Consumer Information

Election ‘Victory’ Means Work for Gun Owners Just Beginning

The Republicans have swept into Senate control in the mid-term elections and increased their margin in the House. At this writing, the GOP, which needed six seats to secure majority control of the Senate and oust Harry Reid from leadership, has gained seven. And in the House, per USA Today, “Republicans appeared headed to their biggest majority in decades.”

With these national results, gun owners can breathe a little easier, at least as far as the potential for draconian federal citizen-disarmament bills being passed and bad judges and administrators being confirmed. But, just because a judge is favored by the GOP is no reason to automatically assume he or she will be a friend on the bench, and who knows how the resolve of Republicans will crumble the next time a “gun-free zone” is exploited by a deranged killer and the political vultures who follow?

Meanwhile, at the state level, a different picture emerges. Even though Republicans made gains, key races where guns played an issue proved disappointing to activists trying mightily to punish anti-gun governors.

Mitch McConnell by Gage Skidmore—Own work. Licensed under Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 via Wikimedia Commons
Speaking at CPAC 2014 in Washington, D.C. in March, presumptive Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) said he would defend gun rights.

A case in point is Colorado, where incumbent Democrat John Hickenlooper narrowly beat back Republican challenger Bob Beauprez. Another was New York, where Andrew Cuomo’s trouncing of Rob Astarino wasn’t even close. Most significant may have been Connecticut, another close race, where Gov. Dannel Malloy prevailed over Tom Foley in a race in which gun owners found themselves divided until Independent candidate Joe Visconti finally dropped out the weekend before the election. Add to this problematic political climate the reality that there is no shortage of “moderate” Republicans who hold the right to keep and bear arms in disdain — and who evidently don’t get why principled gun owners return the sentiment.

The so-called “Constitution State” poses another significant danger, as many gun owners have refused to obey anti-gun-registration edicts they view as tyrannical, and now face the danger of zealous enforcement. It’s not just the stuff of “right-wing paranoia,” as no less a “progressive” establishment media source than The Hartford Courant demanded the state identify and go after “scofflaws,” and no less an authority than Gov. Malloy’s Criminal Policy Liaison, Michael Lawlor, has pledged to do just that. With gun-rights activists having essentially dared the state to put up or shut up, the odds just greatly increased that the more adamant among them will not go gentle into that good night.

Another danger manifested itself in Washington State, with the electorate there overwhelmingly allowing themselves to be manipulated by billionaires into giving up rights they as yet do not value. Most who voted for Initiative 594, billed as a “background check” bill, were unaware that even the National Institute of Justice has admitted, “Effectiveness depends on the ability to reduce straw purchasing, requiring gun registration…” Still, there’s no denying plenty of anti-gunners would like to see that and more imposed, and they’re gearing up to repeat what they see as a successful plutocrat-funded Astroturf template to roll out over the grassroots in other states.

With all of the above as the new political playing field gun owners find themselves on, several new dynamics come into play. First and foremost is the threat to fundamentally transform America — not by Obama, but by a Republican establishment represented by the likes of future potential presidential contenders Mitt Romney and Jeb Bush, both of whom are stumping for “amnesty” for the millions of illegal aliens residing in the United States.

They and other leading Republicans are endorsing a policy advocated by Obama’s Secretary of Homeland Security Jeh Johnson, who takes the radical position such criminal foreign nationals have “earned the right to be citizens.” While there’s no shortage of wishful thinking that this will broaden Republican appeal, credible analysis shows political sentiment among the “undocumented” overwhelmingly favors the party that includes “strengthening our background check system … reinstating the assault weapons ban and closing the gun show loophole” as an integral part of its official platform.

Next, of course, will come the incursions launched against the states by elite outside special interests. What such coalitions lack in terms of active supporters they more than make up for with seemingly limitless millions of dollars and a sympathetic media. Now that he’s seen his expectations pay off in Washington State, and now that he’s tasted blood, it’s not hard to imagine Michael Bloomberg going into an eye-rolling feeding frenzy.

So what does all this mean to us as gun owners?

If you thought it was time to relax, forget it. There has never been a time when committed involvement has been needed more. We have a president who is defiant, and vowing to stay the course. We have a media that will continue to act as Fourth Estate Fifth Columnists instead of as government watchdogs — except against Republicans who don’t advance “progressive” goals fast enough. We have a Republican establishment that needs to be constantly watched and have its feet held to the fire, and held accountable for betrayals of principle. We have a Democrat establishment that will beat on them for “compromise” until they give in — if we allow it.

We need to declare no new gun laws and mean it, and we need to do more than declare, we need to work. We need to replace the “Enforce existing gun laws” mantra (which is really no different than saying “Enforce existing Intolerable Acts”) with “Repeal existing gun laws.”

To do this effectively, we need to be involved and organized. It’s not enough to just leave an occasional opinion comment under a blog or in a forum post. We need to be force multipliers, and when we see good information, we distribute it, because we realize the mainstream media will never help propagate positive gun news. Yes, we need to join a national gun-rights group, but not stop there. We need to join our state group. We need to vote. We need to communicate with our representatives at all levels, and let them know gun rights are important to us.

We need to help when asked by our groups to do simple tasks, like sending emails, or more involved ones. We need to cast our prejudices aside and not squander the valuable resource social media places in the hands of activists — and realize if we don’t pick it up and use it, our enemies surely will. We need to introduce new people to shooting. We need to occasionally open our wallets to help get things done. We need to be willing to spend some time protecting and advancing liberty.

If the most important gun-rights leader in your life is not the one reading these words — that is, you — it’s time you reconsidered why that is. Chances are you’ll also realize that the greatest enemy we all face is not Obama, or the Democrats, or Bloomberg and his minions, or squishy Republicans, or idiot “real reporters.”

The greatest enemy we face is apathy.

Are you involved? How? Tell us in the comment section.


The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt!'s blog, The Shooter's Log, is to provide information—not opinions—to our customers and the shooting community. We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. The information provided here does not represent the views of Cheaper Than Dirt!

Comments (115)

  1. @ Secundius:Then I must not be as smart as you give me credit for. However, I am beginning to understand the game you are playing here.

    So because nowhere in any written Constitution, or by a tap on the shoulder by the Lord himself did he specially grant us the DIVINE right to breathe. And because of the absence of that specific passage or activity, you are asserting that right, by default, must have instead been relegated to mere mortal means as only a privilege that could have been granted by mortal men. Got ya.

    Well please allow me to assist you in understanding how wrong you are. The DIVINE right to self-preservation and life is clearly granted by God. I hope I can assume we both agree on this. The tools by which man is obligated to defend that DIVINE right exist; some of which take on the form of a gun. Therefor that DIVINE right inevitably or unavoidably covers such tools through natural extension and association of purpose.

    Knowing there would be future idiots like you that cannot make the connection; the Founding Fathers had the foresight to codify that DIVINE extension of NATURAL rights by specifically addressing guns in the Constitution. They were quite brilliant I might add.

    The end.

  2. @ Secundius: Wait, you actually think there is no mention that our rights come from God? It is in the first sentence of the Declaration of Independence:

    “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…”

    In the first sentence alone it clearly spells out that:

    1.) Our Rights are unalienable as they come from God or creator.
    2.) The only purpose for government is to ensure the protection of our God-given rights.
    3.) The government is only considered legitimate when it functions with our consent.
    4.) The Constitution is simply a written version of the will and consent of the people; but when the government strays from or no longer obeys the Constitution, they have lost our consent and are no longer legitimate.

    It is very clear that our Founding Fathers wanted it known to all, and by Declaration, that our “unalienable Rights” may only ever come from our creator, and not from any subsequently written document such as the Constitution.

    The Constitution was designed to enshrine our God-given rights that already exist by DEVINE proclamation from our creator. It was important to establish the Constitution because our Founding Fathers knew there would be evil people that would want to defile the People’s will.

