudman-Holling Act) penned into law by then President Ronald Reagan…

    2. Wrong, with a capital R, for following the defect.

      This cut in force is by legislation de novo, not the ancient and long extinct act.
      We drew up a larger military, we’re drawing it down, now that they have nothing to do but to waste tax dollars.

      I’m recently retired military. I love a good, strong defense.
      I also don’t want 60% of my income supporting something that isn’t absolutely required.
      Which is what a nation asking such a non-loss would be asking, then bitching about.

      Meanwhile, I’m royally pissed off by those who not only ch

  102. This is such a load of crap. Have you people gone so far off your rockers that you think the men and women of our armed forces would be a party to a conspiracy like this? It would be funny if it wasn’t so pathetic. Why don’t you all load up on food and ammo and retreat to your basements so that the rest of us don’t have to listen to this gibberish.

  103. I don’t think too hard about Jade Helm, Civil War, us against them, or any kind of secession or insurrection against the government. But this does give one something to ponder. I’m a Vietnam veteran (a proud one) and know what went through my mind while in the USAF. I was enlisted and two tours in Vietnam ’66-’68. I don’t think I ever spent any time thinking about what I would do as a soldier against the private sector even though many of them were rebelling against us. I’ talking about draft dodgers, anti-war protesters, radicals and incidents like Kent State, etc. I bet the guys deployed to Jade Helm are not giving a thought to anything like enforcing martial law. Maybe the officers or strategists are but I think it is far fetched. I am a fifth generation Texan and I am very proud of being one. There are a lot of respondents to this question who resent Texas and Texans for some reason. All I can say is I don’t waste time worrying about other states of people. I do thing about my personal situation and reasonable preparedness for anything that might require extraordinary action. In that regard, I own guns because I like them. Also, I feel secure having them. But I do not believe I could hold off an armed force of our military if there were a plan to deprive me of life, liberty, and happiness. Those who think there are enough like me to resist such a thing are dreaming. I might try to pull some tricks to avoid my demise as in some kind of guerilla asymmetric tactics but I really don’t know. As I said, this is just a thinking game. I do not believe for a second there is anything going on with Jade Helm except training for contingent actions. Our military is awesome. It is pretty dumb to think our guys would act against the people they are sworn to protect… and the Constitution!

    1. Thank you, James H. At least *someone* here respects common sense and fellow veterans!
      Here’s what is laughable, the thought that some grand takeover of Texas, a state as big as, well, Texas. With a massive force of 1200 personnel, counting support (which is the majority).
      On volunteers private property and military installations.

      I’ve recently retired, after serving for nearly 28 years in the US Army.
      Some blather that “Obama has pissed off the military”, with no supporting facts, as our military knows damned right well who our Commander in Chief is and what is a lawful and unlawful order.
      The only time we’d step in would be for something like Katrina and we actually did, along with various state National Guard units, helping people out and restoring order so that the local and state governments could resume control of their areas of responsbility.

      I’ve quite a few friends in Texas, thankfully, they’re as sane as you are, James.

    2. That is precisely why there are foreign troops training here, and have been for years. American troops doubtfully would fire upon US citizens, so it is needful to have foreign, and/or UN troops here to do that. There would be little compunction for Rooski troops to fire on us citizens even though they may be told to by American officers. Just something to think about. Agree with all the rest of your post.

    3. @ James H.

      Jade Helm is NOT even a person, its a Acroynm for Jade or Joint Assistant for Development and Execution, Helm or Homeland Eradication of Local Militia’s…

    4. Wow, you’re as wrong as my children giving birth to me, their father.
      Meanwhile, I noted your hours at keyboard, sudden change in use of language and wonder what part of Russia you’re from?
      You made sense previously, during a high value shift.
      Now, you’re either the village drunk or you’re a foreign agitator.

      So, how do you want to play this forward?
      I’m only two miles from the NSA and have access.
      And I know that DHS monitors this forum.

  104. When the Civil War erupted, members of the Union Army, including West Point cadets were permitted to resign in order to return home. Granted, this in not 1861, however, it is quite possible you would see the same thing happen. The powers that be would not want anyone in their force who might commit acts in support of the opposition. Also, anyone who “deserted” in order to joint the opposition would be considered patriots for standing by the oath of enlistment they took when they initially joined the armed forces. Personally, I believe that far more members of the armed forces would maintain their oaths of enlistment and refuse to violate the Constitution than most would think. Historically, 80% of the armed forces are conservatives in their leanings. Obama has done his best to anger the military (as well as law enforcement). What he has done to the armed forces is shameful. Many members of the military are also gun owners, and many are members of the NRA and other pro-gun groups. It is expected that those who left military service to join the opposition would be joined by hoards of pro-gun hunters and veterans. This time around, the “Civil War” might go the other way. And those who were “undecided” would go ballistic the first time Americans were fired upon by federal forces just as happened after WW1 when the Federal Forces fired on veterans who had marched on DC to demand the benefits they had been promised but which the government had reneged on.

    1. Two words: Abrams Tank. Enjoy plinking at the range with your AR-15 and indulging delusions of grandeur about your heroic role in the next Civil War. Dumbass.

    2. @ Bronson,

      One word: Destructible. Try convincing otherwise to the military maintenance, tank crews, and Defense Appropriations Committee faced with replacing over 80 Abrams Tanks that were taken out by ragtag local fighters during the Iraq/Afghanistan war.

    3. What you’re speaking of was M1 Abarms tanks (damaged) in Iraq. None were destroyed, they needed significant repair. One case I’m aware of was due to a kinetic impactor round fired from a T72 tank, which lodged in the armor and required factory repair.
      Another I’m aware of was one M1 Abrams tank “killed” by a new model Russian RPG, which struck precisely between the bogie wheels, burning through the tank and killing the computer. All crew walked away unharmed and the tank was repaired and returned to service.

      So, G-man, how many RPG rockets do you have that are made after 1989? Do you have a T72 tank, with a kinetic impactor in your back pocket?
      Do you even have what is needed to make an eagle fireball?

    4. @ Wzrd1,

      I never stated that we ever lost a sole. Matter-of-fact we never did lose anyone, in a tank. Disabled or destroyed, regardless, it is still uselessly out of commission. But you still have 78 more tanks to explain away.

      I’ll give you a hint towards the number one disabling tactic… recycled unexploded U.S. ordinance used to make IEDs against our own troops. Rarely was a rocket ever used in the official count of disabled tanks.

      Trust me; no one needs a T72 in their back pocket. One only needs to conduct a casual search of YouTube to see how many Americans are blowing crap up just for fun. Imagine if their lives depended on it.

      False confidence will lose the day, and history proves it loses wars.

    5. @Wzrd1

      Having spent more than a few years as an Armor Officer, I agree, any tank, and especially an M1 is hard to take out with an RPG. On the other hand, having spent 2 1/2 years in Iraq from August 2004 to Feb 2007, I can tell you that I saw several Abrams destroyed by everything from IEDs buried under the road to a VBIED that pulled up next to an M1 that had its turret traversed over the side and under the back of the turret, and then detonated under the back of the turret completely blowing the turret off and destroying the tank.

      Here’s a few pictures of M1s that would be, in my experience as an Armor officer, considered total battlefield losses and suitable only for cannibalizing for parts. Most of the losses, if not all of them after the initial invasion of 2003, were from non-traditional armaments. I suggest you do a little more research before writing rude and scathing responses.

      http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/3/2074/get_image.php.jpeg

      http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3163/3072056268_d86718630c_z.jpg

      http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/3/2074/get_imagdsadasdsae.php.jpeg

      http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/3/2462/DM-SD-04-14985.jpg

    6. @ G-Man.

      Two difference between OUR M1 Abrams Tanks and the one’s supplied to the Iraqi Army. Their’s have 105mm Gun Tubes and NO Chobham/Depleated-Uranium Armor…

    7. @Secundius

      As my previous post indicated, I saw plenty of US Army M1s destroyed in 2 1/2 years in Iraq. These were first line US AFVs with all the bells and whistles.

      NO vehicle is indestructible, and I saw IEDs buried in culverts under roads that were powerful enough to lift a 70 tom M1 right off the ground.

    8. @ Miakial.

      Doing the Construction of the Abrams Tank, just after Chobham/Depleated-Uranium Armor was added to the Construction. They performed a PROOF Test to see what it would take to Completely Destroy a Tank. Eight 8-inch (203.2mm) Howitzer Shells Stuffed into the Turret, ALL Detonated at ONCE.

      During the 2nd Gulf War, one Abrams Tank with the Driver stuck in the Driver’s Compartment. Withstood ~67 RPG-9’s at Point-Blank-Range Hits (100-meters, or less). And the Lone Crew Man, Survived, Still Listening to his Walkman Tunes…

    9. @ Secundius,

      I’m not talking about the tanks we gave the Iraqis who in-turn gave to ISIS and then ran. I’m talking about the initial tanks used by the U.S. to take Afghanistan and Iraq to begin with… and then… Afghanistan… again.

    10. @ G-Man.

      If there not part of the Force sent back to Germany to have their 120mm Gun Tubes replaced. hey may be part of the Force that Congress had to Buy Back, because the US. Army had NO USE for Them…

    11. There was a time Romanian dictator Nicholas Chauchescu thought he “owned” the military, and that it wold blindly follow his orders. He attempted to use it subdue the people. Instead the soldiers turned on him. When you consider that Romania didn’t have the history of freedom that our nation does, or that our military personnel (unlike politicians) really mean it when they swear to uphold the Constitution, it should give any tyrant – or wanna-be tyrant – pause

    12. What an unmitigated pile of steaming crap.
      First, your entire premise that the bulk of the military would desert because a whopping force of 1200 service members, most of whom are support, are going to use magic to take over Texas is absurd. That is what would be needed, magic.
      Second, what you referred to at the end was the Bonus Army marching on Washington. They demanded their war bonus be paid thirteen years early, due to the Great Depression. The bonus was paid when it was due in 1945 and not reneged upon.
      No US Army forces fired on anyone as well, that is a bald faced lie.
      Colonel Douglas MacArthur lead Major George S. Patton to leave a cavalry charge through the camp, after setting off adamsite.
      The Bonus Army withdrew across the river and President Hoover ordered MacArthur to stop. MacArthur ignored his orders and attacked that camp as well.
      54 injured veterans, not a one shot, one miscarriage and one 12 week old child died from adamsite poisoning.

