Legal Issues

From Our Cold, Dead Hands! Okay, Says Buffalo Police

In a defiant speech at the 129th NRA convention in Charlotte, North Carolina on May 20, 2000, Charlton Heston addressed Vice President Al Gore and told the VP and his political allies that they would have to pry guns from Heston’s “cold, dead hands.” It seems that police in Buffalo, New York have responded with, “Fine with us!” At a press conference last week, Buffalo Police Commissioner Daniel Derrenda announced that his agency will dispatch officers to collect guns that belonged to recently deceased pistol permit holders, Fox News reported.

Under state law, when a permit holder passes, his or her estate has only 15 days to either dispose of the firearms or surrender them to authorities, who may hold onto them for as long as two years.

Commissioner Derenda told WGRZ-TV, “We recently started a program where we’re cross referencing all the pistol permit holders with the death records, and we’re sending people out to collect the guns whenever possible so that they don’t end up in the wrong hands. Because at times they lay out there and the family is not aware of them and they end up just out on the street.” Bellevue, Washington-based Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms said the practice “is not simply cold-hearted, it is ghoulish.” CCRKBA Chairman Alan Gottlieb said the report on Fox News affirmed something that gun-rights advocates have contended for years: “Gun registration leads to confiscation.” “The idea that police would peruse the obituaries and compare the names of recently deceased persons with their pistol permit records, and then send officers to take those guns while a family is still grieving their loss is simply unconscionable,” Gottlieb said.

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Comments (219)

  1. “This isn’t just a protest. We are here to openly violate the law.” “We pledge our blood. We will not comply.”

    Olympia, WA — Over the weekend the largest felony civil disobedience rally ever held in American history took place. It is estimated that anywhere from 1,000 to 3,000 well armed gun owners showed up to the state capital in Olympia to openly violate the unconstitutional gun law, i594.
    “This isn’t just a protest. We are here to openly violate the law.”
    On his website Seim explains the ominous nature of the legislation:
    On Nov 4th 2014 a piece of legislation called i594 passed in Washington State (read text). It will make so much as handing a gun to a friend a felony. While this started here in Washington, it was funded by big out of State money and you are next.
    Seim goes on to emphasize the importance of this day of resistance:
    This stand is about all of America. It’s about public officials deciding if they will keep their oath, or support tyranny. It’s about us deciding if we will stand or allow liberty to be lost.
    On Dec 13th we gather for the largest Felony civil disobedience rally in American history. Thousands are coming to stand at the capital in Olympia. This is not simply a protest. We will openly exchange, buy and sell and trade guns and start a plan to break apart this legislation and violate i594 in every possible way. Because ALL law that violates the Constitution is not law, it is VOID!
    We the people will not tolerate this law. We will not bow down and lick the boots of tyrants, we will stand for the liberty of our children? We’re not waiting for politicians, judges or lawyers. Our birthright is NOT to be touched. We gather and we will affirm that liberty.
    Original RSVP’s grew to over 6,000, so police decided that it would be in their best interests not to enforce the law. The Washington State Patrol announced there would be no arrests for exchanging guns – not even for selling guns.
    Like the professional liberty flexing guru that he is, Seim refused to even obtain a permit to hold the rally, citing the right of people to peaceably assemble.
    The sheer number of people that showed up, along with the attendance of lawmakers and even law enforcement, made this event hard to dismiss as a fringe group of people, “clinging to their guns.”
    Despite there being over a thousand loaded weapons, the protest went off without incident. Washington State Trooper Guy Gill predicted beforehand, “Most of these folks are responsible gun owners. We probably will not have an issue.”
    According to Another rally in Olympia is planned for January 15, and another one in Spokane on December 20. The Second Amendment Foundation, headquartered in Bellevue, intends to sue the state over I-594, and will be lobbying the legislature to get the law changed or repealed.
    We commend Gav Seim’s efforts to organize such an amazingly powerful and effective protest. This is how change is sought, and made.



    1. Mc Ruger: Thanks for the post. I think most of pushers on this I594 was organized and funded by the NY liberals, same type of junk pulled in Colorado. The right wing mass media did not really push hard against this proposition and give it ample time, because of the school shooting there. Of course the liberals used the shooting big time for their advantage, and I think they outspent pro gun 3 to 1. Also, the debate put on by Medved, et al, was a whitewashed joke using kid gloves, instead of being a heavy weight hard hitter. To many rhino republicans kissing up to the liberal democrats in that mossyback state makes for mushy minded group of voters in the big metro areas (Seattle, Tacoma, Lake Stevens etc. (look at the county voting returns from these areas) pushed it over the top. Also, I think the pro gun people putting on the ballot I591 confused the issue, and instead should have used their resources taking I594 head on. Also, not even a mouse squeak was heard from the NRA.

  2. Australia is in the news again. Residents of far north Queensland Australia are in shock after the bodies of eight children were found following a multiple stabbing in a suburban Cairns, Australia home.

    Australia must ban and confiscate ALL knives immediately. Knives are the cause of murders. No one needs an assault knife in their home. Knives are for military purposes only. Knives have no useful purpose in a civilized society such as Australia where guns are banned.

  3. Michael – Your right on standard issue. The Brits and the Aussies took anything that would shoot into 1943. Their Special Op’s weapons of choice The M1 Garand’s and just like the Nazi’s, 30cal. Carbines. These same people including the Canadians would latch onto any and all 22cal handguns made in the UNITED STATES of GOD BLESSED AMERCIA. Of coarse they would turn down no 22cal handguns and especially Beretta’s,Walther’s and Mauser’s just to name a few. Nor would any troops in any army or branch f service.

    This just good gun talk and not argumentative.

  4. Bullet: Also they supported leaders setting them up for the war, then after the war rid themselves of the great leaders that got them through the war, and then headed down the same old road again. Wonder what has bewitched them, must be too much liberalism.

  5. My intention was certainly not, Who has the better safe. In case you missed it, my intent was to shed light on the fact “Most” murders with firearms, mass or other wise, are committed with I’ll gotten firearm… either bought illegally or stolen from “Irresponsible” firearms owners not securing their firearms. Had the firearms that were used in “All” the recent mass killings been “Properly Secured” those tragedies would have been avoided.

    1. Larry: I do not fear thieves, murders, and mass murders in a fully open gun society. I do fear mass murders and thieves in a controlled gun society. Back to, it takes a good guy with a gun to counter a bad guy with a gun. The threat from the anti 2A movement, and liberalism in general, is much greater than thieves, murders, and mass murders.

      The liberal mind set for gun control for civilians, also infiltrates into the military. My marine nephew was in Lebanon when the marine hotel was bombed. Did you know at the time marine sentries were ordered to have dust clips in their pieces. That probably cost the lives of 300 marines. Look at some of the garbage orders our servicemen are under today, in the middle east. And we worry about thieves, murders, and mass murders. The liberal causes our problems, and they are internal. A fully armed law abiding citizenry, maintaining their freedom, can handle the thieves, murders, and mass murders, with or without the courts, police, and liberal politicians.

    2. @ Boycott

      I fail to see your reasoning, Thieve’s don’t tell you the going to rob you they just do it, Just like Murderer’s and Mass Murderer’s, they just do it. And they certainly, don’t give a Damn about you Political Affiliation, they just do it.

    3. et: Don’t make mushy targets for these type of people. Hard targets make them pay, even the sly old thief picking the wrong dwelling can get a taste of it. For the mass murders lots of armed people around have a better change of reducing it, than the police arriving after the fact. The law courts are already easy on murders, when caught. How many have been executed in your state? Notice that these liberal states, like NY, do not execute many people, but make it very hard on the law abiding gun owner (don’t forget the BPD topic here). My high school janitor coached the high school rifle team (liberals have stopped that now), he was a decorated WWII vet, an auxiliary reserve deputy sheriff, and was very capable of packing in the school. That principle needed more than her body to protect the pupils, when the devil visited the school on that awful day, but also let us not forget the 300 marines mentioned above.

      PS, missed the point about the lib politcian, he is the one making it hard on the law abiding, not the lawless. The lawless love them.

    4. @ Boycott: When the 241 USMC Marines were killed, President Ronald Reagan was in office. After the killing did he got after the bombers, NO. He just packed up and order the rest of the Marines Home!!! So I still wondering what YOUR moral to the story is.

    5. et: To general on my part. Moral is wasted bodies and nothing gained: just like Korean, and VN. When major military action is required a declaration of war is needed. In all the above messes the politicians have the backdoor open for their escape. Bombers are dead, and I am doing your homework, so here is another link on this fiasco. And after reading it seems inline with my nephew’s comment on the dust clip. Moral on this is put yourself in a dangerous situation, and told you can load up when the danger is on the verge of killing you. I don’t think you would like those orders.

    6. @Boycott: Only dead bomber are the one’s that blew themselves us, not the one’s that issued the order’s. Their still alive!

      And as far a North Korea is concern, technically were still at war with them. We sign a truce with them in 1953, not a Peace Treaty. Or have you FORGOTTEN. Being 118-years plus old will do that to a person…

    7. ET: My collection of books on the police action in Korean is extensive. So, let us not go there, because BPD and the lib politician is still a bigger threat to me. What about you? No wonder this old world seems a series of worn out replays of the same old scenes, just at different times. When you get there don’t let the gray hairs of your old age belie your wisdom.

