Consumer Information

ATF Open Letter on the Redesign of ‘Stabilizing Braces’

Picture shows SIG Sauer's ad for the pistol-stabilizing device

The BATFE issued an open letter on January 16, 2015, which could affect many shooters who have purchased long-barrel handguns with “stabilizing braces.”

The letter, signed by Max M. Kingery, acting chief of the Firearms Technology Criminal Branch in the Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division, says in part, “Any person who intends to use a handgun stabilizing brace as a shoulder stock on a pistol (having a rifled barrel under 16 inches in length or a smooth bore firearm with a barrel under 18 inches in length) must first file an ATF Form 1 and pay the applicable tax because the resulting firearm will be subject to all provisions of the NFA.”

Picture shows SIG Sauer's ad for the pistol-stabilizing device
SIG Sauer’s marketing reminds us the product is supposed to be strapped around the user’s forearm to aid in shooting the AR-15 pistol better.

In CTD Suzanne’s May 6, 2014 Shooter’s Log post, “SIG’s SB15 Legal Pistol Stabilizing Device,” she noted, “The ATF went on record saying the SB15 and SB47 pistol-stabilizing device classifies as a ‘forearm brace’ and since intentionally designed to aid in shooting the AR-15 pistol one-handed, putting the device on your pistol and shouldering it does not constitute turning your pistol into an SBR… Since the ATF classifies firearms strictly based on its ‘physical design characteristics,’ using the device against your shoulder does not make the pistol illegal. The ATF and [Alex] Bosco want you to know, however, that shouldering the pistol with the use of the SB15 or SB47 is not the manufacturer’s intended purpose and therefore constitutes ‘improper’ use of the product.”

Now the ATF has “clarified” the use of such braces. The Jan. 16 letter says in its entirety:

The Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division (FATD), Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has received inquiries from the public concerning the proper use of devices recently marketed as “stabilizing braces.” These devices are described as “a shooter’s aid that is designed to improve the single-handed shooting performance of buffer tube equipped pistols.” The device claims to enhance accuracy and reduce felt recoil when using an AR-style pistol. 

These items are intended to improve accuracy by using the operator’s forearm to provide stable support for the AR-type pistol. ATF has previously determined that attaching the brace to a firearm does not alter the classification of the firearm or subject the firearm to National Firearms Act (NFA) control. However, this classification is based upon the use of the device as designed. When the device is redesigned for use as a shoulder stock on a handgun with a rifled barrel under 16 inches in length, the firearm is properly classified as a firearm under the NFA. 

The NFA, 26 USCS § 5845, defines “firearm,” in relevant part, as “a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length” and “a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.” That section defines both “rifle” and “shotgun” as “a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder….” (Emphasis added). 

Pursuant to the plain language of the statute, ATF and its predecessor agency have long held that a pistol with a barrel less than 16 inches in length and an attached shoulder stock is a NFA “firearm.” For example, inRevenue Ruling 61-45, Luger and Mauser pistols “having a barrel of less than 16 inches in length with an attachable shoulder stock affixed” were each classified as a “short barrel rifle…within the purview of the National Firearms Act.”   

In classifying the originally submitted design, ATF considered the objective design of the item as well as the stated purpose of the item. In submitting this device for classification, the designer noted that 

The intent of the buffer tube forearm brace is to facilitate one handed firing of the AR15 pistol for those with limited strength or mobility due to a handicap. It also performs the function of sufficiently padding the buffer tube in order to reduce bruising to the forearm while firing with one hand. Sliding and securing the brace onto one’s forearm and latching the Velcro straps, distributes the weight of the weapon evenly and assures a snug fit. Therefore, it is no longer necessary to dangerously “muscle” this large pistol during the one-handed aiming process, and recoil is dispersed significantly, resulting in more accurate shooting without compromising safety or comfort. 