    13. Being here in Texas and half ass monitoring this stuff, the 1200 number are Special Ops troops not support assets. The support troops are coming from local military bases and civilian contractors.
      Most air assets have been sneaking in and out of Fort Hood. They like playing at night. There are four Black Hawks and at least one Kiawah with modifications I haven’t seen before. Normal paint job.

    14. That one bird might be a Little Bird configuration, with bench seats on the sides.
      Other configurations were as light gunships.

      As for night operations, yep. We did the bulk of our operations at night, when we could see and the SOB’s can’t see. 🙂

  105. Economics both global and domestic are in peril. Kenisian ignorance has put the world at risk by debasing fiat paper to nearly zero. Zero is the sum of value that will cause the training to graduate to “Real Time Ops.” Make no mistake about the present, as a reset is upon us in the realm of finance. The country will survive but not before it suffers some pain. 30 years of service to what was supposed to be the greatest nation in the world. If we claim that it still is then we must make an effort to keep it that way by taking care of family, friends and.neighbors. As a society the govt. can only do so much! The time to minimize the fallout is now! Its OK to be prepared a little early, but its a bad thing if your a.day late!

    1. I feel it would be very difficult, if not impossible, for a civilian militia, regardless of size, to combat the armament available to the military. How could we defeat or even survive tanks, apaches, bombers and so on? Don’t misunderstand, I too will be doing what I can to avoid and fight, I’m just saying it will most likely be a futile effort.

  106. Lets do a little math. Assume that every NRA bumper sticker in TX represents a squad of highly moto patriots, guns, ammo, food, fortifications, and the vehicle itself (please don’t laugh at the guy in the Kia!). That turns into a lot of people real quick, and i don’t think a one-star USAF desk pilot is a match for any of them. I know that, you know that, and President Obama knows that, and that’s what makes him sweat lol

  107. G-Man I understand what your saying, for the most part, and i don’t question that you know what you’re talking about. I guess i am talking more about the intangible, perhaps even emotional part of a SHTF event. I mention this in light of my own family which split in the Civil War. I am also envisioning much more than a few spot skirmishes. I believe certainly that the military would do as they had been trained however in an large scale event where the country actually divided there would without question be large numbers of military personal as well as law enforcement who’s heart, minds and personal convictions would leave them no other choice but to change sides. I guess those people would be considered deserters. however In a fight against government tyranny i would call them patriots.

    1. @ McRuger,

      No doubt. To that extent it would most assuredly become an unexpectedly defining moment for many. However, just like the Civil War, and short of a natural disaster, such events will not have developed over night. There will have been time for people to digest the situation; just as many in this forum already have. And so, many will not have to make choices as their dedication to liberty and freedom is uncompromising. They will simply pick up arms and do what they know needs to be done.

    2. I suspect that is a pretty accurate assessment of how things would go. My son who is an Army Sgt tells me that men do actually talk about it on rare occasions. So it is something they think about.

  108. Despite Gov. Abbott’s grandstand statement about the Texas State Guard “monitoring” Hade Helm 15, not one member was put on State Active Duty, no directives were issued, there were no briefings or meetings on the subject, and the state doubled down on the TXSG prohibition against members carrying arms by canceling the only sanctioned firearms training the Guard had.
    There was also a gag order for members to be silent about JH15. In short, nothing is being done by the state to mitigate this violation of posse comitatus. Nothing.

    1. @ Steve Orpin,

      See now, the Governor’s crack team of elite Guard are just that good. They are out operating covertly in the field without a public trace. Of course they wouldn’t be so great if not for their awesome Team Leader. I don’t mean to drop names, but if you were to pay a visit to the Chuck Norris residence, you’d find he’s nowhere to be found at the moment. Goooooo Texas!!!

    2. Yeah, so covert that even members of the TXSG don’t know they are doing it!

      The Governor’s “response” was all blow and no go.

    3. @ Steve Orpin,

      I was having fun with Chuck Norris jokes, but in all seriousness, you aren’t entirely correct.

      There was a written directive given by the Governor directly to the Texas Military Commander. And given that the Texas Adjutant General serves at the pleasure of, and under the command of the State Governor, the General has no choice but to carry out the Governor’s direct orders (see link below).

      So whether or not accomplishing that 8-week mission would require the call-up of State Guard for activation is up to the General’s operational discretion. Nevertheless, per the Governor’s written order the Military Guard Commander still has no choice but to assign personnel of some sort to monitor the entire operation and keep the Governor regularly informed, per orders.

      While the Governor’s actions may not impress everyone with the fanfare you expected, he still in-fact did follow through with the issuance of a written order (directive).

      As for gag orders and what not, I’ve seen nor heard any reports of such. See the link to the Governor’s letter to the Adjutant General below:

      http://gov.texas.gov/files/press-office/20150428125759.pdf

    4. @. G-Man.

      An “ELITE” Guard answerable to whom, the Governor or the State. Are we Fighting One Yolk of Oppression, just to Replace it with Another.

    1. Dave W. If Texas seceded in support of liberty i suspect they would not have to go looking for patriots to help defend them.

  109. Really do not mean to debate your issue. Strike Force and Special Ops fall under Tittle 10 USC and Tittle 50 USC. This is a realm outside of regular military. Yet still subjects them to UCMJ. Then the Covert Act subjects them to criminal justice. It is like when Strike Force were the Air Marshall in the 70s. They did so under Tittle 50 USC. The CIA falls under Tittle 50 USC.

    1. Okay Gman, I know were your line of thought comes from. Yes there rule of “detainee’ to be surrendered to civilian authority. As per say special ops police are not going to act like civilian authorities in most cases. In other words they will not enforce state, county, and local ordinances, because they are not bound by those laws. In most cases the individual will be put in plastic cuffs, detained for civilian authority, or escorted to federal lock up.

    2. @ Joe,

      I had already started writing this before I saw your acknowledgment. But I still wanted to clarify that Title 10 is Active Duty which is the status that forces ALL active military to fall under Posse Comitatus and the UCMJ.

      Again, as such, no civilian arrest is legal under ANY circumstances by military personnel in a Title 10 status. There is simply no authority for it so an arrest would be unlawful and the military person liable for false imprisonment should they affect an arrest.

      As for civilian federal, state or local officers that may be say, in the National Guard, and called to Title 10 Active Duty would temporarily relinquish their arrest authority and assume Title 10 authority over military personnel only.

      As for Title 50 that has nothing to do with the authority of Active Duty or arrest powers, but rather it is the United States Code that governs how we conduct and Intelligence activities in regard to War and National Defense. Essential it provides the rules for authority over the Intelligence Community at large and those agents; which incidentally are primarily made up of civilians anyway and thus would never fall under Posse Comitatus or the UCMJ.

    3. @ Joe,

      One additional assist… the apprehensions that are allowed to be made are when a civilian unlawfully enters property under legal military control. But never does the military have authority out on the public streets. Only on rare occasion such as a downed military aircraft on civilian land, but then they are to demark it as under military control. The only other instance is of course is an act of Martial Law.

      Another interesting tidbit is the National Guard does not fall under the Posse Comitatus Act because they are in a Title 32 status. However, should the President activate them with orders into a Federal Title 10 status, then they fall under the UCMJ and Posse Comitatus once again.

  110. Texas currently has a statewide Independence movement which I believe is a real possibility given the increasingly Liberal conversion of the United States into a totalitarian state. The Democrats and Progressives will eventually increase their hold by flooding the country with Muslims and Illegal aliens that come from 3rd world Hellholes to vote them into office. Once that is done they will transform the nation into a Communist Mecca that will outlaw firearms and enslave the population. That is what will trigger the secession of Texas. But, the union will not allow it, they need the billions in tax revenue the state provides to sustain the Eastern welfare states. If you can’t see this coming, you are blind.

    1. Speaking for the rest of the Union, I wouldn’t shed a tear if all you Texan wackjobs seceded. The racism, paranoia, and general idiocy of your comment is all the protection Texas needs from ‘martial law.’ Trust me, we’ll let you go without a fight.

    2. Wow, just frigging wow.
      First, you claim that illegal aliens can hold office, as well as legal aliens, ignoring the hell out of the US Constitution.
      Then, you go on about a system of government that is extinct in the world, communism. All communist states moved toward capitalism quite a long time ago.
      Keep letting your betters divide this land, to more ably conquer it financially while we’re all quibbling. Just as they want us to.

  111. “Is it crazy to think that the government is training for nationwide martial law?”

    Err, yes, it is crazy. Dreaming up plots involving closed Walmarts and military exercises is definitely paranoid.

    1. This whole article is stupid. You’re really going to get paranoid about FIVE Wal Mart Closures across 5 states? I live in Texas and there’s about 10 Wal Marts in a 25 mile radius of where I live. Fear Mongering bloggers are the best

    2. WE are Missing the entire Point.. WHAT REally Happened to Poison the Blue Bell ICE Cream????? Its Never been answered. and was the Fukisuma Sunami Really a “Natural Disaster” Think ABout It

    3. @Mike Davis.

      I’m sorry, are you actually serious or am I missing the satire here? What does Blue Bell Ice cream have to do with marshal law?

    4. @ Mike Davis.

      The Blue Bell Ice Cream Incident took place in March of 2015 and was caused by Listeria Food Poisoning. Probably a Improper Pasteurization Process of just a Few Degree’s, while Invalidate a Proper Pasteurization from taking place, Incubation period, varies from 3 to 70-days depending on temperature and humidity conditions…

    5. Of note for Listeria poisoning, the elderly and the fetus are of the greatest risk for death.
      Healthy people just get a bit ill and in a week or so, are recovered completely.

      @Secundius, I recall the recall, can’t quite place it and I deleted the e-mail from the FDA.
      Of course, all FDA recalls are voluntary, a company is free to poison who it wishes, if it refuses to recall a tainted product. But, the liability upon FDA notice of contamination would be extreme.

    6. @ Wzrd1.

