The NSA is monitoring phone calls and data, the Internet is an open book to the government and recently we learned that Uncle Sam has been tracking our vehicles. According to the Wall Street Journal, “The Justice Department has been building a national database to track in real time the movement of vehicles around the U.S., a secret domestic intelligence-gathering program that scans and stores hundreds of millions of records about motorists.” We are continually assured this is for own safety; the government is not opposed to the citizens’ rights, it is only looking to protect us with the data.
At the same time, we are told there isn’t a governmental assault on the Second Amendment. The government is not overtly or covertly trying to suppress gun ownership or form any secret list of gun owners. However, new revelations developed over the last week or so that would make you question the government’s sincerity.
Now personally, I feel it is my duty to earn a spot on at least one government watch list. I might even be suspect of anyone else who wasn’t! However, that does not excuse the government’s behavior nor are the events of late anything to laugh about. The ACLU is not exactly a favorite organization of many, however occasionally, it does come across a gem. This is one of those gems and it should scare every law-abiding gun owner.
Recently, the ACLU received documents from a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request. It would seem the DEA was planning on, or at least contemplating, using Automatic License Plate Readers (ALPRs or LPRs) to gather intelligence about whose cars were attending gun shows. The emails obtained in the FOIA were highly redacted which makes getting the whole scoop difficult if not down right impossible, but suggests the program was well past the brainstorming stages.
“DEA Phoenix Division Office is working closely with ATF on attacking the guns going to [redacted] and the gun shows to include programs/operation with LPRs at the gun shows.”
And what would the surveillance have shown? It would not have proved I was at the gun show. There would have been no sorting of who was there for legal or illegal purposes. It would not have even shown that I was there at all. My truck has never bought or sold a gun (even if it does regularly haul them for me); so, what would be the point? My purpose for being at the show could have been as a vendor selling popcorn, parking attendant, grounds maintenance or lawful consumer.
The ACLU makes much the same point, “An automatic license plate reader cannot distinguish between people transporting illegal guns and those transporting legal guns, or no guns at all; it only documents the presence of any car driving to the event. Mere attendance at a gun show, it appeared, would have been enough to have one’s presence noted in a DEA database.” That is the danger of the wholesale collection of information without a defined, targeted purpose. The DEA would be spending our tax dollars, gaining no actionable intelligence, lumping lawful gun owners and citizens onto a list and tromping on our civil rights.
The political motivations are easy to see. For years now, lawmakers in Washington D.C. have been targeting gun shows and labeling them as “Illegal Arms Bazaars.” If, instead of rhetoric, the same lawmakers would look at the government’s own numbers they would have realized the futility of their folly. According to the Department of Justice, criminals very seldom obtain guns from gun shows. A DOJ survey of state and federal inmates showed less than 1 percent of criminals acquired a firearm from a gun show and used it to commit their crime. However, why use hard numbers and logic when you can spend tax dollars and target law-abiding gun owners?
The very fact that the DEA was involved at all is puzzling. Wouldn’t the ATF seem a more likely candidate? However, when asked, DOJ officials quickly denied any BATFE involvement in the LPR scheme. This is not much of a surprise when you look at other tidbits of news. The DOJ has become a collection point and distribution center for many agencies and departments. The Wall Street Journal explained the broad contours of DOJ LPR surveillance. It went on to detail the wide availability of the collected data, writing, “Many state and local law-enforcement agencies are accessing the database for a variety of investigations… putting a wealth of information in the hands of local officials who can track vehicles in real time on major roadways.” It further noted the national database, “allows any police agency that participates to quickly search records of many states for information about a vehicle.” This means local law enforcement could use the data or list well outside of the scope of the original interest of the data collection.
The fact the government would even propose such targeting smacks of gun registration and harkens back to the use of the IRS to target specific political groups. It not only threatens our Second Amendment rights, it also has serious implications to the First, Fourth, Fifth… Does the right to the freedom of association and the organization of peaceable assembly without the boot of governmental spying on our throats ring any bells? Many attendees to gun shows neither buy nor sell guns while attending. It is a gathering of like-minded competition shooters, self-defense enthusiasts, hunters, law enforcement, jewelry vendors, food concessions and military historians just to name a few.
This dovetails with the FDIC’s recent admission of wrongdoing in its discriminatory practices in relation to products and services connected to the firearms industry aptly named “Operation Chokepoint.” These are just a couple of the recent examples of the government’s assault on the Second Amendment that recently came to light. While it is important to support our national organizations, it is also important to stay informed and get the word out, so be sure to share this information with your friends.
Do you believe the DOJ’s proposal was politically motivated, an intentional assault on the Second Amendment, or was it something else. Share your thoughts in the comment section.
[dave]
Its Why ARE. Second word into the article and you’re already making gun owners look bad.
Took the words right out of my mouth, so to speak.
@ Mc Ruger and Pete In Alaska, and everyone else:
I do apologize for suffering you folks through this and filling your inboxes with what appears to be a petty back-and-forth dispute. However, if you folks had access to the info I have, you’d be just as disgusted by wb’s (William Bryant) attempts to pass himself off as a Vet.
Worse is that he knows that I really know the truth because I’ve fed him enough discreet personal info to overwhelming prove I do. So you may ask then, why does he persist?
Out of humiliation or cockiness he has decided to put on a show for you folks to try and save face. When he responds, he is not really talking to me anymore because he knows there is no point given what I know about him. From that point he persists merely to put on an act for all the rest of you simply because he did not like departing out of such embarrassment.
As for the sources of my information, I can assure everyone here I have broken no laws nor abused my position of authority. However, my employment has taught me skills that allow me to utilize open-source investigative tools available to all U.S. citizens; it’s just that I know how to use them well.
As for his challenge for me to show him more proof, though I easily could, I have instead chosen to exercise great restraint in revealing more info on him as I do not wish to violate any TOS rules of this site.
Otherwise I agree with you all… he is not worth it and I am done.
Should have followed Pop’s advice and not argued with an Idiot. My apologies to the open minded people on this site for feeding this troll so long. I will feed him no longer. I do feel sorry for his next target since all he can present way of evidence is liar, liar pants on fire.
Hey G-Man,
Been following this thread since it went up. I haven’t said much but it’s been fun to read.
I just wanted to say that I don’t think that WB is worth the time or energy to spar with as it’s kinda hard to have an open conversation with a closed mind of narrow view point. It’s best to leave them to their own twisted view of realiry. Better to ignor those that can only see their own inflexible view as if they arn’t there and spend ones time with those of broader view and open mind.
I know it’s fun to see what they will write next but after a time or two it’s just kinda sad.
As always, it’s a pleasure to see your comments as well as some of the other regulars here. It’s a shame that it is degraded at times by those of less flexable, open, and thoughtful minds and opinions.
Pete sends…
G-Man
I’m with Pete in Alaska G-Man. He just ain’t worth it.
Dave Dolbee, c/0 CTD.
Whose’s the THIRD PARTY, DAVE…
@ G-Man
People are going to start wondering why they can’t Log into that Site. Is there something on that Site, you don’t want anybody too see. Is it the Site You got Called out ON, G-Man. Hummm!!! That OK, I pretty much know what took place, talking to other people. I’m some of them even made COPIES…
@ DAVE DOLBEE.
I’m really not buying it DAVE, did G-man get to you too. Locking everybody out of page 48 of CTD, The Shooter’s Log: The Presidential Election Board. What he do, offer too Double his order of DP-12 Shotguns, too do G-Man a favor…
@ TwoDrinkMinimum: You are truly off your rocker when you no longer care about how psychotic you look. Seriously, can we get you some help?
Go out of town for a birthday surprise, and when I get home. The world went to @#$% in a Hand Basket. I guess I’d better star reading from page one and see what I MISSED!!!
Your joking? This site gone dead already, thing were just staring to get interesting.
Good Lord!..You folks sound like a bunch of kids, seeing who can out-spell and better each other on insults. Are you not grown men? Throw all the bragging, belittling and hurt feelings out the window. Let’s get back on topic and see if we can actually help each other on this forum. I know that’s what we are all here for, is it not?
@ G-Man
Hey G-Man, how’s your 2017 Book Publication Deal going?
@ wd.
I suspect he has Bio’s on everybody, not only from this website. But every TSL website’s.
@ wd.
I’ve had my fair share of run-in’s and threat’s from G-Man, myself. A online contributor even Called Him out on a subject he said. and he tried to Back-Pedal his way out of the subject. I’ve never heard of any 85-year old FBI agents still in service. have you. But, then again he just announced to the entire website that he’s a active Federal Agent. This sight is either going to go viral or dead. Sorry for your lose, Sir. I’ve had a few myself.
@ TwoDrinkMinimum: You haven’t an ounce of integrity when you know there isn’t a single fact to back up your claims against me. How do you not feel slimy knowing everything you just wrote is a load of crap?
I directly addressed you once in this forum a while back in order to school you on the fact that one of your comments embarrassingly displayed you did not know the difference between the American Revolution and the Civil War. Still feeling that sting with the need to get even I suppose.
But to write you’ve had your, “fair share of run-in’s and threat’s from G-Man, myself” is a bald-faced lie and you knew it when you wrote it. I challenge you to link to examples where there is anything close to a “fair share” or “threat” of any kind by me. You know you can’t, and thus you lack integrity.
You cheapen talk for everyone else that values it because we believe every word we utter really does matter. So additionally, I challenge you to provide a single link where anything I’ve ever written would give anyone the impression I am 85 years old… with the exception of you.
For years I have always been upfront in this forum about my federal service and it has yet to make this “sight [sic] go viral or dead”. It’s actually spelled “site” by-the-way.
Simply put, I am a realist and will call out anyone I know to be acting less than forthright about a topic. Case-in-point, your new found friend “wb” -aka William Bryant, who is defrauding others in this forum by mascaraing as a Vietnam Vet, yet you unwisely chose to defend him at the expense of bashing me with exaggerations and lies that are no different than his. No class.
I suppose you two deserve each other’s company. You can sit around telling each other lies all day.
Here’s one more opportunity for you to back up your lies (though I know you can’t)… I challenge you to link to any post where I’ve ever been “called out” and “tried to Back-Peddle” on anything. Only once in recent memory can I recall where someone pointed out a conflict in something I wrote and I immediately acknowledged the mistake.
It truly doesn’t surprise me you would consider such honesty a form of “Back-Peddling”; I call it good character – which obviously you can’t relate to because you lack such a thing.
Now it’s time for you to either put up or shut up… good day.
@ G-Man.
OK, 30 November 1930 (84-years). To paraphrase TX. Gov. Rick Perry, Ooops.
@TwoDrinkMinimum: Now your just being plain goofy. Nothing you wrote has any continuity in regards to the dialogue, nor does the date have any meaning in my lifetime. Are you okay?
