News

Government Destroying Surplus Ammo

We have all felt the pinch of the ammo crunch and there has not been any shortage of stories about the government gobbling up supply. Suddenly it seems the government has too much ammo! In fact, the Pentagon estimates it has about $1.2 billion worth of ammo that it has slated for destruction.

Unloading ammunition at a supply point. Operation Iraqi Freedom. Near Tall Afar, Iraq. 09-SEP-2004 U.S. DoD Photo
Unloading ammunition at a supply point. (Operation Iraqi Freedom. Near Tall Afar, Iraq. 09-SEP-2004, U.S. DoD Photo.)
The exact nature of the ammunition is unknown primarily because of the inefficiency of the Defense Department’s antiquated inventory system. Some of the ammunition may even be serviceable by our troops, but due to the system, the government simply is not sure. The best excuse the government officials could come up with regarding the amount of the ammunition that may be wasted was that they were not sure. However, to be clear when the report references ammunition it not only includes bullets, but also rockets and missiles.

Anyone who has served in the military has had a firsthand view of certain inefficiencies, but that does not mean this is part of a conspiracy to keep ammunition out of your hands or mine. While it is not nefarious, that does not mean it does not have the effect of increasing demand on current production, which drives up prices and limits supplies available to the civilian market.

While much of the report was simply “We don’t know” or “We need to do better in the future,” there were a few points that were clarified.

  • The services have inventory systems for ammunition that cannot share data directly despite working for decades to develop a single database. Only the Army uses the standard Pentagon format; “the Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps operate with formats that are obsolete.”
  • The services hold an annual conference to share information about surplus ammunition and swap bullets and other munitions as needed. Data about ammunition left over after the meeting disappears from the books, resulting in an unknown amount of good bullets headed to the scrap heap.
  • The Army, although required by regulation, had not reported annually on its missile stockpile until last month, shortly before the Government Accountability Office study was to be released.

While it does not affect supply for our ARs, the missile issue is a serious concern. The Army has an inventory of missiles—Stinger, Javelin and Hellfire—totaling over $14 billion in recent years. Hellfire missiles have been a weapon of choice for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and in the CIA-run Predator and Reaper drone missions to kill terrorists in places like Yemen.

The GAO found that the Army and its missile command “do not contribute to required annual report.” The reason, Army officials told investigators, is that it “rarely has items to offer for redistribution.” Without a more efficient system and increased cooperation between the services, there is a risk of the government procuring more ammunition and furthering squeezing the supplies available to the civilian market—that is the bad news. The worse news would be that critical ammunition and missiles supplies could be sitting in a bunker somewhere when our frontline warfighters are left shooting spit wads at the enemy.

You have a right to be upset over this news for many reasons, so make your voice heard to your representatives in Washington D.C. Check your ire for ammunition to feed your personal weapons though and give them a shout for our frontline troops…then hit ‘em with your personal complaints!

The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt!'s blog, The Shooter's Log, is to provide information—not opinions—to our customers and the shooting community. We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. The information provided here does not represent the views of Cheaper Than Dirt!

Comments (66)

  1. First, small arms ammunition *can* be mildly dangerous to a firearm. I’m thinking one of the more common damages that occur to small arms ammunition that was poorly stored, corrosion. Weakening the case and potentially causing mild to moderate chamber damage and damaging extractors.
    No, they wouldn’t explode, save if left in a fire and cartridge ruptures are an explosion of a very mild variety, which would spread the fire about a little bit. They’d either fail to fire or fail to extract.

    That said, most of the ammunition that the DoD has is *not* small arms ammunition. Remember, there are crew served weapons galore. There are rockets galore. There are explosives galore. C4 that is starting to turn brown and hence, is unstable. Mortar rounds that are ancient and the increments not reliable and the primary charge on the mortar round unreliable. Artillery that is unreliable. Missiles whose fuel is cracked and hence, unreliable to dangerous.
    In short, ammunition that *I* would never have a need for or want, for it is a destructive weapon that is unreliable. If I did acquire a destructive weapon, I’d want reliable ammunition!
    Same with the DoD.

    Now, if you want to find fault with the DoD, focus on their storage and documentation of the ammunition lot numbers, or more specifically, the lack thereof.
    For there is a major waste of our tax dollars!

