Seattle Sued Over Guns and Ammo Tax Scheme

National Shooting Sports Foundation Logo

The Shooter’s Log wants to inform our readers that two gun owners, two retailers, and three national gun groups have sued the City of Seattle over adoption of a retail sales tax on guns and ammunition. They are challenging the City of Seattle’s recently approved sales tax of $25 on each firearm sold and five cents for each round of ammunition (two cents for .22 caliber).

Second Amendment FoundatonThe city ordinance was labeled a “gun violence tax,” but the City Council nevertheless approved the measure on Aug. 10 and Mayor Ed Murray signed it last week. The lawsuit, filed in King County Superior Court, names as defendants Mayor Ed Murray, the city’s Department of Finance and Administrative Services, and that department’s director, Glen Lee. See our previous coverage of the issue here.

The suit asserts that Washington State’s 33-year-old state preemption law does not allow cities, counties or political subdivisions to enact laws relating to firearms, unless state law authorizes those local regulations.

The local plaintiffs include two individuals: Philip Watson, “… an individual residing in Lakewood, Washington,” who intends to continue purchasing ammunition in Seattle, and Ray Carter, “an individual residing in West Seattle” who will not be able to continue purchasing guns and ammo “if the firearm and ammunition tax is imposed and the cost is passed on to the consumer.” NRA LogoOther local plaintiffs include two of the city’s firearms retailers—Outdoor Emporium and Precise Shooter LLC. According to the lawsuit, Outdoor Emporium is the largest firearm and ammunition retailer in Seattle. The suit says, “Outdoor Emporium retails firearms and ammunition to consumers, approximately 70% of whom are non-Seattle residents. Outdoor Emporium also wholesales ammunition to other retailers in the Seattle area.” The second business plaintiff is Precise Shooter, LLC, which, according to the lawsuit, is “… a retailer of firearms and ammunition that specializes in serving sportsmen and women seeking products for highly accurate target shooting, as used in shooting sports, competitive events, ranges, and hunting.” According to a release by the Second Amendment Foundation (SAF), it and the NRA have previously cooperated in lawsuits against New Orleans, San Francisco and Seattle, the last suit overturning a previous attempt by then-Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels and his successor, Mike McGinn, to prohibit legally carried firearms in city park facilities. This legal action marks the first time NSSF has joined with SAF and NRA in a lawsuit.

“NSSF has no alternative but to be an active party in this lawsuit against the City of Seattle’s attempt to interfere in the lawful commerce in firearms and ammunition on the grounds that it violates Washington State’s preemption statute that blocks cities from regulating the sale of firearms on their own.” said Lawrence G. Keane, NSSF Senior Vice President and General Counsel. “The Seattle ordinance is nothing but a ‘poll tax’ on the Second Amendment and an effort to drive Seattle’s firearms retailers out of business.”National Shooting Sports Foundation Logo “Once again, anti-gun activists in Seattle have chosen to violate the Washington State Constitution and trample upon the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens,” said Chris Cox, executive director of NRA’s Institute for Legislative Action. “They tried to enact similar regulations back in 2009 and lost. It’s a shame to see such a waste of public resources on issues the courts have already ruled to be unconstitutional.” “We’ve been down this path before with Seattle when we sued them and won, knocking out their attempt to ban guns in city park facilities,” said SAF founder and Executive Vice President Alan Gottlieb. “The city does not seem to understand that no matter how they wrap this package, it’s still a gun control law and it violates Washington’s long-standing preemption statute.”

Did you think the lawsuit will be successful in stopping implementation of Seattle’s new guns-and-ammo tax? Let us hear your legal reasoning in the comment section.

The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt!'s blog, The Shooter's Log, is to provide information—not opinions—to our customers and the shooting community. We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. The information provided here does not represent the views of Cheaper Than Dirt!