Wow, I think you hit a nerve. Could be the fact nobody talks like him. You know the cryptic Yoda like sage advice, warnings and cautions. Too many video games perhaps. Naw this is most likely a frustrated twenty something with minor hacking skills. What’s called a Troll. The name should be Gee Haw Man. He’s a jackass. As the online quote goes: Don’t feed the trolls. If this guy is the real deal, what I said stands, call, e-mail, or better yet, have the balls to stop on by. And with that I’m off this site. Did I spell it right. By the way asshole what happened to your spell check on masquerading. Real easy to see if I’m a Vietnam vet, Just google LZbravo, or did I go to all the trouble of creating a phony web page with all those people and pictures? Anybody got any doubts, check It out. Not too hard to check out the units history for the period I was there. Ther’s my proof, where’s yours. Ain’t this interweb a wonderful thing
@ WB (William Bryant): You’ve proven nothing. Anyone can search for pictures on the Internet and proclaim them as theirs.
The person in the pictures you would have us believe to be you has a first name of Bennie (Benny). Next time when surfing the internet to assume an identity, you really should be more carefully to pick someone with the same first name as yours.
By the way, how rude of you not to answer your buddy’s posts on that site – they are still looking for the real Bryant in those pictures, last they posted.
No wonder you’re bailing, it’s no fun once you’ve been caught. Good riddance ya fraud!
You never give up do you? What’s the matter, mommy didn’t give you enough attention growing up? If anyone cares it’s easy to confirm from the site, contact the person who took the pictures and have them tell you who it is. Why didn’t you think of that one Super Spy? Maybe you’ve just spun so many lies on so many sites you couldn’t keep them straight. Oh yeah, I’ve perpetrated this scam so well I set up a phony site, pictures, and contact information of the people who took the pictures. I was going to bail but was curious to see what your next lie would be. Posting my real name is also no super feat from the shadow world you claim to be from, 12 year old gamer’s do it all the time. By the way, since you seem to enjoy sinister warnings here’s one for you, impersonating a Federal Officer is a Federal offense. And before you pop a pimple and decide to Swat me, another little tidbit for you. A recently convicted 15 year old got 25 to life for Swatting someone. Hee Haw Gee Haw-Man.Still haven’t received an e-mail or call from you. Although that wouldn’t prove anything for you, a 15 year old hacker could do the same thing. I guess your continued shouting of liar, liar pants on fire gets you enough follows to keep up your charade. If I’ve proven nothing anyone with an ounce of common sense could see you’ve proven a lot less.
@ WB (William Bryant): Oh so now you presume to tell me the law which obviously I know like the back of my hand given I’ve enforced it for the past 33 years.
A federal agent or employee, whether actual or impersonated, must have abused their authority to extract a thing of value or money before it can be considered an indictable offense.
You on the other hand, by having assumed elements of another’s identity, you have already violated a host of civil and criminal offenses. These offenses can range from copyright claims on photos that are not actually of you, up to and including defamatory statements made while acting as another individual.
Whether this individual is alive or dead, or even related to you, by extension the family or State would still retain the right to litigate such offenses.
Simply put, no monetary gain need be proven for successful prosecution. The act itself warrants penalty under the law.
If I’ve broken any laws contact the authorities to come and get me. I believe they could either take a look at me and tell I’m the one in the pictures, contact the person who took the pictures to confirm who I am, check out who I say I am, (you know kinda like the background check you apparently didn’t do) and expose you for the fraud you are. Wait, I don’t think I’ll be hearing anything from anyone except you as you reply liar, liar pants on fire. Oh yeah almost forgot. There was a Bennie, although I don’t know or remember him. Could have been different time or platoon. There was also a Donald, Gerald, and William C. Since it was you who my real name, would the last one be me? Yeah it’s pretty much me. Once again, if anyone cares to see what a fraud you really are just go to http://WWW.us7thcavalry.com/1-7vn/companyb.htm. Its called a company roster, surprised you didn’t know they had them. Aw that’s right, I faked all the pictures and web sites. One question. If you’re the real deal high ranking super spy guy protecting all of us who can’t divulge etc. etc. What does your boss think about you spending so much tim on this site trying to bash people with your bs. I would assume all the cloak and dagger units tightened up their security with all the recent leaks. You know checking computer logs and so forth. Or maybe your from one of those gun grabbing agencies who infiltrated this site. Glad I’m retired. Got plenty of time to leisurely chat with you. I was willing to ignore you till you called me a liar and a fraud. So why don’t you just put or shut up. Send the boys in blue to come get me for all these crimes, or are you to busy tracking down terrorist cells but not to busy to spin your bs here. I can’t wait to hear your next lame ass answer.
@ wb (William Bryant): I don’t know why you insist on insulting the good natured folks of this forum. I’ve already said it proves nothing to link to another site and claim it to be you. I could link to Clint Eastwood’s home page and claim that to be proof it was me… doesn’t mean it is. Attempting to divert the challenge of proof back on me is a common tactic of the unscrupulous. It’s no wonder you never made a very convincing car salesman.
WB: WOW, an E7 in Country (‘Nam), my hat’s off too you, Man!!!
In answer to your sarcasm, never said E7, was an E5. If your reply was sincere, I apologize. My best friends name is on the wall. Take your hat off to him and all the other fallen who paid the ultimate price for another war we should never have gotten into.
@ WB.
Sorry didn’t mean to be offensive. Bad eyesight, bad everything. Have trouble seeing screen…
I do apologize for the first part of my response. My best friend was KIA January 10, 1968 and after being attacked and called a fraud and a liar for having a different opinion I jumped to the wrong conclusion. It was wrong of me and I do sincerely apologize for my comments. I can relate to the bad everything. Once again hats off to the true heroes who gave all.
Keep in mind that those attending, handling or purchasing at Gun Shows in Illinois must have a valid FOID from the Illinois State Police. That means that those purchasing, handling or attending Gun Show in Illinois already have proper identification and have passed the backgound check by the Illinois State Police, to legally own and possess firearms. Targeting those at Gun Shows in Illinois is nothing more than harassment and intimidation by those in power.
It’s not the Military’s job to do Law and Order, they Fight Wars and Quash Insurrections. It’s Police job for Law and Order, and Civil Disobedience…
There are some real paranoid gun owners and that makes me feel a little uneasy. On the other hand, what the government is doing is practically making me sick to my stomach. It’s all about freedom and I see it gradually slipping away. I never thought it would happen to our country but that was just wishful thinking.
I live in DC, just down the street from the Dude and it’s the same old stuff everyday. Nobody hassling me.
I was laughing at the comment the “right honorable gentleman” made before.
Lets be realistic guys. If you have bought a gun through normal channels the federal government has you on a list. And, the chances are very, very high that the federal government monitors this site and any site like it.
If you think for one minute that the paperwork you fill out when you buy a gun at Bass Pro or Cabelas disappears after time you should maybe reconsider. People like WB can say its a wacky conspiracy theory but that just shows his ignorance.
I know you’ll find this hard to believe, but on this I totally agree. But scanning plates at gun shows? Naw. Can’t see them wasting the time and manpower when they already have a list of who bought what, when and where. See how easy it was for me to respond without insulting you or your intelligence. Makes for a calmer discussion, Oh by the way, I don’t watch FOX, CNN, or MSNBC.
WB I actually do apologize, my comments were out of line regardless of how I feel.
No need to apologize. I understand how a person feels on certain subjects and may say something they later regret. Iv’e done it myself in the heat of the moment. That’s why i try to avoid the subjects of Politics and Religion. I happen to agree with a lot of the things said here, but not all. And I try to respect others views even if I don’t agree with them. Another great thing about our Nation, an individuals right to express their feelings and opinion.
It appears to me to be and attack on all Constitutional rights. I feel less safe for the rights already taken.
I second that notion Jakob!
Its an open violation of our Right to Privacy, but people like Mark (who commented below) see’s nothing wrong with this as a LEO.
These people have done no wrong and broken no laws so why are they being investigated? The vehicles weren’t even in motion, they were parked!
Maybe the federal government should scan Mark’s personal and work phone/e-mails? I mean if he’s done nothing wrong then their shouldn’t be a problem right?
Maybe we should investigate his neighbors, and family and see if hates the Constitution?
BO, Eric Holder, Hillary Clinton,
Straw Persons!
Evidence,” Fast and Furious ”
Need I say more?
@ Bob.
The same can be said when you buy you ammunition at you local Walmart too…
This is what happens when you turn over the responsibility for your safety to the government; and a government that believes the end justifies the means is inherently dangerous to freedom. People need to reign this attitude in asap.
Exactly. The government finds it way too difficult for them to come up with the correct ways to target specific sub-groups withing the population. They find it much easier to ban or restrict everyone from a specific activity, hoping to cast a wide net to snag those they are after. It is just too bad that the rest of us are dragged into that net, as well. They probably consider all law abiding citizens as collateral damage.
Really? Unlike W’s first win this guy was elected not by an outdated Electoral College but the popular vote. If he were a white Republican there wouldn’t be a problem. Before you get your panties in a bunch, I’m an old white Vietnam vet grunt who also believes in one’s right to keep and bear arms. I also believe I should have access to the same weapons an leo or soldier have, fully automatic. What I don’t buy into are all these wacky conspiracy theories of some top secret plan to take our guns away. I also don’t judge who is a so called true american patriot, a term thrown around since 2001 for the same political gains you rail about. Turn off Fox News people.
I believe you are a Obama ass kissing scumbag demoCRAP. not a veteran.
“you are a Obama ass kissing scumbag demoCRAP”
I havent used this in a while: ROFLMMFAO
Oh I forgot your opinion trumps anyone else’s which is why you resort to name calling.
WB.
HERE’S A MUCH BETTER IDEA. Why don’t you shut of MSNBC. Stop lying about who you are and stop the race baiting. Obamas color has nothing to do with anything. Everyone of you brainwashed socialists puke the same load o garbage.
I forgot, insults, name calling and volume always make you right on any subject.. Lying about who I am? My service # was prefixed with RA.. Before the use of ssn # stands for regular army which means I enlisted. MOS 11B40, Infantry. Vietnam service was June to June 67,68, Served with B Co. 1st battalion 7th Cav, 1st Cavalry Division, was there for Tet, Ashau Valley, and part of the relief force at Khe San, was wounded and am currently drawing 70%. So I don’t really give a crap about some troll”s opinion.
@ wb: I would caution you when lying about military service. Aside from it being an uncharacteristically repugnant trait, there are also new laws in affect to prosecute such lies.
Always keep in mind, before you type falsehoods in an effort to impress, that the Internet is forever.
Really? Nothing was an effort to impress, just the truth to some troll who called me a liar. What is more repugnant is all of you self proclaimed true american patriots is calling someone a liar and attacking anyone and everyone who disagrees with you. And I do agree about new laws to prosecute lies about military service, something I have nothing to worry about. So caution someone else, I don’t need it.