    For you to espouse otherwise, as you already have, would mean you think you owe your entire right to even exist on this planet to words on a piece of paper and the whims of a government ruled by men, whether they be good or bad, and whom give you the right to exist as a “PRIVILEGE buy [sic] Constitutional Decree”. Your words, not mine.

    1. @ G-Man.

      NO. What I’m saying, their NO mentioning of “DIVINE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS”…

      I never said there was no mention of word God. Stop playing games G-Man, your smarter than that Don’t mince words.

    2. @ G-Man.

      Please show me in what you just wrote the phrase: “The DIVINE RIGHT to bear Arms”, If is’t in some hidden super secret “Masonic” code, that only You and McRuger know about. Please point it out.

    1. @CommonSense4America: You are 100% correct. I just posted the same statement (only longer) to Mc Ruger about Secundius’ stupidity. His life is a lie.

  3. @ Mc Ruger.

    Somehow you missed the part of the Separation of Church and State in the constitution. And as for as Luke, I don’t have a pair of Swords, but will a pair of really Sharp 36-inch Long Ring Bayonet’s do, instead?

    1. OMG you are such a PUTZ. You have already shown everyone what a complete moron you are. Every time you post you reaffirm your ignorance. Give it up lady, you’re embarrassing.

      I have to ask though, how is it that I forgot about the separation of Church and State seeing as we weren’t even talking about it? Please, try to think it through before you answer and have your caseworker read it before you post. If I have to read anymore of your nonsense again I will hurt myself from laughing.

    2. @ Mc Ruger: It’s okay, Secundius has no clue how easy it is for you as well as anyone to have “missed the part of the Separation of Church and State in the constitution[sic]” given there isn’t a single mention of it to be found anywhere.

      What’s funny is after Secundius reads this he will scrounge the Internet for information trying to prove me wrong, only to be rudely awakened by the fact that I am right. He will realize he went his entire life believing it was in there because he never took the time to actually study the Constitution as we have.

      Then he will become overcome with panic at the realization that you and I really do know what we are talking about and that with each passage he posts in this forum we are more easily able to publicly prove how often he just posts out his ass with nothing more than illiterate assumptions.

      Oh but be prepared for him to return with a classic liberal comeback about how this is just my opinion or spin.

    3. It’s not that I didn’t know. My question to the Buffoon was how he came up with the subject change. He tossed in Separation of Church and State out of the blue. He is a messed up little guy.

      I don’t want to look it up again but as I recall separation of church and state is a concept based on a letter from Jefferson to some Reverend. I believe that the reverend want to do something and Jefferson told him the government would stay out of his business because of the 1st amendment which specifically keeps the government out of religion. The Supreme Court based there clarification of that part of 1A on Jefferson’s letter and Separation of Church and State became the law.

      In my humble opinion the Supreme Court interpreted the 1st Amendment incorrectly. It takes very little research to see that they were wrong. The intent of 1A was to keep government from dictating how to worship, keep them from forming an official government church. It was never intended to keep statues out of government buildings or prevent government officials from praying or adding “one nation under God” to the Pledge of Allegiance.

    4. @ Mc Ruger.

      No. What you CLAIMED, that you have the DIVINE RIGHT to keep and bear Arms. I just challenged you to show me where in the 2nd Amendment it says that. Or, any where else in the Constitution, where it say’s that. Or, in the Delclaration of Independence, it say’s that…

    5. OMG
      Read my original posting. What it says is that I have a right to feed myself and protect myself, my property and my family just like any other animal on this planet. I have that right because I exist. It has nothing to do with the government. I have a right to a gun because that tool is available to me in order to feed and protect my family. Obviously you can’t comprehend that RIGHT.
      Here’s a more official way of saying it but I doubt you’ll comprehend this either.
      We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    6. @ Mc Ruger: You are absolutely correct with one exception; it is not the law and never has been. It was merely a phrase coined by the Supreme Court in one of their opinions, but in no way is a law.

      However, so many uneducated liberals actually believe it is in the Constitution and/or some Federal Statute and so the phrase inappropriately remains in perpetual existence due to their ignorance.

      For the record, I also wish to point out that a Supreme Court opinion is just that… their opinion, not law. Many people do not realize their decisions are not legally binding and as such, may be disregarded by the other two branches of government if they see fit.

      It is a mere courtesy and/or tradition that we comply for the sake of civility, but it is optional according to law.

  4. @ Secundius: How is it not painfully obvious that you admittedly get run off by the MAJORITY of members in another forum and then come here and not realize that this MAJORITY has the same exact distain for you as well?

    Yet somehow you still project your social ineptitudes towards everyone but yourself. This is because you and some others here suffer from a very real condition known as “Psychological Projection”.

    Your disorder stems from your own unpleasant urges by denying you exude socially repulsive behavior, while at the same exact time displacing and re-projecting the blame for your own tasteless actions onto others; when in reality their comments are actually quite socially acceptable norms compared to your dramatic, vulgar, and socially unacceptable and morally impaired speech that is what kicks off every argument here.

    Another way of looking at it is: You, Beau, THX-1138, and a few others here are overtly rude people and as such you espouse some fairly offensive and socially inept philosophies. Your liberal minded deficiencies allow you all to unwittingly assert such rudeness under the pretext that it is your right, and freedom of opinion in America to act the way you do. All the while, you all are completely oblivious to the fact that the MAJORITY of us socially normal people here do not find your rude and offensive behavior acceptable under any circumstances of normal society.

    So, when the socially normal people of these forums find you rude, offensive, and feckless rather than contributorily helpful, they attempt to tell you so. But rather than learn and grow from such admonitions, you all instead re-project the very thing we are complaining to you about and claim it is us that is doing it to you.

    Seriously Secundius, you’ve have already been booted from another forum for your same behavior and then also constantly find yourself getting blasted here by the MAJORITY for the same exact thing, and yet you still have not learned that it is your socially unacceptable behavior causing it.

    I think everyone here is shaking their head along with me because we know it is a lost cause for you, Beau, and THX-1138. It is a locked loop so-to-speak in that it is your liberal mental disorder that will never allow you to see what is normally socially acceptable and so we will never be able to get through to any of your lost souls.

    The bottom line is that deep inside all of you know what I am saying is true. There is no way you can act as you do in these forums and not have some of it spill out into your real lives. I have no doubt each of you are socially awkward which leads to similar problems in your real lives. Though none of you will ever admit it, you know I speak the truth.

    So while you all (Secundius, Beau, and THX-1138) are social misfits forced to hide behind a computer, we instead come here as a brotherhood, sharing ideas to take forth out into the real world, with real actions, that has real impact… such as the elections we just slaughtered out from under your liberal asses.

    Now that was me being intentionally rude and you each deserve a taste of your own medicine. I doubt any of you will comprehend a word I’ve said so I’ll just leave you with – tootles…

    1. See, you are so unaware of your condition that you have no clue your last comment inevitably proved my case.

      What you just did is a classic example of “Psychological Projection”. And now it is up there for all to see. Thank you for making this so easy for me. Tootles…

    2. @ Secundius: Once again, thank you for continuing to put on such a magnificent display solidifying the severity to which you suffer from this psychosomatic manifestation. While I am certain your condition has provided indisputable amusement for all the other observers, there is really no need to carry on at such ridiculous proportions. You had already proactively confirmed my diagnosis of your disorder after with your first response. Tootles…

  5. To all the conservatives on this log don’t forget our goal is to establish our constitutional rights not hindered by government. Don’t get bogged down in quibbles with the liberal writers here, make it short and sweet to them. Lord Acton’s quote on liberals should suffice for them, “A liberal is only a bundle of prejudices until he has mastered, has understood, experienced the philosophy of Conservatism.”

  6. @ THX-1138: I seriously doubt we are on any list given that we are usually defending the author of the articles, keeping the entitled topics on point, and expressing our conservative and prevailing views against gun-control; which last I checked was the genre of the “Shooter’s Log” to begin with.