      Not exactly my expertises. But since 24 December 2014, there have been Eight “Listeria Monocytogenes” FDA Recall’s. Two to Blue Bell Creameries, alone. The last one was on, 23 March 2015, not exactly sure when the First was given…

  112. People need to chill out. I love how TX is “sooooo pro-military” but is the first to throw up any dissent to them. I can personally attest that these excersises are exactly that, an excersie. To put in perspective, Chris Kyle if he were alive, may God rest his soul and keep him for all eternity, would be a part of this. Let that sink in. Relax, chill out, and follow it. You people may learn something. Schmucks.

    1. Even Thomas Jefferson and others among the Founders told us to be ever vigilant and suspicious of our own government which they had designed. They knew from personal experience how government could become tyrannical. Jefferson also said that the Democracy needed to be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and traitors… and that We the People should not allow too much time to pass between those refreshers. There is nothing wrong with some paranoia as long as it doesn’t rule your life.

    2. Vigilance is one thing. Paranoia is yet another thing, which would be another course to destruction.
      Never attribute malice, when stupidity would be the more likely explanation.

  113. The notion of government take-over/martial law is preposterous. If there is such a concern for the “protection” of the civilian population, try becoming a police officer or joining the military/national guard…make a real difference. Also try voting and encouraging others to vote….our nation is of the people, for the people, and by the people…the only question I would ask to each reader – as one of the People, what have you given back to this society to make it a better place…Put down the tin foil hats and make your contribution. Make a difference of you own.

    1. I, for one, gave 21+ years of my life in military service/law enforcement. In the end, Agent Orange caught up to me and I am now 100% disabled. I am not complaining about it though because it was the path I chose rather than hide out in Canada or whatever.

  114. Many are militia, police and gun owners. They don’t have to be overly organized since there are less than 6 million police and military and I believe few of them relatively speaking will try to suppress the American Public. Just protect your own property or join up with friends and relatives in small guerrilla groups. We outnumber them 20 to 1.

    1. 20 to 1 ??? not good odds when 20 are watching propaganda on the television while our government has been totally subverted (coup de tah) under our nose without a gunshot fired ,Planning at a government / military level , for something big ?? black budgets and missing funds that could run a nation , ? 20 to one is not good!! we the people have been surely , screwed up the whazang without a whimper .we participate every time they show us babies being killed ,or be headings ,and it is not responded to , why do we have this evil crap put into our minds??

    2. @ dprato.

      If your “Militia” fights as well as the Militia of 1812-14. WERE ALL DOOMED. The Regular Army of the War of 1812 was ~6,740 Officers and Enlisted. The Various Militia’s of the time was ~489,000, a 1 to 72.55 disparity. After 1814, the Militia Act of 1792 was “Gutted” because of the DISMAL performance of the Militia in the war of 1812-14. It wasn’t until 1903. With the Introduction of the “Dick Act” or Efficiency In Militia Act of 1903, that two Militia’s were formed. The Reserve Militia and the Organized Militia, which was later transformed into National Defense Act or National Guard Act of 1916…

    3. in 2008, there were 17,895 law enforcement agencies employing 1.13 million full-time workers, including over 765,000 sworn officers, as well as about 100,000 part-time employees, including over 44,000 sworn officers.

      As I recall, this does not include Federal LEOs of the FBI, Capital Police, National Parks LEOs, US Territories. The addition of federal officers brings the total to approximately 1.3 million sworn officers (officers having powers of arrest excluding military law enforcement officers who have limited powers over civilians).

  115. I don’t remember how many recall this little introduction to the Obama administration, but here it goes. Janet Napolitano, remember that shining example of team Obama? One of her initial acts was to distribute a warning to local and federal law enforcement agencies regarding certain members of our society. They were returning combat vets, retired military vets and retired law enforcement officers as potential terrorist threats. After a less than warm approval by the aforementioned groups she quickly retracted her memo and then played like it never happened.

    These are the very people that the administration fears the most. We possess organizational skills, weapons training and an understanding of tactics. Many returning vets are encouraged to seek medical help in dealing with PTSD. While some vets do need serious help others by accepting it regardless of need are cutting their own throats in the long run. It can and will be used to deny them the ability to purchase or possess a weapon. It will all depend upon the nature of their PTSD and the medications/treatment they have to undergo to control it.

    Operation Jade Helm doesn’t concern me. It interests me, but I don’t perceive it as a threat. Hillary’s support of the UN gun control efforts in the US. is very real and concerns me a great deal. This is something we can control with our vote come election day. The Donald needs to end his little game whatever it may before he pulls a Ross Perot and draws votes from our eventual candidate that will result in another socialist in the White House. The coming elections keep me occupied to the point that conspiracy theories are a distraction, nothing more. JMHO

    1. Shaky I say Donald Trump will trump them all & is USA’s last hope before we the people join our Armed Forces to coup this rogue out of control regime led by this Kenya born Islamic extremist leader of the muslim brotherhood in the White Mosque! Molan Labe!

    2. Chickenhawk please do your research on the Donald before you praise him too much. H has flopped on most major issues and has contributed to Hillary’s Campaign. Perhaps he has really changed but he was a hard democrat not long ago.

  116. Since the Posse Comitatus Laws were mention, there is a work around for that. One is to have special ops go through the federal law enforcement training. This provides them federal police powers and the vest say special ops police. US Strike Force used this as a work round in the 70, 80, & 90. The second is the National Security Act, which gives similar powers to work with the CIA.

    1. @ Joe,

      You are incorrect. Dual authority can NEVER be exercised at the same time. The military is quite aware that there are civilian officers of the law that also perform on Active Duty or get called to Active Duty as a Federal Reservists or National Guardsman. To prevent violations under Posse Comitatus, anyone performing official military duty must always do so under a numbered written order which ensures they are aware they fall specifically under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) while performing those duties. As such, they have no statutory powers of arrest under federal or local laws and may only conduct apprehensions and detentions under military authority.

    2. Joe and G-Man. I think the thing that maybe overlooked here is that in a SHTF scenario, and i am talking about a real SHTF event, all of the laws and oaths would become selective and followed as an individual saw fit. Every Confederate soldier that was in the US military and joined the Confederacy had sworn a oath to the US. Right? All the oaths and laws would go out the window as the country turned to a battle field. Again, just like the first Civil War personal beliefs and cause would split families, politicians and the military. Or am i just wrong……………………….

    3. @ McRuger,

      My reply was in regard to a badly needed correction on Joe’s comment when he inaccurately claimed that Posse Comitatus can be circumvented by training military as federal law enforcement, and thus it provides them with dual authority so-to-speak (paraphrasing here). It simply does not.

      My feedback was intended to set the record straight by citing the actual law as it applies to all personnel while on Active Duty Military and without regard to any other variables.

      The U.S. Military is highly trained and considered the best in the world. With that comes a high degree of discipline in maintaining the laws which govern their ranks. Their training emphasizes explicit preparation of each military individual to remain calm and orderly under the harshest conditions, which includes SHTF scenarios.

      However, that does not mean the military personnel are without flaws… as we’ve seen in recent cases from PFC Bradly Manning to Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl. So yes, it is true that some individuals will break down under the stress of war, but it is not the general rule.

      Nor was it the rule during the Civil War. Most of the South had felt the North committed a form of betrayal to the overall Union. Separation from the North and defense of the South was considered just as patriotic as the American Revolution was in separating from England and King George.

      But like all wars, after all is said and done there is a fate for those that refused to follow orders. They are sought out apprehended and prosecuted or pardoned based on each circumstance at the time.

      One last thing to remember, military personnel are regularly trained on the laws of armed conflict and the rules of engagement in each AOR. However, they are also warned they must defy an unlawful order or face the same prosecution as the officer that gave such an order.

      The criteria for knowing which orders to follow in unique combat situations are often left to the common sense of each individual. Let us pray all military personnel possess this in abundance.

  117. I read the article and I don’t see how anyone can tie Walmart and Blue Bell Ice Cream to martial law. I believe that this CTD article is going beyond the pale, like stretching farther than any CTD article I have ever read.

    But still, with all the past government and military escapades that G-Man outlined, I feel it’s OK that this article is written for people to at least think about.

    1. ss1,
      Thank you for your comment. Others have brought up via comment and email about some of the accusations in my article.
      Believe me; I did not make this stuff up. Last week, The ArmyTimes also reported on all the controversial theories surrounding Jade Helm. This article was based on reports that have been circulating around the Web for months…
      http://ow.ly/PQfEK

  118. I have been predicting for quite some time now that Obama will conjure a crisis that will allow him to declare martial law. I don’t believe our military will engage the American Public because they have friends and relatives who would be impacted by such an event on a National Level. And for those who do engage us there will be over 100 million armed Americans to contend with. So unless they can convince the military to destroy 1/3 or so of our current population Obama is likely to wind up a visitor at Guantanamo when the military carts his treacherous ass out of the White House to his new residence.
    That’s my thinking on the matter.

    1. Over 100 million gun owners….yes……but how do you get them organized in an emergency??

    2. Granny Grunch I have been concerned about the same thing. Fact is everything available can be traced, tapped, bugged or listened to. Face to face is about all that’s left.

    3. I agree with that, the government has the advantage of knowing what and when and the time to get it ready. The people on the other hand are busy tying to take care of their families and working for the government (taxes, if you didn’t pickup on that), our money that is used against us far too many times.

      If you try to line something up, people think you’re nuts and the government thinks you are seditious and anti government terrorist and looking to put you away. It may will turn out that civilian organization will be accommodated only after the initiation of M.L.

    4. Friend don’t forget that brothers fought on opposite sides of the civil war. There will always be s portion of people that don’t adhere to blood loyalty. Our military has already been compromised just like our government. It is truly a sad time in U.S. History as we know it.

    5. I personally don’t think Obama can pull of martial law unless he invites in foreign troops, which will set off a war. He has done everything possible to tick off the law enforcement community, the military, and most of the population of the USA. If he tries a coup, he is going to find himself swinging from a lamp post, and not by his hands. His political cronies might also think about how they are going to be judged by the people for supporting the most power hungry, corrupt administration in American history.

    6. “Obama is likely to wind up a visitor at Guantanamo when the military carts his treacherous ass out of the White House to his new residence.” … just the thought of seeing King Hussein Obama, behind bars, in Guantanamo … let that sink in.