@ wb: Tread lightly. I was merely revealing you for the fraud that you are and was willing to leave it at that.
Were I you, I would not persist once exposed. While you may exude an air of confidence under anonymity now, as I’ve already said, “the Internet is forever” -meaning it is quite unforgiving once traced back to uncloak your presumed layer of concealment and embarrassingly linking your lies to your actual personage.
Let me guess, this has something to do with the G-Man handle right? Ex Fed with connections in all the right places to track down and expose who I am and all my falsehoods. Sorry, you’re in for a big disappointment And don’t repeat yourself, I got the internet thing the first time. I really don’t understand why you people choose to accuse someone of being a fraud and or liar just because they disagree with your point of view. Although I haven’t figured out if you even one or just want to attack someone for no reason.
@ wb (William Bryant): No need to guess. If you were a regular on this forum you would already know I am an active Fed (not retired). I would just like people to remain responsible and keep it real. Hopefully this referral to the first post on page 1 will help introduce you to a little about what I do:
http://dev-migrationctd.pantheonsite.io/bunch-three-letter-agencies-tracking-gun-owners/comment-page-1/#comment-208324
Why didn’t you check out the rest before calling me a liar and a fraud. Let me make it a little easier for you, Bryant, William C. left service as Sgt E5, service # RA 11653236. Served RVN June 1967-1968, 1st squad 1st platoon B Company 1st battalion 7th Cavalry 1st Cavalry Division Air mobile and damn proud of it. Shot July 1968 evaced to Japan and returned to Vietnam Republic of August 1968 and served remainder of tour. 3 years active duty and honorably discharged. I’m sure you can pull my VA records as well, 70% disability 20% gunshot wound lower left leg, 20% diabetes, 30% heart failure latter 2 due to agent orange exposure. go for it. Web site LZ bravo has a couple of pictures of my handsome young self in days long gone. I totally understand what you do, lie and misuse your position to attack someone you don’t know or haven”t checked out before spewing your lying BS. Very professional of you. Want to contact me in the future, how about my E-Mail, or just call. I’m sure you got it all. Better yet how about a face to face, you should have my address also. That way you can claim I did something to make you shoot me. I’m sure our court system would let you get away with murder. Remember that internet never going away, bet you could make all this disappear if you needed to cover your ass. How may other people on this site have you spied on or lied about? I’d be willing to bet I’m not the only one. You’re right, first time responding on this site, otherwise I’d have known what a piece of work you really are. The above is clarification to all who called me a fraud and a liar. I have nothing to hide, how about you. If you still consider it bragging, how about a double dose of go screw yourself. At my age and health I’m not afraid of your veiled threats. No you’ll probably just post my e-mail address’ real address and phone number for someone else to do your dirty work. So go ahead and hide behind your layer of anonymity so your next target can’t make a complaint about your abuse of power.
Dear WB. If chairman o had been a white guy he’d have been impeached in his 1st term.
Thanks for the calm reply. May I asked just what impeachable offense the current prez committed? Just trying to get your view.
They don’t actually read the license plate #. They read the bar code on the bottom of your inspection sticker that you have on your windshield.
That must be something specific to your state. I have no barcoded stickers on my windshield or anywhere else on my car.
I watched a CHP cruiser at the local hardware store slowly cruising up and down the parking lot aisles. What happens if we all carry a roll of masking tape with us or even a magnetic sign. Every time we stop at a store cover the license plate. Don’t forget to remove the cover from the license plate before moving out to the public street. One or two of us doing it won’t make the statement but if we get everybody doing it someone should get the message. It is very important with any peaceful civil disobedience that the number of participants must be VERY significant.
DOJ Eric Holder is guilty of murder in the Fast and Furious death of our border patrol agent. Try convict and execute him before you start trying to find other criminals. If he is not tried, convicted and executed then the DOJ is a joke and we the people should refuse all laws that come from that crooked bastards office.
@ Joe.
Is the the reason why Dick Cheney and George W. don’t go oversea’s anymore. Because, now that their private citizens, they could be arrested for MURDER and WAR CRIMES. Because, after-all they no longer have Diplomatic Immunity!
HEY JOE ARE YOU A COMPLETE IDIOT OR STILL WORKING ON IT. ANOTHER WORTHLESS COMMENT FROM A BRAINWASHED SOCIALIST.
SORRY MY PREVIOUS COMMENT WAS DIRECTED TO THISSIDEUP. WANTED TO MAKE THE IDIOT GOT CREDIT.
Really people. LPRs read hundreds of lp looking for stolen vehicles. I’m sure the information is recorded, but that would take a full time person to collect all information and collidify it. Wouldn’t it be easier to contact the gun dealers to get the information on who is buying guns unless someone is making straw purchases and may get caught. LPR’s get the same information that people plunk down on the counter when they purchase a gun. Something to think about.
Hey Jeff, I seem to remember people saying that the government could not be recording telephone conversations because it would require too big a storage capability. Then along comes NSA’s disclosure that they were doing just that. Would not put any thing past ‘Big Brother’.
I am a law enforcement officer. Trolling a parking lot, recording license plates is not illegal, nor does it require a warrant. Asking a gun store owner for a list of customers requires a warrant. Further, if current state of computer technology can map out a human genome in a matter of days, then the current state of computer technology can collate license plates with background checks in a matter of minutes. Something to think about…..
Mark, I admire anyone that wears a uniform, and puts there life on the line to protect others. I’m sure U took an Oath, like I did, when I went in the military (12 years). I hope your Oath had God, and Constitution in it. Unlike wb above, it is very obvious, with millions of $ being spent by groups, and statements made by the White House, that they don’t believe in our Constitution, and our God. We are one of the only countries left, that have weapons, and this is the places where crimes have sky rocketed. And the very well armed muslims are flocking to. Buy the day will come, when the Gov. will step across the line, of the Constitution, and is already happening in some places. The day will come when the law will be glad we are armed, or wished we still were. After all, no one group has been targeted, and degraded, more than our law enforcement, by this administration. And then U through in Al-Sharpton, that owes 4.5 million $ in taxes, also belittled our officers. I have never been so mad, and sick, about something as low, as what this group is in the White House. And Jeh Johnson, over HLS, is as guilty, of all this trouble as the DOJ, & the Prez. But I promise U that the great majority of this country is on your side, and hope that U and many other officers feel the same for our country, and people. This administration does not believe in the American values. And I’m afraid that the time will come, when there will be some very difficult decisions that will have to be made, and I hope it will be on the side of the Constitution. Like U, I would die for this country. But this White House, is setting this country up, for total chaos, and destruction, from within.
I don’t know about the great majority, he was elected by this same majority. I do agree this country is currently a mess, but the GOP did contribute, Iraq, Afghanistan, no bid contracts to Cheney’s buddies. I also think a time will come when there will be blood in the streets, you can only step on everybody but the wealthy for so long. But I believe you’re wrong, about leos and the military. Done’t believe for a minute they won’t fire on you when ordered to do so.
I agree with U completely. I guess I just wanted to here something good on Marks thought on the subject. But U are pretty well dead on. I have family in the service right now, and they said that they would never go against our country, or people. And I know a couple of cops that have said the same. But most will more than likely do what U said. I know I wouldn’t. But like U, I think there will be blood shed. And it will be Obama’s army he’s put 3 times the money in, than our on military. The dept. of HLS. The one Jeh Johnson over. Another POS that doesn’t have any use for the Constitution.
You could be dead on. With today’s technology, Youtube for example, It’s hard to put much faith in the PD. Police brutality, shooting unarmed people, and the so called blue line that keeps defending the few bad apples of the bunch. Let’s get real here, what is the reaction of someone in a choke hold? I’d like to see a cop that wouldn’t resist while being choked to death. I’d say the military would probably hesitate, not so sure about any PD.
I guess this is why Obama made the statement once, that he wasn’t sure if he could trust the military for everything. Wonder what all falls under everything. To me, the worse, of the worse, is the ATF. That is some of the most cold hearted, trigger happy fools I’ve ever seen. They just want a reason to kill. Ever noticed, when they kill someone, there’s usually 50 to 70 shots fired. I have a Uncle that’s a retired GA. State Trooper, and told me if he had it to do again, he wouldn’t. And for the guns, we’ll just have to wait and see. If we can just make it 2 more years with this sick man, maybe things will get better, not with Bush, or Hellary.
I don’t know, ATF could be tied with NYPD for most shots fired. Courts don’t help by expanding police powers. Not to mention letting them off the hook for something you or I would spend the rest of our lives in jail for.
Obama was not elected by a majority. More people did not vote at all than voted for him in 2012. That’s what I call withdrawal of consent by the majority for this government.
So what you saying, I waited 10-hours in line for Nothing?
Greetings Mark,
Even though you obviously do not have any issues with these scanning’s of citizens’ license plates who have done no wrong or committed no crimes, I do for the following reasons:
1) The vehicles were PARKED and not in motion at the gun show. Hence, they weren’t moving on a public street. What is the threat or violation here? Isn’t this an over-reach by LE? Patrolmen now have nothing better to do than to stroll through parking lots and issue tickets? Not buying this at all.
2) Law enforcement officials know that those cars will be move upon public streets in a matter of hours when the activity is over, its not like they are looking for vagrant vehicles.
3)The show’s parking lot is on a corporately owned grounds? How would LE like it if I as another LEO went through THEIR parking lot looking for expired tags, expired insurance, warrants, etc.
4) Better yet, how about I just show up curbside to your home and inspect your vehicle from afar with a camera? This game can be played both ways.
5) You’re telling me that LEO’s daily troll parking lots of grocery stores, pharmacies, fast food, banks, doctor’s offices, businesses’ (privately and corporately owned) now in efforts of giving out tickets? Interesting news, I’ve never observed this phenomenon. Aren’t there more important things LEO’s need to be doing?
6) Why don’t you just admit that LE is just pawn for FEDS and BUREAUCRATS in violating our rights to privacy?
Subjects that have been brainwashed in thinking the state or federal government can do know wrong have another thing coming.
I believe it’s called the Patriot Act. The one hardly anyone had a problem with during the Bush era. The one that gave unfettered power in the name of protecting us from terror. I don’t know about everyone else but it should have been a red flag that it would be misused and abused, it was to me.. Warrant less searches, wire taps, etc. No one had a problem giving up a lot of freedom then, how do you feel about it now?
@ Jeff.
You can Buy customer Information List from any Retailer. It’s NOT against the law. Retailer do it all the time. How do you think you get all that Junk Mail. I’m willing to bet you the CTD does it too.
I read a story last year that the CA DOJ were scanning plates at Nevada guns shows and then stopping those with CA plates when they crossed the border back into California to search for banned items. Can you say illegal search?