Comments (73)

  1. I’ve been saying for years that it is time, we as voters enact legislation that prohibits lawmakers from proposing laws that are in violation of existing state and federal constitutions. Any proposed law that could possibly be in violation of the state and/or federal constitution should first be screened in/ screened out before being voted on. Those who are unaware of the constitutions they are sworn in to uphold should not be allowed to propose laws to the contrary. Any elected official who still chooses to put forth a law that contradicts or degrades the constitution should be automatically removed from office and face some sort of sanctions. These people work for us and need to be held accountable. Similarly, any elected official should be paid a base salary. There should be a voter review at the end of their term, reelected or not. Pay should then be based on performance and adherence to their election platforms. These two simple laws could keep politicians from messing with our constitutions and from squandering our taxpayer resources. Might even keep them working the last third or quarter of their term instead of campaigning constantly. I know if I spent the first two thirds of my workday not doing what I said I would do when I was hired, and then the last third trying to convince everyone how great I am, that by the end of the day, my employment would be terminated. Politicians who resign or are relieved of their duties for criminal actions should also lose their pensions. Honorable/ Dishonorable discharge conditions could apply, right? Does anyone out there agree?

  2. Here’s the problem with going after the city and their law….unless there is an impartial judge considering the suit, it will generally be continued and left unsettled. So, the party filing the suit will need to pursue it beyond the lower court. All this takes time.
    The main problem is that the council is made up of liberals put into office by a liberal population. IF….the city ultimately loses the case and must then absorb costs…it won’t be until years down the road and quite possibly the morons responsible for putting the law on the books will no longer be around. But…those liberals that elected this group, will elect their successors who will be just as inept. The tax payers will continue to throw money away, the lawyers will get richer and very little will be learned. History will repeat itself as a new batch of morons take office.

  3. I expect the suit will succeed just as al the earlier ones have and just as the various suits against San Francisco have succeeded. The question in my mind is why voters put up with rogue polls who go against the advice of attorneys paid to interpret the state and federal constitutions, and pass stupid (not ignorant, they’ve been informed. I mean stupid) legislation anyway, which costs both general taxpayers and private entities real money to put down.

    If there’s such a thing as a frivolous lawsuit, these examples prove there’s also frivolous legislation.

    1. It should be required that city councils keep on file a written response from the attorney providing advice, and that this response is entered into public record. Seeking legal advice concerning legality and or wisdom of any proposed taxes or restrictions of freedoms such as 2nd Amendment infringements, etc. should be required. Subsequently, if it is found that city officials have violated any rights, or placed into legal process anything contrary to the warnings or advice, then those responsible should be held PERSONALLY liable, and not the citizens/taxpayers. The simple truth is they are breaking the law!

  4. There should be no way for this suit to fail. But we live in a crazy country where the rule of law is being replaced by the rule of feelings. There is no way the lesbian mayor of ( I believe) Huston TX. should believe she should get away with demanding local pastors give her copies of their sermons to see if they were speaking against the activities of her ilk. Fortunately she didn’t get away with it. But it took a large outcry of conservatives to draw attention to this case. A judge in a case against AR15 ‘s and mags of more than ten rounds prohibited in a Chicago suburb, said there was no legal proof that people would be in danger if the ban was lifted. BUT the people feeling safer warranted it’s continuation. The truth is, the people of that area would be substantially safer if responsible people were armed. It’s a shame we can’t ask some of the liberals who lost their lives in no gun zones, if they had a chance to do it over. Would the still have the same anti gun feelings? As I said, we live in a crazy country that is getting more crazy.

  5. If a basic civil right like voting cannot be taxed with a “poll tax,” how can a tax on Second Amendment rights be sustained?

  6. This is insane. A gun violence tax? Let me get this crazy liberal logic through my head. People are paying a tax based upon crimes or hypothetical crimes committed by others?
    So a bank should have a ‘bank robbery fee’, or a car dealer has a ‘drunk driving manslaughter tax’?? No way people are getting this stupid. Wow.

  7. I think as a law abiding gun owner I should have the right to sue certain mentally unstable people. The gun has not ever killed anyone, certain people with guns have killed people.
    I’ve never heard anyone try to “BAN” vehicles when a drunk driver wrecks and kills a person(s). I’ve never heard of anyone wanting ban alcohol because of it, they just impose stiffer laws on people who drink and drive and never say anything about the vehicles.
    I already have to pay a “fee” to have a background check when I buy a firearm. I feel like I’m paying “my money” because of unstable idiots and people who don’t respect The law. Technically….I should receive a refund every time I pass a background check and when someone knowingly tries and doesn’t pass a background check, they should be fined excessively, and shipped out of the U.S. We need to take back the U.S. and quit being soft on criminals. By the way….hope Trump gets voted for president, he doesn’t need the money and knows these “piddly taxes”, and hot air blowing from “Anti’s” and politicians are some of the things that’s hurting America!