In the classification letter of November 26, 2012, ATF noted that a “shooter would insert his or her forearm into the device while gripping the pistol’s handgrip-then tighten the Velcro straps for additional support and retention. Thus configured, the device provides the shooter with additional support of a firearm while it is still held and operated with one hand.” When strapped to the wrist and used as designed, it is clear the device does not allow the firearm to be fired from the shoulder. Therefore, ATF concluded that, pursuant to the information provided, “the device is not designed or intended to fire a weapon from the shoulder.” In making the classification, ATF determined that the objective design characteristics of the stabilizing brace supported the stated intent. 

ATF hereby confirms that if used as designed—to assist shooters in stabilizing a handgun while shooting with a single hand—the device is not considered a shoulder stock and therefore may be attached to a handgun without making a NFA firearm. However, ATF has received numerous inquiries regarding alternate uses for this device, including use as a shoulder stock. Because the NFA defines both rifle and shotgun to include any “weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder,” any person who redesigns a stabilizing brace for use as a shoulder stock makes a NFA firearm when attached to a pistol with a rifled barrel under 16 inches in length or a handgun with a smooth bore under 18 inches in length. 

The GCA does not define the term “redesign” and therefore ATF applies the common meaning. “Redesign” is defined as “to alter the appearance or function of.” See e.g. Webster’s II New College Dictionary, Third Ed. (2005). This is not a novel interpretation. For example ATF has previously advised that an individual possesses a destructive device when possessing anti-personnel ammunition with an otherwise unregulated 37/38mm flare launcher. See ATF Ruling 95-3. Further, ATF has advised that even use of an unregulated flare and flare launcher as a weapon results in the making of a NFA weapon. Similarly, ATF has advised that, although otherwise unregulated, the use of certain nail guns as weapons may result in classification as an ‘any other weapon.’” 

The pistol stabilizing brace was neither “designed” nor approved to be used as a shoulder stock, and therefore use as a shoulder stock constitutes a “redesign” of the device because a possessor has changed the very function of the item. Any individual letters stating otherwise are contrary to the plain language of the NFA, misapply Federal law, and are hereby revoked. 

Any person who intends to use a handgun stabilizing brace as a shoulder stock on a pistol (having a rifled barrel under 16 inches in length or a smooth bore firearm with a barrel under 18 inches in length) must first file an ATF Form 1 and pay the applicable tax because the resulting firearm will be subject to all provisions of the NFA. 

If you have any questions about the issues addressed in this letter, you may contact the Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division at fire_tech@atf.gov or by phone at (304) 616-4300. 

Max M. Kingery
Acting Chief
Firearms Technology Criminal Branch
Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division

 

[The original story above was updated on January 22 to include the following statement from SIG Sauer. — Woody]

 

On January 21, SIG Sauer, Inc., issued the following statement about ATF’s open letter regarding the SB15 and SBX pistol stabilizing braces.

“As reaffirmed in an Open Letter by ATF’s Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division dated January 16, 2015, the Pistol Stabilizing Brace (SB15 and SBX) is legal to own, legal to purchase, and legal to install on a pistol. SIG Sauer believes that the Pistol Stabilizing Brace improves the single-handed shooting performance of buffer-tube-equipped pistols, and offers the product both as an accessory and pre-installed on a number of pistols.

“The [ATF] Open Letter goes further to rescind a previous private letter regarding the ‘intent’ of the user of the pistol stabilizing brace. In the letter of January 16, 2015, ATF opines that a person’s actual use of the product as a shoulder stock can change the legal classification of the product. However, the Open Letter explicitly states: “ATF hereby confirms that if used as designed—to assist shooters in stabilizing a handgun while shooting with a single hand—the device is not considered a shoulder stock and therefore may be attached to a handgun without making a NFA firearm.”

“We question ATF’s reversal in position that the classification of the brace may be altered by its use. We are reviewing the legal precedents and justification for this position, and will address our concerns with ATF in the near future.

“We will vigorously defend the classification of all of our products and our consumers’ right to use them in accordance with the law. If we find that the open-letter opinion is outside the scope of the law, we will seek further review.”