    8. ET: I’ve been there, and put my time in that mess. So, I also have a collection of books on VN, and spent much time trying to understand how we got into that mess. The one biggie again is no declaration of war (back to the other post on this). It was the liberals again starting the mess, and then running out the back door, that they left open, for their escape, when it turned sour on them. Caulk up loosing VN to the liberals (same mind set as the bunch in the BPD and NY), that do not believe in doing it the Constitutional way.

    9. Boycott: In reference to useless wars, USMC Mar. Gen Smedley Butler, winner of two (2) Metal of Honors said it best in his 32 page book, “War Is a Racket.” Gen. Butler said he spent most of his entire 30+ years military career invading innocent Caribbean Islands, so Dole Pineapple could operate their banana and pineapple plantations. And, all the while, our government led us to believe we were fighting for “freedom.” What a crock of horse mature.

      I believe Gen Butler paid the ultimate price for telling the truth. He died prematurely in a military hospital at the ripe old age of 58 years.

      The preceding comment, and any other comment on this page, is my opinion only. It represents my effort to research true history for the edification of mankind. If I am wrong on any point please correct me.

    10. Fair: I’m going to have to brush up on this guy. I do know we used a few Nazis after WWII, and Barbie was one of the worst. Barbie was used by us in South America against the communist. This guy hated the communist more than us so he worked undercover for us, situations make strange bed fellows. See the link below on this guy. Also some Jewish websites have some good info on him.

  6. If your safe can be compromised by any means other than dyno then you should consider something stronger. Mine weights nearly a ton with twelve 2″ locking bolts in the door…two each at the top and bottom and four on each side. It was placed in the basement before the first floor was installed. The safe will not fit through the access door without destroying a steel reinforced two foot thick foundation… ingenious or not…thieves stand no chance.
    If you are so dead set on the “What If’s” than your intelligence is lacking if you still believe your firearms can be stolen. You talk of “Ingenious Thieves”… Why are you not acting as an “Ingenious Owner”??

    1. @ Larry: In my case, a one-ton mass would go through my apartment floor into the apartment below, until it hits bottom. So I have to be Clever, Improvise and Camouflage my weapons.

    2. Larry: Seems futile to me to keep this, “my safe is better than yours,” rumbling alone. If the political anti 2A thieves are not stopped the gun safes will be empty, and the BPD will be the victors.

  7. Interestingly, Monday’s events have also prompted Australians to revisit their gun laws.

    With Islamic supremacism a mainstream interpretation of Islam, deeply rooted in Islamic scripture and endorsed by many of Islam’s most influential scholars, Australians are beginning to understand the nature of the Islamic threat, and studying their own weaknesses in its wake.

    The United Kingdom has had two beheadings of members of the public in the last two years, with neither police nor civilians able to prevent it. It also has prohibitive gun laws.

    Australians are looking to America, and not the UK for guidance.

    With this sort of threat, the normal calculus of a civilized society with a small, armed (or unarmed) police force upon which the citizens are forced to rely, no longer adds up.

    It is unsurprising that home-grown terrorism is most rampant in nations with strict gun control. It is a reality that Australia’s powerful anti-gun lobby seems to wish to ignore.

    It is times like these that Americans should be thankful for their Second Amendment, and crush any effort or force seeking to weaken or remove it.

    Right now, they are the envy of a growing number of Australians that wish they were armed.

    1. Fair: WWII Jap General during an interview stated Aussies were the best jungle fighters his troops confronted. Seems like their offspring can’t do it better than good old mum and pop.

    2. @ Boycott: What on Earth are you talking about? Japanese Lieutenant General Tsutomu Yoshihara, Chief of Staff of the Japanese South-Sea Region. Compared the Australians, “Ignorant to the extreme, proving themselves unable to match the average Japanese in jungle fighting”

      The only fighting force that even comes close to your statement, were the “Chindits”. A “Special Force” British/Indian fighting force operating in Burma from 1943-1944, under General Orde Winggate.

    3. et: Early in the war (commonwealth (British, Aussies, Canadians)) were being stomped, and Japan was on a roll. Even we felt this in the Philippines, Wake etc. Later the tune started to change, and the braggart was not bragging so much. Aussie recon groups and coast watchers provided significant MI for us. And US Marines trained for jungle warfare in New Zealand. I think the Aussie took the brute of the main Jap force in the Battle for Singapore, instead of the larger British force. Anyway, they fought good with little or no support. Later the Aussies were supplying men for the mess in the Borneo, Indonesian conflict (1960s), and did well in that jungle mess.

    4. @ Boycott: The way you phrased you original post. You made it sound like “Aussie Regulars”, not “Aussie Specialized Units”. And “Australian Coast Watchers” were civilians, not military.

    5. et: Watchers were civ. and the recons came after most of the crushing defeats at the hands of the Japs. The below posted link does refer to a Aussie recon at the Battle of Singapore, and from that trying to convince the Brit of where the beachhead attack would be. This of course was not the specialized recon units developed later. The US Marines used the Raiders also for some of this.

    6. @ Boycott:

      The reason Singapore fell to the Japanese wasn’t the lack of support, it was that they simply ran out of ammunition and food. And the funny thing about it was, the Japanese were in the same “perdickerment”. They simply “out bluffed” the British and Australian forces.

    7. Don’t believe every thing you read about the low crime rate in England. Their burglars kick the front door in and the Brits are at their mercy. How about nuking their small pets in a microwave to show their serious. The Brits begged for guns during WW II to protect their families and country from invasion by the Nazis. These guns were donated by our grandfathers, grandmothers, parents, friends and was to be returned. The dumbasses destroyed them within weeks of the wars end. My grandfather donated a 12 gauge single barrel, a double barrel 16 gauge and single shot 22 rifle. The dumbass Australians got themselves into this B/S now, let them get out of it. If you don’t learn from history it will repeat it’s self. Oh, just one other little thing. The 38/200’s mfg. by S&W and the 303’s mfg. by Stevens, which they’ve never paid for not to mention the grease guns, 30 & 50 cals. they used in WW II. I’m sick of keeping the rest of this liberal world up. The Aussies have forgotten the panic that ran thru their nation when they were worried about the Jap’s invading their country in force.

    8. @ Bullet: The British and the Australians, never used the M3 Grease Gun as a standard submachine gun. Preferring their Sten’s and Sterlings. And the British version of M1919 Air-Cooled Medium Machine Gun, fired the .303-caliber (7.7x56mm/R) round and not the .30-caliber (7.62x63mm) round.

  8. LEGISLATIVE TYRANNY: “Rather then a novel development that Constitution Law did not anticipate, Administrative Power is what Constitutional Law centrally attempted to prohibit thus, even if, the Constitution did not authorize this novel power, it did not prohibit it.”

  9. Hey people – secure you guns properly. Don’t give your info out to anyone!!!!!!! I had my identity stolen and it’s hell. To order anything they want your birth day and etc. Pay with a cash card only. If some outfit sales any info you can sue their sorry asses in small claims court and it will cost them to much to fight you. They’ll pay off and put you on a don’t give info list..

    1. @ Bullet: I can relate to that experience, I had my Identity stolen FOUR-TIMES in Nineteen-Years. And it was a “BITCH” each time to restore my identity. The computer information system that makes easier for them, makes it HARDER for you. And it get’s “Progressively Worse” with every restoration experience.

  10. The entire country of Australia is a gun-free zone.

    TERROR IN SYDNEY: Gunman holding hostages reportedly demands ISIS flag

    A STANDOFF between Australian authorities and a suspected jihadist holding hostages in a Sydney cafe enters its twelfth hour, after five people escaped, including at least one shop employee, above.

    The entire country of Australia is a gun-free zone. No one is allowed to have guns, but the government. I wonder how disarming the citizens helped the hostages in this situation?

  11. Boycott – Most insurance premiums make insurance companies wealthy. I avoid all insurance except those that are absolutely necessary, or have the potential of helping me instead of the insurance companies. I’m also a do-it yourself kind of guy. If I can do something for myself, like installing a safe, the safe in the long run is cheaper and more convenient.

    Bank employees and the government steal from safety deposit boxes. If you have anything more valuable than a bundle of straw in a safety deposit box, my advise is to run as fast as you can and remove same.

    I say use insurance payments to pay for a safe. It’s a known fact that when confronted with a bolted to the floor safe, thieves immediately leave the premises. The safe must be bolted to the floor. Thieves steal the entire safe if not bolted to the floor. And for a bit of added insurance, buy an Internet camera that takes pictures of intruders and emails the pictures to you.

    My house has been broken into three times in the past two years. Law enforcement always arrive after the fact. None of my guns in a safe were stolen. I finally caught the thief in my house with my camera system. The thief temporarily got away, but was later identified by the pictures from my camera. She is now living a very uncomfortable life behind bars.