    It’s you (THX-1138), Beau, Secundius, and a few others that are the regular and obvious antagonists on this site. Incredibly it is you all that can’t seem to figure out that you are the fish out of water any time you post in this relatively conservative forum.

    And don’t act like you don’t realize you all are the intentional antagonists here when Secundius just posted a braggartly statement to Beau about how he just got booted from another group for pissing off too many people. How repugnant of you to come to a site you know is conservative and act like you are not the source of the trouble.

    If Mc Ruger and I are guilty of anything, it is our steadfast dedication to pointing out the flaws and lack of facts in all of your liberal talking points you robots boringly repeat with each post.

    If you all go away, this forum returns to a normal keel… and that is a fact you won’t find in any of your liberal talking points.

    1. @ G-Man.

      The other people in that forum, were just like you and McRuger. Brainlees Idiots that couldn’t or didn’t what too see beyond their own importance and could and/or wouldn’t allow other people to have a say that wasn’t in narrow tunnel vision view of the world and the universe around them. You know the type “PIGHEADED”…

    2. Careful Secundius your stupidity is showing again. I thought we had this settled… You were supposed to have your caseworker read what you type before you post.
      Settle down and go take your pills…. It’s ok …. it’s ok.

  7. @ Beau.

    Glade to see your still alive, and kicking… Got Kick-Off the “Beer-Nut” group, must have Pissed-Off Too Many People…How’s young protege doing, 1 across two letters.

  8. @ G-Man.

    You call me a Pinko-Liberal, a Communist, and many other things. Sir, I’m a Republican, NOT a Tea Part Republican, but, an “Old School” Republican. Too you and other’s like you that makes me a RINO. Well, Sir my type of Republican has been around MUCH, MUCH, longer then Your Brand of Tea Party Republicanism. I guess the make You the all the Tea Partists, RINO’s… My type of Republicanism is I’m a LEVELLER!!! For those of you who don’t no what the word means, your going to have to do some historical research going back ~1365-years…

    1. @ Secundius: Well, feeling a bit insecure are we? Do you realize you just took the weight of everyone that dislikes you in this forum and dumped it all on me?

      I read others blast you like that all the time, but I personally have never referred to you as a “Pinko-Liberal”, or “a Communist”. Albeit you are a liberal, yet fail to realize it.

      You do not deserve any affiliation with the Republican Party no matter how badly you wish it to be, or how far back in history you think you belong. Just because you make such claims doesn’t make it so.

      Every fiber of your being screams Liberal Democrat. And I doubt there is a person in these forums that has ever read anything you’ve written that would disagree with me.

      Your attitude and philosophy is what defines you as a person, and as such, we’ve read enough of your ramblings to irrefutably classify you as a rather extreme liberal. So you’re just going to have to trust us that you really need to change party affiliations.

    2. @ G-Man.

      If you want to Vent your anger at me and make your Rhetorical Phiffy remarks. GO for it… I’m not going to loose any Sleep Over It…

    3. @ Secundius: As usual, your comments don’t match the dialogue. Engaging you is pointless. Tootles…

  9. THX-1138
    You could say that but of course you would be wrong.

    The Obamits have turned a good site into into another Craigslist. You have taken it from talking about something we had in common into talking about abortion, Sharia Law, how the gun rights organizations suck, and some moron going on about gun owners begging for a shoot out with the feds. You screwed up this site just like you screwed up the country. I’m OUT.

    1. @ Secundius: And as usual your limited aptitude prevents you from tracking the conversational flow properly.

      No, CommonSense4America was not referring to anything I said. He was dogging Beau’s illiterate reference on page 2 to the “90%” he thinks wants gun control.

      CommonSense4America was laughing at Beau because apparently he never got his “Liberal Talking Points Memo” updated. They (liberals) got caught a while back not having any data to back up their bogus 90% statistics claim. After getting caught, Obama, the libs and most mainstream media quickly dropped that line. Evidently Beau is still unknowingly towing it.

      And thus CommonSense4America’s comment in which he displayed his amusement at Beau’s ridiculous remark. Hope that clears things up for you.

      And by-the-way, since I have to do everything for you, would you also like for me to start writing your replies so that others can understand what you are trying to say. Just a kindred offer is all.

  10. I am involved as an NAGR Frontline Defender and an outspoken Concealed Carry Card holder who daily carries his Sig Sauer P250 40 S&W. I carried my Sig openly for the 5 weeks it took me to get my concealed carry permit because KY is an open carry state, and took advantage of every opportunity to educate children and parents whenever a child would say “Look that man has a gun”. I am also a member of the USCCA due to the education, training, and law insurance they offer.


    1. Jake D – Please stop on the Internet and go back to school so you can spell properly, and learn to communicate in writing. Someday you may pull yourself out of your downward spiral. I see a definite connection here.

  12. And we also need to stop bashing other gun rights organizations-one thing you are absolutely guilty of, Mr. Codrea!

  13. To those with insults towards Mitch McConnell, you don’t know what you’re talking about, and probably aren’t from Kentucky. His record is far better than the average politician. Our country will do better now that Harry Reid has to step down.
    Mitch has proven to voters he supports and defends the Constitution.

    And to the person that believes guns are the problem, get a clue dude. You’ve been brainwashed by the liberal media and liberal fools that (supposedly) run our government. Perhaps we should ban cars, baseball bats, clubs, fists, etc. from law-abiding citizens too……….since they kill more people than even guns do. Learn to put blame where it belongs; on the 1 percent of our citizens that are sick and deranged, or greedy to take advantage of the other 99 percent of us.
    Too bad the media won’t tell us about how guns are used thousands of times everyday to protect us.

    1. @ Mitch.

      But, NOW Harry Reed get to do too Mitch McConnell for next 2-years. The same thing that Mitch McConnell, has done too Harry Reed, for the last 6-years…

      “The shoe is on the other foot”.

    1. @ desert.

      You right, McConnell will follow the Money Trail, and too Hell with SPQCCA (Senatus Popilusque Conicinctis Civitatibus America).

      To Paraphrase: “Money Talks, Everything Else Walks”.

  14. Freedom isn’t free.

    This is a fact we all must face. For myself, I have committed to support the NRA and the Second Amendment Foundation as part of my annual firearms budgeting. To me, this is now a cost of owning a firearm — just like ammunition and training.

    I would suggest that you may want to do the same: Find organizations either locally or nationally that support our right to keep and bear arms and provide financial support to them to defeat those who would take our liberty.

    It is the best way for us to remain free.

  15. I don’t worry about these so called laws I keep my guns in a safe place and would never use them in anger or against anyone that didn’t have one pointed at me to begin with if more people would under stand the responsibility of owning or using a gun we would not have a problem and also I don’t think its anyone’s business what guns I own people need to mind their own business these people against guns might change their minds if someone saved their lives with the use of a gun

  16. I would hope that with a Republican controlled Senate and stronger position in the House Republicans would venture to take back ground and eliminate as many gun control measures as possible–of course Obama (ever notice how most people call him just Obama or just Mr. Obama and not Pres. Obama?) will never sign any such bills but it would at least put Dems/gun controllers on the defensive. And at least you could defund some anyway. I would say go back even to eliminating the Brady bill, any bans or even the prohibition against mail order firearms. That bill against mail order firearms was only established as a result of JFK’s assassination which was really just another false flag op that accomplished that ban and a few other things for the Mafia/Kazar (as false Jews) elements.
    Could we eliminate the Patriot Act, most provisions of NDAA and DHS which we were faked into thinking we needed by the 9/11 false flag op?
    Or do our reps even know these ‘events’ are really just false justifications to fool them into disarming us? As the article seems to indicate, at least some people in Conn. are beginning to realize that they have no more obligations to obey those laws than they do the demands of a pack of home invaders. I would be surprised if it really started in that New England area again just like it did the first time. Kinda wish I lived there.