[The original story was updated on January 22 to include the following statement from SB Tactical. SB Tactical LLC developed and manufacturers the Stabilizing Brace for the AR-15 and AK-47 weapons platforms, the SB15 and SB47, respectively.— Woody]

From Alex Bosco, founder, CEO and inventor of the SB Tactical Stabilizing Brace:

“The Stabilizing Brace was conceptualized to assist a disabled war veteran in shooting the AR pistol the way that it was intended; safely and accurately. The finalized design is for people with limited mobility due to a handicap or the lack of strength to fire AR pistols in compliance with the Gun Control Act.

“Thousands of individuals have been physically empowered by the Stabilizing Brace to better control and safely handle shooting a pistol, including law enforcement officers, border patrol agents and veterans.

“The ATF has been inconsistent in its approach to this accessory. As the inventor of the Stabilizing Brace, the product has never been ‘designed or redesigned, made or remade, or intended to be fired from the shoulder.’ The latest opinion issued prohibits people from freely using a legal product, restricting how shooters position the pistol, and is contrary to the intent and statutory language enacted by the U.S. Congress.

“SB Tactical continues to consult with industry leaders and other critical stakeholders on next steps in this process.”

Do you own a pistol with a stabilizing brace? Will this change your use of the gun? Tell us how in the comment section.

The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt!'s blog, The Shooter's Log, is to provide information—not opinions—to our customers and the shooting community. We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. The information provided here does not represent the views of Cheaper Than Dirt!

Comments (51)

  1. Dear ATF,
    Please define “shouldering”. If my cheek rests upon it, and my forearm is also against it, then it couldn’t only be classified as being upon my shoulder, could it?
    Also, please define “shoulder”. Is it my collar bone, my rotator cuff, my upper armpit area, or a combination of the three??

  2. So, I can put the buffer tube itself to my shoulder and I’m ok, but if there’s a piece of flappy rubber attached to it touching my shoulder, I could get a prison term?!?
    What if I put the brace on my leg and use my c#%k to pull the trigger? That’s also not using it for its intended purpose, but I’m not shouldering the brace either…is it still illegal?
    What if I pinch a KAK brace between my a## cheeks and reach around to pull the trigger? I think I should submit these questions to ATF, because I need clarification on exactly how to use my AR pistol in a legal manner.

  3. Look … it’s a brace. Use it like one. Why would you need to use it otherwise (in public)? In a panic situation, all sorts of things can go wrong.

    Mount a laser on it and/or a 45 degree offset iron sight and it’s all good. I’m 63 and not particularly strong any more … one of these would be a lot of weight without the brace, but with the right tools along the barrel, it might make an interesting, and controllable, home defense tool, well-suited to hip firing (low retention position).

  4. Could someone please tell me what the difference is between a SIG BRACE and a pistol or a SBR with just a buffer tube.People shoot pistols and rifles with just buffer tubes from their shoulder all the time,and nobody says nothing.They have been doing it that way for years.unfortunately what I did with my PAP M92 was purchase a 5.5inch muzzle brake or barrel extension and spot welded it on until this RULE IS OVERTURNED!!! THANK YOU Bob M.

  5. In paraphrasing the ATF comments about allowing the wrist brace bar, padding, and Velcro straps to aid a shooter’s comfort ,stability and accuracy for a handgun- a point to ponder comes up. Why, then is not an adjustable stock for an AR allowed in all state for the same reasoning? Is a smaller framed person entitled to the same level of stability, accuracy, and comfort afforded bigger persons? Being pigeon-holed to a fixed stock
    potentially creating a handicap and a danger to the smaller person?

  6. This is totally the wrong argument. The mere existence of the NFA is an INFRINGEMENT on the 2nd Amendment. If George Washington and the boys were here to ask, I’m certain they would say, “It’s none of the federal government’s dang business what length your rifle barrel is. We said, “shall not be infringed.” Enough of this squabbling over a piece of plastic. The conversation should be about repealing the NFA in its entirety.

    1. Agreed.

      If gay marriage is a Constitutional right then so is firearms possession and every law that infringes the 2nd Amendment should be invalid.

    2. What you think the Constitution says is completely irrelevant. The only opinions that matter are the 5 or more Supreme Court justices who sign a majority opinion saying what the Constitution says. I suggest you read the actual “Heller” opinion closely. Even the arch conservative Scalia did not believe the 2A was an unlimited right, and expressed that there were a number of limits on gun ownership and possession that would be Constitutional. For example, he felt restrictions on carrying weapons in public were reasonable, and not a violation of the 2A.