    1. Fair: Agree about the insurance companies, and safety deposit boxes. My slab is 3.5” thick, so poured a 24” slab for the anchors. Have cameras, but need to upgrade for the internet. Two neighbors installed alarm and strobe light to warn adjacent houses. Next on the list for me is the alarm and lights. Only one farm house has been broken into (3 mile rad) from my home in the last 10 years. County crime records do show a large increase in drug related crimes. Probably only a matter of time before this correlates to home burglaries.

  12. To get back to the insurance issue,adding firearms or any high value item to your Homeowners insurance requires an additional rider to your existing policy detailing the specific item or items to be covered. For instance, your wife’s jewelry or fur coat would require a detailed description and probably a photo. Any guns you want added to the policy would also require specific identification like make, model and SN. Generally such riders add a significant amount to the cost of the policy. I guess the NRA policy has some kind of group discount. The info you give to the insurance company is only used to verify that you actually own the property that you claim as a loss. It is not shared with any government agency although, I guess, it could be subpoenaed.
    My broker suggested that, rather than pay through the nose for riders, I should invest in a good safe, which I did. The initial cost is substantial but it saves in the long run. Mine weighs almost 1000 lbs and is anchored to the concrete slab in the basement. It’s also a good place to keep important documents and other valuable papers and stuff. You have access 24/7. You can’t say that about a safe deposit box.

    1. boycott: If you gun is stolen or lost, then you can’t make an insurance claim on something you can’t ever prove actually existed.

    2. Z: Watch out for some insurance companies, they have a tendency to over insure one, and collect higher premiums. Also, for items in reach of ones income, I think they should self insure; that is just replace it from one’s income if broken or stolen. On guns, I have pictures and all info on them, so if stolen this can be turned over to law enforcement. Homeowners policy just lumps all personal items (includes firearms) together up to a certain amount, and just pays that amount after the deductible, no documentation is required for proof or ownership. Very expensive items, requires documentation. Before insurance companies pay on thefts, or claim on tax filings it has to be reported to law enforcement. Knock on wood I have never had a home burglary, but so far only two auto break-ins, with damage only to the vehicles.

    3. Boycott: Keep in mind all businesses including Insurance Companies and Gun Dealer and/or Sellers, sell customer information to other companies or individuals who request the information. And their are no restrictions on information that can be sold. All a guaranty is, “printed words on a blank piece of paper”, meaningless. And large Corporations have Legal Loopholes to get around, promised guaranties.

    4. Michael: Post about exchanging info on ones business is running rampant on the internet. Go into most web pages and one is bombarded with ads about products one has purchased. The new age of dynamic marketing is upon us. Can’t move around in this world without someone or something observing it.

    5. Boycott: Agreed, but nowadays its like breathing. A part of everyday occurence, your always going to leave a Footprint, Handprint, Fingerprint, Hair Folical, Saliva, etc. It’s virtually impossible to do anything without being noticed or leaving a sample of yourself, somewhere.

    6. That wood must be what your head is made of…never had a home burglary… If I happen to have someone break into my home, there is no way short of a few sticks of dyno to access my firearms. Any “Responsible” firearms owner would not need anymore insurance than an adequate safe. Buy all the insurance you want, but, “No Insurance Company” will cover “Wrongful Death”. Allowing anyone the opportunity to access your firearms without your knowledge and consent is “Negligence” and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law… In other words… I hope you will enjoy your 8X8 room for the rest of your life.

    7. Larry: Something is wrong with my writing, or your reading comprehension is low, or both. Nothing in your response has anything closely related to the intent of my post. Also BPD is still stinking from the dung war. Were you part of it?

    8. Boycott: I’ve read Larry’s post several times know, and I don’t see any flaw’s in his logic. I myself may have written it differently, but no tow rational people see things the same way. You on the other hand keep grasping for the what “if” instead of the what “is”.

    9. No boy, I read and comprehend just fine…. You said it yourself… you have pictures and descriptions of all your “Items” to be turned over to law enforcement should they be stolen. In other words, you will give your written “Confession” for your “Negligence” willingly to the law… How Noble…. when someone is already dead or seriously injured using your firearms.

    10. Michael & Larry: Still missing it. I have the safe it is anchored to 24″ thick concrete slab, read the other post. But I still know this is to keep the average thief at bay. The ingenious ones can still get my safe contents, and I have no doubts they can get both of yours. So the next thing, “if” you come home and the contents are gone, what are you going to do? Ignore law enforcement or help them. The more security measures increase the more challenge it imposes on one determined to break through them. Remember National Guard Armories have items missing, and a tank rumbling down a Ca. freeway. Even spent nuclear fuel cells have gone amiss.

  13. Boycott, those of us who find ourselves living in the NYS have to make a Choise. Either put up with the bullshit or disarm. I have already moved some of my collection to my retirement home in a much more firearm friendly state. Also note that most of rest of New York is rural and, for that matter, Red. It’s just that the City is the tail that wags the dog. There are enough good things here to warrant putting up with at least some of the nonsense and, you know, this is still America! The New York State Rifle and Pistol Association, along with the NRA, is still fighting, challenging the more onerous portions of the law and will probably win. I’m not ready to go to the barricades just yet.

    1. Redleg: Respect your decision about the barricades, and how you handle the situation with your tyrannical government(s). These battles are initially best confronted through the ballot box, courts, and economics. Pro 2A organizations need to come to a meeting of the minds, and determine how to pool their resources for the best counterattacks on these anti 2A states. These fragmented thrusts are getting results, but I think a joining of forces is better.

  14. Boycott, CCW permits in NYS are issued county by county and requirements and restrictions may vary between them. In general, once a permit is issued no further vetting is required. However, each handgun purchased or acquired must be listed on your permit so for each transaction, a pistol permit modification form must be submitted. For a regular purchase, the gunshop handles this. For transfers between permit holders, they both have to fill out the form and give it to the.County Clerks office. No permit is required for rifles and shotguns. Military style “assault rifles” are covered by the New NYS SAFE act. Google it for restrictions. Generally, any semi-automatic rifle with a removable magazine and one or more “military” features are verboten. The key feature is the removable magazine. Semi-auto rifles with fixed magazines, like Garands and SKS rifles are not restricted.

    1. Redleg: In these transfers or sells are unique identifications of the firearms required? E.G., make, model, serial #, and caliber. If it is required does the law refer to this as registration, or is some other term used?

    2. boycott: I suspect these unique ID requirements of make, model, serial numbers and caliber, also applied to the NRA sanctioned Gun Owner’s Insurance (a.e. Registration) as well. Go figure.

    3. Z: Insurance business lives on statistical data. Life insurance lives by the mortality tables, and a simple physical. I wonder how companies compile data for insuring guns? Not up on this. I’m with Redleg on this, a big, heavy, fireproof safe, anchored in a seismic slab of concrete. Glad to see some civility has returned.

    4. “What a deep voice you have!” (“The better to greet you with”), “Goodness, what big eyes you have!” (“The better to see you with”), “And I have all my little serial numbers documented for you! Would you like a little honey with that?” “And what big hands you have!” (“The better to hug/grab your guns with”), and lastly, “What a big mouth you have” (“The better to eat you with!”), at which point the big bad wolf jumps down from his ivory tower, and devours the unarmed citizen.

    5. boycott: Can’t you get it through that Lead Lined Skull of Yours, IT IS REGISTRATION. Any transaction you make is a Registration!!!

    6. Z: This is the start of it in NY. Complete total registration has not been fully implemented, yet. Lead lining protects one from “Z” gamma rays. Start accusing the dirty dung beetles in the BPD, more entertaining.

  15. Oh, Fair. There is no limit on the number of handguns you may posess in my county, but if it’s more than five you have to have a safe to keep them in, a picture of which is filed with the County.

  16. As a NYS pistol permit holder , I suggest the following work around to the NYS law. I have placed all the handguns listed on my permit on my daughter’s permit as well. This is a perfectly legal way of avoiding confiscation or forced sale upon my demise.

    1. Redleg: It is a shame you have to jump through the hoops, for tyrannical NY politicians’ unconstitutional laws. Sad what NY has become today, from the glorious beginning of this great nation. I regret my handle still emphasis a boycott for NY and other anti 2A states. I discriminate against anti 2A states, as much as possible, and encourage others to do the same. Sad we are on opposite sides, because of our state residency, and not bound by a common Constitution of this great nation.

    2. Don’t know about other states. Most states don’t have the problem. Might be worth looking into for NJ and/or CT residents

    3. Lots of questions on the permit issue. Do you have to go through a permitting process for each and every weapon placed on daughter’s permit? Is there a limit on the number of weapons for one permit? Is a separate permit required for each weapon? Does this apply to long guns? How much did this process cost – a fee for each weapon? How long did it take to place all your handguns on your daughter’s permit? Is there a lengthy waiting period to get a permit? What did you do about your long guns? Wow, I think I just named several reasons to stay out of New York!