Mr. Dolbee, Great job helping the terrorists. They want you to keep up the complaining about things that protect us. Let us know when you get a clue.
if your worried about rf tracking on your car take your licence plate hit with some electrical current fry the chip.
everyone should check out a gender 21 go to the website Democratagainstunagenda21.com it will walk you through the steps and show you how they’re taking over small town police departments fire departments city councils, also the public education system there is a way to stop these meetings go to your city council meetings print out the Flyers on the website hand it to people educate them.when you see what I did to 21 has planned population control population reduction complete control taking away all your property rights all your public constitutional rights given by the Creator you will see what the agenda truly is a global governance a tyrannical tyranny totalitarian dictatorship.you people must wake up or your civilization will be gone you will have no place to call home you will hide in the mountains as you mourn on your city burning.revelations.it is very important that you learn how to fire a weapon get you a bag get it ready take shooting classes Trek hike get used to white on your back think life on my back life on my back.you’ll be living like nomads especially if you are Christians or believers in the one true Christ.agenda 21 is real and is happening now in our country.call your Senators call your Congressman call your president and tell him you’re not taking it anymore you’re mad as hell and you ain’t going to take it anymore!!!!!
This is a great example of DMV data collection for the sole purpose of dissemination amongst multiple law enforcement agencies for determination of intent or illicit behavior. This would seem permissible if there was a specific individual or collection of individuals who were considered high risk to the general safety of the public. However, this type of data collection would be speculative at best because there isn’t a specific target to be identified attending these types of events. The DEA is phishing for people to be classified as threats to the government and/or public. If any one of these plates were to be connected to an individual who was a potential suspect in a crime they could use this information to harm this persons credibility in a court of law. This is dangerous and a reflection of weak and lazy investigative practices and proves nothing to if an individual actually committed a crime. If anything, a criminal who would attend a gun show to gain possession of a weapon or a weapon related item would now simply use mass transportation or borrow another individuals’ vehicle. That is if he could actually succeed in making a transaction without violation of other laws already in place to screen out criminal purchases.
In the end, this type of behavior is reflective of a government that’s trying to revoke our right to gun ownership by creation of guilt by association to being in attendance of a specific event. Likewise, maybe the DEA, BATFE, FBI and state/local police should require everyone to disclose their drivers license or state issued ID at any public assembly that would discuss politically sensitive topics covered under free speech. They could use this data to suggest treasonous behavior so that these people can be removed from our society. Oh wait, words don’t hurt, only guns. After all, isn’t this what any nation would do when under police rule? Do any of us actually think that the government wants us to have our weapons? If you have to think that this is not the case then you are clearly are not conscience of the current state of 2nd Ammendment affairs. Wake up America, once our rights to firearms or repealed, we are doomed as a nation. Make a difference, vote. Get up and be active in your community. Spread knowledge of proper gun ownership and sportsmanship. Let’s make an example to the 80% of the people in this country who can be influenced to understand what it means to us as Americans then, and only then, can we win. Remember that there are only 10% of our population who truly hate gun ownership and sportsmanship activities that involve hunting or sport shooting. The sides are equal. It’s the 80% who are in the middle that need to be educated. God bless!
We have seen the inexorable ,arch of control-seeking beaucrats that have cameras galore in large cities, facial recognition software, and the like; writing your congressman and/or senator may prove to be a waste of time, but it must be done.
Having worked for 12 years in Superior Court of Az and 14 years Sheriff’s office IT, I’ m insulted by this. I have been background checked and fingerprinted as a condition of employment. Our 2nd amendment rights are abused every day by this Lousy, Creepy bunch of Goons oBama. They are just pissed that They (holder) let all those guns go to Mexico, on their Watch.
What about the Operation before Fast and Furious, Operation Wide Receiver, in 2006. Short Memories.
Well acording to records Op Wide Receiver actually had a rfid tracking component in the weapons that were “walked” where as Fast and Furious did not. These RFIDs allowed tracking to assure location of most of the weapons (tech doesnt work 100% of the time). How did Op Fast and Furious track oh it must have been by police reports generated by people using them in crimes. Additionally and per gov records no deaths were recorded for Op Wide Receiver where multiple were traced to weapons walked for Fast and Furious. But why let facts get in the way of a good story.
Fast & Furious was follow-up to Wide Receiver, as you say fact’.
No not the follow up, or the sequel, or based off of. Fast and Furious was an attempt to create a straw man argument for more rules, regs, and laws pertaining to gund control. If it was to track illegal gun sales the lack of a tracking mechanism should have set off alarms from the start. Your intellectual laziness or worse the assumption that everyone else is is standard operating procedure for progs so please go back to Huff Post or Politico and save us your BS.
@ The True “Skinny”: The key differences between Bush’s ‘Operation Wide Receiver (2006–2007)’ and Obama’s ‘Operation Fast and Furious (2009–2010)’ was that under Bush, the operation was handled low-level with truly good intentions that were only marred in the end by mismanagement at the Tucson Field Office level.
On the other hand, Obama’s operation was handled from the top down. His AG deceitfully used the same failed gun-walking scheme learned from the previous ATF operational mistakes, but this time they were intentionally done in order to allow guns to actually make it onto the streets in Mexico.
The purpose of Obama’s scheme was not to bust gun runners, but instead to make sensational headlines in order to prop up his political agenda for plans to implement major gun control. But his plans became unraveled when a U.S. Agent was murdered by one of Obama’s walked guns. Thus Obama never got a chance to capitalize on his own misdeeds.
There is no other explanation when you consider Bush’s AG shut down operation Wide Receiver in 2007 once it was discovered the guns weren’t being tracked properly. So explain why then Obama instead orders his AG to start the same operation back up in 2009 with the same flaws and then allowed the weapons to go even deeper into Mexico with even less tracking?
The facts truly speak for themselves.
Boy oh boy, you couldn’t be more right about those darn “facts”!
How ’bout this fact, from The Atlantic, talking about firearms from the United States winding up in Mexico:
“More importantly, it is the equivalent of an annual average of 252,000 guns crossing the border, far above previous estimates based on seizure data. In other words, the roughly 37,000 guns seized at the border by U.S. and Mexican authorities in 2009 probably represents less than 15 per cent of total traffic.”
There are approximately 1,000 firearms still to be recovered from OFAF. Sadly, with over a quarter of a million crossing the border each and every year, they may get lost in the shuffle.
We really need to get THOSE guns back though, and obsess about it just a little more, instead of trying to figure out how in the hell over a quarter of a million minty-fresh American guns are winding up in the hands of gun-cartel criminals each and every year. Yessir.
While seemingly a personal attack on Americans enjoying their constitutionally-supported right to possess firearms by a politically-controlled federal agency acting on the personal behest of Barack Obama, it’s actually nothing of the sort, and additionally, was brought upon our society, willingly, by patriotically supporting, and periodically “re-supporting,” the Patriot Act.
I doubt quite seriously that the sunglass-wearing individuals in the suits and ties sitting in those dark-colored Chevy Tahoes with tinted windows are pointing their visual-recognition-license-plate-reading veeblefetzers at ‘plates in a gun show parking lot looking for Billy Ray, Joe-Bob, Me, or 99.999% of the people who attend gun shows.
I would say that they would primarily be interested in running plates and then cross-referencing them with no-fly lists, compilations of “people of interest” lists with possible terrorist ties, and at worst, at least as far as God-fearing ‘Murricans are concerned, people suspected of acting as straw parties in bulk gun sales to undesirables; hardly the company Billy Ray, Joe-Bob, or myself typically keep.
If you don’t like it, or the idea that some snot-nosed college grad in a cubicle can read your Facebook post about how much you like “Zippy Burger,” support politicians who support legislation to do away with the Patriot Act.
So, yes, no big surprise there! They have been watching the public for years. And it’ll only get worse. Now… what do we do about it? That is a good question. At what point is enough actually enough? I don’t relish the idea of possibly losing my life but when do the American People actually stand together and put the government back in it’s place, Of The People, By The People and For The People? I have heard a variety of different numbers concerning how many Americans are actually gun owners and the number are staggering! They have done a bang up job of making us complacent and not questioning what they are doing. When was the last time we pulled a law off the books? I honestly don’t know, but they are constantly enacting law after law so that now we have such a massive mound of laws, no one could possibly in their lifetime read them all. That is not what our founding fathers had in mind. The real issue here is that the Constitution only applies to the united States of America. The Federal Government is not actually a government anymore but a corporation which falls under Corporate Law and as such, the “president” is actually the CEO of the corporation and his only duty is to the share-holders, which are definitely not WE THE PEOPLE! Bring down the corporation and re-instate the Constitutional Republic. This will make us all Kings of our own castles again, free to do anything we wan’t that doesn’t infringe upon the rights of others, as it was designed. We need to educate others every chance we get and eventually people will not stand for this anymore. I’m not suggesting that we incite a riot, revolution or uprising. I just want others to be educated and get to the point where, as they said in “The Network” 1976, “I want you to go to your window, throw it open, stick your head out and yell, ‘I’m mad as hell and I’m not gonna take it anymore’ “.
Track illegal immagrints round them up and throw them back over the fence.. If you voted for our current president to prove your not prejudiced vote for a different one to show you are not retarded. Please
George W. Bush’s administration gave us the Patriot Act, courtesy of John Ashcroft, a guy who got beat by a dead guy in his home state for governor.
W also was in favor of modifying immigration laws.
Does that make people who voted for George W. Bush retarded?
The question here had to do with federal agents looking at gun show attendee’s license plates.
We cannot have complete privacy without giving up some safety. I, personally do not care that the governement can track me or knows about me. They know I am a gun owner as I have had a CC permit for 15 years. A recent example of technology protecting us involved a shootout with police on I-64 near Lewisburg, WV. 2 cops were shot after they stopped a car with plates identified by technology on the Interstate. Both cops survived because of their vests. After the two suspects (father and son) were captured, the bodies of an elderly couple who were murdered in NC after a home invasion and their home burned to the ground were found in one of the vehicles. Without this tag technology, the suspects probably would have escaped to kill again. Let they keep tracking honest Citizens in order to protect honest citizens and too bad the elderly couple did not have the chance to protect their home from scum like this.
Scott –
The question is not whether they use the technology, but what they do with the data. They could use the technology as you stated, but if the vehicles are not stolen or warrants issued they should not store the data. But that is what they are doing, and that’s a warrantless search.
It’s not a “warrant-less” search due to the passage of the Patriot Act. A person who acts as their own attorney has a fool for a client.
Let them track honest citizens?????? Did you EVER read the Bill of Rights?? We do not need citizens like you. You need to go where slaves of the state are told what to read and what to eat and how to act and what to say and ‘allowed’ to be free until jack-booted thugs get bored and decide to invade their home…..
Spoken like a scared lemming ignorant of history. If you can read things like this, know anything about the NSA’s prism program, consider the IRS targeting, and you think these things are legitimate, you’re beyond hope.