  7. If you declare you have no intent to missuse the brace does that make it legal? If you never fire the weapon then what is your “legal intent” ? When TSHTF who will collect the tax? Lets get real, this is all about scaring people into paying ( and thus regestering them) a stupid outdated tax that was intended to keep “some” guns out of the hands of criminals…….hows that working?
    Go Sig…keep supporting your customers…they will keep supporting you!

    1. One important correction: it was intended to keep some weapons out of the hands of GOOD people, not criminals. Gun control has never been about limiting violence or crime at all, because criminals, by definition, disregard certain laws. Gun control only limits the freedom of the good people, thats it. Its all about systematically increasing govt CONTROL over our lives – tyranny.

  8. I think its all about generating revenue, as the letter states if you want to shoulder fire it with the brace then apply for the tax stamp. All that happened was they knew everyone would buy an AR pistol and get a brace, get used to shoulder firing it and when they changed their opinion, more people would apply for the tax stamp. Just think about how many people had gotten these pistols and cant sell them now, and are like screw it ill just get a tax stamp.

    1. Of course it’s all about generating revenue. It(no matter what “it” is)is ALWAYS about money. And I think you are absolutely right about the second part as well. However, if anybody that has one or more of these brace equipped pistols actually paid for the tax stamp because of an ATF opinion letter, they deserve to lose the money they spent!

  9. VERY WELL SAID untill you got the the hunting /sniper rifle comparision??????????, i wondered why SGN would do that article in the first place ?they know the atf reads and monitors that mag and anyone who sells or advertises on it ,that along with you tube vids of throwing it to shoulder as well as the stupid bump fire vids palming method ! DOES NOT HELP OUR CAUSE ! .I know freedom of speech etc. but these people tend to forget who we are fighting for these rights with and just how far they will go and how people go to jail in America now over videos that do no harm to anyone but self express ones view on a religion he or she does not agree with ,another right we are supposed to have here which has been infringed upon numerous times by this admin and his croonies..Like the removable mag cap over 10 ban that is in the house as we type and this is being discussed on this very same forum . Stop giving them ammo to use against us like pointing out the very false fact our hunting rifles are actually ie. SNIPER RIFLES- untrue in many ways as a former cav scout sniper . Maybe 40 yrs ago they were used for such by the military but 100% obsolete on todays battefield and in the hands of some rebel or jihadists only if at all .NOT EVEN close to modern military sniper rifle at all.Statements like that DO NOT HELP US JMHO. THINK people THINK before you type,post vids ,make articles in monitored mags, make untrue statementswith out facts, etc. And vote pro gun, not he sure talks good its the IN THING TO DO i cant say it enough times .

  10. Thats what this admin wants more crimes with the evil black gun and short barreled black gun ,it will do exactly that why i did not buy that or the slide fire sytstem ,i think it is next .First time either is used in a mass shooting ,lone wolf attack ,bank robberies, gang membersw ith short barreled high power hi cap rifles ,just what the dems want .Much more ammo to use against us .I will never forget pelosi’s statement .And i quote ,mrs and mrs America GIVE UP YOUR GUNS that shows me one goal nd one goal only this kind of way to destabilize the market and make it easier for thugs to get them in straw sales as people now dump them in haste .So they do just that something stupid gives them more to use against our rights.

  11. So this whole ATF letter debate made me go out and try “bump firing” my Ruger Mini-14 ranch rifle this afternoon. After studying the mechanics of how it worked, I did it WITHOUT any external or added on device or even using the belt loop trick! All I did was hold the stock slightly off my shoulder, had my trigger finger hooked solidly on the trigger, with my palm and non-trigger fingers extended straight (so as not to grip the stock), and applied forward pressure on the stock with my left hand. I was able to easily perform and control semi auto, burst, and full auto fire. It all depended on the applied forward pressure. Now in all fairness, I did have some feed and fire issues, so I would not call it reliable, but I did it as a demonstration of what is possible. According to the ATF’s logic, I redesigned my firearm, even though I changed NOTHING on it.