    4. In NY State (except NYC) once a person has gon through the application process, any new handgun requires that the licensee fill out a transfer form which is submitted to The County which then updates the permit. Same procedure for selling a hand gun. For a normal purchase, the gunshop would handle this for you. In the case of a transfer between permit holders, both the transferer and the transferee need to have their permits updated so they both fill out transfer forms. It’s not really as bad as it sounds. Long guns, rifles and shoguns (except for the dreaded “black rifles”‘ about which more later) do not require a permit and transfers between family members require no paperwork.
      The new “SAFE Act” which went into effect this year would probably add some complication to this as now all sales, both commercial and private require a NICS check which any FFL dealer is required to perform for you. The charge is $25. “Assault Rifles”, that is semi-automatic rifles with removable magazines and one other “military” feature are now verboten. Such rifles that were possessed prior to April 15, 2014 had to be either removed from the state, modified to bring it into compliance or registered with the state. Such registry cannot be transferred as is the case with handguns.
      Besides being a real pain in the as and demonstrate le bullshit. It doesn’t even make internal sense. Simply installing a mod kit that eliminates the separate pistol grip turns a scary “assault rifle” into a tame sporting rifle. Oh, and just a note. Garands, M1 carbines (sans bayonette lug) and SKS rifles are 100% kosher in NYS.

  17. @ Mc Ruger.

    I think your typical NRA member might have “Opposing Viewpoints” on the subject. Why don’t we leave it up to them to decide their future, instead of somebody deciding for them. That’s why NRA members have VOTE, don’t they. Unless your saying they really DON’T…

    1. Not real sure what you mean but yes as members we a voice. In my experience NRA and GOA are both very open to member comments and suggestions. All I asked was if you were referring to NRA insurance.

  18. Mc Ruger: Sound’s almost, but not quite like the vaguely worded nonsensical rhetorical rhetoric. The Klu Klux Klan, used in their recruitment drives!

    1. If you are referring to ROY perhaps you’re right. You know of course that the 3K was a democrat organization.

    2. Here ya go Z…………

      Founded in 1866, the Ku Klux Klan (KKK) extended into almost every southern state by 1870 and became a vehicle for white southern resistance to the Republican Party’s Reconstruction-era policies aimed at establishing political and economic equality for blacks. Its members waged an underground campaign of intimidation and violence directed at white and black Republican leaders. Though Congress passed legislation designed to curb Klan terrorism, the organization saw its primary goal–the reestablishment of white supremacy–fulfilled through Democratic victories in state legislatures across the South in the 1870s.

    3. Mc Ruger: Why are you going back 150-years, everything was different 150-years ago. Can’t you find anything more recent, like 5-or 10-years ago? While the Democrats have PROGRESSED in their thinking. The Republicans have DIGRESSED in their thinking. How strange, the Reversal of Fortunes.

    4. Typical of the left claim, the good and pass the bad to someone else. As in “it is all Bushes fault”. As I said the KKK was a democrat organization. I suppose you claim Lincoln as a democrat to right.
      I will agree with one thing you said. The democrats have progressed to embrace socialism and in another few years they will change what they’re called again as the move to embrace communism.
      Oh I’m sorry are you a progressive…. LMAO

    5. McRuger: I didn’t know you were a “Communist”. Didn’t Mao Zedong (Mai Tse-Tung) say, that “Political power grow out of the barrel of a gun”. Everytime you say something, you give us a better view of your true beliefs.

    6. Oh Z now you’ve gone and done it.. Now everyone knows your an idiot. I’m sure you would know what some Communist said long before I would. It must be on your “Words for a Moron to Live By” poster on your basement room wall..
      Have a very special day and don’t forget your meds.

  19. Unless you can stay on track please keep the comments to yourself.

    Those of you speaking about Jesus and assault weapons need to find another news story. This one is about the Buffalo police – REMEMBER

    1. Phil: I believe the content of this article is about more than Buffalo. From the article I read in relevant part, “. . . . something that gun-rights advocates have contended for years: “Gun registration leads to confiscation.”

      I believe the article is about “gun control” and more than just Buffalo. Lighten up Phil. Broaden your horizons. Post something about Buffalo. Anything new happening?

    2. @ fair.

      Back in November 12, 2014, The Shooter’s Log has a article called: Can I Be Sued For Using My Gun. They were asking Gun Owner’s to get Gun Owner’s Protection for their guns, and all it’s to cost you $27.00/month. And you had the REGISTER your GUN. And this was supported by the NRA, too. An organization VOWING, against Gun Registration. Apparently, there “GOOD” Gun Registration and “BAD” Gun Registration. The only difference between “GOOD” and “BAD”, is “BAD” doesn’t charge you anything. So ‘fair’ tell me your logic again, please…

    3. Fine, I didn’t say it wasn’t a registry I was just asking if that is what you were referring to. NRA offers limited insurance now without specific disclosure. Of course if you get the insurance someone still has your name somewhere as a gun owner. Hmmmmm interesting,

    4. @ Mc Ruger.

      I wonder just how much of that $27.00/month is actually, another way of Political Fund Raising. Without hitting-up the Rank-In-File, for EXTRA DUES…

    5. Secundius: Not sure exactly what you mean. I don’t have gun insurance. Don’t agree with registration of any kind – good or bad. I was only agreeing with the statement in the article, “CCRKBA Chairman Alan Gottlieb said the report on Fox News affirmed something that gun-rights advocates have contended for years: ‘Gun registration leads to confiscation.'”

    6. Agreed FAIR. That is exactly why I contend that we cannot give them an inch on new controls. If we give an inch to the control freaks they will take a mile. Progressives think we are not being cooperative in giving the additional “common sense” controls but we know the tactics and we know the goals.

    7. Mc Ruger: Right on, too much has been lost, and gun right advocates need to not give another inch, as you have stated, and start taking back some lost ground. 1959 first rifle was a mail order M98 Mauser for $10. After sporterized and scoped I could outshoot or stay with rifles costing many times my investment. Still have that sweetie and shoots right on. My dead relatives of WWII allowed me to have a little piece of the spoils from that war. My generation of libs has removed that right, and they need to be pushed back to the base meaning of the 2A.

    8. The McRuger guy, Mr Bible study, Mr NRA and Mr KKK are all off track and wasting space in my in-box. I enjoyed this blog for the first 80 comments. Now it sounds like a group of pre-teen girls cackling.

      The idiot talking about the NRA insurance and “registration” for that insurance is likewise full of it. The only thing you share with the insurance company is “if” you have a firearm exceeding $2500 including accessories. The “registration” is with the insurance company, not the NRA or government.

      Sorry, but some of these people do not have a clue what they are speaking about.

    9. Gee Phil sorry to waste your time and your in-box space. People post Stupidity and I just can’t let it go.

    10. Phil: BPD is a battle in a war on the Constitution. Learn some battle lessons from BDP, they will be applicable in the war. The war is also bigger than the 2A, it is for the whole Constitution. An attack on one part is an attack on the whole. Bill of Rights is the next obstacle to a tyrannical government.

    11. Boycott: Absolutely, several people who should know better are attacking the US Constitution. Mark Levin is the most prominent who is calling for an Article V Constitutional Convention. I call these people enemies from within. I believe those calling for a Constitutional Convention are more dangerous than our foreign enemies. Patrick Henry had a few choice words for those who commandeered the Constitution Convention of 1787.

      In 1787, Henry received an invitation to participate in a convention to revise the Articles of Confederation. He refused to attend what became the Constitutional Convention, as he feared that the meeting was a plot by the powerful to construct a strong central government of which they would be the masters. He was also very critical of the fact that the convention was conducted in secret.

      When the new Constitution was sent to Virginia for ratification in 1788, Henry was one of its most outspoken critics. Henry wondered aloud why the Constitution did not include a bill of rights. Henry believed that the absence of a bill of rights was part of the attempt by the few to amass power. The new constitution was actually ratified WITHOUT the Bill of Rights. Henry’s efforts to include the Bill of Rights as amendments is the only thing that saved us from sure destruction.

      Mark Levin’s constitutional convention would be held in secret, only a few choice liberals, atheist and misfits would control the convention. Paraphrasing Levin who once said on his radio program, if we can’t find a few good men to control the convention, then we don’t deserve freedom. I say if we allow another constitution convention, that will most surely end up like the last, we don’t deserve freedom.

      “Show me that age and country where the rights and liberties of the people were placed on the sole chance of their rulers being good men without a consequent loss of liberty! I say that the loss of that dearest privilege has ever followed, with absolute certainty, every such mad attempt.” – Patrick Henry 1788

    12. Fair: Enjoyed the post, it is very good. We did have some dialogue on this subject in earlier posts. The power struggle for a large central all powerful government verses vesting most of the power in the states came to a head with Hamilton and Jefferson battling it out. This then started the two party system that we know today. Funny, Republicans wanted power to be invested in the states, but along comes the Civil War and the Republicans now have helped the Federal Government to be the central base of power. When our country was started, most participates, I would call, were statesmen. These statesmen put the well being of the country and states above politics. Today our politicians standing in their party and the party interests, are more important than standing for the country. Politicians going against the party line will be devoured by their own wolf pack. One example is Senator W. Morse going up against President LBJ over the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. The battles between the parties is fighting over controlling great wealth. The “LOVE” of money is the root of all evil. These politicians will sell anyone down the river to be higher up in the roost, or peck order. My father-in-law loved saying about such groupings, “Birds of a feather, flock together.”
      A master carpenter, with a hammer in his hand, stands and looks on vacant land and visualizes a beautiful, warm cozy house to build. A madman stands with the same hammer and visualizes it protruding from ones head. Same hammer but different mind sets on how to use it. Shift to statesman and politician.
      A statesman in applying laws and the Constitution, sees healthy, vibrant, citizens working to build their dreams and future. A politician using the same laws see subjects/slaves building a tyrannical government for him and his constituents. Same Constitution, same laws, but different visions. This today is evident in the application of the 2A. in all the various state politics, which should not be.