  2. Doesn’t anybody read anymore, or do what the NRA tell them whats, what?

    The reason the government is destroying surplus ammunition is be cause someone or some country has been flooding the market with bad ammunition. Week powder, inferior cartridge casings, bad primers, shitty quality control, and the great risk potential for a round cook-off, not too mention possibly it exploding in your face. I’d rather see this junk ammo off the market, then someone accidentally getting badly injured or even possibly killed. For once the Government is doing something right. If you have any better ideas, share it with the rest of us!!!

    1. Our surplus small arms military ammunition will not blow up in your face, even if it is 50 years old. Just because imported military ammo is imported, doesn’t mean it’s dangerous. I think you must have very little knowledge in this area. Small arms gunpowder isn’t an explosive. In fact it won’t burn fast to explode it’s contained inside something similar to a cartridge chamber. This BS you see in movies is a myth. Even if a cartridge is put in a fire, it will rupture the brass case long before a bullet can gain any significant speed. Even when there’s been a fire in a gunshot stocked with ammunition & reloading supplies. Cans of powder are designed to rupture long before it can build up enough pressure to explode. However it is fuel for a fast burning fire. Gasoline, paint thinners & any petroleum based solvents are far more dangerous than modern smokeless powders. Black powder is also dangerous, but more reloader don’t use this & it certainly isn’t used in small arms military ammunition.
      Our surplus ammunition isn’t bad, contrary to what you or the government might think.

  3. @Marty, had you bothered to read the comments, you’d know that the large majority of US military ordinance isn’t small arms ammunition.
    You make the mistake of thinking that, but the reality is, the US has everything from Lance missile stock, Hawk missile stock and likely also Hercules missile stock still around. I’ve personally viewed all of the above, as well as ancient Vietnam war vintage LAW rocket systems and even more ancient things lurking in the various ASP’s around the world.
    I’ve personally collected 1952 and 1958 vintage TNT from a range where we tried to detonate it, collecting up to 2/3 of a charge from locations and typically, 1/2 charge remnants, to then detonate with Vietnam war vintage C4.
    Add in obsolete indirect fire ordinance, it gets above and beyond the call of absurd, as one then also has to consider antique TOW-2 kits that are so old, poorly stored due to deployment conditions that are far from optimal, it gets downright suicidal to try to use that crap.

    As in useless to anyone. Small arms is small potatoes for the US Armed Forces.
    What is worse is, I’ve not even gone into Naval ordinance and Air Force ordinance.

    Now, some “homework”, do look up the CMP. It does offer surplus ammunition, from the US and other military forces.
    Regrettably, it’s sparse on ammunition of late. But then, there’s been a paranoid purchase frenzy on all stocks from every source.
    Interestingly enough, I have more than enough rounds for every primary system I possess. Some due to being ancient, the rest, due to my requirements for National Match.
    The remainder being for hunting.

    Now, as a veteran and owner of a full dozen firearms of various calibers, I suggest you consider the real world before you spout off in an ill educated manner.

  4. If they can’t get our guns, the powers that be will do all they can to keep us away from shooting sports. The govenment could benefit by selling surplus ammo to law abiding citizens

  5. It would have to be damned old to shit can. Properly stored ammunition can easily last 40 years or more. I’ve personally shot 9mm ammo, I hand loaded myself a little over 40 years ago. It functions perfectly & is still accurate.

  6. This is the kind of thing that just drives me crazy!!! Rather than invest in coordinating ammunition accounting systems, the various branches of the military just continue to waste our tax dollars.

    The major hindrance to improvements in the process, IMHO, is the current government system that eliminates budget items from the military based on reported surpluses. In other words, if you had $500 million in extra bullets left over from last year then we’ll cut $500 million from your budget this year. The effect on the military is an attitude of ‘creative waste’. Either surplus supplies are destroyed, simply disappear from the books or, as the fiscal year end approaches, the military begins using up leftovers as fast as possible for ‘training purposes’.