    1. Norman: Right on. We have lost a lot of gun rights since 1960. I mailed ordered my first rifle in 1960, a WWII Mauser 98, for $10. After being sporterized and scoped I could outshoot rifles costing many times my investment. Still have it and it still shoots right on.
      We are being played with by an old commie tactic, two steps forward and one step back. Our liberal opposition is good and keeps a steady pressure on us, always searching for mush. Another commie approach, hit mush advance hit bone withdraw. All guns owners need to toughen up, and demand constitutional liberties from all the politicians they vote for. Constitutional rights are not to be taxed or charged fees for licenses. I consider the conceal carry lic. fee unconstituional.
      All citizens have the birthrights provided by the constitution, until removed, by convictlion of a crime, by a jury of peers, in a public trial. Until then the government should stay out of our affairs and stop using administrative law to remove our constitutional rights. Recommend reading Hamburger’s article in Imprimis, Sept. 2014, “The History and Danger of Administrative Law.” Hamburger exposes how bureaucrats use it to maintain and expand their power base.
      To close i like Lord Acton’s quote to sum it up, “Bureaucracy is undoubtedly the weapon and sign of a despotic government, inasmuch as it gives whatever government it serves, despotic power.”

  17. @ njones: I challenge you to cite a single law that isn’t already on the books that would actually prevent a criminal or insane person from doing what they are going to do anyway.

    Let’s see… rather than waste everyone’s time, let’s go ahead and jump straight to the ultimate statute that should pretty much resolve everything, everywhere, and at any time; that being… the statute against murder. That one single statute pretty much covers the bulk of our issues, and yet, it just doesn’t seem to help.

    And why? Because they are just words on a piece of paper that will never offer any real protection to that poor college freshman that gets raped and murdered because her campus won’t allow her to defend herself from criminals and insane assholes that could care less what’s written in a book somewhere at the state capital.

    So yeah, great idea… let’s add even more subordinate, meaningless, feel-good statutes that will also be ignored by the criminal and insane population while at the same time effectively restricting the rights of lawful gun owners who need them to protect themselves from the aforementioned.

    The only way to ever absolutely resolve this problem is to banish all guns in every capacity throughout every nook and cranny of the U.S. all at once and forever. Well, I think we all know that will never happen because the Second Amendment guarantees our right to have such weaponry should the need present itself for us to up rise against a tyrannical government.

    So, what’s the answer? Simple… abolish all anti-gun laws so that our Country actually lives up to the words “SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED” as guaranteed in the Constitution, and simply learn to deal with the reality that guns are here to stay.

    Educate people to stop freaking out over guns. No one freaks over a steak knife, an automobile, or a chainsaw, and yet they are deadly implements as well, all of which has been used to commit murder. When someone is run down by a vehicle, we don’t see coalitions of people screaming to ban the automobile and yet there isn’t a single mention protecting it’s right from infringement in the Constitution.

    So rather than chasing after antiquated and inadequate laws that pick on an inanimate object such as a gun, instead the focus should shift to the source of the problem which would be healing the criminal mind behind the gun. And as such, make laws that mandate better parenting, education, mental health detection and treatment.

    But that could never happen because it might involve re-implementing moral standards, God, and religion back into our society. And we all know this gutter of a country is too far gone for that to ever happen. So instead, we have no choice, as Obama puts it – to cling to our guns.

    1. G-Man: You say: “I challenge you to cite a single law that isn’t already on the books that would actually prevent a criminal or insane person from doing what they are going to do anyway.”

      Well, by that standard we should eliminate all laws, since it’s apparently useless to you to have any laws. After all, laws don’t ‘actually’ prevent any crime. Right? Why can’t a 10 year old go buy an AR-15? Why not my insane adult nephew who rages at insignificant exchanges with anyone? Been in and out of family court for years. Nobody wants him armed – nobody.

      I challenge you to tell us why there SHOULD be some or any laws? Then look back at your ‘no gun laws’ argument again. See any issues there? Yep.

      Next, the basic problem with your equivalence of guns to cars, steak knives and chainsaws is that those items were solely produced to do another task. Nobody builds cars or chainsaws for killing people. Nobody.

      On the other hand guns are, and always were, designed to kill. Be it used for hunting or for killing humans. Yes, there’s people like myself who love to shoot at the range and in friend-foe pop-up scenarios. We tell ourselves, “. . . it’s not about killing anyone.” But in reality, it is exactly ‘about’ killing in a training sense. Trying to mentally disconnect sport shooting and any link to killing is difficult. Silhouette shaped targets anyone? (I like the zombie ones)

      Who here hasn’t fantasized ONCE about blowing away a real criminal who’s just broken into your house in the middle of the night intent on murdering you and your family? Imagine this intruder is some ISIL terrorist, or some deranged madman. It suddenly gets pretty easy to count on your practice time at the range. It’s for this reason we’re proud to own defensive weapons. And I won’t give mine up. And NO ONE has ever asked me to.

      We need to have a reasonable, logical method to TRY and keep guns out of the hands of deranged, mentally ill people that everyone understands nationwide. We need to define a ‘keep-away’ process that’s not difficult to impose, but still allows an immediate appeal process, with a ‘balanced’ panel of impartial judges who understand the 2nd Amendment. If it’s transparent and balanced it could work and would be cheaper than what we pay for NOT having this process available.

      Embracing Smart-Gun technology will help also. Any yes, we need to remove the statutes like the one in NJ that requires all smart gun sales eventually. Just enable people to buy them IF they want them. It’s a free-market right? Hell, I’d buy a pistol that no one else can shoot.

      Regardless, njones is correct. Most of us know SOMEBODY who probably shouldn’t have a gun to keep themselves and others safer.

      G-Man, you are in denial. And don’t put your god on me. If you’re gonna bring god into this, who’s god do we use? Yours only? Sounds like a Iran to me. We have enough religious war in the World already, thanks.

      Regardless of politics, 90%+ of Americans agree in poll, after poll. We need common sense gun laws that reflect our actual needs for gun ownership and safety.

    2. BS. Last four words of the 2nd Amendment says it all,,,”shall not be infringed.” As far as ‘common sense guns laws’ are concerned, it has already been written on Tablets of stone that state “Thou shalt not kill”. Pretty simple. BTW,,,the 2nd amendment was to admonish the government to not mess with our natural rights.

    3. @ CommonSense4America.

      The last four words, haven’t been changed, SIR. The word substitution from, TO to FOR has been changed. And that Sir throws the Structure of the phrase in a whole new meaning.

    4. @ Secundius: With the most sincere of observations, I must point out that your comment on page 2 in response to CommonSense4America’s post – simply makes no sense whatsoever.

      Your inability to maintain any semblance of continuity is a major detraction from any point you thought you may have been attempting to make.

      It is often more amusing to poke fun at your blathering ignorance when you appear to be somewhat grasping the topics, but this time around your comment is so utterly dissociated it makes one wonder if paramedics should be dispatched to your aid. Stroke maybe?

      If not, either get off the sauce or back on your meds and then come back and explain to everyone how your comment had anything whatsoever in common to do with what CommonSense4America had posted.

      And for everyone else’s benefit, since these posts come in email form, I will paste CommonSense4America’s post and then Secundius’ really odd response. Maybe you fine forum folks can help out in making some sort of a connection in what Secundius was babbling about:

      CommonSense4America Wrote:

      “BS. Last four words of the 2nd Amendment says it all,,,”shall not be infringed.” As far as ‘common sense guns laws’ are concerned, it has already been written on Tablets of stone that state “Thou shalt not kill”. Pretty simple. BTW,,,the 2nd amendment was to admonish the government to not mess with our natural rights.”

      Secundius Replied:

      “@ CommonSense4America. The last four words, haven’t been changed, SIR. The word substitution from, TO to FOR has been changed. And that Sir throws the Structure of the phrase in a whole new meaning.”

      Should we call 911 for Secundius?

    5. @ G-Man.

      “The Natural Right To Bear Arms”? That implies DIVINE Right’s, GOD give Rights. Show me any Biblical Writings, or Constitutional Writings from any Country of World that say’s that. The Right To Bear Arms is a PRIVILEGE buy Constitutional Decree, NOT a Divine Decree…

    6. @ Secundius: You still have failed miserably at explaining the connection between your ramblings in response to CommonSense4America as I originally pointed out.