Anyone remember the MKS fiasco. Surplus M14 receivers with any parts for auto fire were cutoff, They were then re-welded into sale-able rifles. A few years later along came the ATF demanding confiscation as they considered them illegal machine guns. “Once a machine gun always a machinegun” They confiscated them. The receiver went to trial in Fed court and found NOT GUILTY. The MFG went to jail and fined for tax errors. NOTE: At least three of these guns were sold to ATF Agts, The Attorney General of a southern State an one or two US Senators. Do they still have those? I paid a bond to not have the receiver destroyed. Never officially heard another word about my $250 or the final outcome.
Thus if they photo your plates there is not a thing you can do as you cannot lie as well as they. BTW they made the receivers fire by putting solder on a certain part. Only fired a couple rounds as solder wore out. They had no written instructions for testing, All from public records of the trial.
Referring to the title of this item:
Because they is bad!
More proof the government is out of control, and those in it care nothing of liberty or the Constitution. We’re close to a tipping point, God help us all.
There is already a convention of states movement happening. I’ll bet if you Google it you’ll find a chapter in your state.
arji: Probably so, but talk is Cheap, action is Expensive.
They can watch me, They can follow me. I am an American and I was born here in the State of Florida, and I will not fear The Government because they other matters on there plate… If they were doing there job then Rev Alfred Charles Sharpton Jr. would be in jail for Tax Evasion.
Wow! More than 100 comments in only 2 days.
One observation:
Every government official — federal, state or local, elected, appointed or just a public employee — takes an oath to defend the Constitution (which include the 2nd Amendment and the 4th Amendment). These breaches of the Constitution just prove that for most people, a government paycheck is more important than their personal integrity (i.e., upholding their oath of office).
First, everyone should just put some black tape over the numbers on their plates; make an “E” an “F” or an “L”. Screw up 2, 3 or 4 numbers or alpha characters. Remove them as soon as you leave the show a couple of miles down the road. Don’t worry about “legal”; how can we abide by the law when the government doesn’t? Since the feds won’t protect America or out Constitution, screw them with a broken bottle. Oathkeepers ? Naw, not many will. If we are lucky 30 to 40 % of the military will keep their oath and protect us and them Constitution. Cops? Even less. In fact most will turn on us like dogs. They will use “authority” to kill your dog, rape your wife and daughter, steal your food, water, medicine, weapons, and arms. Maybe 10 to 15% are worth a spit. Elected officials will turn on us. And then the muslims and commies. We few won’t even stick together. Two-hundred thousand private patriots will simply be small ineffective groups AT MOST made up of 20 to 50 devoted oath keepers who never even took an oath in the first place. My oath is in my heart to my country, God and family. Folks your churches, denomination HQ, pastors, ministers have spinelessly caved into islam with “interfaith” programs of tolerance and acceptance. Check with about any church or denomination for proof. Research ISNA’s own brags and claims that they now have a foot in the door of almost all churches, synagogues, temples; ALMOST ALL! Research “CHRISTLAM”; GET SHOCKED! Now, go to “muslim beheading”, and watch a few. Hope you find the still photos of the stack of dead infants (babies) and the other pile of their innocent heads. This is to wake you up to what will soon be here. The damn schools where your kids and grandkids go take them on MANDATORY “field trips” to listen to lies and propaganda from lying muslims. Hey, it is your tax money. Kick the school board out, and the mayor, commission and boycott businesses who support islam. You don’t even have to pick up a gun, just get off your ass or loose your head. We can still rid America of this filth by the actions of everyday citizens. But we have to act, act now, and act militantly in unison.
I am in TN and the state passed laws to make Sharia law illegal. No one is “supposed to” take in part in enabling Sharia law. TN passed laws to make it illegal to assist in any effort in federal confiscation of arms. Now, that sounds great , right? A couple of months ago 3 Saudis were traveling through a town named Millersville. A cop pulled them over. He says, where you going. They say, we going to Franklin to bury a dead fetus that is in our trunk. And we have a permit for it. First, there is NO muslim cemetery in Franklin. Second, you cannot transport a dead fetus, and there is no permit one can get, PERIOD. So this dumb ass (maybe scared) cop writes no details, zero, nada, nothing; couldn’t remember the color of the car. The car had temp. tags. The Saudis only had Saudi drivers licenses. I emailed the Chief of Police, I have emailed and called my state senator and state house member several times. I have not had one single response. What I am saying is law does not mean anyone is going to enforce it. BHO violates the laws on the books about immigration and makes up other laws. Friends the law or Constitution will no longer protect us as we are dealing with pure satanic evil, traitors, high crimes against America and international crimes againso humanity. WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO STEP UP AND PROTECT THE CONSTITUTION, CAUSE IT AIN’T GONNA PROTECT US UNTIL WE HAVE HONORABLE, CHRISTIAN, PATRIOTS IN CHARGE. 100% of dems are communist socialists and muslim butt kissers; the GOP/RINOs are about 85 to 90% in the same category. Politics and our oath breakers are utter failures. It is time to pray til the knees in your pants are HOLY and holey. Then get you butts to act. Civil disobedience of major proportions and militancy. Sit on your butt and just go off to the ovens like to Jews in WWII. Just like sheep to slaughter.
Ha ha, making list available to local police departments. Every gun show I go to I see all our local police officers, Sheriff deputies, etc. Luckily I live in PA and all our officers believe in citizens being armed. Not like the crap state NY, NJ, MD around us. Molon Labe!
The governments of California,Illinois, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and NYC are doing a little forward planning. If the federal government collapses, they have set themselves to be warlords of independent states-civilian disarmament and heavily militarized police forces. Full automatic weapons for riot control in NYC!
I fail to understand the big surprise when people are told that our government is spying on them. You can thank George Bush for all of this when he signed the patriot act 14 years ago. It gave the government power to do just about anything it wanted to gather intelligence on anyone. further, the government had been collecting data on Americans for many years before Bush became president. so don’t be shocked… this is not the same government we had 70 or 80 years ago. right now, it is all about greed and corruption and spying on all of us.
Personally, I feel that the grow of technology is advancing so quickly, that these agencies don’t know what to do…meaning, they’re collecting information because they hope that at some point, they might be able to prevent something from happening; I don’t know. As someone who follows the law as best as I can, I’m more concerned as to why we don’t teach our youth not just the constitution, but the laws of our states and local communities. I wish I knew all the local ordinances, laws and state laws without having gone to college. I think we’re too reactive and not proactive. God bless these United States!
We are now at a point where our own government is a greater threat to our freedom than any foreign threat.
This cannot be said often enough,
the anti gunners have no regard for our way of life and the rule of law.
What they cannot accomplish at the federal level they are active and successful at the local and state level.
PLEASE PAY ATTENTION to your state legislatures, thay are weak and vulnerable to local press accounts.
Hound your local reps and senators whenever this kind of news surfaces.
Long live the republic
Ivan: Where did you come up with that “Screw Ball” notion. That like saying Left-Handed people are more likely to commit crimes, than Right-Handed people.
I’m sorry, but you couldn’t be more wrong. Please study your history. Particularly Nazi and Soviet eras. If you disagree with a particular regime, or own a gun then you are the enemy. Perhaps not today but in the futureit could very well be the case
Isn’t it interesting. In my 60 years I have gone from trusting or government to do the right thing for the people to fearing the government. We are now under the most criminal and closed administration in my lifetime and likely in our history. The disheartening thing is that so many millions either agree with the administration or are so uniformed that they don’t care where we are heading.
Fast and Furious.. IRS… V.A. Scandal.. Benghazi.. Abrupt troop withdrawals from Iraq and Afghanistan… Pro-islamic…. Federal card decks with nothing but race cards…. Illegal aliens… Absolutely No FOREIGN Policy or DOMESTIC Policy/hell, our enemies fear not the United States…Consumer abuse is rampant and FCC does nothing about it…. Social healthcare costing Real and True Americans a lotta money, as in billions… Gun owners/rights being systematically obliterated….
I am a 24 year U.S. Army veteran of war and peace. Republican. I will defend animals against abuse neglect and torture with my blood. My family and patriotic values are my most valuable asset.
What i am NOT is a bleeding heart, politically correct, womb rejected liberal whose ONLY purpose is to destroy America……
On my honor, I WILL WIN!! I will destroy, and defeat, all enrmies, foreign and domestic.
America is rapidly becoming the leader of the third world…and that requires me to own a gun.
Because I am a Soldier, my family and I have been threatened by islamic cowards, isis. Therefore, I shall own and discharge my weapon with honor and most importantly, with responsibility.
They want to track me? Better prove you are tracking terorists and illegals and criminals before you track me………
Whats right is legal is fair.
I AM AN AMERICAN!!
Since when has this government needed you to do something wrong before they attacked you? What do you think Fast and Furious was about but to blame gun stores for selling guns to drug cartels and use that as an excuse to steal our 2nd amendment! How about our rights to privacy and free speech? IF your doing nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about? Are you serious!!!
@ ?: I hear and read people like you speaking this way all the time these days. Your comments, along with others that espouse thoughts like, “I have nothing to hide, so let ‘em waste their time” – shows just how conditioned people have become to not realize the importance of fighting to maintain every single tidbit of our freedoms.
Sure we all have the right to go around and video each other, but it’s what one does with the data that makes the difference, and there are laws that limit what the government is allowed to do when it comes to its citizens.
Give an inch and THEY will take much more than a mile. Speaking of “THEY”, why is that? Why do you, and so many others, use terms such as “WE” vs. “THEY”? That alone should alarm everyone reading this; because there was never meant to be an US and THEM. The government was intended to be an extension of us… “We the People”.
So for anyone waiting for a symbol or sign that it is “GO TIME”, there it is right there. Until such time that we can honestly say there is no more “US” and “THEM” and instead see the government has truly been restored back to “We the People”, Everyone had better step up their game and take some kind of action before we lose it all.
I’m pretty sure I’ve been on lists for years and I’m a retired Leo, with several firearms .survival equipent and all sorts of reloading. Been to gun shows, survival stores belong to several org, the point I’m trying to make is I have been political most of my adult life, and the same as%h*les keep getting elected. Now we have this POS President, All I’m saying is I’m not giving up MY father did”nt fight 2 Wars to let him Piss all over America
Thanks Dave for the very interesting article. About a Month ago while on line a screen popped up that said NASA. and that the information on my computer was seized. ( Not exact words ).. What the heck was that all about?
Chris,
I am not sure about that one. My suspicion would be a hacker attempt or a virus. Be sure to keep close tabs on your system. ~Dave Dolbee
@ Dave Dolbee.
Was a VIRUS, flat lined my computer. Rendered it totally useless. Had to buy a new one with all the “Bell’s and Whistle’s” protection software too. Lucky this was, Nothing worth Stealing on it.