  7. I agree that any Rifle or pistol ammo that is not armor piercing should be sold on the civilian market to help defray the cost of replacement. All other outdated munitions should be properly destroyed. From the few articles I have seen about this most of what they are calling small arms munitions are .50cal. armor piercing rounds. I am sure there are also 7.62mm, 5.56mm and 9mm rounds being destroyed, I wish our government would do a better job for the tax payers and sell this ammo to us. The racist comments and name calling really explains why the government doesn’t sell the outdated stores of ammo to the public, even on a forum where we all agree that the government should be selling this ammo to the citizens of this Great Nation we bicker about irrational stupidity.

    1. Robert: What “racist” (or bigoted) comments are you talking about? Harsh criticism, even if it’s wrong or even goofy , doesn’t constitute either. The administrations approach to all things related to firearms and AG Holder’s comments (lots) over a couple of decades are enough to make rational people darkly cynical in regards to virtually anything that might affect ordinary citizen’s gun rights in the broadest sense. It’s not that much of a stretch to think small arms ammunition might be deliberately destroyed, assuming it was among the things considered for destruction. Despite some posts here to the contrary, I don’t think it’s all that obvious that small arms ammunition wasn’t among them

      Cordially

  8. It’s pure stupidity to destroy stockpiled ammo that was mfrd. to tighter standards than what civilians can buy. If the military specified it for purchase, then it’s good stuff. This ammo will still be good 50 years from now. Rockets, on the other hand are subject to theft from storage facilities. And these are what are being sold to criminals and terrorist groups. Destroy those.

    And to you Ron Howard, your loved president IS a racist AND his hateful wife. They both hate this country to boot.

  9. What we understand as “ammo” rarely goes bad. Sealed primers, stored properly has an indefinate shelf life. However, when when military says “ammo”, it includes “javalines, sensor-fused weapons, and other smart-munitions”, that depend on electronics, batteries and cmos-proms/e-proms/ee-proms” that all have well defined shelf-lives. I’ve loaded and fired some “old-stuff” packed and dated back in the ’40’s. Still good. The new electronic based munitions are a totally different animal. Programmable memmories, like batteries, fade with time. Lead/acid core solder eats circuits. Any humidity, builds corrosion on metal surfaces, raising the resistance of the legs on IC’s. It’s a shame, but these things happen. The DoD is just starting to learn this stuff. An artillery shell, packed with electronics, can be fired from a camnnon, and guide it’self to a target, and still survive the fireing, is a small miracle in itself!

  10. Need to do like before, put out in civilian sources. Like the civilian marksmanship program. Or available for individuals to by as surplus ammo…….But HELL NO, not by the people who is running the country now.

  11. @TexasVet, you are absolutely right. I did step out of line by a great deal earlier.
    It is one thing to correct an error in facts or error of speech, it is another to be disrespectful. I’ve been in a really bad mood of late, due to family health issues and I’ve permitted it to enter a conversation.

    As for government waste, I agree that we should be outraged and we should be contacting our Congressional representatives to insist that appropriate oversight is performed to ensure less waste.
    Defense is a wasteful process in and of itself, items do have their safe use shelf life expire, but there is no excuse for not properly inventorying those items to ensure new items are not disposed of.
    Worse, there are areas of the DoD that fill entire warehouses with brand new state of the art networking equipment, only to DRMO sale it at the end of the fiscal year, then replace it. All to justify the budget.
    I personally witnessed that with both ARCENT and SOCCENT.

  12. This is wasteful to say the least. Since the military can throw taxpayers money away with impunity, perhaps if there budget were cut by the same amount they are throwing away it might open their eyes and require better accountability. Perhaps the military could supplement their budget by selling the surplus to the civilian market. Or better yet have no surplus or very little surplus.

  13. Laughable, Ronald.
    Both your inability to spell simple English words like destruction and your abysmal ignorance of our Constitution and the boundaries of power laid out in it on the Presidency and on the Congress.
    This is no empire, the POTUS has significant limitations on his power. He an issue forth executive orders, which are limited in scope of authority and Congress can nullify them if it disagrees with them.
    Congress writes laws, the POTUS can veto them or approve them and a veto can be overridden by a supermajority of the Congress.

    Stop reading your preferred reading sites and try reading the Constitution. It’s not all that long and it is in plain English.

    I’d suggest a US history book for a few other folks that have commented here.
    Feel free to suggest a remedial mathematics book for me, I’ll admit that I am lacking in that area, due to a disuse of those skills.