  20. Jim & Larry: Very good. But this BPD has to keep the future mob well nourished and ready to rob the inheritors. Dead ones on the government dole help make the live ones have double goodies. BPD then puts on the good guy act to the mush brains watching the propaganda box.


      Hmm something is wrong with it, more dung flies should swarm in. I know, maybe it is too dry. No, that’s not it, a closer look with my monocular reveals a single large greedy dung fly (LGDF) of the Z species. This LGDF is scurrying around on the dung pile (DP) chasing away all other flies. LGDF makes it clear to all the other flies that he is king of this DP. I hear a noise and look towards the source. I see a large stampeding mob of super dung beetles (SDB) bearing down on LGDF’s dung pile. At the head of this mob is a strange duo, one SDB riding another, the rider has a brand showing BROWN, the ridden one’s brand is Derenda. What a strange pair. Anyway, the dung war has commenced between the SDBs, and the lone LGDF. I bet he is wishing for the return of all the flies chased away. Looks like no contest. In the rush to devour the dung pile LGDF can’t escape, the extra weight of the dung prevents lift off. As the SDBs swarm over LGDF the dying thought is, “died full of it.” Now for the DP the SDBs formed it into balls and rolled them into holes at a location they called Buffalo. The evening news, showed a good guy routine, featuring the SDB branded Derenda telling the home front mob of SDBs, that a LGDF was trying to steal an inherited DP, and died in the ensuing confrontation. Conclusion: Z species LGDF devoured too many goodies, near the Buffalo mob, and chased away all his allies, and SDBs Brown and Derenda confiscated most of the DP, inherited or not. In this dung war, none of the combatants fought for the US Constitution, they only wanted to feed the bellies on dung.

    1. FAIR: Look at this as Bright Side, If Obama is a King. The you actually do have “The Divine Right to Bear, and Keep Arms”. Because only a Sovereign and God can give you Divine Rights.

    2. Where did the Second Amendment come from? From the Founding Fathers, it’s in the Constitution. But where did the whole concept come from? It came from Jesus when he said to his disciples ‘now, if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

    3. Fair: Our constitution has some similarities to the Magna Carta (implemented long before ours). These are the only two I know of that acknowledge individual rights above government dictates. Many battles were waged over the Magna Carta, and it looks like we shall be going through the same thing. Now for Christ, I am a believer in Him and the prophets on the outcome of this world, as we know it. That dialogue should be carried out on another blog. The owners of this log request posts keep us informed of whats going on in our own country, and how it is threatening to the gun rights of our citizens. If the liberals want to engage on gun rights, here is one of the places to accommodate them. We have lost many gun rights since 1960. A few posts on Shooters Log has addressed some of these loses, but seems not to have registered on many here. If one does not realize what was lost in the past, how does one know what to do in the present?

    4. Boycott: I usually don’t get into religious issues, but I couldn’t resist the story about Jesus telling his disciples to sell their coat and buy an assault weapon. General Boykin recently had some interesting comments about that. The gun grabbers are upset with General Boykin.

    5. Fair: Understand. Looks like McRuger is having a good one, and this log is attracting some mush minded liberals. The commie liberals want your guns, makes it easier for them come slaughter time. Surprises can always happen at the slaughter house.

    1. Hank: Start turning this stampeding herd to run over Nazi dogs, not drink at the same watering hole with them.

  21. Imagine that……… I just tried to link to the NY Gov’t. site which is listed at the end of the above article. Lo and behold, it no longer exists. They took a lesson from our current POTUS, if you can’t find it, you can’t question it! Just like all of his records. No one can deny nor confirm that he went to college on a “foreign student status” on our dime, among all of the other allegations against him.

    1. Hey D: Thanks for the heads up that the NY State Police FAQ page about firearms regulations is no longer visible at the link I provided in the story. I’ve contacted the agency’s press office to inquire if it’s just been moved or taken down. So far, no response, as is expected this close to Thanksgiving. I’m also searching for a Google cache of the page, and if I find it, I’ll post that as an addendum to the story. I’ve also noted in the story itself that the page is no longer available. Sorry for the trouble. — Woody.

  22. Boycott as many NY produced or retailed products as possible. Let them start producing brown shirts, hobnailed boots, back leather coats to dress the new order of Waffen SS; the growing political army of Buffalo. I thought skin heads resided somewhere else, but they have taken on a new look in NY. Note, also the police chief is the mayor’s general of the SS, and to stay on the payroll he pleases his despotic leader. Anyone swallowing that line is ready to join up and goose step to their cadence.

  23. No, Max. I’m afraid not. At some point the people of New York will either rise up and squash tyranny or they will bow down and be squashed by it.

    The NRA can only do so much.

    1. Max

      Why, if a City Proposition of this Magnitude, got past the Ever Vigilant and Watchful Eye’s of the NRA. Don’t you think the NRA, should be held accountable too?

  24. Per Commissioner Derenda, “at times they lay out there and the family is not aware of them and they end up just out on the street.” My question is, “per your stats, sir, just how often does this actually happen with licensed owners?” And the stand-by answer of “Once is one time too many” doesn’t count.

  25. Some comments are saying, “Put your firearms in a trust and have a will that transfers them to a legit family member. . . . . . ”

    Beware of Trusts. Your guns will be gone when time to transfer them to a family member. Dishonest people and thieves control “trusts.” Put your firearms in trust at your own peril. Your guns will be sold to pay for trust fees and a host of other trust administrative expenses.

    This is true of all kinds of trust – not just guns.

    1. If you have a useless attorney, I think you could be right, but I believe with the strength of a TRUST, your Protection is Great. One small , relatively unknown fact is a Trust has a life of 25 years after the death of the Final/Last Trustee passes (I believe this can be found in any Trust Creation Book). There maybe even some powers in the trust known as “”A Generation Skipping Trust”…. Get yourself a good attorney, one that specializes in ESTATES…. Not divorce, a ambulance chasing, or Simple Corp Law..

    1. I am not a member of the NRA…. Maybe someone who is, could e-mail them and post the answer here….

    2. Is your agenda to get people to stop supporting the NRA. Are there other gun groups you prefer or are you just trying to muck up the works in general. Hell yes there trying to sell magazines and memberships and what you call propaganda we would call a voice for gun owners. I belong to 3 pro-gun organizations and happy to support them. Sounds to me like a progressive tactic to reduce NRA support. Do you even own a gun?

  26. Firearms are private property and I don’t mean the property of the state. NY has no business even contacting the relatives of a deceased permit holder. The folks living in New York are fools to allow the likes of Bloomberg and hundreds of other firearm haters to remain in power.

    Confiscation is not and never has been an effective tool to reduce violence, and New Yorkers should question the motives of their police state. You folks deserve exactly whom you vote for.

    1. Put your firearms in a trust and have a will that transfers them to a legit family member as part of the estate. Make the little Hitlers break law after law!!! The hate to show true colors.

      Its very clear to some of us who these people are but not everyone. Fight back any way you can and enlist the NRA to carry the ball!

    1. Morris – I agree with you on the same sex stuff. Unfortunately the US Supreme Court retards in black place more and more states onto the list of states that must accept this same sex garbage.

      That is what happens when nine retards, usurp the constitution, write themselves laws that protect their own turf, give themselves absolute immunity and refer to themselves at “King.”

      In their own words, “The King can do no wrong!”

  27. So many questions come to mind after reading this article. First, what proof is there that any of these guns are ending up on the street. Is there data that supports this claim? Secondly, what happens to the confiscated guns after the maximum two year holding period. Are the guns sold, and if so where does the money go? If the answer to that question is the funds are applied to the police department’s budget something is desperately wrong with this legislation. I’m just thankful I don’t live in Buffalo. I can only imaging the ugliness that would occur if officers arrived at my doorstep to collect firearms that were willed to me after the death of a loved one.

  28. The 2 Amendment trumps Buffalo police from getting the guns. and So what that the guns were left to family members, as long as they are not felons, and that’s bull about guns being left out!!!!! If this is not stopped we will see a lot more problems with Police VS. civilian shootings during house invasions by the police. Just because New York passes some unlawful laws on gun control does not give them the right to come into my home and take my guns. My whole family knows about gun safety and if I die they are not going to just leave out my guns for all to take. This is crazy the Buffalo Police department should all be arrested for braking and interring, also strong arm robbery. etc.