  119. Well, I hate to sound paranoid , but in the last two months some young guy that lives in my neighborhood has showed up at my house 3 times unannounced, claims he is a Navy recruiter, we don’t know him and my son don’t know him, plus it’s been 930 and 10 o’clock pm when he knocks on door, very very weird , none of us know him and he acts kinda strange, not sure what the hell he is up to , but I’ll probably be calling the cops next time he shows up

  120. AFVET, I cannot find your comment to agree with you (The Shooter’s Log engine really sucks!), but you are correct.

    In my time in the military, my CONUS training locations included California, Idaho, Utah, Washington, Kentucky, South Carolina, Wisconsin and probably some others I can’t remember.

    Some were huge with thousands of troops and AFVs, others were small with a few units of Spec Ops types, but all were Americans training to defend America.

    Everybody needs to stay alert, but lay off the conspiracy theories.

  121. After going through all the comments and the article I have to add my 2 cents. I call myself a liberal redneck(I am a liberal in some areas and downright ultra conservative in others)
    I moved form a large city in CA to a little town in NV for many reasons which I will only give one. The people in this area are more self reliant here than any one in CA.
    I was a military brat and spent 20 plus years in the Army and Air Force combined. I am a college graduate so my skills at analysis is fairly well honed.
    So to the subject at hand JH15 is an exercise,not the first or largest to be done on US soil. It is the first(to my knowledge) to be held with in the civilian arena. This is the primary thing that causes me some concern. It is not unusual to see armed citizens on our streets but it is very unusual to see uniformed soldiers with weapons on the streets. And to be told that there will be some in civilian clothing also is a bit like some of the unstable countries of the world.
    All of the different theories discussed here are possible but not probable due to a lot if factors.
    This said I for one am on my guard for any and all of the possibilities and will resist to the best of my abilities any attempt to take my weapons or supplies,be it government,military or mob.
    Semper Paratis Improvise,Adapt,Overcome

  122. I hope that enough good soldiers who swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies foreign and domestic, will have the wisdom and courage to stand up against their commanders when they are ordered to fire on their fellow Americans, and turn on the true enemies of our country!

    1. @ Aardvark.

      I remember my Loyalty Oath, Sir. There was nothing mention about Self Protection. If the Person and/or Persons, I’m Constitutionally uphold to Protect. Start Shooting at me, I’m going to Shoot Back, regardless of what my Loyalty Oath said…

  123. You know what is really crazy? A person that takes the time to get on a forum just to tell someone else they are crazy for leaning towards an idea that something may be amiss in our government.

    I’ve always been one to find that where there is smoke, there is always a fire. Even when a story seemingly pans out not to be true, it was still a conspiracy created to distract. But of all the atrocious government conspiracies uncovered and confirmed in our history that turned out to in-fact be true, you would think the naysayers would know better by now.

    Imagine how blown away the pessimists where to find that the Church Committee discovered the Intelligence arm of our government known as the CIA really had committed secret government sanctioned assassinations of other leaders around the world for years. They even had to create a new law in order to have it stopped.

    These are the same people that still don’t believe verified conspiracies in which our own government has admitted to conducting deadly experiments on black males for 40 years by injecting them with Syphilis. Or the bacterial dispersion testing that occurred when the U.S. Navy sprayed biological pathogens from ships in the bay over San Francisco to see how far it would travel into populated areas, which caused many reported illnesses.

    Despite this, other conspiracies were covertly carried out by government personnel disguised as passengers by spraying bacteria in Washington National Airport. And more pathogens dropped from inside lightbulbs throughout the New York subway systems; as well as sprays released from jet aircraft over Texas to be monitored in Florida.

    How about the U.S. relocation of an entire island known as Bikini Atoll due to nuclear tests? The conspiracy was the lie told to the natives that they could shortly return. Many starved when they could not produce enough food after relocation. Worse though is our own U.S. troops purposely deceived during tests on ships within nuclear blast range.

    So for those that still balk at the prospects of Jade Helm as a potential government conspiracy, let us not forget the very real discovery from the 60’s when the Joint Chiefs of Staff approved a campaign to have operatives commit Cuban style terrorist attacks on U.S. soil, including killing U.S. citizens in cities, blowing up our own ships, and hijacking planes in hopes it would garner more public support for a war against Cuba and for the ultimate ouster of Fidel Castro and his dictatorship.

    And so I ask, who should really be wearing the tinfoil hats?

    1. As much as I dislike Obama or many military actions takin by him.about the people up in arms about this training exercise is crazy. People overreact. Have faith in your troops not to fire upon Americans. We are for the people and the constitution not lawmakers and abusive liberals. It is what it is, a training exercise. If anything request how you can help to better train this country’s soldiers, sailers, marines and airmen. Stop over reacting people, I disagree with much of the executive branch, but I don’t fire out by overreacting.

    2. Have faith in our troops? Sure but I sure as heck don’t trust those marxist weasels in DC. Bombo has been RIFING the military all along and maybe replacing them with his royal guard…….stay alert and REMEMBER THE ALAMO>0

    3. @ Unkown:

      Who and what exactly do you qualify as “overreacting”? Is getting on a forum and voicing some concern a bit overboard for you? Well hey then Shooter’s Log folks… SETTLE DOWN NOW!!! You’re making too much of a ruckus in these here forums and Unknown thinks you look craaaaaazy.

      Oh wait, maybe the overreacting “who” is the Governor of Texas himself, and the overreacting “what” is in him sending out his State Guard Troops to keep an eye on these federal operations because he finds it just as fishy as well. One government untrusting of another government… imagine that.

      So along with the consensus of the Governor of Texas, I think I’ve already made my point abundantly clear in my original post; that there is never a time in which we can let our guard down when it comes to trusting the government. If you think that is crazy then fine, but it just might keep the real crazies at bay knowing we got an eye on them.

    4. There would be a % that would fire on their own people…. but so far i have read nothing about the use of the U.N….Maybe our troops wouldn’t fire, but foreign troops would, and if led by commanders that have trained for such a scenario???It only takes a small number of commanders to employ a large number of troops…and this admin. has purged quite a few of military commanders out because they did not share same views as “the skunk” …..love my country, always fear my government….

  124. These exercises have been held before, this is nothing new except maybe in size. One fairly recent military training exercise was held in and around Jacksonville, NC the home of the Second Marine Division. Locals took pride in cooperating with and watching our Marines and other military performing training operations literally right on their front door at times.
    No laws were violated, no martial law was declared or practice for and no personal property rights were violated that I know of despite numerous articles in local media.
    I don’t trust the traitor in the white house any more than anyone else but I don’t believe even he is so full of himself that he thinks our military would turn against us en mass.
    I believe in watching and recording events, analyzing them, learning from them and even questioning them just as prudent precautions against a rouge government but I don’t believe we are in any danger.
    Although local national guard troops acted against citizens in New Orleans during and following Katrina, I believe that was a limited but big mistake that is likely not to be repeated, at least not on a national or large scale. Anyone so concerned should check out Oath Keepers and consider joining them, but without the tin foil hats.

    1. You obviously don’t remember the 1965 riots in Los Angeles. I was stationed at Fort Irwin and we were prept/trained for exactly what this exercise appears to represent. As for the excuse of operating in a terrain that might represent the next theater of war, doesn’t fly, since I also took part in a similar exercise to get the first ever Armor Battalion ready for Vietnam, and this was in the Mojave Desert near 29 Palms Marine base.

    2. Why is it called “operation” Jade Helm 15 instead of “exercise” Jade Helm then? Everybody is calling it an exercise now but when it was first brought to light it was OPERATION Jade Helm15…….An Op is an Op and an exercise is an exercise and if your military you know the difference like the man said in “The outlaw Josey Wales”…….”Don’t piss down my back and tell me it’s raining”

    3. Years ago, I was involved in two vanilla training exercises, years apart.
      One was Operation Lucifer’s Hammer. It was blowing abandoned mine shafts, as locals were getting lost and injured in them.
      Then, there was Operation Golden Hammer, a practice mobilization for war. We went to deployment site, drew all of our deployment gear, inventoried it and cleaned it, then sealed it back in the deployment bubbles.

      Both were trainig, they were still called operations.

  125. So the UN and the nwo want your guns
    so obama signs the small arms treaty
    So the UN wants your guns
    so obama try’s and stir race riots
    so the UN wants your guns

    If marshall law is called then the constitution will be suspended for 6 months and then the UN can send troops to GET YOUR GUNS…

    better wake up you say troops wont go along with marshall law? Really?

    It is all in the way its presented to them…. if riots brake out then they wouldn’t be going against the people but saving american…or terror attack….. doesnt matter how you got there just that you do…they also say jade helm soldier are going to try and blend in (take names) for practice, yet how will blending in with americans help them blend in with muslims?

    I wouldnt put it past the UN and obama setting our troops up, get our 1200 best troops then an attack happens and ML is on and UN troops just show up and catch our troops sleeping at 2am and arrest them for whatever and atleast Ive read were 200,000 returning troops from miseast have lost their right to a gun thru the VA…. the nwo cant wait forever…..
    nor can Revelation’s one world kingdom…..

    1. I’ll see the Easter Bunny and Santa at my house before any of this paranoid nonsense happens. The UN small arms treaty cannot be approved by Obama the boogeyman, the Senate must ratify all treaties. The misinformation presented by the tin foil hat brigade is really sad, time to stop seeing the big bad FEMA trains around every turn. Get some professional help, and be well.