    As for senior moments, we all get them as we go along. Besides, let’s face it, at one point in our history, government was a case of a Roosevelt here, a Roosevelt thee, everywhere a Roosevelt. 😉
    Though, not a one could hold a candle to either Roosevelt that held the Presidency.

    1. @Wzrd1 Perhaps @Ronald would have been better served had he run a Spell Check on his comment before posting them. But honestly I think that your own comments could have benefited from a Grammar Check. You seem to be a fairly intelligent individual who is capable of calling out others for the error or their ways so I will not presume to give you instruction in proper Grammar and I will let you figure out what I am referring too. And while you’re at it you’re more than welcome to critique my comments as well. In the words of our moderator “Your discussions, feedback and comments are welcome here as long as they are relevant and insightful. Please be respectful of others.” and in that too I think you fell short. Having said that I think that everyone who reads the article should be outraged at another example of government waste and write to their congressional representatives to express their displeasure.

    2. I didn’t care about the spelling or grammatical errors from either Ronald or Wzrd1.
      My complaint is the NEITHER of them had anything to say that was “relevant or insightful”.
      I get enough political BS elsewhere. Could we just stick to the topic here please?

    3. Wzrd1,

      “He an issue forth executive orders…”

      “…, a Roosevelt thee,…”

      OK, so Ronald misspelled “destruction”. You misspelled “can”! How hard is it to spell “can”? Then you misspelled “there”. I generally quit worrying about the online misspellings of others a long time ago, but I still pause to comment on hypocrisy.

      With all due respect to TexasVet and his comment, I have my doubts as to your ability to find your errors.

      On your comments about the government, where does it say that a President can just “change” a law he disagrees with? Why is a law that has been called “the law of the land”, which was passed by congress and signed into law by the president, is apparently only the law of the land when the President likes it and can be simply “changed” when he doesn’t?

  14. Those trying to play the “Race Card” are often themselves Racist. The distruction of America at the hands of Obama has little, or nothing to do with “the color of his father’s skin”, but eveerything to do with his actions.

  15. Ronald, you’re off by a lot as well. Theodore Roosevelt was POTUS from 1901 to 1909.
    Franklin Delano Roosevelt was POTUS at the start of WWII, from 1933 to 1945, when he died of a stroke while in Office and Truman, as VP then assumed the office.

    1. Thanks for the correction. I knew who FDR was, I was born a couple of years prior to his election. Just a slight Senior Moment.

  16. Ah, so the POTUS, the Commander in Chief of the US Armed Forces is prohibited from ever utilizing those armed forces in your view.
    Additionally, the vote never happened, despite my clear recollection of voting in the last Presidential election (I was deployed for the previous election) *and* a Republican state governor and Republican secretary of health conspired to put a Democrat into the Oval Office.

    First off, every POTUS has been authorized to send the armed forces into conflict, whether Congress declares war or not. Congress can overrule the POTUS if it disagrees by defunding the action. That latter part is due to the War Powers Act. Previously, it still could defund an action, but rarely did so. Or was the second Barbary war some mythical violation of the Constitution, as Congress never declared war.
    Finally, you fail yet again with your Truman example, as *no* POTUS can declare war, never could and it would require a Constitutional amendment to authorize one to do so. A President can *ask* Congress to declare war, but Congress must declare war.

    In closing, your second to last sentence rather well describes you to me, you’re dissatisfied as to what color the current President’s father was. I really have no clue what you’re going on about with George Soros, as he is too young to have been a Nazi, unless you’re saying he was wandering about with the SS in Hungary while he was in diapers! That in and of itself would be impressive, but a Jew doing so would be a major miracle.
    Here in the real world, the man has been a mixed bag, with worthy works of philanthropy and unworthy business practices (and I’m being mild on that one).
    I just find it fascinating that you find an 83 year old man so threatening!
    I also find it fascinating that you think that NYC is within the borders of China and that Israel would want to murder a non-observant Jew.

    1. No Wzrd, you stretched to make sure you got race in as grounds for dismissing criticism of President Obama. Kenyan, doesn’t necessarily mean a particular race nor does being described as Arab or Muslim. Much of the electorate has profound disagreements with this administration that have nothing to do with race or ethnicity. Using race as a foil to avoid substantive debate is effective, at least so far.