    I will be trying it again with a buddies AR-15 which should fire and feed on burst and full auto better than the Mini-14.

  12. EXACTLY what they want ,turn normal law abiding citizens into felons overnight ,the way they work now would not doubt they are hoping some crook uses aN ar/ak/pistol with this brace installed in a crime or shooting spree or bank robbery ,then they have reason to ban this and the slidefire stocks which are next you can bet on that no way they let those remain legal under this democratic admin ,its next on the list. Bad as i wanted 1 of both i foresaw this coming and held onto my money ,he is not done and will not be done till the day he leaves whitehouse to take our 2nd amendment rights ,those making vids firing these with the brace on the shoulder are giving them ammo to use against us i can see pelosi now with a bunch of you tube vids showing how the American public has nO need or should not have tHese FIREARMS AND PARTS in possesion at all with out a stamp and registrATION, IF AT ALL.

  13. Modern-day home windows are an easy way to increase the look of the house and save money on the power costs as well. It’s too involved to go into here, but the short version is you simply need to get the Common UNIX Printing System (CUPS) and CUPS-PDF driver. – If window contractors were to replace windows only during the spring or summer, wouldn’t they go out of business in the remaining seasons.

  14. By the ATFs new logic, if you shoulder the pistol buffer tube, you also have redesigned it and are committing a crime if you don’t register it as an SBR. Likewise, if you shoulder ANY pistol the same applies. You have redesigned it and are a newly minted felon. Enjoy

  15. A handgun is designed to shoot with one hand. So why aren’t they making a Big Deal about holding it in both hands. You are using it in a way it wasn’t designed. Such bureaucratic bs as always. Welcome to the Democratic US.

  16. I think the majority of the brace owners really buy this for their pistol because it’s a loophole to have a shorter rifle. Same goes to the slide fire. You guys find loopholes to piss off the nfa rules and now get upset when they fire back? Just accept that fact that both sides are acting like slime balls.

    1. Slime ball implies doing something unethical. How is buying a weapon accessory than has two obvious uses and that was oked as a product by the government (who really shouldn’t have a say in how we arm ourselves) then using it in the manner that best works for the person in anyway unethical? It isn’t. Maybe the accessory designer was being cute with the rues when they designed this thing BUT Uncle Sam said OK. Thousands of law abiding citizens, who play by the rules, no matter how stupid and meaningless they are, then bought the product oked by Uncle Sam. They are now being told that they can’t use their own property Uncle Sam said they could buy for no reason other than petty spite. How does that make the consumer a slime ball?

      Btw what this does do is create a bunch of weapons that nobody who would use them only as a brace wants. This means the value of these weapons will drop. As the value drops they will become more accessible to criminals because criminals use cheap guns. The criminals will now use these things as short barreled rifles. So thank you ATF you have once again arranged for the criminal element to be better armed. It’s like another distribution of wealth: we are now financing the arms buildup of the lower classes.

    2. I totally disagree with the OP’s “slimeball” comment and I hate the NFA. I could understand an argument for licensing machine guns, though the way they do it now is utter nonsense and holds no lessons for a better functioning way of licensing. Suppressors and SBR’s make no sense to me. I don’t get why the ATF would rather having me own a “hunting rifle” (i.e. sniper rifle) which is only suitable for purely offensive use while making it illegal for me to own a SBR with a suppressor which makes sense for home defense. The GCA isn’t still around because it works well or make sense, it’s because no agency is going to give up a regulation that is, essentially it’s Raison d’être.

      But your slippery slope logic is a farce. It is HIGHLY unlikely that the price of an AR pistol will drop so low that a criminal could buy them cheap enough to buy them and them dump them after using it in a crime and in general, criminals avoid hard to conceal weapons. Many times these people are felons so it kind of attracts attention. Slippery slope arguments are seductively appealing rhetorically but they are logical fallacies.