  8. I’m a Washington attorney. In fact, I got my start with the city attorney’s office in Seattle. The lawsuit will be primarily based on state preemption of firearms law. State preemption is extremely important because it prevents the lunatics in the cities from imposing their insane and unconstitutional gun prohibition on the rest of us. If your state doesn’t have it; get it!

  9. The question was, Will the lawsuit be successful? The answer should be yes it will be. What does “infringed” mean? I f this isn’t infringement I guess I for one don’t know what is. Guess I’ll have to look it up…

  10. There is one major fix for the gun violence in Seattle; though none dare speak of it. Men, if you make a child; raise that child. If you are man enough to lay with a woman, be man enough to stand by the child you make. Then teach your child the difference between right and wrong. Return value to human life. Stop aborting children. Until men stand up for the babies they make, those babies will grow up to be lost. I know there are a million of valid sounding excuses for abandoning kids. None of them stand scrutiny.

  11. What is it about the east and west coasts when it comes to nutty gun laws and even nuttier politicians?

    And, then there are the relatives of people who were killed by mentally unbalanced shooters. They demand that ‘something’ be done! But, when pressed, they are unable to cite a single, effective ‘thing’ to do! Only the passage of more inane, ineffective laws will lessen their grief.

    But, what about the law-abiding citizens who die, unarmed, while waiting for gun PURCHASES to be approved? Note that I did not say “PERMITS” (as in carry permits), I said “PURCHASES” as in bureaucratic red tape and waiting periods.

    Some unlawful shootings are simply unpreventable. Insane people do insane things whether they use firearms, vehicles, edged weapons or explosives.

    A $25 tax won’t prevent such. This ‘law’ (and calling it a ‘law’ is a stretch) is just another attempt to do ‘something’ – Even if it will be overturned and have no effect on the unlawful use of firearms.

    Should you have to be sterilized in order to run for office? I mean, most of them rank somewhere below eunuchs in effectiveness already!

  12. To the CTD moderator,

    Please fix your site’s “reply” function. I am tired of clicking on “Reply” in the emails then having to scroll through all the comments to find the one i want to reply to.

    Thank you.

    1. @ Mikial.

      I’ve been experiencing the same problem. Next time “Tap” that Little Red Pound Sign next to the Person’s Name. And the Computer automatically Aligns the Answer to the Questionnaire.

      Also Chech out the “Tricked-Out” M1 Garand by Sage International called the M1GALCS/PMRI Aluminum/Polymer Stock. The Brazilian Police Confiscated a number of them on a Police Raid. Their probably on YouTube by know. Sec…

  13. The greatest danger to a representative democracy is a uniformed electorate. Uninformed voters have put anti-Second Amendment activists in office. Shame on them. That is why I left California when I retired from the military and will not visit a number of states and cities where fools have elected idiots.
    Sadly, our schools and colleges are not training students to be responsible citizens. Does not bode well for the future of our nation.

    1. Amen brother. I can vouch that as a college student myself, people are focussed far too much on learning to be good taxpayers instead of active citizens who research and think for themselves. Almost all college activism is based on feelings instead of reasoning.

      I did have the benefit of a polisci teacher who encouraged our class to pay more attention to local elections and ballots, where the most difference can be made. He also wasnt blindly liberal and could talk about other ideas without starting a witch hunt. Sadly he is in the minority.

  14. 33,000 killed in auto accidents in 2013 and 32,000 killed in 2014. We should think about outlawing cars! Politicians then would not be able to get to their offices and make such ridiculous decisions

    The FBI reports 1500 knife murders in 2014. Five times the number of deaths from rifles. No more kitchen knives!

    5000 people died crossing the street I 2014.

    As always guns are the easy target for people who do not appreciate the shooting sports.