  126. i have been reading through all the comments here and almost everyone seems VERY levelheaded about the Jade Helm Operation,…. that is saying a lot because clear logical thinking most of the time gets you farther than quick paranoid reactions. Here is my take as a simple observer…. I believe this is a training exercise for all the reasons the government has stated, BUT, there are people who’s job is to collect data from the general public’s reactions, to keeping an eye on the extremist groups…. the people in charge have had several months of information to compile on the public’s response from social media to public forums…. this creates a fairly reliable profile to generate a model of how the population would react…. our society uses data collection like this every minute of everyday, just look at the ads that get placed on web sites based on previous sites you have looked at….. it makes sense to me that the government would take advantage of this simple yet effective tool…. i do not think this is really a practice run for martial law, but they are, they are killing several birds with one stone….simply put, we CAN NOT trust the people in charge of our nation, 25 years ago Area 51 did not exist, now there are Discovery Channel television series about it, and the government says “yes we were lying the whole time, and its ok because it was in YOUR best interest”…. i my self will try to keep informed by trusting my instincts… keeping an eye on the things my guts tell me to keep an eye on and listening to all that i can, not taking ANYTHING for granted…

    1. You are exactly what obama, u.n. and other bloomberg follwers want you to believe. If you don’t have any prior military service, then your throwing darts at what you prefer to believe rather than being as our fighter pilots put it “Situational Awareness” or be blown out of the sky because you didn’t see it coming.

  127. Good information here from everyone. It is the consensus of many and I’ve been researching a lot on the subject as it peaked my interests. JH15 isn’t just about Martial Law, it is about “Mastering the Human Domain” just as the logo states. There are a lot of reasons the “elite” want to master the human domain so, they have created Jade Helm 15 a while ago and is now at its forefront. Here is the best explanation I have found concerning Jade Helm 15 at this link to YouTube titled Jade Helm 15: Covert Skynet.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN7cXj8-cGA
    What are the reasons? Command and Control of civilians. Why? Imminent economic collapse. Chem-Trails and HAARP, CERN LHC, making the Constitution null and void, the New World Order with a one World Government, Illuminati, Grand Masons and the list goes on. Jade Helm 15 is not about training for Martial Law necessarily, but is an Artificial Intelligence Program that will give the supposed “elite” the power and ability to take over. Martial Law, FEMA camps, Walmart, Blue Bell theories are real, yet the true meaning is hidden from the general public. Do I think Walmart and Blue Bell are in cohorts with the government? No. But I believe the government exercised “Eminent Domain” over certain properties to be utilized in the next coming months.
    If things go as “they” are planning, there is no way one will be able to hide for very long no matter how good one is at being a survivalist.
    As for our Armed forces personnel, I believe many will refuse to follow orders to institute Martial Law, however when the aforementioned events happen, Martial Law will be needed as there will be an uprising by citizens not seen before in U.S. history. As for me, in my own personal belief, faith, and patriotism, I will most likely fight against the coming tyrannical government and will probably die doing so. I’d rather do that than become a slave to a bunch of elite criminals who will have complete control of my entire life.
    Watch the link to the video, it will give everyone the very insight needed as to what Jade Helm 15 truly is and what it will be used for. And, no, it isn’t my video.
    Good luck to everyone!

  128. Jame H. actually this is the 15th Jade Helm training op. You guys can consider it whatever. To the general public there is little know about Special Operations Group. In the recent years they have become a little more public with websites. Special Operations Group or USSocom operates under Tittle 10 and Tittle 50 USC. The CIA operates under Tittle 50 USC. This governs what they can release to the general public. It was founded 1966 during the Vietnam War and was known as MACV-SOG. The CIA assisted in its birth. So there will be a realm of secrecy. It represents the elite of the elite of hand picked military forces. Example is Seal Team 6.

  129. Keep in mind that not all these 1200 military members are going to be okay with a plan to violate Posse Comitatus and their oath to the Constitution. If there is something smelly in the mix, someone is going to spill the beans to the American people. If so, they will be silenced quickly so pay attention.

    Having said this, I want to relate a story. Years ago I was part of an operation to train special forces to work with resistance movements. The exercise involved an SF Group, Army air wing and numerous grunts brought in for numbers, including university ROTC cadets (many of whom were prior service) to be the occupiers of a town. The exercise took over the town of Midway, Utah to include city government and emergency services. There were roadblocks, check points and all the things you expect to see in a military occupation. I was a member of the group who played the resistance, and believe me, hiding out in a hay loft in December in the mountains of Utah is a real treat. We met and hid a Special Forces A Team who parachuted in to execute their ARTEP mission of training the resistance.

    My point is this could have easily been construed as preparation for Marshall Law, and I’m sure that some people did take it this way, but it was just a training exercise. So, let’s stay frosty, keep our eyes open and see what happens, but let’s not jump to too many conclusions.

    When you think about it, a state like Idaho is much more likely to rebel than Texas, which is actually getting more like a Blue State every day.

  130. I have followed the JH15 Conspiracy Theorists with some degree of amusement. A few sounded pretty well based in reality, but most are well south of the Tin Foil cap line. Being retired military I will always insist that the majority of the military (or at least the Marines who I feel are a bit more on point) will not participate in any federal no-government move towards usurpation of the Constitution in whole or in part. That said we all remember the forced disarming of civilians during Katrina. The fact that the forced disarming was later found to be both unconstitutional and particularly heinous given the need for self protection by some of the disarmed parties does nothing to give me hope it will not happen again. All that said, I DO NOT trust our federal government in any way, particularly because the current leadership has shown itself to be not only anti 2nd Amendment, extremely biased against the armed American citizen, and the President in particular showing a very strong bias towards the Moslem religion. (I don’t believe he is a closet Moslem, just a very crappy excuse for a Commander in Chief.) When, not if, the radical elements of the Moslem jihadists start to commit acts on our own soil with more regularity will be the time that we will most need an armed American people. But I fear our current federal leadership will use that time as the reason to try and disarm our people. Yes, it may lead to a civil war within our borders, and yes, that will help the Moslem agenda. I just find myself hoping that our next President is more of an American and less of an apologist to the rest of the world.

    1. Why do you think 200,000 returning vets have had their gun rights taken away under obama thru the va…..

    2. I don’t know about the numbers but as a healthy Vietnam vet using the VA as my secondary medical provider, I can tell you the questions they ask are very pointed, especially toward ones mental state. If one says the wrong thing, one could potentially lose one’s 2A rights very easily. A week prior to my last physical I lost a long-time best friend, the VA nurse interviewing me asked how I was doing and I told her I was feeling a “little blue due to the recent loss of my friend” and when the doctor looked over the nurses notes, she asked how long I had been feeling “depressed”. “YIKES! Say What?” After some discussion, she removed that from my record (yes, I did check) but it makes me wonder how many lose their rights after a simple statement like that? If you’re a vet, be careful! Your doctor can put you in a position where you can lose your 2A rights very quickly.

    3. From 200,000 vets losing 2A to woulda, coulda, maybe, if ya ain’t careful,in 15’seconds or less. Major debate fail.

    4. Are you a vet? No? Then Why don’t you STFUand do some research? It is a fact that the gov’t has tried to dis arm returning vet’s, saying they may be domestic terrorists and that they may have the knowledge to build IED’S.

  131. I am deeply disappointed that CTD would publish this kind of paranoia and rumor in order to boost their survival gear sales. This is not information guys, it is garbage with no basis in reality or rational thought.
    Even worse is the insinuation that our military would issue or follow orders to round up citizens and declare martial law without a major disaster or breakdown in law and order. These young men and women are training to fight for our liberty, not to take it away. They are also training to protect your right to crawl in a hole and hoard your beenie-weanies at the least sign of trouble.
    But there is a positive. Closing one ice cream factories and 7 Walmarts is a brilliant military tactic to control a hostile population and cut off the supplies critical to an insurrection. Why has no one used this before?

  132. EVERY military person is sworn to uphold and defend the Constitutuion and the LEGAL orders of those appointed over them. Since no one has mentioned the Posse Comitatus laws, this precludes the military from operating domestically unles there’s a declaration of martial law; and your article states just how few times this has ever happened. NO U.S. military person is going to allow the country to be taken over unless there is a valid, legal emergency. Not going to happen. Consipracy theorists are morons!

    1. You haven’t been following the deceitful obama who has signed more executive orders behind the backs of Sennett and Congress because he knows a bill signed through an executive order if presented for a vote would die right there. BTW, I spent 22 years working for our government at a national laboratory and supported the u.s. dept. of homeland security’s first line of defense project.

    2. Executive Orders:
      Obama 47
      GW 36
      Clinton 45
      GHW 41
      Reagan 47
      Carter 80
      Ford 69
      Nixon 62
      FDR 290

      All Presidents sign Executive Orders

    3. It’s the contents of the Executive Orders that matter. BO has proven himself to be contemptuous of the Constitution and of the American people.

    4. That was my point. All presidents use it. Presidents that have a Congress that is more in line with him does not use it nearly as often as when they do not agree.

    5. I don’t mean to be respectful, but if you believe that no conspiracy theories ever end up being true, then you are a fool. There are far too many things going on to all be dismissed. The government hoarding survival food and ammunition, stripping soldiers of their constitutional rights, drugging our soldiers into psychosis, the military psychiatrists making the drug pushing to or soldiers a multi billion dollar business, the constant attacks on our constitution that the politicians swore to defend, the constant lies and deceit coming from Washington, our own president helping to incite riots, the IRS targeting conservative groups that go against the “New World Order” agenda, the government subsidized Planned Parenthood harvesting fetus organs to sell them. These are all just conspiracy theories until they become common knowledge.

    6. @ Aardvark.

      The Nuremberg Accords of 1946-49. Prevented Experimentation on Humans, the United States of America. NEVER Signed or Ratified those Accords.

  133. I am a retired First Sergeant, so I know all about the military.
    The thing that scares the hell out of me is the young soldiers that are being ask if they would kill some ones parents, brothers, any and all families.
    I watched a show the other day, they were asking some young marines if they would kill there own family. The answer was hell no. I hope this feeling runs through all military!!!! I don’t know if the children in school are being taught the constitution !!! All soldiers take an oath to defend this country against all enemies foreign and domestic!!!! I can only pray that this never happens.

  134. I’ll put in my 2 cents now. I think this type of training makes perfect sense for the types of conflicts we can expect in the near future. And if the JH conspiracy theorists are right, and I don’t mean to imply that they are not, and the training is for right here in the United States, well, maybe there could be good reason. 10 years ago I pretty much laughed it off when people talked about domestic invasions and the collapse of government, but today I’m not laughing. Our military may need to take over in order to stop that total collapse. Hopefully, that won’t happen. But if it does I don’t believe it will be against us. I believe we will be caught up in the middle.