      George Soros and his family I believe were Nazi collaborators. Soros was about twelve years old. The details aren’t that hard to find in the unlikely event that you are interested but he and his family aided the Nazis in identifying whom, what and where. A reasonable explanation would certainly have been the threat of death as an alternative at the hands of the Germans. In a 1980’s interview with Ted Koppel Soros was totally unrepentant and unapologetic for this which, to me at least, seems remarkable and speaks volumes.

      Soro’s currency manipulation has been the cause real hardship for lots of people. Although it may have been technically legal, possibly, it was certainly unethical and as he admitted he knew beforehand, it set several countries back a full generation. I believe it was Malaysia that characterized him as a “pirate” Appropriate enough. In the same interview Soros described himself to Koppel as “amoral.”

      Given the hardship he’s caused ordinary people in his pursuits it’s rather surprising that the US political left seems to hold him in such high regard. Contributions to politicians and causes that rival both of the pesky Koch brothers might be an explanation. A decades long observation will show that regardless of what he says George Soros is an advocate for only George Soros.

      Cordially

  17. Wzrd1 I can answer part of that since I too am an oath keeper, every POTUS from Johnson on have started wars on a whim, Truman could not declare war and allowed Japan to bomb Pearl Harbor to start but from big ears to W they circumvented Congress! By the way we still need to vote for POTUS #43 since we have not done so. Obama the Kenyan Arab Muslim invader put into power by a pissed off Nazi loser/billionaire George Soros hell bent on destroying America. He lives in China so Israel can’t kill that bastard.

    1. Kerry Good, you are a little off about who was President at the start of WWII, it was Theadore Roosevelt, not Harry Truman.

    2. Ronald Howard… You are wrong about the president… You were in the right family Roosevelt But the correct president was Franklin Delano Roosevelt He was the longest serving president in our time.(4 terms)
      He led us through WWII and died right at the end of the war and President Truman brought us into the Atomic age.

    3. I truly hope that you weren’t serious about TR having been president when WW II started!
      TR had been DEAD for 20 years when WW II started!

    4. Kerry, not only do you seem to be utterly ignorant of history (Truman and Pearl Harbor, really?), you also seem to be delusional–blinded by some perverse ideology or other. You might want to come out of your bubble and learn something related to reality.
      Your post is so ridiculous it sounds like satire–but I’m afraid it isn’t.

  18. Devilrider, I am curious. In what way has the US government ‘been “dissing” the U. S. Constitution for decades’?
    Do give specifics of disobedience to the Constitution, other than the many years that we’ve ignored the hell out of the equal protection clause of the fourteenth amendment for a century and change.

    1. Wzrd1 – You ask how the U. S. Government has been dissing the U. S. Constitution for decades? Let’s start with evidence related to the 1st, 2nd, and 4th Amendments. There are many others. There is a movement on, behind the scenes, to disarm the private citizens of the United States and we all know what will happen then – Worldwide evidence all around related to governmental massacres of citizens (Cambodia, Germany, Russia, many African nations), armed gangs attacking unarmed law-abiding citizens (Cambodia, Somalia, Sudan, Uganda, Nigeria, Chad, Niger), police shootings of private citizens (many incidents In Jamaica, United States, many African nations, many Southeast Asian nations). I could go on, Wizard, but this may give us some talking points.

    2. Wzrd: Perhaps as we watch a ranking IRS official invoke her fifth amendment rights you could explain how your “equal protection” rights under the fourteenth amendment have been violated. I get the feeling from your comment you want your personal grievance addressed so what is it. Be specific. What does someone else have that you don’t that has been a 14th amendment violation?

      Guys,it appears we need some serious remedial history lessons about who was where doing what at the beginning of WWII. I’m sure Wzrd is here to help with that and much more.

      Cordially

  19. Ok, now this is BULL! My hard-earned tax dollars went to BUY them this ammo in the first place, now Obama and his criminals not only remove the decent officers from the Pentagon and replace them with ones who’re sympathetic with HIS agenda, but now are also destroying said ammo?? Click your heels and salute, fellas, ’cause it is Sig Heil time…….