      Do you have any intentions at trying to mop that up before you sideline everything in infamous liberal fashion with an entirely new topic?

    7. @ Secundius: …and how would that be, that you feel I am “redirecting traffic” when it is you that refuses to address the ORIGINAL content. That is not a “redirect”, but rather it is an attempt to get you back on track.

      To me, my words actually need to mean something, yet yours do not. It’s like a rambling weird free-for-all with you.

      The bottom line is that you simply continue to refuse to explain how your response to CommonSense4America had anything to do with his post.

      Once you comply, thereafter I have no problems educating you on your newly introduced topic that will clearly show you both “Biblical Writings, [and] or Constitutional Writings” do in-fact establish the Second Amendment does flow directly from “DIVINE Right’s [sic]”.

    8. Secundius: I hate to get involved in the obvious love affair between you and G-Man but I want to try to explain this one more time. THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS IS A DIVINE RIGHT. Now before you get nuts let me explain.
      See people against gun ownership as well as many uneducated gun owners think 2A was written so people can hunt or so that people can protect their homes and families. These are natural rights given to us the same as any other animal on earth. Other Animals do the best they can with what they have to feed themselves and protect their families but you can bet if a deer could handle a gun to protect himself from a bear or a wolf or man he would very likely have a nice AR, maybe a 45-70 and a 40 cal in the dresser.
      I will assume you agree that these rights are granted to us just because we are living beings. As natural rights the government should really have nothing to do with it. However, being an intelligent person I will concede that the government can and needs to sell hunting licenses, license FFLs, tax sales etc. in order to provide revenue. I will even concede that the government has a right to keep guns out of the hands of people that pose a threat to the public.
      Part 2: It is a given that we have the right to fee ourselves and protect ourselves. So what about this whole tyranny thing. Free Will my friend. God, or whatever you believe, gave humans Free Will. All, all, all, people want to live free. They do not want to be told what to eat, what to drive, how big their soft drink can be, where to live, how much money they can earn, whether or not you can abortion, who you can marry, how or what to worship.. People, all people want to live their lives as they see fit without interference.
      America is not a piece of land or a piece of cloth with stars and stripes or a statue in New Your Harbor. America is an idea. It is a concept. Never anywhere on earth was a place created with the simple idea that you can live here and live your life the way you want. You are free to be anything you want or be nothing. Here in this place a person can know freedom, here you can be part of the whole or stand alone. I believe that this nation was created by divine guidance to be a land of freedom and an example for the world. The 2nd Amendment was written by our founding father to protect the concept, the idea of a free nation. They had the foresight to know that a free people would not give-up their freedom and needed the ability to fight anyone who would take our freedom.

      Now I don’t know but I suspect you will respond to my post with all kinds of names and general criticism and blah, blah, blah and that’s fine but you know I am right.

    9. @ Mc Ruger.

      So GOD gave you the right to own a gun. I’ve thought I’ve heard everything. But GOD gave you, Mc Ruger, the DIVINE right too own a gun.

      That’s a Hot One. So, GOD personally came down from the Heavens, touch you on the shoulder, and told you, YOU MC RUGER. You have the DIVINE RIGHT too own a GUN’S. Did he/she give you also give a DIVINE GOD GUN PERMIT TOO! What does God’s signature look like? Are you going to post on the Internet, so everyone else can see it.

    10. Secundius

      If that is what you took from my post you are without question the biggest freaking moron that ever lived. I mean a person would actually have to practice to come across as dumb as you obviously are. You are so stupid In fact you are not worth anymore of my time.

    11. Secundius

      Seriously, no one can be as stupid as you appear to be. You have got to be doing this on purpose just to try to piss people off for kicks.
      All I did was express my view on the subject and you have some kind of total mental breakdown. I’m serious you really need to seek help and don’t wait, go right now. I actually feel sorry for you now.

    12. @ Mc Ruger.

      There ONLY three way’s you can get Divine Rights. The first two, are either KING and/or QUEEN. Considering we, the People of the United States of America, do not live in a Constitutional Monarchy system. That rules or the the first two options. The third way is by GOD. And considering you have ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF that God gave you Divine Rights. So you have NO Divine Rights. What you do have is the Right to bear Arms, by Constitutional Law. As written in Amendment II of the Bill of Rights, ratified 15 December 1791 CE…

    13. Secundius,, I’m not trying to be mean or a smart ass or even trying to show you up. The fact is if you are still arguing about this and you do not understand my post you are just not intelligent enough to bother with. You just don’t get it and you never will. You will never understand the right or the passion of loving the concept that created this nation. I actually feel sorry for you. Now, I would suggest you drop it. You are just to brainwashed to bother with.

    14. I think (would have to double check) its Luke: 22 Jesus said, “Sell your garment and buy a sword”. My bible is out in my truck, so I would have to look to make sure on the exact wording. GMan & Mc Ruger, well spoken words. You are arguing with idiots, so you might as well save your time for something else. I myself am for ” PEACE THRU SUPERIOR FIREPOWER “.

    15. Yes Steve, Luke 22:36. However there are actually several passages that would suffice. I’m just tired of dealing with these people.

    16. Beau- Unfortunately for your argument you totally ignore the operative phrase in G-Man’s challenge to you. That phrase is, “THAT ISN’T ALREADY ON THE BOOKS”. Only ignoring that phrase would allow you to twist what he said and demand he explain why any laws are required. In short, your argument is no different than someone arguing we need a law requiring all new cars sold in the US be equipped with seat belts when in fact that law already exists.
      I think you need to use the late comedienne Gilda Radner’s “Emily” character’s famous punchline- “Never mind.”

    17. @ bob h.

      It really depends on how it’s phrased IN the books that matter.

      For Example, The Amendment II, as written in the Constitution of the United States of America, of December 15, 1791 CE. “A well regulated Militia, being necessary TO the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed”.

      Now, the NRA’s version of the Amendment II, as written by the NRA in 1934 CE. “A well regulated Militia, being necessary FOR the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed”. Do You See the Difference NOW.

      “If it ain’t broke, Don’t fix it”.

    18. bob, you ignorant boob. (get the SNL reference?)

      Your focus on BS is not important. It’s about that STUPID phrase I always here on this topic, and thats the nonsensical attempt to show some equivalence of guns to cars, steak knives and chainsaws. It’s such a BS argument, but it works so perfectly with the truly ignorant, like a dog whistle, and it shows you’re not being logical and not very smart.

      There is NO correlation between inanimate objects created for another purpose and guns. I could kill you with a cupcake for cryin’ out loud. And still we hear the retarded mantra, “Nobody’s calling for the banning of cupcakes”.

      The problem with posting here is that you terrified fanatics are being led to believe we’re very close to outright gun bans. We are not. This is the gun industry and their new marketing arm, the NRA, who used to be a gun owners and hunting and safety club before they decided to go for the $$$ by lobbying for manufacturers. Follow the money, look at their income, salaries and sheer profits. Talk about your bloated organizations.

      Then we’re seeing the wanna-be domestic terrorists posting here (who’ve probably never fought in a war) begging for a shoot-out with the Feds and President Obama. There were crowds of these buffoonish X-box avatar types at the welfare rancher, and racist Cliven Bundys ranch. All Pussies.

    19. @ Beau: When you constantly fringe on the ridiculous, how do you ever expect to convince anyone you’ve made a valid point?

      Twisting my words when they are clearly there for everyone else to see and refer back to only shows how demented a person you truly are.

      I know you think you can get away with it in real society as you gossip like a school girl and twist what someone else has previously said in order that you may manipulate into some warped point of contention for yourself later, but you’re an idiot to not take into account readers here can simply scroll back within the same forum and read what was actually written, and understand in the context a reasonable person should have perceived it to begin with.