  29. Nothing g new here. The NY state police and all sub agencies of police in this state have been and are operating on Nazi Gestapo policy/procedures developed by Hitler. They have now begun the Phase of Confiscation of your guns left to you by a deceased family member, what a joke — next they will come for anything they want and you can not stop them–just like WWII you all talk about, now you will have to do the same again since we can’t learn from our own mistake–roll over them and bury them. You can forget the following as states, they are Neo Nazi Territories to be avoided at all costs: new york state, new york city, new jersey, connecticut, massachusetts,

    1. Paul: For sure. Every available means needs to be used to expose these Nazi party hoodlums building the SS political army, to surpress the Constitutional rights of the citizen. Support the Constitution, not the swastika flag rising over these liberal states; be sure to include Ca.

    1. Incredible, just beyond the comprehension. The government will never get my guns but they can have my bullets (one at at time).
      Heck with New Jersey Patrick, you boys come on down to Texas! You’ll be welcome here!

  30. I don’t understand the difference between a gun and an automobile in this case.
    Both can be deadly.
    Both need to be registered in order to be used.
    So if you use the logic behind this illegal police action, why can’t they apply the same reasoning to confiscate an automobile owned by someone who died?
    I think anyone who has had a piece of property stolen by a police force, that is pretty clearly abusing it’s powers, should be able to sue that police department for theft.
    Just because they are the Police, does not put them above the law.
    Theft is theft, no matter who you are…the law must be applied equally.
    Take away a registered gun, but leave a registered vehicle behind, is applying the law in a wrongful, and unequal, manner.
    I love to say it…they are violating the Second Amendment to the Constitution to deny the ownership of a firearm that belongs to the estate of any deceased person.
    There is no excuse.
    Certainly there must be a lawyer type out there who can see the illegality in the actions of the Buffalo Police Department.
    It’s time you stepped up and forced the department to justify their actions in a court of law.

  31. This problem is easy to get around. Since it is not against the law to sell your guns in a private sale, just say that the deceased sold their firearms years before their death and you have no idea where they went or where they are today. Since the family did not own the gun, what can the cops do if you don`t “have” them… Wink, wink. they weren`t their guns to worry about, they were the deceased possessions and responsibility.

  32. IT’S just not right !!!!!!!!!!! And does this Law apply to cop’s when they die ? I do not care if it is a long gun or a handgun it is PERSONAL PROPERTY and go to an heir of the Deceased choose… long as they are not a Felon. Why is NYS Preying on the honest Permit Holders ! I believe (An Ol’ Kentucky Curmudqeon ) has it right!!

  33. IT’S just not right !!!!!!!!!!! And does this Law apply to cop’s when they die ? I do not care if it is a long gun or a handgun it is PERSONAL PROPERTY and go to an heir of the Deceased choose… long as they are not a Felon. Why is NYS Preying on the honest Permi5t Holders ! I believe (An Ol’ Kentucky Curmudqeon ) has it right!!

  34. Ahh Punisher, Did you even READ the article? The Buffalo cops are not even giving it a chance to go into probate, And i hate it that you didn’t keep your Dad’s guns personally I would have NEVER given up mine’s. Just sayin , Also Buffalo is NOT NYC it’s clear across the state.
    And you wonder why people diss California ?
    Which by the way is probably in a tie with NY as the worst states in America, So sit back maybe get a map or READ the original article.wildbill

  35. That’s illegal search and siezure and therefor is unconstutional. If you elect lamebrain libtards into office and they hire the same foe a police force that have no sense of Rule of law you will lose your rights as citizens. firearmes are property of the estate of the deceased and become property of the estate and members of the estate. no one has a legal jurisdiction over it but the survivors of the decedant, unless sumarily forfietted by said members of the estate. However, if you Idiots let your leaders pass laws like this.. well, you deserve whatever else they wanna shove up your ass…

  36. Buffalo says you have 15 days to transfer but 5 days after when you bury your beloved, “WITH THEIR FAVORITE WEAPONS IN THE CASKET WITH THEM, what is Buffalo going to do. is Buffalo going to have the legal grounds or the resorces to exume every casket they suspect might have weapons in them? I ain’t sayin’ nothin’, just sayin’.

  37. And THIS is why you DON’T ASK PERMISSION to exercise your rights as a citizen and as a human being. Do not register your guns under any circumstances. Do not “get a permit”: a free person does not ask for permission. Do not comply with unlawful authority, and do not obey un-Constitutional laws.

    1. IMPCALGI: Fully agree. This is the best approach and advice on this log. Do not obey them or show your hand to them. Most of these post on this log are just playing into the tyrants hands, and will entangle one into a every growing web of unconstitutional bureaucracies. Three cheers.

    2. IMPCALG: Fully agree. Best advice on this log to confront these tyrants wanting to commit unconstitutional acts. Most posts on this log moves one deeper into the web of unconstitutional despotic bureaucracies, and plays into the hands of the evil bureaucrats weaving their insidious web. Three cheers for this post.

  38. It appears the people of NY have been brain washed. As long they allow these cronies to act in these ways they will continue. Go to the polls and vote them out.

  39. Bingo! Settling an estate can take months and during the first few weeks family members are often filled with grief and are not focused on property. . These despicable assholes within the state legislature and within the law-enforcement royalty of New York State know this.

    They also know that, this being New York, many voters have been grubered under frankly too dumb to know what their constitutional rights are.

    So here we are.

  40. The New York statute seems unconstitutional on several levels. First it is confiscatory. Is the state going to compensate the deceased’s estate for the value of the firearms as required by the 5th and 14th Amendment? Second, how quickly can a personal representative [executor, Administrator, etc] be qualified to act for the estate. It seems to me that the firearms may be already bequeathed to someone as well. Certainly too, sale of the assets, the firearms, may take more than 15 days since the personal representative may wish to have the assets appraised. The statute as I look at it is designed to allow the state to steal the firearms so they may end up in the hands of law enforcement “collectors” of firearms. Thieves!

  41. Like I said my Friends like me DON’T PLAY DEAD and i feel sorry for anyone criminal element or the Law that tries to take their guns from them ’cause it will be a SHOWDOWN AT THE COME & GET YOU SOME CORRAL 4SURE.

  42. Just another Unconstitutional act, by the Bloomberg little Hitler want a be’s. Remember, they only want the thugs to have the guns. After all, U can tell by taking the guns away from honest people, at how much gun crimes have really dropped They have dropped like a rock haven’t they. What a bunch of CLOWNS. Criminals obey gun laws like politicians follow the oaths of office. LIES,LIES,LIES!!

  43. Most are missing the point. A government agencie is confiscating personal property legally obtained and ownership of such is protecte by the second amendment. Such actions are the result of a tyrannical government that needs to be replaced at the ballet box. The population of New York needs fight the Bloomsburg’s of the world.

  44. You raise a good point that someone else needs to have a legal permit but they should give the grieving family members more than 15 days to get one because knowing NY State it probably would take a lot longer than that to obtain one.

    1. everyone dissis California. when you die your firearms go to your familyif stated in a will. if they go into probate no one , not even the government can take them. then once probate is over you get your willed guns back.when my dad died i got all his guns. i had to sell them because i;m disabled and needed money. tookt hem to a gun store told them that they where my dads and they just filled out a form , i signed it , got my money and done. NYC need to get a reality check and if i had a family member who died . i would just sell the gun before i would let the pigs take them.

  45. Okay, the article sounds rather ambiguous.

    I read the article and then actually read the link, and the link from the New York State Police Dept does not say what the article says.

    According to the link, once a permit owner is deceased, the survivors have 15 days of disposing of the pistol OR it is held at the police dept until such a time that the heirs can legally dispose of it up to two years.

    That is how I read the article’s link.

    The issue is two fold: 1) a firearm is property and if an individual dies, the deceased’s property goes to his heirs.

    However, in NY State, you have to have a pistol permit to own a firearm. And if the deceased’s heirs have pistol permits, it is not an issue. However, if they do not, then they cannot own a pistol in the state of NY.

    You can easily get around that by making sure that at least one person of your immediate family also has a pistol permit. You can also consign the firearm with an individual that has a FFL License.

    It would help that you could clarify this since it is important to give accurate and honest information.

    From where I am sitting, you are not doing that.

    1. Umm…you do not need a Pistol Permit “to own a firearm.” You need a pistol permit “to own a handgun.” More NYS Nazi Tactics.

    2. Yes, you’re correct. Don’t expect the paranoids on here to read the source material for themselves, though. It may contradict their “govmint takin mah gunz” hysteria.

    3. The intent of this law is clear – Confiscation! Its clear the govt is going to pursue us legit gun owners to the grave. Your SOURCE document is rather clear on that.

      Bloomberg is probably having problems with his sexual identity!

      Most struggling people with that affliction will react in fear to something as manly as a gun.

      I think its possible that Bloomberg is just another fragile, easily rattled misinformed transsexual disguised as a man who thinks Hitler was a good guy for taking those mean guns away from the Jews.

      Yep the Dr. is in and right on as usual. You heard it here first Bloomberg is clearly one of those people you read about. Go figure, who would have ever imagined that? Oh dear, Oh dear.

    4. The one question I would have is…how are the different police departments going to store and account for any and all of these guns that would be turned over? It would seem that the cost to store and the liability to take them would be too much to handle.