  15. The unfortunate truth is that these anti-gunners have probably never been in a situation when a gun makes the difference….for the good. One might ague that anti-gunners who are in such situations wind up dead and that is a thinning of the herd. Unfortunately, liberals seem to be multiplying too fast. God help America

  16. Thus how liberty dies!!!! Passed off as freedom of a safe society!!! Safe from what?? Guns, bullets, swords, knives, ball bats, drug overdoses, drunk drivers, on and on and it doesn’t stop everybody knows.

    It appears to me that the only guns a so called civilized society wants to be free from and safe from are WE THE PEOPLES. The people who pass these laws have the police, the Army, and some can afford private security. I cannot. Then who will protect us from their guns when ours are gone and the only guns left are those of outlaws and the government??

    They definately don’t want to give theirs up. But they surely want to rid me of mine, for the purpose of tightening the totalitarian control?

    How is their freedom, rights, and liberties any more important than ours?? I’m not trying to force my beliefs or rights on them, but they don’t hesitate to force theirs on us. When this occurs freedom ends. This country supposed to be about freedom? But its obvious in Seattle it’s about stealing money?? Not a nickle of the tax would find its way to a crime victim ?? This proves the pen is mightier than the sword and if the pen is mightier than the sword then why isn’t anyone moving to outlaw ink?? Oh yeah that’s right, …. can’t print money without ink….. I get it. Pen and paper creates more tyranny than it relieves. People can’t fight tyrrany with money because they don’t have it, but they can fight it with weapons. That gave birth to the SECOND AMMENDMENT they know this, and that’s why they want to outlaw and confiscate our anti tynarry insurance?????? Think??

  17. It is unfortunate that the left seems to feel it is there duty to save us from our own guns by further relieving us of our own hard earned money. The theory being under the labeling of a, “crime bill”, this illegal tax is some how going to protect law abiding citizens from evil. I am a former California resident now living in Texas. My gun collection includes SPAS 12, Galil, Polytech Legend, Norinco AK’s etc all purchased in the 1980’s from the now defunct Costa Mesa,CA gun shop. It would now be difficult to use those guns at a range in California much less buy anything like them. I never thought I’d see the day where regulations,stupid laws and excessive taxation would dictate where I live. My point is, the liberals have gained a lot of ground and are on a relentless journey to destroy the 2nd amendment. We have to fight back with our votes and supporting pro gun groups or the freedoms we love will surely disappear.

  18. I fear we will see more of this form of taxation and further erosion of our 2d. Amendment rights until it disappears. Why will that happen? For 40 years our liberal educators have been pounding away at our youth that guns are bad and only bad people own guns. Many youths will accept that line of B.S. and will vote with that in mind. And in a few years there will be enough of them to remove the 2d. amendment from our Constitution. It need not happen, if all and I mean ALL, who support the 2d. amendment rights vote for those who believe the 2d amendment is in the Constitution for a darned good reason. Vote..will ya?

  19. those a-hole left wing activists ought to take a trip to any country that has adopted at one time or another socialst/communist political practice and see how those people live w/o liberties or any way of protecting themselves.Liberals follow the doctrine of do as i say rather than do as I do .Taxing people and depriving people of their rights seems to be the Lefts mantra

  20. Don. Tacoma, Wa.
    It’s very anoying that Seattle ammo & gun tax is an issue. It’s a waste of time, money and resources. Resources I that could be put to much better things. It is only going to hurt the retailers and law abiding citizens who purchase their firearms & ammo legally. Not the ones who are out living life as though they are above the law. Or those who simply take what they want with their illegaley obtained weapons.

  21. and thats why we live in Florida, so far a free state. free of socialist politicians. it may not be the best but its far ahead of others.

    1. I reside in FL too. I was born in NJ. Thankfully my parents moved me when I was young. I still have lots of family on my side and my wife’s side who still reside there. I’m thankful to live in a state where I still have the right to protect myself, and more importantly my family, if God forbid, I’ve got to protect us. I’m back and forth between states many times during the year. I cringe knowing I have no way to protect us. Dial 911? Good luck with that! Voting the right people into office is paramount! Vote! The 2nd Amendment is in our Constitution for good reason! Support the NRA!