    1. OHHHHH Indiana Steve please don’t say, FOR OUR OWN GOOD. That’s even worse that “because it’s the right thing to do”. I firmly believe that events are being orchestrated to make us believe that additional government intervention is for our own good. An analysis of events and responses over the past 7 years pretty much bears that out.

  135. Jade Helm ain’t a takeover.. Domestic tension is nowhere near the mid-1800’s, ya’ll want to use that analogy…we’re at the ‘Bleeding Kansas’ stage…far cry from the Maryland referendum.

    Why is Texas labeled “Hostile”? For the sake of excessive Texas is playing OPFOR, from the looks of the map TX is playing ‘not Iran’ and Utah is playing ‘not ISIS/Syria’. If this was a ttransparent overthrow Arizona would be blood red too (they’ve been extremely pro 2nd Amendment and the most likely to go against the grain any Democrat Tyranny)

  136. Do you all remember :
    Cliven Bundy, the in the southern Nevada county, who stood in defiance of a 2013 court order demanding that he remove his cattle from public land managed by the U.S. Department of the Interior’s Bureau of Land Management?
    I spoke with a man that told me when a bunch of 2nd Am guys showed up, they were asked and did leave their AR’s in their trunks but openly carried their sidearms.
    My understanding is that the govt backed down and stopped their illegal push when potentially there could be ramifications. `1200 soldiers working for pay sounds like a very small number compared to the millions of 2nd A patriots protecting their lives.
    We will stayed tuned……

  137. Big whoop, “1,200 troops”. I recall the Carolina Maneuvers of the late ’50s that involved three divisions and tens of thousands of soldiers, I even participated in the multi-division Air Assault tests of the early ’60s.
    I distrust this anti-American administration as much as anybody, but I can”t find myself upset about Jade Helm.

  138. Interesting piece, Suzanne, but a true Texan knows that the apostrophe comes after the Y in “y’all.”

  139. Obama will stand up for Trayvon but not for the woman murdered in San Francisco by the illegal. Obama will urge demonizing the Confederate flag but fails to mention africans were enslaved in the Americas for 300 years prior to the existence of the Confederate States of America.
    Obama is trying his best to divide this nation. He wants one or several of you gun owning hard chargers to gift him the reason to bring down something like you all fear.
    I’m praying for domestic peace. I’m praying that no Caucasian veteran lifts so much as a BB gun in anger or in the commission of a crime.
    Let’s sit back and guard ourselves from the Islamic threats he has allowed in and let the authorities focus on that threat.
    I lost 4 Marine brothers and 1 sailor last week. Where is Obama? I’m sure he is trying to come up with a way to describe it as workplace violence again.

  140. Seems to me that judging from the states involved that they are training to repel an invasion from the Southern boarder and the extraction of already imbedded insurgents. I believe that is the reason those states are labeled as being hostel. If that is the case then yes Martial Law is a sure bet.
    As the military’s job 1 is to seek and destroy I would suggest to keep a white flag handy just in case because opposition is what they live for. If you noticed the news reports of the build up of the military in Communist countries lately you would start to see a pattern developing. The fear being is who’s side our military will be on. Remembering what the U.N. is up to and what they said about dis-arming our country.

  141. Politicians can NOT be trusted. They are in politics for a reason. They have high opinions of themselves and look down on the common middle class who keep this Nation alive. Political community service is now more self-service than the other, when it comes to these same politicians. I love this Country, but I do NOT trust those running our Government. Let me repeat that…I love this Country…I do NOT trust those running our Government. That is a fact. God Bless America and God Bless Texas!

  142. I agree with “indiana steve.” The thoughts of martial law seem to send people in an uproar. We have to come to a point in time to realize that ISIS/ISIL and the Mexican Cartels are slowly escalating in this country. If the feds can not control it, they might be a time special ops will have to go into neighborhoods to engage them. This requires training.

    1. I appreciate your support but I think you might have made a mistake. I really haven’t made any comments on this subject, except quoting the definition of “Muslim”.

  143. I have read every bit of information I could find, spent countless hours scouring the internet for all points of view on this subject and I have reached a conclusion. A survey of the geography of the areas involved and they do indeed conform to the topography of Afghanistan, Iran and Pakistan from the Mountains in the west to the flat desolate expanses of Texas, New Mexico and Arizona so that argument holds water. The closings of various Wal Mart’s without credible reasoning (plumbing issues at several stores at the same time?) I don’t know what that means but Wal Mart conspiring with the Federal Government? just seems very unlikely…. The one variable that is a total wild card, speaking as a United States Marine Veteran, is exactly that. Our Military is made up of Americans with friends and families all over this country and I would like to think that the majority of those men are of the same mind set as me and all the men that I served with and therefor would never support a coup or any overthrow of our duly elected constitutional republic. I am more in fear of Obamas “pen and phone” style of governance and a congressional body that in in fear of him than our military. Let them play their games but keep one eye on the sneaky bastards in charge at all times…

    1. Steven, you have said very well and more to the point what I was attempting to say. I will add nothing to it except to say you are exactly on point. (And like you I am a retired Marine with 23 years active duty.)

    2. Nah wally world wouldnt work with the government nah…. did you forget when they were fine with stopping all sale of ammo if it was ruled that way….. then they had only 3 boxes of ammo a day not so everyone would get some but so they could keep you from getting alot…..

  144. The problem with Jade Helm 2015 is the lack of information to the public BEFORE implementation. It makes some sense that the military would practice geographic areas they have picked. If this is preparation for operations in and against middle eastern geography. A country as large as Texas might emulate a country the size of Iran. A part of southern Cal might be similar to Kuwait. I’m just sayin’. Personally, I am as ready as I can be for anything that comes but I am not fantasizing about martial law or anything that absurd at this time. If you let your mind wander you might think the major reason for martial law would be if Obama tried to stay in office beyond his Constitutional limit. I think that would be outrageous but it has happened. I think Obama is tired, has done all the damage he wanted, and is ready to take the money and play eternal golf. Interesting subject. I am keeping my mind open but do not think Jade Helm is practice for a take over. I do think it is good practice for our military since we aren’t fighting a war anymore. Just in case, keep your powder dry.

    1. Agreed.

      Obama only ever wanted to be president to further his socialist agenda and live the high life. I agree, he has done what he came to do, and now like all people of his ilk, he just wants to play golf and be a big shot in the Liberal arena, have dinner with rappers and crappers, sign autographs and write worthless books about how cool he is.

  145. Although i dont trust the gov either, if you guys really think they are planning something against us do u really think they would have announced it? Training exercises take place all the time, this isnt a new thing. It is one thing to keep notice what our gov is doin but its another thing when people go into
    panic mode and think ‘they are coming for me!’ and create mass histeria. You must think highly of yourself that out of all the worlds criminals that the gov is targeting you instead. Really? Cmon guys. Use common sense. As much as i hear about SHTF scenarios on the internet i sometimes wonder if some, not all, but some of these people actually WANT something to happen. Fact is, no one is as truly ready as they think they are. If somthing were to happen and they want to find you, with the technology they have, you will be found. You cannot fight a whole squad of troops either. You aint rambo and neither am i so stop livin in a fantasy land. Whatever they are doin it probably is shady but everything they do is shady to some degree. That dont always mean “oh lord they are comin for me”

  146. I’m in Texas (“I wasn’t born here but I got here as fast as I could.”) and if Jade Helm were to go bad, the usurping military forces could likely face the same levels of local insurgency as they might face in Afghanistan, Somalia, Syria, Yemen, or other places where American soldiers may not belong.

    Yes, many Texans would be killed. But until every Texan were dead, every invading troop would potentially face lethal force. Additionally, many Texan members of the US armed forces might change sides to defend home and family, and to support their oath the defend the US Constitution. And that’s the way it is in Texas.

    Funny, nobody ever figured out that it’s the same way in most Middle Eastern nations — men will fight to defend their homes and families, in spite of their allegiance to an unpopular government and a foreign occupying army. And as with the locals in the Middle East, Texans in Texas have the home field advantage.

    It is my most fervent wish that the Jade Helm activities are uneventful, proceed as promised, and conclude without incident.

  147. Trump is getting a lot of attention and I have read a lot of posts from people that think hes great. However, before people get to excited they should do some research. Trump has flopped on nearly every important issue in the past couple years and he has contributed to Hillary’s campaign. I am not sure what his game is but i think there are much, much better candidates.

  148. My father was a Christian. I am not. Adherence to any one Dogmatic religion is a choice, not a birthright anymore than my father being a member of the armed forces makes me a soldier. Your premise is faulty, so your conclusions are, too.

  149. I personally have a hard time believing that the government would really try and pull something like this off. I don’t believe it’s an impossibility, but rather far fetched at best. I say this because I do not believe the military is ready to fight itsnown people. There would be a Ruby Ridge on every corner of every street in the US. It absolutely would be the end of this country. Not to mention take pressure off threats that are imminent such as ISIS. I could be wrong. But it would get very ugly, very fast. 80million gun owners in this country. Fair to say the majority are very well trained with their weapon. Combined, would create the real Army of ONE. But should something break loose, kiss everything you have ever dreamed of doing out the window. Our country would be no more. Never to be fixed and nothing like it was the precious 200 years. May as well be prepared to die. Because you would wish you were dead. A lot will die from a broken heart watching it all spiral down the toilet.

  150. Maybe the “Threat” of Martial Law is just the diversion while the REAL threat to worry about is being prepared. Let’s face it, our illustrious Leaders KNOW, without a doubt, they could NOT win in a straight on Martial Law takeover scenario of OUR country. But, if they manage to get an “Official” Declaration of War against the TOTALLY MANUFACTURED ISIS threat, then caused False Flag Op or multiple False Flag Ops to occur on American soil, then declared the WHOLE of America was a “War Zone”, that would open up the opportunity to put in play a “War Powers Act” similar to the one that FDR instituted the day after Pearl Harbor and a second one shortly thereafter. This would be WAAAAAAAAAY worse than mere Martial Law. Ask yourself why the push for an official declaration anyway when they haven’t given a Rat’s Ass who approved or disapproved of our deployments since WW2. I bet the documents are already written and waiting. Please correct me if I’m wrong that THAT scenario would be doable and worse for us.
    Also, look at Trump as a Judas Goat who is ONLY running to push ALL the buttons of “Right-Wing Conservatism” and take votes and attention AWAY from REAL, Viable, DANGEROUS to “Them” candidates such as Perry. Just sayin

    1. The way things are going I fear this is within the realm of possible future action by these lying pin heads in Washington and a lot of our states.