      Yes, it is immensely painful for you to constantly be “one-uped” after every post you make, so why not just go do something you are better suited at. I’m not quite certain what that may be, but I’m sure you could find something to piddle away your time while more productive individuals here continue adult conversations that actually make a difference in the world. Tootles…

    20. Your second paragraph disqualifies anything you will ever say from here on for the rest of your Left loving life. It is the most asinine statement I’ve read on this post since Secundius started spewing about SHARIA Law. That paragraph is so stupid that I couldn’t even read the rest of your post.

      Well, by that standard we should eliminate all laws, since it’s apparently useless to you to have any laws. After all, laws don’t ‘actually’ prevent any crime. Right? Why can’t a 10 year old go buy an AR-15? Why not my insane adult nephew who rages at insignificant exchanges with anyone? Been in and out of family court for years. Nobody wants him armed – nobody

    21. @ G-Man.

      Why don’t you tell everybody about the NEW Governmental Agency the GOP, Republican Tea Party are going too fund and Enforce with You at the Helm of the Department. The Department of State Health & Reproductive Rights Impressment Agency, or SHARIA Law.

    22. @ Secondius: Quite a mature dialogue you’ve developed for yourself there. As you diligently hacked away at your keyboard I’m certain you beamed at your own false sense of cleverness.

      But in reality, pitifully rock bottom is an apropos descriptor as you find yourself desperately reaching into your imaginary fantasy for antidotes because you are truly void of any real substance for a legitimate come-back.

      You probably snickered like a pre-teen as you clicked submit. How pathetic of an existence.

    23. Hey Secundius knock off the Sharia Law crap. If anyone is in support of Muslims and Sharia law it is your president and the “progressives” and you know it. Just drop it. This is supposed to be a gun discussion site.

    24. You mean the same President whom the right slammed for going to Reverend Wrights Christian church for 20+ years is now a Muslim and wants sharia law?

      What a deceptive ruse! Hide in plain sight as a Christian, when you’re actually a Muslim. Very clever.

      But not as clever as President Obamas parents were with their posting of Barrack Obamas BIRTH ANNOUNCEMENTS in two Hawaiian newspapers the day he was born back in Kenya. Who knew a Kenyan born Muslim terrorist, with a middle name Hussein, who believes in Sharia law, yet posed as a Christian for 20+ years, was going to someday get lawfully elected as President of The United States? TWICE! Very, very clever indeed.

      Yea, if we don’t agree with you, WE must support Muslims and sharia law.
      Reminds me of George (MORON) Bush and his; “You’re with us, or you’re a terrorist’ mantra. Like Bush, you’re an embarrassment to America.

    25. Look what you morons have turned this site into. It’s called THE SHOOTERS LOG you idiots. If you want to act like children go to Craigslist.

    26. @ Mc Ruger.

      You know Mc Ruger, how lucky you are being CLUELESS and STUPID…

      Where do you think G-Man, is going to be in the UP-AND COMING 2nd American War if it should come. Not of the Front Line, Secondary Line or even in the Reserve Line of Battle. NO, He’s going to be somewhere safe, living of his Millions, like Eire (oh excuse me Mc Ruger, that’s Ireland, too you.) waiting for the DUST to settle. And come back pretending to be the Conquering Hero, that all seem to make him too be.

    27. What the hell do I have to do with G-Man.. You’re the one that can’t seem to get enough of him. I hope you all enjoy acting like 12 year olds. I am going to find a gun discussion site.

  18. There is a problem in America with guns stop the denial .That is why there is still a gun control debate. Why don’t we end the gun control debate by doing something by getting guns out of the hands of criminals and people with mental issue which prevent them from handling guns safely? This is what most people want. Imagine if the lawful gun owners write the laws instead of gun banner, It can be done by stop saying no to anything said, and start leading the debate on these two points.

    1. njones- you need to rethink the statement, “There is a problem in America with guns”. Tens of thousands die in automobile crashes every year while hundreds of thousands die in hospitals. Do we have a automobile or hospital problem? No. We have a problem with careless or negligent drivers and medical personnel.
      You want lawful gun owners to lead the debate? That’s good but bear in mind when you allow someone to define the terms of a debate you automatically make them the winner of that debate. Subsequently when we lawful gun owners start leading the debate the very first thing we need to do is swear to NEVER use the phrase, “America has a gun problem”, or any of it’s permutations.

    2. @ bob h.

      The same can be said that “America has a drowning in bathtubs problem, or any of it’s permutations”. In, yet people DO drown in Bathtubs.

  19. G-Man and jim smith:
    Sounds like more bureaucracy building to me. Plays right into to the hands of the bureaucrats. Slam the criminal if he use a gun, not everybody else. Again Lord Acton’s quote sums it up: “Bureaucracy is undoubtedly the weapon and sign of a despotic government, inasmuch as it gives whatever government it serves, despotic power.”

  20. Those rabid dogs who seek to limit gun ownership if not abolish it all together are on the prowl to exploit this mid-term election victory as we become complacent and they crush us in our own decadence. The same as Soviet doctrine. We are dealing with Communistic zealots who want a new world order and to make that happen, the armed American citizen will need to be eliminated by legislation or whatever means are available. Continue to support one another, those who serve the 2nd Amendment, believe in the U.S. Constitution and in the total defeat of Communism in any form or Government worldwide. America stands free because of Veterans…Veterans who swore to support the Constitution of the United States against ALL enemies, both foreign AND domestic. Can I get an Amen?

  21. Proud to be one of those CT “scofflaws” referred to in the article.

    Come and get me! You better have a warrant and you’d better ask to execute it. Otherwise………..

  22. If any of you are really ready to “get off the couch”, sign up for an Appleseed. You will learn the real story of the birth of American Liberty and improve your marksmanship skills at the same time. Come learn the very real sacrifices made by our founders and let it inspire you to action today.

    Shoot Boss
    Ohio Appleseed

  23. Fighting against the anti-gun coalitions today requires realizing we are up against a “dumbed-down” America which is being kept dumbed-down by two major forces. The first and primary foe of the Second Amendment/Constitution is the once “main-stream media”. While they have taken quite a WELL DESERVED beating in the last few decades, they are still a formidable propaganda machine swaying the imbeciles who make up too much of the American populace.
    Then….just where did all these imbeciles come from? The public school systems. With the relentless inculcation of “young minds full of mush”, these nefarious leftie-loons have poisoned the minds of so many generations with their rewritten histories and selective indoctrination.
    Let us focus on those two enemies…..the media and the public education systems. Until we FOCUS on the ENEMY, we are just pushing boulders up the hill. We must FLATTEN the hills if we ever expect to secure our Constitution.
    To do this, we must stop advertising in the loony-left media and as consumers, we must totally stop patronizing those who choose to advertize in such media. The new york times is on life support right now, as they are for decades now, losing money keeping that despicable rag alive. Further, you must know who you are doing business with. I didn’t just pick my lawyers for their trial skills and knowledge of the court systems, I chose them, and chose to keep them because we share a like-mindedness politically. Same with my dentist, my doctors, my plumber and electricians, etc. Select who you do or don’t do business with very carefully. Why feed the enemy?
    Next, involve yourself with your children’s schools and curriculum. Find out what materials your children are being given to them, and be ready to challenge what is being taught. For too long, the enemies of America have hidden in our classrooms. They need to be exposed to the light of truth and removed from positions where they can destroy our children.
    Basically, it is time to take a hardened stand EVERYWHERE against the forces that are trying to destroy America. We can no longer afford complacency or the status quo.