  22. The Obama administration is hounding the 2d Amendment to death. If they can’t destroy it outright… just pick away at it. Stop the military from selling expended brass so it can be recycled for commercial use. Be sure to outlaw Russian made AK’s and Saiga products as part of unrelated sanctions. Make sure that folks who consider themselves needing help managing their affairs (as in Social Security payments) are precluded from approval in background checks. Seek help from other jurisdictions like the UN.

    San Fran has its tax burden in the same spirit.

    I’m watching carefully from here in CA because all these lib efforts tell me what our future holds here. Am I
    conspiracy theorist” about liberal efforts to take our guns (or ammo) away? You bet your tukus I am!!!

    1. @ Bob

      I feel sorry for any sensible person living in California. You’re way outnumbered by ding-dong liberals and the majority of elected officials re moon-bats. I feel your pain.

  23. The ,City of Seattle will lose and lose big. Unfortunately arrogant gun phobics continue to enact these illegal laws and waste taxpayer funds all because the mistakenly think they know better than we do. The City will lose on Summary Judgment and the plaintiffs should seek costs and attorney’s fees against the City.

  24. If you could tax “stupid”, Seattle’s city leaders would have to pay up big time!
    The lawsuit should (and probably will) be successful.

  25. And I thought the NJ was the nanny capital of America?

    Kind of really makes you wonder why we keep electing twits to government positions. The L.A. ruling of limiting 9 rounds or less in the magazine akin to trying to make the roads safer from drunk drivers by making it more difficult for sober people to buy cars!!!!!!

  26. I live in Western WA and am following the news. The state will repeal it as soon as it lands on their desk. Purely a political stunt.

    Where was the NRA and 2A Foundation when I-594 got passed?? Oh that’s right they sent bumper stickers…

  27. The law is pathetically stupid. So tax the sale of cars, knives, chainsaws, batons etc. because someone might use them as a weapon.

    1. @Secundius

      I wouldn’t be surprised if Maryland decided to do this next. They tax everything. There was a joke that when O’Malley was governor he was planning to tax the rain. In order to keep their welfare state afloat, they virtually destroy the Middle Class so that all they have is wealthy Liberals and welfare recipients. As soon as you cross the state line from Virginia to Maryland, gas is over a dollar a gallon more expensive.

    2. @ Mikial.

      Probably already IS HERE, and we just don’t know-it. Because it’s called something else or is SO INGRAINED in the SOCIAL FABRIC that we TAKE IF FOR GRANTED, that WE’VE become BLIND too it’s PRESENCE…

    3. There wasn’t a joke that he was going to tax the rain….he DID tax the rain! It was known as the “rain tax” and fortunately Governor Republican governor Hogan repealed it a few months ago after he won the election and took office!

    4. @Lonnie

      The really scary part is that O’Malley was going to run for president. Can you even begin to imagine what that would have been like to have him in the WH?

      I lived in Maryland for one year when I first moved out to the DC area, then I moved to Virginia and have never regretted it.

    5. Seattle is one of the most liberal cities in the US. Unfortunately their ballot box runs the state. Eastern Washington is very much like Eastern Colorado (Denver runs the show there). There have been voices for the formation of a new state for years. I’m from Eastern WA, I would like to see Seattle having to pay for a whole lot of court costs and attorney fees.

    6. We already have the highest gas tax in the nation and they want to tax us on the number of miles driven. Our $30 license tabs have been boosted by a number of fees that my new tabs are going to cost $68 for my 1994 jeep.

    7. @Rod

      I spent a year at the Bremerton shipyard with lots of trips to the Olympic Peninsula, and some time at Ft. Lewis as well as several trips to Washington for vacations. I bought my first handgun there when I was in the military a long time ago . . a Ruger Stainless Security Six. Probably couldn’t do that anymore.

      It’s such a beautiful state. We had Metsker Maps of the logging roads and used to run them in our old pick-ups. It’s a shame that the Libs are squeezing the life out of it, just like Colorado. For a long time I wanted to move out there to get away from the East Coast, but no more. Virginia is a great gun friendly state, but too crowded. I am trying to get back to Wyoming or Idaho if i can ever find the right job to make it possible.