      At my age, 73, I’m pretty well done and don’t really care how I go out but I fear for my kids and grandchildren. I just hate to see this country I love torn apart by these moronic fools.

      Some politician, whose name I don’t recall, when I was a kid predicted that you could take over the country if you blanketed it in the flag. The red states on the map above aren’t likely to be taken over without a fight so that probably explains it. It looks too much like it’s RED Dawn coming only with our own troops. We need to impeach these clowns and all their henchmen while we still can. What do you think?

    2. I think you’re about as close to right as anything else.

      The recent tragedies, I believe are either being orchestrated by someone, or at the very least they are being take full advantage of. It’s just that their timing is impeccable. They only happen right at the beginning of a new push for gun control.

      I wish I could find a decent link (that is not some conspiracy theorist web site) about the means that have been developed to implant thoughts into people’s minds via something-or-other. I’d rather not make claims here for the sake of being wrong on the means. But that technology has either been leaked or declassified. It would explain how someone who seemed to be a peaceful Kuwaiti immigrant, engineer, and employed, would change into someone who would specifically target military installations (recruitment being moth direct and symbolic of the apparent desires). It would also hint at how possibly someone goes suddenly to shoot up (he originally planned a university, according to his friends who were interviewed) a church.

      But for both, the timing is absolutely undeniable.

      If gun control does not pass this time, they will likely want to try more.

      Just like when the Clinton gun control didn’t mean that people permanently stopped buying scawy bwack wifles, Obama wanted gun control that never expired. Then he wanted gun laws like in Canada. Then he said he wants gun laws like in Australia. And while he thought gun control would pass, he complained that the Constitution constrains him from doing what he wants (really: search for “obama constrained by the constitution” and you’ll find videos of this).

      And now what? Another push for gun (people) control, new studies supposedly proving that firearm use does not stop or prevent crimes (despite transparent studies previously proving the opposite), a new higher-than-ever push for social Marxism and straight forward Socialism (one of the Democrat candidates is quite proud of being a Democratic Socialist, and nobody on the left even blinks), followed shortly by two more major shooting events in the news.

    3. nick, all theories are worth considering.

      I agree that straight up Marshal Law would result in a long, grinding insurgency that would probably last for years and would even be supported by enemies like Russia and China, who would love to see the USA embroiled in a civil war . . which no one wants. Certainly not true Patriots or our pathetic excuse for a government.

      But I also have to say that ISIS and the Muslims are not a manufactured threat, as the past 10 years in the Middle East have taught me. The real threat is that our POTUS and his band of buffoons is too stupid to even admit a threat exists.

  151. President Oboma wants a third term but under law he can not have it unless there is a state of martial law in effect. My theories are that there will be a uprising by some groups against another group and martial law will go into effect before the 2016 election. The stage has been set now action will be taken. Just s thought.

    1. And if you’re completely wrong? Will you come back with head bowed and cheeks flushed and admit that your theory was as hair-brained as it sounds to reasonable people? I kind of doubt it, because as the election approaches there will be twice as many mad conspiracy theories to choose from, and you will correctly surmise that anyone that gave thought to a “third term” has a predictably short attention span as you do.

      This is quite literally madness, folks. You really do need to get a grip on Reality and learn to think in a logical manner. The world is laughing at you, for good reason.

    2. Did it hurt to write this? It certainly hurt to read it. Talk about ill informed and just plain wrong. But, that’s Texas for ya. A lot of hot air, very little oxygen.

  152. It’s sad that people think the U.S. Military is out to get them. We train all the time in the U.S., it would be stupid if we didn’t. I lived in TX for years and I’m embarrassed that some are so dumb to believe the conspiracy theories. If you think the govt is out to get you, move to North Korea.

  153. Jade Helm is not first largest training exercise. There have been many more before it. The reason is the combat terrain has changed. The type of martial law is asymmetric martial law. Example it can be used to lock down a subdivision area to clear it of threats. This is were asymmetric warfare would come into play. So if you live in Texas there are many phases to the training operation and some of those are tactical support and covert operations.

  154. What’s gonna happen when some ‘dumba$$’ 2nd lt. runs up on a redneck Texan and tells him/her to stop and submit to a search of their body/car and they refuse? I’ll tell you what’s gonna happen, all hells gonna break loose and some poor soldiers are gonna die, cause that Texan is gonna shoot the crap outta them GD YANKEE troopers!!!!!!!! NOBODY in their right friggin mind tells a Texan who is mindin their own business to stop and be frisked by some YAHOOES!! We Texans got more “LEGAL” machine GUNS” than the military*which should scare the crap outta OBAMA) and we’re NOT afraid to use them!!!!!

  155. We have tried to keep them out of office and as you know it appears that the 2 party system is just 2 sides of the same coin. Unless the 2016 election produces a REAL conservative it’s pretty much over for America.

    1. I agree that we’ve had some serious queen of the pigs choices lately, but 2016 is a water shed – anyone not voting for the Republican, even if it leaves a bad taste in the mouth, IS voting for Hitlery (or what ever other socialist/fascist the Dems put up) – NOT voting IS voting for the left wing criminal – people can claim moral superiority all they want for not voting for McCain or Romney be they weren’t THEIR kind of conservative, those same morally superior dimwits insured Obama bin Laden got elected, so how’d that work out for you??

      Voting for the Rep means voting AGAINST the Dem – NOT voting is the equivalent of voting for an Obozo third term to continue to destroy this country

      Sometimes the medicine tastes bad, but it’s better than the alternative – we and the country all lose even more than we already have if another Dem wins the WH – apply the same rationality to every other office being elected to insure we have a buffer against the rampant destructive narcissistic psychosis called progressivism

      Keep in mind, 50 years and over $20 trillion pissed down the liberal program drain has destroyed the family unit and economically enslaved those they claimed they wanted to help, effectively bankrupted the country, and put our economy into a death spiral of no longer accounted for unemployment, replacing good paying jobs with part time low paying jobs and calling it a boom, massive wealth transferred from the middle class to both the not interested in working and the power elite classes, and exploded racial divisiveness, class warfare, and the centralized, intrusive nanny state

      Think long and hard before anyone asserts moral superiority and chooses to not vote in the next election – in your inaction, you will be signing your John Hancock to the coming end of the declaration of independence

    2. As much as I agree with most everything you said, Archangel; if the Rino’s would quit putting forward such poor candidates, there wouldn’t be that challenge. 2016 looks like a much better opportunity to select a Patriot and Conservative, but the GOP machine can still put a “wolf in sheep’s clothing” in it. Many of us, and I am particularly feeling this way, I am sick of voting for the least of the evils. Give me a Godly, Conservative, Constitutional Presidential candidate, and maybe we won’t all be taken away into captivity like Daniel 2,500 years ago. The righteous do get swept away with the wicked.

    3. Archangel don’t get me wrong. Just because i am frustrated with the GOP it does not mean i am staying home or voting 3rd party. I will vote for any of the GOP candidates before i’d vote dumbocrat. I advise everyone else do the same.

    4. Hitlery? Obama bin Laden?

      Time to grow up and stop this juvenile name-calling. These are serious times that call for serious conservative thought, not conspiracy mongering based on flights of fancy and emails from your Uncle Herb who got his PhD watching Fox News all day.

      I’m no fan of the president, and I’m an avid shooter. But it’s time to stop with the tinfoil hattery. It makes the rest of us look crazy, and makes us easy to dismiss by people who conduct their lives based on actual reality and evidence instead of ugly, angry, seditious conspiracy mongering. The rest of the world is laughing at you, and you are driving voters away from the GOP in droves..

      If you actually think that American troops, sworn to uphold the Constitution, are going to attack American citizens, then you aren’t thinking straight.

      And when Jade Helm ends with none of this crap coming true (just like all the other conspiracies that haven’t come true), an honest person would think hard about their faulty decision-making processes, and apologize to the people around them for the idiotic fear mongering. But no, that never happens. You’ll just look for the next idiotic conspiracy theory and further marginalize the conservative cause. How’s that working out for you?

    5. Wow. Why is it that “Fox News” is always used as negative, yet MSNBC is never mentioned (for how crazy left they are)? I watch nearly every news outlet. Fox perfect? Of course not. But if you think you’re getting “News” from them, or any of the other major outlets, I feel for you.
      And sworn troops have never attacked Americans?? Um, Kent State ring your bell? How about the sheriff, state troopers, and even National Guard not only shooting at “citizens”, but forcing their way into homes to find and confiscate all firearms during Katrina?
      The America you seem to think exists disappeared a long time ago, but we’ve past the point of no return now, and a hard reset is now the only “fix” we have left, since all like you have pretended and excused away, the unchecked corruption in politics and the slow chipping away at the constitution of our country.
      The wake up isn’t going to be a pleasant one, my only hope is that we have not slipped so far down into the abyss that we won’t be able to crawl out of it.

    6. How is voting for someone who talks conservative in primaries, but after the election gives the “Progressives” everything they want?

      No one will get my vote for Congress or Senate without a pledge to remove Boehner and McConnell from leadership!

    7. Archangel hits it spot on . .

      would I prefer a Libertarian or Constitutionalist? Of course I would.

      Is anyone from a third party or independent going to get elected? Of course they’re not.

      So why should I throw my vote away on someone who hasn’t got a snowball’s chance in Hell of being elected and by so doing, water down the Conservative vote to guarantee the stinking Democrat wins. Are republicans what we really need? No, but they’re a heckuvalot better than the Liberal liars and socialists who are the only other alternative.

      So everyone better stop slamming the Republicans and voting for people who will only get about .01% of the Electoral vote or we’re all screwed and all you folks who want to fall back on armed resistance will get your wish. And having spent a lot of years in the military and law enforcement, I can tell you that you will not win.

    8. Tell me honestly that you think, no matter what you might think of Romney as a RINO or not, that he wouldn’t have been light years better and far less destructive than Obozo?