  20. This government has become too large and has been “dissing” the U. S. Constitution for decades. It is time for this outrage to stop. Conservative Constitutionalists need a leader to preserve the freedoms we have enjoyed in the past. I a Korean War Veteran and the oath I took when I entered the service still applies today. It does not just go away. I will die fighting to preserve the U. S. Constitution and the freedoms enjoyed in America.

  21. Tom, as anyone who as served in the military, waste is the norm and storage of ammunition of all varieties has long been an issue fraught with less than optimal practices.
    Leaving us with a mixture of brand new and ancient ammunition.

    But hey, it’s really the vast conspiracy of the government destroying brand new 30-30 and .22 rounds that it never bought, not things that are well known and well documented here in the real world.

  22. After reading the article, the only conclusion is this. I do not trust the government at all, it lies about everything, nothing is to be believed. Nothing said from the white house on down is truth, nothing.

    If ammunition is being destroyed, you can bet the farm on this being another lie and possibly the huge amount of munitions purchased by the likes of FEMA, and every other three and four letter unconstitutional government department out there will be involved here as well. Stuff bought is being destroyed to keep it off the market. Trust nothing they say.

    Tom Potter

  23. Everybody is jumping to the conclusion that this is relatively current issue rifle and pistol ammunition, 5.56 and 9mm, maybe some 7.62 NATO. What if it’s largely 40-year old 30-06 tracer, or 81 mm HE mortar rounds that have gone past their reliability dates? Or, maybe 90mm tank cannon rounds…we don’t need much of that any more. Hell, it could even include 16″ naval gun shells, or 8″ howitzer rounds (we’ve retired all the 8-inchers). Without an inventory, who knows?

  24. This same problem of the governments ability to create a computer system that combines information in on system was responsible for the terriost attacks on 911. As for the destruction of all that ammo blame the GAO. Better yet get rid of it , their way of doing business is if you don’t spend it this year you won’t get it next year

  25. 9mm,5.56. How much surplus small arms are they going to destroy? This is a crock. How much serviceable ordinance could we sell to allies? this is nothing but utter waste. It starts at the top.

  26. I’m not sure I agree with the authors statement that this is not a conspiracy. Is the goverment going to replace all of the rounds they are going to destroy? Why are the rounds being destroyed? Can they not be used for practice rounds? Are the brass, powder, lead and primers salvageable at all? Could they not be sold to the civilian market to offset the cost of replacement rounds? Obviously I’m referring to rifle and pistol rounds that hard to find in the civilian market right now. The goverment can’t find a way to take our guns, would draining the ammo supply not be nearly as effective? Does the goverment in Ukraine need any extra ammo right now? Does the fact that elections are getting near play a role in this decision? All of these questions may have legitimate answers, but they may have nefarious ones as well!

    1. Very slim chance any of this ammo would be of use to the Ukraine, without the weapons to fire it. I suppose it’s possible the U.S. government has a stockpile of 7.62×39 for use in clandestine operations, or to give to friendly governments with AK style weapons, but beyond that, everything’s different.

  27. I work on the demil side of the army, though I can’t speak of small arms munitions I know that when we demil the rockets and missiles that were mentioned in this article; the stinger, hellfire, and at4 that when we demil them they are garbage. Most of them are rusted, busted, or mis handled enough that they would be unreliable. Some look to be in great shape until it comes time for business, then they don’t go boom! As a soldier I really wouldn’t want to depend on that ammunition, and other than dirty underwear the enemy would not be stopped.

  28. When my little Reserve unit came back from Desert Storm, we had about 15,000 rds of .223 ammo. We couldn’t turn it in once the cases were opened, we couldn’t give it away, we couldn’t keep it, so we went to a range and shot it on full auto. It took 6 troops a week to shoot all that ammo. I was so tired of shooting and cleaning M-16’s. We shot it out of 24 different rifles. I wish I had that much ammo now.