    8. Haha I pay $98 for a motorcycle in my crazy state. Cars are $200 plus. And the roads are terrible so the money is not going where it should. $68? Enjoy it, while it lasts.

  28. Many posting on this topic are failing to distinguish that the Second Amendment prohibits infringement of a Constitutional Right to keep and bear arms. There are no corresponding rights to use or own cars, telephones, the internet, or the media in general (although the First Amendment specifically prohibits infringement of speech, the press, assembly and the right to petition the government).

    The basis of the suit against Seattle is that State law preempts local laws related to firearms and thereby would prohibit a separate tax on firearms, regardless of whether or not it infringes on the Second Amendment. Firearms are already subject to the normal sales taxes and special taxes in some cases that support hunting and conservation for example.

    “The power to tax is the power to destroy,” wrote John Marshall, memorably, for a unanimous Court in McCulloch v. Maryland, 193 years ago. But it did not make taxation illegal, obviously.

    1. JIM
      Actually there is a corresponding right to own a vehicle and to drive vehicle it’s the freedom to pursue happiness it’s an inalienable right given to every person upon birth by god regardless of you live in United States. The legal documents such as the Constitution and the Bill of Rights these documents for created so that ignorant liberals and people who may not be familiar with your religious background will instantaneously know your rights whether not they choose to exercise their own. Just remember the Constitution doesn’t give us these rights we are born with these rights there in alienable they’er inherited from our father the Lord. the constitution’s purpose is to inform other people of what your rights are it’s not so that you can say the constitution says these are my rights God says these are your rights in the Constitution is a written document so that others will know what your rights are. I hope you find this useful.

  29. Let’s eliminate religion by taxing it. Let’s eliminate achievers having more than bums by taxing excess anything. Let’s eliminate guns by taxing them. Let’s eliminate luxury cars the middle cl;ass can’t afford by taxing them. Let’s eliminate free access to telephones, the internet, and media by taxing them. Let’s tax anything YOU don’t like by taxing it out of existence. SIEG HEIL!!

    1. No,
      you did not describe the liberal agenda — you described the radical Republican conservative attitude of hate and hostility towards anything
      that is contrary to your mind set.

  30. Glad to see people fighting these small minded anti gun liberals.
    You can bet other states are just watching and waiting to jump on the bandwagon.Seattle gets away with this others will follow.
    and price many out of their second amendment rights under the guise of taxes .
    Canada doesn’t even have a second amendment and is more gun friendly than California and some others, protest before it’s to late.

  31. So Seattle wants to think they are changing anything besides putting people out of work doing a legitimate business and paying taxes to them as is. There are at least three other shops east in Bellevue, WA. Two more north and bunch just south. Ferry ride west and I lose I lost count of number of shops.

  32. “shall not be infringed”… Isn’t making it more expensive artificially through unwarranted taxes, by definition, “infringement”? I sure think so.

  33. The key here is a State preemption law on firearms legislation. Otherwise, it would presumably be permissible for a city to levy a tax on whatever it wanted to.

    The city could argue that they are not infringing on the second amendment, since if you want to buy guns or ammunition, you are still free to do so. It’s just more expensive.

  34. Good somebody has to take a stand and stand up to this stupid idea/Tax otherwise they will try this on a lot of other things that real american’s want, need and love. Keep in mind no matter how the law suit turns out, you still need to vote and have these morons voted out of office. Americans do not need city leaders who think with their little heads. Vote no on all of Settle city leaders, put Gun owners in their place.So this never happens again.

  35. Hey Willard-after the spill at Silverton ,Co. the EPA has no validity as an Environmental watchdog. They are a punishing political arm of the democrat party.Make your own ammo as I do and nobody can fark with you.

  36. Why are we talking about Washington State Law ?

    The U. S. Constitution TRUMPS state and local law,

    Sue them for millions for taking away Constitution Rights

    and watch the COWARDS run.

    1. @ abelhorn

      How a State Generates Tax Revenue is State Politics, NOT Federal. And that’s what this case is all about TAXES. Nobody in the State Legislative is Disputing Your Right To Bear Arms, the State is just TAXING those Rights.