      I think the reversal is stupid because regulations shouldn’t be treated so mercurially. Though it probably shouldn’t have been allowed in the first place. Think if banking or environmental regulations worked that way. It’s not good for business and while I understand the ATF (which is really a bunch of people who don’t really like guns or know much about them, or so my friend who works there tells me) is trying to follow the laws but it doesn’t seem to me to pose a unique enough of a problem to warrant such a sudden reversal so long after the product has been distributed and creates more questions and problems than it answers.

  17. Sounds link they are attempting to apply similar logic as they do to the oil can suppressors, which are actually cleaning fluid reclamation devices. So long as there is not a hole in the oilcan it is a reclamation device. If it has a hole it is a suppressor as evidenced that it was fired through. However, an important fact is that once the oil can has a hole in it, it has a physical change and would be a redesign

    In this case simple possession of a rifle with an unmodified SB15 is legal possession. If seen firing it shouldered it is demonstration of using the firearm as an NFA and therefore illegal without an NFA Stamp. However, there was no physical change in the design of the firearm as there is oil can example. So the question revolves around the meaning of the term “redesign.”

    The letter logics that the possession of a 37/38 mm flare gun with possession of antipersonnel ammo has been ruled a constitution an NFA. However, that is physical possession of material items. That would be in alignment with the logic of the oilcan with a hole in it. Fundamentally, the logic of the 37/38 mm flare gun example is that two parts make a whole.

    The important point here is that NFA law is about initial registration of a NFA classified item, transport across state lines of a classified item, possession of a classified item, and transfer of possession of a classified item. NFA law does not provide enforcement authority on the use of an item. Extension of NFA law interpretation outside the scope of possession of an item through the definition of what the term “redesign” is a significant expansion on the NFA law.

    The question becomes, can BATF after approving item as equipped at the point of sale as a pistol and having publicly made two administrative” decisions in writing to the public clarifying the item it is a pistol change its official mind? Can a new BATF “Acting Chief” change the agencies official mind by publishing an official letter? Can the new “Acting Chief” extend the NFA law through administrative decision beyond registration, possession, and transfer of a physical item to include how an item is used once an official BATF decision was made that the item is not a classified NFA item?

    I would not want to be the court case on this one but I am not sure a US District Attorney would even want to prosecute this should a BATF agent file a case.

    1. So. Where do we go from here?
      What will the feds come up with next week?
      Seems that government wants to express they’re
      power over the individual by making new laws. Didn’t the English try
      that a while back?
      Big T

  18. Yes i have one. No, it will not stop me from shouldering it. Whether on my arm or shoulder, the gun DOES NOT CHANGE, and it is not “redesigned”

  19. This is ridiculous. Obama/sotoreo ( or whoever his name is) is using his regime to bully those who disagree with his commie/islamo fascist un-American thinking. They are slowly setting us all up for mass confiscation. I say if they want mine come and get them, but be prepared for the consequences of your illegal actions. cause your getting 10,000 rounds first

  20. Get all you can, while you can, any way you can. If you die before the apocalypse , then your friends and family will enjoy your guns and you will be most fortunate.

  21. Some one need to remind these clowns that the Americans 2nd amendment shall not be infringed…..especially with people like this!!!

    A prim example of this would be if one buys a car, do they not have the right to customize it? You don’t see the government telling people not to put rims or what ever you desire and regulator that. thousands of people die from wrecks per year….yet the government can’t make you drive a certain way.
    The only reason why guns are so controversial is because the government fears them so they can’t hord all the power. This is an exact reason why the founding fathers all decided to support the frededom of the individual in the constitution and has a God given right to defend your self if nessary, and why the pilgrims came is to seek freedom from the oppression of England (for the over all concept of freedom)….. Why the hell should we go back to being opressed just in a new land?

  22. All of this so called rules Does Not matter. Just use it anyway. Bad guys do it all the time. Just be sure you fire it where there is no snitches around.
    Typical of ATF to change their wording of the rules and regulations. to please the anti-gun turds.

  23. Everybody-

    Just “Remain Calm” and hold on to your braces, firearms, etc… If and when the government is coming to confiscate your gear…

    That’s when all the s**t will hit the fan…

    During the meantime… Enjoy your firearms and shooting sports to the fullest!!