    1. @Kent Tell me about it. I am an Army brat and an Army retiree so I have my share of stories about discarded ammo. I can remember when I was a kid my Dad was stationed at Ft. Riley, Kansas. Me and my buddies would walk over a few hills to the firing ranges. We would find live ordinance, ranging from unspent rifle shells, to hand grenades and my favorite, mortar rounds. The ordinance was live and had evidently been buried or discarded. Being curious kids we dug it up and brought some of it back home. I had quite a collection of military ordinance until my parents discovered it and EOD came to the house. Then during the mid-70’s while I was stationed at Ft. Chaffee, Arkansas I discovered 1,000’s of rounds of loose and belted ammo that had been dumped into a creek channel on the post. I assume it was dumped by the Army National Guard or Army Reserve units who train at Ft. Chaffee each year. I suspect that some of what we found that was buried was buried so the guilty party could come back later and dig it up. In other cases I suspect that they just dumped the ordinance so they wouldn’t have to mess with turning it in at the end of their training. Very sloppy accountability. My own father and his Army buddies would use M-80’s and hand grenades when they went fishing.

  29. Ammo has a reliable shelf life of ten years.It needs to be replaced BEFORE IT EXPIRES,

    Ammo such as misells may be slated for destruction, yet could be slated for covert areas of operation.

    If the ammo is stolen from a designated facility and shipped over seas we have plausable denyibility.

    1. I remember during Gulf War I, seeing TOW missiles fishtailing on the ground because they were expired missiles.
      We had all manner of failure to fire in the run-up, with all manner of weapons.
      After Gulf War I, we still had TNT demo blocks that were anywhere from 1952 to 1958 vintage. The result of using those for training was typically policing up the unexploded TNT from the ground, piling it up and detonating it with a few blocks of Vietnam vintage C4.

      What does it mean to not have an inventory control system with lots registered by date? A *lot* of waste and the potential of sending ineffective ammunition downrange.
      That waste is tax dollars being wasted, something any civilian should be outraged over.
      Well, at least when we fired in anger, we did manage to get unexpired ordinance and ammunition.

      But, if it’s all the same to you, I’ll avoid expired small arms ammunition. Extracting a bullet from the barrel sucks.

    2. I agree that only fresh ammo should be considered for our military. When faced with a Communist-imposed lead crisis like we currently have and a degenerating supply of materials for good brass, it would not hurt to dispose of the excess and/or outdated ammo to the civilian market in an attempt to recover some of the original expense. Even if the ammo was disassembled and sold for scrap via a civilian contractor, some of the costs could, and should, be recovered.

    3. Only 10 years huh? You might want to mention to all the people who have Mosin Nagants and are using WW II surplus 7.62X54R that their ammo shouldn’t go bang like it does when they pull the trigger. 😉

    4. Yeah, swing by Fort Benning and check out the ammo that the snipers in training are using. They are unbelting 50 cal rounds to fire in their Barretts, which bear ’47’ head-stamps. That stuff is half a century old and still works just fine for training. If you ask the instructors, the rate of FTF’s is lower that fresh, new manufacture, civilian ammo.

  30. There should be a requirement that mandates the government sell outright any and all military surplus ammo to the civiliam market. I’m sure the EPA will discover this will decrease the amount of lead needed to supply both markets, as well as other hazardous chemicals. The government could also recover some badly needed funds this way causing less drain on the taxpayer.

    1. There should be a law that mandates prison for corrupt public servants! That would mean no government if the law was in place at this time! This government only serves for power, greed of money and the destruction of our great nation, America!

    2. @GRA Although I agree in principle with what you are saying about selling military surplus ammo to the civilian market I think that because of the type of ammo that the military uses (i.e. armor piercing) that it would have to be restricted to Federal and State LEO’s. But at least maybe some of it would be put to good use instead of going to the dump.

    1. Devilrider, AmmoGarand.com seems to have decent stocks, including MilSurp. I’ve ordered from them and they’ve been solid.
      Hope this helps.

    2. @Devilrider have you tried using Ammoseek.com to find available ammo? Sometimes the ammo I am looking for is not available at the time, but eventually I have been able to find all the Home & Personal Defense as well as Training ammo that I needed in all calibers at better prices, even with the shipping cost, than what was available in local stores.

    3. If you have any friends who reload and can get powder and primers, it’s not hard to make a milspec load for a Garand.

  31. I would like to see a list of ammo manufacturers who are selling to the government. They are part of the problem and should be exposed.

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