      Sometimes the lesser evil is the ONLY choice – otherwise, by inaction you choose the GREATER evil by default.

      We should all work to make a real fiscal conservative the candidate, but failing that we need to regroup and prevent the Dem from winning no matter what – an Obozo third term will be pouring salt into an already gaping head wound to the country

      And the best way for RINOs like Boehner and McConnell to be removed is for their respective states to wise up and stop electing such douche bags

  156. If you look close enough, you will find the OJH is part of the Obama plan, or at least of his political party. Something similar almost happened under Bill Clinton. My history is a little fuzzy, been out of high school 50 years, but I remember something about ‘Martial Law’ suspension of Habeas Corpus and such prior to or during WW1. But, back to Clinton and the Demos. Clinton had U.S. Troops training with foreign troops and had swore to suspend The Constitution, if he didn’t get reelected. Don’t think that I am the only one that remembers this.
    If it has happened before, you can bet that someone will think of it again; Obama, anyone.
    Prepers, and you know who you are. Don’t think for a minute that the Feds don’t know who you are. Best bet, when the s–t hits the fan, and it will, have your ‘bug-out-bag’ ready. Hunt, fish, live of the land. They will find your cache of food, ammo and weapons. For good measure, watch ‘Red Dawn’ and if you can find it ‘Shadow on the Land’. Red Dawn, everyone knows. Shadow on the Land; the prez declares martial law, and The Constitution to be, ‘Null & Void’, enforces this by using the military.

    1. Cite your sources or none of it happened except within your head and the echo chamber. Cite your sources about Clinton.

    1. #fail…sorry had to do it,but honestly yeah i figure something big is in the works,probably set for around the next election,if its something along the level most here seem to think it is. if the current regime isnt happy with who gets elected,then yeah i could see some type of takeover going down ,but while some of the military will actually follow such orders,the majority wont,many will actually end up on the peoples side fighting the traitors seeking to overthrow the constitution. probably why no-ones really tried as of yet.most police will be the same,they’ll be right beside the people.whowever the gov can always go to the less than law abiding parts of our country,the ones who care nothing for the hard working people who just want to live thier lives,and the gov will almost certainly find a very willing army among st the assorted gangs and hate groups out there,offer them the moon and stars,arm them and turn them loose on the people,it wouldn’t really work,but it would insure that every part of the country would devolve into chaos giving the gov a chance to implement other plans with the goal of making the people submit to their will.

  157. For myself I am like a squirrel without a bushy tail, but my weapons are stored in different places, so if we had Martial Law if and when I can get their I will be armed and ready. They restrict driving mostly at night. So as they say is today a good day to die?

  158. ” The Enemy of My Enemy MIGHT Be My Friend?”.

    Several years ago while on vacation, on a nice spring day. I was reading the Local Paper in Washington States. When Activity caught my the corner of my eye. At first i thought it was the Local Wildlife the area was famous for. Then two Hunter’s (as I thought a the time) appeared, followed by at least ten other’s, all dress in Tiger Strip Camouflage Fatigues. Carrying either AK’s or AR’s, and the odd thing all in Face Paint. My first though, was a group of Hunters and NO Peace and Quite Today. I found out later, that they were “Militia” members on a training exercise in that area. Great for the Tourist Industry, being Killed while on Vacation. With my Wife and Children just inside the Cabin, if I had a Gun available. I shutter to think what might of happened. Cut my Vacation Short, and went home, at least there I know who the REAL ENEMY IS.

    1. @ jake d.

      I don’t know! It’s gotten to the point, where I really don’t know anymore. I sat in on a Talking Group of Two Separate “Militia” Groups. That lived within twenty-five miles of each other, and couldn’t agree on anything. If THEY DON’T KNOW, how in Hell am I Suppose to Know…

    2. Secundius. I know that feeling. I have visited a few militia sites and seen the same thing. Even like minded people are all over the map. Hell the posts on this site are proof of that.

    3. Gotta tell you there Secundius, THAT is most definitely one of the MOST ignorant comments I’ve EVER read. People like YOU are the CORE of the problem in this country. You reproduce AND are allowed to vote.

    4. I’ll tell you Nick I think the enemies of this country are pretty obvious and It’s time they were removed.

    5. @ nick.

      Sir, I was invited there as a Observer to the Discussion Group, NOT a participating Member or Mediator of the Group. NOBODY ASKED ME TO CONTRIBUTE, my view points to the Group. If you Don’t Like It, LUMP IT…

  159. 8000 people from the middle east Islamic countries are allowed to come into our beloved country EACH MONTH.If only 1% are radicalized we have a problem.Perhaps this exercise is a prelude for a Jihadi coordinated attack on us? Take my firearms? Yeah , sure ,muzzle end first.

  160. I don’t think people should confuse training by the military for ostensibly legitimate reasons for people in the services NOT obeying illegal orders to violate the Constitution and suppress the American People. In my opinion they are two different issues. One, they cannot refuse to train and two they can refuse to perform illegal orders. In my opinion the military will not engage the American Public since they would in effect be directly or indirectly fighting their own friends and families. The will stand down, desert or revolt and lock that Muslim President of ours away in Guantanamo where he belongs.

    1. “Muslim President.” See? If there is martial law ever imposed, it will be a direct result of idiots acting on absurd statements like that.

    2. I would argue that you and idiot not knowing that is exactly what Obama is! Do some damned research other than MSM and then get back to reality moron! BTW it is no accident that Jade Helm list these states as hostile to the government. They are only hostile to a corrupt government like Obama’s! The same day the 4 marines were killed you lord and savior Obama was congratulating Islam on Ramadan!

    3. I agree, he’s not Muslim – he’s a Muslim kowtowing anti-Christian race baiting Marxist with pathological narcissistic disorder who never held a legit job in his life and has taken every opportunity in his political leeching to funnel other peoples money into his and his friends pockets

    4. @Tominerd,

      BHO has expressly criticized Americans for “clinging to [our] guns and religion” and has refused to apologize for that implicit repudiation of the First and Second Amendments.

      BHO is the son of a Muslim father; under Islamic law, he IS a Muslim.
      BHO has 2 names used almost exclusively by Muslims. What percentage of people whose name includes “Barack” and “Hussein” do you think are NOT Muslim, compared to those who are?
      He refuses to characterize radical Islam as such.

      Those are facts. Deal with them.

      It is an accurate and absolutely appropriate rhetorical spin to call BHO a “Muslim” — regardless of what religion he may profess to follow on any given day for his own political reasons.

      It demonstrates extreme bias and close-mindedness for you to use “absurd” to characterize the factually accurate and rhetorically appropriate statement that BHO is a Muslim.

    5. @ petedub.

      Obama’s father was born a Luo-Roman Catholic and later converted to Islam. Barack Obama, is a Protestant. Under the 65 NYLU revised 479 Race and Ethnicity Law of 1990. Seed Father, no longer determines Race or Ethnicity. Birth Mother DOES, technically under the 1990 retroactive law. Barack Hussein “Barry” Obama, the II is “White”.

    6. Guess you don’t understand that no one is BORN a particular religion – they CHOOSE a religion. Barry is definitely NOT a Protestant – if he has any actual religious leaning, it’s to the Marxist-based theology of black liberation that his buddy Rev Weight pumped into so many empty heads

    7. Definition of “Muslim” (from the Oxford American English dictionary).

      “A follower of the religion of Islam.”

  161. Jade Helm is whatever it is. Certainly I have read all the theories watched the You Tubes and will continue to pay attention to whats going on. However I as a responsible adult am preparing for any type of catastrophic event which includes in my opinion unwarranted martial law, continued government over reach or infringement on my rights. Considering the state of the world, the country and our present administration mixed in with the always present danger of natural disasters I don’t understand how anyone could go through life without some degree of contingency planning.

  162. The paranoia over Jade Helm totters between the totally laughable and the extremely absurd. Ask yourself this: The American soldier is a product of mid/rural America. Do you really think your sons and daughters, your brothers and sisters, are going to go door to door seizing guns on behalf of Obama? Or, in your paranoia, do you think there will also be political commissars (black, no doubt) shooting anyone not going along with the program?

    Shaking my head….

    1. Rick, I do not think our fellow citizen-soldiers will seize guns on behalf of Obama. However, looking back on Katrina, guns WERE seized. If the cause seems noble and just, our troops will do their duty until it becomes clear they are being used. They follow orders. Questioning the validity of those orders can be very difficult: a well-crafted crisis can be hard to tell from a real one. I think that’s the concern many Americans are feeling, because they just don’t trust the Obama government.

    2. Rick, agree 100% the hilarious part is that when JH turns out to be just a training program and ends without incident, none of these tinfoil hatters will change their opinion one iota.

      They’ll fabricate some other ridiculous story about why it didn’t happen–probably due to their own vigilance. “If we hadn’t been on top of that traitor Obama bin Laden he woulda done it, but we done skeered him good.”
      They’ll congratulate themselves on saving the country and go flipping over cowpies looking for the next ridiculous conspiracy.

      There’s a group of people that seem to base their intellectual lives on logical fallacies (confirmation bias, cherry picking, circular reasoning, straw man…); a whole heap of them have washed up in this forum.

      Pretty sure the anti-spam question is filtering out a bunch of them.

    3. To believe that some (not all mind you) of our Military would not go door to door and disarm the public is to blatantly disregard what happened during Katrina. And what became the birth time of Oath Keepers.
      The ability to brainwash the population and members of the Military is being exercised daily by the “lame stream media” and all of the pundits who ramble on every night.
      I would suggest reading from alternative media sources, from within other countries where the State Department overreach and influence has no power.
      Then make a better informed decision about what’s going in our country

  163. I’ve been prepping for several years but am not prepared for an assault by federal troops. To be sure, we will, as a nation, not survive martial law unless we lived in a mountain area or an area where there are lots of cover where we couldn’t be spotted by drones. With technology as it is today, the government has and will always have the upper hand. The best way to stop martial law is not to allow it to start in the first place and that is to stop any administration from imposing martial law by keeping them out off office.

    1. I wish just keeping them out of office was that simple. Even if my favorite candidate made it to the Oval Office, I would not have that kind of confidence. They gotta play ball or wind up with a self inflicted gunshot wound to the back.

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