  24. You wont have it to fire when this admin is done ,they will have it confiscated and martial law declared like after Katrina when they left law abiding americans unarmed and at the mercy of roaming gangs of looters , rapist ,and thug killers . if not they will just come get you ,ya think the atf does not know who bought ar/ak pistols with arm braces lol?They know exactly who has them ,bet on that . or when the boston marathon attack , they went door to door like para miltary troops and took their weapons ,all of them. If you think diff your crazy .Keep up with current events my man.

  25. When the SHTF do you really think I care about whether or not I redesigned the intent when I’m firing the weapon from the shoulder?
    Compliance with some non-constitutional administrative ruling will be the least of my concerns, rather focusing on hitting the bastards center of mass, keeping fire discipline, along with immediate threat vectors!

  26. Well the shotgun news article on how you can use these as a shoulder fire weapon did not help us ,thanx sgn, last thing i buy from that mag . A nd the slide fire stocks will be next all you guys spent 300.00 will have a stock that is ilegal to own soon and if put on a rifle will get you fed time .I will watch them all cry soon and smh, why i did not jump on either wagon much as i wanted too only a moron could not see the atf and obamas admin doing this when the word got put putting articles in magazine telling people how tp use a part completely diff from its intended purpose is asking for atf attention,thanx sgn ,and the rest of the gun mags ran those articles .The so called ar /ak pistols will be next after that ,barrels are too short they will be banned soon bet on it .only gonna take 1 bad apple to do something stupid which they will no more ar /ak pistols as they call them. They are the next to go on the list .And it will not stop there , he has no russian arms ,ammo, nothing allowed in states now he dont care about the Ukraine ,this was his ticket to banning imports of weapons and ammo, has nothing to do with Ukraine if you believe that seek therapy quickly.

  27. Well that atf statement was just stupid beyond belief! If I use my car as a weapon and run thru a crowd of people, I don’t need the nitwit gov’t telling me that I used my car in an illegal manner! Stupid is as stupid does and it reigns supreme from the white house on down to his nitwir minions. What a complete waste of resources!

  28. God, this is the kind of ridiculous nit-picking idiocy that has KILLED aviation in the United States. If you haven’t written ALL of your congresscritters yet and asked them to SHUT DOWN THE ATF, then please do. Just think of the amount of YOUR money they are squandering to nit-pick the difference between a forearm support and a shoulder support. Just back off to the 30,000 foot level and think about the lunacy of this. A shoulder support makes a handgun illegal? Is this still the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave, or are you letting this country slide right into the swamp through your inaction. Write your senators. Write your congressmen. This has GOT TO STOP.

  29. Anyone could see this coming while dips like CTD’S Suzannes shooters log kept writing bunk to push the issue and back them into a wall. Sometimes its best to keep your mouth shut, and stop beating your gums for the sake of hearing yourself speak, hero.

  30. yea like the m1 carbine and garand lend lease program which obama has put an end to as well, this one of obamas guys in the atf looking for everything he can to look to ban in the US, wake up people he is not going to stop till he is gone and if another dem like Hillary the queen gets in say goodbye to your gun rights .slide fire stocks will be next to come up in controversy with the dems obama has planted into the atf as his secret atf agents to be called unsafe ,ilegal to use or own and banned. Look for these braces to be all out banned soon and the slide fire stocks as well. why i did not jump on either wagon i saw this coming you have to remember just a yr and a 1/2 ago how bad it really got for a while to get any ammo ,guns ,parts , reloading supplies and he is not done yet.bet on it.If you are dumb enough to vote democrat again you should not have a gun .period cause only a crazy person would at this time .

    1. Well color ME crazy!! I think you have had too much of “the cool-aid”If by now , after 6 years of 8 he hasn’t shut down your ability to obtain additional firearms then it is NOT going to happen. Lay off the cool-aid. Your crazy rant make the remainder of gun owners sound crazy and unreasonable..