  46. What about the value of the weapons confiscated. Are the police paying a fair market value for each weapon. If not they are taking someones inheritance.
    Also look at the care these trained police officers are taking with the weapons. Part of my inheritance were the guns from my family members that fought in wars to provide freedom, Really do you think that I will give up or let my family give up these to idiotic people that think they can use a privilege license for the illegal search and seizure of my home after I die.
    It’s time to find real politicians that want to help the citizenry and not be a dictatorship.
    I believe the professional ball teams should be finding a more conducive place for sports.
    Now we have a police officer in Cleveland OH shooting a kid with pellet gun when they knew beforehand with the 911 call that it was a pellet gun.

  47. Actually the NRA has been fighting the SAFE act pretty actively in the courts along with the Second Amendment Foundation. The problem is that you have a bunch of very leftist people and judges in that part of the country. They do not agree with the Bill of Rights nor do they think the United States should even exist its current form.

    Until the people of New York wake up and take their liberty back, there’s very little of the NRA or anyone else can do for them.

  48. Look at NY State and understand the law.

    From, the NY State Police website:

    Q – What happens to lawfully possessed firearms belonging to a licensee who has died?

    The person designated as the executor or administrator of the deceased’s estate may lawfully possess the firearms in question for a period of up to 15 days for the sole purpose of lawfully disposing of the firearms.

    If this cannot be accomplished within the 15-day time frame, the weapons must be surrendered to a law enforcement agency who would then hold the weapons for safe keeping for a period not to exceed 2 years during which time the weapons may still be disposed of.

    If the weapons are not disposed of within that time period, they will be classified as nuisance properties and destroyed.

  49. To wildbill.
    I understand your concerns regarding your friends “up north.” I’m afraid that unless the nonsensical laws are reversed, they may not be “playing dead” should they be accosted by criminal elements.

  50. Where is the NRA on this? Why are they not taking this to the Courts? They are more interested in membership and subscription then they are in fighting for our rights. Just like in Washington D.C. it took a lady to fight in court to own a weapon before the NRA got involved then tried to claim it was them fighting for us. Bullshit NRA. Put your money, your subscription and your memberships behind something and fight for it in the courts instead of running off with the mouth and steering the pot.
    Make no mistake about it they come for my guns they better bring plenty of people because a fight is what they will have, a fight that shall not be infringed. I’d rather die then hand over my Constitutional rights. I have a lot of police friends but it wont matter when it comes to my rights. There is no such thing as to fighting for your rights after the fact. Just look at New Orleans during the Hurricane.

  51. I used to live near Buffalo NY Glad that i got away from there Moved to the South 20 years ago. I could see the writing on the wall back then. The cops did whatever they wanted back then and that was before all of this commycrap that they’re pulling now. I feel sorry for my BRO’S that i left behind back there, Alot of good people in that part of the state and like me they aren’t going to lay down and play dead when it comes to their guns.

  52. Glad I saw this story was going to get a permit but all of you just changed my mind. Just goes to show the lengths the powers that be will say and do to remove your rights from you whether you are dead or alive. The generous time limit is a real eye catcher , what if he wanted his children or grandchildren to have the weapon as an inheritance. They got no say in that I see and they say I’m distrustful of government. No need to wonder why when I keep seeing examples like these. Thanks again from a good ole boy down in Mississippi

  53. How about matching gun perchases records with names of ilegal aliens and then going and picking up both the gun and the alien……. I am sure they would have agree we dont want guns in the wrong hands…..I understand Obama amnesty program allows illegal citizens the same fundamental right of all citizens…fundamental right are those inidvidual rights found in he constituion….. you know, freedon of religion, freedom of sreech, right to keep and bear asrns—as amy assault rifles as they care to buy…thanks Obama–every cop in the country will thank your for that little peace of genious….

    1. Old Gringo: Illegal aliens is a recruiting scheme to fill the ranks for the community organizers (nice name for street hoodlum gang leaders). How else are they going to fill the ranks with a bunch of “go to hell with your Constitutions and the US heritage, we make our own rules?” Looks like it is shaping up for a good one.

  54. New York has to be the biggest dirt-bag state ever. Oh yes they are SO concerned with keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. Are you kidding me? The shame of it is their generous 15 day limit for the families to surrender the gun(s). These families just lost a dear love one and all the things they have to go through for a proper funeral of their love one let alone the grieving and emotional heartache they endure. NY, you ought to be ashamed of yourself but then again, we all know NY is a heartless, soulless piece of garbage who don’t care about their citizens only their mob/mafia elites and draconian policies. NY SAFE ACT – A prime example of mob/mafia legislation pushed through in the dead-of-night. Former Mayor Bloomberg – A blue ribbon excuse of an arrogant, egotistical hypocrite who wants to tell everyone what they can and cannot eat and how to live, can’t protect themselves by having more than a certain magazine capacity for those who carry guns, yet this pompous elitist has an army of body-guards because he thinks his billions of net-worth makes him more worthy of life than you and me. NY – the most arrogant and corrupt state in the US. Anyone reading this post, especially those of NY know with these comments there is nothing inappropriate, nothing profane and nothing harassing or abusive when it is 100% truthful. People of NY we all feel for you having to endure and live in such an evil, despicable environment created by those of low moral character.

  55. Did I hear the Police commissioners remarks correctly? The family of the deceased doesn’t know the deceased owned the guns, they were just lying here and there. Now that the person owning them has died, these weapons just get up and make themselves available to all the wrong people. That is what it sounded like to me. The guns just magically appear in the wrong hands.

    Bet the idiot has absolutely no proof of that.

    1. Well, yeah, since we all know that guns magically shoot themselves of their own volition, it all fits together.

    1. just look up recipricosity . Atf has it on their website, I think, It will tell you where your permit is honored.

  56. @ Hank Alvarez.

    Sir, I live in Virginia, about as Conservative, as any Conservative State can get. I,m also a Disabled Vet, and the Free Legal Aid Services by Phone and/or Website was there when I really needed them. It only cost you a Phone Call or a Website Visit. And Good Luck to you sir…

    1. @ RG.

      How free is Free. I live just outside WDC. Nobody has pounded on my apartment door lately demand to have my guns. I can go to any store I want, any Restaurant I want, any Doctor I want and any Hospital I want. And, I can’t remember the last time that I had to show Documentation of Identity, to go from one state to another.

      I don’t know what state you live in, but please tell me. So I can stay away from it…

  57. Watch out for “trusts” of any kind. My best friend’s father left a six figure bank savings to his children. The money was in a “trust” at the local bank in town. The trust was controlled by the father’s well known and respected banker friend. At the time father believed he could trust his banker friend, and father was not disappointed.

    All went well UNTIL the bank sold out to a financial company that was controlled by lawyers. Very soon after, the trust funds started disappearing, and it was done completely legal – by the lawyers. Can’t trust lawyers when money is involved!!

    I cannot recommend a trust of any kind.

  58. Secundius: I live in the gun hostile state of Californika and they’ve gone stark raving bat feces crazy out here. The way things are going I wouldn’t be surprised if the cops came for my guns before my corpse was cold. In that case they might have to take them out of my wife’s cold dead hands. Enough is enough. We’re going to see an attorney to stipulate the disposition of our firearms after our deaths. It’s community property but they’re individually registered so it should be covered by the conditions set fourth in our will but I just want to make sure.

  59. The cops and the gun grabbers can make all the BS excuses they want to rationalize their actions but we don’t always know when we’re going to die. I guess we’ll have to get our affairs in order well in advance to insure that our guns go to who we want.

    My wife and I have a ‘living trust’ I wonder if our firearms should be specifically included because she has hers and I have mine. The way things are going, if God forbid she went first, they would be taking hers out of my cold dead hands.

    Any lawyers out there know how we could protect our property in the event of our unexpected demise? Right now our will give the survivor everything.

    1. @ Hank Alvarez.

      I don’t no what state you live, but every state has them. For Free Legal Questions and Counseling. Try either, (they do estate counseling) or in your state. Just look it up on Google…

  60. As I recall, “intergenerational transfers” (as in a bequest or gift from parent to a child of lawful age and not otherwise in a prohibited category) are exempt from rules requiring an FFL to act as an intermediary between the parties. I’m not sure if this is a Federal rule or is left to the discretion of state lawmakers, but I believe it applies in CA. As a practical matter, I suggest such transfers be formalized in a trust or named as a specific bequest in the giver’s will. Consult your attorney on this. It is particularly important if a firearms collection is involved, or a particular gun is unusually valuable or is possessed by virtue of a special license, such as an FFL holder bequeathing a suppressed or full auto weapon. Many spouses and heirs are not interested in the deceased firearms, but they will need “good title” to sell them. I believe the NRA has a program facilitating donation of firearms in such circumstances.

  61. Mac, It would be valuable if one of us was a lawyer who could comment on the trust/gun issue. I don’t know if the Buffalo, NY law applies only to Buffalo, or if such a law might exist in California. In any case, it looks like a new can of worms that deserves exploration.

  62. I was fried in the last election when I believe they passed a piss poor law here in California saying that if some one complained to the cops that ‘they thought’ you were unstable the cops could confiscate your firearms. Then up to you to prove that you’re not. I’ve got a big picture of you getting then back, NOT. I can just see some pissed off ex-wife lying her ass off to the cops to put a hurtin’ on her ex.