As in anything else, if your not dirty than why worry about someone gathering info on you. I don’t care if they log my cell data or how many guns I buy because I’m not up to any shady business. If they want to waste their time on me than fine. But if these programs help catch or stop a criminal after or before they kill a bunch of people than it’s worth it. Bottom line is, if your not up to no good, than you have nothing to fear.
Steve,
This is exactly the wrong attitude to have. Regardless, if your “dirty” or not it is not constitutional for the government to continue encroaching on our rights. It is time for a Convention of States to stop the federal government from its continued degradation of the constitution. Contact your state representatives and state senators to enact a Convention of States in your state.
Anthony
“If you disagree with a particular regime, or own a gun, then you are the enemy.”
As we speak this day, tis exactly what is happening and so you made an absolutely, “right on” statement.
Sadly, however almost necessary, martial law may be the only avenue of approach to rid the country of deviants such as islam and muslims, illegal aliens, and criminsl elrments bordering on terror. With a lick of common sense and logic, and of course the right leadership and/or political guides, Ameruca can return to the people, the REAL and TRUE American…
Oifmack: Unfortunately we don’t live in the Marvel Comic World, so I don’t actually know a Real and True American is anymore.
You know TwoDrink…….
I must give in a bit, and agree with you regarding “who Real and True Americans are”….
Where are we and why are we NOT fighting the current occupants of the White House??
Oifmack: The Federal Government is made up of MANY Houses, the White House is just one of them.
That is the correct attitude to have. But, it depends on the “current” leadership at the time. Give an inch, a mile is taken. Americans have proven, that they themselves, are not exactly trustworthy. True, if you have “nothing to hide”, then……..
Hear it all the time ” freedom, Bill of Rights” and it echoes….
At some point, government is gonna have to take charge. Municipal and state law enforcement are gradually losing their purpose based on civil rights and erroneous rights galore.
So again, when is “patriotic responsibility” gonna be a value? Or do you want self governance?
The point here, is that the obama, tunnel worshipping, tyrranical “sociology” thought and theory is devaluing America’s patriotic and family values thereforr causing the weakening of the original intent of our Constitution…..
Oifmack: The problem with that statement is, that it’s Not been weakened from withOUT. It’s being weakened from withIN. We elected the Idiot’s and their causing the Damage.
Agreed… and my reference to obama should have clarified that..
However, with obama, he is allowing foreign intervention making it almost acceptable…by some….. and so outside interference is having some impact….
Oifmack: At present time we havy a Naval of only 274-ships and getting smaller. The 2016 Congress Funding Appropriations Bill for the Navy call for 306-ship’s in a 30-year build. The ChiCom’s have 520-ship’s, and are getting larger everyday. The Russian’s are a Non Entity Player with only 75-serviceable ships in their Fleet. If it weren’t for our Numerical Superiority in Air Craft Carriers, we’d be in some REALLY deep @#$%, We can’t even fight a naval battle without help from or Allies. At the official end of WW2, 31 December 1946. The US. Navy had 71,009-ship’s of various classes. “How far the mighty have fallen”.
Steve, you are 100% CORRECT!!! I can`t believe it when I read dumb-ass statements like “I`m not doing anything illegal so I don`t care what they do” My GOD! That`s like saying come in to my house and take whatever you want because it`s all legal! That bleeding heart leftist “crap” is what`s tearing this country to pieces!
I didn`t mean “Steve” in my previous post. my comment was directed at a reply to Steve`s ridiculous comment
Steve: I am always at a loss to understand the rationale that a person such as yourself possesses. I am also a former LEO and don’t want criminals being in possession of weapons. More importantly though, I don’t like being lumped in with the criminal fringe of society. Especially when the gathering of information is being used to political ends. As G-man stated in his post, “if you give the government an inch they will take much more than a mile.” And they most certainly will! The more you open yourself up to scrutiny will only set precedence for that and more. By your way of thinking, “I’m not doing anything wrong, what do I have to worry about?” If that’s the case then let them listen in to every telephone conversation you have, read every email, track where you’re going in your vehicle, make random warrantless searches of your dwelling, open your mail, make list’s of who you associate with, compile lists of everyone who lawfully owns firearms and ammunition etc. etc. I could go on and on with the supposition but at what point does it conclude and to what end and for what purpose in allowing such surveillance? There are Constitutional principles that we hold sacred and if you educated yourself as to why they were put there then maybe you would be more mindful that we should bind the government to the stricture of the Constitution in not assuming that “we” are all suspect and “they’ have every right to inquire as such. Your cavalier attitude towards all our personal liberty troubles me and I hope you’ll rethink it for the collective sake of us all who love our country and have sworn many times to uphold its Constitution and protect it.
Al, I couldn’t have said it better. Thanks for your service!
Here’s the thing Steve. The info that is being gathered has never been used to “catch or stop a criminal”, yet more and more tax dollars are being spent to continue to create new methods (especially without our knowledge) and databases for tracking gun ownership. If it’s not working to solve the problem, and had never been shown to work in the past, why continue to waste more and more money gathering useless info? Think on it. The Government isn’t run and directed by “the people” anymore, it’s run by the rich and powerful, individuals with political and economic agendas – agendas shown countless times to NOT have “the people’s” best interest at heart. These individuals make money, not waste it. To think that “if your not up to no good, than you have nothing to fear” is simply naive. Jewish people weren’t “up to no good”. History will repeat itself, in one way or another, it always does.
Steve,
Your comment bottom line comment is the same one the Cuban Government used right before becoming communist…..
Once the second amendment is gone, all the others will swiftly follow. Yes, Obama has proven to be the most anti-gun pResident in our history. All one needs to do is investigate his history in Illinois to determine that. His plan is to destroy the United States and that begins with destroying our constitution.
When foresaking Liberty in the name of Safety, you will have neither
Hey to all of you. Just to let you know Obama care is not a health care bill, in fact it is Government take over and YES that will be the bill in which the gun grabbing will be implimented. Get ready boys and girls here they come!
There is no secret to this.
Record the tags of some felons means propaganda against gun shows (which is the lie behind the drive for registration under the guise of Universal Background Checks).
If that comes up blank, just keep that registry, particularly of tags repeated at multiple shows. Any time you snag a straw purchaser, see if they even attended a show (even if they were not buying guns – it is about guild by associate for the show), and your propaganda is back on.
I attended a gun show in Hampton, Virginia near the coliseum at the convention center. Two days over 10, 000 attended. The police were patrolling the parking lots, which is unusual. I’ve been to WWE sold out events, concerts, truck shows,etc. Police officers are always inside as expected. The constant patrolling seemed to be unusual. I thought at first maybe they were looking for someone, but it was up one lot, down the other.
I read somewhere that at airports they can scan cars in the parking lots to see if weapons and such are in them.. I don’t know if they can do that out of a police car or not though..
@ Tom.
You mean there ISN’T an iPhone Police Surveillance App, yet…
You all bring good comments to the table: However, the law abiding citizens really need to start standing up for our constitutional rights given to us when we were born citizens of this country. The forefathers realized way back that too much government is not good for freedom. The current regime in the white house is an obamanation. The person currently in the presidents seat does not care about this country nor do the idiots that follow him. He’s a individual with his own agenda and it’s very obvious that it is to destroy this country and turn it in to a socialistic society. He is way to friendly to the muslim community. He has driven a stake through our allies in Israel and other nations. when he speaks nothing but a slew of lies spew out from his mouth. its the same old rhetoric and same old crap… His constituents are covertly undermining the second amendment …If people don’t think this government isn’t desperately trying and succeeding in taking away our 2nd amendment rights…there heads are in the sand. The big anti-gun advocates, like bloomberg, cuomo, fienstein, reid, soros, biden and especially obama are just waiting to unleash their final plan of attack…. I guess what it will take is the blue helmeted anti-americans from other countries kicking american doors in, for Americans to wake up. Too late then… Obama-Our Biggest Ass Mistake America.
I will start by saying I love firearms and think everybody should have 1 in every caliber, but where in the 2nd amendment does it mention anything about private gun sales? Also if we are abiding the laws why worry? The intentions here are good, times are changing and so are law enforcement tactics. With all the terrorism going on and so many mentally unstable people around it makes since they would track license plates and cross reference them with plates they suspect to be owned by those people. Lastly, every gunshow I have attended have been in city owned or town owned buildings making it fair game for them to patrol or even make a list of every car plate in that parking lot. If its a big deal just dont park there or walk. Or dont go, everything is always very overpriced anyway as opposed to any store around me in northern mn/wi anyway. This is just my opinion,which eveverybody is entitled to so please no bashing me for an opinion, that’d be unconstitutional dont ya know.
It mentions private gun sales right in the part that says “shall not be infringed”, that’s a pretty all inclusive statement. What always gets me is that everyone says if you’re not doing anytHing wrong then you shouldn’t worry, but I think the opposite, if I’m not doing anything wrong then you shouldn’t worry about what I’m doing. Things like universal background checks and gun registry treat all gun owners legal or otherwise like they are criminals, what happened to being innocent until proven guilty?
Well said. Turn about is fair play. I should not have to be concerned with federal surveillance of my activities because I engage in lawful behavior. This is the very sort of government abuse of its authority that the Constitution is supposed to protect the people from. We do not have to explain our lawful activities to the government, the government is supposed to explain its activities, covert or otherwise, to us.
What a bunch of crap. Cops have nothing better to do than spy on the good people? It must be too hard and too dangerous to go after real criminals.
Now a days, it is not good government business to go after real criminals in the US. Real criminals don’t pay work legal jobs, pay taxes, or have property or valuable assets. Criminals are dangerous and cost money to jail them. But, the hard working class honest citizens are fair game. They have money, property, and assets that the government can seize and auction away. That is a win situation for our now lazy crooked government programs bent on disarming the American public. It’s all about control and power now.
@ JDM Dealers.
Criminal have been know to go too Churches and Even known to Pray, too…
At: Jovus Whilot.
Isn’t that being hypocritical. The NRA preaches about Armed Guards and Police in the Schools, and other Public Places. And your saying “Get Out of My Life”.
The LPR is a great tool for law enforcement. Who can remember 2000+ stolen license plate numbers? I am personally a fan of this product especially because it could get my stolen car back in one day or the same day. Which in my experience is all it is used for in law enforcement at the local level (city/county police) In the same turn it should be used for its intended purpose and not to track the comings and goings of law abiding citizens at a gun show or where ever.
What is not being said is the data collection is for when “Martial Law” is imposed, after which the information will be used to readily and handily go and confiscate guns by the data saved. Remember this insidious President and US Atty are butt-buddys and are working on the “Civil Unrest” that will allow them to nail us down! And the data collected will be used to key the Military where to look for guns and ammo…
Why is this news to so many? People you have seen the police cars with the dual rear facing cameras as you go to and from work and everywhere else you go. They have been tracking and storing data on your every move for years. Don’t believe me pose the question to your local government authority head. They will either tell you this and then give you the “it is for your safety” BS or they will stammer and give a BS denial.