    2. You must be a another brainwashed democrat thinks this guy is good for america ,guess you did not see where he tried to sneak in to his trade bill the ban of any ammo whatso ever ,thank god a repulican read it before it made it to vote or we would have a ban on all ammo from coming into states and what about his 1 billion plus rounds of hollow point ammo the obama admin bought up to keep off the streets, when do police and military use hollow point hunting ammo ?guess he did not try that either ,what rock you living under dude? Yes you are crazy if you think he is done and how blind are you to say he has not done 1 thing to keep guns out of american law abiding citizens hands. He has made attempt after attempt and will keep trying , mr and mrs america ,give up your guns !!!!guess you missed pelosi and biden saying that under your rock you live under .Keep thinking that that what he wants you to get complacent it cant happen,yes it can and he is going to try everything before he is out god help us they elect another democrat to white house we will be paRIS in every us city.only the criminals will have guns 100% ilegal in france to have any fireaRM, but they had full auto ak74’s.With grenades .But still they got them in and killed lots of people .Yes i will agree you are crazy or very misinformed or just another dem refuses to believe you put the biggest threat to american rights and national security ever in office.CONGRATs ON THAT and thanx .When they ban your slide fire stock next maybe then you will wake up.I see ar &ak pistols being banned completly soon.barrels are just too short.

  31. That is a great tip particularly to those fresh to the blogosphere. Short but very accurate info… Thanks for sharing this one. A must read post!

  32. I was a journalist most of my life and I have absolutely no clue what this says. I read pretty damn good. It is, at best, a regulation which comes from the office of a person or persons who have nothing better to do than to figure out how to attempt to justify their jobs. Nothing more.
    All this crazy rhetoric about this and that and you can do this and you cant to that seems to have nothing at all to do with a firearm per se. I firmly believe some astute firearm manufacturer will wind up taking this issue to court and having a Judge laugh the Fed completely out of the court room screaming, “Dont you ever do anything to bring such a ridiculous case into my court ever again. And you go back to your bosses and tell them I said that!”. Yes I have heard those very words in Federal Court. Good luck with that one there boys. The only problem is that when someone screws up who works for the Fed, instead of being immediately terminated, they just get a promotion. That is our problem with government today.

  33. I think it’s just another way for atf to get money .. Why is it ok to fire from the shoulder if u pay them money?.. Makes no sense to me. I have an m92 with sb47. I have no fear of getting in trouble if I was to put it to my shoulder. And I’m not saying out right that I plan on it . But it’s like this.. How is anyone gonna know. ?.. I shoot out doors on private land. Is the atf gonna hide in the weeds and bust me?? I think not .. It’s kinda like 922r compliance for riffles. I know that’s hoops manufactures jump through to import. But after u get the gun home is the atf really gonna disassemble all ur guns and count parts? I don’t think so . It’s all a money racket

  34. I think I will hold one of my full sized revolvers against my shoulder and fire off a full cylinder while making and posting a video of the event, just to prove how INSANELY RIDICULOUS the ATF is. Never mind the fact that per The Constitution, only The Legislative Branch can create laws, not an unelected alphabet bureaucracy.

    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, & Explosives should be the name of a convenience store, not a “regulatory agency.”

  35. I saw this coming and exactly why i did not jump on this bandwagon ,i knew this was coming long ago when i saw the sgn article about it ,next is the stock for ar’s and ak’s lets you go full auto with this stock installed ,it is next on list to be banned as will this be banned completely before long ,DO NOT BUY INTO THIS , if the barrel is under 18 inches shoulder firing it is an ilegal weapon to the atf . Soon as they find a good reason they will be banned to put onto a so called pistol ar or ak period.JMHO. and it is happening .

    1. this regulation has been on the books for years.if you put the rifle stock on a tc contender with a 14″ or 10 “bbl it is illegal.same with the rifle bbl and pistol grip. these ar style pistols are causing numerous regulatory problems as they become more popular. the whole steel core 223 ammo fiasco was brought on by these pistols as well. all of this seems a lot to do about nothing but as people continue to look for loop holes and dance on the edge of a known regulation it puts heat on everyone. you tube will be the death of us all! go ahead and shoulder the darn gun if you must but keep it to yourself. what atf doesnt know wont hurt them or you.

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