    2. @ condita

      As the US Supreme Court has said, repeatedly, “The power to tax is the power to destroy.”

      Basing a tax scheme on anti-freedom personal feelings does not work, as a matter of well-settled law.

      And, in fact, STATE LAW in Washington and many other states already says that local government simply cannot pull such shenanigans, precisely for the reason that cities have a sordid history of willfully disregarding the law.

    3. @ PeteDub

      The quote was made by Chief Justice Marshall in 1819, and it referred to the BANKS, not too the General Citizenry Population of the Country.

    4. @ abelhorn.

      I Don’s recall the Declaration of Independence of 1776 or the Constitutional Amendments of 1791, EVER stating that the United States of America. Was going to be a TAX FREE Nation

      Cali B&M.

    5. You are welcome to correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think they had tax’s back in 1776
      I know income never existed for sure.
      There’s tax’s that are needed and then there’s taxed to death.
      But this is about the Seattle firearms and ammo tax Lawsuit Do you think it will stop it or not ? I sure hope so

    6. @ sinbad

      In 1776, Colonial America,had the Stamp Tax, the Townshend Revenue Tax, the Sugar Tax, the Tea Tax, the Whisky Tax, the Rum Tax, the Capitation/Head Tax, the Poll Tax, the Income For Federal Government/Hamilton Tax, the Excise Tax, etc, etc, etc. More taxes then we have TODAY, in 2015.

    7. Stamp, Townshend, Sugar, Tea, liquor, etc all existed BEFORE we bacame a nation and was one of the reason we fought for our independence! Federal Income tax wasn’t levied until 1861! Most of our taxes we pay today have been around for less than half of our country’s existence! One of the OLDEST tax we have is the Estate Tax, which was implemented in 1797 and Federal tobacco taxes, which were first enacted in 1794. 1791, Alexander Hamilton’s proposed excise tax on alcohol was enough to prompt the Whiskey Rebellion in Pennsylvania.

      Taxes was one of the main reasons we fought for our independence for! The early citizens enjoyed pretty much no taxes until the government started taxing alcohol and cigarettes to pay back it’s debt from the war! And then we became complacent and allowed more and more taxes!

      So before you make statements, make sure they are true! Especially your last and most ludicrous statement of they had “more taxes then we have TODAY, in 2015″…….that just made me laugh….

    8. I believe Abelhorn is not talking about a “tax free nation”. He is NOT talking about income tax, sales tax, or excise taxes. He is specifically talking about taxing A RIGHT. Voting, for example, is a RIGHT. When certain states in the south decided to levy a POLL TAX, they were taxing the RIGHT TO VOTE. Such taxes were declared unconstitutional and eliminated. Taxing your RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS seems quite similarly unconstitutional.

    9. @ Bob,

      You have the RIGHT to live in a House, but there’s STILL Personal Property Taxes on that House. You have the RIGHT to Live in ANY State you want, but in Florida there’s STILL A One Time Resident Tax of $500.00 to Live in the State.

    10. A RIGHT to live in a house???? Uh.. where is that codified???? The existence of the many taxes you’ve listed here does not justify illegally taxing a codified right. The only proximate example provided in this forum was Bob’s example of the Poll Tax. You are FREE to engage in home ownership, not given a RIGHT to home ownership. You may want to consult a dictionary to understand the nuances that separate freedoms from rights.

  37. Article I: Declaration of Rights, Amendment 8, Section 24: The Right to Bear Arms was written into the Washington State Constitution in 1912. Which predate’s the 33-year State Preemption Law by 70-years.


    Cali B&M.

  38. I hope they’re successful. I also hope they come to California when California tries to do the same thing as many Democrats here in the state have been looking at this excitedly.
    I also wish somebody would Challenge California’s ban lead-based ammunition for hunting in the state of California. According to California the use of lead-based ammunition is detrimental to the environment and wildlife yet there are no studies that show this to be true. So why won’t somebody challenge this law? As an average citizen who is disabled and on an extremely tight budget this is inhibiting my ability to hunt by making me pay double to triple the price for ammunition.

    1. @ Willard Walker

      And how is this any Different from Lead in Gasoline, Paint, Glass, Water Pipes, etc.

      Cali B&M.

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