  63. In doing some quick reading for my state. It appears that creating a “Gun Trust” is all the rage. My understanding is that the Trust owns the gun and the present owner (me in this case) is named as the principal trustee. The trust then names a beneficiary to take control of the Trusts guns in the event of the demise of the principal trustee (which would be one of my kids). The beneficiary must legally be able to own a gun. WHAT?
    One site says it depends on whether you have title1 firearms or title II firearms. I don’t know what happened to being able to hand down treasured guns to your kids but it appears that it is no longer a simple thing and is dependent on your state as well as the National Firearms Act.
    It is certainly worthy of further investigation unless you don’t care if the county/city takes your guns upon your demise and melts them down to make new Toyotas. ONE OF OUR WONDERFUL GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION SHOULD BE ALL OVER THIS.

  64. “Pistol Permits FAQs
    Q – What happens to lawfully possessed firearms belonging to a licensee who has died?

    “The person designated as the executor or administrator of the deceased’s estate may lawfully possess the firearms in question for a period of up to 15 days for the sole purpose of lawfully disposing of the firearms.

    “If this cannot be accomplished within the 15-day time frame, the weapons must be surrendered to a law enforcement agency who would then hold the weapons for safe keeping for a period not to exceed 2 years during which time the weapons may still be disposed of.

    If the weapons are not disposed of within that time period, they will be classified as nuisance properties and destroyed.”

    THX, to what conclusions are you referring? The FAQ makes no distinction between anyone who dies of natural causes, commits suicide, is murdered, dies of disease, etc., and it makes no difference as to the amount of firearms the owner possessed.

    Also, it seems to me that if the executor may “lawfully possess” the firearms for a period of 15 days after the owner dies, the executor should be able to lawfully transfer ownership of the firearms before the 15 day period runs out. Trying to transfer ownership of 840 guns might be a stretch of the imagination, but unless the law in NY prohibits such a transaction, it seems reasonable that any confiscation would be illegal.

    And what if the decedent had left his firearms to various family members in his trust or will? Wouldn’t the new owners be immune from confiscation?

    1. In states where a permit is required to own or carry a handgun the weapon must be registered and licensed by the person receiving the weapon from the estate of the deceased. If not, then the police will confiscate the weapon until a permit is obtained and the gun is registered. The only exception to this is in New York concerning assault rifles. They may not be handed down and must be either sold through a dealer to an out of state buyer where possession in his state is legal or turned over to a police officer. I haven’t heard of any challenges to this portion of the so called NY Safe Act(which it isn’t) as yet but this seems to me that the state in this case is definitely seizing your property upon death in spite of your right to bequeath it to a family member or friend. In the few states where no gun permits are required to buy, own and carry a gun, this problem doesn’t exist unless the person receiving the guns are ineligible to do so by virtue of mental capacity of criminal record. This was indeed a big victory for the gun grabbers and will take many years to overturn if ever. So far I’m only aware of this problem existing in New York. If another state has a similar law I’m not aware of it. I made sure my wife got her carry permit and all my handguns are listed on hers as well as mine. I am also encouraging my son and any of my daughter who wish to inherit any of them to get licenses as well so that they can be listed on theirs too. Then the communist state of NY can go pound salt when I check out.

  65. “Pistol Permits FAQs
    Q – What happens to lawfully possessed firearms belonging to a licensee who has died?

    “The person designated as the executor or administrator of the deceased’s estate may lawfully possess the firearms in question for a period of up to 15 days for the sole purpose of lawfully disposing of the firearms.

    “If this cannot be accomplished within the 15-day time frame, the weapons must be surrendered to a law enforcement agency who would then hold the weapons for safe keeping for a period not to exceed 2 years during which time the weapons may still be disposed of.

    If the weapons are not disposed of within that time period, they will be classified as nuisance properties and destroyed.”

    THX, to what conclusions are you referring? The FAQ makes no distinction between anyone who dies of natural causes, commits suicide, is murdered, etc., and it makes no difference as to the amount of firearms the owner possessed.

    Also, it seems to me that if the executor may “lawfully possess” the firearms for a period of 15 days after the owner dies, the executor should be able to lawfully transfer ownership of the firearms before the 15 day period runs out. Trying to transfer ownership of 840 guns might be a stretch of the imagination, but unless the law in NY prevents such a transaction, it seems reasonable that any confiscation would be illegal.

    And what if the decedent had left his firearms to various family members in his trust or will? Wouldn’t the new family owners be immune from confiscation?

  66. Maybe you guy might actually want to read the Buffalo Police Report before jump to conclusions. The guy was already dead, probably died of natural causes. Deceased victim had over 840-guns in his house, and after 15-days if gun are not claim by family members. Under state law, police are required to take guns into possession.

    1. THX-1138: Please put on the Constitutional thinking cap. These puppet instituted laws are unconstitutional, and any government agency enforcing them violate the Constitution. Anyone and/or agency head carrying out this action should be on trial for treason, not the citizen. The Constitution limits governmental powers, and protects the citizen from the government. Support the Constittution, or the outcome may be very unpleasant.

    2. Please read P. Hamburger’s article “The History and Danger of Administrative Law,” Imprimis (Hillsdale College), Sept.,2014. Our existing governments (Federal, state, local) have numerous laws, regulations, ordinances on the books that are unconstitutional. Because judges, lawyers, politicians build a spider web of legal entanglement does not mean it is constitutional. The legal system thrives on admin law. The Constitution is the benchmark, the starting point, and the guideposts along the road, to limit government powers against the citizen. Lord Acton’s quote recognizes this, “The great novelty of the American Constitution was that it imposed checks on the representatives of the people.”

  67. Hitler started with the guns of Jews, that was his first move, 2nd was their personal property and 3rd was a train ride to the extermination camps. Oh, I forgot numbers 4 an 5. He shaved their heads, and sold their hair and last but not least the gold from their teeth. Well, I guest we might need to discuss #6. Their ashes was used for fertilizer and about 6 months before the Nazi’s turned tail and run they had developed a hog food out of the ashes.

    1. Bullet: The lowly German servant was relegated to owning old shotguns and single shots. Seems Hilter and Rohm was able to find a large cache of weapons to arm the beer hall brawlers and street hoodlums, known as brown shirts or SA (looks like BPD is taking some lessons from them). From there it was all downhill for human rights for the lowly German servant, and the Jew. Pictures show this mob running around with fully autos and the M98 Mauser. Our southern border drug hoodlums have the fully autos, RPG, even some machine guns. Seems the underworld can come up with better weapons than us, they make their own gun rights rules, and the hell with the US Constitution.

  68. It never ceases to amaze me how much bureaucrats are willing to subvert the constitution for a little extra power or change in their pockets. Obviously here that the Buff fuzz don’t really give a rodents rear end about stomping all over the Bill of rights and rules of law concerning unlawful seizure! Must make them feel really powerful stealing property from people when they are grieving for lost ones. I hope they all go to hell!

  69. the link sends u to a Pistol Permits FAQ page, on which the Empire Gestapo admits that they are accomplices, along with judges who have made decisions in court cases, and pistol permit issuance decision-makers, to the crime of violating the 2d Amendment rights of every peasant in the Empire, in that the issuing authorities have the discretion to grant or deny a permit application based on any criteria they deem pertinent … so if that judge or local town police chief or such went to work in a bad mood becuz his/her spouse wasn’t in the amorous and receptive mood they wished for when they made intimate advances the previous night, …… when the very REQUIREMENT TO APPLY FOR THE PERMIT IN THE FIRST PLACE, LET ALONE IT NOT BEING VAILD IN NYC BUT ONLY IN EVERY OTHER COUNTY, IS THE SORT OF “INFRINGEMENT” SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITED BY THE 2A !!!!!! (let alone every other law at every level in every jurisdiction since the Bill of Rights was signed) …. so if the police refuse to do their jobs and arrest the folks who propose and sign these bills into law for violating their oaths of office, then we the people need to make citizen felony arrests on each legislator, judge, and LEO with all possible force and deliver their swift sentence for treason, which in a state of war, which this nation will be in forever, is death !!!! If the judge or whomever is deceased, then use the Biblical method of the offspring paying for the sins of the parent/grandparent/etc. ! Oh, and Moderators, this is me expressing a 1A belief, so anything you do to this post other than posting it unedited will be considered an act of cooperation and sympathy with the aforementioned traitors, and subject you to the same penalty !

    1. Lon – I couldn’t have said it any better. You have unveiled the perversion of these tyrants. Our Constitution does not permit tyrants. It speaks of replacing or removing them from office. They use their perverted laws to create a fear amongst the people. Maybe it’s time they had a little fear.

  70. The problem of course is that leftists believe that everything belongs to the government. They do not believe in personal property or real property ownership by individuals.

    It may be that your good friends Smith & Wesson will need to be introduced to them to convince these tyrants that they are wrong.

  71. Here’s an idea: why not cross reference the obituaries with the welfare and voting rolls and remove the deceased from both.

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