    1. Big Bill:
      I think you are right on. The liberals have infested government bureaucracies, and threaten, coerce, and prosecute citizens opposed to their agenda. This is usually accomplished by administrative law. Must read article on this is Hamburger’s article in Imprimis, Sept. 2014, “The History and Danger of Administrative Law.” This whole approach of admin law is questionable about being constitutional, as Hamburger writes about it.
      To media and education, I would add drugs, and the demise of the family. A biggie is Mondale’s push for CAPTA (Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act). This has created huge bureaucracies that has undermined the constitution. Another is look at the huge increase in SWAT attacks on gun owners and manufacturers in the last few years.
      I try very hard to limit spending my money that supports liberal agenda states. My handle is Boycott—-suggest to all, use your money as a weapon and spend it wisely. For my gun buying associates, look at where those gun companies’ executive offices are located.
      To close Lord Acton’s quote is right on:
      “Bureaucracy is undoubtedly the weapon and sign of a despotic government, inasmuch as it gives whatever government it serves, despotic power.”

    2. So, someone told you this DIVISIVENESS would help our country move forward?

      You’re saying that we shouldn’t do business, share education, or in any way deal with 90%+ of the USA because they disagree with you.
      Exactly how does that approach help anybody long-term? You’re hugely outnumbered.

      That 90%+ represents the number of Americans who FAVOR better gun laws, NOT the removal of your guns or mine, except for the insane. We also want the gun show loophole closed so terrorists and criminals cannot easily buy guns.

      You’re seeing the boogyman everywhere. It sounds like you’re in imminent danger of the Feds coming for you any minute now. Get yer’ gun! Quick!

      How do you sleep? We’re the enemy? Flatten the hills? Lets take a hardened stand EVERYWHERE? WTF?

      I can safely declare that you are UN-American. And shamefully so.

    3. Beau: Be careful near the spider web of bureaucracy you are weaving, or you may be food for the big bad spiders lurking in the same.

  24. The Washington and Colorado legislatures should move to try to de-fang the more onerous portions of the universal background check laws by passing legislation to give anyone free, anonymous, public access to the federal NICS background check database of persons prohibited from owning firearms and then tell private sellers if you sell or give a firearm to someone and don’t retain a piece of paper that documents you did a favorable NICS check on the buyer, you could be held liable if they commit a gun-related crime. If the only goal is to have “universal background checks” there is really no reason to get the government or an FFL involved any further in the process.

    1. We narrowly failed to take both houses of the Colorado legislature. Chances of repealing gun-control legislation? Slim. Not that we won’t try.

    2. @ Jim Smith: I am going to try and be as polite as I can to not offend you while explaining just how harebrained your idea is and how immensely troublesome and unlawful it would be on so many levels. First you must understand what NICS is, and is not.

      First and foremost, NICS (National Instant Criminal Background Check System) is NOT a database full of names of bad guys that are not allowed to have weapons.

      What NICS actually IS – is a complex network of multiple criminal records database systems already in use by various law enforcement agencies for their own background checks during the course of their law enforcement duties.

      Individually any time each of these official criminal databases are accessed, they must be manipulated and intentionally queried by an actual official entity authorized by the government. So just imagine the type of authorization required to access multiple agencies’ criminal database systems – but from one place, and all at once.

      Due to the Privacy Act and other privacy laws in our country, each and every time ANY official law enforcement database is accessed, and for ANY reason, each and every hit MUST be for official reasons and as such the individual person accessing it is electronically authorized, authenticated, monitored, and heavily logged as to the reason and purpose for each access.

      Because of the seriousness and extreme legal implications in instantly denying one’s Second Amendment rights over the phone, and also to prevent the Government from violating U.S. Privacy Laws – which even a rehabilitated criminal has a right to, the Government tasked the FBI with establishing a comprehensive system of checks that we know as the National Instant Criminal Background Check System or NICS.

      As I stated, it is not one database just sitting there willy-nilly and ready for anyone to access, but is actually a facility located at the FBI’s Criminal Justice Information Services (CJIS) Division in Clarksburg, West Virginia, and staffed with official personnel authorized and trained to conduct these checks across multiple database platforms. Even then, due to the seriousness of the final results, it takes a specially trained individual with the certified title of “NICS Examiner” to make the final decision after reviewing all the available information on an individual.

      As well, each FFL that calls in a NICS check is a registered license holder and must provide their authorized identification number during each call for tracing.

      So with your extremely ill-advised suggestion, I hope now you can see the illegal implications, the harm, and the lawsuits that would follow were the government to open all this privacy act information up to the random public.

      And even if it were as simply as inputting a name and getting a simple “YES or “NO” returned over say the Internet… there would be no way to prevent deceptive alternative use by employers, prospective renters, contractual agreements, and even personal relationships from abusing such a public system for ulterior reasons.

      I hope this was more informative than offensive, but it scares the bejeezus out of me that there are people out there that casually think up lamebrain things and then post it as ideas before ever really researching the consequences. Most of the time we call them “liberals”.

    3. @G-Man

      Re: “What NICS actually IS – is a complex network of multiple criminal records database systems”

      And all those databases are seamlessly interconnected. From the NICS factsheet – “The NICS is a computerized background check system designed to respond within 30 seconds on most background check inquiries so the FFLs receive an almost immediate response”

      Re: “Due to the Privacy Act and other privacy laws”

      I think your making more out of this than it is. The NICS system is really a go/no go process and no useful information has to be displayed to facilitate phishing expeditions for identity theft or other nefarious purposes other than what was already known by the user making the query. It’s certainly no more revealing than the FAA’s pilot and mechanic license query system, which provides more detailed information on presumably law-abiding citizens.

      Re: “it takes a specially trained individual with the certified title of “NICS Examiner” to make the final decision”

      A NICS query returns a Proceed, Deny, or Delay status and no other personal information. Most queries are approved (Proceed) ands an examiner only gets involved if a Deny or Delay status is returned. Also, while some FFL’s do contact NICS by phone, direct online access is available over the Internet via the NICS E-check interface.

      Re: “As well, each FFL that calls in a NICS check is a registered license holder and must provide their authorized identification number during each call for tracing.

      True – The current system allows only FFL’s to directly query the federal system but some states exercise the option to serve as Points of Contact (POC) that require FFL’s to go through them for NICS access. If a state is a POC (Colorado is – I don’t about Washington) I see no reason the state couldn’t provide an indirect interface to the free and anonymous to the public by providing a generic identification number and a State Transaction Number (STN) in order to get NICS to process the request. The key here is that since the current federal system only allows FFL’s direct access, in order to provide unrestricted public access, a state would have to agree to be a POC and set up the interface.

      Re: “ there would be no way to prevent deceptive alternative use by employers, prospective renters, contractual agreements, and even personal relationships from abusing such a public system for ulterior reasons”.

      I don’t see any of your examples as deceptive or ulterior. If I’m having dealings with someone and they are prohibited from owning a firearm, I’d like to know about it – and they may want to know also if it’s because of an error in the NICS database. Also, I see the real benefit of this proposal is how it goes beyond being about just gun control by helping identify the illusive killer with questionable behavior patterns or mental health issues that is causing so many problems. As it stands now there is no easy, fast, non-bureaucratic method for someone to determine if a suspicious person (client, neighbor, employee, student, etc) is a potential threat to society. If someone thinks an individual could be a threat, a query to a public NICS database would at least tell him or her in a few seconds if the individual could obtain a firearm. Then, armed with that information the appropriate authorities could be notified and they could decide if it was erroneous information or whether to investigate further. As it stands now, if you tell authorities you know a suspicious person they will probably ignore you, but if you tell them you know such a person and by the way according to the NICS database he can buy a firearm, they will probably be more inclined to investigate rather than risk embarrassment later if the worst happens. The same would be true if you see a suspicious acquaintance with a firearm when the NICS query says he’s prohibited from having one. It would also help provide piece of mind and a method for victims of violent crimes to ensure their assailants either on parole or still at large have not been excluded from the database because of some bureaucratic foul-up.
      Other specific public safety issues where it would be useful are:

       allow potential victims to vet known stalkers or acquaintances under a restraining order
       allow gun clubs to vet potential members
       allow shooting ranges to vet suspicious customers
       allow mental health workers to vet troubled individuals like the Aurora Colorado theater killer
       allow resource officers and school officials to vet suspicious students like the Arapahoe High School killer in Colorado
       allow police officers to vet anyone they contact – (note the routine background checks performed by police often do not include information about firearms because they do not directly access the NICS system – Google denver post felon database)

      Re: “before ever really researching the consequences”

      What Consequences? We have free, anonymous, online national and local databases for sex offenders with arrest history, pictures, names and addresses – why not one for people prohibiting from owning firearms that only provides a yes or no answer? Also, in my state anyone can currently run a background check to include an arrest record on anyone else for about $7 if you know a name and DOB but it won’t tell you if they are prohibited from owning firearms

    4. @ Jim Smith: I am a federal agent, rather high up I might add, and can tell you that you are just going to have to trust me when I say you are still misinterpreting how the “SYSTEM” works.