If you think about it, if it was the Phoenix division of the DEA, it was probably an operation designed to see who was buying guns and taking them to Mexico. Since it was DEA, that makes sense since there is so much violence and drugs south of the border.
Finally, someone else who caught that. I think that “(redacted)” in the article was likely “Mexico”. I think this story brought about a little too much paranoia.
Marbury v Madison established The Constitution of The United States as Supreme Law of The Land. The crux of the matter is whether or not these alphabet gangs have any oath of office, D.O.A.O. (Delegation of Authority Order ) or issued charter. I submit to you that these are foreign corporations operating in repugnancy to the Constitution. See US v Strang, 254 US 491, Lewis v US, 680 F.2d, 1239. This also apply to FBI, CIA,FCC,DEA,BATF,NASA, do your research find out for yourselves. All police powers are to be exercised within Constitutional limits. Those corporations that operate outside of constitutional limits are foreign insurgents, enemy combatants, and do make war against The Constitution of The United States Republic sitting in the seats of government under fraud . Resistance is not futile. Blacks Law Dictionary 3rd & 4th editions are your friend.
If it is legal and constitutionally ok for me to walk around the public with video cameras please tell me why its not ok or unconstitutional for law enforcement to do the same. The same technology can be purchased if you have the money, if we can do it then so can they. Dont get mad get glad 😉 violation of rights is a two way street but for some reason some people think leo, s or government employees dont have the same rights. MIND BOGGLING
Tracking license plates at gun shows isn’t anything new. The ATF did ths back in the 90s. Then it mostly done to the dealers and show promoters. They would also send in shills to intice dealers to sell something on their table off paper. More than one was arrested by local police and later admitted to being an ATF informant. The Feds have been drunk with power for a long time. Regrettably, there are good descent people in Law enforcement at the Federal level and these good people get lumped in with the few jack booted thug Wannabes. This technology simply makes the job easier and the ability to collect much more data.
They don’t read the license plate # . They read the BAR CODE that is on the Bottom of your Inspection Sticker. When you get your car inspected at the Division of Motor Vehicle they type in your Registration Information. Name, Address, Insurance Co., Make & Model, Color, 2 Door or 4 Door, ETC…ETC…ETC… Once the police get that information they run your name for ANY Outstanding Arrest Warrants, & any other Criminal Activity. I see the Police running some ones License plate # while they are sitting at a Red light or at a R x R Crossing. If they get a Hit, the Police wait for the light to turn Green & as soon as they car goes through the light the Police pull them over.
The idea of government agencies tracking vehicles is not the problem in my opinion. The main issue for me is the abuse of the information by the present administration which has demonstrated it will abuse the information with a nefarious purpose. The present administration has abused every aspect of it’s authority in practically every way possible. Therefore, in order to protect average, law abiding citizens I am against such a program.
I think this is a result of Obama’s biggest regret being unable to enact gun controls. So they sneakily do it another way. We all need to contact our senators and congressmen and raise (polite) hell about it. That’s how “Chokepoint” was exposed and eliminated. Obama/Holder will do anything at this point to try to rectify his failure to enact “common sense” controls. I love how they use the words “common sense” to try to make it palatable with the population but he’s not fooling gun owners with those slick words. He’s just an *-hole.
I could not agree more!
MONEY, CONTROL, and POWER!! Why all the resources,and information gathering! The reason it works is because, TRICKLE DOWN , theory, is no theory! It obviously work’s, the proof is in the tactics. And repeat, of GOVERNMENT, constant violating our CONSTITUTIONAL ,right’s with IMPUNITY! When you see the same attack, played over, and over , with no repercussion’s , or accountability, we must conclude , that the simple reasoning is the correct answer! The definition of INSANITY, is to continue to repeat the same action, over, and over and EXPECT different result’s. So in conclusion, History, has shown this tactic used in less technological fashions, repeat itself with the result of TYRANNY! SO , are we CRAZY, or is it as simple as it appear’s. We, the people, are in control of our elected government, or our government has become illegitimate? They , by definition, and action’s , or inaction, are accusing the AMERICAN ,voter’s of being the INSANE, and illegitimate, of the two.And are ACTING as our Guardian’s, and want us, placed in a position of (NON COMPOS MENTOS) !
While we, as individuals, may not be able to do anything about various government agencies collecting and using these kinds of data, we can certainly take our own countermeasures. Magnetic license plate brackets, anyone? If you’re concerned about surreptitious surveillance by LEA LPRs, why not simply make it easy to remove and hide your license plate when your vehicle is not in motion?
I thought about the same thing…….
Haven’t even read the article yet. But to answer the question, it’s because they’re scared.
Of course they’re scared, as they should be. They make their living off of people’s misery. The law enforcement community have only themselves to thank for the increasing fear and mistrust that the American People have towards them. They’re scared because they know that it’s only a matter of time until the masses get sick of their nonsense and turn on them.
These POS’s will do anything ordered to saying it’;s for your protection even shooting you in the head for no reason? W-T-F and see what is going down and prepare for all out CIVIL WAR?
I firmly believe a “civil war” is coming…….don’t know where, don’t know when………..but it’s coming and it’s going to be messy. Those liberals will point fingers and laugh when you make a comment like this, also they will try to be-little you and make fun of you for saying it. Time will tell.
At: Jesse James.
As far as I know, the NRA and other groups aren’t particularly fussy about “political demographics” in their “rankin file” ranks, as long as they pay the dues. I now of several as called liberals and rhino’s that also carry guns.
Was it an intentional assault on our liberties? You betcha. Everything this government does now is over-the-top. And why? Because it’s already too-big-to-fail. Nobody can take it down now. It’s past the point of restraint. The politicians are already doing things we believed our Constitution protected us from, and nobody is stopping them. They are at the tipping point now, and pushing the camel’s nose way inside the tent. The soap box failed. The ballot box failed. What’s left? I’m sure I just got added to a watch list for this.
Well said, Wagonmaster. A perfect example of what you stated in your last paragraph is the IRS’ involvement in targeting the Tea Party Patriots merely because of their conservative stance. I have not heard anything to date regarding anyone who was punished in a meaningful way or fired outright by the IRS for their egregious transgression, but history has shown that once a person becomes part of the government, they are rarely given the heave-ho.
It makes me wonder, however, if the IRS, NSA and CIA will begin to look into the activities of Muslim groups in the U.S. who shelter and promote the activities of known ISIL members who are reported to have infiltrated into the United States. Judging from Obama’s outrageously lax attitude toward Guantanamo detainees, I doubt that ISIL members here have much to worry about.
@ Smitty 550.
The problem is most groups like ISIL might be Sleeper Cells, which usally don’t draw much attention to themselves. There some Militia Groups out there that draw so much attention to themselves, that I’m not surprised that they don’t attach Christmas Lights to the Roof’s of their Houses and have ArcLight in their front yards. SAYING HERE I AM…
The story btoke on the eve of midterm elections that Jeanne Shaheen (D) NH was involved in ordering the IRS hit on the Tea Party. There are email records and other communications linking her directly to Lois Lerner. Now that a senator is linked with targeting political opponents, that is who gets held accountable: http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/03/bombshell-memo-jeanne-shaheen-conspired-with-white-house-insider-on-irs-targeting-scandal/
Watched a movie the other night about a computer hacker who was very good at what he did, until he hacked into a program fathered by the CIA & DHS. One by one his friends started disappearing and then they found out about him. He thought he had been so careful but his ego trip cost the lives of two of his close friends. In the end the CIA and DHS caught up with him and with torture they found out he was not a “terrorist” but a “hacker” and they offered him a “job”. Even though it was a movie I can easily see this happening in real life. I am tempted to stop at the gas station about 5 miles from the gun show and remove my tag and putting it back on after I leave at the same gas station. Why do they feel the need to know the name of each and every person attending a “gun show”? I firmly believe there are “sleeper cells” out there, more than you would care to count. The muslims obama has allowed in the country of ours are “ticking time-bombs”.
Here’s the list of things Obama has said about Islam
1. “The future must not belong to those who slander the Prophet of Islam.”
2. “The sweetest sound I know is the Muslim call to prayer”
3. “We will convey our deep appreciation for the Islamic faith, which has done so much over the centuries to shape the world — including in my own country.”
4. “As a student of history, I also know civilization’s debt to Islam.”
5. “Islam has a proud tradition of tolerance.”
6. “Islam has always been part of America”
7. “We will encourage more Americans to study in Muslim communities.”
8. “These rituals remind us of the principles that we hold in common, and Islam’s role in advancing justice, progress, tolerance and the dignity of all human beings.”
9. “America and Islam are not exclusive and need not be in competition. Instead, they overlap, and share common principles of justice and progress, tolerance and the dignity of all human beings.”
10. “I made it clear that America is not — and will never be — at war with Islam.”
If all this surveillance were being done on these “sleeper cells” and other muslim organizations I’d say fine, go ahead,
But to target law abiding citizens is nothing short of ignorant. We must never under-estimate the power of idiots!!
.
While it’s best to never underestimate the ability of the government to dissemble or even be wastefully incompetent, there are a couple of things to keep in mind about government monitoring gun shows and license plates.
First, local police habitually send undercover LEOs to gun shows for the same reason they send them to bus and train stations: that’s where wanted felons often show up.
Second, in most states that issue carry permits, the permit is noted on the DMV record for the license plate. This is so LEO making a traffic stop has a heads-up that someone in the car might be armed. This does not by itself mean anything nefarious, like police intent to confiscate a gun. Your license plate’s DMV data also shows outstanding warrants (see previous point above), registration status, etc. Anyway, most conscientious cops approach any routine vehicular contact very cautiously, and for good reason.
Seems to me the bigger danger is info-sharing between agencies that have no charter to collect or use particular pieces of data. When you put them altogether with the sole intent of building a case against a particular citizen who belongs to an out-of-favor group, it crosses constitutional lines, IMO.
Some of you regulars here are aware I hold a relatively high position within the Federal Government that oversees multiple departments/agencies. And though I can never reveal exactly what I do as a matter of policy and for security reasons, I do try my best to provide answers without getting myself into trouble.
With that said, I can tell you folks that LPRs are an ever emerging technology which causes the DOJ and DHS to appear as kids in a candy store while they discover all its new uses. The problem is there are so many well-intended divisions and task forces with authority to act independently that a small section could have actually been responsible for coming up with this; yet because the DOJ is the parent department, they must take the bum rap even if they never knew… and as well they should for not knowing.
You would have to actually see with your own eyes as I have over 32 years before you would ever believe all the half-baked and harebrained schemes the so-called Division Chiefs, RACs, SACs, Directors, Task Force Commanders, and the like come up with. Rarely have I seen it stem from political motivations, and more so just from a true tunnel-vision nature for thwarting the bad-guys.