      The “SYSTEM” is not some application that returns a simple status code. That status is returned to the FFL only after an authorized NICS operator has done the physical research across the multiple database systems from the varying agencies. Then that NICS operator passes the results on to the NICS Examiner for final approval. That NICS Examiner then is the only one that may tag the final check with a status of Proceed, Deny, or Delay.

      By law the categories of statuses must be a human determination, not a computer. After all the human intervention has concluded, the NICS Examiner then passes back their decision to an FFL either via the telephone or electronically depending on how the FFL initiated the request.

      And while they are quite good at their job, their goal is to return a result within 30 seconds; but anyone that has purchased a gun knows it is rare if they ever do it that fast. Five minutes is more realistic from start to finish and often even longer depending on the season and backlog.

      Regardless, each and every check is done by human beings and has the official’s name assigned to the permanent record of each NICS check.

      There is just way too much more to expound upon that involve complexities that would take up a law degree to explain to you why your idea would never, ever be lawfully implementable.

      The laws behind PA, FOIA, and FOUO actually employs full-time teams of specialists and government attorneys that do nothing but ensure our agencies are trained and continually recertified to work with private information held in databases on U.S. citizens.

      I know it is frustrating, but again, to close this debate (that never was), you will simply have to trust me that aside from your severe misunderstanding as to how the system is actually run, as well as your lack of knowledge on strict privacy act laws, what appears logical to you simply is not all that logical once you actually understand the complex and official internal workings that comprises how your government actually ticks.

    5. @G-Man

      Re: “status is returned to the FFL only after an authorized NICS operator has done the physical research”

      That’s not obvious from their website that explains the process takes 30 seconds but as far as I’m concerned how the status is returned is not relevant to what I’m proposing which is to have a state POC establish a public portal that uses the state interface to the NICS and allows anyone to indirectly query the NICS database. As far as the privacy laws the only thing the person making the query would see other than what he/she entered is the returned status and maybe the NICS and State transaction numbers.

    6. @G-Man; I’m retired Ga. DOC, and I have some serious questions for you. How can we communicate off this site?

    7. @THX-1138: Well unless the Federal Government did a very bad job vetting my Security Clearance for my law enforcement career over the past 32 years, I’m going to have to say you’re just stupid.

    8. @ G-Man.

      Just like you, Redirecting the question in another direction…

      PS. G-man, How’s your Presidential Pardon coming along. Must be just the same as Oliver North’s and I. Lewis “Scooter’ Libby, as well, I guess!

    9. @ THX-1138 –

      G-mans already admitted (on this web site) that he ran a background check on me because I mash his buttons like the low-level donkey he is.

      So now it’s American to run background checks without legal papers so this numbskull can try and threaten other Americans who PAY HIS FU**ING SALARY. Sound like a wanna-be mid-level criminal to me.

      He forgets he works FOR the people. Now we’re the enemy? Really?

      Where are the alleged LIBERTARIANS on this blog?

    10. That is not the only reason for NICS altho it serves to prohibit sale to known convicted offenders. The second even broader purpose is to provide for tracing weapons used in a crime to purchaser ID. Retaining these sales records by John Q. cannot be expected to be successful. That is why the serial numbers are connected to the FFL number which sold it and retain sales records so that these those weapons can be traced to a purchaser ID.

    11. @arationofreason

      All gun laws only apply to law abiding citizens and under this proposal if John Q doesn’t retain a record of the transaction, when the firearm is traced to him, he risks being prosecuted both from a criminal and civil perspective. Criminals of course don’t care but I suspect law abiding citizens do if they want to retain their gun rights and avoid civil litigation. Also, if this is a really a concern, the anti-gun folks will have to admit it’s really about a registry and not about universal background checks to keep people safe

    12. @arationofreason

      I forgot to mention – I don’t see this proposal as replacing the new laws that require a universal background check to go through an FFL – I see it as an another option. That way if someone doesn’t want the risk or responsibility of retaining a record of a transfer, he/she can still do the transfer through a FFL.

  25. We can do what we can do as individuals. Keep your story straight and for heaven sakes know your facts. It has been amazing how and when conversations begin and when opportunity knocks we need to be able to voice an opinion that is factual, honest, calm and convincing.

    Politicians will always be political and it is important that elected officials, even the ones supposedly on our side, get and occasional reminder that they work for us and that 2A is vital to their keeping a job. We have an opportunity now to reclaim America but the RINOs / moderates and posers will piss it away without proper supervision.

    A recent post on this site questioned the validity of organizations like NAGR, NRA and GOA. The posting claimed that these groups do us no good and are just making money for a hand full within these organizations. I beg to differ. I believe the stronger theses organization are and the more member they have the better the better it is for all of us. None of us have money to throw away but if you are buying a Christmas or Birthday present anyway how about giving someone a membership in one of these fine groups. Imagine the impact that doubling the membership would have in Washington and Locally.
    It is fun to bitch and argue, it is easy to point fingers and lay blame but the fact is Our Future is in Our Hands.

  26. I’ll be totally honest. I get tired of gun writers, editors, and others always appeasing Democrat voters within our ranks. How so? To continually pretend that Republican politicians need to be suspected and watched “almost as closely” as Democrat politicians is totally disingenuous. As an example:

    2008 Supreme Court Heller decision, ruling the 2nd Amendment an individual right: Court vote Yes: 5, all appointed by (R) presidents.

    2013 Assault Weapon Ban, banning forever the manufacture and sale of all capable semiautomatic firearms and magazines over 10 rounds: Spearheaded by Obama (D), Feinstein (D), Biden (D), Reid (D), Holder (D). Senate vote defeating: Yes ban: 1-(R), No ban: 44-(R)

  27. Thank you for this article. While I wanted to take a breather after this last election, this article helped me assess my involvement to the cause. While I know we can never rest, I feel confident that my contributions do make a difference.

    My wife and I are each contributing and dedicated members to both the NRA and NAGR. As well, we are contributing members of Judicial Watch and several other PACs which are tied directly to some of the heaviest hitting Congressional incumbents. Some of whom I have developed a personal relationship with throughout my career.

    In addition to this, we regularly use our social media accounts to spread the conservative word which keeps literally thousands of friends and family members Nationwide up to speed and motivated in the “RIGHT” direction.

    At work I have the luxury of ensuring my subordinates are reminded to vote and I go out of my way to ensure subordinate supervisors encourage their staff and agents to vote by providing additional time off to do so.

    Something I ask all to consider – This fight is never ending. One must learn to incorporate it into their lifestyle. Budget for regular donations and learn to not miss the money. Even the smallest donations of say $5 adds up. Don’t fail to contribute just because you think it won’t make a difference… because trust me, it does.

    Learn to be more vocal and assertive about your positions, but remain respectful. Often you will be surprised to discover that certain person at work or the gym feels the same way you do and was just laying low for the same reasons you were. Political correctness has pushed many into hiding, but in reality the base is much larger than the liberals think.

    With the strength we really have in numbers, we can easily defeat Hilary in 2016. Keep the faith.

  28. I agree. as gun owners each of us must do what we can to support organizations at both the national and state level that are focused on preservation and expansion of gun rights. Additionally, we should try to introduce new people to the shooting sports. This has always been true, of course, but it is far more important today than it has ever been since we now have elitist billionaires trying to determine which rights they will allow us peasants to have.

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