Never-the-less, some overzealous agents do lose sight of their duty to protect citizens rights. So shamefully they get caught up doing wrong, but for the right reasons.
As hard as this may be to believe, many division leaders don’t consult their legal departments prior to implementing untested emerging technologies. Especially given there is often no legal precedence set as of yet for the new tech – and so they have been known to proceed first to test the waters and conduct a wait-and-see approach.
Only after a controversy arises will they stop the operation or postpone it until the legal aspect has been formally decided. At this point is usually when a department head is made aware and must deal with the fall-out.
Now allow me to add even more confusion… Many are unaware how many Joint/Multi-agency Task Forces, Intelligence Centers, and Anti-terrorist Threat Centers were created after 9/11. This was on top of those that already existed throughout every single state. These centers are comprised of Local, County, State, and Federal officers and agents as well as National Guard and Military assets.
Given the joint nature of these facilities, Directors from the varying participating agencies rotate so no one agency feels abused that another is always in charge. So given whoever is in charge at the time that a sub-element decided to wrongfully use an LPR is the one that must take the heat.
Ah but alas, there is yet another aspect on top of this… Some of these Departments like the DOJ have entire budgets for funding research and development on programs that develop technologies to advance law enforcement and crime fighting techniques. Often these emerging technologies are piloted by a University with funding from the DOJ.
Others are driven by private corporations that offer free technology assets for law enforcement to field test. They do this because they can later advertise their equipment was officially tested by real officers and it increases their sales, while the rest hope they will eventually gain a contract after officers become accustomed to using the free equipment and don’t wish to give it up.
In any case, this goes on all the time. And with so many universities and corporations trying to peddle their wares and so many task force commanders willing to test it, one can see how eventually the LPR technology eventually gets abused by one task force commander and yet it still not a real conspiracy at a National level.
I’m not saying it is okay, but rather I am attempting to explain how these things can happen at a very local level by a not-so-bright commander and yet it still lands as a National issue in headlines that blames the DOJ.
In closing I have to say, the larger and more dangerous conspiracies are not discovered through a Freedom of Information Request anyway. If the government really doesn’t want you to know about something, trust me, you won’t. It takes an Edward Snowden event before that kind of stuff gets revealed to the public… and that is quite rare.
Living in south Texas I’ve been through many border patrol checkpoints. They have been using license plate cameras for years. I believe they are actually readers rather than pictures because pictures are too difficult to scan for information. So I believe LPR has been used for quite a long time while most citizens are unaware of it because they never pass through border patrol checkpoints.
@ arji: You would be partially correct. LPRs have been in use much longer than many Americans realize, with first uses deployed primarily along the southern US border by DHS.
However, the mobile LPR process has always been generally the same – whereby the unit monitors live digital video through a lens and creates digital snapshots when it detects a license plate within its own video feed. The snapshot image is then scanned with an Optical Character Recognition algorithm to extract the license plate’s alpha-numeric information.
The main difference through the years is better software algorithms and also state vehicle divisions cooperating with enhanced license plate paints that help reflect the characters better in any conditions, including infrared night vision.
From there the information is stored along with other characteristically relevant information and GPS coordinates for later analysis. Or it is wirelessly transmitted real-time to any number of law enforcement databases for immediate comparison against other known criminal data.
LEAs have varying policy as to how a “hit” is confirmed and the appropriate response that should be taken by the LEA in the field upon a match.
I heard of one through the rumor mill, that an ISIS Sleeper Cell Group were going to Scheduled Gun Shows around the country by weapons here, and the people being followed were redheaded and spoke perfect American English. I haven’t yet been able to find anything on the internet, but I’m still looking. Also did they change the design on the DP-12 shotgun? It looks different to me, or maybe it just the lighting in the pictures…
Secundius, I sent a reply to you, but God knows what happened to it. Replies have seemed to plop anywhere on these threads. I have no idea why.
@ Smitty 550.
Several weeks ago, ss1 commented about a comment I made on the Rock and Rolling with the 12 Gauge DP-12 Double-Barrel Pumpgun website. The problem was at that time I never signed-up for that website, so how did it get there. One of life’s little mysteries, that and where does my left sock goes when I put in the Dryer…
Thanks, Sec. I thought I was going nuts.
Hey guys lets all buy guns, sit around and bitch about losing them and then do nothing until we can no longer own them.
They, They, They, They aren’t the problem. WE allow our freedoms to be taken but boy do we know how to bitch.
I agree, but other than continually writing our senators, representatives, and the Big O himself, plus contributing to the gun owners associations, what else can we do? When governments get as large as ours is, there is not much else we can do. If there is, please let me know.
Smitty550,
Agreed.
@ Mc Ruger.
Sounds like a plan…
Alright …lets get to it………
Sadly the “DUMB MAJORITY” is running the “US of A” into a deep hole of worthlessness.This once great nation is no longer the country the world respects and trust’s.”We The People” are no longer served by the people we voted for and trusted to run this country the right way.
“We The People” are now serving our elected “Masters in Washington”. Who only serve themselves.Too many of the “DUMB MAJORITY”, are too busy with their own life problems to concern themselves with the running of this nation and it’s problems.Thus the continued lowering of the American standard of living. The “bar of life” that was once set high in America, is now so low, you need to crawl on your belly to get under it.There are too few of us “SMART MINORITY” to make the changes this country needs to put America back on top. Our numbers are too few to make the difference with a vote.The only way for the “SMART MINORITY” to help right the continuing wrongs of this country.Is by a BLOODY REVOLT. YES, BLOOD must be spilled to thin down the numbers of the “DUMB MAJORITY”. So the “DUMB MAJORITY” will become the “DUMB FEW”.That is the only way I see this once great country, becoming a great nation again.
Tyranny has many faces, right now the “DUMB MAJORITY” is one of them.
There’s a better way to deal with it without too much blood spilled. Start picking these idiots off, one at a time. After a few of them are gone, the rest will get the message. Much better than civil war.
Your point being what? Has the NRA ever stormed your castle?
im not concerned about the nra nor the feds
MOAN LOABE
A long time ago I thought this would happen. Think they read Shooters Log?
MOLON LABE!
Why in the world would the feds want to track citizens who
attend gun shows? What criminal activities are these citizens suspected of that would justify the considerable expense of the resources that are required to do this? Is this possibly another step towards confiscation which we are told so frequently that no one is talking about? It would seem that someone is doing a lot more than just talking about confiscation. It would seem that someone is taking the very steps necessary to begin such a task. I wonder who that might be.
They likly track law abiding citizens because it’s so much easer than trying to track criminals! Just a guess 😉
It’s a step towards an “anti” policy of one kind or another? Maybe. Likely.
Are you surprised?? You shouldn’t be.
I’m not surprised at all. The only thing that surprises me is that this information was made public. I don’t believe that all the information about firearms ownership generated by the NICS is being destroyed either, even though by law it is supposed to be destroyed and not collected.
The feds haven’t the slightest interest in whether or not criminals have firearms. They’re concerned about whether or not law abiding citizens will be able to defend themselves against the illegal predations of the feds.
What about the NRA? The NRA is the countries largest Privately Held Database of Current, Former and Prospective Gun Owners in the United States…
NRA is on our side. Ya think the government can’t hack there data base?Back under another topic ( if you could only have three guns) I said that we probably blab too much on line.
@ OLD&GRUMP.
The NRA is on OUR side, until they say OTHERWISE. Remember the NRA has it own Political agenda, and if you get in there way OUCH…
I’m not worried about the NRA. I can’t say the same about the Feds.
@ Bobby G.
I live just outside WDC, in Northern Virginia. NOBODY from the Government has stormed my Castle and taken away my guns yet, and I’ve live here since 1962…
Your point being what? Has the NRA ever stormed your castle?
@ Bobby G.
No. But like with the Government, I don’t exactly see Eye-To-Eye, with the NRA either We have differing opinions on certain things. And those opinions are between me and the NRA, the FBI, the IRS, and any other 3-letter combination you can think of. Even Multiply Lettering Groups, TOO…
I’m still not sure what your point is, please enlighten me.
@ Bobby G.
As I said before, it’s between ME and THEM…
What, exactly, is between you and them?
@ Bobby G.
And just exactly why is this a “NEED TO KNOW” question. I have my reasons, as you have your reasons. I’m not asking you what troubles you…
I don’t need to know anything about you; I’m just trying to ascertain what your initial point is. You seem to be implying that the NRA is somehow behaving like the federal law enforcement agencies mentioned in the article. I don’t see any parallels or similarities between the two. You then go on to declare your area of residence and proclaim that no federal agency has attempted to confiscate your personal firearms. Once again, your point or points escape me. You may think that they are self evident but I assure you they are not. Now you want to get surly because I ask you to clarify the point you are trying, unsuccessfully, to make. If you have a point, stop trying to be cryptic and make it. The only thing that troubles me is the activities of the federal agencies described in the article.
@ Bobby G.
Sometime before Christmas of 2014, some Committee for some Extreme Far Right Organization tweeted me a questionnaire and one of the sponsors was the NRA, the NAGR of Virginia and some others. Asking me personal information about myself, how much I Earn, how many guns do I have, what kind are the, do I have a FLL and so on. Aren’t these the same questions the NRA claim that some Federal Government Agencies are asking. If I not going to answer the Government questions. Why should I answer their’s. It’s None of there business. And I told them so. Then they started hassling me be e-mail. I had to put a “spam alert” on them just to get the to stop…
A point emerges. Thank you. I suspect that whoever made such an inappropriate request for that sensitive information from you was not being honest about their identity or intentions. I am active in the 2A community and have never once received such a request from any of the organizations that you named or any other organization for that matter. If I did, I would simply not respond. That being said, I think that there is a huge difference between a private organization attempting to solicit information for whatever reason, and federal law enforcement agencies covertly gathering information from law abiding citizens. When law enforcement agencies engage in these covert activities it is no longer “between you and them”. You have been taken out of the equation. Law enforcement agencies only gather intelligence about people they intend to take action against. If this doesn’t worry you, it should.
…and its own political agenda is…..? And why should we be worried about “getting in it’s way” (whatever that means)? Sometimes you guys post single-sentence statements that merely pose a sideways question. Say what you mean so that we don’t have to guess what your point is.
The post I just put up was directed at Secundius’ reply to Old&Grump a few posts ago. The program had skipped ahead for some reason.
@ Smitty 550.
I’ve getting that lately myself over the last few weeks, Post/Comment Jumping’s. I thought the new reg’s. involving the internet might have something to do with it…
they can’t be hacked if they keep their database offline. no need to put it on the net. Many companies collect customer data but will not put it on the net. It’s for internal use only.
they, meaning the NRA